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Ep 34. Mita Desai, CEO Young Trustees Movement: What is the role of charity Governance? (and what Boards must do to get it right!)
102 Plays2 years ago
“It’s not the role of a Trustee to know all the answers; it’s asking great questions. And if we only have a homogeneous group of people on (a) Board, it lowers your ability to ask really great questions from different perspectives, which lowers our ability to manage risk.”
Mita Desai is the Chief Executive of the Young Trustees Movement.
The Young Trustees Movement aims to double the number of young trustees, so that charity boards can better navigate uncertainty, better reflect the interests of their communities and future-proof their decision making.
Currently only 3% of charity Trustees in the UK are under the age of 30.
Mita talks about the disruptive campaign her organisation is running to change perspectives on who a Trustee can be. They are also raising awareness on the role of governance and what charity governance is really there to do.
We talk about how organisations can create the culture for diverse perspectives to thrive, not just on their Boards but across their workforces. Mita shares practical advice on what Boards can do to ensure that representation is not tokenistic and that different voices are genuinely welcomed and valued.
Mita shares her own experiences of being a young Trustee and how the maxim ‘Never let fear get in the way of the choices you want to make’ has led her to where she is today.
Recorded July 2022.
Guest Biography
Mita Desai currently serves as CEO of the Young Trustees Movement.
Mita has over 10 years of experience in the Youth Sector and youth voice advocacy. She has been part of a variety of campaigns including Votes at 16, A Curriculum for Life, and the Alternative Vote referendum.
Mita holds a BA in Social Policy, has served as Chair of the British Youth Council and sat on the Advisory Board for Step Up To Serve.
Links
https://youngtrusteesmovement.org
This episode is kindly sponsored by EdenTree, a charity owned investment manager and leader in responsible and sustainable investing.
Mita Desai is the Chief Executive of the Young Trustees Movement.
The Young Trustees Movement aims to double the number of young trustees, so that charity boards can better navigate uncertainty, better reflect the interests of their communities and future-proof their decision making.
Currently only 3% of charity Trustees in the UK are under the age of 30.
Mita talks about the disruptive campaign her organisation is running to change perspectives on who a Trustee can be. They are also raising awareness on the role of governance and what charity governance is really there to do.
We talk about how organisations can create the culture for diverse perspectives to thrive, not just on their Boards but across their workforces. Mita shares practical advice on what Boards can do to ensure that representation is not tokenistic and that different voices are genuinely welcomed and valued.
Mita shares her own experiences of being a young Trustee and how the maxim ‘Never let fear get in the way of the choices you want to make’ has led her to where she is today.
Recorded July 2022.
Guest Biography
Mita Desai currently serves as CEO of the Young Trustees Movement.
Mita has over 10 years of experience in the Youth Sector and youth voice advocacy. She has been part of a variety of campaigns including Votes at 16, A Curriculum for Life, and the Alternative Vote referendum.
Mita holds a BA in Social Policy, has served as Chair of the British Youth Council and sat on the Advisory Board for Step Up To Serve.
Links
https://youngtrusteesmovement.org
This episode is kindly sponsored by EdenTree, a charity owned investment manager and leader in responsible and sustainable investing.
Recommended
Transcript
Trustee Role & Diverse Perspectives
00:00:00
Speaker
It's not the role of a trustee to know all the answers. It's asking great questions. And if we only have a homogenous group of people on board, it lowers your ability to ask really great questions from different perspectives, which lowers our ability to manage risk, which is why it's so vital actually to ensure that young people are on the board.
Charity CEO Podcast Introduction
00:00:30
Speaker
Welcome to season four of the Charity CEO podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders, bringing you inspirational and meaningful conversations with leaders who are driving change in the nonprofit space. I'm truly delighted and humbled that the show has been named in the Charity Times top 10 charity podcasts for 2022.
Young Trustees Movement Mission
00:00:51
Speaker
Thank you all for that incredible endorsement. I'm Divya O'Connor, and here's the show.
00:00:57
Speaker
Mita Desai is the Chief Executive of the Young Trustees Movement. The Young Trustees Movement aims to double the number of young trustees so that charity boards can better navigate uncertainty, better reflect the interests of their communities, and future-proof their decision-making. Currently, only 3% of charity trustees in the UK are under the age of 30. Mita talks about the disruptive campaign her organisation is running
00:01:21
Speaker
to change perspectives on who a trustee can be. They are also raising awareness on the role of governance and what charity governance is really there to do. We talk about how organisations can create the culture for diverse perspectives to thrive. Mita shares practical advice on what boards can do to ensure that representation is not tokenistic and that different voices are genuinely welcomed and valued.
00:01:44
Speaker
Mita shares her own experiences of being a young trustee and how the maxim, never let fear get in the way of the choices you want to make, has led her to where she is today.
Episode Sponsorship & Young Trustees
00:01:54
Speaker
This episode is kindly sponsored by Eden Tree, a charity-owned investment manager and leader in responsible and sustainable investing. Here is Leonora Ray, a member of their charity team and champion of the Young Trustees movement. Eden Tree is proud to advocate the importance of young trustees and the power of diversity of thought
00:02:13
Speaker
Now's the time for charities to embrace responsible investing. So if your board is struggling with outdated views or groupthink, do consider recruiting a young trustee today. We hope you enjoy the episode.
Icebreaker & Personal Insights from Mita Desai
00:02:33
Speaker
Hi, Lydia, really excited to be here. Well, we always start the show with five icebreaker questions, and if you're ready, we can kick off. Yeah, let's kick off. Question one, what was your first job? So my first job was working in my gap year with a charity called Envision.
00:02:49
Speaker
Very nice. Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower? Empathy. Question three, tell us something about yourself that normally surprises people. It was probably that I've been to the conservative party conference several times, but then that surprises people less when I tell them it was for reporting about things that were happening there. How exciting. Question four, if you could wave a magic wand and change one thing in the world right now, what would that be?
00:03:18
Speaker
It would obviously be having young trustees on boards, but that's actually closely tied with votes at 16 with political education because they genuinely think that would change so much in such a meaningful and deep way and allow people to claim back power. Wow, I absolutely agree with you. And our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask
Representation & Governance Impact
00:03:46
Speaker
them?
00:03:46
Speaker
It would have to be Nelson Mandela. I read his incredible book, Along Walked Freedom, and it talked a lot about the hard situations that he was in, the trade-offs that he had to make, and I'd love to deep dive more into what it was like to make those trade-offs when you didn't fully know what was ahead of you.
00:04:05
Speaker
and how he kind of like navigated that uncertainty. Yes, so many questions. I'd love to ask Nelson Mandela, such an inspiring individual. So Mita, you are the CEO of the Young Trustees Movement and a very inspiring individual yourself. And I know the name is pretty indicative of the nature of your work, but tell us about your organization and its mission. Sure. The Young Trustees Movement aims to double the number of young trustees.
00:04:31
Speaker
so that charity boards can better navigate uncertainty, reflect the interests of their communities, and future-proof decision-making. And we're made up of incredible people across the UK, from current trustees, aspiring young trustees, current board members, and employers who are all working together to create this systematic change to enable better, more innovative governance. And when we say young trustees, we mean those under the age of 30. Is that not right?
00:05:00
Speaker
Yeah, so for sake of a definition, we say under 30, which a lot of people are like, whoa, I'm young. But really, what we say is it's more about intergenerational representation. So if all boards had young trustees, we'd say we're missing older perspective, as well as like, if all boards had like 30 year olds, there's a huge demographic that is missing there between 18 and 25 demographic. So it's very much about intergenerational representation. And I also want to say that when we use the term
00:05:27
Speaker
young trustee, it's not as if like, young people have like these magical superpowers on boards and just influence things like social media and up and coming trends. They're actually a whole trustee in the full sense. And the only reason why we use that term is to reflect a lack of representation. That's such an important
Stereotypes & Board Diversity Strategies
00:05:45
Speaker
point. And I know that actually less than 3% of charity trustees are under the age of 30. Tell us about some of the things or some of the practical things that your organisation is doing to change this.
00:05:58
Speaker
Yeah, so there is a couple of things. The first thing we're doing is leading a disruptive campaign to change the idea of who a trustee can be. When we think of a trustee, loads of people, even like experienced people in the sector say to me, even people who are in their 40s and 50s say, I never thought I could be a trustee. I thought that was something that you could do when you retire. So really raising awareness of what governance is, why people are so needed from different walks of life and why the community needs to be reflected in there.
00:06:27
Speaker
And just raising awareness of that firstly is really helpful to get people centered around what is the point of governance and how can we mobilize to enable better governance. The second thing that we do is we provide training for young trustees to have the skills to thrive on board, as well as training the charity board to create the conditions on the board to enable people to thrive because
00:06:54
Speaker
Representation in an area without the culture to thrive just leads to assimilation, which is not helpful for anyone and does not enable a diversity of perspectives to really be seen and enable the board to benefit from. And then the final thing that we do is we work across the sector with lots of other organizations and infrastructure organizations to work together to create change because we can't do this alone.
Governance Issues & Power Dynamics
00:07:21
Speaker
Yes, I'd like to come back to talking about diversity of perspectives, but on the governance point, with a number of boards that I have encountered, often the suggestion to bring a young person on board is met with the challenge that the young person may not have the skills or experience, particularly to take on the legal and fiduciary duties of serving as a trustee. Now, personally, I view that sort of thinking as fairly outdated, but I'm interested to know what your response is to somebody who presents that view or challenge.
00:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. And it's a really interesting question because I love these questions because usually when people ask these questions, they rarely are against young trustees. It's more just breaking down the systems one and systems two. And that comes from the book. I don't know whether you've read thinking fast, thinking slow. And the author actually says in the book, if anyone is going to approach diversity and inclusion, they need to use their systems to mindset. So what do I mean by this? What does the author mean by this?
00:08:18
Speaker
It means systems one mindset is when you touch a hot tap and you say, oh, that's a hot tap and you move your hand away. Systems two mindset is more the way you would approach a complex maths equation where you break down the things that is the current situation and then come up with solutions. So let's look at this, the example that you mentioned of will a young person have enough legal knowledge in order to function as a board member, right? That implies that
00:08:44
Speaker
a board member needs to come with all the skills in order to be a trustee, which is wild, right? Because that's not the role of a trustee. A role of the trustee is to ask the right questions. And if we come with a sense that all the trustees will have all the skills to do the role effectively, it leads to this false situation, which is really harmful where people are trying to pretend they know what they're doing, which is not helpful for accountability. So the next question is, well, how
00:09:11
Speaker
do we ensure that the role of a trustee board is to ensure, you know, to have that level of accountability, they should be trained in the basics of being a trustee.
Accountability & Inclusion Strategies
00:09:21
Speaker
So if you don't know the general like legal rules around something, the role of a trustee is to ask the organization to seek legal counsel around that area. So it's not the role of a trustee to know all the answers, it's asking great questions. And if we only have a homogenous
00:09:37
Speaker
group of people on board, it lowers your ability to ask really great questions from different perspectives, which lowers our ability to manage risk, which is why it's so vital actually, to ensure that young people are on the board for the question that you asked. And just to give credit to the author of the book, I believe it is Daniel Kim. So yes, so the point about the value of diversity here with respect to management of risks in organisations is so vital.
00:10:06
Speaker
to consider. And also, as you mentioned there, when we think about the broader construct of charity board diversity, actually what we do encounter is the intersectionality of several different issues. And a particular bugbear of mine is where we see boards approach diversity as just a tick box exercise. And it's very typical to see a board where there's 12 trustees and 11 are white, and there's one essentially token ethnic minority individual.
00:10:35
Speaker
How can boards prevent tokenistic recruitment of trustees? And what do you think needs to happen to really create true inclusion? You're so
Innovative Board Practices
00:10:44
Speaker
right. Like whenever a board approaches a situation where the oh my goodness, we need to have more diversity and representation because it looks really bad from a PR perspective, it always fails. And worse than that, it leads to harmful impacts on the person who comes into that space. And I've heard some
00:11:03
Speaker
real horror stories that break my heart when that happens. And it's actually much better for the board, if they're looking to do this work really well, to take stock of where they are and say, okay, where are our areas that are red, which we urgently need to work on before we invite someone to this space? Because sometimes boards need to do the work first.
00:11:23
Speaker
where are our areas that are orange, which are like, you know what, we can invite someone into the space. We're not perfect, but we can do this as we go along. It's not going to be like the end of the world. And where are areas that are green so that we should continue to hold on to and keep going on. We actually have something called a conversation toolkit to enable people to identify what are those red, orange and green areas. And when it's done like that, it leads to incredible innovation in the boardroom. So things like
00:11:52
Speaker
And it also helps break down that systems one and two mindset I mentioned earlier. So people will say stuff like, before we invite people into this boardroom, like this space is a really intimidating space. One person might say, I'm not sure young people could thrive in this space. And it's, yes, Anne, what shall we do to change that? So that would be a red area. So encouraging a culture where people can say, I have no idea what's happening here. Could somebody explain what's happening? Create a much more innovative space.
Sector-wide Governance Improvements
00:12:18
Speaker
And we've seen that when this work is
00:12:20
Speaker
happened and people have addressed their red areas first, there are people on the board who are raving about the impacts of having young people on the board when in reality young people have been there for like two months. They've said three words and it's actually the rest of the board that has benefited from being like actually I've never understood what's happened like how to read a finance paper or what is happening when we talk about finance. That's why I never ask any questions for the last three years and then it enables much better governance after that.
00:12:49
Speaker
I'd love to delve a little deeper into what you've just said there, Mita, particularly around this issue of power imbalances in the context of charity boards. So I am a charity trustee myself. I sit on the board of Book Aid International and I'm always very conscious of the collective accountability that a board has.
00:13:08
Speaker
And that when we talk about things like power, privilege, inclusion, diversity, we need to be really intentional about who is in the room and how we are, as you say, creating those safe spaces and actually enabling everyone's voices to be heard. I know you spoke recently on this very topic at the Joseph Roundtree Foundation's conference, New Frontiers in Funding, Philanthropy and Investment.
00:13:33
Speaker
Can you share with us some of your views on again, practical action that we can all take to redistribute power and transform the sector? Yes. And my goodness, don't you do your research? Absolutely. So yeah, what practical action can people take that health check that I mentioned identifying red, orange and green areas firstly, every board should be doing that.
00:13:56
Speaker
There are a couple of things that we see boards do really well, which is completely free from the boards that we know. And the first thing is just asking themselves the question, like, what am I thinking and feeling in this moment? Because diversity and inclusion is not a neutral area. It is going to provoke emotion in you. A lot of trustees are in this space because they really care.
00:14:17
Speaker
And when they realize that they might be doing something harmful, which we all do, I do every day, it makes you feel shame and embarrassment. And this very much links to the work that Broné Brown does around vulnerability and shame, which I think is so closely linked to this work. So asking themselves, what am I thinking and feeling? Second thing, using your systems to mindset. Third thing, asking yourself and getting them aboard to ask themselves, am I willing to do things differently?
00:14:44
Speaker
because so often people are holding on to the status quo. And in times of crisis, people stick to what they know more. So what we're seeing now in this situation where so many boards are in crisis, so many boards are having to do things differently, they're saying, we can't change because we need to address these really important, urgent things first. And it's like, well, because we're in so much crisis, we need these diversity of perspectives to rebuild and navigate uncertainty in these ways. So just through these three steps,
00:15:15
Speaker
You don't need resource. You don't need tons of funding. Just having those three mindsets leads to slow progressive change. And I would take that any day over like tokenistic recruitment. So the work that you can do is super practical. It just requires people in positions of power to say, yes, I'm committed to this. And what more would you like to see from the sector more broadly in order to tackle the issue of board diversity? Oh, great question.
00:15:43
Speaker
It's an interesting question as well, because when you see things that have gone really wrong in the sector and some of the biggest sector problems, it always comes down to governance, like a really boring governance issue that has such a big impact. So we often see so much in the sector of like things like charity bullying, and it's gotten to a really bad stage. And you think how did it get to such a bad stage at this point, and it comes down to like not having a good enough whistle blowing policy or the board not being
00:16:11
Speaker
like, connected to the voices that are there. So I think what the whole sector can do is really come back to the point of like, what is the role of governance? And how can we strengthen governance throughout everything we do? And that really is a big systems question, because it comes down to things like, who has power? How can we ensure that power is connected to the people that we serve?
00:16:35
Speaker
So this work is very practical. This work is very systems changing and it's very big. And so I think what the whole sector can do right now is kind of reset with the question of what is the role of governance and how can we use it?
00:16:51
Speaker
in our organisations. Big picture in five years' time, but also really quick practical steps now, like whistle-blowing policies. Yes, I love the frame you've put around that, Mita, and I completely agree with you that people become trustees because they really care about a cause, and we all are just ordinary people trying to do our best, but actually having the right structures and policies and procedures in place in terms of governance and oversight and compliance with regulatory requirements and what the Charity Commission mandates,
00:17:21
Speaker
actually enables and helps trustees fulfil their roles in a holistic as well as important and meaningful ways. Right.
Embedding Diversity Principles
00:17:32
Speaker
Nail on the head there. And then when we think a bit more about principles of anti-racism, justice, equity, diversity and inclusion, can you tell us about how you've gone about embedding these principles within your own organisation at the Young Trustees Movement?
00:17:50
Speaker
Oh, yeah, I love that. I think it's a constant practice and a skill that we're growing as soon as we say we're the experts in this and we got this down and we like don't need to do any work. It always leads to like problematic stuff. And you can see people in the sector and organizations where you're like, oh my goodness, you're literally training social justice and yet your own organization. There is so much injustice there. So I think just starting from a place to know that we probably are always doing harm.
00:18:19
Speaker
Our values are an aspiration which we should always seek to aim to, but appreciate that we will get stuff wrong and be open to be challenged and be proactively thinking, how are we going to get stuff wrong? And I think it comes back to that stuff that I spoke about, that Brené Brown covers around like shame and vulnerability of sitting with that and always having our values at the center of everything we do. And I think at the Young Trustees movement, we created a culture
00:18:48
Speaker
where we can challenge each other and call each other out and in. And I think that that is what enables like equity, the foundation basis of equity.
00:18:57
Speaker
Yes, I think culture is so important and we've all heard Peter Drucker's famous line about culture eats strategy for breakfast and it is. I love that quote. It is absolutely true in my experience as a charity chief executive, you have to get the culture right first. And I'm curious as to from what you said there, there are some organisations that are actually in the social justice space and what they portray
00:19:22
Speaker
externally isn't quite how they align things internally. Why do you think that is? You know, I've asked myself that question a lot. I actually had somebody who is a trainer in social justice say to me that my dyslexia is not a disability and therefore it doesn't like count as making adjustments. And this person like trains in social justice, like a leader and speaks on panels, which is just wild.
00:19:51
Speaker
But more broadly, like why do people do this? I think the reason why this happens again, all of these people care. All of these people like are in this space, obviously not because of the money, but because they want to see change. I think it happens when you get so burnt out and you just feel like you're doing so much and then something happens and you're just not in the mental space to come back to like, what are my values?
00:20:16
Speaker
how am I open to being challenged and using my system to mindset to ensure that I'm always taking the actions that worked towards that. I think that that's probably why this stuff happens. And when people try to make trade offs to say, like, we need to get here, and therefore, it's okay to step over this line to get there.
00:20:39
Speaker
I don't know. To be honest, I've asked myself that question a lot. I think it comes back down again to governance because you can't have this all on you to do it. You need to have systems of accountability around you.
00:20:54
Speaker
to ensure that you are being challenged. And if you don't have those systems of accountability there, it's not going to work. That's absolutely true. And I think as leaders, we all have a role to play in terms of focusing on our values and the wellbeing of our people. It needs to come front and centre as well as the mission. And I think one of the more practical aspects as well, you know, coming back to talking about boards and board diversity is the representation.
00:21:21
Speaker
perspective. So to what extent are charity boards really representative of the communities and the individuals they are seeking to serve? And actually, if we had more representation on boards, that could potentially change some of these issues and challenges on a more systemic level that we are seeing. Yeah, absolutely. Representation is only the first part, though. Like Ella said, like if you have these really harmful structures where
00:21:48
Speaker
the burden of labor is on the individuals who are coming to that space, then they will get burnt out and leave and it can have more harmful consequences. It also needs to ensure that it is embedded throughout the organization and in other ways and ensuring that like, there is representation, but the burden of labor to create systemic change and reform is not on those people.
Youth Advisory Boards
00:22:12
Speaker
An example of this is with the Black Lives Matter movement, a lot of boards are quite rightly saying, we need more Black people on boards. What would be completely inappropriate is if all the non-Black people turned to the Black people in the room to say, how can we fix institutional racism against Black people? Obviously, that's not their job. And even though they probably have much better ideas than the people around the table,
00:22:34
Speaker
It requires a specialist in that area to come in and make that reform. Yes, I think there's so much to unpack there. We could have a whole other podcast on just that topic. But coming back to what you said about structure, I know that some organizations have youth advisory boards or youth panels that feed into the main board of trustees in order to bring in that younger sort of demographic or younger perspective. What do you think about that sort of structure for bringing in the voice of young people?
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah, we get asked this all the time and we see this play out in different ways all the time. So first of all, coming back to that question, starting with the idea that board is only one part of wider reform and structural change within these organizations to ensure that the voices of people that we serve are here. Once we do that, that leads to the people to the question of like a youth board and how that functions. And it comes down to having a really good brief
00:23:29
Speaker
around these areas. Again, boring detail, but how good is the brief for that youth board? What is the role of the brief of the youth board? Because if that brief is not well defined, again, it's going to fail. If you just ask really random questions, you're going to get random answers that are not so helpful. So is the role of that youth board to act as the voice of young people in that sector to gather and interpret operational things?
00:23:53
Speaker
cool, great, then have that is the voice of that to act as like a micro board to the actual board. Okay, well, if that happens, and then there are a couple of factors. Sorry, I also want to mention, if the role is to gather the insights and to have a representation of a demographic, then when that integrates with the board, it always needs to ensure that there is a relevant governance connection. So for instance, like what we see often is
00:24:19
Speaker
youth boards presenting to the board about like random things, which are really nice and insightful, but not relevant to say, budget cuts that are happening. Like if you're going to ask a youth board to get involved with the board, then it needs to be more like, okay, we need to make 20% cuts this year. What would you prioritize?
Mentoring & Inclusion Tips
00:24:38
Speaker
Those insights are going to be really helpful to trade off the board has to make. So the second thing is like, how does it relate if you have a governance related youth board and the overall board?
00:24:49
Speaker
It's important that it doesn't become a substitute for having young people on the board and also the young person on the board doesn't feel like they always have to be the voice of the young people. Those are two separate things. So a model that we've seen work really well is done by a church called The Mix where they have an older trustee and a young trustee partner and they go and visit the youth board to collect those insights.
00:25:12
Speaker
So it's seen as like a separate, which is really helpful for everyone, but it's not seen as the young person having to represent young people. And then the beauty of their diversity of perspectives is narrowed into that area of representation rather than what it should be, which is in like future proofing and income generation, etc, etc.
00:25:31
Speaker
Yes, I love that idea of sort of buddying up almost with a trustee and actually, as you said there, it doesn't necessarily just have to be for a young trustee, it could be for any new trustee in order to really onboard and integrate them into the organisation.
00:25:46
Speaker
And from that perspective, they meet her. That's a great tip. But do you have other tips for what trustee boards could do to really be intentional in terms of welcoming people, whether they're a younger demographic or they're different ethnicity, so that they actually feel included and that they have a seat at the table, that their voice is heard and that they feel that they actually deserve that space and don't have the burden of representing their entire community or identity?
00:26:15
Speaker
Yeah, just as you said there, like part of these things will create innovations for the whole board. So there's a couple of things that the board needs to do is first be really clear on what the role of a trustee is. A lot of boards aren't clear on that themselves. And just getting that brief really clear, and then communicating that to the young person that is on board as well. We have a free training that deep dive a little bit into this. So I would recommend them inviting the young trustee and the board to come along to that.
00:26:43
Speaker
And that enables the young person to see where their value is. Often young people come on the board and they'll be asking the same questions as an older person. How can I, with no experience, possibly share my opinions on what we should be funding in the next five years? So just sharing why their perspective and why their questions are really powerful. The next thing is proactively reviewing the accessibility of all of your systems and policies.
00:27:11
Speaker
So for instance, do you have an expense policy that requires you to expense upfront and then be reimbursed later? If you're a young person who can't afford train tickets, for instance, it's going to feel like an extra step and an embarrassing step to say, hey, I actually can't afford that 50 pound train ticket. And what can I do about that? That sounds like a small thing, but those small things really add up.
00:27:33
Speaker
And when we think about research that is done by Ecclesiastical, where it asks the question, why did you stop being a trustee to young people? 29% said meeting times were inconvenient. 23% said they felt like an outsider. And 22% felt like their input was no
Retaining Young Trustees
00:27:50
Speaker
longer valid. So doing this work is really important for retention as well, which also brings us to that question, that last statistic there on feeling like an outsider is getting the whole board to think about who should
00:28:02
Speaker
be in this room because if you have people in the room who feel like young people shouldn't be there or other people shouldn't be there, even if it's not said in those words, that is picked up in the culture. So really asking yourself the question, who belongs in this board? And then what kind of culture finally do we need to enable people to thrive? Which comes back to your quote, culture needs strategy for breakfast. That is also just all related to good governance. The other practical steps as well,
00:28:30
Speaker
that I'll mention is in the induction period is having a really good budding system by ensuring you have someone to go through the board papers and ask all of those stupid questions beforehand. Again, this is just good, good practice for everyone. Then also having board papers, just again, great governance. So not having board papers that are 80 pages long, but like really concise board papers. Again, what we see here is that like really important things get lost in the detail. Who actually reads 80 page board papers?
00:29:00
Speaker
not many people.
Mita Desai's Personal Journey & Leadership
00:29:01
Speaker
And then also doing like having a conversation with that young person set up to say, like, please, I think that's the most important thing is the relationship with the young person having someone external to the organization, like a mentor or
00:29:15
Speaker
outside of the organisation or a staff member that they can go to to share when they're feeling like they've had a really rough board meeting or they don't belong will enable that person to stay longer to have those uncomfortable conversations and be that advocate for that person. Meeta, I know that you are a young trustee yourself, so tell us more about your own personal story and what has your experience of being a trustee been and what have you learnt from it?
00:29:39
Speaker
I'm no longer a young person, but I will cling on to my youth in some ways. Yeah, my personal journey is I saw when I was in my second year.
00:29:48
Speaker
a role of a trustee to be part of the British Youth Council. And I honestly thought it was like a youth board because I thought no way would they trust a young person to manage like such an important role. So I applied for it in full confidence, gave a really great interview. And then when it got to the ADM, I was like, what, wait a minute, this is where is the actual board? No way would you trust me to be on the actual board. And I just had a throw of imposter syndrome.
00:30:15
Speaker
And then I said to myself, I've always had this thing where I was like, never let fear get in the way of the choices that you make. So then I went on the trustee board. And I went through this whole wave of imposter syndrome, which every young person or trustee talks about.
00:30:29
Speaker
And I think overcoming that was a big journey for me. And then I said again, never let fear get in the way of something that you do. So I decided to go to chair and then I got that. And I was honestly devastated when I got that position because I was like, no, I didn't actually want to do this. This is terrifying. I don't want to let down an organization I really care about. Again, big wave of imposter syndrome for me. And I think the whole process of finding my community of support, which is another thing that the Young Trustees Movement does and
00:30:58
Speaker
if people have found really helpful with just so powerful for me and talking to other young people and just seeing the transformative effect that it has on boards has just been
00:31:10
Speaker
Really powerful and I think is what gives me so much energy in this role and what makes it such a pleasure to be, do my role every day. I love that. So never let fear get in the way of what you want. I'm going to add to that, never let fear get in the way of progress as well. So you talked a little bit there about what inspires you in the role and tell us a bit more about your career journey and what really drives you personally. Oh, my career journey.
00:31:38
Speaker
I've never really had a vision of like, I want to be here in 10 years time. I've just always been driven by what excites me and where I want to see reform. And so that is what has really driven me and my values. I think that thing of just, again, never let fear get in the way of what you want to do. I've been terrified so many times every time I step into a role.
00:31:58
Speaker
And I think that that has driven a lot of where I've gone is just saying, never let's see her get in the way. Brilliant. I love that essentially following your values has led you to where you are today. And I'm curious to be looking back at your own leadership journey or path that has brought you to where you are today. What advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO? Or in other words, what is something you wish you had known beforehand?
Lessons & Closing Remarks
00:32:24
Speaker
I think it's helpful also to clarify that I've been CEO for a hot second, just because the journey that I've been on, I've been grateful to be incubated by the social change agency. And as the Young Trustees Movement has grown, like step into more of that role. And I think if I would have been a CEO of the Young Trustees Movement day one, without that extra support of knowing, like somebody has like, double checked everything and is not, we're not going to go into the abyss. I think that that gave me more confidence. And I think that that actually comes back to the
00:32:54
Speaker
day one, what would I tell myself? It would be there is always so much uncertainty. This comes back to like the skills you develop as a trustee. And it's being able to step into that uncertainty and being okay with the mess and the fact that you are always going to iterate and not get things right. But that's okay, because that's where learnings happen. I value so much the funding that is entrusted to the movement that I have always like hated when I've got it wrong or thought like, Oh, I could have done that better.
00:33:22
Speaker
and like the power of hindsight, right? And just like being like, you know, this work is messy and we're gonna like not get everything right first time and just being more comfortable with that and being like more kind to yourself when you're going through all of those things.
00:33:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. The work is messy, whether you're just starting out as a leader or you're an experienced leader. I think we all have challenges and have to deal with it as it comes. But the work is also truly rewarding and inspiring. And I certainly gain inspiration from my roles as I keep learning in them as well.
00:33:55
Speaker
So Mita, this has been such a powerful and insightful conversation. In closing now, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? I mean, what is one thing you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? Yeah, just thank you for doing this. Thank you for the podcast. It's always, it's so funny actually how I heard about this podcast.
00:34:13
Speaker
I was actually listening to your episode with Charlotte Hill, who by the way, I absolutely love is an absolute inspiration of mine. Shout out to you, Charlotte. Shout out to you, Charlotte. And then Leonora, who's one of our young trustees, messaged me to introduce me to you. And I thought that was so serendipitous that I happened on the same day. I absolutely love what you're doing. Thank you. Thank you for sharing all this wisdom because it is so great to hear and learn from other leaders. My one call to action to all of the listeners out there. Hello.
00:34:41
Speaker
is to join the movement, come to our free training because we can't do this work alone. It is so big, our mission, it's so practical and it's so achievable and we need you to be part of it. So please do join the movement, whoever you are. You said you want to share your website or some details so if anybody's listening they can get in touch. Yes, it's www.theinterestiesmovement.org and then you can go to our events section
00:35:05
Speaker
and join up to our next monthly champion training. Brilliant. And on that note then, thank you so much, Mita. Thank you for being a guest on the show. I have learned so much from this conversation from you and I've really enjoyed having you as a guest. Thanks so much, Divya.
00:35:21
Speaker
What a powerful conversation with Mita Desai, CEO of the Young Trustees Movement. I love her leadership philosophy of the need to be able to step into uncertainty and be okay with the mess, because it is in the mess that the learning takes place. And we can all do with being a little kinder to ourselves as we continually strive to learn, grow and create change.
00:35:43
Speaker
A correction to the author of the book on systems thinking that Mita mentioned during our conversation. The book Thinking Fast and Slow is by Daniel Kahneman. Thanks again to Eden Tree for sponsoring this episode. I hope you enjoyed this latest episode of the Charity CEO podcast. A show that thanks to you, our listeners, has repeatedly reached the number one spot in Apple's nonprofit podcast category.
00:36:07
Speaker
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00:36:26
Speaker
Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details, information on previous season episodes, and to submit ideas for future guests. In order to balance my personal and professional commitments, the show will now come to you once a month instead of fortnightly. But I assure you it will be worth the wait. Thank you for listening.