Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Ep 51. Eliza Reid, Former First Lady of Iceland and writer: Championing Gender Equality
566 Plays1 month ago
“Gender equality is a choice… working for greater gender equality is not a zero sum game, where you’re taking something from one group and giving it to another - it’s helping to level the playing field for everyone.”
Special guest, Eliza Reid, is a bestselling writer, public speaker, gender equality advocate, entrepreneur and former First Lady of Iceland. Iceland has topped the World Economic Forum’s gender equality rankings for 15 years, as the country with the smallest gender gap. In her first book, Secrets of the Sprakkar: Iceland’s Extraordinary Women and How They are Changing the World, Eliza examines what it is about Iceland and Icelandic society that makes it the most gender-equal country in the world.
We talk about Eliza’s own extraordinary journey from growing up on a farm outside of Ottawa in Canada, to becoming the First Lady of Iceland, and what she has learnt along the way. It is a fascinating account, showcasing Eliza’s determination to go beyond the traditional expectations of her role as First Lady, make the most of unexpected opportunities, and to use her unique voice and privilege to advocate for gender equality and social justice.
Recorded December 2024.
Guest Biography
Eliza Reid is a bestselling writer, public speaker, gender equality advocate, co-founder of the acclaimed Iceland Writers Retreat and former First Lady of Iceland. She was born and raised in Canada but has lived in Iceland for over twenty years. Eliza’s first book, Secrets of the Sprakkar: Iceland’s Extraordinary Women and How They Are Changing the World, was an instant bestseller in Canada and Iceland, a New York Times Book Review Editors’ Pick, and translated into numerous languages. Her first novel, an Iceland-set mystery called Death of a Diplomat (Death on the Island in the U.S.), will be published in spring 2025. From 2016 to 2024, Eliza served in the unofficial role of First Lady, while her husband was President of Iceland, during which time she served as patron of numerous organisations, and was named a United Nations Special Ambassador for Tourism and the Sustainable Development Goals. Passionate about inclusion, belonging, and equality, she wielded her influence through poignant op-eds, a compelling TEDx talk, and dozens of keynote addresses to audiences around the world, including presidents and royalty. Eliza has degrees from the University of Toronto (Trinity College) and Oxford University (St. Antony’s College). She lives in the outskirts of Reykjavík with her husband and four children.
Links https://elizareid.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Why is gender equality a conscious choice?
00:00:00
Speaker
Gender equality is a choice. It's not something that is going to happen of its own accord. It's something that we have to consciously work on. And as we have seen globally in the last several years, it's very easy to have a backlash, to face a backlash and potentially to become complacent and think that things are are good enough when in fact they're not good enough in some places. So I think that's one point here is that we're continuing in Iceland to strive to do better and to be vigilant. and to recognize that working for greater gender equality is not a zero sum game where you're taking something from one group and giving it to another. It's helping to level the playing field for everyone. And when it does that, you build a better society for everyone. So the more gender equal a society is, the longer living its population is, or people of all genders, the more peaceful it is, the more peaceful its population is, the higher its GDP is.
What is the new season of the Charity CEO podcast about?
00:01:04
Speaker
Welcome to an exciting new season of the Charity CEO podcast, where we bring you the stories and insights of remarkable leaders who are changing the world for the better. We talk to the movers and shakers who are driving positive social change, inspiring you to think big, act boldly, and make a difference. A huge shout out to our incredible global community of listeners spanning over 55 countries. Your thoughtful comments and feedback continue to fuel this growing movement, and we couldn't do it without you.
00:01:31
Speaker
To all of you who pour your hearts and souls into making the world a better place, especially those of you in the charity and nonprofit sectors, thank you for the tireless passion you bring to your work. This podcast is for you. I'm Divya O'Connor, and here's the show.
00:01:47
Speaker
Kicking off season six, I'm delighted to welcome special guest, Eliza Reed. Eliza is a bestselling writer, public speaker, gender equality advocate, entrepreneur, and former first lady of Iceland. Iceland has topped the World Economic Forum's gender equality rankings for 15 years as the country with the smallest gender gap. In her first book, Secrets of the Sprakar, Iceland's extraordinary women and how they are changing the world.
00:02:12
Speaker
Eliza examines what it is about Iceland and Icelandic society that makes it the most gender-equal country in the world.
How did Eliza Reed's journey lead her to Iceland?
00:02:18
Speaker
We talk about Eliza's own extraordinary journey from growing up on a farm outside of Ottawa and Canada to becoming the first lady of Iceland, and what she has learned along the way.
00:02:28
Speaker
It is a fascinating account showcasing Eliza's determination to go beyond the traditional expectations of her role as First Lady, make the most of unexpected opportunities, and to use her unique voice and privilege to advocate for gender equality and social justice. Enjoy the conversation.
00:02:47
Speaker
Hi, Eliza. Welcome to the Charity CEO podcast. It's a real honor to have you on the show. Well, thank you very much for inviting me to be here. so Eliza, this show always starts with a few icebreaker questions, and I have five for you. You're ready. We can get going. I'm ready. Let's go. Question one. As a child, what did you want to be when you grew up?
00:03:08
Speaker
When I was quite young, I wanted to be a flight attendant because I thought then I would get to travel the world. And then after that, I wanted to be a lawyer because there was a television program in Canada where I grew up called Street Legal, which was sort of a Canadian low budget LA law. And I thought the legal profession looked very, very exotic. But I gave up that dream after I started university and discovered that I would have to get my degree and then go to law school. And that seemed like a lot.
00:03:35
Speaker
I've never heard the legal profession described as exotic before, so that's brilliant. But you maybe not have seen this television program, it was great. Indeed, i'm sure.
What cultural adjustments did Eliza face in Iceland?
00:03:47
Speaker
Question two, what is something that surprised you about Iceland or the Icelandic people?
00:03:52
Speaker
Yes, I've lived in Iceland for just over 20 years. And I guess one thing about the language is that there isn't really a word for please. So if someone moves to Iceland from, say, the UK where I had lived before that and not to have to use the word please takes a little bit of adjustment, really. h And question three, what is one thing that you miss about Canada?
00:04:12
Speaker
I will say this, assuming the podcast here is among friends because it's not maybe a very classy answer, but I miss this sort of instant. It's called Kraft Dinner. It's like Kraft macaroni and cheese that you can make from a box that is very much student food. It's not healthy. And apparently Canadians eat more of it than any other country. You can't buy it in Iceland. I did not know that.
00:04:34
Speaker
Maybe not the answer you were expecting from the icebreaker, but I'm going to keep it real. No, I love it. The mac and cheese from Canada. Exactly, exactly. And you know, I have to say then, that sort of indicates my privilege that it's not very difficult living in Iceland, and that's what I miss about living in Canada.
What books is Eliza Reed currently reading?
00:04:51
Speaker
And question for Liza, as you are a writer, I feel that I must ask, what book are you currently reading?
00:04:57
Speaker
Oh my goodness. I don't know if people ever give answers that they think that they are supposed to give, but I will tell you, I'm reading two books right now. One is by the author David Mitchell, which now I'm forgetting the title, but it's a humorous encounter of the early kings and queens of England, which I liked ah studying about when I was a lot. And then I am listening on an audio book to one of the memoirs by Benazir Bhutto, who is the former prime minister of Pakistan.
00:05:22
Speaker
you know, a couple different things. But I like nonfiction, as you can hear. Very interesting. And our final icebreaker question, Eliza, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be?
Who would Eliza want to interview from her ancestry?
00:05:36
Speaker
And what one question would you like to ask them? Oh, my goodness.
00:05:40
Speaker
That is a difficult question. I'm not going to give you a specific name, but I was just discussing this with a friend the other day and saying, I would like to almost go back in time and interview or speak with one of my own direct ancestors from, say, the 14th century or one of these sheep farmer in the north of Scotland where some of my ancestors come from and say, look what happens in life. Many generations down the line and have a kind of a discussion or say, oh, we have the same ears or or something like that. I think that would be very interesting.
00:06:10
Speaker
Absolutely. Reverse crystal ball. Yeah.
How did Eliza's personal journey lead to journalism in Iceland?
00:06:13
Speaker
Eliza, you've had such a diverse career from journalism to becoming the first lady of Iceland. Tell us about your personal journey and background and how your upbringing shaped your passion for gender equality.
00:06:26
Speaker
Yes, I have a an unusual background, I suppose you could say. I mean, I guess we all have different stories, but my life has kind of taken different turns than I expected it would perhaps when I was young. I grew up mostly on what I call a hobby farm in Canada, which means that we lived in the countryside and we had sheep and chickens and ducks, but it was more of a hobby for my parents. It wasn't their primary source of income.
00:06:48
Speaker
I grew up in a rural life and then I studied at the University of Toronto International Relations where I then abandoned my dream of becoming a lawyer because of all the school it would entail. And then I moved to the UK to do a master's degree in modern history at Oxford University. And I mostly did that because of course it was a wonderful opportunity to study at Oxford, but because I also wanted the chance to live in a different country and continue my studies a bit.
00:07:12
Speaker
And at Oxford, we were at a college that was very international, and there was people from all over the world, including one person from Iceland, which I didn't know anything really about other than that. It was presumably cold and distant. And this man from Iceland, who, spoiler alert, I ended up marrying, I found quite intriguing. We were both rowing for the college because we thought that's the kind of thing that you're meant to do when you're at Oxford. I attended a kind of raffle fundraiser one evening that he was also attending. And the raffle fundraiser involved men on the team, including him, having his little styrofoam caps that they had marked with their own names. And then we could all buy tickets that we marked with our names and put them in different caps. And then the guys would draw out one name and have to take the person on a date. And I remember thinking, well, this is my carpe diem moment in life. you know This is an interesting guy, and I should get to know him better. And so I bought 10 tickets. He could buy them packs of five. And I put almost all of them in his cap.
00:08:09
Speaker
And I thought, I don't want to put them all in because then I'd be some kind of a stalker. But if I put most of them in, I've leaned the odds in my favor. And that's what happened. He drew my name and we went out for this nice Italian dinner the next night. And that was, you know, over 25 years ago. And as that became a couple, we found love, we moved in together. We moved up to Iceland in 2003, just over 20 years ago.
What was Eliza's path to becoming Iceland's First Lady?
00:08:32
Speaker
And he was a professor of history at the university, an academic. We had four children in just under six years. And I started work as a journalist in Iceland, writing all kinds of things, a lot travel-related, writing in the English language in Iceland, as well as editing Iceland. There's Insight magazine. And you know learning the language, I founded a writer's retreat, et cetera. And in 2016, the Panama Papers scandal broke, which was this scandal that involved various world leaders and offshore tax havens.
00:09:01
Speaker
And to make a very long story short, our prime minister in Iceland, we have a prime minister and a president, our prime minister at the time was implicated in that scandal, ended up having to resign. And my husband, who was writing a book on the history of the presidents of Iceland, was a pundit that was called on television to analyze the crisis. And because of that time,
00:09:22
Speaker
Or two months later, we had a presidential election. The stars kind of aligned and people saw this man on television who knew a lot about the very rare occasions when there are these big crises and people just literally started calling her house and saying, you should run for president. And so within the span of a about seven weeks, he decided to run for president of Iceland, the first time he'd ever sought elected office in his life and served as president then for eight years. So it's a bit of ah almost like a Cinderella story, really.
00:09:52
Speaker
But I mean a wonderful honor and opportunity to serve my adopted homeland. And what was that like being suddenly thrust into the spotlight following a campaign of just seven weeks? It was so rapid and it was such a difference that you almost didn't have time to think about it. I do remember at the beginning, you know I think I mentioned we had four children in six years. So our children at the time were two, four, six and eight. And I was working freelance and I remember we thought, all right, we're going to do this and we need to do a campaign poster as you do with this smiling, happy family on the front. And somebody had called some stylist who called my house and said to me, and I think I was probably,
00:10:29
Speaker
changing and happy at the time and trying to look at another kid to not push the other one and all of these things that you're when you're multitasking with young children and the stylist said to me what's your personal style. And i remember thinking i bought shoes i lost my shoes five years ago and my maternity trousers still fit very well because that's that's my life right now.
00:10:50
Speaker
And I think I shocked the stylist a little bit and thinking, okay, we're going to have to give extra time on her. So it was huge. And then we went from that to sort of literally googling how to curtsy because we're about to go to Denmark and meet the Queen of Denmark on a state visit. So it was so fast and so rapid that you run on instinct really, which is I guess a good
How does Eliza advocate for gender equality as First Lady?
00:11:08
Speaker
thing. But you asked me at the beginning about my passion for gender equality. And and I think one of the things that I noticed from the outset as well is that all of a sudden you're kind of thrust onto the national stage. I absolutely was not famous, whatever that means, in Iceland before, but I had been in the media sometimes for doing writing, writing stories, running this writer's retreat, e etc. But all of a sudden, now I was famous because I was somebody's wife.
00:11:34
Speaker
And that became my defining characteristic as a person. And I always thought, of course, I'm so proud to be Gudniese's wife, but I wouldn't say that's my main characteristic as a human being. And so ah thus began a long exploration and of what it means to serve in these really unofficial, undefined roles of spouses of heads of state where there is no handbook, but there's also a lot of expectations.
00:11:59
Speaker
Eliza, tell us more about how you use the role of First Lady as a platform to really advocate for gender equality and social justice and to help create meaningful change. I knew from the outset that I wanted to sort of grasp hold of this unexpected opportunity because I obviously had never ever thought that it would happen. But I was excited about it and nervous about it, probably in in equal measure. And you know that it's not going to last forever. So you really have to kind of hit the ground running. I'm such a rule follower that I'll read the manual for a kettle before I use it for the first time. So to jump into a role that that I had to serve in with absolutely no guidelines was quite intimidating. But then I also began to think, you know if there is a rulebook for how to serve in this role, then I can't be breaking any rules because there aren't any in the first place.
00:12:47
Speaker
To me, it was really I guess a guiding light was to kind of confound maybe outdated expectations that we have about female spouses of male heads of state and how they are supposed to look and behave and act. and For me, it was important then to do things on my own, not just to be seen as some kind of human accessory to my husband who applauded and awed all his brilliant speeches and words, but actually delivered my own speeches. and had my own opinions. And also in Iceland, we talk about gender equality. And to me, I think, broadly speaking, we just need to hear women's voices more, not less. But in Iceland, this woman's voice also speaks with an accent because, of course, I moved to the country when I was in my late 20s. I've learned the language, but I speak with an accent. I make many embarrassing mistakes. And to me, that was important, especially here in Iceland, to say that
00:13:39
Speaker
Just because I speak the language imperfectly doesn't mean I don't have something important to say and doesn't mean that I am limited to talk about, quote unquote, immigrant issues when I'm doing things. and And hopefully I was able to act as a bit of a role model as well for promoting a little bit more diversity within the country here. And I just did my best to speak up as much as I could within the confines of a kind of non-political role.
00:14:04
Speaker
and use my voice and it was really an incredible opportunity that I enjoyed very
What is Iceland's history with gender equality?
00:14:10
Speaker
much. We know that for 15 years now Iceland has ranked number one in the World Economic Forum's Global Gender Gap Report as the country with the smallest gender gap. Can you share with us the history and context of women's rights in Iceland that has led to your adopted country being the world's most gender equal country?
00:14:29
Speaker
Yes, we're very proud of that in Iceland that we've topped the list for 15 years. But we also always say the word butt afterwards because just because you're top of the list doesn't mean that you have achieved it. And gender equality is a choice. It's not something that is going to happen of its own accord. It's something that we have to consciously work on. And as we have seen globally in the last several years, it's very easy to have a backlash to to face a backlash and potentially to become complacent and think that things are are good enough when in fact they're not good enough in some places. So I think that's one point here is that we're continuing in Iceland to strive to do better and to be vigilant and to recognize that working for greater gender equality is not a zero sum game where you're taking something from one group and giving it to another. It's helping to level the playing field for everyone.
00:15:21
Speaker
And when it does that, you build a better society for everyone. So the more gender equal a society is, the longer living its population is, or people of all genders. The more peaceful it is, the more peaceful its population is, the higher its GDP is. In Iceland, we have a number of examples that we can use. In 1975, this is maybe the best example, 90% of the country's women took a day off to protest ongoing wage inequalities in the country.
00:15:49
Speaker
And what happens in a country when 90% of your women don't work for a day? Nothing happens because everything shuts down. So they said hot dogs sold out in the shops because the men didn't think they could cook anything but hot dogs. But you know there was no schools or banks or flights weren't running because the flight attendants were on strike. And it was a really galvanizing moment for the country.
00:16:11
Speaker
because it reminded us all that we all have a role to play in this and that there's a way to kind of unite and get support from each other. There's a small detail with the story that initially it was the idea came about from a more kind of radical, well,
00:16:26
Speaker
I don't think we'd call it radical today, but at the time, sometimes considered radical, kind of left-wing feminist movement, and they wanted to have a strike for the day and talk about this. And women maybe who were more on the right wing of the political spectrum said, I don't support the idea of strikes, I don't think we should strike. And someone said, well, why don't we just call it a day off then?
00:16:45
Speaker
And this was this great compromise. And the women said, oh, I could take a day off. Sure. And it's just a wonderful way of showing that people didn't lose sight of the bigger picture, despite maybe some smaller disagreements on on certain areas. But after that strike in 1980, we elected the world's first democratically elected female head of state. So we had a president who served, a female president who served for 16 years.
00:17:08
Speaker
We also had a women's list in our party list system in Parliament, which dramatically increased the number of women in Parliament. And now we have almost parity within our Parliament. And so all of these steps have taken place. And then later on, there's policy changes such as government paid parental leave, heavily sponsored child care. The parental leave is offered to both parents in two-parent households. And it's kind of use it or lose it. So you can't have one parent who takes the entire fear of that And then all of that kind of builds on itself. So now we're in the situation, for example, here in Iceland. We have a new president, of course, after my husband chose not to run again. She is a woman. The top three candidates in our presidential election were women who collectively got 75 percent of the vote.
00:17:54
Speaker
We just had a parliamentary election recently and the leaders of the three parties who were working to form a government potentially are all women as well. So we see women in strong situations in Iceland now. And again, that's just a result of concerted effort and awareness that it's not going to happen on its own. And a belief, I think, that it's something that is good for everyone in this society.
00:18:18
Speaker
Eliza, you are absolutely right.
What are the global challenges of gender equality?
00:18:20
Speaker
Gender equality is a choice and the backlash and the rollback we have seen globally or on women's rights in the past few years is extremely worrying. I recently attended the Reykjavik Global Forum for Women Leaders with you and had the privilege of meeting the new female president of Iceland. I'm going to try and pronounce her name. Hello, Thomas Dottir. Is that right? Very good. Very good. Yeah.
00:18:44
Speaker
Excellent. And so obviously at the Reykjavik Global Forum, they spoke of four strategic goals for advancing global gender equality, the Reykjavik action items, equal pay, equal representation, equal parental leave, and ending gender-based violence. You already talked to equal parental leave and it's in back there, but tell us a bit more about these Reykjavik action items and what's being done in each of these areas.
00:19:09
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, as you said, so equal pay, we also have legislation that companies of a certain size have to prove that they're offering equal pay for equal work, even though, of course, it's a concept that is enshrined before. But this one is the world's first that actually requires companies to get a certification to prove it. And, you know, that kind of builds on itself. It's a bit like people saying, are you going to the party? Are you going to the party? And no one wants to commit to it until they know that other people are doing it.
00:19:34
Speaker
And now people who are seeking jobs will look maybe and say, did they get the certification enough? And you want to be first to be able to do those things, not catching up at the end. Equal representation, I also spoke to a little bit in terms of the representation in politics. We could do better in the private sector when it comes to female CEOs, for example. And then the last one, of course, ending gender-based violence.
00:19:58
Speaker
I think stands as the biggest example or the biggest impediment to us in Iceland achieving equality right now, because you can't achieve equality when there is so much gender-based violence. We have taken strides in that, and I think, societally speaking, part of those have to do with Broadening the definition of what constitutes gender-based violence to recognize that that is not always physical violence. Doing a lot of education with young people about concepts around consent and things like that. Providing more support to survivors of gender-based violence who want to make claims to the police.
00:20:30
Speaker
But it's an area that obviously we in Iceland have challenges with just like everywhere else. I think we know that gender-based violence transcends issues of race, class, socioeconomic background. you know We really discover it everywhere. And so a lot of that has to do with both education, but also reinforcements in the legal system and reducing stigma so that people feel like they can be talking about it a lot more. And that's really important.
00:20:57
Speaker
Absolutely. At the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, we recently conducted primary research with over 1100 women and entrepreneurs across low and middle income countries, about 80 odd countries. And 67% of the women entrepreneurs responded that they have experienced or personally witnessed online gender-based violence, 14% on a daily basis.
00:21:21
Speaker
And almost 10% of them say that this is having a significant impact on their business and their livelihood. So this is still a very huge problem and it is very much spilling from the offline world into the online world as well.
00:21:35
Speaker
I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think there's a few paths that we need to follow simultaneously to tackle that. And that has to do with being willing to call it out, being willing to talk about it, because especially in the online world, the effect that that has is it silences women directly, which is the intention of it. So we need to have the courage to not be silenced by that and to stick up for each other. But then we need the legal system surrounding that in place to recognize the threats that are made online.
00:22:01
Speaker
are also threats in Iceland. There's a new law passed against so-called revenge porn. So when people are sharing images that have been sent to them that may have been sent to that individual without consent, but not consent to share them. So again, we're working to that. And I think that a big key along there is, again, prevention and teaching people what is or is not acceptable. Sometimes you hear stories in Iceland of young people, teenagers who've been sharing images that they shouldn't be sharing, and then some of them say, well, we didn't know that this isn't legal. We didn't know that we can do this. And sometimes that might be an excuse, but I actually think that sometimes people maybe didn't know. and We need to really work as well from a very early age to teach people about concepts of consent and and informed consent.
What lessons does Eliza share in her book about gender equality?
00:22:44
Speaker
Eliza, in your first book, Secrets of the Sprakar, Iceland's Extraordinary Women and How They Are Changing the World, you talk about some of these concepts and lessons that can be learned from Iceland's progress in gender equality. Could you share with us perhaps a couple of further insights, including maybe some examples that other nations could consider adopting from a policy standpoint?
00:23:05
Speaker
Well, it's interesting you mentioned the policy standpoint. So I wrote this book, as you say, which is kind of a love letter to my adopted homeland. And I hope that it's not so much of a dry policy manual, but it's more ah I hope an inspiring tale that shares the stories of almost 40 different women.
00:23:21
Speaker
We're kind of regular women in Iceland that I feel makes it easier for us to be able to relate to them all with their unique stories. And I do talk about these policy issues such as the parental leave policy, the subsidized child care. And I think that those are very important. But most of us aren't policymakers. And I think that, of course,
00:23:42
Speaker
We hope, those of us in democracies, that we can elect officials who will implement policies that we agree with, but that either sometimes those officials don't get elected or we might not have the opportunity to do that. And I hope that the stories in Secrets with a Sprocker kind of inspire all of us to continue the work regardless of whether or not we are the policymakers or those of the people who are in there. And that involves doing things like using our voices, celebrating other people's voices and stories so that we're able to follow our own dreams and that speaking up for each other.
00:24:12
Speaker
and I know that a lot of these, maybe they sound a bit like Hallmark card slogans or something, but I think that there's a lot of truth to that and some of those ideas. and Some of these women I spoke to, I remember, I said to them, mo you are you a feminist? and Personally, I consider myself a feminist, but many of them said, oh ah No, i'm i you know I want equality on it, but I don't think I'm a feminist. And that is also ah an interesting argument for me to meet somebody who has just been doing a lot for their society. They're not letting themselves become limited and they don't consider themselves activists and they don't consider themselves rural breakers or people who are breaking barriers, but they're still kind of fighting
00:24:51
Speaker
In their own ways for what they think are important and i think we need room for all of that we need room for all of the tiny ways that we can all nudge things in the right direction because if we all do that at the same time it has a pretty powerful cumulative effect.
00:25:07
Speaker
I love how you describe your book as a love letter to your adopted homeland. And I know Hilary Clinton describes the book as a fascinating window into what a more gender equal world could look like and why it's worth striving for.
How can storytelling drive social change?
00:25:21
Speaker
And Eliza, as a writer, you are obviously very well versed in using the power of storytelling to drive social change. Can you share some more examples of this?
00:25:31
Speaker
Storytelling is one of these universal things that transcends cultures and socioeconomic backgrounds and locations. This year, I've traveled twice to Dubai in the UAE, and the first visit was my very first time in the UAE. And one of the things that I noticed coming from Iceland, where you think, oh, these are very different countries and cultures, and I noticed two things.
00:25:52
Speaker
on the first day. And one, of course, is that in both of these countries, where we have to be very aware of our natural surroundings and the weather, even though they're very different natural challenges that both countries face. And the other was the power of storytelling. And the other was the way that storytelling brings us together and provides us with an opportunity to share our value sets in a kind of cultural context that we can all relate to, and the power of storytelling. And the fact that we all have an individual story to tell. you know We don't need to have been the first to do something. We don't need to have been the fastest or the strongest or something. But we all have these unique voices and stories, and those can inspire each other. And that's what I really tried to do with Secrets of the Sprockers, share these stories of you know the sheep farmer and the search and rescue volunteer and the comedian and the football player who were just kind of regular people, but all have interesting stories.
00:26:47
Speaker
I also mentioned that I founded an event called the Iceland Writers Retreat in Iceland with a friend. We founded it in 2014. And every year we we have this event where we bring people to Iceland to Reykjavík, which is a UNESCO city of literature. And we basically share each other's stories. I mean, it's for people who just like to write and like to tell stories and then they can take all these writing workshops with each other. And we try to bring over, we usually have people from around 20 different countries who take part, which is, again, another really fun opportunity to build those international connections.
00:27:17
Speaker
Eliza, you may be aware that most of our listeners are from the nonprofit sector. And do you have any advice for nonprofit and charity sector leaders with respect to influencing through storytelling, or indeed, as you described there, enabling more diverse voices in leadership?
00:27:35
Speaker
Well, first of all, I want to thank all of you because many people who go into the nonprofit sector do it from a noble sense of altruism, which I really admire and I think is so important in our society. So thank you all for the work that you're doing.
00:27:51
Speaker
And storytelling is what distinguishes our species you know from other species, in a sense. And all of these organizations where you're working, I would say as well, it's great to have data that backs things up. It's great to know that. But find your story. Find your unique story, the heroes in your story, the challenges in your story, how you've overcome those. And those are the things that we as human beings, I think, connect to. If you hear a speech somewhere or you meet someone, you don't tend to remember that sixty seven point three percent of something happened here but you might say this woman. End up becoming first lady and she still wear her old maternity trousers cuz she had these four kids and she had no idea curtsy or something everybody has these stories that i think are what connect us and that's really really important and.
00:28:39
Speaker
Absolutely. I would encourage as well the diversity of those stories. You know, we need to hear more diverse stories. So if we don't have those diversity glasses on all the time, you know, we need to always be thinking, are we sharing the stories? Are we amplifying the stories of a diverse group of people? Because that helps connect us to even more people. It both helps connect us to people who think finally, I get to hear my own story being told here. But it also connects us for everybody else to think I have so much more in common with these different groups. and I thought maybe I did. And I think that those two things are are really important. So think about what your personal story and what your organization's story is.
00:29:18
Speaker
I love that. Find your own unique story. And as you said there, everybody's story is different and brings different perspectives and different values to the forefront.
What is the future of gender equality?
00:29:28
Speaker
yeah Looking to the future then, Eliza, if we circle back to gender equality, where do you see the global movement for gender equality in the next 10 or 20 years? And how can the next generation of leaders really build on what has been achieved thus far to create a more gender equal world?
00:29:45
Speaker
I mentioned earlier on this story that the women's day off in 1975, and at the end of 2023, we had another day off. And sometimes these have happened in Iceland to protest the wage gap at a certain time of day, but this was one another one that was all day with a specific emphasis on eradicating gender-based violence and on including non-binary individuals as well, who are even you know have even greater disparities in terms of gaps.
00:30:08
Speaker
But I remember I was abroad on that day, but I said, i'm you know, I'm taking the day off. I had an out of office on my email. I didn't work at all that day. And then I said to a few friends in Iceland or people that I knew, so are you going downtown or are you taking the day off? And I said, oh, i I can't. I've got to look after my kids. And I said, well, what about your husband? Oh, he's got such an important job. He can't take the time off. And I should preface this by saying it was a very successful strike and a lot of people went. But I did speak to several people who had this isn't really important enough kind of approach. And I thought in places like Iceland where we have come very, very far and we have certainly legally achieved most of the rights and have a lot, a lot of people maybe just think it's good enough. You know, they think maybe I don't quite earn as much as my male partner, but that good enough. And there must be some cases of gender-based violence, but that's going to happen everywhere. So that's good enough. And it concerns me because I think that good enough is not good enough.
00:31:05
Speaker
And I think that what we need to be doing going forward, certainly in higher income countries, is remembering that we can't take things for granted, that it is so, so easy to slip backwards. And we see this around the world in numerous situations of what what is going on. And I think that we need to remain vigilant we need to remember that it's important and it's something that as i said that you know several times is important for everyone so it's not a women's issue that just women should be concerned about it something that we should all be concerned about because it's gonna make things better for everyone so in ten or twenty years.
00:31:43
Speaker
I imagine we'll still be talking about this, but I hope that we again are much closer. I hope that the you know new generation, they come with fresh ideas and fresh enthusiasm and that we are continuing slowly but surely to go in the right direction. But I certainly hope we are much faster than the 130 years or whatever it is that the World Economic Forum says that it's going to take to achieve global gender parity.
How does Eliza define feminism?
00:32:05
Speaker
You said something earlier that one of the women that you interviewed for your first book reflected about wanting gender equality, but not really equating equality to being feminist. And that really struck me as an interesting notion. And in terms of feminism perhaps being seen as something that's bad and that's also then lending itself towards this rollback that we have seen of women's rights.
00:32:33
Speaker
How would you distinguish between that gender equality piece and what's being seen or portrayed in a more negative light in the media and by various people with agendas in terms of feminism?
00:32:45
Speaker
It's a great question. And I think that's one of the reasons why I often explicitly talk about being a feminist, because my definition of feminism isn't that I don't like men or that I think women are better than men or anything to do with that. To me, feminism is just, again, all about working towards achieving equality and equal opportunity for people of all genders.
00:33:08
Speaker
I think that's a positive thing. I wonder who thinks that we shouldn't be working towards creating equality for people of all genders. And so I think for people who, I'm not going to tell everyone that they have to call themselves a feminist, but I hope when I speak out, I'm one of many, many voices who is able to say that this is actually a positive term that I hope that many people wish to be associated with.
00:33:31
Speaker
But again, I think when I've spoken to people and they say, oh, and no, I'm not a feminist, I'm an egalitarian or not. I think that their definition of feminism is as somebody who thinks that women are more important or better than other genders. And I disagree with that assessment respectfully.
00:33:47
Speaker
So now that your husband is no longer in office and hopefully has had a day or four too himself, yeah what what are you most looking forward to?
What is Eliza's upcoming book series about?
00:33:57
Speaker
I understand you're writing a new book. Tell us about that. Yes, yes. So I have a new book coming out in the spring this year. So it's coming out in May in North America at the beginning of June in the UK. And it's a murder mystery, which is kind of a departure really. But I thought,
00:34:13
Speaker
I would try something different. So it's an Iceland set murder mystery, kind of classic British style set in Iceland, all about diplomats. It's called Death of a Diplomat in the UK and Death on the Island in North America. And I hope that it examines also some ideas of our histories and where we come from and the secrets that people have, but also not building assumptions on people based on their roles or or other ideas. So that's something interesting. And then it is coming out in the spring and then I'm busy working on the second one as well. So you can stay tuned for more.
00:34:45
Speaker
Oh, a sequel to the first book? Yes, yes, exactly. So I've got lots of books, projects coming up, and I'm also doing a lot of public speaking again to talk about storytelling and hopefully using my own story to inspire and to encourage people to really grasp hold of those unexpected opportunities that arise for all of us in life that can be a little bit scary, but maybe worth a shot if we try to kind of lean into that uncomfortable feeling that we have.
00:35:14
Speaker
And speaking of your own story, if you could go back in time and speak with young Eliza growing up on the hobby farm in Canada, what is one piece of advice that you would give to her that you now know to be true?
What advice does Eliza give to her younger self?
00:35:26
Speaker
Oh, my goodness. That is a tough question because I really try to live my life without regrets. I was about to make a joke about fashion or something because I'm not very good with fashion and I would have said, learn that better. But actually, I'm very comfortable with the fact that I'm not good with fashion. I don't know that i would have I would have asked young Eliza to worry more about that anyway. But I guess it would be something like to be comfortable in your own skin. So it's good to work towards improvement. But the fundamentals of who you are as a person, I think we need to be very comfortable with those ourselves because we live with ourselves all the time for a whole life. And some of those fundamentals aren't going to change. And we just need to use that as a strength.
00:36:11
Speaker
And I think not to worry what everybody else thinks, which is, I guess, the biggest cliche. But I feel like that's, as a woman, you know, once you're over 40, I think that feeling dissipates a lot and it's it's very freeing. Indeed.
What inspiration does Eliza draw from the Icelandic women's strike?
00:36:25
Speaker
Eliza, this has been such a rich and inspiring conversation. And as we come to a close, what is one final thing you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? Please give us one final thought or reflection.
00:36:37
Speaker
Well, the motto of these women who went on strike in 1975 was, we dare, we can, we will. And I think it's not my own personal motto, but I think it's a wonderful phrase to inspire people. Just remember to lean into those uncomfortable things because it helps to broaden our world a little bit. And I would emphasize again to thank everybody in this sector for all the work they do, which is really important.
00:37:01
Speaker
We dare, we can, we will. On that note, Eliza, thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure to have you on the show. My pleasure. Thanks for having me on.
00:37:12
Speaker
Well, that's a wrap on another inspiring episode of the Charity CEO podcast. I hope today's conversation left you feeling empowered and uplifted. I know it did for me. If you loved what you heard, please share the joy by leaving us a quick review on your favorite podcast platform. Reviews really help us reach more listeners and grow this amazing community of changemakers. Be sure to also hit the subscribe button so you never miss an episode.
00:37:36
Speaker
And for even more inspiration and resources, head on over to thecharityceo.com. There you can dive into our past episodes from the last five seasons and find valuable content to help fuel your impact. Thank you for listening, and remember, together we're building a better world. See you next time.