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Ep 48. Cherie Blair CBE KC, Founder, Cherie Blair Foundation for Women: Enabling economic gender justice
167 Plays11 months ago
“There is a problem! Business has a problem, the world has a problem, because we are just not utilising the talents, the ambitions, the drive of half the world’s population (the female half)... Economic gender justice is essential both for women’s freedom and equality, but also for the development of the world.”
We are honoured to have on the podcast, Cherie Blair CBE KC!
As the Founder of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, Cherie has been a relentless advocate for women's rights, particularly in low and middle-income countries. Our discussion delves into her vision for the Foundation, her journey as a leading barrister and King's Counsel in the male-dominated legal profession, and the gendered challenges women still confront today.
Cherie is of course, the wife of the former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and is an inspiration to women across the world. Recorded January 2024.
Guest Biography
Cherie Blair CBE, KC is a leading King’s Counsel with over 35 years’ experience. Cherie is a strong advocate for women’s rights and in 2008 she founded the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women. The Foundation promotes the financial independence of women in low and middle income countries so that they can be financially independent, have a stronger voice in their societies, and, contribute to their communities. Since its inception, the Foundation has had a significant and measurable impact on the lives of more than 250,000 women entrepreneurs in 105 countries especially in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
Cherie is actively involved in the Foundation, travelling internationally to visit projects and donors and to advocate for women entrepreneurs globally.
Cherie studied law at the London School of Economics (LSE) and is also the Founder and Chair of the pioneering law firm Omnia Strategy where she focuses on cross-border dispute resolution, commercial arbitration, mediation and human rights.
Cherie was awarded a CBE in the 2013 New Year’s Honours List for services to women’s issues and to charities in both the UK and overseas. She is the wife of former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair. They have 4 children and 8 grandchildren.
Links
Www.cherieblairfoundation.org
We are honoured to have on the podcast, Cherie Blair CBE KC!
As the Founder of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, Cherie has been a relentless advocate for women's rights, particularly in low and middle-income countries. Our discussion delves into her vision for the Foundation, her journey as a leading barrister and King's Counsel in the male-dominated legal profession, and the gendered challenges women still confront today.
Cherie is of course, the wife of the former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and is an inspiration to women across the world. Recorded January 2024.
Guest Biography
Cherie Blair CBE, KC is a leading King’s Counsel with over 35 years’ experience. Cherie is a strong advocate for women’s rights and in 2008 she founded the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women. The Foundation promotes the financial independence of women in low and middle income countries so that they can be financially independent, have a stronger voice in their societies, and, contribute to their communities. Since its inception, the Foundation has had a significant and measurable impact on the lives of more than 250,000 women entrepreneurs in 105 countries especially in Africa, the Middle East and Asia.
Cherie is actively involved in the Foundation, travelling internationally to visit projects and donors and to advocate for women entrepreneurs globally.
Cherie studied law at the London School of Economics (LSE) and is also the Founder and Chair of the pioneering law firm Omnia Strategy where she focuses on cross-border dispute resolution, commercial arbitration, mediation and human rights.
Cherie was awarded a CBE in the 2013 New Year’s Honours List for services to women’s issues and to charities in both the UK and overseas. She is the wife of former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair. They have 4 children and 8 grandchildren.
Links
Www.cherieblairfoundation.org
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Transcript
Global Economic Gender Justice: Why It Matters
00:00:00
Speaker
There is a problem, business has a problem, the world has a problem, because we're just not utilising the talents, the ambitions, the drive of half the world's population, that being the female half. And economic gender justice is essential both for women's freedom and equality, but also for the development of the world.
00:00:23
Speaker
2.4 billion women of working age are not afforded equal economic opportunity. And it's going to take, according to the World Economic Forum's latest Global Gender Get report, 169 years to reach economic gender parity between men and women. And that's a figure that in the last few years has actually gone backwards, not forwards.
Launch of Charity CEO Podcast
00:00:55
Speaker
Welcome to an exciting new season of the Charity CEO podcast, where we bring you the stories and insights of remarkable charity leaders who are changing the world for the better. We talk to the people who run nonprofits, the movers and shakers, who are driving positive change in this space, inspiring you to take bold action and make a difference. To all our listeners across the globe, I am thrilled to have you with us.
00:01:18
Speaker
We've received amazing feedback from listeners in over 42 countries, including the UK, US, Australia, Canada and India. Your support and engagement is what makes this community so special. To all of you who pour your hearts and souls into making the world a better place through your work in the charity and non-profit sectors, thank you. I'm Divya O'Connor and here's the show.
Cherie Blair: Advocacy for Women's Rights
00:01:41
Speaker
Today is a very special episode. I'm honored to have on the podcast Cherie Blair, CVE, KC. As the founder of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, Cherie has been a relentless advocate for women's rights, particularly in low and middle income countries. Our discussion delves into her vision for the foundation, her journey as a leading barrister and king's counsel in the male dominated legal profession, and the gender challenges women still confront today.
00:02:06
Speaker
Cherie is of course the wife of the former UK Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and is an inspiration to women all across the world. As the recently appointed Chief Executive of the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women, for me personally, having this conversation was truly inspiring. I hope you enjoy it.
00:02:25
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back to the Charity CEO podcast. We are all in for a real treat today because it is my absolute pleasure to welcome to the show Cherie Blair CBE Casey. Welcome Cherie. I'm delighted to be here. Well, we are going to start with some icebreaker questions just to give our listeners a little bit of a glimpse into who you are. So if you're ready, we can get started. Absolutely.
00:02:52
Speaker
Question one, what was your first job? My first job was as a shop assistant in Lewis's Liverpool, where my mum worked as a manager in the travel bureau there, that I was working in the school uniform section. Wow. Question two, as a child, what did you dream of becoming when you grew up? When I was 14, I told the girls in class and we were talking about what we wanted to do, that I was going to be the first woman prime minister.
00:03:19
Speaker
Brilliant. I love that. Question three, what would you say is your professional superpower? I think persistence. And question four, what hobby or activity do you turn to when you want to disconnect from work? I think really two things. One is I like to do some exercise every day, whether it's yoga or Pilates or some personal training.
00:03:40
Speaker
And secondly, from a very early age, I was a very young reader and I still love reading novels, which I do every night.
00:03:50
Speaker
Lovely. And the final question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? I think I'd like to interview Queen Elizabeth I and ask her how did she cope being such the only woman in such a man's world?
00:04:11
Speaker
Brilliant question and very topical and relevant for what we are going to come on to talk about in this conversation.
Empowering Women's Economic Independence
00:04:18
Speaker
So Cherie, you set up the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women in 2008 and I'm absolutely delighted to have recently joined as the Foundation's new CEO. You absolutely have.
00:04:30
Speaker
Thank you. Take us back to 2008. What led you to set up the foundation? What was your motivation? Well, I think my motivation came from my own professional journey as a woman in a man's world. Someone growing up from a one parent family brought up by women.
00:04:49
Speaker
My mum, I mentioned, worked in a store. I mean, she was the only breadwinner in our household. And so from a very early age, I'd learned that for a woman to have economic independence gave her the right to make choices. But I also learned from a very early age that it's not that easy being a woman in certainly in the 50s and 60s when
00:05:13
Speaker
My mum was trying to support her family. And then it seemed to be a little easier when I was at school. But then when I actually first entered the legal profession and tried to find my own job, I discovered that in the 1970s in the UK and indeed in Western Europe, there was still a feeling that women really didn't have a place in the workforce. Or if they did, it certainly wasn't at the top of that particular profession.
00:05:42
Speaker
So that feeling of being so fortunate, of being someone who managed to come into the workforce at a time when things were changing, when there were opportunities for women, I was lucky enough to take up those opportunities. And then of course, lucky enough that my husband became prime minister and I spent 10 years with this French row seat on what was going on in the world and traveled around the world.
00:06:10
Speaker
And when that all came to an end, I felt pretty strongly that I wanted to do something with those experiences and to give something back. And it was natural, I think, that I would look at women's economic empowerment because of my own personal history and also because as I traveled around the world, particularly to lower middle-income countries, I met many women whose position was more similar to those of my mother and my grandmother in their societies or
00:06:38
Speaker
more similar to my position in the 1970s than they were for the position in Western Europe and then the USA in the early noughties. And so I thought we've learned so much about how far women can come, but if we can put that learning to help.
00:06:56
Speaker
other women accelerate that process so that they can gain that economic independence that allows them to make their choices for themselves and their families, then we could really change the world. Absolutely. And for listeners who may not be that familiar with the Foundation's work, give us a sense of the scale of the problem globally for women and for women's economic empowerment, as you've touched on there, as well as how specifically the Foundation helps.
The Gender Parity Gap: A Long Journey Ahead
00:07:25
Speaker
There is a problem. Business has a problem. The world has a problem because we're just not utilizing the talents, the ambitions, the drive of half the world's population, that being the female half.
00:07:40
Speaker
and economic gender justice is essential both for women's freedom and equality but also for the development of the world. 2.4 billion women of working age are not afforded equal economic opportunity and indeed 178 countries maintain legal barriers that prevent women fully participating in the economy.
00:08:03
Speaker
And it's going to take, according to the World Economic Forum's latest Global Gender Get report, 169 years to reach economic gender parity between men and women. And that's a figure that in the last few years has actually gone backwards, not forwards.
00:08:21
Speaker
Then when you look at women entrepreneurs themselves and you look at what does business need to grow and expand, it needs investment, it needs finance, it needs access to capital. But the fact is there's a 1.7 trillion US dollar gap for women-led, small and medium-sized enterprises. And we actually did a survey of the women we work with and 44% of them said they didn't have equal access to formal investment opportunities.
00:08:49
Speaker
And globally, more than 70% of the women who own small and medium-sized businesses don't have any access or very inadequate access to financial services. It just doesn't make sense.
00:09:05
Speaker
And, you know, it's been estimated by various bodies that if women and men participated equally as entrepreneurs, then global GDP would rise by 6%, boosting the world economy from between $2.5 to $5 trillion.
00:09:22
Speaker
So this is not just something about women themselves, it's about everybody, because we could all do with that additional money going through the economy, enabling us to improve the lives for
Progress in Education and Health, but Power Gaps Persist
00:09:35
Speaker
all the people.
00:09:36
Speaker
You spoke there about the need to invest in women and as we are approaching International Women's Day, this year's theme is actually on the need to invest in women to accelerate progress. 169 years to reach gender equality, I mean that is so far away unfortunately from the Sustainable Development Goal 5 of gender equality by
00:09:58
Speaker
2030, that there is such a huge deficit in spending on gender equality measures across the world. And I know that you and all of us at the Foundation are certainly not prepared to wait 169 years. And this is why we do the work that we do. Well, the 169 figure, of course, is about economic participation. Yes.
00:10:16
Speaker
There's no doubt at all that investing in women isn't just about investing in their businesses, it's also about their education and their health. And on those levels, the figures are a bit more encouraging. But when you talk about where the power lies in the world, in the economy and in politics, those figures are much less encouraging, including the 169 years of economic equality.
00:10:40
Speaker
I've heard you speak quite openly about the gendered challenges that you have faced in your career and in your role as the wife of the former Prime Minister of the UK, Toni Blair. What do you see as some of the key areas still requiring progress for women that you feel absolutely need to be focused on right now?
00:11:00
Speaker
Well, the Foundation's vision remains really the same as it was in 2008, which is for women to enjoy equal economic opportunities so they can fulfil their potential. And we are still working on that mission, particularly through our programmes.
Innovation and Technology in Women's Empowerment
00:11:18
Speaker
When I set up the foundation, I realized that technology was a key. And so we wanted to set up the foundation to use technology to be able to take our programs to scale, to reach many more women than we could just face to face. And technology is still a huge part of the programs that we did. The other thing we were convinced about is that it's not something that you necessarily have to do
00:11:47
Speaker
yourself as a foundation. It's all about working in partnership. So we've always wanted to have a lean organization, which is innovative, which goes in and works with local partners in order to achieve women's economic empowerment.
00:12:03
Speaker
And we've done that as well. We don't, as a foundation, set up organisations on the ground ourselves. We partner with local organisations who know the area much better than we do and give our expertise to help them promote women's economic empowerment. And we do that really through three programmes. The first one is our global mentoring programme.
00:12:28
Speaker
which is one that we set up from the very beginning. It matches men and women mentors around the world to have a personal ongoing year relationship with a woman entrepreneur that we have identified through our partners who is ready for the next stage of their business. By using the internet and then meeting over the internet,
00:12:48
Speaker
once or twice a month, they set goals and then they are assessed on whether they achieve that goal. The mentoring programme has gone from strength to strength and it's also gold accredited by an European organisation. At the end of the day, the mentors get a qualification and the mentees get accreditation as a former mentee of the Sri Blaire Foundation.
00:13:16
Speaker
Then we have a suite of programs. Obviously, the mentoring platform is wholly driven by technology and people. Then we have our road to programs, which are a mixture of blended learning programs. So we bring together women in groups to learn. So there's road to leadership, road to growth, road to marketing, road to finance, and they bring them together
00:13:42
Speaker
to learn together both in person but also online. Those are a shorter time, a couple of months. Then at the end of that, the women tend to be able to then go through almost like a dragon's den process where they can show what they've learned and hopefully attract some investment into their
00:14:05
Speaker
business. And then the final program we have, and the one where we really do go to scale, is our HaVenture app. And the HaVenture app is, I call it sometimes a nano MBA. You download it from the internet if it's available through our partners.
00:14:23
Speaker
and it takes you on an internet-assisted journey to learn whether you're a beginner, thinking about setting up a business, whether you're an existing business, wanting to expand that business. During the COVID pandemic, we introduced particular lines about internet marketing, about resilience. It's a very flexible tool, and we've reached 100,000 women in the last couple of years with her venture app since it's been launched.
00:14:53
Speaker
In the countries where it is, it's in the local language, like, for example, in Nigeria, it's in English, but in Vietnam, it's in Vietnamese. So, it's enabled us to reach out and share our knowledge and expertise with so many more women, and we are very ambitious to ensure that that program continues to expand because the
00:15:17
Speaker
information is there, the knowledge, the learning is there. It's just a question of finding the right partners to be able to distribute it to as many women as possible. Yes, it's very exciting that we have now reached 100,000 users through the HerVenture app, which is fantastic. And talking about technology, Cherie, how can the foundation continue to remain relevant? How do you see us continuing to harness technology in order to lead us into the future?
00:15:47
Speaker
Well, this is the most relevant question, I think, for the Foundation. Because, as I said, we've always wanted to be innovators. We don't want to have huge organization. What we'd rather want to do is to take a concept, prove the concept, and then share it. And in doing that,
00:16:06
Speaker
using technology. Technology changes all the time, so we have to also adapt our technology. Now, of course, because we're working in lower-middle-income countries, there is a bit of a lag, but on the other hand, sometimes in lower-middle-income countries, and I think, for example, mobile money, they can actually be ahead.
00:16:28
Speaker
of using mobile money because they haven't had the traditional banking system, for example. So it's not always the case that working in low-mid-Lincoln countries, the latest technology isn't available. So at the moment, of course, everybody's talking about AI. And we are looking to how we can incorporate AI and whatever else this tech ever-changing landscape throws up to improve the offer that we make to our women entrepreneurs.
00:16:57
Speaker
But we're also very conscious that there's a huge technology gap, particularly between men and women in all countries, more so, I think, in low and middle income countries. So we also want to make sure our technology is broadly available. So one example of that is what we did with her venture app in South Africa.
00:17:16
Speaker
data can be hugely expensive there. And so we work with our partners to ensure that the apps learning modules could be available offline. So you could just download them in one go and then slowly work your way through them. And that's very helpful, particularly in rural areas. I saw for myself when I went to Ghana recently,
00:17:36
Speaker
There, our local technology partner, the mobile phone operator, actually took mobile hubs into the rural areas, so they provided internet access, allowed the local people to come and download our app,
00:17:53
Speaker
for free, and then once they've got that app, of course, they could go away and use it in the way that suited them in the time that they had available. So there's this balance of bringing technology whilst recognising that the expense of technology isn't always available to people on low income.
00:18:14
Speaker
We've actually just now released our new research with partners at Intuit, and it highlights the vital importance of ensuring that women entrepreneurs are able to fully harness and utilize generative AI to their advantage. I mean, you know, many of your people have heard of chat GPT. I've even used it myself. But research has shown that more men than women use AI in their professional personal lives, 54% to 35%.
00:18:43
Speaker
So we wanted to look and see how are women entrepreneurs using AI or how are they even getting access to it. And we found that many of the women already use AI to create marketing materials, generate new ideas or write content for emails or other communications. But the time and again, the women were telling us they want more training and support so they can use the opportunities that AI offers to support their businesses.
00:19:11
Speaker
And we're going to use this research to help us join in the conversations at the UN Commission on the Status of Women and other key global platforms to look at how we can ensure that women's digital inclusion encompasses AI.
00:19:31
Speaker
But at the same time, of course, we always have to remember that there are disadvantages to technology for women. I only need to mention safe spaces, harassment, trolling, and other online abuses. So again, it's about developing. We're very keen to develop programs and help through our apps, through our programs, to help women entrepreneurs get the best
00:19:56
Speaker
out of technology and the new AI that's coming through with also being able to manage the disadvantages and be able to understand how you can avoid whether it's abuse or indeed exploitation, including financial exploitation being led to believe you're getting some sort of business relationship when in fact what they're doing is taking your money. This happens too often.
00:20:23
Speaker
This is, if you like, our latest way that the Foundation uses its expertise in technology and its knowledge of what women entrepreneurs want to need to try and shape the agenda and give their voices an opportunity to participate in the discussions.
Impact Stories from Women Entrepreneurs
00:20:41
Speaker
Cherie, I know that you are incredibly active in your support for the organization and that you visited many of our program countries. I mean, you mentioned Guyana there a few months ago. Are there any stories or conversations that you've had with women entrepreneurs that have really brought home the impact of our work? I would love to hear some of your favorite stories or anecdotes.
00:21:01
Speaker
I absolutely love going and visiting our programs and meeting the fantastic women that we work with. I was lucky enough just this summer in August to go to Guyana where we're using all three of our programs in Guyana and it's been, if I may say, a tremendous success and I went there
00:21:21
Speaker
And I was able to tour three businesses of the women entrepreneurs that we were working with in Georgetown. And they were incredible businesses. One was a vegetarian restaurant. One was a woman in that very man's world of engineering and building works, which a lot is going on in Ghana because it suddenly got this oil wealth. And
00:21:45
Speaker
The third one was someone called Carlotta John, and she has a business called Children Are Us, which provides quality childcare and is now expanding into nursery education and beyond. And she was such an amazing inspirational woman, and she'd come on our road to growth, road to leadership programs.
00:22:06
Speaker
And actually after her first experience on the program, she actually offered and we took up the opportunity for her business to provide childcare for the women who were on the program. And that was particularly helpful because we did find the first program that some women dropped out just because they couldn't find childcare. Now we're providing childcare as well.
00:22:32
Speaker
I actually gave out the certificates and there were eight pregnant women on that course of whom seven graduated. The eighth was unable to continue because she had an early pregnancy and had to stop.
00:22:49
Speaker
One woman came with her tiny baby strapped to her to receive her award, which was amazing. But I'll always remember what Carlotta said to me. She said, before I did the programme, I was busy, but now I have a business.
00:23:06
Speaker
And that's really at the heart of what we do. So many of the women entrepreneurs we work with will tell us that, you know, but I'm making more and I'm spending more hours, but I don't seem to be earning anymore. And it's about giving that business training that rigor.
00:23:23
Speaker
of a course in how you run a business that enables the women to turn being busy into actually having a viable business. So thank you, Carlotta, for that. I'll always remember it.
00:23:38
Speaker
And then, you know, I talked about our work in Africa. I mentioned South Africa. We've also done a lot of work in Nigeria. Nigeria is one of the first countries we worked in. We still work in Nigeria because Nigerian women are incredible entrepreneurs and so inspirational. Always when I meet them, they always give me such a buzz. One woman I met recently is called Sola Adesakin.
00:24:04
Speaker
And she is a former Road to Growth participant and her company is called Smart Stewards. And it wants to help Africans, middle class Africans, to build their wealth. And she started a junior club for children after the Road to Growth program because she realised there was a need for children and young adults to learn about financial literacy.
00:24:29
Speaker
And to hear her speak, and if you go on our website, you'll see her and hear what she says. It's truly inspirational to see the ripple effect that our women entrepreneurs are having throughout their communities and how so many of them are always looking at ways to give back.
00:24:47
Speaker
What I love about those stories there, Cherie, particularly the one about Colletta, was it really highlights that one of the key benefits is also the aspect of collaboration and facilitating the networks between women entrepreneurs themselves so that they can essentially support each other as they are growing their own businesses and enabling other women in their communities as well.
00:25:09
Speaker
I can remember another cohort of Road to Growth participants that I met several years ago now in Nigeria and they told me that they decided to call themselves sister printers.
00:25:21
Speaker
Oh, I love that. And they keep in touch with us even now because in our Road to Growth programme, we set up them into small groups and they have WhatsApp groups. And we've found every time we go back that they're still participating in those WhatsApp groups and giving each other support and encouragement and indeed sometimes trading with each other. So it is genuinely creating this ripple effect of empowering women in the communities.
The Power of Mentorship
00:25:45
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:25:46
Speaker
Cherie, I'd like to touch upon mentoring. I know that you are a huge advocate for the transformational power of mentoring and you spoke there about our Mentoring Women in Business program. I would love to hear whether in your own career you had a mentor and what impact they had on your career.
00:26:06
Speaker
Well, I certainly did. Most of them were men, in fact, because when I first became a lawyer, you know, I remember the first year of training you do like an apprenticeship. I don't think I ever saw a single woman speaking court. But I was very lucky, and there is a tradition in the English bar for older or senior barristers to take under their wing more junior barristers, and I was very lucky.
00:26:30
Speaker
to have a number of amazing QCs, whether it was Alexander Ervin or Michael Belloff or Frederick Reynolds, all of whom mentored and sponsored me and brought me into their cases and promoted me to their clients, and that was an amazing thing.
00:26:50
Speaker
And then when Tony became Prime Minister, of course, Hillary Clinton was an amazing help to me, just both as an inspirational role model, but also with some practical advice that she gave me. Then in 2008, we set up the foundation. And again, Hillary was very, at that point, was Secretary of State.
00:27:10
Speaker
She was very keen on women's empowerment in general and economic empowerment in particular, and she and the State Department also helped with the early years of the Foundation.
Collaboration Over Self-Sufficiency in Foundation's Approach
00:27:23
Speaker
Cherie, I'd like to come back to talk about partnerships which are very much at the heart of the Foundation's work. As you mentioned there, in each of our programme countries, we work with local partners to deliver expert entrepreneurship training and resources, and they really help us customise that content to the local context.
00:27:42
Speaker
We also have a number of long-term funder relationships which have over the years helped the Foundation to develop new services and involve our existing programs. What do partnerships enable for the Foundation that would not be possible without them? Well, I don't think the Foundation would be possible without them. I think I said earlier
00:28:01
Speaker
that it has never been our ambition to sort of reinvent the wheel. It's been our ambition to bring, to develop an expertise and then bring that expertise to work with others in order to achieve that elusive goal, because it's getting more and more elusive of women's economic equality and the development goals that are supposed to be achieved 2030 in which we're nowhere anyway near achieving at the moment.
00:28:31
Speaker
So, without our in-country partners, we would just be some outsiders coming in to a community and apparently trying to tell them what to do. That is not a model that we use. We know what we know, but we also know that the people we work with who are in-country know so much more about how that will work in their context.
00:28:54
Speaker
So our in-country partners help us design and modify our work and then they help us deliver our work so that working closely together we can really ensure that what we're offering is relevant to the communities with whom we work.
00:29:14
Speaker
They know about the women's entrepreneurship landscape. They know what women need in their country. And they, of course, also are the ones who have access to the women who can participate in our programs. So we have so many local partners.
00:29:29
Speaker
some more recent, some going back for years and without them we would not have been able to achieve the reach that we have which is now over a quarter of a million women entrepreneurs. So it's great to be able to take this opportunity to say thank you to all of them.
00:29:47
Speaker
But of course, we also have on the other side our long-term dedicated partnerships with funders, with companies, with high net worth individuals and with institutions that have funded us to create bespoke projects and enable us to experiment sometimes with our programs because we want to be at the cutting edge. And often, particularly our funders who offer us unrestricted funds can enable us to do something like, for example,
00:30:17
Speaker
Working with, is it possible with the mentoring program to actually have a mentoring relationship when you're not in the same room? And so it absolutely is and indeed has some advantages. Or is it possible to use technology to run training courses?
00:30:33
Speaker
These things would not have been possible but for the funders who had the faith in us to fund what we were doing. Our funders provided us with a big picture, a global vision, their own expertise
00:30:49
Speaker
from their own experiences as businesses, as people who've been fortunate enough to be successful, and they enable us to develop year on and year on and build knowledge to create impact in a regional and global level, rather than just coming in for one-off projects and then going. Those long-term partnerships are very important. Let me give an example of a recent one
00:31:16
Speaker
about our work in South Africa, where since 2021, thanks to the funding by DHL Express, who we've had a long-term partnership also in Kenya and other places, but they had this long-term vision for South Africa.
00:31:33
Speaker
We have developed a project in South Africa with Gordon Institute of Business Science, which is part of the University of Pretoria, because our partners often are universities as well, not just businesses or NGOs that we partner with, universities, because they have the expertise in business.
00:31:50
Speaker
teaching and also with the South African government through their small enterprise development agency so that we are working hand in hand with the government as we are in Guyana, as we are in Vietnam, as we are in Kenya with some of the other parts of the world where we work. And through that we supported over 5,000 South African women entrepreneurs and DHL has just very kindly
00:32:18
Speaker
continued our partnership for another three years, which enables us to reach even more women in South Africa. And the potential there is enormous. Again, South African women entrepreneurs, they do amazing things, whether it's in the mining sector or engineering, in finance, or indeed in fashion or in film, in cooking, whatever it is.
00:32:40
Speaker
ballet. I remember one South African entrepreneur who ran a tremendous ballet school. She herself had been a participant in the South African equivalent of Strictly Come Dancing. I like that too.
00:32:56
Speaker
Well, it's really fascinating to hear about how the partnerships have played such an important role and how the programmes and partnerships have evolved over the past years. And I think perhaps less so 15 years ago, but certainly today, there are a number of other organisations that also operate in the women's economic empowerment space. But crystallise for us what you see as unique about the foundations offering.
00:33:26
Speaker
I think we're unique for three reasons. Firstly, we are women-centered. We're about women's entrepreneurship and our aim is, and we do, is to speak and listen to them and use their knowledge and needs
00:33:43
Speaker
to inform the programs that we build, and also to inform the advocacy to take this issue to the international stage. We use our platforms to uplift their voices and experiences, and if you go to our website, www.wishareebarefoundation.org, you will see it is dominated
00:34:06
Speaker
are the stories of the women themselves and their voices in the videos that we make, which allows them to come alive, I think, to anyone who looks at our programme. Technology is very much a key part of what we do. We harness the power of technology to support women.
00:34:26
Speaker
They're all tech-based, our programmes in some way or another, and it means that we constantly are capitalising on new developments and opportunities to support women. To do that, we also need to stay up to date, so it's a big incentive to us to make sure that we're always looking for the new opportunities to use the benefits of technology to help women entrepreneurs.
00:34:49
Speaker
And finally, what we said already about working in collaboration. We collaborate with a huge global network of expert partners across public and private sector and civil society. And our aim is to enable knowledge sharing, program design and delivery, and particularly to press for and enact change. We have our latest campaign is to reach a million women by 2030.
00:35:17
Speaker
I don't pretend that the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women can do that on their own, but I do know that by partnering with like-minded experts and organizations and philanthropists and everybody in this field that together we can reach that one million target. And I think that the most important thing is not who reaches the target, but how do we all together reach that target?
00:35:46
Speaker
Absolutely. And you spoke earlier about the barriers that women entrepreneurs in low and middle income countries face. Over the past 15 years, what do you think have been some of the biggest recurring challenges or barriers that the organization has faced in its work to advance women's economic empowerment in these countries? What are some of the themes that keep coming up again and again for women in low and middle income countries?
Financial Barriers for Women Entrepreneurs
00:36:15
Speaker
Well, you won't be surprised, and I'm sure the listeners won't be surprised to know that the biggest theme, whenever I meet a woman entrepreneur, if I ask them what the biggest problem is, they say access to finance. It's due to a plethora of reasons, but always time and time again, I've already talked about statistics. It's pathetically small, whether it's venture capital, like the pinnacle of big money when it's less than 2%, it's pathetic.
00:36:44
Speaker
to small, medium-sized enterprises just trying to gain access to banks to give them some kind of loan or overdraft or financial product that can enable them to expand their business.
00:37:02
Speaker
Access to finance is so crucial and it links, I think, to the second thing because one of the reasons, as far as we can tell from our research, why women aren't getting access to finance is this terrible gender stereotypes and bias.
00:37:18
Speaker
stereotypes impact on how women are taken seriously as businesswomen. We've done many surveys of people we work with and they all say that time and time again they're sort of saying well you know women can't really do business or what does your husband think about this or well it's too risky because women don't understand how to manage money, something I really can't understand how anyone can think that.
00:37:42
Speaker
And so this idea of these stereotypes actually means that sometimes even financial institutions and banking offices didn't even realise that they're screening out women just without thinking about it because they're affected by these unconscious biases.
00:38:01
Speaker
And that also leads to another thing, which is that financial products often don't appeal to women. And this is one of the things I'm very proud of about what the Foundation does. All our programs, all our examples, our venture app, it's all about women entrepreneurs. Too often, when one talks about entrepreneurship training, one talks about entrepreneurship products, the default is a man.
00:38:31
Speaker
Now, the interesting thing to me is when women see these men doing this work, then they kind of think, oh, it can't be meant for me. But when we look at our adventure app, which is available free, we actually find, and it's been a common theme,
00:38:48
Speaker
that approximately 10% of the people who download those programs are men. Now, that's fine for us because the information we give, of course, is information that is available to everyone. But it's interesting, isn't it, the men
00:39:03
Speaker
to see a program for women with examples of women doing things. And they don't think, oh, that's got nothing to do with me. And yet women do tend to think that. So I think the fact that everything is women-centered is a very, very important way. And you can't really achieve women's economic empowerment and equality without ensuring that you tailor your programs to meet
00:39:28
Speaker
the reality of being a woman in today's world, which is why our programmes not only talk about profit and loss accounts and capital and income, how you raise finance, it also talks about how do you cope with work-life balance, how do you cope with gender stereotypes.
00:39:44
Speaker
violence. We are none of these violence in particular, not an anti- domestic violence charity, but we have to focus on the impact that women have in their lives. And for many, suddenly starting to stand on their own two feet can lead to resistance from within their homes, within their families and within their communities.
00:40:08
Speaker
So delivering programmes that are relevant to women is so, so important. At the same time, I think there's a supply side issue, which is because women often don't get the same education or because they're not encouraged to go into STEMs and maths, there is a lack of financial literacy and it's a key barrier for accessing finance for women.
00:40:36
Speaker
And so, you know, our financial literacy programs, I think, are very much a key. Before the pandemic, the best estimate was that women owned about 30% of global businesses, but they only got 5% of the conventional business loans from bank. And recently, the World Bank estimated that that number has probably fallen by half today. So it was 5%.
00:41:04
Speaker
before the pandemic, and it's now down to 2.5%. It's not surprising that the World Economic Forum figure is getting worse rather than better. So we have to ensure that we work together to overcome those obstacles, but working always with the women at the centre of the heart of everything we do, because they know best what's going to work for them.
00:41:33
Speaker
It's so interesting that gender stereotypes are so deep rooted that I know that in certain countries in Africa, actually women can't take out a loan from a bank without having a male relative co-sign as a ground tour. And I know we are piloting some work with women entrepreneurs in Guyana to actually help them access microfinance and microloans. So that is certainly a really key area for us at the foundation.
00:41:59
Speaker
Absolutely, isn't it? It always has a resonance for me because way back in the 1960s, my mother tried to get a loan from a bank to buy a house because she was living with her mother-in-law. She was told by then that unless her husband, who had abandoned her,
00:42:18
Speaker
10 years before and who was quite a famous person in the UK and was known for the fact that he was a boozy womanizer, reckless person. But unless he could guarantee and signed for her, then she couldn't get along because his word as a man was worth more than hers.
00:42:38
Speaker
It is so fascinating.
Entrepreneurship as a Path to Overcoming Barriers
00:42:40
Speaker
And indeed, to share a personal story, Cherie, my mother-in-law, who's Irish and grew up in Ireland in the 60s. And at that time, once a woman got married, she was not legally allowed to be employed or to work. She was fine to work before she got married, but once she was married, as a married woman, you were not allowed to work in Ireland. And so my mother-in-law actually then set up a business with her
00:43:04
Speaker
husband, my father-in-law, and became an entrepreneur and had a very successful business. And though my father-in-law always said that she was the brains behind the business. I'm sure she was. And that example, actually, so many times when the world of work doesn't suit the reality of women's lives, entrepreneurship is a way
00:43:24
Speaker
out of that dilemma in a way of actually, if the system won't change to meet me, I'm just going to go out and set up my own way of doing things. That's kind of what I did with both the foundation and indeed with my own law firm, Omnia Strategy. Yes, absolutely. Cherie, this podcast is listened to by thousands of charity and nonprofit sector leaders across the world. Given your considerable experience to date, both in the legal profession, you mentioned Omnia there,
00:43:54
Speaker
and engaging with leaders on the global stage, what would you say are three key attributes of great leaders?
00:44:04
Speaker
I think they have to have a vision, they have to have compassion, and they absolutely have to listen. Vision, compassion, and the ability to listen. Thank you. Tell us about a woman, perhaps an entrepreneur or leader who inspires you and why. You mentioned Hillary Clinton before. Is there anybody else in the arc of your journey that has been inspiring to you?
00:44:27
Speaker
Well, apart from all the amazing women that I could go on for ages that I've met, of course, if I go back to my early years and think about who inspired me then, I would say it was Rose Halbron. Rose Halbron was the first woman QC. She was made a QC in, well, actually it was KC then, in 1949.
00:44:47
Speaker
And she came from Liverpool, which is where I was brought up, where my grandmother, my mother's mother-in-law, was a great admirer. Liverpool was very proud of Rose Halbron. And I think she became a KC, she defended people facing the death penalty, she became a High Court judge. I actually appeared in front of her later on in life.
00:45:10
Speaker
But I think somehow that idea that she was a mother, by the way, and her daughter is a friend of mine, also herself, a successful Casey. In the back of my mind, it was like, if this woman from Liverpool can make it, then maybe so, can I? I love that story. And looking back, Cherie, to when you were first starting that journey, is there any advice you would give to yourself that you know now that perhaps you didn't know back then?
00:45:39
Speaker
I mean, honestly, we've grown so much, we've learned so much over the time. I can't believe that we started off with me and a few friends of mine who shared my passion for women's economic empowerment sitting around my kitchen table thinking, what can we do?
00:45:56
Speaker
Humility maybe is what I have. Don't assume that you have all the answers. Listen and make sure that actually what you're doing is for the benefit of the people you're hoping to benefit, not just so that you feel better.
00:46:15
Speaker
Indeed, many of our listeners are folks who are absolutely dedicated to improving people's lives and making their lives better. In those roles, you often need to influence policymakers and people in power to do so. Do you have any advice to share with listeners with respect to influencing and persuading stakeholders who may actually not want to be influenced in the first place?
00:46:39
Speaker
Well, I think I'm very lucky in one sense that I have been able to get access to people, which maybe not everybody can, especially at the moment with the Crown series going on, only people are curious to meet me. So getting my foot in the door always helps. But, you know,
00:46:57
Speaker
I think one has to be realistic, and I was just talking to somebody yesterday about this. Generally speaking, people will be interested as they can see that there is a benefit to them. So supporting women entrepreneurs may not be on everyone's agenda, but if you can explain how it's a great way to boost economies, to create jobs,
00:47:21
Speaker
community health and education, then they start to think about it. That figure of the $2.5 to $5 trillion, it does mean something. When we first started with the mobile phone companies, one of the things they were interested in was getting more subscribers and getting people to use
00:47:40
Speaker
more the data and the timing because these days everyone has a phone, but data and giving them programs to use that phone for is the key. So that was a very compelling message that we were able to give to the mobile phone people. But we also need to talk about changing who these powerful people are because they are overwhelmingly men.
00:48:07
Speaker
You know, and women do make decisions that come out of their own experiences. They may not, they may well be the same decisions in the end. Brenda Hale, who was the first woman to head our Supreme Court always says that, you know, it's not that wise women and wise men may come to different decisions, but the way they come to them is based on the different experiences that they have, which is why it is so important that for diversity and for getting the right decisions,
00:48:35
Speaker
that we have more women leaders in every field. So we need to ensure that we, as men and women who believe in that, need to support and encourage other women leaders. And that way, as I said before about the World Economic Forum report, education and health are going in the right way, but they're sort of in some ways easy. Power is about business and politics.
00:49:02
Speaker
they're not doing so well on that index. So the more we enable women to actually take positions of power, and I don't just mean as prime ministers or MPs, it's in the local area, it's in business, it's in the academic area,
00:49:20
Speaker
in the professions, the more that we have on diversity of views, men and women, different backgrounds, different ethnicities, different life experiences, different ages, different abilities, the better our decision-making will become.
00:49:38
Speaker
And finally, looking at the world today, Cherie, what gives you hope for the future?
Vision for the Future: Leadership and Impact
00:49:44
Speaker
The power of women and the persistence and the resilience of women around the world, when everything else is going pear shaped, somehow or the stand up, plant their feet on the ground and say, we're going to get through this and we're going to make things better.
00:50:03
Speaker
OK, Divya, I'm not going to lose this opportunity to put you
00:50:09
Speaker
on the spot and ask you a little bit as the foundation's new CEO. I want to know, what inspired you to want to come and be the chief executive of the foundation? What is it in your life that has led you here today? I grew up in India in the city of Chennai, and India still today is a fairly patriarchal society and culture. I think that's an understatement.
00:50:35
Speaker
Well, certainly 30 plus years ago when I was growing up, it was much more prevalent and I experienced discrimination as a young woman and faced all the subtle and often not so subtle ways that women and girls are treated differently.
00:50:50
Speaker
And that really fired me a passion and drive towards gender equality and social justice. And so championing education, empowerment and elevating women and girls has been a through line in my career. I now have a young daughter and I truly want to help create a world that is fairer and more equitable
00:51:12
Speaker
for her and her generation. And I share, Cherie, your vision of a future where women enjoy equal opportunities, particularly economic opportunities, to be able to take control of their own destinies and fulfill their potential in their lives. And so it's a combination of all of those factors that has led me to the foundation.
00:51:34
Speaker
What about how would you approach working in partnership? How do we get more people to come on board this campaign? What's your mission to help us do that? I've been reflecting on the foundation's role as an entity in the global north supporting women entrepreneurs in the global south, and how we can leverage that position in the most effective and
00:51:57
Speaker
And you spoke a little bit about this earlier as well. I think the Foundation has a really important role to play as an intermediary to channel funds from the Global North and also to really give women entrepreneurs a voice to advocate on their behalf and to help dismantle some of the barriers that hold them back.
00:52:19
Speaker
I think we are extremely privileged at the Foundation, given our networks and of course your incredible personal profile, to be able to access those global platforms and spaces of influence that perhaps our local partners and the women entrepreneurs that we support can't access. So it really is incumbent on us.
00:52:40
Speaker
to use our voice in the most effective way to help better the lives of women entrepreneurs in low and middle income countries. So I would really, to that end, like to see the foundation play a much bigger role in this convening and influencing space.
00:52:57
Speaker
At the same time, recognizing issues of structural inequality that exists more widely in the international development sector, and really working therefore in deeper solidarity with our in-country partners. I believe taking that approach will hopefully encourage more partnerships and collaborations to drive forward the mission.
00:53:19
Speaker
Absolutely. That's at the heart of our One Million Women campaign for sure. But what are you most excited about for this next year? Here we are at the beginning of the year. I know it's March, but it's the beginning of the year. What have you got on your agenda in the short term?
00:53:34
Speaker
Well, personally, I'm very excited to visit some of our program countries. I'm off to Kenya next month, and I hope to get to South Africa a bit later in the year. And I think potentially with our partners, DHL Express, who you mentioned earlier, because I think it's so important to be able to see, touch and feel the impact of our work. And so I'm really looking forward to meeting some of the women entrepreneurs and the local partners that the foundation works with.
00:54:02
Speaker
I'm excited to have joined at this time as we look to scale our work to reach 1 million women entrepreneurs by 2030. As you said, the foundation just launched its new strategy last year and I'm excited to work with the team as we start to map out what that really looks like and begin to hone in on what's genuinely going to make a difference
00:54:25
Speaker
in the lives of women entrepreneurs and therefore how we build the pathways and partnerships to enable us to reach 1 million women entrepreneurs by 2030. We certainly can't do it alone and so looking forward to creating that partnership map to scale.
00:54:44
Speaker
Well, let's get on with it then. Yeah, absolutely. And on that note then, Cherie, I shall bring us to a close. I mean, this has been a really fun podcast experience. I hope you've enjoyed it. I absolutely have. Thank you so much for your time and thank you for everything that you do for the Cherie Blair Foundation for Women and for women across the world. We can only do anything if we do it together.
00:55:09
Speaker
Absolutely. It's been an honor to have you on the show, Cherie. Thank you. Thank you.
00:55:15
Speaker
And that's a wrap on another inspiring episode of the Charity CEO podcast. I hope you found the conversation thought-provoking and uplifting. I certainly did. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd be thrilled if you could share the joy by leaving us a review on your favourite podcast platform. Tag us on Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. We'd love hearing from our listeners. To stay up to date with all our latest episodes, be sure to hit that subscribe button on your podcast app.
00:55:41
Speaker
And for even more resources and show details, head on over to our website, thecharityceo.com. There, you'll find information on past episodes and a place to submit ideas for future guests. Thank you for listening.