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Ep 41. Anna Josse, Founder & CEO Prism the Gift Fund: The Joy of Giving, without the hassle of admin!
94 Plays1 year ago
“Gift Aid, yes people know about it (but) they still dont understand it… there is about £750m unclaimed in Gift Aid every year, split between smaller charities unable to claim or dont have the skills to do it and higher rate tax-payers not really understanding … how they could be claiming an additional 25% on the gross (donation) in their tax returns.”
Our guest today is Anna Josse, Founder and CEO of Prism the Gift Fund.
Prism is a UK-based charity that is changing the face of philanthropy. Prism’s mission is to increase the flow of funds into the charitable sector, through creating efficiencies in the process of giving.
Prism offers a unique and straight-forward alternative to setting up a charitable foundation, enabling donors to give tax-efficiently without the administrative hassle. Since its inception in 2005, Prism has facilitated over £550m in donations to thousands of charities across the world.
In this episode, we dive into the different services offered by Prism, including Donor Advised Funds and Collective Funds. We explore how their innovative approach is revolutionising mid to high level giving in the UK, and also discuss the rise of the Philanthropy Paradox.
Anna shares her insights on how the UK charity sector can learn from the American approach to philanthropy, as well as her vision for making philanthropy accessible to all.
Recorded February 2023.
Guest Biography
Anna Josse is the Founder and CEO of Prism the Gift Fund (Prism). Prism’s aim is to increase the flow of funds into the charity sector.
Previously, she worked in the high-tech industry and set up the Yazam EU office as Director of Investor Relations and set up and ran the British arm of a USA based charity, the New Israel Fund. Anna also acts as a trustee and advisor for several charities. She is the director and shareholder of the financial services company Regent Capital that specialises in investment products and services to UK-based HNW investors
Links
https://prismthegiftfund.co.uk/
This episode is sponsored by Society https://www.society-search.com/
Our guest today is Anna Josse, Founder and CEO of Prism the Gift Fund.
Prism is a UK-based charity that is changing the face of philanthropy. Prism’s mission is to increase the flow of funds into the charitable sector, through creating efficiencies in the process of giving.
Prism offers a unique and straight-forward alternative to setting up a charitable foundation, enabling donors to give tax-efficiently without the administrative hassle. Since its inception in 2005, Prism has facilitated over £550m in donations to thousands of charities across the world.
In this episode, we dive into the different services offered by Prism, including Donor Advised Funds and Collective Funds. We explore how their innovative approach is revolutionising mid to high level giving in the UK, and also discuss the rise of the Philanthropy Paradox.
Anna shares her insights on how the UK charity sector can learn from the American approach to philanthropy, as well as her vision for making philanthropy accessible to all.
Recorded February 2023.
Guest Biography
Anna Josse is the Founder and CEO of Prism the Gift Fund (Prism). Prism’s aim is to increase the flow of funds into the charity sector.
Previously, she worked in the high-tech industry and set up the Yazam EU office as Director of Investor Relations and set up and ran the British arm of a USA based charity, the New Israel Fund. Anna also acts as a trustee and advisor for several charities. She is the director and shareholder of the financial services company Regent Capital that specialises in investment products and services to UK-based HNW investors
Links
https://prismthegiftfund.co.uk/
This episode is sponsored by Society https://www.society-search.com/
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Transcript
Donor-Advised Funds: Simplifying Philanthropy
00:00:00
Speaker
we're responsible for the due diligence, compliance, governance, and the beauty of a donor of ICE fund is it allows the individual to have the joy of giving without the worry of the compliance. And given the regulation today and how difficult it is to navigate the rules of the charity commission, the world of donor of ICE funds are growing.
Charity CEO Podcast Season Launch
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome to an exciting new season of the Charity CEO podcast, where we bring you the stories and insights of remarkable charity leaders who are changing the world for the better. We talk to the people who run nonprofits, the movers and shakers, who are driving positive change in this space, inspiring you to take bold action and make a difference.
00:00:50
Speaker
To all our listeners across the globe, I am thrilled to have you with us. We've received amazing feedback from listeners in over 42 countries, including the UK, US, Australia, Canada and India. Your support and engagement is what makes this community so special. To all of you who pour your hearts and souls into making the world a better place through your work in the charity and non-profit sectors, thank you.
Interview with Anna Joss, CEO of Prism
00:01:15
Speaker
I'm Divya O'Connor and here's the show.
00:01:19
Speaker
I am thrilled to kick off season five with a truly inspiring guest, Anna Joss. Anna is the founder and CEO of Prism The Gift Fund, a UK-based charity that is changing the face of philanthropy. Prism offers a unique and straightforward alternative to setting up a charitable foundation, enabling donors to give tax efficiently without the administrative hassle. Since its inception in 2005, Prism has facilitated over 550 million pounds in donations
00:01:47
Speaker
to thousands of charities across the world. In this episode, we dive into the different services offered by Prism and explore how their innovative approach is revolutionising mid to high level giving in the UK.
Prism's Impact on Philanthropy
00:02:00
Speaker
Anna shares her insights on how the UK charity sector can learn from the American approach to philanthropy, as well as her vision for democratising giving and making philanthropy accessible to all.
00:02:12
Speaker
This episode is sponsored by Society. Society is an executive search firm that partners with responsible businesses and purpose-driven organizations to strengthen diversity and inclusion across senior leadership and board appointments. As a certified B Corp, they believe that all organizations can have a positive social impact and that careers should have purpose and meaning. Society's goal is to change the world for the better, one appointment at a time.
00:02:39
Speaker
visit their website society-search.com for further details.
Getting to Know Anna Joss
00:02:45
Speaker
Now, on with the show.
00:02:49
Speaker
Hi, Anna. Welcome to season five of the Charity CEO podcast. Great to have you on the show with us today. Thank you. Hello. Good afternoon. Delighted to be with you. Well, it's a pleasure to have you on. And keeping to our popular icebreaker format, we always start the show with five icebreaker questions. So, Anna, if you're ready, we can get started with those. Absolutely. Far away. Question one. What is your professional superpower? Big brown eyes.
00:03:20
Speaker
Brilliant, I love that. Question two, what hobby or activity do you turn to when you want to disconnect from work? Slalom mono water skiing. Wow. 12 minutes on the water for each session and you have to be totally focused so it blocks out anything else. I can imagine, how often do you get to do that? Three times a week from kind of May to October.
00:03:49
Speaker
Oh, brilliant. Question three, what is the worst advice or worst recommendation that you've had in your line of work? I don't know if there's a worst specific item, but what's clear is people who don't have relevant experience
00:04:10
Speaker
giving advice, which it could be legally, banking, regulation. And unless you
Principles of Philanthropy
00:04:19
Speaker
have an expert, this is what I've learned, all that advice can be really, really inappropriate or just not spot on enough. Question four, who is the philanthropist that you admire the most and why?
00:04:36
Speaker
I think I have been asked this before and I don't think I can give you a single philanthropist because I think different people have had different impacts. Maybe the rules of the Bible that start off giving a guidance over philanthropy and tithing and how much one should be giving.
Hypothetical Interview with Moses
00:05:01
Speaker
whether one believes in God or not. It's either God or man-written Bible, there we go. So more about the principles. Exactly, the principles. So Anna, this is a question that I ask all the guests. If you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world, dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? Maybe Moses. And what made him persevere? Why?
The Inception of Prism
00:05:33
Speaker
Hannah, you are the founder of Prism, the gift fund. Tell us what Prism is all about, its origin story, and why you set it up.
00:05:42
Speaker
So in the 90s, I set up the British arm of an American Israeli charity and learned to look from the Americans and saw donor advised funds in America. And in the early 2000s, I did about a year and a half's worth of research and looked at the market and looked at prospective donors and felt there was an opportunity to create
00:06:10
Speaker
I wasn't sure at that point exactly what it was going to be, but a structure servicing the mid-upper end of the market in the administration of their giving. And I think at that point, there was a big government and still is bureaucratic outfit, but there wasn't anyone really servicing that mid-upper end of the market. And it became clear that
00:06:36
Speaker
there was a need.
Prism’s Donor-Advised and Collective Funds
00:06:37
Speaker
So it was really learning from America and seeing the gaps here. So I understand Anna that Prism offers three core services each aimed at making charitable giving more efficient. You've already mentioned one of these donor advised funds and I know you also offer collective funds
00:06:55
Speaker
and Foundation Administration. Tell us a bit more about each of these services, how they drive efficiencies, and perhaps giving a couple of examples of each. So a Donut-Viced fund is a terminology, again, it's come from America, where there are almost $200 billion of assets under management in Donut-Viced funds compared to 2 billion sterling in the UK. So we're much smaller, but they're developing and growing. And what it means
00:07:25
Speaker
is rather than an individual create their own grant-making foundation, they open an account, a donor-advised fund, where they can get different tax reliefs. So in this country, there are tax reliefs around gifts of cash and shares and property, art. So you open an account and you can brand it. So it can be called the Joe Bloggs Foundation. It appears like a foundation, but it's a donor-advised fund.
00:07:52
Speaker
and the individual suggests where they want to gift anywhere, certainly a prison's case, anywhere around the world. So we're responsible for the due diligence, compliance, governance, and the beauty of a donor advice fund is it allows the individual
00:08:08
Speaker
to have the joy of giving
Swift Responses to Crises
00:08:10
Speaker
without the worry of the compliance. And given the regulation today and how difficult it is to navigate the rules of the charity commission, the world of donor advised funds are growing. So that is for an individual. What Prism then created in addition in 2015 was the collective fund. And that grew from one of the banks referred a tragedy
00:08:37
Speaker
where one of their employees babies had been killed and a group of friends and family wanted to create a memorial fund. They were in no position to create their own operational charity and so opened this concept under prison where a group of people could tax effectively make donations in
00:08:55
Speaker
and we would distribute out. And then in June 2015, the wealth food program knocked on our door and said, we need a UK vehicle. We're not a UK entity. We're owned by the UN in Rome. We need a vehicle through which to tax effectively raise money in time for the world rugby in October 2015. And ITV was sponsoring it. The government were matching it pound for pound. And so the collective fund notion really began. And then the refugee crisis in Europe broke.
00:09:25
Speaker
and lots of groups found their way to prison. So the collective fund is where you could be, there's always a founder with a cause or a project. Sometimes we incubate, so a group may decide ultimately they want to be their own operational charity, but that can take up to two years today to create between the charity commission and the banking system.
00:09:50
Speaker
So we incubate them until they're ready. Or indeed some never leave, like Choose Love is the biggest refugee group in Europe and operates under prison. And in the last week since the Turkish earthquake, they have distributed over $2 million to 19 partners.
00:10:08
Speaker
So they're rapid. I mean, and that's the beauty also of a collective fund. It can respond very quickly. In COVID, we had a great project called Kitchens with Compassion. It's a chef called Leon Arts, who was operating out of
Keys to Prism's Success
00:10:23
Speaker
the kitchens when Wembley Stadium was closed.
00:10:25
Speaker
and made 625,000 meals for the NHS and vulnerable in that first year, but operating under PRISM. So we'd get a phone call saying, we're delivering ring tons of tomatoes to your office. And I say, no, no, no, you're delivering tomatoes to Wembley and we're paying the bill. So that enabled him just to get going. He has since left the regulation, the oversight of PRISM, and he's teamed up with the Felix Project, which is also a good story. They're all about food.
00:10:55
Speaker
So the whole principle of PRISM and what sets us apart in the market is, well, A, the collective fund operation, but B, we have an ethos of efficient, swift entrepreneurial can do. We sometimes have very complex gifts coming in, very complex distributions going out.
00:11:20
Speaker
But if we can do it within the law, we do. We sometimes have to bring in very smart charity lawyers to help navigate a grant agreement. But that whole ethos of can do, and by nature of the kind of clients we have, they have complex lives and private bankers and private lawyers, and so we're like their private philanthropy. I love that you
00:11:42
Speaker
said there, Anna, that this principle of enabling the joy of giving without the worry of compliance and having a really can-do attitude has been core to your ethos. And I was going to ask you what you feel has been key to prison success, because I know that since inception, you've facilitated over £550 million of donation income, which is just incredible. Yes, thank you. Thank you so much.
00:12:09
Speaker
Two things about Prism, and again, in my journey of what I've learned from building businesses, is that Prism's objective from the start remains the same today. It works, it's very clear. Sometimes people have said to me, but why don't you also, you're so good at compliance, why don't you offer that to other charities? Is that because I don't do that? Prism knows what it's doing and does it extremely well for Prism.
00:12:39
Speaker
So I have to be very clear about what we do and what we don't do. It sometimes can be quite attractive to look at other objectives, but that's part of its success, is that we're very clear who we are and what we do, and we do it very well.
Evolution of Donor-Advised Funds
00:12:56
Speaker
And that personal service
00:12:58
Speaker
is absolutely key as well. So very swift and responsive. So every client has a relationship manager. They get to know. They are at the end of a telephone. They're at the end of an email. We will try and get certainly UK distributions out within 48 hours, assuming things are very straightforward. They're not always straightforward even into the UK.
00:13:21
Speaker
and overseas will take longer and is often up to how effective the overseas charity is in responding and giving us what we need to be able to release payment. But it's the personal nature and efficient service that is key.
00:13:37
Speaker
really playing to your strengths. And as you say there, Anna, knowing what those strengths are is absolutely key. So it's been almost 20 years since Prism was set up in 2005. What do you see as having changed since you first set it up? I mean, both with respect to philanthropic giving and the UK charity sector more broadly, what's changed in that time?
UK Tax Relief Complexities
00:13:59
Speaker
The concept of a donor advised fund is still unknown, but is much better known. So the donor advised fund community has grown. There are quite a few of us in the market and we have been banging that drum for a long time and slowly more and more people are aware of it. The concept of philanthropy itself has changed. So 15, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, certainly there wouldn't be
00:14:28
Speaker
any banker that would push it to a client. It just wasn't part of their narrative. Today, all the banks are on some kind of philanthropic bandwagon. They don't quite understand what that bandwagon is. They haven't worked it out yet, some more so than others, but they're all grappling with it. I mean, partly because they want to make money from it. I mean, that's my cynicism or the reality. I don't think suddenly they all believe in philanthropy as
00:14:55
Speaker
something they need to push their own benefit. But it doesn't really matter what the motivation is. They are considering it. In fact, the FCA, the financial regulator, there's been a lot of discussions. I'm part of various groups that for 20 years has been trying to push
00:15:13
Speaker
the education of financial regulators should philanthropy be part of their education, so they have to talk about it and offer it to a client. So that is still in discussion, but is more so in discussion. And the other thing that actually hasn't changed,
00:15:31
Speaker
are the tax reliefs that no one still has a clue about or understands. So that's been a constant that really has not changed. I mean, gift aid, yes, people know about it, they still don't understand it. As high rate taxpayers, there is about 750 million pounds unclaimed in gift aid every year, split between smaller charities unable to claim or don't have the skills to do it and high rate taxpayers not really understanding
00:15:58
Speaker
what it means and how they could be claiming an additional 25% on the gross in their tax returns. And this whole notion that philanthropy is very personal, so if they haven't produced receipts to their accountants, our accountants think they haven't given anything and don't ask for it, and so it just gets lost. And that's, by the way, the beauty of a donor-rized fund, because what we do
00:16:21
Speaker
Once a year, we give a summary tax receipt to our clients, which will show any gift into PRISM and summarizes the cash or the shares or whatever it is, one piece of paper to hand to their accountant for their tax return so that nothing is lost. It's very clear what they've given.
00:16:43
Speaker
So that money goes to the end charity who is owed the money and it doesn't get stuck with the
Call for Government Role in Philanthropy
00:16:50
Speaker
tax man. I mean 750 million getting stuck with the tax man when that can be spent in the charitable sector is a huge amount. Well exactly. So with a donor advised fund when the donor makes a gift of cash in, we claim the gift aid.
00:17:05
Speaker
So A, we ensure that's done and that money goes into the client's charitable pot. But in addition, to then gift out more, but in addition, he gets that piece of paper from us. So to make it up, if he's given 10 million, his pot then has 12.5 million in, he then claims in his tax return 25% on 12.5. So that's what he is getting back in his tax return if he is a high rate taxpayer, if he's eligible.
00:17:35
Speaker
if they are not he. But it just gets lost in the paperwork. So I have had discussions with endless different governments and philanthropy about tax reliefs and that they're too complex and could we change them and in America it's much simpler you deduct its source when you make a gift.
00:17:55
Speaker
And philanthropy is just at the bottom of a pile and increasingly in the last few years with all the challenges in the world and in the UK, it really is at the bottom of the pile. There's a group of us that we've talked about why don't they create a minister for philanthropy so there is someone permanent that we can all talk to.
00:18:13
Speaker
And by the end of a four year term, when you may be eventually talking to a government, the government changes and you begin the conversation again. I mean, this has literally been a pattern in my lifetime of working in this industry. So I don't know if it will change, but the reality is and what the UK is facing with government cuts is who's going to fill that gap and actually
British Paradox in Donations
00:18:42
Speaker
it probably is going to be major donors and high net worth individuals. So maybe the government can't ignore this conversation. Yes, indeed. Although given that we've just had yet another new Charities Minister in the last few weeks, it is yet to be seen to what extent the government does engage in this really important conversation. But talking a bit more about philanthropy Anna and perhaps some broader cynicism around
00:19:09
Speaker
this whole tax relief structure. I know that Dr. Beth Threes from the Centre for Philanthropy published some research a couple of years ago that was commissioned by Phryssum on the philanthropy paradox. Tell us about that. Yes. So we created a white paper and we used Natzen to conduct a survey.
00:19:31
Speaker
And one of the really fascinating points that came out of that survey, I mean, we wanted to test did people know about donor advised funds? No, they didn't. Did people know about the tax reliefs? No, they didn't.
Learning from American Charities
00:19:42
Speaker
But one of the more striking outcomes results was that people liked donations, but really didn't like donors. So there is that notion that we like your money, but we don't
00:19:57
Speaker
like you. It's a very British I think attitude and philosophy. I don't think you would probably find the same results if you did that in America. There is a different attitude and a different attitude to major donors and philanthropy there.
00:20:16
Speaker
It's much more open, it's much more public. We are quite understated here. America a lot isn't right, but perhaps around this more openness or certainly open to asking and much more direct asking, I think there are lessons to be learned. Yes, you mentioned about the fact that you've learnt a lot from the Americans and again here in terms of the British attitude versus attitudes in America. And what are perhaps
00:20:46
Speaker
one or two things that you think we in the UK charity sector can adopt from our American friends and colleagues. I mean you mentioned one there in terms of being open to asking, do you have any other thoughts or advice on that? Yes, I loved a lot about fundraising from the Americans and about having targets, visiting your donors, listening to them, getting to know them
00:21:11
Speaker
And what is sometimes quite shocking in this country, if you look at the budgets of a lot of very large charities raising 300 million, 500 million, they've been historically very good at direct grants, very good at direct mail, but
Charity Boards in Fundraising
00:21:28
Speaker
major donors, perhaps it's eight, nine percent of their budget comes from major donors. So they don't know how to ask them for money. They haven't navigated. They haven't built up those relationships. And I do, by default, educate charities around this topic.
00:21:45
Speaker
And they seem fearful and their boards are fearful. So in America, when you're a trustee, you have a responsibility to give, you have a responsibility to raise money. People are not embarrassed. They seem to be embarrassed here. And I often say to an individual or a fundraiser or a trustee, you're not raising money for yourself, you're raising money for a very good cause.
00:22:08
Speaker
because you're associated with it. You clearly care about it. So what is wrong with building up a network and asking other people? And it's tough. People seem to think, well, the money will fall from the sky and wave your magic wand. It's really tough. It doesn't work like that. It can take years to build up your pyramid. But they need to do that. So again, in America, you will notice the whole concept of university, alumni,
00:22:36
Speaker
is very strong and that happens the moment you walk into a university there. You're tapped so that when you graduate you are an alumni. I mean here they're getting better at it, some universities are better than others but it can take years and years and years and years till they get around to it.
00:22:53
Speaker
And then the tax reliefs here, as I've highlighted, I think we actually have some very good tax reliefs, but they're quite complex. And most charities are unable to navigate them sufficiently to be able to offer them. So you'll find lots of charities
00:23:13
Speaker
don't really understand sharegiving, aren't aware of perhaps a gift of a property and what that may mean.
Staff and Board Dynamics in Fundraising
00:23:19
Speaker
So they need again more education around just offering it to even around gift aid. You will see on lots of literature of charities gift aid here and they talk a little bit about gift aid, but they never mention the second half of the equation.
00:23:38
Speaker
whereby if you are a higher rate taxpayer, you could be eligible then to claim the additional 25% on the gross. But if they were to mention it in their literature, maybe there wouldn't be as much as 750 million unclaimed in gift aid, and they would be educating those individuals. I mean, I've very, very sophisticated individuals, philanthropists who weren't aware of it.
00:24:05
Speaker
or they know of gift aid, but they've just somehow passed them by or they haven't done it or haven't really thought about it, they haven't really understood it properly.
00:24:13
Speaker
It's really interesting what you're sharing there, Anna, and I do agree with you in terms of the fundraising fundamentals. It's all about building the relationship first. And I do wonder sometimes in the UK charities, a lot of the onus tends to fall on the individual fundraiser within the organisation, and often the structures aren't there around them to enable them to
00:24:36
Speaker
be able to deliver those big gifts. So what role do you think the boards have in UK charities? I mean what more can boards do? I know this is a often debated topic about do trustees fundraise or not, how can we bring sort of those resources much more aligned towards this? I mean that's an interesting question and I think
00:25:01
Speaker
it varies massively from charity to charity and the lay staff relationship is very complex. So I've been involved with charities where it's absolutely the staff that run it and power it and are responsible for raising the money absolutely and some of the trustees will be there offering
00:25:25
Speaker
compliance or governance or some aspect that is relevant and helpful or academic. And then I've seen other boards where the staff fundraisers, like an administrator, they're just supporting those trustees who are so powerful and so wealthy that they have incredible ability and leverage and are very confident in using that leverage.
00:25:50
Speaker
and inviting their friends and asking their friends. I mean, we once administered a fundraising dinner where the person running this dinner was honoring a trustee of the charity who served for many years and was stepping down. And they were involved in retail.
00:26:08
Speaker
And the person running this charity dinner just wrote to lots of kind of suppliers in Asia, Hong Kong, who had no relationship to the charity whatsoever, but had a relationship for many years with the individual who'd provided a very good lifestyle for them through the business relationship and just said, I'm sure you would love to support the charity and we look forward to receiving your donation. And sort of five to $10,000 donations came in.
00:26:38
Speaker
So they knew they had benefited professionally and yes, this was pressure of a different sort and they had to bring in that money. So that was the individual. It's really, really complex and I think
00:26:54
Speaker
There isn't one way of making it work. And sometimes in America, to say you can only join a board if you're gonna give $25,000, well, that's also exclusive and that isn't necessarily right. And the public nature of America and your name will be in shining lights in some hallway because you've given half a million. There's a lot of ugliness too that isn't good. So it's navigating for each charity what is right.
Prism's Future Goals
00:27:22
Speaker
But lots of charities still have to build that correct board as well. And if you don't have someone with money or access to money, it's pretty hard. You do need at least one to open up some doors to help. It's complex. It's a complex application.
00:27:43
Speaker
Yes, and I think ultimately, as you say, that it is all about the ask and it's about those networks, about those relationships. Yes, totally, totally.
00:27:53
Speaker
And as I said, they can take years and years to really develop and build. There isn't a quick fix or a quick win for anyone. Indeed. So Anna, tell us a bit about the future plans for Prism. I know your 20th birthday is approaching in a couple of years' time. What do you have in store? We want to look at what has been the impact and output of Prism. So that 20th anniversary is going to be a celebration of that.
00:28:23
Speaker
and really look at some of the interesting charities and projects and collective funds that have all benefited. And we are going to actually do a podcast series leading up to that celebration and looking at some of the donors, some of their stories. And so it will be a whole combination
00:28:44
Speaker
As you kindly said at the beginning, we're heading to, I don't know, probably 530, 550 million of donation income since inception. And the board has strategic sessions once every year of years. And in June they said, oh, do you think you can get to a billion by 2025?
00:29:05
Speaker
And that was before we had a cost of living crisis. So I said, well, I don't know that could be a little bit challenging. But that's one of the goals, to just continue the growth and output and distribution because that's prison's objective to get more money into the sector. And
00:29:25
Speaker
In order to do that, obviously we need to grow some of our systems which we're looking to do and CRM systems and develop them further and staffing, all of which is all in place. And then it really will be a celebration of that impact and output and great responsiveness.
Anna Joss on Starting Prism
00:29:45
Speaker
Very sadly, as I look back at every February in the last few years, there's been an emergency.
00:29:52
Speaker
COVID, Ukraine, Turkey, always at the same time. And so we move into gear very quickly, not thinking, not expecting, and suddenly we need to do that. And so we challenge ourselves every year as to what that may mean and what we need to do. And looking back then Anna to 2005, when you first started PRISM, is there any particular advice that you would give to yourself on day one of starting that journey?
00:30:22
Speaker
I think when I started, I never imagined it would have grown to the size that it is. And I think there is another lesson that I've learned in that journey, sometimes when I see people with enormous wealth trying to create things and they start at the top of the tower.
00:30:42
Speaker
and with this swicious website and with bells ringing and yet the bricks aren't in place. So they've started at the top but there's no foundation. And inevitably these structures pretty much come crumbling down because they haven't built their client base or they haven't and they get very angry half the time. But why hasn't it worked? Created a beautiful website, a great concept.
00:31:09
Speaker
And the lesson is you've got to build your bricks. You've got to build your foundations as you build a business and operation. And, you know, it took time to build Prism and to build a network and people to do the due diligence on Prism and feel comfortable with Prism. And it's a bit like fundraising. You win some, you don't win them all, but it takes time. And it's having the belief
00:31:35
Speaker
and the confidence and accepting that you don't win them all. And when you don't, it's disheartening. And when you do and you get to the next step in the brick or the next level, you can really see achievements. And I guess seeing those achievements is easier over 20 years than it is over five years because you can really see a span, a time span and a trajectory.
Anna Joss's Background and Motivation
00:32:03
Speaker
So it's having patience and having belief in oneself and not being disheartened. But that all comes with, I think, experience and wisdom, which people forget, but it actually counts, not just I'm not talking about me, just in general.
00:32:20
Speaker
It counts for a lot. Indeed. I'm always fascinated to hear people's journey, and yes, in terms of how you build the bricks for your own road and your own path. Anna, tell us a bit more about your own story arc that has brought you to where you are today. You mentioned about starting out, setting up the British arm of a US-Israeli charity. Tell us what has motivated you along the way to where you are today.
00:32:46
Speaker
As a teenager, I was involved in leadership roles in youth movements and then at university as well. So I think and my family probably shared with me responsibility for giving. So I think I probably always felt that. And in my 20s, a friend had unfortunately was killed in a car crash and I helped set up a leadership program in his name.
00:33:14
Speaker
And as a layperson, not as a full job, but spending so much time on it that I thought maybe I should move across professionally. And that's when I first set up the bridge arm of this charity, but then moved into high tech because that was bubbling away in the late 90s, early 2000. And I so wanted to be part of that.
00:33:36
Speaker
and actually loved it. It was fun. It was different. I mean, the truth was I was involved with the company that put seed funding into internet related startups and the internet just wasn't quick enough and developed enough to support a lot of these ideas, but it was fun and different. I then got involved in a financial regulated company on the back of that, but my passion remained in philanthropy.
00:33:59
Speaker
So that's why I really went back to, again, as a layperson, not professionally at that point, just looking at these structures in America and what is it and what could it be. And then said to my still now, my business partner Gideon, I said, look, I've got this idea. They call it in America, Donor of Eyes Fund. And we were sitting by the fireplace of a hotel in town. And
00:34:25
Speaker
This hotel happens to be dagging our office now, quite bizarrely, but he just said, yep.
00:34:32
Speaker
I think there's a go in this. Let's start this charity together.
Prism’s Focus on Mid-Upper Market Donors
00:34:36
Speaker
And I'm always grateful to Anne-Marie Piper, the charitable partner of Farrah's, who's actually about to retire, who I'd worked with before PRISM, who said, I'm going to help set up PRISM and help you navigate the charity commission, who even then messed up. Let's not get on to the charity commission and what they need to do to sort themselves out.
00:34:58
Speaker
Anne-Marie said, just wait, just wait. And we waited and we waited and we heard nothing except an acknowledgement within two weeks of the application, because I called it PRISM, the charitable gift fund. And they said, you can't have the word charitable in the title of your charity. So it became PRISM, the gift fund. And then we had nothing for months and months. And Anne-Marie said, it's time we made that call. And they said, I'm so sorry, we moved our offices from London to Taunton.
00:35:28
Speaker
everything's lost along the end floor and then flies. Please begin again. They had no record of anything. Oh dear, I hope the charity commission has improved somewhat since then.
00:35:41
Speaker
Well, so that was how you got started. You got a second application in and eventually that got approved and prison, the gift fund was born. Exactly. And off we went. And, you know, we've worked really, really, really hard over the years in developing relationships, knocking on doors. We do a lot of lunch and learns for the private client intermediary sector to really educate them about philanthropy.
00:36:08
Speaker
about the tax around it, about the beautiful benefits of a donor revised fund compared to creating one's own entity today. So it's hard graft, but I guess the joy today is one can see the need
00:36:26
Speaker
and that that objective of the service and the administration remains exactly the same and a clear need for it as well.
Encouraging Philanthropic Participation
00:36:37
Speaker
You started the conversation Anna saying that Prism was really targeting the mid to upper end of the donor market as opposed to going to the uber wealthy and it sounds like that was quite a deliberate strategic focus.
00:36:51
Speaker
Well, I mean, the minimum to stop prism is really about £150,000. Lots of our donors are giving hundreds of thousands of multimillions. So if you're gifting multimillions into a charity, does that make you uber wealthy? I mean, yes, we have a lot of billionaires, as well as millionaires. People used to say, is there a level at which it makes sense to create your own?
00:37:15
Speaker
grant making foundation. And I don't think there is any more, because I think unless you have staff, highly trained trustees, knowledgeable trustees, good lawyers to navigate the charity commission, why do you want to enter all of that?
00:37:32
Speaker
There is no reason. I mean, our collective fund mechanism is very open, very public. They're all listed. They have their own websites as opposed to the donor advised fund that's very private. In the collective fund, as I said, we sometimes incubate people because it takes so long to create a charity in the banking system to create a bank account.
00:37:52
Speaker
So as an example, Mission 44, which is the Lewis Hamilton's charity, incubated, operated under prison for a couple of years because it took so long. He has an amazing, incredible team working on Mission 44, and that makes total sense for them to be their own entity and own charity with a very, very clear focus on mission. But it doesn't make sense necessarily for everyone. So you can be uber wealthy and still not want to create your own entity.
00:38:22
Speaker
So the essence in terms of the core service that you offer is for everyone who wants to give. It is. To a certain level. It is. Exactly. Exactly.
00:38:33
Speaker
Anna, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you today. I always end the show by asking my guests what is one thing you would like listeners to take away from this conversation. Give us one final thought or reflection in being a philanthropy advisor. I really hope people feel the responsibility to give at whatever level is appropriate and suitable for them.
00:38:56
Speaker
because relying on just someone else or just the government isn't sufficient anymore. So please, everyone should stand up and feel that responsibility and think about giving. Well, thank you Anna for sharing your insights and perspectives with us. Thank you for being guests on the show. Thank you so much for inviting me. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.
00:39:22
Speaker
And that's a wrap on another inspiring episode of the Charity CEO podcast. I hope you found the conversation thought-provoking and uplifting. I certainly did. If you enjoyed the episode, we'd be thrilled if you could share the joy by leaving us a five-star review on your favourite podcast platform. Tag us on Twitter, LinkedIn or Instagram. We'd love hearing from our listeners.
00:39:43
Speaker
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