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Ep 19. Baroness Delyth Morgan, CEO Breast Cancer Now: Achieving more through Collaboration
57 Plays4 years ago
“Providing support for today and hope for tomorrow.”
Baroness Delyth Morgan is the CEO of Breast Cancer Now.
Delyth has been leading the charge in the breast cancer space for many years. She is widely credited with achieving consolidation in the sector, having presided over the merger of Breast Cancer Campaign and Breakthrough Breast Cancer in 2015 and the more recent merger of Breast Cancer Now and Breast Cancer Care in 2019.
We discuss the significant progress that has been made in research, treatment and care for breast cancer patients. However, there is still a way to go before Breast Cancer Now can achieve its vision of a future where everyone with breast cancer lives.
We talk about the impact of Brexit on the medical research sector in the UK; and how pandemic-induced delays in cancer diagnosis and treatment, is costing lives.
This conversation is full of Delyth’s wisdom and insights, as she shares her experiences and advice on leadership, on influencing, on collaborating and most important of all, on not giving up hope.
Recorded April 2021.
Guest Biography
Delyth Morgan is the Chief Executive of Breast Cancer Now.
Delyth spent 10 years at Breakthrough Breast Cancer, as the charity’s first Chief Executive, from 1996, before which she worked at Shelter, Workplace Nurseries Campaign and Asthma UK.
After becoming a life peer she was appointed to Government in 2007, when she served as Children’s Minister for the Department of Children Schools and Families, Minister for Intellectual Property and Quality at the Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills and Government spokesperson for the Department of Work and Pensions in the House of Lords.
In 2011, Delyth returned to the field of breast cancer at the helm of Breast Cancer Campaign before going on to become Chief Executive of Breast Cancer Now formed when the charity first merged with Breakthrough Breast Cancer back in spring 2015.
Delyth currently sits in the House of Lords as an independent peer. She is a Fellow of University College London and Honorary Fellow of the Institute of Cancer Research and Cardiff University. She is Patron of Pancreatic Cancer UK and The Sheila McKechnie Foundation and Honorary President of Cancer 52. She also chairs the National Cancer Research Institute (NCRI).
Links
https://breastcancernow.org/about-us
Baroness Delyth Morgan is the CEO of Breast Cancer Now.
Delyth has been leading the charge in the breast cancer space for many years. She is widely credited with achieving consolidation in the sector, having presided over the merger of Breast Cancer Campaign and Breakthrough Breast Cancer in 2015 and the more recent merger of Breast Cancer Now and Breast Cancer Care in 2019.
We discuss the significant progress that has been made in research, treatment and care for breast cancer patients. However, there is still a way to go before Breast Cancer Now can achieve its vision of a future where everyone with breast cancer lives.
We talk about the impact of Brexit on the medical research sector in the UK; and how pandemic-induced delays in cancer diagnosis and treatment, is costing lives.
This conversation is full of Delyth’s wisdom and insights, as she shares her experiences and advice on leadership, on influencing, on collaborating and most important of all, on not giving up hope.
Recorded April 2021.
Guest Biography
Delyth Morgan is the Chief Executive of Breast Cancer Now.
Delyth spent 10 years at Breakthrough Breast Cancer, as the charity’s first Chief Executive, from 1996, before which she worked at Shelter, Workplace Nurseries Campaign and Asthma UK.
After becoming a life peer she was appointed to Government in 2007, when she served as Children’s Minister for the Department of Children Schools and Families, Minister for Intellectual Property and Quality at the Department of Innovation, Universities and Skills and Government spokesperson for the Department of Work and Pensions in the House of Lords.
In 2011, Delyth returned to the field of breast cancer at the helm of Breast Cancer Campaign before going on to become Chief Executive of Breast Cancer Now formed when the charity first merged with Breakthrough Breast Cancer back in spring 2015.
Delyth currently sits in the House of Lords as an independent peer. She is a Fellow of University College London and Honorary Fellow of the Institute of Cancer Research and Cardiff University. She is Patron of Pancreatic Cancer UK and The Sheila McKechnie Foundation and Honorary President of Cancer 52. She also chairs the National Cancer Research Institute (NCRI).
Links
https://breastcancernow.org/about-us
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Transcript
Supporting Beneficiaries Today and Tomorrow
00:00:00
Speaker
It's that simple mantra of providing support for today and hope for tomorrow. And it's about how we can achieve more together for our beneficiaries and keeping that relentless focus on what it is our beneficiaries want from us. And a lot of the time I think that's about us providing hope, providing
00:00:24
Speaker
some really really thoughtful thoughts on the future and options for how we can make this world a better place that others can get behind.
Season 2 Introduction with Olivia O'Connor
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:01:00
Speaker
I'm Olivia O'Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.
Interview with Baroness Delath Morgan, CEO of Breast Cancer Now
00:01:17
Speaker
My guest today is Baroness Delath Morgan, CEO of Breast Cancer Now. It is a real treat to engage with someone so experienced and accomplished, and I had the added honour of this being Delath's first ever podcast interview. Delath is widely credited with achieving consolidation and collaboration in the breast cancer space.
00:01:37
Speaker
having presided over not just one, but two major charity mergers. We talk about the significant progress that has been made in research, treatment and care, but that there is still a way to go towards creating a future where everyone with breast cancer lives.
00:01:52
Speaker
Delith has some fantastic advice on leadership, on influencing, on not giving up, and of course on mergers and collaboration. This conversation is full of golden nuggets of insight and inspiration, or perhaps I should say rose or pink-tinted golden nuggets. I hope you enjoyed the show.
Leadership and Collaboration Insights
00:02:14
Speaker
Well, hello, Delith. Welcome to the show. I'm so pleased to have you with us today. I'm very pleased to be here. Excellent. So you may be aware that I like to start the show with an ice break around and I have five questions for you. So if you're ready, we can get started. I'm ready as I'll ever be. Question one. As a child, what did you dream of being when you grew up?
00:02:36
Speaker
Well, this is a funny kind of answer because when I was a very little girl, I wanted to be a cowboy. So my nickname was Cowboy Joe. And then when I got a bit older, I wanted to be a research scientist. And I think that was very influenced by my older sister who became a research scientist. So yeah, Cowboy Joe or a research scientist.
Essential Leadership Qualities
00:02:58
Speaker
Brilliant. Question two, what are the top three qualities that you think are important in a leader?
00:03:05
Speaker
Well, first of all, probably humility. That's essential. I think empathy would be up there. And I think probably commitment. I think you've really got to commit if you're going to be successful in taking your organisation wherever it is you need to take them. So yeah, I think that's a pretty big one. I was only allowed three, wasn't I?
00:03:34
Speaker
But you can have one more if you like. It's what we're going to talk about later, maybe. I think you've got to be able to collaborate. You've got to be able to listen and work with people rather than just try and do it all on your own. That's not leadership. So, yeah, collaboration. I agree with that.
Better Listening and Dialogue for Understanding
00:03:52
Speaker
Question three, if you can wave a magic wand and change one thing in the world right now, what would that be? Wow. I think I would try.
00:04:04
Speaker
and get people to listen to each other a bit more so that there's less kind of broadcasting and more dialogue. I think that would be my thing. Question four, if you were a Spice Girl, who would you be and why? Oh, I think I would have to be Baby Spice because I am the baby sister in our family.
00:04:31
Speaker
I was also, when I was introduced to the House of Lords, I was the youngest woman, although obviously
Identity and Breast Cancer in Diverse Communities
00:04:36
Speaker
I'm not anymore because I've been in the Lords for over 14 years now. But also I started as a Chief Executive at 34, so that felt like quite a baby. I was definitely a baby in the cancer community at the time. And of course, I am surrounded by pink all the time. I think baby Spice likes pink.
00:05:00
Speaker
pink around me. I love that baby spice in the house of lords. Brilliant. So our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them?
Breast Cancer Now's Mission and Progress
00:05:15
Speaker
Well, I recently watched a documentary about rock against racism and it made me feel very nostalgic about when I was at school and we used to go on all those kinds of demos and go and see that
00:05:28
Speaker
bands of Victoria Park and things and I remember seeing Polly Styrene there on the stage singing about identity and it's about 10 years ago that she died of breast cancer and I'd love to talk to her now about what she thinks of what's going on in the world around identity and all the challenges that we face in
00:05:53
Speaker
in the current dialogue, but also as a mixed race woman, what she could do to help us kind of improve diagnosis and awareness in diverse communities of breast cancer really. And I'm sure she'd have some really good words of wisdom for us.
00:06:11
Speaker
Well, talking about breast cancer, let's move on then to our main area of discussion for today. So talking about breast cancer now, where you are, of course, the chief executive, we know that one in seven women in the UK are likely to develop breast cancer during their lifetime. And that breast cancer is the biggest killer of women under the age of 50 in the UK. So tell us about the work of breast cancer now and its vision and mission.
00:06:39
Speaker
So Breast Cancer Now is still a young organisation. We've been in our current set up for only a few years and we are absolutely dedicated to tackling breast cancer from all angles, whether it's from the perspective of someone going through incurable breast cancer who wants support,
00:07:04
Speaker
or whether it's from funding research to find new treatments and stop women dying of breast cancer, we're tackling breast cancer from all angles. And for me, it's all about making a difference to the impact that breast cancer has on people's lives and whether that's
00:07:25
Speaker
offering support and information today or hope for the future because of the research that we're funding. That's what we're all about.
00:07:34
Speaker
And our vision is that by 2050, everyone who develops breast cancer will live and be supported to live well. And that, for me, brings it all together in one statement, really. Can you tell us a bit more about the context of breast cancer, perhaps relative to other cancers, and how have things changed over the past 25 years or so since you were first the chief executive of Breakthrough Breast Cancer?
Charity Mergers and Their Impact
00:08:00
Speaker
Things have changed enormously. And when I started at Breakthrough back in
00:08:04
Speaker
in 1996. People didn't talk about cancer. It was very much about trying to raise awareness of breast cancer and what the signs and symptoms are. There's still a lot of that to be done, but there's just so much more going on in terms of the screening service and in terms of the awareness of the genetic predisposition to breast cancer. And the research effort is so exciting now compared to
00:08:34
Speaker
when we were starting out all those years ago. So there are so many opportunities now for further developments. There's much more understood about all the different types of breast cancer. So now if you're diagnosed, you can get a very, very clear picture of the kind of breast cancer and which treatments your cancer might respond to.
00:08:55
Speaker
lots of options around surgery, reconstructive surgery, and also radiotherapy has moved on incredibly. So while there's so many options for women diagnosed with breast cancer still, we've got a situation where it's about 11,000 women die every year. When I first got involved, it was 15,000 women died a year. And of course, a few men do get breast cancer as well. So we haven't really seen that number going down as much as
00:09:25
Speaker
we would want and I think it's quite easy for people to think because we've been so successful and are raising awareness of breast cancer and raising funds for research it's a job done but actually there is so much more to do if we really are going to stop them in dying of breast cancer and we know from people who contact us through the helpline or through our fora online fora
00:09:48
Speaker
that the first thing anyone thinks when they're diagnosed is, how am I going to die? So the real risks and the impact on people's lives of breast cancer is still just enormous. And we've got to change that.
00:10:03
Speaker
This is where I suppose collaboration comes in and actually lots of organisations coming together within the sector in order to drive impact for patients and people affected by breast cancer, I think is absolutely key. And Delis, you are widely accredited with bringing about a lot of collaboration in the breast cancer sector. So I know that you presided over the merger of Breakthrough Breast Cancer with Breast Cancer Campaign back in 2015.
00:10:31
Speaker
to form Breast Cancer Now and more recently you brought Breast Cancer Care and Breast Cancer Now together in another merger. So can you share with us some of your key learnings from those two merger processes? For me it's been absolutely clear right from the very early days that our beneficiaries expect us to work together as charities and
00:10:55
Speaker
when we were still three separate breast cancer charities, we might think about a breakthrough breast cancer, we've set up a research centre, breast cancer campaign, we provide
00:11:05
Speaker
funding for research anywhere in the UK dependent on the quality of the application and we run a tissue bank. Breast cancer care, we have the most amazing helpline staff by helpline nurses, specialist in breast cancer. We run most amazing courses moving forward and someone like me kind of bodying systems and we're there for everyone affected by breast cancer. But that for me is all about people saying,
00:11:32
Speaker
how we're all different. And actually, when it comes to really strengthening the influence and power that an organisation can have, it's really great to focus on what we have in common. And interestingly, when the charities worked together, whether it was through the early days when we had a thing called the Breast Cancer Forum that would help us to coordinate our breast awareness messages,
00:11:58
Speaker
during Breast Cancer Awareness Month, or would help us to do our campaigning around the pink ribbon, or we would work together very, very closely. And it just became so clear that we could achieve more together. We could have that greater impact. We wouldn't have to ask people to choose between us if we came together.
Strategies for Successful Mergers
00:12:20
Speaker
And that's really how it worked, really. So we've been very fortunate with having some amazing trustees, and I think
00:12:28
Speaker
I have to take my hat off to the various boards and trustees along the way who have spent hours, literally hours, thinking through all the practical ramifications of bringing the charities together at the various stages that we've been through. And it's always been the trustees who have literally had to sign themselves out of existence as a new board is formed.
00:12:52
Speaker
sometimes give up their cherished role as a trustee for their respective breast cancer charities. So I think being clear that you can achieve more together and seeing that benefit in very practical ways is absolutely key and then having really strong trustee decision making governance.
00:13:12
Speaker
processes that can allow you to make what will be difficult decisions. I like what you said there about focusing on what you have in common. And that has actually been sort of an important thread through the merger processes. And I'm quite intrigued by what you said that because I know that research collated by Harvard Business Review states that 70 to 90% of mergers actually failed to unlock their expected value.
00:13:38
Speaker
So I'm curious to hear how you ensured that value was captured and unlocked through the merger process, and how you have now come on to essentially show that bigger has proved to be better for breast cancer. Well, I think for us, it has been very timely. I'm absolutely convinced that had we continued as three separate organisations, we wouldn't have been
00:14:00
Speaker
able to withstand the challenge of the pandemic in the way that we have with a very sudden drop in fundraising income, a really, really sudden need to kind of pivot the organisation to providing entirely digital services and so on and fundraising.
00:14:18
Speaker
around digital fundraising events and so on. So I think that has actually been a rather sudden and early exemplar of how we've benefited from coming together and being a stronger organisation where we've not been competing with each other just to stand still. But through the process of assessing whether or not
00:14:40
Speaker
the Breakthrough Campaign merger or the Breast Cancer Now, Breast Cancer Care merger. It was very much about looking at the practical reality of what would we actually have to do to put the organizations together? What are the synergies that we're expecting to see? And with the Breakthrough Campaign merger, both research charities, but funding research in a very complimentary way. So there wasn't a huge amount of overlap in terms of our programs.
00:15:09
Speaker
We came together with breast cancer care, again, very complimentary because over the years, the way the charities had grown up, we'd kind of grown up not duplicating each other. So the real opportunity comes in that strong messaging to supporters and potential supporters where we're not asking people to choose or we're not asking decision makers to
00:15:35
Speaker
choose between our messaging. This is what we need in breast cancer. That's what we can say now without having to say, but what about this or what about that? Just a much clearer message and strategy. What we've done is set out those synergies and worked really hard to deliver them.
00:15:51
Speaker
So I understand that your experience of mergers actually goes back to when you were the president of your student union of your college at the University of London and that your college, I believe the Bedford College, actually merged with another. So you certainly have years of experience with regards to mergers. And just tapping into that a little bit more, Dalith, I mean, talking about the practical reality of mergers,
00:16:15
Speaker
What advice would you give to charity leaders who might be considering a merger right now? What are the top sort of most critical things they need to consider before going down that path? You absolutely have to be forensic about the costs, the opportunity and be incredibly tough on yourselves about the evidence that you have for
00:16:38
Speaker
synergies. If you think you're going to be able to make savings in your operational costs then work out what you think they genuinely are before you launch into it because mergers can be expensive and you need to think about what is your business model and if you're thinking of it because you're in financial difficulty then it may be that those financial difficulties may just read across into the new organization so there has to be
00:17:08
Speaker
you have to be greater than the sum of your parts really to make the merger work. And if it looks like it's the financial challenge that's driving, you have to remember it costs money to merge. There's no shame in thinking, well, actually it would be better to be a takeover or an acquisition or a different type of model. I mean, we've actually, in the last couple of years, we've actually taken under our wing
00:17:34
Speaker
a couple of small charities who are set up in memory of individuals. And it's actually been about helping them to deliver on their mission without the kind of admin that they had to do because we're doing that anyway. So we're able to help fund some research in a particular area for them and so on. It doesn't have to be a merger because merging can mean creating a whole new entity, legal entity. It means transferring all sorts of assets
00:18:03
Speaker
If you are going to lose senior staff, then that's a big, big change to get right.
Considerations for Charity Mergers
00:18:10
Speaker
Don't assume it's absolutely the first thing you might want to do. Don't be scared of thinking about other options.
00:18:16
Speaker
I wonder if we might see more of that different type of model that you mentioned there, Delith, in terms of more of an acquisition, particularly as we're coming towards the end of the government's job furlough scheme. And there may be many charities that are kind of at a cliff edge in terms of their financial position. And I think as 2021 goes on,
00:18:37
Speaker
towards the end of the year we may see sadly some charities having to shut up shop altogether and close their doors and it may be that actually some of those acquisitions or takeover considerations might be the way forward. I think you're right and I think it means having to be very honest about understanding what your real assets are. You know that might be expertise about say a particular
00:19:06
Speaker
niche or particular expertise or outside particular kind of benefit or a particular client group where you've got particular experience and knowledge and really understanding what that is because there might be other organizations who could really make the most of that.
00:19:26
Speaker
because often we get attached to the comfort of being in a particular bubble of people and actually be really focused on the beneficiaries and what your real purpose
00:19:39
Speaker
then sometimes you can let go of some of the traditions and things that you thought might have been important, but suddenly when you're losing your income and you can't see a way forward in fundraising, then you've got to think, well, what is it we've got and who might be able to cherish this and do something with it? That's a really tough situation for charities. And I think furlough scheme, when it comes to the end, I am really worried about what all that kind of amazing expertise that there is
00:20:08
Speaker
particularly in small community-based organizations that the larger charities would do well to think about supporting perhaps.
00:20:18
Speaker
Absolutely. And you hit the nail on the head by saying that it's important to understand what your real assets are, what the real value of the organization is, and not being afraid to stand behind that value and be proud of it and put that forward. Dalith, I'd like to talk now about the impact of the pandemic on delayed health care. I mean, you mentioned about the pandemic earlier and how actually being a bigger, stronger organization allowed you to pivot much more quickly.
00:20:47
Speaker
But in terms of the impact of the pandemic for beneficiaries or for patients, it is estimated that 1.2 million women have missed out on routine breast cancer screening checks due to the pandemic, and I believe that there are over 90,000 breast cancer referrals that have not yet taken place.
Collaborative Campaigns Post-Pandemic
00:21:08
Speaker
What this means is that there are people in the community who potentially have cancer but have not yet been diagnosed and we all know that late diagnosis can have a really devastating impact on people's lives. So I know that Breast Cancer Now has joined the One Cancer Voice campaign along with 46 other cancer charities which is another great example of collaboration there to essentially lobby the government to put more resources into clearing this cancer backlog.
00:21:34
Speaker
So can you tell us a bit more about One Cancer Voice and how it came about and what you would like to see now from government? In the cancer community I think over the years we've really, as you all know actually, we've really worked together over many many years with different governments and
00:21:55
Speaker
Just it's so clear that when you do the work to identify, again, what we have in common and to articulate that in a way which we can all support, it just has a much greater impact. And in cancer, as we know, there are very many different types of cancer in excess of 200 different types of cancer. In breast cancer, we've been able to raise awareness and do
00:22:22
Speaker
do a lot and then other types of cancer, people with prostate cancer, people with pancreatic cancer have formed specialist charities as well. So by working together under the umbrella really of the one cancer voice, which came about really quite gradually over the years, and it's really come into its own with the pandemic because as you can imagine, things changed very suddenly for cancer patients.
00:22:50
Speaker
whose treatment might have been paused, adjusted, changed. And so we were receiving, as cancer charities, we were receiving regular briefing from NHS England and the devolved administrations. And we just felt it was so important for us to be offering really consistent advice. And so that's where One Cancer Voice came into its own so that we would be saying to people on our websites and our helplines,
00:23:20
Speaker
really, really consistent messaging about Covid-19. And then, of course, that evolved into us wanting to be really clear about what we're asking from the government. And for me, the most important thing that we're really rallying around for change is on investment in workforce. And that is because we had quite a crisis pending in the cancer workforce anyway before the pandemic. But now with this backlog, breast cancer,
00:23:50
Speaker
As you've explained just now, there's a really significant backlog in diagnosis that needs to come forward. Nearly 11,000 people in the UK living with potentially undiagnosed breast cancer, but also other cancers too. And yet there isn't a long-term workforce plan to invest in the cancer workforce. So the radiologists, the radiographers,
00:24:15
Speaker
surgeons, the oncologists of tomorrow, they're just not coming through. The investment isn't there in the way that it needs to be. So we're really making that case, not just for one off kind of injections of funding, but for a plan, a multi-year plan to invest in growing the cancer workforce.
Influencing Government Decisions
00:24:35
Speaker
And that's so important for the diagnostic side of things, but also breast cancer, for example, where there are lots of new treatments coming through.
00:24:44
Speaker
But every time there's a new treatment that requires more time in clinic, more tests, more scans. This is a good news story for people with previously uncurable breast cancer, but they need to have that time with the expert clinicians. And so we need to be sure that they're
00:25:04
Speaker
being trained up and drawn into the service as effectively as they can be. I'd like to come on to talk a bit further about the crisis in the workforce in the context of Brexit. But once I have you, Della, I absolutely have to ask, given your experience working in government and as a peer in the House of Lords,
00:25:24
Speaker
Can you share some tips on how to really influence decision making, particularly when dealing with policymakers and people in government? What advice do you have for charity leaders? Well, it's a little while since I was a minister in government, but I've never worked so hard in my life, but it was quite an experience. A lot of my time is spent taking legislation through the House of Lords,
00:25:49
Speaker
And the thing that's really struck me is, particularly when I was in what is now the Department for Education, at the time it was the Department for Children, Schools and Families, taking forward an education bill through the Lords and having an irregular catch-ups with the children sector to hear from them about what they thought about this bill and what should be improved or changed or whatever.
00:26:13
Speaker
The moments that really struck me were when they all got together and said, Minister, this is the most important thing we need you to look at. If there was one thing that you could do, because usually as a Lord's minister, you might have one or two concessions that you can argue through with the Commons ministers. And if I knew that they were really doing the work to prioritise their own areas and present to me,
00:26:40
Speaker
what was absolutely the key change, then that really helped me in terms of my negotiations within the department and so on. So that's one thing, to make sure that you're not arguing between each other, you're presenting a really coherent kind of sector view. And then the other one, I think, and this is particularly important for now, is to really understand what it is that the ministers themselves are looking for.
00:27:08
Speaker
and the policy makers, what it is from their perspective they're trying to achieve. And then what that is, how you can see that from your perspective. And so working out that they shared goals again. And often it's about getting the language right as well, because sometimes people get very, very attached to certain kind of words and phraseology and where you can live with language that is
00:27:36
Speaker
understood by the person you're trying to influence, then use it.
Challenges in Securing Government Support
00:27:41
Speaker
It's about really thinking yourself into the other person's shoes, I think. That's such valuable advice. Thank you. And I suppose it comes back to, as you were saying earlier, for the sector to really speak as one voice and for actually charities to collaborate a lot more in presenting that united sort of sector voice to government and to policymakers when trying to influence.
00:28:06
Speaker
And for me, really explaining to government how the government can achieve its objectives by working closely with the charity sector or this particular agenda. It's helping the government to understand in their terms what you're trying to achieve.
00:28:22
Speaker
Absolutely. And I noticed that there's been a lot of feeling or sentiment within the sector that there's been a little bit of a gap in that understanding this past year in terms of the support that the sectors needed. We had recently the Right Now campaign that was asking for more funding, which actually didn't come through when Rishi Sonak announced the budget. Why do you think that has happened? And how do you think the sector can sort of build bridges now? It's really hard for
00:28:52
Speaker
us to get that cut through at times of national crisis, because from the government's point of view, they've got so many issues to deal with. And there is a tendency for policymakers to revert to type and to as the charity sector, we might want to position ourselves as great potential partners. But ultimately, we are potentially viewed as an added extra.
00:29:24
Speaker
not as an essential and I think that's where we've got to absolutely make the case again and again and again.
00:29:33
Speaker
for our unique contribution. Whether it's in disadvantaged communities about the levelling up agenda or economically or whether it's about disparities in equalities, we have to keep making that case again and again and again. And we can't rely on what's happened before because you think about it in government. A lot of the advisors, MPs, they're all new.
00:30:01
Speaker
They haven't been around the block very many times, a lot of them. So we just have to keep making
Brexit's Impact on Medical Research
00:30:06
Speaker
our case. And I remember back when I had my first job in the sector, I worked in shelter and at the time the relationships with the government were really tough and we had to build relationships MP by MP and focus on helping build an understanding of what homelessness charity was all about. And it's not changed since then.
00:30:30
Speaker
just tough grind. So we have to keep up the good work and the good fight for much longer.
00:30:40
Speaker
making the case. Absolutely. Daz, I'm keen to get your thoughts now on another important issue which is Brexit and specifically the impact of Brexit on the UK's medical research sector. I mean I feel that this past year there's been so much focus on the pandemic we've all forgotten that Brexit has happened.
00:31:01
Speaker
So can you tell us some ways that Brexit will impact the sector? I mean, you already referenced the crisis in the workforce. I know that there are other impacts, for example, UK's ability to participate in international clinical trials. I mean, what does this mean for UK medical research going forward? The truth is that we don't quite know yet how it's going to unfold. And our eyes have been on the pandemic while this huge seismic change has been
00:31:31
Speaker
going on around Brexit. Research is a global effort and in the past we in the UK may well have been thought of as a kind of a window on Europe in terms of medical research and clinical trials and so on. We need to be part of
00:31:50
Speaker
as closely as we possibly can to be part of a harmonious regulatory environment with Europe when it comes to clinical trials. The last thing I think patients in the UK need is for us to be another bureaucratic hurdle for a company wanting to do trials to develop new drugs in Europe and that's something I really worry about.
00:32:14
Speaker
And also the research effort needs to be truly global and the research workforce needs to be mobile and
00:32:22
Speaker
We had some news recently about Horizon Europe and government contributions to that, which means that we should be able to continue in membership of that scheme, which is absolutely essential for collaboration across Europe. So chipping away at the barriers, I hope we can do absolutely our best to keep the UK at the top of the global research league tables if there are such things, but it's going to be a fighter thing.
Breast Cancer Now's New Strategy
00:32:52
Speaker
The UK research ecosystem is so complicated and the drivers for success are quite difficult to get understanding about in government and with the terrible impact on fundraising of the pandemic, there are real worries about research funding generally. And I think that it's absolutely essential that as a nation,
00:33:22
Speaker
we can maintain that great sense of mobility that you need for playing a full role in the global research community. And whilst we had that as part of the EU, we have to work extra hard to hold on to it, I think, on the outside. As a medical research charities, we will be continuing to argue for that wherever we can, whether it is
00:33:51
Speaker
arguing for the government to maintain membership of Horizon Europe or whether it's making sure that we're on a regulatory even deal with the rest of Europe, so clinical trials and so on can be done as easily in the UK as anywhere in Europe so that patients in the UK don't get deprioritized for that kind of research so we can continue with access to new and experimental technologies.
00:34:20
Speaker
So yeah, I think it's hard work, but we've got to keep it up. Yeah. Absolutely. I think it's so important for continued progress and talking about the future. How do you see the rest of 2021 unfolding and how are you preparing your organization to navigate the ongoing uncertainty? Well, this year we are launching a new strategy and it's a four year strategy. It's taken a bit of
00:34:49
Speaker
pulling together because we started work on it just as we were going into the pandemic. And we'd kick the tires on it once or twice just to make sure that it was absolutely fit for purpose. But once we went into lockdown last year, we went through a really difficult period of examining what the organization's needs really were. How can we best serve our beneficiaries? What do we really need to deliver the
00:35:18
Speaker
best possible services and make those as accessible as we can and how do we make sure we continue to fund the most excellent research, etc. And so we're really, really challenging ourselves to say
00:35:31
Speaker
our income has been adversely affected here but we believe that as we go forward and the benefits of our mergers start to come through which they already are showing then we will be able to grow and we will be able to do much more for our beneficiaries which is what we want to do. So we've created a kind of approach that is quite agile so we know that we can grow quite quickly if we get the opportunity
00:35:59
Speaker
And so what we're doing is we're going to work hard to make sure we've got those opportunities that our fundraising portfolio, we've done a massive review of every aspect of our fundraising so that we're really brought together the fundraising portfolios in the best possible way. Like everyone, it's been really tough not having all those events and so on with community fundraising, but it's all changing because
00:36:24
Speaker
the amazing results that people are seeing on some of the digital platforms. So we've tried our best to be as agile as we possibly can. And so we're going to be as ambitious as we possibly can. And a lot of it is about really tackling the really significant changes that we need to see over the next four years around support and influence around
00:36:48
Speaker
secondary breast cancer, so metastatic breast cancer, where we really want to see some progress in research terms, we want to see improvements in access to clinical nurse specialists. And in public health, we need to see real step change in early diagnosis, particularly for people from black and minority ethnic communities, where we know that
00:37:13
Speaker
disease is diagnosed so much later with the chances of successful treatment being really, really difficult. So we know that we've got lots of work to
Opportunities in Personalized Treatments
00:37:22
Speaker
do there. And also the big one, we need to make sure that everyone who's diagnosed with breast cancer knows about our services and can access them. There's a lot of work for us to do as the NHS goes into its latest phase of reorganisation and so on to make sure
00:37:40
Speaker
that breast cancer services know that we are here to support patients and people when they're diagnosed with breast cancer with information to support whether they want to meet someone and speak to someone who's had breast cancer and experience of the disease similar to them. So there's so much that we have to offer and we need to get in front of people in our new comprehensive integrated form
00:38:09
Speaker
And on the research side, you will know that there are so many opportunities these days that need to be pursued. And we know much more about all the different types of breast cancer that exist, whether it's hormone sensitive breast cancer, whether it's triple negative breast cancer, a phrase that we absolutely hate and we'd love to
00:38:28
Speaker
have a better one there and so much more that can be done to promote a much more targeted and personalised approach to treatment for everyone at the right stage for them as early as possible.
00:38:42
Speaker
So a lot to do.
Balancing Professional and Personal Wellbeing
00:38:44
Speaker
I love that approach in terms of being agile and ambitious. And I'm going to add really focusing on awareness and creating awareness for the work that you're doing amongst your beneficiary communities and the focusing on the value of your work. I think for all charities, that's what's going to help drive them forward and help them thrive through the pandemic.
00:39:07
Speaker
So, Dalith, I'm very conscious that in addition to your day job as the chief exec of Breast Cancer Now, you have many professional roles. As we talked about before, you're an independent peer in the House of Lords, you're the chair of the National Cancer Research Institute, president of Cancer 52, just to name a few. I'd really love to know, how do you balance all of these demands with your own wellbeing and what has been your go-to with respect to self-care during this past year?
00:39:36
Speaker
Oh, that's a really good question.
00:39:44
Speaker
I've been working in my bedroom for a year. Yes, we all have. Yeah, it's quite a challenge, especially as I really do gain a lot of energy from being with people. So I miss being with my colleagues and my team, but I do try very hard to always to explain to everyone around me the value of investing in yourself and your own wellbeing, to try and get outside and go for walks.
00:40:11
Speaker
I happen to like cycling. I'm not a great cyclist, but I love cycling. I always get that sense of freedom on my bike. I feel like a kid. If there's a challenge for breast cancer now, I would always do it on my bike and I'll have something coming up soon that I'll need to get out there training on. I do like to enjoy watching some
00:40:34
Speaker
as I've learned. Making sure that I have boundaries, because when you're working at home, trying to get a routine, making sure that I do switch off and take some exercise and so on. But I do get a lot of support. I'm really fortunate that I have the most amazing team. And also being dyslexic, I do have
00:40:57
Speaker
a very special executive assistant, Charlotte Hopkins, who looks after me with the most incredible lists and so on. So I'm aware that I am fortunate in the support that I have. The people I work with, they're just so amazing and the way that everyone has been so flexible and incredibly hardworking and really committed to making a really positive impact for everyone affected by breast cancer. Then you have a
00:41:24
Speaker
a short conversation with someone who's going through a treatment or the outcome for them isn't going to be positive and they're spending their last months campaigning on an issue and you just think, wow, that is so inspiring.
Commitment to Reducing Mortality and Improving Support
00:41:37
Speaker
It does really help keep you going actually because we are making a difference and that's a real privilege.
00:41:45
Speaker
Absolutely agree with you there. In fact, I was going to ask you what has been the most inspiring thing about being involved with breast cancer now, and particularly thinking back in terms of your career, you've been involved with the breast cancer sector for a while and what really motivated you to get involved in the first place? Well, for me, it's been a long journey and it started off as being, when I started at Breakthrough, my father had had cancer and I'd had experience of it when I was quite young.
00:42:15
Speaker
And I really identified with the desire to talk about cancer because it was something that the taboo went
00:42:21
Speaker
when my dad was ill. And so that was really important for me, but I also had a great interest in research. And although I wanted to be a research scientist, I realized quite quickly that actually I don't have the kind of personality that would quite work. You know, I found kind of being on my own in the lab or having to spend hours in the library looking up reference. It wasn't quite me. I was much more of an activist at heart, really. And not that science isn't great activism, but at the time it felt
00:42:51
Speaker
I couldn't quite stick it. So I just found that I loved the science and I loved the positivity of fundraising and campaigning. And then of course, when I finished a break, then my sister got breast cancer and then it all changed. I then became really aware of the uncertainty of having surgery, not knowing until you wake up what kind of breast cancer she's got, what kind of treatment that would have to be.
00:43:16
Speaker
And then later on when she was diagnosed with secondary breast cancer, I kind of thought, right, I'm here for the long game here to really try and make a big impact on this disease because it just feels like, almost like we've done all the easy stuff and now we've got to do the hard stuff, which is to actually get that 11,000 figure down and help more people to live with breast cancer really.
Leadership Reflection and Decision-Making
00:43:42
Speaker
positively. And process has done really well. She's still with us. But the impact of the treatment she's had has been pretty heavy on her lifestyle and so on. And so for me, the really rewarding thing about all of this has been to see the improvements in treatment and to see we ran this big campaign around this drug called Cat Cyla. And
00:44:03
Speaker
And we actually won that results to get that drug available to women. And you just think that is actually giving people extra months of life. So that's really motivating. And then we have this someone like me service where if you're worrying about whether or not you want to have breast reconstruction, a huge operation, if you're fortunate enough at the moment, they're not really very much available at the moment, but these operations are really difficult, lots of difficult decisions.
00:44:32
Speaker
we can put you in touch with someone who's been through almost exactly the same experience. And it just makes such a difference to people's lives. And for me, it's that making that difference, really making a difference to people's lives.
00:44:48
Speaker
I completely agree with you whilst I was CEO at Children with Cancer UK. One of the things we were very focused on was finding and supporting more effective treatments which had a beneficial impact on the quality of life for children
00:45:03
Speaker
and supporting treatments and supporting families that were going through the horrible disease and the treatment and the focus is absolutely on saving children's lives and there's so much energy you draw from that and certainly as a chief exec I really felt that that was what drove me. Absolutely, I think for me it's that simple mantra of providing support for today and hope for tomorrow and it really
00:45:31
Speaker
does mean that to me to be able to do that really effectively. I love that, providing support for today and hope for tomorrow. Really lovely. So does thinking back on your own leadership journey, and I must say you have absolutely made an impact on the breast cancer sectors is so inspirational just to see what you've achieved. And I'm curious to know what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO?
00:46:03
Speaker
Oh wow, that's such a good question. I think it would be something like allow yourself some time to reflect because sometimes giving yourself a bit of reflection time, you can see some nuances or have some fresh perspective and so on that doesn't always come to you.
00:46:32
Speaker
straight away. So allow yourself time because if you're making the really big, important decisions, then you won't have to make too many of those very often, but when you do, they are absolutely the big ones and you need to give yourself the time and space to reflect and think and then stick to it and make it happen.
Focusing on Beneficiary Needs and Hope
00:46:59
Speaker
I think maybe when I was younger, I was in a terrible hurry.
00:47:03
Speaker
Yes, I think we're all as charity chief execs, impatient for change and impatient to make an impact for our communities and beneficiaries. Delith, it's been so wonderful talking with you. And in closing now, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? I mean, what is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? I think it's about how we can achieve more together for our beneficiaries and keeping that relentless
00:47:31
Speaker
focus on what it is our beneficiaries want from us. And a lot of the time I think that's about us providing hope, providing some really, really thoughtful thoughts on the future and options for how we can make this world a better place that others can get behind. Thank you, Dallas. It's been such a pleasure to have you on the show. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you. I've really enjoyed it. It's gone so quickly.
00:48:04
Speaker
I so enjoyed speaking with Baroness Delith Morgan, CEO of Breast Cancer Now. She had so much wisdom to share and her insights on mergers, on collaboration, on influence in government and actually on just about everything were absolutely invaluable.
00:48:21
Speaker
I loved how she said that as charities our core purpose is to provide support for today and hope for tomorrow and that as a sector we can achieve more together through more collaboration along with a relentless focus on what our beneficiaries truly want and need.
Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
00:48:40
Speaker
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00:49:05
Speaker
Visit our website thecharityceo.com for full show details and to submit suggestions or questions for future guests. Thank you for listening.