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Birding, Grief, and Legacy with Melissa Hafting
368 Plays20 hours ago
In the final guest appearance of Season 2, Dexter and Jason sit down with British Columbia's own Melissa Hafting to explore how birding can provide profound healing and hope. Melissa reflects on her experiences as a Black woman birding in British Columbia and discusses her remarkable new book, Dare to Bird: Exploring the Joy and Healing Power of Birds. She shares how her parents nurtured her love for birds early on and how that foundational support motivates her to mentor the next generation of birders in her community and beyond through the BC Young Birders Program she founded in 2014.
Melissa is a trailblazer in the birding community, breaking barriers, championing diversity, and leading with grace and determination.
The conversation also touches on Melissa's favorite birding spots in BC, including the Reifel Migratory Bird Sanctuary and Boundary Bay. She talks about her role as an eBird reviewer and showcases her breathtaking bird photography.
Melissa Hafting is a shining example of how Black women significantly contribute to birding and beyond.
Connect with Melissa:
📸 Follow Melissa: @bcbirdergirl
🌐 Visit her website: Dare to Bird
We also want to thank the Special Bird Service, another Canadian organization dedicated to making nature more accessible. Through birding, they aim to remove barriers and challenge stereotypes about the outdoors.
Connect with Us:
🐦 Dexter: @WiscoBirder
🐦 Jason: @TheBirdingBeardsman
🌐 More episodes & resources: Bird Joy Podcast
🎙️ Are you ready for some Bird Joy? Let's Go!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the Bird Joy podcast. I'm Dexter Patterson. And I'm Jason Hall. This is the podcast for all the bird nerds and their homies out there. They want to find a little bird joy. Yes. Are you ready for some bird joy? Because we have a heavy dose of it for you all today. And we actually have our final guest of season two of the podcast joining us from you today?
00:00:28
Speaker
Hi Dexter, thank you so much for having me and hi Jason. I'm doing really good and I'm so honored to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, for those of you that photographer. She's the founder of the BC Young Birders program which gets gets youth of all walks of life. Outside to find joy and community and that on ramp for that is birds. And the program also helps to teach youth about citizen science and the importance of bird conservation.
Melissa's Passion for Inclusivity in Birding
00:01:01
Speaker
As a black woman, Melissa is also passionate about making birding more inclusive and welcoming for all she speak in our language. You already know, especially for BIPOC birders like herself. She has embedded herself within the BC birding community by serving as an e-bird reviewer. all we gonna have to talk about that. Now we're managing one of the most exciting birding forums in North America, the BC Rare Bird Alert. I can't even imagine the type of bird... Well, I can't because I see your photos. The type of birds that you're able to get. Melissa sits on the board of directors for the Frontiers and Ornithology or ah Association, which educates and inspires youth to take their path passion for birds to a higher level, literally, by encouraging opportunities in ornithology, conservation science, and related academic and professional
Themes in 'Dare to Bird' and Melissa's Contributions
00:01:51
Speaker
pursuits. She was also a judge for the 2022 and 2023 Audubon Photography Awards, recipient of the BC Natures 2021 Daphne Selecke Award for contributing to nature education for children in British Columbia, a finalist for the 2021 Nature Inspiration Awards for the Canadian Museum of Nature, and led the 2022 CBC TV documentary, Rare Bird Alert. Most notably, however, yes, it he keeps going. This is a true superstar, folks. Melissa is the author of an incredible book, Dare to Bird Exploring the Joy.
00:02:29
Speaker
keyword joy and healing power of birds. This book is visually stunning. Like I honestly haven't seen anything like it with every page turned. And as you get to the text, you start to find yourself navigating the photos through the text and the adjoining pages, the chapters and experiences. They include bird travel. They include birding with a dog and doing ocean pelagics. Oh, my stomach hurting already. And there are There are also chapters that ask us to look a bit deeper as we reflect on topics like grief, hope, friendship, and the healing power of burning in solitude. If you need more inspiration, please go check out her book and you'll get a taste of her photography right away.
Joy and Challenges of Birding for Melissa
00:03:12
Speaker
Huge online presence there at BC Birder Girl. Melissa, welcome to the Bird Joy podcast. Welcome. Thank you so much. I'm pumped up just saying all that stuff. Like, holy cow. We are truly in the presence of greatness today. Aren't we Jason? We really are. We really are. And I, I enjoy as we go out and get, you know, we just kind of, you know, people We'll send us bios and stuff and, but we'll also go and we'll look and we'll, you know, I listened to other podcasts you're on. I read art and we try to put together an intro that is fitting the guest. And you have done so many amazing things and it's just been such a lovely, joyful, meaningful influencer in our community from the jump. You're doing so much. You're doing a lot. You're continuing to move through life in a way that is probably a struggle sometimes. And so how are you doing right now in terms of your recent birding experiences and what things are keeping you going and keeping you energized and What things recently have been giving you those little slivers or big slivers of bird joy? Well, just thank you so much, Jason. But yes, getting out and being in nature and looking at birds just really lifts me up. You know, as I said in the book, I've lost both my parents. And through that grief, it's really helped me to get out there and bird for distraction, for just thinking about grief while I'm out birding. It just brings me so much joy. Working with the children brings me joy. Getting out there showing them birds, seeing the joy on their faces, seeing how much they want to protect the wildlife as well and their habitats. And a lot of them who have gone through the program, because I started this in 2014, are now biologists themselves or working to protect the environment in their own ways and really passionate about it still into adulthood. And that means a lot to me.
Birding and Personal Healing
00:05:05
Speaker
And in the beginning, it has been a struggle, you know, being a black person is probably, you know, as well. It's not always welcoming out there in this hobby, but birds are for all of us and they don't judge us and they make us feel
00:05:17
Speaker
safe watching them, you know, but it's the people that have been the problem sometimes. There's been a lot of barriers that we have to go through that other people don't have to go through. And it's been difficult. It's been rewarding in the end to see, you know, more people of color in this hobby, especially in the youth coming up. And that's positive. Being on, you said I was on a board and stuff like that. And those weren't, you didn't see any black people on boards when I first started. And now, you know, now it's really changing. It's mostly male, white dominated. You are seeing different people on boards, more women too. And that's a good thing. I actually just got appointed to the checklist committee for the ABA, which they've never had. They never had a black person on. So they said that that's, you know, that's a big deal. It's inspiring to see that. You're a big deal.
00:06:07
Speaker
it's ah I love it. And you mentioned prayers and thoughts to you. I know, you know, you you mentioned losing your parents. Your dad was the more recent man. And I remember reading some of your posts and I just, my heart was breaking. I do love when we talked about this with Tama Watts is even in those moments sometimes in life when, when we are, you know, heartbroken and we are in grief and we are sad, those brief respites when we're with the birds help us get through that. And you know I just, we talk about that with our with our listeners and we want people to understand that in all moments of your lives, the birds can be there for you. Nature will be there for you when you need a pick me up, when you need to just go touch grass or hug a tree. or whatever it may be to bring you up, to lift you up in those moments. And and I just thank you for talking about that. And thank you for centering that message about even in in times of grief as you were living through that, right? And you're real in that moment, living that, but sharing that with other people. And I just want to say thank you for that because there are a lot of people that think they need to suffer alone and you don't. There are a lot of people that are going through similar things, and I think that's what I love about the birding community. tell me I find so much inspiration from even folks that I don't only even happen to be able to go on the trail with, but they're they're just sharing their stories and and their passion and their life and the ways that they're getting through
Support in the Birding Community and Mental Health
00:07:29
Speaker
things with us. and And I just really appreciate that. So I just wanted to say thank you because on this podcast, we like talking about that because we're all human beings and we're all have those moments in our lives when we just need a little bit more and birds are typically a nice elixir, I will say in those moments. I just want to say thank you. Thank you. Um, it's true though that like grief is a taboo topic. Even in this modern day and age, people don't want to talk about it. They kind of want to just tell you to get over it and just be grateful for what you have. But it is a real thing that people go through, especially when you lose someone you love. There's also anxiety, depression. There's all these things that happen to you. Even just regular people who don't have, who haven't had a major loss, they still have maybe suffering depression. And I still find that mental health and grief, depression, everything is not wanting to be really talked about in the open. And I wanted to talk about it in my book because it's something we all have to unfortunately go through. And the birds are there for us when we are going through these really traumatic events in our life. And they do bring joy and they do help people cope with these things. Like I didn't even want to get out of bed. I didn't even know if I wanted to live anymore. And that's the truth. Birds, they help me to keep going. And so that's why I'm so grateful for them and thankful for them. And I wanted to share that message about how birding can really help us in these really terrible times in our life.
00:08:46
Speaker
Yeah, you certainly did share it in the book and it's, and it's evident kind of from the first pages, whether it's through the introduction or just some of the background in history on your growth as a, as a birder, everything is connected back to your mom or your dad. And we're going to, we're going to get into that too, because there's some really cool themes within the book that I think we're going to want to talk about outside of the amazing photography. One of the things that people know you most for is the is the BC Young Birders program. And I you know i i encourage folks just just go Google it, YouTube it. There's ah ah some cool clips and some little documentaries and stuff that are really, really special. You were doing so much you know just in your career as an ecologist and and you know in your book, you're talking about five years old out there with your pop, right. And you know, getting into it, right. And we've heard that story. We just, you know, the podcast with Alex Troutman, he's out catching water lizards, right. And and yeah and you're out there with your dad, right. um And it's just a great, it's it's a, you know, everybody has a childhood, right. and And we all have different childhoods with different experiences. This common theme of being supported in your bird joy at such a young age, Can you tell us about some of those more pivotal moments as a, as a child, maybe some of the most joyful memories you think of as a young birder?
Mentoring the Next Generation of Birders
00:10:03
Speaker
Like, what was that like? Take us back in the time machine, five, six year old Melissa out in the yard. What's going down? Yeah, so my dad was the one that really got me into birding. He bought me my first little field guide and he took me out to this bird sanctuary we have here called Rifle Bird Sanctuary and it's a place that's just full of all these different birds. You can feed them there and everything and he's the first person that taught me how to feed like black-capped chickadees and when it came on my hand I was just like hooked and that was my spark, that was my spark bird. The chickadee was the spark bird? Yay! It was, yes.
00:10:35
Speaker
ah black hat chikety and it was so cute and everything And then after that, I just, every bird that I saw, I would tick off in the field guide and I want to see more and more of them. And he just took me out and got looking at birds. I was with him for my first pileated woodpecker, which was just amazing to me to see this huge woodpecker of the Red crest and My first hummingbird was a Rufus hummingbird with him and seeing this little orange like jewel just and that support that he gave me. I became a much more hardcore bird than he was. He was more like a general naturalist, but that support of just supporting me and what I loved being like.
00:11:08
Speaker
interested in like what I wanted to see and the birds that I wanted to talk about was just really important. and I think that mentoring children like that is important because they're going to grow up to be the future stewards of this planet. and they're also It's just really nice and rewarding to support them in what they love. and He was that for me. he would you know as we As I got older, we would watch the snow geese together coming in this huge in winter where they come here to overwinter, there's huge, huge thousands of flocks of them. And that was something we did together. So in the end, I surpassed him about my degree of level of hardcore birding. It was just that support that it really gave me the foundation to want to be in this hobby, you know, and he talked about that burn. nerd in you early. I love that. I love that. And you can see how impactful that was for you, right? And when you think about it, as you're continuing to go through your your grieving process, I hope it's those memories, right, with your dad from all these years that you hold on to and realize when you're out in the field, he's still with you, right? yeah He's still with you because he he he nurtured that that love for birds in you early on and that's what's keeping you going. So just every time you continue to get that bird joy, just be like, thank you Pops, thank you Pops. I really appreciate that because we talk about how those moments in burning, how I can tell people like when I get a lifer, I can remember where it was. I remember the tree, where I was, sometimes like how it felt, right? Like in that moment, like it literally like transports me back
00:12:37
Speaker
there to those memories. And those are some of the most beautiful memories in my life. and and And I hope that you're finding that bird joy and all of those beautiful memories you have with your pops. Oh, I
Building Community and Overcoming Barriers
00:12:48
Speaker
am. And just like i I remember so many joyful moments like feeding Canada J's together and them on our heads and just like all that joy and how we He was really good about, he's the one that taught me to how to protect the environment to make sure I don't leave any garbage, wherever we're camping or anything like that. He taught me about the importance of protecting it for the future. And that's something that really has stayed with me since a young age. Yeah, you're right. I'm so grateful for that. And I i do i do think both my parents are with me when I'm birding and that's comforting.
00:13:16
Speaker
That's beautiful. That's fantastic. I recently lost my grandmother in November and she was, she was my birding person in the family and it was, it was really hard. It's still really hard. But one of the things I'm most excited to do is go, she lives in Idaho, lived in Idaho and it's, that's, that's where her grave is. And I'm excited the next time I go out there with my fam, just to sit by her tombstone and make a little checklist and talk to her, you know, and just see, there's a little duck pond down below and we're looking at these big mountains and it's, and it's, um,
00:13:46
Speaker
you know When I was out there for the services, it was a lot of me walking around outside and just talking to her and seeing things that she loved. She had nesting eagles on her property and she would always text me or send me messages you know in the in the middle of the nesting season. So I feel that. I feel everything that you're saying. um It matters and it makes a difference and i I love how you're channeling all of this into that spark that your parents nurtured for you that you you literally like giving this to all these other children, young folks, you know, across BC and like that is just such a beautiful piece there, right? You know, you describe yourself as a mentor to many of the new birders and birders that come to your program
00:14:27
Speaker
And other than your other than your dad, did you did you have other folks along the way that kind of nurtured your love for this as you got maybe into adolescent teenage years, college years? Like, did you have these little pockets along the way? And did you learn anything in particular from those folks? First of all, I want to say sorry for your loss and I'm really sorry about your grandma. And I was just going to say that thank you when when you were at um at the grave and you're doing a little checklist, I actually do that. I go visit my parents once a week and I go and they can listen to all the birds at the cemetery. And there is a lot of birds that come in the cemetery, so it will be comforting for you. um No, I didn't have any other one for a mentor.
00:15:05
Speaker
And I found that is one of the main reasons why I started the program because I didn't feel very welcome in the birding community. I didn't have anyone that was mentoring me as a young person other than my dad who taught me about birds and stuff. So I thought it was really important to get these kids together and help them feel welcome to talk to them on their level, to take them out in nature, because I didn't have anybody who really made me feel welcome in the community at all. Um, I thought that was important and they seemed really keen on it and they all wanted to be part of it. So it worked out really good. That's one of the main reasons why I started that program. Love it. She's paying it forward, you know, and Jay, we've talked about this, like, whether it's your, your little homie speaking of bald Eagles, your little homie from the burning club. And I talk about Roman andre wrote Andre. Yes. Andre Roman. Yesterday it was chase and chase a little, black little brown boy. His mom was black woman. His dad was Asian and he's probably about eight, eight or nine. I would guess based off all my, you know, interaction with my four children, but chase's favorite bird was the chickadee. And he told me he said he could do chicken.
00:16:11
Speaker
ddd for 17 seconds. I said, do you want to have a ticket? Y'all? It was so funny. i was like come on I'm ready. I'm ready. Chase, you know, you want this smoke. oh He want no smoke, bro. He want to chase the 17 seconds. So we just literally nerd it out over. Oh, it was my favorite moment of the entire event. It was incredible. But we've talked about this, Jay. That youth, that joy from those kids when we're leading the walks for our clubs, that joy hits different. It just hits different. It's a specific kind of joy. And and Melissa, talk to us about watching the young birders explore the natural world up there in British Columbia. How's that feeding your joy and your purpose?
00:16:56
Speaker
Oh, it just gives me
Organizing Youth Birding Trips
00:16:58
Speaker
all my joy. Like it just, it's inspiring. It's, it's beautiful to see. It makes me feel good. It just, I just feel like I'm helping the world be a better place in the way that the kids are going to make sure that the world's a better place. Like I, you know, it's a very difficult world right now and you see all these terrible things on the news, but they are, these kids give me hope that things will be okay. because they're going to be there. They want to protect the planet. They're really passionate. The questions they ask, you know, they're actually they're not just trying to get Instagram likes or whatever for their pictures. They actually care about the birds. They're asking questions or becoming biologists and ecologists and
00:17:35
Speaker
it's it's really inspiring to see so they do give me hope they give me joy you know when i'm out there and they're just so happy you can't feel you can't feel sad when you're just seeing these kids be so happy about the birds they're seeing and their lifers they're getting and And even for the common birds, they're happy to see, you know, like it's just, it's a, it's, it's a beautiful thing. Really gives me a lot of purpose. It gives me a purpose in my life too. Yeah. And it's, uh, Dexter and I were just talking before you joined. He had an event at the, they were talking about it the at the Milwaukee zoo yesterday and he was like, my cup is full. My great joy cup is full. It got filled up yesterday, right? I need to go get mine filled up. And honestly, talking to you two is filling mine up quite a bit. um And it's funny how the, the innocence of children and young folks, right? As, as you watch them navigate this world and I don't know what it is, like metaphysically, like watching a young person get excited about, let's say, finally seeing a bird or, you know what the, you know what the best juice is? A kid that's never used binoculars. ah And when they finally get it in focus and they see the intimacy of the bird and they just like look up at you like, what is this world?
00:18:47
Speaker
you know like It gives me like goosebumps. I'm like, come on, man. like this like Somebody pay me a lot of money just to do this for a living. i will you know This will be my job. like If I could just have enough to survive, like I'm good. you know and it's It's just so innocent and so pure. and like when you're When you're putting together these excursions, these these trips for these young folks, like how are you designing that? Are you guys staying pretty local? Are you taking trips all over the province? like like How do you kind of decide where you're going to go, what you're going to look at?
00:19:18
Speaker
Oh, I take them all over the province. I do overnight trips. I do pelagics like Dexter was talking about where we go on these um long boat tours off of Tofino to see like Albatross and things like that. That's not, you know, every week or anything. But, you know, I try to do a couple trips a year that are out of the city and doing these overnight trips. They're a lot more work, but they're really rewarding. You know, they get to see birds that they don't see in their hometowns, you know. And so, you know, when they get like took them to see like a flamulated owl, which you would never see in Vancouver. And they were so like, The joy for that was amazing. And there, when we were, we tried so many times hiking up in the mountains here to find whitetail tarmac and it was a huge target for the kids. And when we finally found it, it was, I talk about that in the book, it was just like, um, out of the field special. So, you know, um, I take them all over the province. yeah And you got people coming, you said, not in their hometown. So you, you're reaching youth in, in multiple areas then. Yes, I am. Vancouver Island, Vancouver, the interior. like So yeah, even the Kootenays, which is really far, we have a kid that comes further sometimes. So yeah it's it's so it's it's nice to see that there's so many kids that want to be part of it. You are that mentor for all these beautiful young folks in BC. Thank you.
00:20:31
Speaker
I would encourage folks listening, like you want to start something like this, start it, you know, trust me. the The dividends will come in the smiles that you see as young folks get a chance to experience stuff. And it's, you know, Melissa, you're just another fantastic example of taking action to do that thing for your community and it and it immediately showing benefit to yourself and to others. And and I just just want to encourage folks, don't, if you got it in your mind and you got it on your heart, go do it. The three of us here are good examples of that. Yeah, really. It really truly is. It's priceless. Really. Yeah. I think I was surprised that no one had started one in Vancouver because it's a big city, you know, and there was all these kids burning alone and I saw them all and I was just like, Hey, we need to get these guys together and go. Cause it really does make a difference when the kids can share that love with other kids their age. That's really important.
00:21:20
Speaker
and yeah i mean a lot of them are yeah And a lot of them have still lifelong friends now. The ones that graduated from 2014 program, they're still friends. They still go on trips together. So it makes lasting friendship. You like the Batman of Vancouver. You put up the burning bat signal.
00:21:36
Speaker
And everybody was like, we shall congregate. you know They knew what time it was, you know which is beautiful. it's Speaking of beautiful, let's talk a little bit about these photos. I mean, not the photos on your on your Instagram, but the photo, obviously the photos on the Instagram, go check them out. But the photos in your book are incredible. they're They're so intimate. And when I think about experienced photographers know that getting these type of photos usually takes a little bit of patience, a whole lot of skill, a lot of muscle memory and time on the job.
Bird Photography and Storytelling
00:22:09
Speaker
But that time to pursue birds for photography specifically is a little bit different than viewing them in the binoculars. Can you talk about or describe one of those memorable pursuits of a specific bird photo that ended up in your book? So I'll talk about the spotted owl because that's a
00:22:26
Speaker
and That was very hard to get. um That was taken in Washington and I have photos in the book of the endangered spotted owl. There's very few of them left. In British Columbia, we only have one wild bird left and um seeing that was pretty magical. And like you said, it takes a lot of patience, especially with owl photography. And to be ethical, of course, you know, to not to to just be able to stand in one spot and just wait for the bird to come to you. so It's not easy and it takes a long time, but it's It's worth it. The reward is worth it when you get to see that magical encounter when like a spotted owl flies in and you can take that photograph and it works out. and That's a really important memory in the book for me because those birds are no longer there, which is very sad. So I'm glad that I've captured them there. because I've gone back to the spot and they're they're no longer there. And barred owls are now in there. It's sad to see, but it's it's a special memory for me. And a lot of those photos in the book, yeah, they were for many years of photographing around. And I'm really glad you like it because it it was a lot of work to achieve. So yes please go get that book, y'all. Go get that. I mean, those, those photos, tremendous. slow say We love doing that. We love doing that. like and we you know we we've We've talked about this, this species, you know, with, with the barred owl displacement, the forestry stuff that's happening. That's not great. The logging. And it's just to see this, just like really intimacy is the key word. And, and like,
00:23:51
Speaker
I look at these pictures and and when you get the book, you just you'll turn like eight different pages and they'll just be amazing photography on each of these pages. and Then you'll turn the page and there'll be some text that you can read and contextualize with it. and Then you'll read that, you'll feel that, and then you turn the page and boom, you got like this spotted owl staring you in the face. The colors are so rich. so like I really you know tell folks, um I've heard people describe it as a ah coffee table book with substance.
00:24:16
Speaker
um And that's that's that's really what it is, right? It's like you think you're just going to be looking at really amazing pictures, but there's also a text to help you reflect on those pictures and the stories behind them and the people behind them. Thank you for putting that together that way. Thank you.
Birding's Role in Peace and Community
00:24:30
Speaker
I tried to put the pictures along with the text so that you can feel what I'm feeling when I, you know, I'm trying to write about. So I'm glad that those, I want them images to move people. So I'm glad that that you felt that as well.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, I certainly did. I certainly did. And you know, we talked with Tama about her kind of daily traditions and anchoring herself and and and and her book, it's her her kitchen window. Do you have a space like that or a tradition or you can even call it a superstition, right? Things that you do to just say, Hey, I am in, I am in birding mode now. I am in finding peace in nature mode now. Like, is there a place or a bird song or sound or something that gets you in that, in that spot? Well, I love going by the ocean and sitting by the ocean and watching the birds, just shorebirds just go in murmurations. That's really grounding for me. And we do have a beautiful place here called Gondry Bay where there's just thousands and thousands of Dunlin and Western sandpipers that come through and seeing them in their, you know, murmurating flight is just, it's really peaceful and grounding for me. And being by the ocean, you know, hearing the sounds is really beautiful. So I love shorebirding for that reason. That's crazy. So I think, ah I can't imagine. Yeah. Y'all get crazy amounts of shorebirds, right? Cause they're nesting. They're nesting up there. So I'm like, we all, we get excited. We see, you might get a group of like 20 and we're going crazy or something or some shorebirds flying or something. Talk
00:25:54
Speaker
So it's a little bit, so like here in Wisconsin, maybe it's the same for UJ, like Burton is literally like, we're all about migration. And like, that's kind of like, those are like where a lot of people get most excited, right? in fall And fall and spring. And then obviously in between as club leaders who are working to show people that It's 12 months a year. Like there's, you know, there's always something to see. How is burning in your neck of the woods? Is it migration fuel? Is it what's the day in the life of a birder and freaking British Columbia? Like I just want to know how it is. you know Oh yeah, here it's pretty mild. So in Vancouver anyway, so people are birding all year round and there's lots of good ah wintering birding here because we have like lots of owls and raptors, deer falcon, everything that comes here in winter. So that's really beautiful to see. But again, for us too, it's like spring migration is like the the peak. Where people are out there looking for different warblers and what new bird can come in, that is the that's people love the most. And then shorebird migration in the summer, when all the shorebirds come through, is is really special to see as well. So those are really big movements here. We're lucky here that you know people bird all year round and that there's good birding all
Impact of Climate Change on Birding
00:27:06
Speaker
year round. We do get lots and lots of rain. Yeah, it's it's good in all seasons here. So I'm like you, yeah, I get out 12 months a year. I love some good winter birding, but I feel like it's different. It's different where you are, though. Like it like over here, we're like just cold for no reason, just hateful cold for no reason. There's no shorebirds other than some sanderlings out by the beach. And it's whether it's your interact on Instagram or what you're seeing. um I think we follow the special bird service as well. I think they're also in British Columbia. And they'll be posting shorebirds in the middle of December. I'm like, what what what is this world? Because like I don't know.
00:27:42
Speaker
I don't have no short birds. What's going on? you know And i I remember hearing, I think it was Alvaro Jaramillo saying that on the East Coast, you can get maybe a little bit more diversity of birds, but on the West Coast, you get these just insane numbers, like just massive flocks and just where you can really witness migration. And so like how do you how do you decide? like like Like when springtime rolls around, You know, I would have it. I'd be like, where do I go first? Like I'd probably be like analysis paralysis by analysis. Right. Like I'd be like, I wouldn't know where to go ah first. Like, do you have a spot that like right now you're like, Hey, once marks 15 rolls around, you're going to find me over there. Um, like a particular hotspot that you love.
00:28:25
Speaker
Yeah, it's really tough, but usually Boundary Bay, like I was there yesterday looking at like Shorebirds. I was looking at Redknot and... What? I didn't see anywhere. and yeah My first Redknot was with y'all down in Little St. Simon's Island, Jay, remember? Yeah, we had to go to Georgia to get Redknot. We just got them up there and then... Oh yeah, the winter, there's short-bill voucher, which is really rare for us in winter. Lesser yellow legs. there's I was looking at tons of different bluebirds. Willet, Curlew. It was crazy. Wimbrel yesterday.
Managing Rare Bird Sightings in BC
00:28:58
Speaker
All these birds, all these bird sounds, I'm going to be editing on this episode. It's going to be fantastic.
00:29:08
Speaker
was And it's January, even for us. that' oh man I'm so jealous. I mean, I'm sure climate change is is impacting things out there the same way it is here. Right. And and that's certainly a concern um for sure as a lot of these species move further north. and months that they wouldn't typically. And I wonder like with your with your youth groups as you all go out, right? Is that something you guys are observing or talking about regularly, like the impacts? You haven't been doing it for over 10 years now. Like, are they noticing shifts even in their own experience over 10 years?
00:29:39
Speaker
Even in their own experience, yeah, in a few years we've been doing it. We've seen like swallows have really declined. There used to be so much more swallows on our field trips and we'd go and see in the interior and see black terns. They're no longer there. So things because the water level is too high. So like climate change is really impacting the birds. You're seeing like since I was a kid. There's compared to how many swallows there was around when I was a kid, there's hardly any in comparison and it's really, really sad to see. So you are seeing different things. Like you said, we're seeing shorebirds here that we normally would not see. We do get lots of shorebirds, but not normally those ones in winter. And we're seeing species that you don't normally see in winter here, and which is really... its ah kind of alarming you know and you're seeing things like rough legged hawks that was one thing we're talking about with the kids just recently rough legged hawks you used to go out and see like 20 or 30 of them now you can barely see one a year so things like that are really changing things are not going good in the arctic other birds are being pushed up north like you said and it's alarming we were seeing that like with the limpkins you know the hot limpkin summer y'all remember that I think it's, you know, I think they whisper that it's still ongoing. Yeah. Like there all these birds, I remember, you know, a decade ago, we would never see American white pelicans in Wisconsin, really. They nest here now, like all over the state, you know, it's it's so weird. So we are seeing these birds making, you know, moving north, looking for habitat, looking for food, climate change is changing some of these locations to where they are able to survive and find food. and It is kind of weird and and it's a conversation that definitely needs to be had. That must make life very busy for you running the rare bird alert for BC, right? like It really does. that's gotta to be You have to get an assistant. Yeah, it's so busy. I really do need an assistant. like It's crazy how many things have been showing up late recently. like
00:31:29
Speaker
It's ongoing like so much ah right now in the state in the
Future Birding Goals and Adventures
00:31:33
Speaker
province. We have whopper swan and brambling and what else we have? Saw the brain. Yeah, like we never used to get so many green gel toys and we had three in the last year. So it's you can see things are changing. yeah The Whooper Swan, that's a cool one too. Yeah, very cool. Do you have a have a bird or a list of birds that you haven't seen in your area that you hope to photograph or see next? What's on your life for this? Oh, there's ah there's lots of birds I haven't seen. I would love to see like a citrine wagtail that I've missed too in the province. And they're really mega rare. I would love to see one of those in DC. There's a long list of things I would love to see.
00:32:15
Speaker
I still have lots of birds we still need to see. But we're always learning where you'll never see them all. like That's the beauty of freaking burning in my opinion is like there's never an end in cycle of learning and joy its exploration and oh it's freaking it's fascinating you know like it's like it makes life exciting like I have no clue what I'm about to see maybe I see nothing. Maybe ah you know maybe I see something new. like You never know. that That is the beauty of it. is like Today, I might go out and find something amazing. The state's first Wisconsin's first record of the white wagtail that's been hanging out in Sturgeon Bay. Rita went and got it. You know Rita went and got it, Jay. I'm sure she did.
00:32:55
Speaker
And i one word I really, really want to see is a Ross's golf. I would love to see that. Now you're talking my language. yeah Now you're talking my language. Let's go. Yeah. Cause like that's one. And I was looking at one of your, in the book, you have a picture of an ivory goal that you to I think it was Montana. Yeah. it Was it Montana you drove to? Right. Like, and I like, I saw that and I was like, Oh man.
00:33:16
Speaker
Let me find out an ivory goals within a 10 hour drive of me. I'm out. cough cough I'm sick. I'm out of work today. I need to go. Ross's goal would be, I mean, you'd have to go pretty far north to see one on their range. The point came down, right? That would be, Oh, you're going to text a brother if you hear about that.
00:33:33
Speaker
Cause that would be, that would be awesome. And like the Citrine ragtime actually taking a trip to India in a couple of weeks. And that's one of the ones I've been studying in just for the waterways. Cause it's, it's in the part of India that I'm going to be in. So don't be jealous, but you know, I'm going to go see it, you know, it won't be, it won't have to go live or something. You know what I mean? That's the thing. I think a Citrine wagtail showing up in BC would be a bigger deal than me going to see them where they actually live. Yeah, I've seen them. Yeah, I've never seen them seeing them in their natural habitat is pretty special, too. Yeah, you know, because, you know, birding and, you know, Dexter, you kind of mentioned this, like, I don't know, like, other than other naturalist type hobbies, I don't know other things where you can say for the rest of my life. Outside of being the homie that I already saw 10,000 species of birds for the rest of my life, I have something to look forward to or plan for or dream about, right? When it comes to my exploration that you're like in birding has that, and it's so palpable right now where just the thought of, Hey, I wonder if in a couple of years I can take a flight over to British Columbia and spend like a long weekend birding with the homies out there. That thought, just the thought by itself, makes me so happy and pulls me, you know, pulls joy into my body. It gives me something to work towards, to look forward to, to be excited about. And I just don't know many other things that do that and actually create community around it. And so like, that's something I don't think enough people talk about with birding is that it's just this fully anticipatory activity or just the thought of it can make you happy. I love that. I'm now going to do my dance for the bird rain gods and get you a citrine wagtail. I'll make some small sacrifices of some marshmallows over a campfire tonight. Um, and we will, and we will try to make that happen. It's a beautiful bird folks. If you want to look it up, it's got some yellow in it. So it looks different than the, than the white wagtail. It's a good bird ebird reviewer. Like let's talk about that life because I think you're the first, I I'm think you're the first ebird reviewer we've had on and gonna you're doing it for a try to get that going for space that is, that is quite large. you.
Role of an eBird Reviewer
00:35:39
Speaker
I imagine quite diverse in terms of the type of birds. And I'm guessing in the type of people. What do you want the world to know about eBird reviewers today? Because I feel like they get a bad rap sometimes and they are all volunteers. And so like speak to the people, right? Let them know like, Hey, calm your nerves, right? Relax. You know, when you get the eBird email, like let them know. Yeah, well, I can understand why people get frustrated because they feel like your baby thinking they're a liar or you're attacking them in some way, but you're not. You're just trying to make sure the data set is correct because it's scientific data that scientists use. And we are volunteers and sometimes people are not always respectful when you send them an inquiry about could you please provide more information like a detailed description or especially if it's a provincial rarity or a photo or something like that. I think on the most, most people are okay, pretty good, and are grateful for your Ebert. A lot of people do thank you for being an Ebert reviewer, because I think they know that it's not always easy. And you do have to put up with some people who cannot be very, very nice at times, because people take it personally, unfortunately, when you have to make a correction. I've been doing it so much years, it's just kind of like water off my back now. Water off the back? Yeah, water off the back. I'm used to it all. I've heard it all. I love it. I love that you mentioned it is about protecting that data though. That citizen science component. It is volunteer work and folks, it is not personal. It's not personal. So Melissa, if new birders are coming up to your neck of the woods, they're coming to BC and you have one day to take them somewhere, where would you take them? That's tough. We asked the hard-hidden questions
Recommended Birding Spots in BC
00:37:20
Speaker
here. Yeah. Because if we pull up, guess what first place we going to is going to meet? Well, I'd probably take them to Victoria, actually, to see, because they would see a lot of the seabirds that are West Coast specialties that are harder to see in large numbers in Vancouver. So I'd probably take them there. I'd also take them to Rifle Bird Sanctuary in Vancouver, because you can see things like saw-wet owls up close, especially in winter, which is really special, and shorter owls flying along the marsh. In Victoria, like at Cattle Point, you can see things like surf birds and rhinoceros aquats and huge numbers of ancient muralettes and marble muralettes and black term cells and things like that. And sometimes if you're lucky, tufted puffins. So those would be something special to see for people. And in the summer, you can see heremans gulls there. And those are the two places I'd probably take them first because, you know, Pigeon Gilamat are really a West Coast specialty for people to see. And that would be nice to show them there. But yeah. Seriously, I'm about to throw my headphones off. Like, I'm so upset. Like, as soon as you said surfboard or an ostrac office, I was like, come on, man.
Community Building Among Birders
00:38:25
Speaker
Come on. Like, you know, like, are you still, are you still doing tours for Avocet? I am. Yeah, I'm actually leading. My next tour is in May going to Point Dewey and then Newfoundland later after that in the summer. So yeah. All right, folks, you heard it. You heard it. Yeah. Yes, we do. We definitely need to come visit. We definitely need. There's a lot of homies up there that we're hoping to see. And Jay mentioned some of the others up there too.
00:38:51
Speaker
Have y'all collaborated yet? Not yet, we haven't. They're in Vancouver Island. stuff i'm I'm going to lead some bird walks for them too. I told them I can do that. so love scene like like it's just It's so special. like because like I think a lot of us because of this, if you if you think about the historic birding community, I don't know that there was much need for, let's say,
00:39:17
Speaker
specifically white men to be connecting online and then connecting person later on down the line, right? They're really, because it was, that was just the ethos. It was just a big white guy activity to say it plainly. But now you find black and brown folks, we're connecting online and then we're actually meeting each other in person and doing stuff. Women yeah are just out there. Like I've seen just such a spike in women led touring companies and tours. And it it is just, it's really, really, really, really special. And I think that's another thing that we can all look forward to is like creating community by connecting with each other, whether it's podcasts, Instagram, whatever. And, you know, looking forward to that, you know, i'm trying to figure out how to make space for one
Upcoming Projects and Conclusion
00:39:58
Speaker
another. And so last question, sorry.
00:40:01
Speaker
There is a lot going on. There is, uh, obviously the continuing work that you do with the young birders, the rare bird alert, yeah all the things you have to do to keep your life going. Not that we have to be doing something new all the time, but is there anything new on the horizon or anything you want to let folks know about? Or even just like, Hey, 2025 is the year I'm going to go find that citrine wagtail. Anything folks should be knowing about, right? I did tell you that i I'm starting in January on the checklist committee for the ABA, which is another thing. But y'all got some work ahead of you because there's new birds in the ABA all the time that are coming up. So that will be interesting to learn about all the different birds that are being seen across North America and voting on that. That'll be interesting. That's exciting. And I'm hoping to work on a second book soon. so play too So you know, I'm having ideas coming up about that. And, um, Just working with the youth and trying to get out there and um look at birds and make help the kids get happy and enjoy like you guys do as well. Yeah, that's what I have. on Melissa, this has been beyond amazing this conversation. Thank you. you for giving our listeners that experience of being able to spend some time with you today and and listen to how you see the world of birding and all the amazing work that you're doing to spread that bird joy. And it really does start at cultivating that bird joy in the youth. So thank you so much for that because I wish I had a person like you growing up, you know, a person like Al, like we've talked about this and um you are a prime example of living with that wildlife mirror that Al was talking about last week. Where can folks find you if they want to stay connected? We mentioned the Instagram, the BC Burter Girl. Would that be a good place for them to to connect? Yeah, my Instagram. And then also I have a blog called Dare to Bird. You can just Google that, daretabird.blogspot.com. And that's where I write about my travels and my trip reports with the youth. If they want to learn more about the BC Young Birders program, I have a website called bcyoungbirders.ca. And that has all our trips and our our events and stuff like that. So yeah, that'd be great.
00:42:07
Speaker
Love it. We will link all of those in the show notes. Thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. Seriously. Thank you, Dexter and Jason. It was wonderful. Really appreciate it. Absolutely. Thank you for joining us today on the bird joy podcast. We hope you enjoyed exploring the world of birding with us and Melissa today. Shout out to the homies in the BIPOC Birding Club. We are still doing our thing all winter, as y'all know. BIPOC Birding Club.org. Yes, yes. And thanks to you all for listening. And shout out to the homies in Philly and Carly Birding.org. Although I feel like now everyone's going to be asking me when we're taking a trip to British Columbia. So maybe we can figure that out. If there's any sponsors listening, let us know. Anybody want to drop a grand on us so we can go join? And remember, it's the BC. That'd be pretty dope. And also be kind of dope if you would share, subscribe, and shout out this podcast to all your fellow birders and help us spread a little bird joy.