Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Finding Joy Outdoors with Alex Troutman
544 Plays7 days ago
In this uplifting episode, Dexter and Jason are joined by Alex Troutman, known as the “Best Smile in Birding,” to explore the many ways to find joy in the great outdoors. Whether it’s birding, fishing, hunting, or camping, Alex inspires us to live life with a wildlife mirror, reflecting the beauty of the natural world.
Alex shares his incredible research journey highlights, including studying Karner Blue Butterflies in Wisconsin, sea turtles in Texas, and bats in Malaysia.
The conversation includes Bird Joy Podcast shoutouts to Hunters of Color, Black Duck Revival, and the homie Mahdi Woodard, the Atlanta Birdman.
Don’t miss Alex’s thoughts on his upcoming merch and the hosts’ shared dream of birding in South America to spot the iconic Harpy Eagle. Want to help them get there? Holler at your bird-loving crew!
Connect with Us:
Follow Alex Troutman: @N8ture_Al
Dexter: @WiscoBirder
Jason: @TheBirdingBeardsman
🌐 More episodes & resources: Bird Joy Podcast
🎙️ Are you ready for some Bird Joy? Let’s Go!
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the bird joy podcast. I'm Dexter Patterson. And I'm Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the bird nerds and homies out there that want to find a little bird joy. So welcome. Yes, a little bird joy. And you know, I always say birding isn't always just about the birds. It's about nature. So are you ready for some nature and some bird joy today? Let's go.
Conservation at Georgia Southern University
00:00:50
Speaker
Georgia Southern University. Right. yeah Right. it's only the that's That's the one that right. That's the one. Right. Right. Right. The rio gs you no real The real GSU with a focus in conservation. His research includes a wide range of things. And we're going to talk about that with Al today. Alex is also co-organizer of several Black Connect Science Week, including Black Birders Week. Black say it for me. I'm a mess it up. Black Mammologist Week.
00:01:17
Speaker
Black Memologist Week and Black and Marine Science Week. I knew I was going to butcher it, so save a brother. All of these movements, man, encourage diversity in nature and overall just a celebration of Black individual scientists making people aware of Black like nature enthusiasts all over the place in diversity and steam fields. Alex has a passion for sharing the wonders of nature and introduce the younger generation to the outdoors. He's an author of a number of pocket guides to animals in various states, including my own
Challenges and Representation in STEM
00:01:53
Speaker
Wisconsin. You know, I got it. yeah You know, I got it. He has been featured or appeared on CNN, The Odyssey online. He understands what it's like to grow up without wildlife role models, which is something we were talking about before we started recording today. A common theme for all of us and a lot of people, a lot of black men that I know, a lot of people that I know, a lot of people of color that are scientists didn't really see that when they were growing up. So we want to be able to talk about that. And Al, you are the perfect person to have on the show today to talk about this. So welcome, my brother. well Appreciate it. I just thank you guys for having me here. And yeah, let's talk about this wildlife and what it means to have a wildlife in the area. I'm excited to be here and I love you guys and let's get it. Awesome, man. Dude, it's so good to be back with you again, man. I just, I remember we talk about this a lot in the podcast, but that weekend, that long weekend at St. Simon's Island, little St. Simon's Island with everybody. And I just One of my pivotal memories is just like looking across the back of that truck bed and like you sitting there, Dexter sitting there and we're just like rolling in the dark to the beach and I'm like, what are we doing? This is amazing. Like, you know, and I felt, honestly, I felt I'm not in conservation work, right? I'm not, I don't do work out in the field, right? I'm one of them lab people that Dexter makes fun of, right? um but
00:03:12
Speaker
I felt more comfortable being in the back of the truck with you, homie. I was like, Al knows what's good. He knows these swamps down here. He knows like what we're looking for. And and that that is one of my favorite memories, man, of being there with you and being able to listen to your stories and your voice. And like you know it's been too long. I think that was 2022. So like what what have you what have you been up to since then, man? What's what's going on in life? How are you feeling?
Personal Achievements and New Roles
00:03:35
Speaker
Ah, yeah. What's going on in life? Well, I mean, the biggest thing is your boy is engaged. Uh oh. Uh oh. Congratulations. He's off the market. All right. Off the shelf. I know. yeah We all seen his smile. He's got the best smile in birding. I know there's some thirsty people out there, but take it off the shelf. He's gone. All right. He's out of here. Yes. I am off the market. The DMs are closed. See folks, the joy comes on so many different levels on this podcast. You know, joy is joy. You know, joy let's go.
00:04:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. I love it. Since the last time we were all together, I have completed my master's. I've been working up in D.C. with um Freshwater Policy um with the Fish and Wildlife Service. I completed that internship. I was part of NOAA. It was the Canals Marine Policy Fellowship. So I finished that and now I'm back in Georgia. I'm working with the National Park Service as an Environmental Protection Specialist i here.
00:04:47
Speaker
at Chattahoochee River Recreation Area. It's a national park unit here in Atlanta. yeah So I'm doing that, focusing on trying to eventually get married. Weddings are expensive. I'm learning that now.
00:05:02
Speaker
that we have a date down and we're trying to narrow our venue, but yeah. I love it.
Finding Joy in Nature and Personal Reflections
00:05:08
Speaker
I love it. You know, Al, every time I see you, man, you're outside, you really kind of embody what you preach, whether it's holding a sea turtle or climbing around in a marsh, wearing orange, going on a hunting trip, examin and bats in the middle of the night or showing somebody something cool like showing a kid something cool in the stream like you're really out there how do you find replenishment when when you are so busy and you got so much going on how do you replenish yourself how how do you keep going yeah I mean for me I spend a lot of time outside and it's been great that I work outside and it's also where I can also find joy and passion to be outside. So when I am outside, outside of work, like I'm able to take that uniform I was like, this isn't work for a national park service. This is my time. My joy in outside and outdoor comes from like my spark bird, which is the red tail hulk. Seeing that bird when I was a little flying like over me fishing just knew, honestly, low key, I was jealous. Like, I can't fly. that they can't fly
00:06:14
Speaker
So I just get like empowerment and from being outside just like from birds being able to just take off and go where they want and not really simply having any care in the world. And there's nothing truly like really holding them down. So I kind of like envision that like being outside there. There's nothing really like holding you down. You can go ah pretty much anywhere you want to. Go low-key, some of those faces. There might be a little of trouble for black people in a sense that we can go outside and just feel that like we don't have to be surrounded by walls, which is something I'm really learning right now because my position currently is mostly indoor position. A lot of times, like,
00:06:54
Speaker
yeah I do feel a little bit boxed in, caged, so when I do get to do field work, for work, and then once I'm off the clock, I'm like, I'm heading outside, where taking my dog for a walk, or just being able to now go bury with my fiance and show her some of the cool things that's around my um hometown. The my replenishment comes from just being in nature, and and also by having friends and other people who are enjoying nature with me, i like my friend, Mahdi,
00:07:24
Speaker
amazing bird have to reach out to him too. I didn't know that was your homie, man. That's awesome, man. So you guys get out together, huh? We do, yes, yes. So yeah, going out with him, um just taking trips that we're going to say are going to be a day trip, and end up being three days later, we go for a trip.
00:07:52
Speaker
ah We go to South Carolina, like we're going to come back up. And three days later, we now down in Jacksonville, Florida, like I guess we should go home. But yeah.
00:08:05
Speaker
Oh man, that's why you're not going to do that when you get married. Yeah. Yeah. It's going to change a little bit. I won't be able to just go off. I can give her a little heads up ahead of time. Like I might be going for a couple of days out there and I got to check in. I can't say I got to do tomorrow. You know what I love? You were telling that quick story about you were out fishing and you got your spark word. So you were already in nature. And you're already exploring nature. You're already getting joy from fishing. You're already out there. And then all of a sudden, you have this red tail hawk fly over you in that moment. So it seems like to me early on, you knew that nature was for you. Yes. Well, my last name is Charlton. So it's like I was going to be in nature. I was, I was definitely, I can't lie. Like I was blessed growing up with my family, like being able to own our own home. And we have a yard, like a little creek in our backyard, probably owned like a half an acre or so. I would spend time fishing and chasing. They're called salamanders, but at the time when I was little, I was calling them water lizards because that was right next to the water. So I grew up doing that. my dad, uncles and brothers, like they all fish. We went fishing. And so I was very blessed to have that. A lot of black people and people of color don't have that. And that I was able to have that not only have my my own yard, but have someone to go out with and experience nature with. And that was what I was doing. I was fishing with my dad and my uncle and brothers. And I was getting whooped in fishing. That means I wasn't catching anything. Even the birds was catching fish. The great blue hairs was across the leaf. Catching fish. So, being myself, I have ADHD. So I was just looking around. That's when I saw the red tail hog just flying over. I was like, I really like that bird. And at the time, I didn't know that was my spark bird. I didn't know what a spark bird was. man. I knew that's what was connecting me to nature. And then later on in life, that's why I knew like, Oh, the spark bird is a bird that gets you into birding, or for me, help further develop that feeling and love for nature. That's why I realized the spark bird was the
00:10:21
Speaker
Redtail Hawk. But again, like I said, I was blessed to have that family like acceptance of doing something on nature. So for us, it was fishing. Like I remember days jumping in, ah oh, dude sent a quarter driving down Alabama and fishing going to West Point Lake fishing, cool thing for me it was like being able to like bye with my brothers and dad and uncles. But yeah, like like I said, I was blessed to have that growing up why I didn't have to go out and find nature. It was it was in my backyard. It was my yard. I was getting in trouble looking for frolids and snakes and started cutting the grass or like playing baseball, just being distracted by and heels or vultures flying over and then all of a sudden I got to look up and see a ball and watch it soar over my head. Got to run and catch you that's why it. That's they me in on left field because no,
Diverse Conservation Experiences
00:11:21
Speaker
she wasn't hitting over there.
00:11:23
Speaker
They're like, listen, Alan ain't paying attention. We gotta, I want him, I want him to participate, but he, you know, he up there with the birds. We gotta, and I, you know, that's, that's such a great story. Cause it's, um, just, just reading about you a little bit, man. And if you Google Alex Trautman, you'll find articles on this gentleman doing things all over the place. He mentioned he was in DC. Now he's down outside of Georgia or outside of Atlanta. And I think that the interesting part of something I read about you, you're, you're one of six, right? One of six kids. Yes. Yeah, man. that's So I have ah a blended family, actually. So my dad had a son before he met my mom, and then I have two cousins that are my siblings. Their mother passed away, and my family adopted him. So I have two cousins that are my siblings. Then my dad had a son, and then my mom and dad had three other kids. So it was all us. so We was was running around. in deep
00:12:19
Speaker
Yes, rolling deep. Everybody pulled up in that that silver Ford Winstar. They knew the choppers was there. i You know, I find that like I, you know, I just, I imagine that in that backyard you talked about, right. And like just the opportunity to experience nature. And it's so evident what you're telling us from a young age that you were curious about everything, not paying attention to Mona law, not paying attention to baseball and pursuing these, these things in your mind. And it's, it's evident too, when I read about some of the research activities you've done, the conservation activities, you know, from the sea turtles, right? To the bats. I even remember about the bats, right? And like, you just done all these other things. Like what's, when you think back, like what are some of your favorite moments or experiences that you've had? Maybe positions, seasonal positions, research positions, internships, whatever. Cause I think it's important for people to hear like some of the diversity of the things that you've done. I find it to be incredibly fascinating. Yeah, I've done a lot of work, like my first governmental job was working with butterflies, endangered species called Carnar blue butterflies, actually, up in Dexter Neck I was um in New Richmond, Wisconsin. The Carnar blue. We got some good spot. One of my bird mentors, Bob Welch, who passed away, he has a huge Carner Blue population on his property that he's donating in perpetuity for conservation and to the state and things. Yeah, that that butterfly is so beautiful, Al, and it is such ahs a cool connection to not only you, but somebody else that means the world to me in the birding world. car blue like
00:13:55
Speaker
it was it was amazing just like work like working up and see them and like it was long hours doing work before we could even like go and see the butterfly. My job was to do a lot of habitat manipulation or like planning like grasses and mowing, ag fields, waterfall production areas, as well as like thinning the forest just to be able to get some suitable habitat to be able to plant the plants that we needed to to then go and collect the kind of blue butterflies and their eggs. Now collecting eggs was hard like it's been on your hands and knees looking for like less spirit egg the size of just a little bit bigger than like a pin needle. looking for that egg, find that and then like cutting some of the host plant off, which is the wild looping, pin that in a test tube to eventually being able to transpose it to some wild looping that we're growing in a greenhouse and then eventually release the new butterfly and caterpillar that had into our waterfall production areas. I spent a year doing that. Then that made way for me to work with sea turtles. I had never worked with sea turtles before. Never thought I would because at the time I wasn't going out to sea to see anything. I wasn't going to get on a boat.
00:15:16
Speaker
oh The good thing is sea turtles, they actually come ashore. Mostly the females, there are a population in Hawaii where the males will come ashore. In Bass, bat Texas, on the coast of the county of the U.S., most other populations of sea turtles, only the females come back up after they have made it from a hatchling to the sea in a dote when they come back and lay the eggs. There are other certain cancers where they are like injured or get cold sun, where the males may wash up.
00:15:46
Speaker
But anyways, sea turtles came to me, I didn't have to go to them. So I got to work with sea turtles at Padre Island, that's the seashore. As a sea turtle biologist, um mainly focusing on the Kemp's Ridley sea turtle. We also got to do some work with green sea turtles and some hawksbill that got washed off. as well as some loggerheads. They are main focus was against really sea turtles and getting them when they come up to lay like collecting eggs and pinning them incubation arm room and bringing them to they patching and releasing them. They are critically endangered sea turtle. And they're pretty cool. I like them because they're like, they're a misfit. They're like the smallest sea turtle on species, but they also are sea turtles that nest during the daytime where most others on nest during the night and they nest in like groups called Arabadas.
Sea Turtles and Perseverance
00:16:37
Speaker
So a whole bunch of them come up at time. Now, this doesn't happen in Texas, but in Mexico, why don't it come up at time? In Texas, when it's an Arabata, it's like when it's like probably like five or six coming up, like on the same beach, not just in the same area at the time. We'll call it an Arabata, but in Mexico, I haven't gotten to see this person yet, but it's my list. In Mexico and also like in Costa Rica for like all the red leaves, they will come up and that's like, hundreds of thousands at a time on the beach. So I got this experience that, um so that's one of the cool things. and like I like sea turtles because like black people, like we are already got to dig and get it out in the mud. We're stuck at the bottom. light When we are are born, just sea turtles, they're literally got to dig themselves.
00:17:27
Speaker
auto the nest and then once they get out of the nest they are not out of harm's way yet they still got to make it across the beach through those dangers and then get to the water where they still are going to be facing more dangers like in fact like only one in 100 or one in a thousand like sea turtle have hatchlings will actually make it to goathood. It's just crazy that like the sea turtles, like they go through so much to just they reach the ocean. They're still not technically safe than black people. like We go through so much to not only just go through our life, but for many of us, like getting into the conservation field. and Then once we are we are successful at getting into the conservation field, like our job isn't done. We still have to turn back to shore to go help others, others out. So it's like a never ending cycle of putting yourself on the line just to make sure others safe and keeping that door open and not trying to gate keep others. Yeah, man. Like that's, that's a, that's a great analogy, right? The level of, um, perseverance to kind of tit for those turtles, for those sea turtles, right. And it's certainly easily connected to for a lot of us in terms of where our families have come from. I love just the the difference, like from on your hands and knees studying butterflies to You know, being on the beach waiting for turtles to show up so you can help them, you know, get their eggs hatched in a, in a, in a higher
Unexpected Journey into Bat Research
00:18:44
Speaker
clip. Um, but, but tell me about the bats, man. What's going on with the bats? Like tell me, cause like, I don't, you ever seen that scene from Ace Ventura where he goes into the cave with the bats and like, you know, like I felt that scene in my soul. I like that, but I don't know. Like that's the one creature that I'm not sure I can, I can necessarily be around. So I'm like incredibly curious about how you ended up doing that, man.
00:19:05
Speaker
Bats are, they're amazing. Like, I like bats again because they're a misfit um animal. Like, not really understood, like a lot of times, black people as well. I got into working with bats by just by like chance and luck. I applied for a position, um went through a university here that was going to be going to Malaysia, working with small mammals, like my research college. um undergrad was working with on small mammals. So those are like rodents, some which conclude like squirrels are rodents, if you didn't know, beavers are beavers aren't considered to small mammals. But anyway, it's just like, voles, rats, my so my job was going to be working with those small mammals and Borneo on which is a island that's like owned by three different different countries. You got Malaysia, and then it's Indonesia, and Brunei is all on on the island of Borneo. um But my original job was going to be going and do small memory research, but funding fell through for that project, which was a project that technically I wasn't even going to apply to because I didn't think I was qualified for it. And then like people kept saying, hey, you should apply to this. And I was like, oh, but then like about a third time someone like Alex, like you need to apply to this. So then I applied to it and I got it. Then the funny got taken away for that project, but they hit me up and it was like, yo, like we're sorry. Like the fun isn't going to be for this project, but what you want to, we'll actually said, I hope it's okay. We pitch you on the bat team. And I was like,
00:20:41
Speaker
Yeah, I'm not going to pass it up. To go work with bats and then just to still be able to go to like Malaysia all the way across the world. That would have been like my first time like actually like going across on the world anyway. So I was like, yeah, I'm definitely not going to pass that up. So anyways, I got a chance to do bat work in Malaysia. It was a lot of work. We started off not getting a lot of bats. We were going to hiking up a mountain, setting up mist nets, and waiting for bats to come. um but For the first couple of nights, we wasn't getting bats. Then we introduced another trout, which is called a heart trout. Basically, it's a giant window frame with fishing line hanging down from it, and the bats fly into it and bounce off, and they get caught in a bag that's up under on the heart trout. So then once we you started doing both of those and moved location, we started getting bats. Oh, walking up this mountain is actually worth it because we was walking up first to start off like twice a day. Then it was doing it four times a day going up and down because we would go up the night before I set up and then come back down. Then when the morning time would go back up and set the heart to look at heart traps and then move into a different location.
00:21:53
Speaker
and then we'll have to go down and hike back up and set them ah the actual mist nets. We started catching bats, and we was catching different types of fruit bats and insectivores, bats that eat insects. But insectivores, they're they're like cool, they set them up in clothes and all. they wasn't They don't have anything like on the fruit bats, because insectivores, they're are so small and like beady. They look at you, but it's not like they're looking at you, but with the fruit bats,
00:22:21
Speaker
they're looking at you and their eyes are pretty big. And it's like, I'm gonna remember you. And then a fruit bat, so like biting down on you, trying to bite to you. Thankfully we have gloves on and so like, it doesn't really hurt. But it's just like them staring at you like, oh, you got me? I'm gonna remember you and come get you. But anyways, all that to say, like bats are not dangerous. They're not gonna chase, like chase you and try to bite you or anything like in the movies and a lot of people. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen.
00:23:10
Speaker
Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. So Listen. Listen. Listen. Listen. we go out a Listen. little early and Listen. we go to Listen. a bat swarm Listen. and we partner up with our local DNR and they have this barn that has about, it was almost a little over 200 little brown bats and they come in for their swarm after going out and hunting all night. So we sat there in our lawn chairs right in front of the barn and I can vouch for this Jay, they did not touch anybody. They swarmed around everybody.
00:23:42
Speaker
and we got to watch them it was it was really cool it was very similar to like swift night out you know like the experience of like watching it and not instead of going into the chimney they're going into the barn from like the window and all these little cracks and like every once in a while one of them would like pause like on on on like a ledge or something and you'll get a little look at them and then they're gone again they were coming low bro like some um they were like buzzing you know they will buzz you because they're kind of curious but Wow, it was so cool. So we did that for about two hours and then we hiked a nearby portion of the Ice Age Trail after that. So we make it a, you know, we get the bats warm feel and that gets everybody's juices kind of going. And then we just go do some normal birding out there. Great summertime event. Nice, nice. That's pretty cool. Like one of my goals is to see the Mexican and Brazilian free tailback. So I'm down in Austin and see them like go up under the kind of street bridge. They have like millions of bats like coming in or and leaving like at dusk. I want to see it. I've been. I've been on the bridge, but I haven't seen the bats yet. Honestly, that's my goal to see that. One fun fact about bats is like, um, well, actually two. One is they're actually one of the fastest flying like animals, especially with Paragon Falcon can dive like around like 212 miles per hour but it's not the fastest and then at one time I think it was like a swift that was one of the fastest bird. The fastest like flying power flight is actually the Mexican like free tail bat and they can reach like like 99 98 miles per hour.
00:25:22
Speaker
Also, like going back to batsmen scary. Bats, like even vampire bats, they bite and they don't like suck blood. They actually just lap their blood up of livestock and stuff. But there's actually a moth that actually like bites and like sucks your blood. Mostly animals. That's what I'm supposed to be afraid of. Yeah, watch out for them moths. They small and sneaky. But you don't have to worry about them. I believe they live in South America, so they should go burning down there. Love it. I just googled with that bat, and it looks that both the Mexican and the Brazilian freetailed bat. They are cool looking, man. They are pretty dope. Yeah. Awesome. Al, so you ah you yeah you were talking a little bit about growing up you know with your family, and and you got your your dad, and you're fishing with your dad, and your family, your siblings, and uncles, and
Inspiring Future Black Scientists
00:26:12
Speaker
everybody. But we were talking about,
00:26:14
Speaker
this lacking of role models as youngsters for people that may want to go into steam fields. And I know that's important to you and your mission. Can you talk to us a little bit about some of your experiences that have validated you to push that, to maybe be that for some people or any particular experiences that you treasure? For me, like growing up, like for a while, like um I didn't have any like role models. like I knew I wanted to be a wildlife biologist. Conservationist, I didn't know exactly. in Wet field and wet avenue, was that even possible for me? like I grew up on Seaver and Jack Hanna. Jeff Korn, all great conservationists and wildlife people, they're all white. They don't have any connections to me whatsoever. um but I was like inspired by them wanting to do that same stuff that they were doing. But for me, like the closest thing I can get to working with animals where either be a vet
00:27:10
Speaker
or be a farmer. And those are the only rows of black people and people of color working with animals. So for the longest time, I knew I wanted to be a wildlife biologist and conservationist, but I chose to be a vet because that was the only avenue that um I had going for me. And for even the longest time, like I grew up 20 minutes from a national battlefield and then the national parks i really park where I work at now is 45 minutes from me. And even then, like I never saw a black or a person of color working in those roles in any type of um like scene position. Even at the zoo, Atlanta Zoo, Atlanta is heavily diverse. At the zoo growing up, there's still no black people working in like animal care, husbandry, or any of that. We're mostly working in like the like entertainment or like
00:27:59
Speaker
ah hospitality areas of the zoo. And that wasn't, that was like that. Even, I didn't see another black zookeeper until I started working as a zoo, um as an educational person and one of the ambassador hammers keepers. I didn't see that another black person. And then at Kennesaw mountain, it was, it still wasn't that another black person. I don't think I seen one to this day. And even at a state park, my local state park. ah So there was like, you know, connection of,
00:28:27
Speaker
I like to say Mira, someone who looks like me, working in the not just wildlife field, but a natural resources field when I was growing up. And like, I know, like, I know that feeling. And it's one of the reasons why like, I try to be like that person for other individuals, especially the younger, like, black and brown generation, because a lot of times we are, one, we're not showing that representation, or, and two, sometimes, sadly, it comes from like our friends and family, where it's like, oh, there's like no money in those fields. So you should try to be something else. For the longest time, it's like, I have family members who are like, oh, like, are you gonna be a doctor now? That, no, like, I don't want him to be a doctor. Like, you probably wouldn't want me to be a doctor anyway, because I wouldn't have that much sympathy for certain things. Anyways.
00:29:18
Speaker
There was it was like a lot of like discouraging why things like, oh, you should be ah a doctor. like you're You're smart. like Why waste it on animals who are working with my own life? So sometimes it can come from that. But then other times, like just being most of my positions, I worked in growing up like from college. like Many times, I was the only black person, but that person of color like in some of my classes. Even in grad school, it was still like that.
00:29:44
Speaker
And most of my positions, I am, if not, one of the few person of color is not the only black person. Even today in my office right now, we have a lot of black individuals that work at the park, but in my um division, I'm the only black and person of color. So it's still ah like, there's a lot of nowadays, there's a lot of black people like in this field, but we're still, I'm not going to say there's a lot, There's more black people and people calling this field, but we're still on spread out and there's still a need for not only like role models, but communities. um So that's why I like, again, I try to be that role model. And eventually my goal is to go step farther and create a nonprofit to um help get
00:30:31
Speaker
natural resources to the community because a lot of times the staying positions that are pushed towards are are the ones that are and pretty much like high pay, clean, height high tech, like being a doctor, being an engineer, but it's not talking about any of the natural resource field where It's not always the best pay if it's what you're passionate about. And that's still good. And depending on how you work at some of these positions, you still can get paid a lot. It's also the positions where a lot of people say, Oh, if I want to do work with natural resources, or work with animals. I got to be a wildlife biologist where I got to get dirty. But no, you can be a GIS person. You can do grant writing. You can create maps. You can write books. You can design like the signs for national parks and while the refuges and so be contributing to conservation and wildlife wildlife. So that's what I eventually want to do is ah create a nonprofit that exposes kids to those fields and positions. We need you, Al. We need you. Yeah, man, that sounds dope. I appreciate it. i' I'm trying. Like, what would you say, folks haven't i'll put this in the show notes to your, uh, your website is pretty dope and there's some pictures on there, some shots from the field. And you're just like, you're out there with the babies, man. You're showing the babies all the stuff in nature, the kids. And like, I, you know, I'm a, I'm a sucker for that. I cry like 10 minutes into every Disney movie. So When I see you out there doing that, just not just having met you and your kind of personality, right? Like what, what kind of advice would you give to teachers or parents or just community members that want to get, you know, the kids out in the nature, like how should they approach it? You know, if you could give them a couple of small points
Engaging Children with Nature
00:32:14
Speaker
of advice.
00:32:14
Speaker
I guess the first thing is to meet them where they are. You gotta go to them or sometimes it takes getting down on your knees and talking to them and listening and not listening to the answer but actually listening. And also just don't really take for, I guess not really granted them maybe not paying attention to you. For instance, when I was working with homeschool kids and we were talking about mushrooms and stuff and there was one kid, wasn't really paying attention. He was looking around at skies and stuff and like next week. He was you.
00:32:52
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. He definitely was me. Yeah, but anyways, we was walking around and then was doing a nature hike a couple weeks later. And he found some mushrooms and he started pointing out, Oh, look, this one has gills. And I'm like, from like a couple weeks ago, it was like he was paying attention, but he was able to like, I was like, Oh, those are gills. And like, so sometimes they're not, you might not think they're paying attention. It depends on how they're, there could be their learning style. For me, like having a PhD, like I fidget a lot. or so if I'm writing stuff down or drawing and doing it, I might not be paying attention exactly to what you're saying, but it's definitely going in and it's getting great in my mind, so don't just say, pick them out if you don't think they're paying attention, but also, you'll be very surprised what they know. Sometimes all it takes is asking, or it's like, just say, hey, can you share something you don't know? Some kids, even at five and six years old, already know what invasive species are, things like that. Make them where they are and don't count them out. Just expose them to as much as you can. And then a lot of, I guess for me, a lot of teachers, they won't be brightest students. And sometimes the brightest students are just not good test takers. So again, it goes back to learning how your students learn and the best way for them to exemplify and and tell you what they have learned and they'll be giving them tests and writing on papers. Lastly, it's just like make sure you're meeting their needs first. You can, like I always say, it's like a lot of people like, oh, they're not doing this or I gave them this, but okay. Yeah, you gave them a book, baby.
00:34:35
Speaker
Are you sure that they understand the book or maybe they understand a book that they're hungry or something. Like you got to check with their knees first. You can't like just be giving themselves in nonsense. It's like don't tell them for me like I like it this way for especially like for being in nature. Everyone wants to be in nature and a lot of times people, organization, parks, even the department natural resources like Hey, we provide access to this place. Okay, you provide access to it. Okay, well, how am I gonna get there? Who's there? Like, is it safe for me to come there? Okay, I got access. Is it just access to the property or did you actually give me keys? Or is like, oh, it was telling them, telling me like, oh, you have access to my house now, go make a sandwich. And then when I get there, like, you don't have anything to make a sandwich with. So like, are you providing the right materials or just having, giving access to be performing to? Yeah, I would say get people outside, access. That conversation, Jay, is something we've talked about a little bit. Having some access, the lack of access, and the impact of that on people of color and nature as a whole. But when we're thinking about nature, Al, I think another cool thing that I admire about you is you also are a hunter.
00:35:50
Speaker
There are some things that I started learning when I was starting to go up to like Horicon Marsh. And when I joined the Southern Wisconsin Bird Alliance, I started learning that a lot of hunters and organizations that represent hunters give a lot to conservation. Like I, would and I never thought about it, right? Like I'm like.
00:36:08
Speaker
Oh, y'all are going out and you're hunting. I never thought about this idea and the relationship between hunting and conservation and nature and imb balance. And I just feel like you, you get that and you're really, really a ah model for that because I see you are even participating in training sessions for hunters of color.
00:36:27
Speaker
and Obviously, you spent time hunting or fishing and exploring with your brothers and uncles as a kid, but what brought you to hunting and and what brought you to trying to educate people about it and bring more people in? Yeah, so for me, like i I grew up fishing and loved it and like I always wanted to go hunt. I knew like I knew at one time, like my granddaddy hunted, but he stopped early before I was born, and I would hear people talking about, oh, I'm going hunting today. There was no one that actually like invited me. There was people like, oh, yeah, come with me any time, but no one was actually like direct and say, hey, let's go hunting, or you can come with me. And that wasn't until I was i was in um Alaska. i um yeah It was where I was casted. I was just in Alaska. Yeah, go ahead. so yeah yeah
00:37:17
Speaker
I was doing some youth work in Alaska after my freshman year of college doing some youth work and another group had came up there to also help with the youth and they happened to be in from Georgia and I was like hanging out with them and one sort of short I nearly like scared the boy to death but anyways like I was walking around the mattress and I went and hid behind a tree and this boy walked by and jumped out like I was a bear. He was scared. After that, he became my mentor. He was getting ready to go to my mentee. He was getting ready to go to college. So I was just helping him out, talking about what colleges like and stuff. And then his family actually invited me hunting on my first deer hunt. And that was like,
00:37:59
Speaker
I think junior year college. So somewhere between like 2013, 2014, somewhere at end
Diversity in Hunting and Personal Interests
00:38:05
Speaker
so then. So they actually invited me out on to go hunting. And like, for me, like, if you go and pitch something out there, I'm gonna accept it. So I was like, Oh yeah, sure. I'll go and went out there with their family for a weekend. Got my first year, got a go, went through the whole process of like, cutting it and cleaning everything out and then taking it to a processor. So I went, that was my first time. And then I was hooked after that, like being able to provide meat for my family, even though at that time, like it was just me eating it. I had to convince like my mom and family to like eat like, it's okay. Like, yeah, it's, it's dear, it's good, but they, they enjoyed it. I got the best venison chili recipe one. Um, so. All right. competitions but that's another story sea turtles and bats and dude man see how yeah how best best smile and birding come on man
00:39:06
Speaker
But yeah, so after that, like I was hooked, and I've been hunting with them several other times. And um like for me, like I was still i was like one of the only like black persons out there. And then right during the pandemic, like um like right before I met Lydia, um one of the co-founders of Hunters of Color. may I followed them and I like ah put in for a mentor goose hunt that was going to be taking place like in 2022 after New Year's. And like I put in a couple like months before I didn't hear back. And then literally, I think it was like christmas or New Year's Eve. So when it caught me and me being the person that I am, I didn't recognize the numbers. So I just said... Straight to voicemail. Right, is exactly.
00:39:54
Speaker
Exactly. And then finally, they called back, they left a voicemail. And then they was like, oh, we're wondering if you're interested in going on a mentor hunt. ah Just give them a call back. So I called and I picked up and Lydia was telling me about a hunt. It's like, oh, yo, you could come on a hunt, but you have to be here by tomorrow. And it was in Memphis. It was just like probably like 10 hours away, maybe.
00:40:16
Speaker
So I was like, oh, yeah, OK. I drove. I picked up, drove across. and It was actually just across ah ah the river ah from Memphis. It was in a small town in Arkansas. It was close to Memphis. I hopped in my car. I told my parents, I was like, hey, I'm about to go hunting. Like, where are you going? I was like, somewhere in Arkansas. Someone
00:40:45
Speaker
Bridge numerous times as a kid to Arkansas to get our fireworks I'm gonna add that to the list of stuff you can't do once you get married. Just go ahead and put that one in. You can't just be a random person calling me to go hunting. They're somewhere in Arkansas. I'm gonna leave tonight, though. I'll see you in a few days. That's definitely one of them. I drove up there when I got there. It was a bunch of people of color. I actually went to America's first, if not still the only, black-owned and created hunting lodges, Black Duck Revival. I just got there, fellowship broke red, and then we woke up and went goose hunting the first day, and it was amazing. I got a couple of snow geese. I got some white-fronted geese, also known as speckled belly. They're a beautiful bird, and they taste really good. But anyway, so we got them, harvest them, and then we learned how to process them, cook some of them. And then one cook of this, we also had raccoon the night before, and it was really good. But it was like, me being a biologist, it was on the grill, and I was like... familiar.
00:41:59
Speaker
um I was like, that's for me. That ain't no regular meat. I knew it it was a raccoon. And then i finally, like, um the owner of Black Dog Arrivals was telling me, oh, yeah, it's a raccoon. And he like told us how he cooked it and everything. Yeah, it was really good. He made it into like pulled like pork. It was like pulled raccoon like sliders or some homemade burger sauce. It was really good. Just like having that community led me like to wanting to like actually bring that community to Georgia and it took a while because I don't know like I'm busy and most of my work has been like outside of Georgia like I worked in Texas I worked in Louisiana, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania so I had that live in Georgia for a while. So like Lydia and Jimmy, um the co-founders of 100 Color, they'll sound like, oh yeah yeah, you should create a chapter, be an ambassador ah for hundreds of colors. I was like, yeah, I'll do it eventually. But then finally last year. It happened and um I finally knew I was going to settle down and be in Georgia for a while so I could take up um some time to do that. And like I said, going back to that first hunt, just been around like so many like people of color. and b
00:43:13
Speaker
safe space where like we don't have to have our walls and guards up. We just talk freely amongst each other. like Because at any time, some of the spaces that are accessible or we're invited to, you still got your guard up. And it's like, I'll tell you this, bang tell everything you know but Around the states, all the walls could be dropped and we could just talk how we wanted to, eat what we wanted to, not have to worry about. like Someone say, oh, like why do you eat this? Or, or why why are you talking like this? Or, oh, this is your first hunt? Or, like oh, you're a city boy.
00:43:47
Speaker
I was able to just freely talk and have those conversations. but I wanted to bring eventually bring that to Georgia. and So I did. And this year I was able to um host a mentor hunt, host a day at the range, and host a camping day to teach people how to count. I was able to be in the stand. or actually technically we were in the blind with one of the hunters that I was working with. I know his cousin from Hunters of Color. And so I've been able to like connect with him and invite him to this mentor hunt. And I was able to be in the blind and like watch his whole like technique. and coaching on like the deer that's coming from this way. We're just coaching everything and watching him actually harvest his first deer. So that was like amazing. Like when I harvest my first deer, like someone invited me, but I was in the stand by myself, but it was just a total different experience to be able to like see someone get their first deer and like go through like those emotions with them and see um how they react to like harvesting the first animal, the respect that they gave. and then just being able to provide them, not only for them for this year, for their family, but since that new skill is learned, being able to provide for the future generations and the rest of the like this year and continue on. So it was just amazing to see that. So I definitely want to continue that. encourage more people of color, especially Black people, to um get out on the land. Because for many times, like in the olden days, like hunting and fishing was another way that we, if not one of the only ways that we got most of our meals, because let's face it, sadly, when we were enslaved, we were getting only shrouds. So we're still making a making meals out of nothing, but to help supplement all that little we were giving, we were hunting, fishing, and trapping.
00:45:36
Speaker
So I definitely wanted us to ask bike crew to get back to our roots and not only with like being hunting and fishing, but also just being outside and outdoors. Some of the first park rangers were blackened visuals, the Buffalo Soldiers, and even some of the national parks um where at least the infrastructure was created. by Black Engine Visuals working as a CCC crew, conservation corps members on building some of the framework and buildings. So I definitely want us to get back to our roots and not just get back to our roots, but actually know the roots. Yes, we have been outdoors. We always have been. And like it's a space for us all. Yeah, man. Yeah. I mean, like, yeah, yeah like that's, that's, hoof man, that, that experience and like, just that happening by chance, like meeting somebody in Alaska and like kind of lighting that fire in you. And then the fact that that could have gone out, but then you met a group that was aligned to exactly what you needed, right. And hunters of color, right. And I, and I've certainly learned more about hunting through you and that group things that I thought before, I don't think anymore because I've heard you talk about it. I've heard them talk about it. And it's from a different context than maybe what I grew up learning. And I think that's true for a lot of us. Um, you know, and I, I just, I, I love the idea of the self sufficiency there too, as well. Right. Like granted, I love the birds. I'm probably not going to go goose hunting, but I trust you when you say they're delicious. but I want to kind of switch gears a little bit because with all of this going on, you still find time to get outside and take these dope photos. Like it's crazy. Like everybody listens to his podcast is wait, wait, wait. Not only does he make the chili, but he does other things too. like ah
00:47:20
Speaker
You take some dope photography. It's, it's obviously in the spaces that you are, right? You keep casually dropping these random places that you are like Alaska. Have you thought about like, do you have like a, yeah I definitely encourage folks to check out your Instagram and some of your photography and what we'll link it all in show notes. Do you have like a dream place you would want to go photograph birds or a dream species, or even if it's not a bird, if it's another member of nature, special bat, other than the ah Mexican and Brazilian freetailed bats.
00:47:46
Speaker
There's a couple like I really want to go to like South America and and see the Harpy Eagle. She feels stork. Oh, that's the one. I definitely want to see those. And where are we going? We said there's going to go together. Where are we going? Let's go. I'm ready for this wedding. Let's create a group chat tonight. Let's go. Let's go.
00:48:17
Speaker
eagle we go after we got me yes yes thats i definitely I definitely want to go see those two birds and then like, um I haven't seen a wolf in the in the wild. Well, allegedly I seen one when I was in Wisconsin, bad and get a good look. It could have just been a big dog. um I really want to see ah a wolf in a while. And then I want to see a red panda. ah So I definitely want to go to places to see those. ah badro this man Yeah. I yeah got to get back to when they get down and the red pandas get scared. are Red pandas, they just jump up and they put their hands up. Like they brought the throw hands. Right. And they just looked so surprised. It's like the best thing I've ever seen. Right. It definitely, it definitely looks like somebody is like, like, like, bro, like you don't want it. Right. yeah so why that
00:49:10
Speaker
yeah i know right I saw one get scared by a rock. Like it just came around and there was a rock that somebody had moved that wasn't in that spot before. And it just got all up and I was like, oh, you're relaxed. you know Yeah, they're awesome, man. Oh, right. Yeah. So those those are definitely. my list Alex, this this has been great. i like I'm looking it up. like Every time, the hour, we hit an hour, Jay. And I'm like how like, how? How has this been an hour? We have very much enjoyed this. And thank you for sharing not only your your bird joy, but your you' just your joy for nature as a whole with our listeners today. This has been very inspiring, educational, the whole nine. I just love it. I'm so happy we were able to make this happen. So happy. Where should folks be looking to stay connected with you if they want to learn more about what you've got going on? Yeah, so you definitely can check me out on Instagram at nature underscore L and that's in the number eight T-U-R-E underscore A-L. It's the same on X and eventually it will be the same on blue sky on one side get set up. You also catch me on my website. You can Google that. I'll link it.
00:50:23
Speaker
Yes, link it went in on Facebook and then eventually stay tuned for some natural merch that will be dropping.
00:50:39
Speaker
yeah Um, man, Alex, thank you so much, man. This was so great. Just, I enjoy hearing you laugh here. You talk about all these stories and it's just, I imagine there are some folks out there that are hearing and being like, man, this brother was in Malaysia or in Borneo and then he was casually in Alaska. You study and see turtles in the middle of nowhere. Like I just, it is so inspiring man. And that the fact that you carry it with such grace and respect and just this endless seems like endless supply of curiosity, man, just kudos to you. And and thanks again for spending some time with us. Yeah. The epitome of representation right here on the bird joy podcast with
00:51:34
Speaker
yes, yes, and the homies in Philly, you know what, incolorbirding.org. We're putting some winter birding on the calendar soon, and we hope to see y'all out there. Yes, please share, subscribe, and shout out the podcast to all your fellow birders and nature lovers. Help us spread a little joy. Thanks again, Al. Thanks, Al. You're welcome.