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Riding on the Wings of Joy with Dr. J. Drew Lanham
929 Plays15 days ago
The second episode of The Bird Joy Podcast features hosts Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall in conversation with their "dream guest," Dr. J. Drew Lanham, a distinguished wildlife ecologist, professor, poet, and author. The episode delves into Dr. Lanham's deep connections to nature, starting with his childhood on The Home Place and the influence of his grandmother.
The discussion explores themes of land, identity, and belonging for Black individuals in landscapes with a history of slavery, referencing Dr. Lanham's book The Home Place. It also discusses the realities of "Birding While Black," including the experience of being watched and the question of safety, while also touching on the progress and necessary changes brought about by initiatives like Black Birders Week.
A significant portion of the conversation centers on the concept of "Joy as Justice," the title of Dr. Lanham's latest poetry collection. They explore why joy is central to his work and its meaning as a form of resistance. They also discuss navigating grief alongside the wonder of nature.
The hosts and Dr. Lanham touch upon the power of storytelling in conservation, blending science with poetry, and the impact of his writing, referencing his BirdNote episode "For Lindsay." The episode concludes with a discussion on legacy, advice for young Black and Brown nature enthusiasts, and Dr. Lanham's hopes for the future of birding and the outdoors.
The hosts thanked Dr. Lanham and provided information on where listeners can find his work before signing off. They also shouted out relevant organizations and called listeners to action.
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Transcript
Introduction to Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
You're tuned in to season three of the Bird Joy podcast hosted by Dexter Patterson and Jason Hall. This podcast is for all the homies across the globe, a place to celebrate birds, community, and joy together.
00:00:15
Speaker
We're back with more stories from the birding world, more voices doing dope work in STEM, and more reasons to get outside and enjoy the birds. Are you ready for some bird joy? Let's go.
00:00:28
Speaker
Today, today, today, today.
Conversation with Dr. J. Drew Lanham
00:00:31
Speaker
um man, today we are honored, we are truly honored to be joined by a guest whose voice has helped shape how we see nature, how we carry joy, and how we find belonging in the great outdoors.
00:00:44
Speaker
Yeah, Dr. J. Drew Lanham is a wildlife ecologist, a distinguished professor at Clemson University, and a writer whose work bridges not only science, but poetry, history, and most importantly, heart. He's the author of The Home Place, a memoir that explores identity, land, race, and kinship with the natural world.
00:01:04
Speaker
His latest book? Joy is the Justice We Give Ourselves is a soul-starring collection of poetry that causes us calls us to hold joy, even in the face of injustice. Dr. Lanham doesn't just study the wild, he lives it, teaches it, and gifts us the language to love it better.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm going to tell you this. You are at the top of the list of our dream guests for this podcast. We've been talking about it for a while. And to say that we've been looking forward to this conversation is a bit of an understatement. I will say that. Drew, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the Bird Joy podcast.
00:01:38
Speaker
I know our homies out there are going to love this episode. Let's go. Dexter Jason, thank you. Let's go. Let's go. This is all
Celebrating Passion and Purpose with Birds
00:01:49
Speaker
good. It's all good. And both of you, thank you for inviting me into this space where we can celebrate passion, where we can celebrate purpose, um and and and where we can move our lives into sort of a different space with with these non-human beings who inspire us to be better human beings.
00:02:11
Speaker
That's kind of funky, right? Yeah. But beautifully so in a way that we can be in a space and um and be ourselves and be ourselves. And that, you know, for me, you know, you'll hear me say not only is it about identifying birds, but it's about identifying with birds.
00:02:34
Speaker
birds And so I know that both of you, Jason and and Dexter, both y'all are into it. So it's it's it's my honor. It's my pleasure to be here today. I'm so fired up, bro. I'm so fired up. One of the things that I really loved about the home place is that I found myself immediately relating to certain situations, descriptions of places, feelings in nature. And that's what immediately hooked me. And I actually didn't read it first. I actually listened to the audio book first because I enjoy um the way you speak. And I wanted to hear the inflection of the stories. Right.
00:03:10
Speaker
And now anything I read of yours, I hear your voice in my head when I do it. Can you take us back to your childhood on the home place?
Childhood and Connection to Nature
00:03:16
Speaker
Like what moments or mentors like your grandmother and her red birds, like what pivotal memories do you have that first connected you to nature?
00:03:24
Speaker
Wow. It, you know, it was, it was like from the beginning almost because we were so far back in the woods. Backwoods doesn't quite do it justice really. And as a kid, you know, it's being surrounded with green. It's being, it's having birds as your best friends. It's, it's knowing that the land supports you, that it's, it's not an adversary, but it's an ally.
00:03:51
Speaker
It's, it's, being in wonder um because there are these little black commas in a puddle, right, that that make you pause and those black commas turn out to be tadpoles. And in that moment of pausing to understand that, you know, life can exist in that place and then hearing a bird above you and looking up and seeing not just the red bird that your grandmother had taught you about, but a red bird with black wings. And then you got to find out what kind of red bird
Embracing Wildness and Naturalism
00:04:24
Speaker
is this? So, you know, those were were moments and they were like daily for me because I grew up between two households. And so that means in a way, I kind of didn't grow up in a household.
00:04:37
Speaker
and And wildness became the place where I was most comfortable. It became the place where um I didn't have to worry about being judged or getting a whip in or getting in trouble.
00:04:48
Speaker
And so the the birds again and and wildness became... the place where I was most comfortable. So I learned in some ways how to talk to birds. I learned how to be a naturalist. I learned how to be me in that space.
00:05:05
Speaker
in that space And so it was at the It was a little paradise in ways. Guys, the thing that's funny was that when I would go to school, you know all the suburban kids would talk about skating, and they had sidewalks, and they could ride their bikes on pavement.
00:05:26
Speaker
And they would go to skating rinks and birthday parties. I didn't do any of that. it was It was isolating in ways. and And so that that sort of carries through with me today and how I find myself.
00:05:42
Speaker
right I love it. I love you mentioned birds allows us to be ourselves. And it sounds like you you found yourself early. You found out that nature just wasn't background for you early. You found that it was a part of who you were early.
00:05:59
Speaker
um And it allowed you to be your full self. That is super powerful because I think so many of us, and myself included, struggle to walk in their purpose in life. And to be able to get that as such an a young, young age, I think that is just a a true blessing, Drew.
00:06:14
Speaker
Well, the Dexter, it was right that and and things just came naturally. They fell naturally. But I wasn't always comfortable in it because I thought that other people had it better than me.
00:06:30
Speaker
right because Because they had some conveniences or things that sounded fun that most kids were doing. you know I would see stuff on on TV that other kids would do. And I'm like, I can't do that. I can't go out and skate.
00:06:45
Speaker
Yeah. So I've got to figure out, I've got to figure out how to, to do something that's fun. And so, yeah, birds did, and wildness did allow that, that sort of freedom.
00:06:56
Speaker
But I'll, I'll tell you what, Dexter, part of what happened to me, finding it early and sort of being in it, but not really understanding the value of it led to me losing it for a while.
Societal Pressures and Passion for Ornithology
00:07:08
Speaker
You know, I sort of let, I sort of let peer pressure and and And maybe insecurity take it away when other people began to look at me and tell me who I was.
00:07:22
Speaker
I wasn't just being me. They began to tell me, oh, you know you're a black kid kid that's it's good at math and science. You should be an engineer. Black people don't do what you claim you want to do.
00:07:34
Speaker
An ornithologist? What's that? No. You need to be an engineer. You need to make money this way. And that thing that you say you love, you really don't love it that much because that's not what we do. Wow.
00:07:46
Speaker
Makes me think of Les Brown. He has a quote. ah Other people's opinion of you is not your reality. You know, like shout out to Les Brown, because when I hear that that, that I mean, I got goosebumps listening to that because I felt like that for so long. And that what kept me from sharing my love for birds with people for so long because they've like, birds, birds.
00:08:07
Speaker
And honestly, I've never been happier until I found birds, until I started to embrace that bird nerd in me. Thank you for saying that. I know there's a lot of people out there that have felt like that or maybe feeling like that. And hopefully they can find some some solace in those words.
Lessons of Self-Love from Birds
00:08:22
Speaker
Well, it it is a matter of, you know, loving self first. You think that by satisfying others, that by jumping through all the hoops that they put up for you, that you're going to please them. and And for a good portion of my life, that's who I've been, you know, wanting to please others. So if they said I was supposed to be so-and-so, then I was going to be so-and-so and do so-and-so.
00:08:44
Speaker
And it it really led to kind of a dangerous point, right? And depression and and really, again, insecurity. So finding the light Self-love, in a way, takes you to a different place. And birds, again, are in that space to be nonjudgmental.
00:09:02
Speaker
Birds aren't trying to tell me what to be. They're just being themselves. They're so busy being themselves, which is what we ought to be all busy doing, being ourselves instead of trying to arrange somebody else's life.
00:09:16
Speaker
And so that there were lessons daily in what birds are and what I am. and for what I strive to be. So well put. And that's something I absolutely relate to. i think Dexter as well, just being in these STEM fields, right? I spent most of my career in a lab and sometimes kick myself like, man, you know, you love them birds. Why'd you go get in this lab? You know? But it's been a good it's been a good and great career. But it's something that similarly, if you're a black or brown person good at science, there's a certain path that you kind of get pushed down a little bit. And I was there with a bunch of my other peers. And it's funny how much of us now are now getting back into the outdoors and trying to trying to connect with this land. And and Drew, on that on that front, you've said the land in spite of its history still holds hope.
00:10:06
Speaker
What does claiming belonging to these landscapes that carry, say, such a history and weight, like like what does that mean in terms
Reclaiming Landscapes and Community
00:10:14
Speaker
of finding hope? Like it seems like such a counterintuitive thought to some, you know?
00:10:18
Speaker
Well, yeah, and i and I get it, right? There's a lot of pain, blood, sweat, tears in in the land, not and not just in the South, all over this country, for us, for our indigenous brothers and sisters and others. And so that's not our fault.
00:10:35
Speaker
right That's not our fault. And so the the land that we were forced to toil on is also land that supported us. It's not the land's fault. It's not the land's fault. And so I have to ah have to look at… land I have to look at a tree, even a tree that may have had violence visited up on it.
00:10:59
Speaker
Right. And I need to be in community with that tree. We need to have a conversation because we've both had the violence visited up on us. In that way, I want us black and people of color.
00:11:14
Speaker
I want us to embrace nature in a way that people have pushed us away from it. And so for many years when people would ask me the question, well, how can we get more black and brown folks involved in nature? And and we start going down all these paths of, well, we need to do this. We need to do that. Well, really what needs to happen is the folks out there who want us involved need to look at how we are involved.
00:11:39
Speaker
It's not new. it's It's not new. So in order for us to embrace it and in order for us to to really have the stake in it that we have put in it, the investment that we've put, we don't need to have people telling us how we should be and any place.
00:11:59
Speaker
sort of way. And ah and and not I'm not dismissing well-meaning folks who would say, oh, you know, it'd be nice if you were involved in this or nice if you were involved in that. Come join us. But no, how about you come join me?
00:12:11
Speaker
See how I'm doing it. So it's it's like I tell folks, um you know, I grew up fishing. And fishing was critical. It was important in my exposure to the outdoors. And I had a ton of fun doing it. and um And it wasn't just about the fish on the end of the line, but it was the whole experience. It was the rushing water. It was hearing all these birds around me. and now I wish I could go back and you know call these birds right by name.
00:12:36
Speaker
But at the end of the day... At the end of the day, the fishing wasn't about catch and release until it was pan of grease. That sustenance that those fish provided was was food for the body, but the experience was food for the soul.
00:12:51
Speaker
So we have been experiencing that. The only way that we have fished. come to this point in our history is because we rode ah on the wings of joy. That's the only way. You can't live in despair and find yourself really anywhere, but in in some hellish place. And so to overcome as we have overcome, there's been joy there. To overcome as we've overcome, people have looked skyward and seen birds and And they may not have called them Wood Thrush, Scarlet Tanager, or Bobolink. We called them by some name that helped us recognize them as individuals who had distinct things to say. Back to that tide of land, to have people, and and think about this, all right?
00:13:39
Speaker
When people are trying to push you away from something, you need to hold fast. and and And there's a history of people, when we've had the chance to be on land, of them pushing us away from it, of them divesting us from it. You know you think about Special Field Order 15, the 40 acres and a mule, when William Tecumseh Sherman didn't know what to do with all those refugees that followed him on the march from Atlanta to the sea. And he telegraphs Lincoln, and Lincoln says, as you handle it. And Sherman who was no friend of the Negro, but Sherman did the right thing. Sherman said, you know what? For people to work the land here, 40 acres and a mule.
00:14:16
Speaker
Well, then somebody decides after Lincoln's assassination, they want to make America great again. So what does Johnson do? Johnson takes that land away from from us, divest us of the land. And then we are cast back into, you know, slave enslavement part two with sharecropping and Jim Crow. Again, i look at that situation and I say, that doesn't mean you run from land. Again, the land didn't wrong you, right?
00:14:46
Speaker
Policy and humans who made the policy wrongs you. So I want us to write. That's been an issue. That's been an issue. For a long time.
00:14:58
Speaker
Yeah. And it's it's such a yeah and and it's it's, I don't think a lot of us enter the land with that thought, right? Is that the land is this unbiased, essentially arbiter of our joy. It does not carry the history of the humans that step foot on it. And and it's, that's interesting because I wanted to talk about the nine rules for the black bird watcher, right? Asking ourselves constantly, are we in a, are we in a safe place?
00:15:20
Speaker
You know, I do want to ask you if that has evolved with you as time has gone on, especially in these current times. I realize now that when I ask myself that question, I don't ask myself that question about the tree or the bird or even the bobcat that may be out there in the woods somewhere. Like I'm literally asking it about the humans that may be in that space more than I am the land itself. And that's just such a profound thought. So is that is that how you kind of enter the space now still? Is like acknowledging the land is that kind of tabula rasa blank space for you to find joy? Yeah.
00:15:51
Speaker
Exactly. Blank slate, right? it's Look, I've been fortunate to to be in landscapes where I'm just another lump of protein. I may be dark meat for a grizzly, but on on that day, what it is going to choose is based in part on me being aware and me being respectful. But I will tell you, I have never felt safer than being in those spaces. And so, no, it's my responsibility To know, you know, I see the bear and I understand that I need to keep a distance. I need to be respectful. um I let the bear know that I'm there in a calm voice and I speak and I go on my way.
00:16:35
Speaker
watch maybe from a respectful distance, bear maybe rises up, gain some sense of who I am by its nose, and then drops to all fours or maybe gives me a warning and says, hey, you know what? You're too close.
00:16:48
Speaker
Then I move back. I'm respectful. We have a relationship in that way. I don't go on land and think, oh man, the land's going to get me. I can go to a place, right?
00:17:00
Speaker
A place that may have land under it, where I could say those those people here don't have my best interest at heart. So that's, you know, when I talk about range maps and i and I talk about that sort of concept, I know that there are places that I can point to on a map and I can say, well, you know what?
00:17:22
Speaker
People there did something and are doing things that aren't safe maybe for me to be there. So if I want to go, you know, see, I don't know, Chukar, for example, Well, I'm going to find somewhere to go see Chukar that's not a white supremacist homeland, so
Safety in Nature Versus Human Harm
00:17:40
Speaker
to speak. Maybe and don't I'm not going go to the stovepipe of Idaho to see those birds because there's some people up there who would just as soon see my life in. Yeah.
00:17:51
Speaker
But I don't blame that. Man, I have some lovely people, um great friends in Idaho. Yeah. But I don't blame the land. I don't blame the chukar. I don't blame the rocks where and the scree slope where the chukar might be. It's those people who don't have the decency to see my humanity, to see that kind of humanity. That's who I blame.
00:18:13
Speaker
You know, it's so wild because so many of us, and when I say us, I'm talking about black and brown folks, we lost that connection to the land. I was talking to my dad and my family also grew up in Tunica, Mississippi, and they were on sharecropped land. And my grandma was born in a barn and they used to raise hogs when they were little kids and stuff. And then they moved to Memphis and they lost this connection to the land. They no longer grew their own food. When they first, it was kind of funny because when they first moved there, they would be like harvesting animals on the porch and stuff. And the city folks thought they were crazy, right? Like they're like, who is these country boys from from Mississippi coming up into Memphis, skin and raccoons and deer on the porch and stuff. I was just like laughing with my dad about this. But at the same time, I was heartbroken because not only did they have land, they had houses.
00:19:05
Speaker
And along the way, they lost the land. They lost the houses because relatives passed on and they didn't have a plan in place to pass that on to his only and oldest, right? His only son. Right. So I started thinking about like that disconnect and that disconnect kind of started to create fear. We're like, oh, that's not for us.
00:19:24
Speaker
Those rural areas is not for us. Those woods. Are you crazy? Those woods are not for us. And when I think about you and when you talk about in the home place about black men being the rare bird, we're the oddity. I think that's where that kind of started. It kind of started because the disconnect fell. from those lands from generation to generation started to happen because our ancestors were enslaved and lynched and all these different things in these places. And we have to try to reconcile that as we're starting to search for our joy. And I start looking at us now, Drew.
00:19:56
Speaker
And I'm seeing the rise of Black Birders Week, right? Shout out to Black AF and STEM and all the people there that have been leading the charge there. But it's just given us so much visibility for black and brown folks outside. And I would love to hear your thoughts on that. Do you feel like that movement, you know, in itself has helped us
Inclusivity and Cultural Heritage in Birding
00:20:16
Speaker
make progress? Does it give you hope? What else still needs to change there?
00:20:20
Speaker
Oh, for sure. I mean, that that movement, and and you look, that movement was born in the shadow, in that ghastly shadow of George Floyd's murder. And seeing it grow from there and involve, but not just involve, but immerse people in us.
00:20:40
Speaker
That is, again, to understand who we are. And not just to identify us and to cast us all into the same lot, but to say, you know, that's that's Dexter, that's Jason, that's Drew, that's Lauren, that's Murray, that's all these people.
00:20:58
Speaker
And they are individuals who have shared passion. they They share culture. They share culture. They share a deep history, but they are individuals. And so when you get to the point where people can say,
00:21:12
Speaker
oh, well, there's one or two, but you say, wait a minute, I can't name all of them. um Then that is improvement. That's that's hope.
00:21:23
Speaker
And when people don't drop their binoculars um to just say, hi to you, Dexter, hi, Jason, hi, Drew, because you're different, but they drop their binoculars to say hi to you because they want to tell you where the Swainson's warbler is or whatever bird it is, then, you know, you're moving into a different space. And I tell, i tell folks, and and maybe I said it in nine rules, it it always, uh,
00:21:50
Speaker
it's ah It's funny, and I guess, as my father used to say, laughable but not funny, in how you'd have people who could identify birds almost by the rictal bristle.
00:22:02
Speaker
And there would be these minor differences in birds. You'd like, wait a minute, you saw what? But then they couldn't tell us apart, right? Nope. Because we were all cast into that same pot. That same lot. I am from Wisconsin all the time when I talk to people. Yeah, I used to get that all the time. If it's two of us at the same time together, oh they don't know what to do. Well, look, I will tell you that Daxter, Jason, we have played with that. My brothers, we have played with that. We said, oh, we've sort of like taken bets. Let's see how many times I'm calling you and you are calling me.
00:22:42
Speaker
And sure enough, we would come back and we would say over under, we would say, you know, brother, um you know do you know, Dudley Edmondson or Doug. Dudley, shout out to Dudley. You know, Dudley and Doug.
00:22:53
Speaker
And I say, okay. And we come back and we say, oh, yeah, they called me Drew four times. they say, well, they called me Dudley Six. You know, they called me Doug. So we said, man, what do we have to do? Let's get, I don't know, birdie jerseys with our names. We're not wearing name tags in the field now? Right. That's crazy.
00:23:11
Speaker
No, you're going recognize me by my rictal bristles. Right. Oh, good. You're going to look at my epilepsy. Oh, I'm done. I'm done right now. This is so funny. I'm getting name tags.
00:23:27
Speaker
I guess that's just more proof than that we're we're the rare bird in the oddity, I guess. They don't know what to do. But we're coming, you know, and it and it is hopeful, though. You know, you asked the question. it is It is very hopeful. And again, i think about the time spent with with Lauren Farr and in being out in the field and and watching her progress and watching her grow and watching others and seeing y'all, right?
00:23:52
Speaker
Like I said, Dexter, you're saying, come on, you want to see the screech out? Come on, let's see it. And just going at it in this way and unabashedly being you and loving these birds and being... yourself, that's hopeful.
00:24:05
Speaker
That's encouraging. That inspires me. And so we don't have to be anybody else. We can be ourselves and love birds. And that's joy. that's That's hope. Well, number one, I'm going to say, if anyone is putting down binoculars to tell me where Swainson's Warbly is, I am accepting all friendships.
Personal Reflections on Bird Encounters
00:24:22
Speaker
yeah have my phone Yeah, man, we had one touchdown in the middle of Philly last year in the middle of a tiny little pocket park downtown old old town Philly last year. And the homies saying for had to be a week and a half just first when it just and it just echoed to these empty concrete buildings that surrounded it. It was it was absolutely incredible. was my first one. And people were always like, hey, guys, what like what does the what does the song sound like? they were like, listen, when you hear it, you will know. You know it. And it's just this pointed, melodic. And it just, can you know how like sometimes you hear a pileated, and it kind of echoes through the forest, and you kind of know you can hear that more than you do when you hear like a northern flicker? Yeah. That's Swainson's, man. That that is a bird that I will never forget. So when you mentioned it, it made me made me think of that experience. Well, it's, you know, and that's what makes it special. That's what puts us in ah in a space with birds to to love them. And I'm not afraid to use that word. And I think that's important, that that's another dimension of joy is love. And so to love birds, to recognize that individual who sang for a week or more,
00:25:33
Speaker
And the echo, and and here it is, sort of out of place, right? Out of place, but still being itself. It wasn't quite. It was like, I got a song to sing. It's that time, and I need i need to be heard.
00:25:44
Speaker
And if when you watch a bird sing, and that's one of the ways I like teaching people bird song. It's one thing for them to hear the song. It's another thing for them to see a silent bird, but when they see a bird sing. A couple of years ago, I was watching a wormy sing from a perch. and And, you know, that, I mean, it's not the most melodic song. It's just sort of this staccato chip.
00:26:04
Speaker
And, but when, or trill, and finally seeing that bird and watching that bird's whole body just vibrate. I love it.
00:26:17
Speaker
And I watched that bird for more than an hour because it was sitting just in a shaft of sunlight in this deep, Southern Appalachian Cove where it should be.
00:26:31
Speaker
And it was just singing its heart out, but its whole body reverberated. And I couldn't call that anything else but joy. And I'm making all kinds of assumptions and that science can't prove, but science can't disprove. So...
00:26:47
Speaker
In that instance, you know, that you saw the Swainsons or I saw the wormy or we see, watch a robin. I've been watching robins just, you know, they'll they'll run across the lawn, they'll do what they do. They'll pull the worm, they'll cock their heads, they'll do all the robin things. But then you can see a robin just sit down in the yard, right?
00:27:06
Speaker
And just sit. And it just sits there. And I watched this bird one day just sit. And it was just chilling. And Peterson, Roger Torrey Peterson said, Robin is the bird that everybody knows.
00:27:17
Speaker
Well, I really want to know you, Robin. I want to know, you know, I want to know that peace, especially these days. You know, that peace to be able to be still for a moment and just enjoy what is.
00:27:29
Speaker
So that's what birds do for me. Y'all know I love me a Robin. That is the state bird of Wisconsin. I always tell people, I think they take them for granted because like you mentioned, everybody knows a Robin. I talk to people and like, the all I know is a Robin. I thought every bird was a Robin. But it's so funny, I still get so excited every time I see a Robin. And that's when I was like, dude, birds are for you. Because I noticed that I get excited. Jason and I have talked about this. I get excited when I see every little male house finch. And I just get, I get really fired up by these common, you know, regular birds because I know we're not promised to have them. I'm not promised another day here. We're not promised to have these birds this year or next year or whatever it may be.
00:28:11
Speaker
And I remember telling people, what if we called it the American thrush? Would it be cooler? Look, hey, you know, that's or guess what, Robin, you you are who you are.
00:28:23
Speaker
And i used to, you know, science tells us, well, we shouldn't name wild animals, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah I tell people, you know, you call that bird. You can call a Robin Turtis Migratorius. You can call it American Robin. You can call it whatever.
00:28:40
Speaker
If you respect that being and who it is, then I think that puts you in a space and you watch it respectfully. And if you're noticing, truly noticing, you'll see the Robin notice you.
00:28:50
Speaker
And relationships develop between us and wildness um where, no, if you're respectful, that non-human beings will sort of show themselves to you in these ways. And so in that aspect, I think...
00:29:06
Speaker
that those those common birds that we see that we take for granted, like you said, Dexter, you know at some point somebody said, oh, it's just a passenger pigeon. Oh my God, there are billions of them. Somebody said that.
00:29:16
Speaker
And so we we may don't we don't want to, hey, there's just too many of them, right? Just, oh my God. you know Yeah, they killed a million of them, but they keep coming. To not have some bird with a name be the last bird, it's okay to think about all the birds and to identify with them in ways that you understand their individuals. I i remember back during the pandemic watching Cardinals, and i was I'll admit, I was sitting in the backyard, and and I kept waiting for rose-breasted grosbeaks. I was like looking at and checking time and saying, okay, y'all, come on, I need...
00:29:53
Speaker
I need that flash because, I mean, that's what dire times, remember? Because you would yourself to see if you could breathe, if stuff was, you know, what was going on. But then I started noticing cardinals. I mean, and they were all over the place. I mean, then I started seeing them as individuals and noticing that every cardinal wasn't the same red.
00:30:12
Speaker
And that that there was this one female cardinal with an overbite. and and And so they became individuals to me. And so I try to treat birds in that way. You know, the variation in color for house finches, Dexter, you know, you talk about them and watching them.
00:30:30
Speaker
Or the other day I saw my first breeding plumage goldfinch. And as as quote unquote common as goldfinches are, when you first see that, it's startling, right? you're like, whoa, hey, what was that you know meteor that just streaked across the yard? And it's a goldfinch. Then you look at the female and you look at the subtleties of of of those colors and sort of that own their own individual beauty.
00:30:57
Speaker
And so all of that puts us in a different space to appreciate birds. And I hope it puts us in a different space to appreciate one another. I've always thought maybe if if if I had a bird name, yeah it would be more memorable and people wouldn't call me by somebody else's name. And we all make mistakes, right? I've made mistakes in calling people other names. But you know when it becomes a sort of systemic thing and people don't care and You know, it's just a robin.
00:31:24
Speaker
suggest ah it's It's just a cardinal. There goes that person. You know, he's this or he's that based upon some assumption of who it is that I'm supposed to be in your eye.
00:31:37
Speaker
Well, then that's being dismissive. And I don't want to be dismissive of beings. And birds, to again, birds teach me that. They teach me not to be dismissive of beings.
00:31:48
Speaker
those individuals that are different, not to assume that all of them are the same. There are lessons to be learned. And I think, you know, back to the home place, that's part of what happened for me there. Cause I, you know, i talk about bobwhite quail all the time that were common birds when I was a boy, you know, and from y'all's Mississippi home places, they were common there, but guess what?
00:32:09
Speaker
They're not common anymore. They're not common anymore. I haven't, I haven't seen a quail in the wild in about five years. I love them too. I didn't even know what they were for a while. I went to Cape May and I was there trying to, i was trying to find a scissor tail fly catcher or something that someone had seen the day before and there was no one else at Cape May point in this parking lot.
00:32:30
Speaker
And I got there before the sunrise and I'm standing on this boardwalk and I just hear that. And I'm like, what in the world? Then I hear an echo from across the other way, then another one over here. And I'm like, you know, this is before Merlin and I was kind of early in my birding career. And like, I turned around and this chunky little thing is sitting on the rail, right? Like 10 feet from me. And I watched it whistle and then hop down and run away like a little weirdo. And I was just, I didn didn't care about the flycatcher anymore. I was like...
00:32:58
Speaker
I was like, who invented this bird? Because I need to give them credit. It is the most amazing little thing. And i and then I got sad because when I started to like, you know, I put stuff on the chat or whatever and people were yeah, you know, they used to be all around Southern New Jersey. They used to be here. They used to be there. So really lucky that you got to see those. And it made me sad that like we don't have them anymore, you know? And and I could imagine what it was like back in the day to wake up to that cacophony of those birds sometimes just echoing through pine forest down south. Like they had to be tremendous.
00:33:28
Speaker
Well, and that's how things change, you know, that, well, let me tell you, first of all, Cape May Point, nobody being there, first of all, that. It was tremendous. And then to see that bird, but that's when we have these relationships. That's when we begin to bond with birds in this way, in the unexpected, and you're alone, and suddenly it's just you And that quail, that Bob White quail, and you got to watch it sing.
00:33:55
Speaker
And you'll never, ever forget that, Jason. And it's you can almost, when you're close enough to some birds, you can almost feel their songs. Mm-hmm. And and that that gets you to a point of, man, all kinds of things. For me as a kid, it was wanting to be a bird, sometimes wanting to be a quail, sometimes wanting to be a hawk, sometimes just wanting to know what that bird's life was like. And and so I feel um it's it's a privilege to be able to study birds and to have birds as my work.
00:34:26
Speaker
you know and I'll go ahead and use the B word, man. it's It's a blessing, really. All kinds of ways for me to be able to spend the time that I do with them and with and with folks like y'all who who love birds.
00:34:37
Speaker
and We can say it, man, we love birds. That's, look, yeah. Love them. Love them. There we go. That was thrush-like. Yeah. See, you know, yeah's sometimes I get lucky, you know, where you get live singing from, from, from Dexter. So, you know, that was pretty sweet. That right there. Oh, you talk about a little bit, you talk about navigating both grief and, and wild awe.
00:35:07
Speaker
And this really kind of like made me think of a recent conversation I had with Rodney Stotts. Hmm. The master falconer, right? Author of Bird Brother. And Rodney, i mean, he's been these last month or two, he's just been really, really kind of a key part of my life. I've kind of been going through some some struggles.
00:35:28
Speaker
And he was like, call me. Not a, oh, keep your head up. None of that. He said, call me. And I was like, OK. So I called this brother and and he was man, I just I can't tell you what it meant for somebody to just sit there and listen and not judge. And I think about how we sit and we listen to birds and we're with the birds.
00:35:48
Speaker
I felt like he treated me like that. that he just listened to me and he was trying to learn where my pain was coming from. and he started guiding me in a way where you talked about how you give birds names and you can call them what you want to call
Birds as Navigators of Grief and Awe
00:36:01
Speaker
them. In his book, he has ah he has a chapter where he talks about how he had named an eagle after his mother.
00:36:07
Speaker
And then one day his son calls him saying that there's a bald eagle stuck in a fence and it happened to be the bird he named after his mother and his mother had just passed.
00:36:18
Speaker
So in my mind, like when I read these words and I started thinking about Rodney and when he got there, he said that was just a message from my mom. That was Dippy telling me she's OK because he freed the bird and it flied away and it started doing this real eagle call.
00:36:32
Speaker
Right. Not the red tail hawk that we heard in the movies all the time. Yeah, so I just start thinking about grief and awe and how birds have helped me get through some of the lowest points in my life. You know, some of the lowest points in my life. And and when I'm out there, i feel a little better.
00:36:49
Speaker
I get a little more hope. I just, you know, talk talk to us, talk to the people about... I'm choking up a little bit. Talk to us about how you, you know, how birds have, you know, helped you navigate both grief and wild awe. Well, you know, Dexter... It is so much of life is navigating the valleys and and sometimes being in the muck and mire.
00:37:14
Speaker
And so to begin to understand, you know, the importance of those moments, not just of escape necessarily, but how do you cope? and And sometimes you need to lighten the load, especially when you're you know you're in those low places. And how do you lighten that load? Well, for me, it's been bird song. It's been hearing a wood thrush. it's it's It's hearing a bird that I haven't heard in months because it's it's migrated away. But then that bird somehow appears
00:37:50
Speaker
And it's almost the same or maybe the same day from last year and the same tree and the bird is singing. And you're like, wait a minute. Is is that you? You're back? Man, you're back from you're back from the Amazon, Scarlet Tanager. How are you?
00:38:07
Speaker
how did you How did you escape forest falcons? How did you make it across the Gulf of Mexico? How did you get back here to this spot? And in that moment of recognizing that miracle of evolution, that that one being that made it through the worst and the best that nature has to offer, and there it is, gracing you with his presence.
00:38:36
Speaker
That's the hope. That's the hope. And in that moment, right, you're like, because you think about all the things, all the things that an individual bird has to go through to return.
00:38:47
Speaker
to us. And I say that not selfishly as if we own it, to return to us in a way that gives us joy and allows us to look and say, you know, I know you.
00:39:00
Speaker
No, no, not by field guide, but by feel guide. I know you. and And that's hopeful to me. So that's helped me deal with a lot of of of things, let's just say.
00:39:15
Speaker
And I'm not afraid to say. I've struggled with depression and just anxiety. And then the times compound it, right? The times we're in compound it. And, you know, I want to be strong and do what I can to help us get through tough times, but I got to get me through tough times first. Amen. And so the way that I frequently do that is I got to be out there. I got to walk around, got to focus on someone else and that someone else might be a bird. And one day again,
00:39:49
Speaker
You know, it was the worm eating warbler. Another day it was and it was an Eastern Tohe, bird my grandmother used to call a Jory. not And you know how, how, how towhees usually want to be hidden, right? This bird just sat, it just sat. And I could see that red eye in the bird and it just sat there and he just preened and turned this way and that, and that was just peace for those moments. So, you know, whatever you're suffering through, you know, I think for me, you know, birds are meditate, birds are a meditation. They're a meditation. They're the embodiment of meditation, right?
00:40:26
Speaker
And no matter what they're doing, you know, those loons this morning, just watching them and and trying to understand, you know, how how you do what you do. I'm not thinking about anything else.
00:40:39
Speaker
And I'm in a different sort of place. And to be in a different sort of place allows me to cope and and to and to gain some strength. That then when I have to face this thing head on, I can face it head on. Love it. And so Rodney, man, he's a real one.
00:40:55
Speaker
I met him. I is, man. Like, I swear, I was like, I said, the universe makes no mistakes. Like, I was like, I am so lucky to have you in my life right now. He texts me and just like me and you, Jay. Like he just, check he texts me, he'll check on me. And like, I just, I just feel so lucky, you know, to have somebody like that and his wisdom and what he's gone through and who he is like, ah, like, and just hearing you speak those words you just spoke. Like you always say, joy is the justice we give ourselves. And those birds that we all love. Yeah. We're going to use that word today. Yeah.
00:41:30
Speaker
That is our joy. That's our justice during in these times, these unjust times that I think all of our people are living through. They're attacking everything about us. They're attacking our words. They're attacking our our institutions and and like everything. like are just They don't want us to be happy. They don't want us to have joy. And I think in these moments now, more than ever, we just got to keep keep on keep on keep like chasing that. Keep on going to get it because we deserve it. We deserve it.
00:42:01
Speaker
We have as, you know, I don't feel like anybody has to earn joy, but if anybody has earned joy, it's us. So, you know, my grandmother used to say and sing and, singing you know, joy um The world didn't give it. The world didn't take it away. And now what is new is that you're going to have to face people who are people who know that and who lean on the ancestors.
00:42:32
Speaker
In a way to say, oh, okay, all right, this is this is what has to be done. And part of that is doing, taking by choice, sometimes by force, your joy. So if that joy is taking time to be outside, you take your time to be outside. If taking your joy is being what others tell you you can't be, you be the ornithologist.
Pursuing Joy and Authenticity
00:42:53
Speaker
You be the mammologist. You be the cosmetologist. You be who it is that you are and what drives your heart. And see, that's new for a lot of people, right, that see us from the outside and say, well, you know, they'll fold. Nope.
00:43:07
Speaker
Nope. It's not going to happen. I have birds in part to thank and I have kindred spirits to thank for that, who will will help to lift me up just like thermals help to lift the red tail hawk up. And you'll watch that hawk and like, how does that bird hang up there like this? And we know it's thermodynamics, solar convection, all that stuff, that lingo that we can throw. But ultimately, there's a mystery.
00:43:33
Speaker
There's a mystery to it. And I rebel in the mysterious because the mysterious is often the miraculous. And when I can experience that, then joy is not far behind.
00:43:45
Speaker
So birds, man, they give that and I love them for it. Has that been, um have you had an experience this spring so far that comes to mind that really like, okay, we finally made it through winter and it just filled up your, we always talk about filling up our cup here. And anytime I talk to Dexter, my cup is full, but like anything come to mind this spring so far this year? the Hearing the first Louisiana water thrush. And I usually hear those birds mid to late March here. And on the farm, everything, you know, is sort of new. The birds that are here and trying to understand who's here
00:44:19
Speaker
That was hearing that first bird, that first Louisiana water thrush of the spring, and then hearing three of them. And it sounds like they're setting up in sort of the same place, right? And so I'm like, oh, okay, y'all find my place, y'all find this place good enough to maybe settle in here, you know.
00:44:40
Speaker
do your Louisiana water thrush thing and hopefully make little thrushlets. um and And thinking about where those birds came from to find this place, you know, a little band of white crown sparrows that are hanging out up at the head of the road. You know, I would hear that song that,
00:45:01
Speaker
And to know those birds are there, but that those birds maybe are going to carry a message to other white crown sparrows, maybe, maybe as far north as treeline in the sub-arctic alpine tundra, right? I don't know where those birds are going, but they might be going there.
00:45:20
Speaker
And that blow, boom. blows your mind. Every time I'm like, no way, no way. Like, how is this possible? Right. And in my mind, I'm like, oh, okay. And I told him, I said, y'all tell your friends that it's good here, right? Tell the homies. right. I got some hedges for you. So you talk to the birds too. I love it. I love it. I just talk to them. I feel like they understand me. They feel me.
00:45:49
Speaker
you know i mean like I was just like, hey, that's the homies right here. you know a dexter They do. I get all excited. It's funny because always tell people you don't got to be quiet around birds. like You can get excited. There are times to be quiet, but you know what? There are times to celebrate them too.
00:46:05
Speaker
And I'm not shushing people. I'm not telling people to be quiet. And like, there are a lot of people out there like that. And I see more birds than them. So I would just say that the science don't back you up on me.
00:46:17
Speaker
You know, the science don't back you up because, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm sharing all this bird joy and these birds just be a flocking to a homie. You know, they just be like, what up, Dax?
00:46:27
Speaker
What up, Dax? You know? And that's how I can say, you ready? Let's go. Cause we, we got that kind of bond, you know? So that, but that kind of bond. Right. and, And again, there's that that whole deal of being in relationship with nature.
00:46:44
Speaker
Being in relationship with nature. And if we drop back and we listen, if we were to listen to... our ancestors before they were brought here. But then even as they were here, if we you know talk to folks um like our indigenous friends, then we begin to understand being in relationship with nature is is not some magical, mystical thing. It's understanding that respect it That respect begats respect and ultimately understanding that who you are and who some non-human being is, that there's this exchange. Even if it's you know the the trees that we're exchanging breath with or even even beings that we that may give themselves to us as food, that ultimately guess what we are going be? Huh. Food. We're going to be food. So I like thinking about things in in that cyclical way. You know, it's not from A to B. It's all around and it's in between. Birds, again, teach us those lessons. And so when...
00:47:50
Speaker
you know Those magical moments this spring, like yesterday, ah heard the first great crested flycatcher of the of the year. I'm like, what? Are you early, dude? What's going on? ah you know And then I heard another one. And it's they're not going full on, ve we weep we weep weep weep weep, weep, weep, weep yet, but it's just a little weep. You know, like I'm here.
00:48:12
Speaker
I'm here. i'm not I'm not fully in yet, but you know, be looking for some snake shit soon to put in a nest and hanging out this box so you can know that I'm here. And um and that that is joy to me.
00:48:24
Speaker
Those moments of return and reunion with these migratory birds that say, you know what? To hell with your borders. I'm coming. And I'm going to make a home here. Love me. And I'm like, okay, I will. Yeah.
00:48:39
Speaker
Bet. Right. Like, I love that. It's like the flycatcher showing up and he's like, hey, I'm here. Or if you're in Philly, it's Europe. Yeah. um You know, I've always wondered this too, because we've we've kind of leaned, you know, we've we talked about the things that science can and and can't do, and we're all in STEM, we're all STEM professionals here. and And you've said that saving wildlife takes more than data, right? It takes poets and prophets. and so How have you found a way to blend that science and storytelling that that that sparks change? And I always wondered this too, if I was a student in one of your courses, would I find that connection as well? And are you able to weave that in for folks to give them more than just the statistics and the data? And how how have you found that to be effective when it comes to teaching either students or non-students? You know, Jason, it is, i started, i really began to push the poetry when i sort of stepped outside of myself in a lecture.
00:49:36
Speaker
And this was back with the announcement of the rediscovery of the ivory bill. And i got all emotional before class and I went into class and because all that I was talking about in this conservation biology class was was extinction and how bad things were, but here was hope. and um And so I got emotional in that moment and it really was a sea change for me because you know here I was showing slide after slide after slide of statistics on just the world going to hell in a handbasket.
00:50:10
Speaker
And um you could look at people and they were listening, but I think yeah I was also driving some of them to despair. Mm-hmm. Not that we don't need to understand the science or understand what climate change is doing or fragmentation is doing or that the extension extinction vortices are spinning ever faster. But why i do this if all is lost?
00:50:33
Speaker
And so like Emily Dickinson, hope being the thing with feathers that perches in the soul, I wanted to not just give the the medicine, but people also understand that in order to take the medicine and us get better, you know, you got to have a little treat every now and again. You got to have a little sweet with that. So, you know, that's part of it. Also, just what will people consume? Mm-hmm.
00:50:58
Speaker
right What will people consume? And you know i used to tell my students, look, you can publish in some fancy journal that is essential. That is what we have to do as scientists. It's what we need to keep doing as scientists. But I also encourage them to publish in glossy and lay publications with pretty photos or whatever, or art, or to write poetry. Because if I put that journal in a dentist's office and on a table beside the glossy a hundred people come in that dentist's office how many people are going to pick up the journal two not lot i mean me because i'm a nerd but what you know well yeah you everybody else though the three of us might say oh maybe researchers and scientists let me read this abstract yeah right yeah but but it's it's it's all about ultimately you know i
00:51:50
Speaker
One of my mantras is that every policy begins with a single person. Every policy. I tell them whether it's saving birds or dropping bombs, somebody somewhere is making a decision whether something goes forward or not.
00:52:04
Speaker
Whether the bomb bay doors are opened, whether the missile is launched, whether the habitat is created or whether the water is made clean. Somebody is making ah that decision. So why not let that person be you? And the thing that creative writing and that poetry does is there's a freedom of expression there that um that can't come through in the scientific writing because, you know, we're being objective and and we're being reviewed by peers in a different way.
00:52:34
Speaker
You know, I feel like With the attention span that people have these days, it's about, I think, the average traffic light, probably less than three minutes, depending on where you are.
00:52:46
Speaker
But how do I get to you in three minutes? How do I get to you in three minutes? How do I become the earworm in in your head, you know that song that you have with you forever?
00:52:58
Speaker
How does that happen? And you've got to feel it. You've got to feel it. It's just like the music that we might listen to that we feel right? And that there are rhythms to it. I think that for us to do what needs to be done from a conservation perspective, we need to feel
Impact of Declining Bird Populations
00:53:15
Speaker
it. And again, that's why you hear me talk about, you know, this idea I have of a feel guide. So all the science that tells us that 3 billion birds at least have disappeared in the last 50 years, we have data that helps us understand that. But what does it feel like? You know what it feels like? It feels like not seeing birds that were once complex. It it it feels like feels like an absence. it's almost it's it's It's almost like having something taken away and you're like, wait a minute, something's missing. And then you're like, oh.
00:53:45
Speaker
It's heartbreaking. Like the quail you all were talking about. and Right, Dexter. It's less and less and less and less common. And it is heartbreaking. And Drew, as I was preparing for this interview, I listened to your Bird Note episode where you read Fort Lindsay. And shout out to our Milwaukee club leader, Rita Flores Wyskowski. She sent it to me and she told me she ugly cried after she heard And as usual, Jason, Rita was right. I'm called like a freaking baby after listening to that. And in that episode, you talked about how words have meaning and how you find inspiration in the things that are being said around us. I'd love to know what words have been inspiring you lately.
00:54:26
Speaker
Are there any new poems you're working on that reflect what you're hearing in the world right now? Wow. You know, the words that I hear are the the words of strength and and power.
00:54:38
Speaker
Mm-hmm. You know, when and and for people not to to cast their eyes down because of fear, but to look forward in a way that says, oh, I'm coming. I'm still a look. but I'm here.
00:54:54
Speaker
and and And so in in that way, you know, I've been spending a lot of time. You know, I can look right up here to my ah right and I can look at Brother James Baldwin.
00:55:04
Speaker
And I think about so many of his words and and how what um how geniusly he created in the midst of some of the worst of times.
00:55:16
Speaker
But ultimately, you know, what Baldwin said it is, he said, it all comes down to love. that was That was the end message for James Baldwin. And so in listening to him, it's almost like hearing him for the first time, hearing his voice, not just reading him.
00:55:32
Speaker
But then hearing the voices of birds again, you know, the first red-eyed vireo the other day, and I'm like, oh, there you are. Hey, now. You know, before it gets lost in that that cacophony of all the other birds and the Vireo's singing all day, every day. And you're like, oh, but then what happens when that Vireo's not singing all day, every day? And you're like, something's missing and it's not, it's a Vireo. So those, the words of birds and those that have paved the way before, you know, have, have been inspiring me in some ways. There's, man, I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember the name of the brother
00:56:11
Speaker
who, um, who he's actually the minister at a church in Atlanta. And, this brother is, is I'm not churchy at all. Y'all he's talking about liberation theology, right. And sort of who it is that we are strength wise and being unapologetic for being black and powerful.
00:56:35
Speaker
And I know it's scaring people. And I look at the courage with which he speaks. Anyone who speaks their mind in these times, you know, you put in, you kind of paint a target. Sure. um But think. Would it be Jamal Bryant? Yes.
00:56:51
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. He's been. Yeah, he is. Yeah. not fire yeah he His words are powerful. They move me. They really do. they're moving millions of people right now. Yeah. And that.
00:57:05
Speaker
Yes, that is what, you know, you you're up and you're like, oh, okay. Even hearing that, I think, puts us in a different space maybe than we would have been in And people have said, well, where's the leadership? Where's the leadership? wheret Well, um I think it comes in these little, what I call, nano-rebellions from lots of different people. But what empowers me is to be me.
00:57:31
Speaker
trump be That's the first rebellion. Be you. And and and if if you can do that, if you can be you, then I think the rest the rest comes in in this genuine fashion that allows us to go forward more powerfully. Mm-hmm. Keep sharing your words, people.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah. That's what Drew's saying. Don't stop what you're doing right now. It may feel hopeless. It may feel that we're in these crazy times, like we're in the twilight zone, but what they want us to do is fold. Yes. Right. Like that's the goal. They want us to feel so overwhelmed that, that this is just not worth doing anymore, that we just shut down shop, you know, and we stop, we stop riding in on the wings of joy. Like you said earlier, they don't want us to do this.
00:58:14
Speaker
They don't want us talking right now. They don't want us smiling. They don't want us out talking to the birds. They don't want us doing any of that. They want us to fold and we will not do that. We will not do that. What are we, Jason? No, no. And I, you know, it's funny, you kind of answered the next question I was going to ask. And I, you know, it was really around what the importance of passing something on, right?
00:58:34
Speaker
You've written about that. And looking at where we are now. And we talked about how far we've come with Black Birders Week and everything that kicked off with Black AF
Advice for Young Birders and Nature Lovers
00:58:43
Speaker
and STEM. um And so what advice, you know, in addition to continuing to put our words and joy out there, what advice would you give to young black and brown birders, scientists, nature lovers, you know, that you feel would be most important for them to carry on their journey and and maintain some hope about their space in this world? Jason, I think for me, again, first be you, love you, but then to dream bigger than you can imagine, to see beyond yourself, to see beyond the goals and aspirations that you may have, to know that there's more out there for you. That that that passion leads the way to that. Mm-hmm.
00:59:21
Speaker
Honestly, bro, like, Drew, I could probably talk to you for two, three hours, but honestly. going to have to send us a bill if we keep him here. I respect your time so much, and and I just, I can't think of a better way to end with what you just said. I just I feel like that is the perfect way to kind of wrap this up. But I just want to say thank you. Honestly, from the bottom of my heart, thank you for joining us today, for sharing your stories, your wisdom, your joy, your love for birds. That word is important.
00:59:54
Speaker
I just want to say thank you. I'm fired up right now. I'm fired up right now. um I can't. I can't. I'm so happy, Jay. We're back doing season three. When I think about it, bro, we're a year in. A year ago in April, we kicked off season one and then we did season two. And here we are a year later kicking off a third season of the Bird Joy podcast.
01:00:17
Speaker
I love you, man. I'm so excited. I can't believe that like this is happening. It happened. I'm going have so much fun editing this episode. all the bird songs and stuff oh man like is this is gonna be fantastic it's gonna be a work of art well so thank you thank you dexter thank you jason for for having me in and and more importantly again beyond me thank you for what you're doing for us thank you for what for what you're doing for the birds they speak for themselves but i'm gonna go ahead and say on behalf of every bird wild bird there is thank you
01:00:50
Speaker
because this advocacy goes beyond us and and what you are doing is um is is giving strength to that power of of advocacy of love for one another and for birds so thank you thank you you're gonna make me cry um or blush at least but i just really quickly um you know is there anywhere folks can find some of your latest work or poetry or is there anything they should be looking forward to with upcoming appearances Yeah, you know, um wow. We, um you know, I've got this thing going on, this Writing the Wildies online, sort of a writing workshop, but really we call it Soul School. My partner, Chrissy Kloot and I, and Dexter and Jason, we will be in Baraboo in June.
01:01:35
Speaker
Oh, I will be there then. You let me know when in June. Are you going to International Crane Foundation? I will be at the Leopold Foundation. I'll be giving a talk there. So right around the corner.
01:01:47
Speaker
Well, I will be there. Okay. And so, so we'll be, I'll be there writing the while we'll be there. Got some essays coming up in, um, emergence magazine about black beaches and, um,
01:02:00
Speaker
and And some of those things, and of course, integrating the love for birds into that, but just working on a number of things. So staying busy as I can stay, but, you know, looking forward to that first pickie tickie tuck of the first summer tanager so I can welcome, welcome them back.
01:02:19
Speaker
To their summer home and um and just looking forward to being able to hopefully get out with you guys face to face. I don't know, you know, not too far, not too far from the Leopold Center.
01:02:31
Speaker
There's this little prairie and this little remnant and it's Henslow sparrows in there. Oh, yeah. We get the Henslows. Yeah. I love me some little brown birds.
01:02:42
Speaker
Right. Yes. the Little brown birds. I love that. That's the the theme this this year for Black Birders Week is the sparrow because everybody just calls sparrows little brown birds. And. Black and brown birders, we definitely can relate to that. We can just love brown birds. You just a little brown bird. I'm Drew. you know there There go Dexter up there and you know Jason over there. is It's just crazy. So shout out again to Black AF and Stim and Black Bird this week. I'm super fired up about that.
01:03:10
Speaker
Thank you. yeah Yeah, I'm super excited. We will definitely be sharing all these resources. I'll make sure I share it with with our club members as well and um the under Underground Hiking Collective that we started. We've been starting to lead BIPOC-only walks for our members, and and it has been beautiful.
01:03:30
Speaker
It really has just kind of, we don't even publish these events publicly or anything is we have a private chat and and and we had 40 black and brown folks in out last time we did it and it was just beautiful. So we're gonna continue to build on that and continue to create these spaces.
01:03:47
Speaker
um Shout out to Jasmine Banks, shout out to Christopher Kilgore, Color in the Outdoors. Those are those are the partners for that that initiative and it has been beautiful. It really has. So we will not stop. We will continue to continue to ride this wave on the wings of joy. Well, let let me know how I can help, please. I will. I will.
01:04:07
Speaker
Well, I want to thank everybody for joining us today on the Bird Joy podcast. We hope you enjoyed exploring the world of birding with us and Dr. J. Drew Lanham. Shout out to the BIPOC flock. We have a ton going on as usual. So go to the website, bipocbirdingclub.org. Yes, yes. Until next time, homie, shout out to the In Color Birding Club folks here in Philly. Go check out our new website. It is very, very colorful.
01:04:36
Speaker
It's beautiful. Incolorbirding.org. And yeah, we'll talk next time, man. Yeah, please share, subscribe, shout out this podcast to all your fellow bird nerds and help us spread a little bird joy.
01:04:47
Speaker
Peace, y'all. don't know what I'm going to do now. Peace. Peace. The rest of the day is just going be... I gotta go hang out with some birds, bro.
01:05:00
Speaker
Let me go see if my eyes spray is on a lake. i See, it's supposed to rain tonight. So tomorrow morning, you know, I think tomorrow morning might be special. So I'm looking forward to that. I'm looking forward to that.