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Finding Healing Through Birding with Tammah Watts
625 Plays21 days ago
Get comfortable. Take a seat. Gather around friends for a warm and meaningful conversation with the famed author, mindful birder, licensed marriage and family therapist, California Audubon board member, and accessible birding advocate Tammah Watts! In this episode we discuss her approaches to birding as it pertains to her own healing and connection with our community, including incredible encounters with Red-shouldered Hawks and Mourning Doves to aid in the healing. We cover some experiences we’ve all had in nature, some with each other. We look into her book, “Keep Looking Up: Your Guide to the Powerful Healing of Birdwatching,” and even explore some pages together. You will be delighted to participate in a prompt read live by Tammah, where we embody a crane looking at still water for some self-reflection. We also talk about some birding adventures with the SoCal Bird Nerd crew (of which Jason is an honorary member), where they look for Cactus Wrens and Say’s Phoebe. We also get some great advice from Tammah on how to approach our birding in ways that help us cope with life in a sometimes very challenging world.
This is a space we gather to fill up each other’s cups with that everlasting Bird Joy! Join us!
Be sure to follow our podcast on Instagram at @thebirdjoypod and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Bird Joy Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome to the bird joy podcast. I'm Dexter Patterson. And I'm Jason Hall. This is the podcast for all the bird nerds and homies out there. They want to find a little bird joy. A little bird joy. Yes. How about a lot of bird joy? Are you ready for it? Let's go. Let's go.
Guest Introduction: Tama, the Birding Therapist
00:00:16
Speaker
So we are. Yeah, we are. I don't know if you can hear, but we are with one of my favorite people today.
00:00:22
Speaker
absolute favorite people, Tamawat, welcome, how are you? Hi, I swear, I can't even help it, I'm already laughing, I'm like tearing up, you know, I have to be careful how I smile and show directions and that ring close on the corner of the eyes, that's important, but nonetheless. No, you stop it, you stop it.
00:00:41
Speaker
I am excited to be here. You just do not know hello. Well, I already have the joy. Just be with you too. People keep making us blush, Jay. I don't know how to handle this, you know? I don't know how to handle this. We bring people on to make them blush, and then then they and then they flip it on us immediately, and I don't know what to do with myself. Okay. okay so yeah Just to introduce you a little bit to the folks, if you don't mind, give me a moment. So Tama is the bestselling author of Keep Looking Up Your Guide to the Powerful Healing of Birdwatching, published through Hay House. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist. She is a certified Kripalu Mindful Outdoor Guide, a birder and advocate for equitable accessibility of nature, health and mental health for all. She serves on a number of boards, including the Audubon California Advisory Board of Directors as Southern California Audubon Chapter Council Representative. ah She serves on the Project Feeder Watch DISES Product Advisory Board through the Cornell Lab of Ornithology, as well as her local San Diego Bird Alliance Board. She has been featured in the book
00:01:46
Speaker
and multiple outlets, including the New York Times, Psychology Today, Therapy for Black Girls, Metro UK, The Authors Guild, Ray Brown's Talking Birds, and these eight houses you can heal your life podcasts and empower you at. Man, that is an impressive, and impressive array of points of creating community and joy through birding and good
Tama's Journey: Healing Through Birding
00:02:09
Speaker
mental health. We are so excited to have you here today. How are you doing? How are you feeling today? I feel like if I ask anybody that I have to ask I have been looking forward to this, you know, I kept bugging you all because it's like, I love you both. And so for me, as we speak right here, right now, I am overjoyed, was speechless.
00:02:33
Speaker
because it's hard to put sometimes in words for me to put into words how I feel about things as interesting as that is as a therapist when I ask folks and imp prompt that, right? Like, how are you feeling? So I really feel like this warmth of my heart and just I'm doing, I'm doing great. I'm doing great. I'm hydrated. I have my coffee, which is essential as are the birds.
00:02:56
Speaker
I don't know how you're saying it. And actually, a student did this to me, and it's just so it has a lot of meaning in that way, too. Awesome. And just being with you, too. I feel good. Love it. Your book is really unique in birding, as it it's this consistent opportunity for the reader to both learn about not only you as an opportunity to relate in some way and see themselves in your experiences somewhere. Could you tell us a little bit about your recent experiences with birding and how has it maybe helped you be How has it helped you more specifically these last few weeks or months? Oh. How has burning saved Tama over the last few months? Yes. Wow. You know, if I start crying this early on and in the show, I swear to you.
00:03:44
Speaker
i'm sorry I have to be honest in my heart as I just, I mean, it is true. So wow, that question, I was, it has helped me in a number of ways over the summer. If we're, we're talking the last few months, right? So over the summer, some may know, some may not. I got really, really ill and really ill, like back to back pneumonias.
00:04:06
Speaker
COVID, I mean, it took me out and it really brought me back to the essence of why I wrote this book, which is when you feel you're at your lowest and you really cannot fill in the blank, cannot go anywhere, cannot think, cannot connect with others, you know, all the things, cannot work, cannot study, cannot feel.
00:04:27
Speaker
I felt like I had hit another period in my life where it was reminding me in a very deep, meaningful way to pay attention to the essence of connecting being in nature and especially with the birds, as s has always been the case. But it kind of it helped me think about it again because almost feeling like I take it for granted that I'm enjoying the birds. And there's never a day that I don't express. I wake up and express gratitude. That's just part of my my practices of being mindful of meditating and and acknowledging gratitude and as opposed to bed. And in this process of being so ill though, it allowed me to
00:05:09
Speaker
really sink back into just allowing what is possible. That meant I wasn't going out on bird outings and I was told by doctors to stay out of crowds, don't fly, don't travel. You can't, all these things I couldn't do.
00:05:24
Speaker
The essence of the backyard again, which is how the book opens is about me finding the connection in the backyard. It again came alive. Like we're always here and I always start each day in the backyard. So it's not like I didn't, I don't notice it. And it's not like I, that I do take the birds for granted, but it just was another level of appreciation of connecting and knowing that through this daily process of connecting with the birds, those two shall pass.
Symbolism and Resilience in Bird Encounters
00:05:50
Speaker
Do you know what I'm saying? And without feeling like doomsday, but when you're so very ill or having mental health, it can feel like today may be like the worst day ever. And so the birds remind us that this too shall pass um for folks that can reflect on that from ah from a generational and almost way of being told that through from our ancestors and our elders, right? To remember that. And so that's, to answer you in a long way, I have i always answered a long roundabout ways. That's what that's what it was. So that helped me. And at the same time, without going into so much about it, per se, my mother was in the process of transitioning. And I actually in May was at biggest week in American birding and got calls and left early because she began that process. and and And those who may or may not know that process has its ups and downs. They start to dip and then they seem better. And so I was going through that as well. And then my mom did pass. And so the birds, again, were present. They were present at her memorial, a hawk up in a tree that uncharacteristically remained during us talking about her at an outdoor garden setting, because she loved nature and trees. so We really wanted to make sure that when we gathered, it was in in her spirit, in a space like that, that had roses and beautiful old trees. And so up in this branch sat this hot, this red-shouldered hot that had just perched, looking down at us.
00:07:15
Speaker
And others noticed that, quote, aren't birders because it was so unusual. Wow. Of course, I pointed it out. And then more recently, there was and I've been carrying this about my mother. I have it publicly. Like I've shared with some, but not everyone yet, because I needed to be in this place and space to continue to receive. And there's a part of me that's just carrying her and carrying all that that means with my mother. And then a dove came into the house about a month after she passed. And so my mother believed in the morning dove was a sign of peace and love. From when I was very little, we'd be driving around in a Volkswagen Beetle back in the days. We're talking, you know, back in the days, a little beetle. And she'd point out the doves up on the wire and say, there's peace, there's love. And so I learned then that connection And so for those that may or may know this, I just feel like my mother, because I never, we never had a dove come in our house. And it came in through the back door, into the kitchen area. My husband came and got me. He goes, there's a pigeon in our kitchen. And I'm like, a pigeon? Okay. We live in suburban. It's like, I've never seen a pigeon. No judgment. Right. Must be a dove. And so sure enough, it was hiding under a little area. So we took some time with it and eventually it left. I have video of it and it just,
00:08:32
Speaker
I don't know, it just, that's for me. So those are
Birding as Emotional and Political Solace
00:08:35
Speaker
some examples. And more recently, even more, I mean, I have to be honest, as we know that the election was a major, major hit and setback emotionally, psychologically, for me, ethically, culturally, it brought into question a lot of things ah in terms of relationships, my purpose,
00:08:55
Speaker
what I am and am I not doing. It reinforced and re-emphasized values and what I hold dear and what I uphold and what I will or will not do. And just all of it, you know, tangled tangle, tangle, just a lot of it. it's Yes, it's complex and yet it feels so simple too. And again, I intentionally said I need to for a while cut off because I'm a noose junkie. I have to, I had to cut off the noose. And again, it's like go out, be with the birds. Share within your sorrows and your grief. And I did some mindful meditation and meditations where I offer my grief on the wing of the bird to take that and lift that off my heart. And so I did some of that practice with myself and spending time at work. I do a couple of days a week. I spend long hours twice a week doing psychotherapy for college students. I love it. It's very, I mean, it's a gift. I feel benefit as a gift, but it's something that I just love to do. And so I'll take time to bird in between breaks. I found a new patch because our building moved. And so that's been a journey to find other spaces and and just connecting with the birds and their present. And so that has made this process of adjusting to the uncertainty of life in these ways, you know, possible. So that's what I've been dreaming. And like a couple of days ago, I went to a local little park, took the dog in the beautiful orange sunset came through. And that was enjoyable. Thank you. for so mo no great Honestly, I think, I think sometimes, sometimes we just got to listen to learn. And that's kind of what I was doing in that moment, because as you were speaking, as you were. working through your emotions. I was working through so many of my own as I was listening to you and thinking about some of the trials and tribulations, you know, over the last few years of myself and, you know, and finding that peace in some of those hard moments. I often find it's burning and it's when I feel I feel broken up. Like I'm an emotional wreck, but I'm still out burning, you know, and I like I feel like if I didn't have birds, maybe I wouldn't be outside. Maybe I'd still be in the bed. because life is is is beating me up at that time and excuse me. So I was listening to you and it was just like there are so many people out there, Tamara, that could not do what you just did right now. That could just tell people how how you felt and and what you've been going through and that That takes a lot of courage. When I started to become more vulnerable, I started to realize that vulnerability as a man, as a person in general, it felt like more of a superpower than it did like a weakness. and And for a long time, I was raised as a little boy. Boys don't cry. Boys don't show emotion. Boys are strong. Boys do this. Boys do that. And then inside I'm like, well, I don't feel like that.
00:11:38
Speaker
You know, and and for many years I fought against that. And I feel like as a grown man, I'm still fighting through a lot of those problems. So I appreciate that you took your time to to express yourself there because for me as a human being, I appreciated it because I felt like that more times than not. And I feel like our listeners probably do too. So thank you.
00:11:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah,
Birding Practices for Mental Health
00:11:58
Speaker
absolutely. And the reason why that question was asked is because in your book, every chapter starts with stories from you, this kind of connection and people can find their interpretation of themselves in many ways through some of your stories, right? And the stories are relatable to what the subject of the chapter is, right? Whether it's physical health, mental health, birding with others, right? There's all these different things. And one of the one of the things that I found great about the book, and i and i don't I don't know what your house looks like, right? But I have drawn a picture in my head of what your kitchen sink and your window looks like.
00:12:32
Speaker
Right? Because every time you come back to it and you and you mentioned it, looking out into your backyard. And I think one of the sections I like the most is when you talk about your your practice of spraying a little Windex on the window to wipe off the the water droplets from the day before from your sink. Oh, wow. yeah You really read. You really read. yeah yeah it's it's i Yeah. And I actually read it when it came out and I had to go back through it and like reengage myself with it before we talked, because I remember it gave me some things in 2023 that I that I needed. And.
00:13:06
Speaker
I'm wondering about that window because to me it's such a, it's an anchor, Riley. So that's the way I look at it. And I'm wondering, for me, I have some anxiety and attention issues that I struggle with from time to time. And so the the consistency of the practice was really interesting to me and like, How would you, not everybody's gonna have the kitchen window specifically, but they may have other things. Like how would you suggest folks start to explore where or how they could even ground themselves in a in a practice around birding?
00:13:40
Speaker
that helps them have that place to come back to every day, right? That kind of consistency or anchor of like, this is the place where I think, this is the place where I cry, this is the place where I observe, like, how would you, and and as crazy as the world is today, how would you suggest someone kind of looks around and starts to build that for themselves?
00:13:55
Speaker
Thank you for both of you sharing about what year you've gone through and identifying and in affirming what I shared too, because that really does help. And you mentioned about Dexter, you mentioned about vulnerability. And so to answer this question, I think that allowing ourselves to allowing you to tap into your vulnerability, what is it you're feeling? Is it sorrow? Is it Joy, because sometimes, believe it or not, when we feel happy and joyful, that can also be a sense of vulnerability, because depending on your life experiences and your current environment or circumstances, some people I'll say as kindly as I can. Some people are discomforted by our joy. Some people become what feels to us as angry, jealous, and will counter your joy with such negativity and toxicity to dampen and tamp down that you might learn to not allow yourself to be joyful, to find joy in little things, in even the birds, right? There could be shame attached to, well, I can't really show that I'm happy about the birds because I'm going to be thought of as crazy, or why am I wasting my time that way, or what are you talking about? so
00:15:04
Speaker
All that to say tapping into your your vulnerability about what it is that you're needing, feeling and needing. And the reason I say that is that can help guide you as to where you are kind of called to be. And so for some of us that might be, and I do encourage folks to think about where inside of where you live, can you feel a space usually find that we create a little nest.
00:15:29
Speaker
intentionally or unintentionally inside of where we live. So that's where I would invite you to to think of that as the spot. And then for some people, it's it takes time to then look out from inside out. That's why my chapters talk about from inside looking out. Because you can feel a little more comfort and safety in that. Just kind of look out and notice. It's like, is there a tree out there? Is there a shrub? Is there a part of your deck or patio or some spot? I mean, it could be a little weed that some people may not see as beautiful, but that weed on the corner of the sidewalk. Could you sit down by that? Could that be your spot? Because we all live in different places that have different, that look different and are different. And to be honest, I i got feedback from one person who said that they enjoyed reading my book, but they didn't feel like they could relate because they, amount because I lived in a suburban space and I described having a backyard. And that really, I felt saddened by that. And I felt like, okay, I thought my, I really want to make sure the message is that no matter where you live, no matter how we live, there is always the ability to create your spots, a space and a spot where you can can find comfort and then start connecting with the birds. Whether that that could be a nursing home, that could be a rehab facility and you're inside and you can never go out. Is there a doorway or or opening of a window that you'll notice? Because a bird will eventually come by.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so in that way, that's what I mean by the vulnerability. It's like, I'm sick, I'm happy, I'm nervous, I'm looking forward to something. All of those open our heart up. That's what vulnerability is about, opening up our heart. And so that's why I would say to to find that. And then when possible, create two or three spots. And honestly, those emotions that you you just named off, that's what makes us human folks. So if you're feeling something and you're feeling sad or you're feeling anxious, you're feeling all these different things, that's what just makes you a human being. And sometimes we just got to feel how we feel because that's that's what makes us human. Right. That's what makes us appreciate those good times more. And um even though we we may not feel good in that particular moment, all those storms got to pass eventually. But we still got to feel. I think a lot of people
00:17:43
Speaker
don't allow themselves to feel. And I think as a man, um as a person, that's when I started feeling the most as a birder, especially after pandemic, everybody, like I'm a people person, if you haven't been able to tell, you know, I love people and I love talking and like the interactions and i I was down.
Seasonal Reflections: Birding in Winter
00:18:02
Speaker
right and and when you talk about winter blues and like I miss people I miss my family I miss my friends I missed everything right I miss teaching I missed my students and like I just remember birds just giving me that brief respite nature as a whole like I tell people all the time burning isn't about the birds and there's so many different benefits for it and just getting back outside and moving my legs and looking up and being like oh I Crap, I did 8,000 steps. I didn't do any yesterday. And finding a little bit of joy just in that, like I got out of bed. you know like Jason said something, and I would love for him to talk about this a little bit, about where you encourage people to take like a kind of like a status check of how you feel before or walking after. And when Jason said that, I was like, oh my god, this is genius. Because every single time I go out, I come back home, I'm jacked.
00:18:55
Speaker
right like And it's like, I could left the house and I'm like mad and they' like sad. I come back home and like everybody's like, what happened? I'm like, birds happened. So ever since then, and I kid you not, I i asked my members, I was like, you know I want you to think about how you feel right now. And then I want you to think about how you feel when we get done. And I've had so many people come up to me and say, thank you. I feel so much better now. And in just these last few weeks, these last couple of events that we've had. so Jay, how did that moment for you as a birder, now that we have Tamah on the line, how did that change you, brother? Because when you explained that to me, it really it really caught my attention. Yeah, and I'm going to tell this story really quick, but I'm going to ask Tamah to read the reflection, if she can, at the end of the ah at the end of the Feathers chapter, the ah pond reflection.
00:19:42
Speaker
I went out to go visit my family out in Southern California, and I told some folks I was coming out, including Tama, and she put together this awesome kind of pop-up birding event. And here's what, maybe 10 people. But we had Dace got there. My sister was there ah with my niece, and it was their first time birding with people, homie. We had like two people.
00:20:05
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe there's more because I think I was I was a little overwhelmed for a minute because I was like, I don't know who any these people are. But we had Homie Julian, Ty Ariel. And these are all people I had met on Instagram. And so I was kind of a little geeking out just around community and like meeting people in person that I had seen on the community. And before we got started, Tama had us reflect on how we felt beforehand. And it wasn't until I got to that section of the book that I kind of realized where it came from. So instead of me trying to butcher it, can I ask you, Tamara, to read that reflection for us? And then Dexter and I can kind of talk about how we feel about that. That's OK. Yes, yes, yes. I have an extra backstory on your story about when you came out. But if in the essence of time down the road, I want to tell. Oh, we love the stories. We want all the stories. I'm a little nervous now.
00:20:59
Speaker
No, it's good. It's good. Okay. So, so, so for folks who don't know at the end of each chapter, I created what's called reflection ponds and there's a little prompt and leading up to, and I just want to backstory the, this particular but reflection pond with this chapter is called feathers. And so the exercise prompts like. Because of my background in mental health, i each chapter also has exercise prompts, which offer the opportunity to deepen your connection with that chapter's content, subject, as Jason and Dexter mentioned. And this one was about reflecting about your friends and your family and your relationships. And so at the conclusion of it is this reflection pond, which reads,
00:21:39
Speaker
We cannot see our reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see. That's a Taoist proverb. Answer the questions as though you were a crane standing at water's edge, gazing into a still pond at your own reflection. Invite your family member or friend to contemplate their own reflection pond. Before I went birdwatching today with and that's where you would fill in the one, the person or persons you were with. I was, and just allow yourself to to answer that with whatever comes up. While we were birdwatching together, I felt, and now
00:22:16
Speaker
I feel. Yeah. Right. and And thank you so much for that, Tamla, because i I when you first asked us when we were standing in that group introducing ourselves, right. I don't think it had the context of the of the Taoist proverb or even imagining myself as a as a crane, but it had the same effect. Right. Because no one had ever asked me that before I went birding, which I found.
00:22:39
Speaker
Asinine, to be honest, I was like, how like, you know, we don't we don't really take inventory of it. We do icebreakers. You know, what's your favorite bird? What do you want to see today? Where are you from? But never really. ah Really, how did you come to this space? Right. And I remember thinking about that question the entire time we were walking that hillside and looking for cactus rins and oh all kinds of other fun flycatchers and stuff. And I just The birds were cool, but I really just I would take a moment every like probably five minutes and just look up and down that trail and just be like, man, these are like these are my people, you know, and I and it just every time I did it, it just filled up my cup a little bit more. And just like Dexter said, at the end of that, I was just so full. Right. Like, ah you know, because watching my sister and my niece see ah acorn woodpeckers, right. And some of the fun rins and say I think it was a Saze Phoebe, maybe. um
00:23:36
Speaker
It was just, it was just great, right? Like I, you can't, I don't know how to bottle that stuff. And so it like, if folks are listening, I encourage you to number one, definitely go get the book. Cause that is one of many amazing, amazing prompts um and reflections. And there's all, all this amazing stuff in there. Take that with you. You know, use it at your next bird outing, right? Even if you're not the birdwalk leader and you can't maybe run the show, do it yourself. Just step off to the side and do it yourself, whether you're with a group or by yourself. So thank you so much for reading that. I think folks really needed to hear that. And that is going to be something hopefully people can use as we go through these, these next few months here. seeing yourself in the pond and that reflection, you know, really kind of connecting. There's oftentimes with meditation. I love meditation because that's often what you do is you try to envision yourself in a certain place or you're going to get here. or You see yourself this way because like where our focus goes, our energy flows and like what we allow in our heads and like our thoughts are make up a lot of who we are as human beings and people just don't They don't take inventory of that all the time. And I think that's what Bernie has really helped me with, Tamara, is just kind of living in the moment, whether I'm happy, sad, in between, all that stuff. and But also telling myself, Dexter, that's OK. That's OK that you feel not OK today. It's OK that you're not OK. But you're still out here enjoying the birds. And that that that's where I started to see life change for me a little bit was that I can still function and do things even in those moments when I don't feel good. And I started to be frank, I started being like freaking proud of myself. You know, because like instead of like allowing the mental health, you know, and and mental health is something that I will, you know, I've always been willing to talk about over the last few years, I would say that. And burning has helped me a lot with that because those reflections. And that was what kind of sparked me. You know, I had been burning for years and not telling anybody, right? Like I've always loved birds, but I wouldn't tell anybody, you know, like growing up in a hood, like I'm like afraid people are going to make fun of me, you know, like like birds like black people don't like birds yes we do yes we do yes we do and it's so funny like all the homies from back in the day i used to worry about like with judge me and stuff they think it's cool right that's just being himself you know i mean like because like That's that's the one thing is like when you meet somebody that just don't care.
Inclusivity and Community in Birding
00:26:03
Speaker
They're just unequivocally them Yes, I'm goofy. I'm a bird nerd. I'm just gonna let people know it that felt good But it's that authenticity that draws people in you know that like that's why people like the whisko birders cuz I'm willing to just be the goofy guy That's out in the woods not telling people to be quiet and like let's have some fun. Yeah Folks to come along with you Yes, like oh you know we had that conversation with Jordan who was on our podcast where it's just like we create this content. We want people to come with us. We want to take people on these journeys with us. We want people to understand that you are not alone, that you are amongst a community of people all over. right Like, it's just amazing. Like, you, Jason, everybody I've talked to on this podcast, I've met online at some point, right? And I've been lucky to meet some of you folks in the real world or out in the wild, as I say. And those moments all are the best.
00:26:55
Speaker
Like those are the best moments because you realize, yeah, this is, those are my people, Jason. Like you just said, like when you're on that walk with Tamara, those are your people and we are out here together. We have a community and thank you for reminding our listeners about that today because that's what we are about on the bird joy podcast. Thank you. And that, you know,
00:27:15
Speaker
That outing day, I am so grateful to Jason for even reaching out to me. Like, oh, she's in the, it's SoCal. And that, I was just like, oh, how wonderful. And I don't think that I would have gathered us had it not been for I mean, yes, I would have said, the little let's get together, but not in the way that my mind was because it felt like possible. And I had gone, I think it was two weeks before something. It was, um, to world beat center with this Makeda dread sheet. Um, if you don't know, you gotta know, please Google her, look her up. She is an elder. She is 84 going on.
00:27:57
Speaker
45 in terms of energy, passion, love of birds, does a lot with um urban birding with Cornell Lab, has created a community space in downtown, in the downtown area of San Diego County near the Balboa Park, the zoo, if you know where that is, that has been a hub for 30 years, vegan, powerful, a connector, a person that is almost otherworldly. And I had attended a Juneteenth gathering and it was the first time and it was their first um Harriet Tubman freedom birding walk on and it was the first time I had been in a ethnically, culturally identity diverse bird outing. First time in many years of birding and it just the the sense of connection and empowerment and love and journey from that experience. I said this is possible. So then when you reached out, that was still so salient in my mind and in my heart. And that's why I was really being intentional about opening this to be diverse and and being intentional about stating that. and then And then as we gathered, I mean, yeah i mean you're a superstar coming to SoCal, right? so god itself is like the that the the celebration no i was It was beautiful. And by then we had, that is what started the SoCal Bird Nerds because the connection that day, like you said, it defies words because it felt, all of us felt this Here we are. This is the joy. There was joy. There was love. There was snacks. There was food. There was an unstated understanding of even why we were here. All the reasons are said and understood and not the allowance to show up. Knowing birds are not knowing birds of needing to go slow or needing to go far ahead. It didn't matter. It was like you can show up and be here how you are. And there is acceptance for that. And it just represented everything that you want and out of. And the two of you are exemplars of creating and and and stewarding diverse bird outings in communities of all kinds of communities. You are. You truly are. Thank you. And insane and and it' so that yeah it's very inspiring. Over in SoCal, that hadn't been. And so it's like you brought that energy, that spirit, that possibility coupled with
00:30:15
Speaker
Ms. Makeda Dred, again, from what World Beat Center, what she did, it just made it like, no, this is possible here too. And so that's the backstory to that. And, you know, in the book I talk about, like those will sometimes I'll use like a little emoji of feathers, that relationships are like feathers. They're layered. We have relationships that are primary relationships, secondary relationships, and then tertiary relationships of feathers. that create a wing, right? And those, the wings is what helps for it to fly. And so understanding that and the connections that we have to our ancestors, to our elders living and not, as well as our present, as well as we're building a relationship for the future as well, right? So it's all interconnected. And so that's why I came up with that, of calling that chapter feathers and that prompt about how are you feeling in chapter one, I talked about how each one of us is feeling as us and ourselves. But what about when we're with others? How are you how were you feeling beforehand? Maybe you're, and you know, and it's like you talked about all the feelings. I can show up however I am and that is good enough and the birds accept us that way. So that's that part of self acceptance about how we feel allows us then to heal. because if i Because in reality, like you said, we feel all kinds of things. Like in one instance, you can feel happy and miserable at the same time. But in society, oftentimes, we've been told it's an either or. Either you're happy or you're sad. Either you're this or you're that. And it really defines us to think like, well, I'm not allowed to cry or I can't be unhappy or depressed.
00:31:48
Speaker
Because that means I can't do these other things. And when you begin to realize like, no, I am fully depressed and I'm going to find joy in this little bit over here and still be de depressed about all this other stuff. If we're not allowed to enjoy or accept the sad parts and the the parts that we don't feel make us feel so quote, good, then how are we only selectively allowed to enjoy happy parts when they all coexist?
00:32:11
Speaker
So you that we can't filter out one versus the other compartmentalizing, which is, again, you're often raised to do that. That's learned societal pressures almost to make you function no matter it's like, allow yourself to acknowledge all of it. And I'm wondering if that will allow each one of us to continue on in spite of, and then that's where the joy comes from, right? Like I can go birding and be miserable. i can't tell I can't tell you how many times I'm in my pajamas. like I can't get dressed before I go outside. like I have neighbors all around. They're probably seeing every pair of matching and unmatched pajamas I own and my socks. But I'm out there connecting with my birds, with the birds. So it's how we want to how we can show up. it and And I think that that gathering really was part of that. and I mean, it's been such a precious experience. yeah Thank you, Jason. Just showing up is what matters. you know Show up bird as you are is what I tell a lot of people. And that that means what you look like, your age, how you feeling, all of them. I want you all. You're all my people. I always tell people that, you know yes.
00:33:25
Speaker
and We created our club to get more people of color outside. But ultimately, I am never, ever, ever going to tell somebody they can't come birding with us if they support our mission and our values. And they want to see a more inclusive and equitable birding community in our state. Yes, you are welcome. You are welcome because I think we need more of that. We need more people together. And you mentioned how, like, you pair people up so they make deeper connections. And and Jason, you could probably noticed this too. I see that happen. in our burden events like literally every event where we kind of do these introductions and then like we kind of go along our way and after two hours or so you'll notice like a couple people are kind of flocking together here and a couple over here and over here and like yeah people are meeting new people and next thing you know these couple of people went out burning together and explored something together and that yeah is that's the stuff, right? Like that's the stuff because they showed up, like you got everybody to show up in SoCal and now they had so much fun in that moment that they decided that outside of the club, we're going to organize to go out together. We're going to go do this again because this was so much fun. We're going to go do this again outside of the club, right? Because we want more of that. That's the stuff.
00:34:39
Speaker
That's yeah. Yeah. And I tell you, I'm still on that chat for the San Diego burdeners and I get jealous every time you guys plan out. And I'm like, man, I don't I'm like looking at my checking account like, oh, can I get another plane to get free from a flyer miles? Because you and are an official SoCal bird. There's a rush out to. I am. Yeah. Pasadena. Let's go. But I, um i you know, i I found when I was initially reading the book, there was a couple of things that um I wasn't expecting. And in particular, one one thing I always think about is um your background as ah a licensed family and marriage
Writing and Reflection: Tama's Book Insights
00:35:16
Speaker
therapist, right? Like it really provides, I think, a good foundation to a lot of the things that you talk about. And I know there's, there's different ways to approach this kind of work with more traditional, call it Western medical teaching, right? There's more holistic teaching. There's other cultures and countries that have teachings around approaching relationships and mental health. But the thing that I, the thing that I thought about the most was, one, have you, or did you structure your chapters the way you structured them to walk the people from story, information,
00:35:48
Speaker
exercise like exercise in terms of an activity to do or a thing to think about, prompt reflection. Is that something you learned as ah as ah a licensed therapist? And then the second question is, has writing the book brought anything back to you as a licensed therapist? like Has it added this additional piece of birding, right, where now other people are being exposed to how you teach?
00:36:12
Speaker
As I brought other things back to your prac, I wonder, thank you for that question. So ah how the book is designed, I was informed in part by my background in mental health. And I felt really, it was really important to me to share at the beginning of each chapter opens with a personal story. And that was probably one of the more difficult things for me to write was that part of it was the personal stories. I'm at a point in life and have been from I'm just authentic about my stories. And I knew because of just many folks who have chronic illness that have had depression or go through it just different things that
00:36:48
Speaker
more than likely my story would have resonance and to give honoring to that for others that if I can share my story, would that then offer the opportunity like we talked about for the vulnerability for the acceptance of what is to come forward and that that is healing in itself that and we're all and it's okay. What we've lived through, what our lived experiences is who we are and it's all okay. Not that some of the experiences that we have haven't been harming, I'm not saying that, but we as a person, as individuals are okay. And then you could take that to the more collective sense too. So that said, I really emphasize with the publisher the need to have a full story for each chapter because this is really a self-help book. This is a different type of birding guide type book. I admit that it's it is different. That's where the story came from. And I wrote the stories because I wanted the reader to kind of just drop down into where I was coming from. So I told, I tell it in a very narrative, almost like you're reading a fiction story in a way. Like as I tell the story, like when I was growing up, I wanted you to see it through my seven year old eyes, that experience of when my mother's, you know, when it received the chickens and her going next door, because a seven year old mind and eyes experience is something very different than someone maybe who's 40. Do you know what I'm saying? So that's why some of the stories read the way they do. I really wanted you to feel infused in that, to see that and how that line connection through each chapter connects.
00:38:19
Speaker
And that we all encourage everyone to understand that your story is part of who you are and and is empowering and supportive of that. And then they expect then and going into the offering the guidance for folks who may be birding as this is their first time to see the connection between that story and but the topic of that particular chapter, how that connects. for them and then to move into the mental health piece, the the the psychological piece using my training. That was also a difficult aspect because I wanted to create questions and prompts that were very open-ended that allowed the freedom to answer in ways that would evoke connection but also not feel judged. I mean, I had to put a lot of thought into that aspect of it. so so' a lot I appreciate that. There was a lot of time in that section of the book. The book is not very long, but it took a lot of time to work through those. And then the reflection ponds in the same way. They may look like just one little sentence, but it took me a long time for each one to word it just right to help support folks. in
00:39:18
Speaker
their journey and to be able to return time and time again, because your answers may change over time. And that's what I wanted the book to be kind of a guide that they could come back to time and time again, over days, weeks, months and years, and it would be applicable. So that was all in my thoughts. thought process of this. And the way I wrote the book was the idea that came in when sitting really the ideas of the chapters, the publishers at Hay House is an author event they had in Houston, Texas. They had invited folks to come and I mean, it's a it's ah a conference on learning to write and I wanted to ah publish the process. I had never written a book before. I wanted to get Sound judgment on what's the best way to go and during the break I wrote out I was sitting by myself at lunch and the I've told the story many times but it's salient about this is that the CEO of Hay House had said as part of this conference like you should write what you're passionate about and I had gone there wanting to write about a children's book after having gone to Cuba with my husband and so I was curious about that and And so when I went to lunch, I'm sitting there and I'm like, this, I'm passionate about birds. So I didn't go there with birds in my mind. Cause it was one of those things like I'm the crazy bird lady. I'm the one that you know drives people, you know, nets telling them about birds all the time. Who's going to hear hear that? Like that didn't even enter my mind, but sitting there, it's like, that's what I'm passionate about. That's what's helped me. That's how I've healed. That's why I'm here. This is what I need to be doing. And so I just took out a little yellow pad and just started writing. Birdwatching at home, birdwatching in relationships, birdwatching in travel. I just, the topics and that became the chapters of the book. And I still was thinking like, yeah, but is this, am I sure? And I was staying with a friend that I've known since high school, very dear friend. And her home is very peaceful and tranquil. So it just created this sense of like thought process for me to just work it through. And the day that I was leaving to go to the airport, called the Uber, locking her door, she had gone to work. And I get in the car, and there's this music. I'm like, this sounds like Cuban music. And there was a Cuban flag hanging from the dash of the driver. And I said, are you from Cuba? And she's like, yes, there's many Cubans here. And I was like, OK.
00:41:33
Speaker
Okay. I see. I see. And then as we were driving on the freeway, heading to the Houston airport, there's huge American bald eagle was on this. What do you call the science? What do you call the, you know, the freeway signs, the billboards, billboards. Yes. As the curve by, like you couldn't miss it. And if you've read the book, if you know my dad's favorite bird was the bald eagle. And for me, I do look for signs. If you know, I do. I do see signs. I was raised by my mother to notice signs and see signs. For me, that was the confirmation and the affirmation, like you're on the right path. My dad was by then had, you know, this had passed and I just felt like those were like, what is the chance you're going to get into like a human? Yeah. You know what I mean? So for me, that felt like as I was leaving there, like this is what you need to be doing. Yeah. And so that's how the book came to be.
00:42:25
Speaker
Another long explanation, I know. but it's good It's good. It's good. Thank you. Thank you. I had one more question. I know we're almost at yeah we're almost at time, but um I wanted to do a little live exercise if we if we can.
Finding Joy in Winter Birding
00:42:40
Speaker
And it's really, this episode will come out in About mid December, I think, and your book has like we've talked about here like these prompts and these thoughts and one thing I hear from birders a lot in the winter is that they a lot of them struggle also with, you know, like seasonal depression and not as many birds and it's cold outside and it's
00:43:01
Speaker
not as much daylight. And I can't just look at everybody and be like, let's go look at goals, you know, because that's not going to get everybody up the same way it does for me. And I found myself thinking about it the last few days around how could we devise some thought and some prompt around finding connection with winter birds? with our own feelings during those months and how we can come back to a place where we can, we can refuel, replenish to keep going. Right. Cause we don't, it's hard for me to explain to people, like, you know, there's, there's brain chemistry, there's all kinds of things that are happening in our bodies. Right. And so like. There's a lot of science behind that, a lot of learning. And so I'm not trying to circumvent that. I'm just trying to say, are there any tools we can devise here today for people to maybe use to say, yeah, it's cold and there's not a lot of daylight, but try this or try that, or maybe think about this or that. And I was just wondering if you had any thoughts. I know San Diego doesn't deal with, uh, you know, what we got going on in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.
00:44:01
Speaker
imagine yourself like today I went to look for a snowy owl this morning in some fields and uh and when I walked out of house it was 19 degrees with like another four degree wind chill right so it was brisk that's not freezing from where I um that's freezing yeah yeah I mean you get freezing for you guys it's like 52 relax ah I was joking with my sister. It was like 50 degrees. She's like, Oh, I got to break out the hoodies. on the waterside Like, man, if you don't, like for those of us in these winter climates, right? You know, what would you say to someone if you were approaching them about how to find some, some resident, you know, and some connection with the birds during these months and even with themselves? Because what really comes to my mind is there's I'm wondering about, you know, we talked earlier about noticing from inside looking out. And so for some folks that they really may not feel like they can go out regardless of where where where they live, they could feel like this is weather that is not inviting. And we all know that winter is a time when
00:45:05
Speaker
If we're looking at nature, nature tells us that we go inward, that we are in a deep rest, i.e. the hibernation, the things are happening unseen under net ground. As intrapsychically, is that not true too? And this is where we're really invited to slow down a bit more, rest more, eat those warming foods,
00:45:25
Speaker
connect as you can but also taking some time for yourself. The difference between being alone and lonely and so really wanting to invite you to allow for some alone time so that you can begin to see what it is that you're needing and what aspects of your personhood do you nourish being alone because sometimes we can have so much we're doing doing doing for others and being connected to others that there's this sense of like I'm not fulfilling what I need and it's because we don't get the chance to stop and and not connect with others for a moment and just go inward for ourselves so that might mean take a little time it might be in a room it might be at the cafe you know that idea of sometimes you can feel
00:46:06
Speaker
alone or lonely in the midst of a lot of people. So if you're with intention saying, I need to spend some time with myself and go to a cafe or go have a meal or go to the park or sit in your car or so being in a space inside that you're looking out at that, I'm wondering if
Concluding Gratitude and Reflections
00:46:23
Speaker
that would help.
00:46:23
Speaker
And then allowing yourself to notice the birds, those that do show up. I know it can feel sparse at times. So it's also accepting that you may not see birds and that that's too, because what else are you seeing? Birds are like, they symbolize what else is present in our spaces that we share with them. And so I always like to remind folks that you might not see a bird, but you're noticing the tree. And so can you imagine sometimes what bird might light a light on that tree or on that snag or in that hillside or in that Valley that right now looks barren and you don't see anything or what might be burled underneath that you just don't see yet. What about noticing what is present? And then in the same sense as you're doing that, are you then acknowledging what's present in you? It's all connected. Man, it really is. It's all connected like Jason always is. I mean, we're all listening. Listen, what I'll do is I'll get Tama's medical billing information and we can all send her a check.
00:47:24
Speaker
Because I think we just got some for free some free here you're asking this very deep questions. I mean, really, we are yeah, we're talking about all the time. I feel like we're going to church today. We were there. Yeah. But it's it's it's. And it was so helpful. Yeah. It's so helpful, Tim. And I just, we, we, we asked these kinds of questions because we, you know, Dexter and I interact with a lot of different birders and I think we both, we all consume probably a lot of different call it bird related media. And sometimes you don't get those questions. Right. And so I, these are the kinds of questions I would ask you if you and I went to a nice cafe in San Diego one time to to sit down and chat, right. And I wanted people to hear it because it helps them also get context for the book and how it can be used, how they can think about themselves as birders, as enjoyers of nature, as humans, like Dexter mentioned earlier, right? And I'm so grateful for you, ah not only for the book that you've authored, but the person that you are and the way you approach community and and just taking the time to spend some time with us today because I do think people want to hear this and they want to find different ways to on-ramp to the enjoyment of nature and and they want to be cognizant of how that makes them better, how that enriches their life, how that helps them as a tool to navigate this weird, weird crazy planet sometimes. So thank you so much, Tim.
00:48:46
Speaker
And thank you everybody for joining us today on the bird joy podcast. We hope you enjoyed exploring the world of birding and mental health with us today. Shout out to the BIPOC learning club, all my fellow people in the BIPOC flock. We got a lot going on as usual. Go check us out by pocket birding club.org. Yes, yes. And for the homies in Philly, in color birding dot o r g. Check us out. We'll do some winter birding. We'll do some introspection. We'll do some prompts. I'll bring the book from Tama. And if you are in Southern California, you know, definitely check out some of the events notes so that you all can take a look and see what's going on. So thank you again, Tama so much. Yes, please share, subscribe, and shout out this podcast to all your you, Jason. Thank you, Dexter. Thank you, everyone that will listen. This has been a wonderful, joyful dream come true. I love you both. And beyond words, thank you.