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Branding yourself to attract High End clientele - Jeremy Chou
150 Plays3 years ago
Happy Woo Wednesdays! Today's episode is with the famous Jeremy Chou. We have been friends for over a decade and it was so nice to connect. Jeremy is a huge reason why the industy is what is is today. He started the FB group Southern California Wedding Professionals over a decade ago and it's been amazing to see everyone in the group succeed (200 members). When you see his, work, your mouth is going to drop. I love chatting about his mindet of going from a 10k photographer to striving to become a 20k photographer. HOT TOPIC: We can talk about branding yourself to attract the high end clientele, how to curate, how to attract high end clientele, how to increase perceived value Jeremy is a fine art film wedding photographer who has traveled extensively throughout the world capturing beautiful weddings. Trained as an architect, Jeremy has a unique ability to incorporate the environment into his images while telling a compelling story. His work has been seen in all major U.S. wedding blogs and select print publications. He also has taught workshops throughout the U.S., Europe and Asia. Connect with Jeremy Chou https://www.jeremychou.com/ https://www.jeremychouworkshops.com/shop/email-template https://instagram.com/jeremychouphotography
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Transcript
Introduction of Guest and New Initiatives
00:00:00
Speaker
Welcome back to Get a Heck Yes with me, your host, Carissa Wu. I started a new Facebook group and it's a party in there. I go live every Wu Wednesdays with the same topic as my podcast episode. The link is in the bio. So today's episode is with Jeremy Chow. I've known him for almost 10 years and he's been a huge part of making the wedding industry what it is today. It was so nice to reconnect and he's always so down to earth. And if you don't know him, you are living under a rock.
00:00:29
Speaker
your mouth is going to drop when you see his work. Today we chat about how to get high end clients and this conversation can change the trajectory of your entire business.
Mission and Mindset in Wedding Photography
00:00:39
Speaker
Enjoy.
00:00:44
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host, Carissa, and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all. I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle,
00:01:10
Speaker
mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story, time hacks because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly, self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey. I hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon!
00:01:35
Speaker
Hey guys, it's Carissa, as you know, and I'm here with Jeremy Chow, my longtime friend. We haven't talked for a long time, but he's pretty famous, and you should check out his work, Jeremy Chow Photography. His work is amazing. He does film, and it's all high-end clients, which we're gonna talk about later, but welcome, Jeremy. So good to connect with you. Hey, good morning. Good to see you again. Good morning. It's been a while. Yes, it's been a while. When's the last time we've seen each other?
00:02:04
Speaker
Dude. I don't really... Oh my god. It was like... It was like E. Rich Chen's party or something. It's got his birthday party or something. Yeah, it's a long time ago. I don't know. It's been a while. How are your girls? How are your daughters? They're fine. They're old now. One of them is a high school junior now. And she drives. Oh my god. That's kind of scary. Yeah, she sort of drives me around. It's a little scary. And the other one's in middle school. She's in eighth grade.
00:02:32
Speaker
And then she'll be in high school next year. So yeah, they get a lot older. Yes, I know. I know like me and you don't talk much, but I have been following you since I started wedding photography. So I kind of watched them grow up. Yeah, I mean, I started, gosh, like 12 years ago now. So they were only like four and two when I started. Yeah, people told me that we watched them grow up.
00:02:58
Speaker
Yeah, they're so cute, little hopper. Cool. So what have you been up to lately, like, during pandemic?
Pandemic Impact and Adaptation
00:03:07
Speaker
And now what do you I mean, I follow you on Instagram, and I see you always do amazing work. But what's like the life of Jeremy Chow right now? Yeah, so I mean, 2020, I think, you know, with a lot of people, it's definitely a struggle for most people in the industry, because we just would basically shut down by the government.
00:03:25
Speaker
And it didn't pick up, pick back up until I submitted 2021 for most of us until the restrictions were lifted. I was, I was especially impacted because most of my work is a destination and international weddings. So obviously I couldn't travel. International wedding, I couldn't, you know, so I basically was completely, completely shut down from March
00:03:50
Speaker
2020 until September 2020. So like for six, seven months, I didn't shoot any wedding. Yeah, so it was pretty tough.
00:04:00
Speaker
But slowly came back a little bit, but early 2021 was still kind of slowly, and in the middle of June 2021, especially in California, things started to open back up. So the second half of 2021 has been super busy. 2022 looks pretty amazing so far. I'm going to start traveling again. So I just came back from Houston and Mexico, so definitely international wedding is coming back.
00:04:23
Speaker
So last year, during the downtime, I was actually able to record an online course for my entire workshop. This is not online. So that was kind of one exciting project I actually knocked out during the pandemic. What's the course about?
00:04:41
Speaker
It's basically my in-person workshop, but it's 100% online. So I worked with a video crew that they taped basically my lecture, my class, my lecture, whatever you want to call it. It's working with different sections, just like you would in the in-person workshop. And they also follow me to a style shoot I did in Utah, actually Park City, Utah. They follow me behind the scenes. Basically, I talk about how
00:05:08
Speaker
I interact with models like what you know what i look for my shoe of how i should details and stuff like that so i'm very excited about it and it's out yeah so that's kind of one big project i wasn't gonna talk about it but i was kind of the one big project that i knocked out i was super happy about.
00:05:26
Speaker
Congrats. Did you launch it? Thanks. It's launched. Yeah, it's launched. Oh, cool. Yeah. Just to tell the audience that they don't know you if they're not familiar with you. You've been doing workshops or hosting workshops for a long time ever since I started, right? Yeah, I think I think my first workshop was back in
00:05:46
Speaker
2012 or 2013, I think. So yeah, I've been doing them for a while. And then I usually do one or two a year, depends on my schedule. And I've done usual, when I first started, which is in California, but now expanded to Taiwan. And I did in Italy and all over the United States. Now I've done, I don't know, DC, Atlanta, Palm Springs. Wow.
00:06:11
Speaker
I'm drawing a blank right now, but yeah. Yeah, I know. It's going to be all over the
Building and Benefits of Community Groups
00:06:17
Speaker
place. So obviously, again, this year, because Kobe, I haven't been able to do in-person work challenges. I don't feel like that was the right thing to do. But I think next year, definitely a lot more exciting things will be planned next year.
00:06:31
Speaker
Yeah, everyone's like watching Netflix and chilling and Jeremy Chow is making like courses. I do watch Netflix. Cool. Yeah, I turned my whole business to a course too, but that's what we do with the hustle mentality. We don't, we don't like to slow down for too long.
00:06:51
Speaker
But I was going to say, ask you like, tell us a little bit about your Facebook group wedding, California Wedding Professionals, Southern California Wedding Professionals, how many members and how you got started with it. Oh, so I don't know if you know this, but I don't run a group anymore. So I started a group maybe a long time ago. Yeah, like maybe 11 years in the now. So basically, yeah.
00:07:21
Speaker
I don't even realize how old I am until I start talking about this. So I basically started because I was kind of frustrated with the whole industry was at the time. So I think when I started the industry at the time, it was a lot of kind of, I mean, it's still a lot of drama, a lot of just, you know,
00:07:38
Speaker
kind of cutthroat practice. And my thing was always, you know, rising tide lifts a boat. So I really want to start a community where, you know, everybody can just jump in and we all help each other. Doesn't matter what kind of level we were at, how long we've been doing it.
00:07:54
Speaker
I'm a true believer, everybody has something to offer to help. So starting a group basically just, hey, you know, any kind of business question that you have, just go in and you can ask questions without judgment. You know, it wasn't one of those groups where people just go and post photos, basically, hey, like my photos. So like, because I feel everybody's work will get better in time. But I think what's more important is the business aspect. So that's basically how the group got started. And I think it's
00:08:22
Speaker
you know, it's had its ups and downs. And then I like any group goes in. But I do, I did keep the group pretty small, about 200 people, which is small for a Facebook group, and there's some groups like thousands of people. So I kept it small, very manageable. And then, you know, we do have regular mixers.
00:08:46
Speaker
you know, again, before COVID. So everybody actually got together and everybody kind of knew, you know, actually met face to face. So you really created a good sense of community. Which I think, you know, in a way watch a lot of people grow up in that group. I know. Everyone's career kind of, you know, you know, everyone's career keeps going, took off on the help that everybody got in that group. So which is good.
00:09:08
Speaker
No, totally. And we all like refer each other. And I went to the last event, and it's a great community. So that's, that's really, that's really cool that you did that. And it just grew and grew. And just everyone got better. It is kind of interesting to see everyone grow and like everyone being successful. Yeah, I went to the last mixer. So fun to see everyone. Yeah, it's still nice to see people, you know, because US
00:09:31
Speaker
you know, the rate for small business failure, it's half of business close within the first five years, small business, not even high for creatives, like for freelancers. So, you know, it's really nice to see the same people in there after 10 years before still shooting. I know. Like us? Yeah, like 10 years later, 12 years and still shooting, which is really good to see.
00:09:54
Speaker
Yeah, so I wanted to wait to ask this question, but I just have to ask it. But like, how did you develop your, your film, like, high end
Artistry and Style Development
00:10:03
Speaker
style? Like, where did that all come from? You can start like that. Yeah. So let me start way. Yeah, so when I first started, it's just like everybody else. And not now, like, when I first started, there was no Instagram. Yeah, there was no Pinterest. Facebook was barely started getting more popular.
00:10:22
Speaker
So this was before social media and when you know, it was really difficult for you to like follow a photographer Because back then you literally have to go on the website. You have to check the blogs you have to subscribe to their RSS feed I don't remember that so So that's kind of how you have to do it to really know, you know, really check out other people's work It's not like today you get on your phone. There's like 10 million photos. You can just look you know, scroll through and
00:10:47
Speaker
So when I first started, it definitely took a while to hone in on my style and my background in architecture. I was an architect before. Oh, that's right. I knew that. I have a degree in architecture. So I incorporated a lot of architecture elements into my photos and that's kind of...
00:11:03
Speaker
what made me different in the beginning, that's kind of what set me apart. So I kind of found my niche and I honed in on it. So I remember when I used to, you know, interview clients, I would say like, Hey, your venue is really cool. Like you will want an architect to document this, right? Like, I'll tell them, you know, basically, hey, if you hire me, I have the I have the education of the eye to incorporate your unique venue into your photos. Wow, that really, really sold.
00:11:31
Speaker
Um, sold me to a lot of clients where they like, Oh yeah, no, you're right. So, um, so in the beginning of my, my career, I did a lot of like, what we call big Epic shots, right? Like, you know, your clients like that small, you just do a lot of environment. Um,
00:11:45
Speaker
which high, which hit one of my biggest insecurity back then, which was posing. I didn't know how to pose my client. Right. And it's so like, when I do big photos, like it doesn't matter because he can't see the face anyways. So, you know, so back then, that's kind of really how I did it. But then after a while, it became kind of like, Hey, you know, you need to start posing your clients. Every shot can be far away. Oh, that's funny. So I got so, you know, so I,
00:12:14
Speaker
I've always liked film photos, but I didn't know they were actual film. So I'm sure everybody knows who Jose Villa is who's gone on to become the greatest, the goat of all time for photography. So I started, you know, I looked at his work and I actually didn't know, I didn't know he shot film. I just like really liked the aesthetic of it. But more importantly, I liked the feeling that you gave me when I looked at his photos. I couldn't, at the time I couldn't really articulate
00:12:42
Speaker
why I like the photos or why it made me feel good. But I just remember looking at his photos, just like, man, this makes me feel so calm. This makes me feel like, you know, not overly excited. It doesn't make me like, you know,
00:12:57
Speaker
I just love the feeling. Yeah, I feel like a piece. There's like a gentle sweetness to his photos and which one I really, really like. And I was like, what the hell is he doing that I'm not doing? So I started studying his work and among other stuff, you know, other photography that kind of has the same aesthetic. And I realized, well, first of all, he shot film. And of course I was like, okay, I'm going to shoot film so I can, my photos gonna look like, and then I start shooting film and I realized no, it's more than just shooting film.
00:13:24
Speaker
So it's about the mood, it's about the emotion it captures, it's about the posing, it's about everything. So I started studying his work really intensely and eventually I kind of cracked the code, I guess. I figured it took like years for me to do all this. Remember, this was before social media, he didn't post that much. He didn't post that much on his website or blog, so I had to really study it.
00:13:54
Speaker
Wow. So that's kind of my style started changing when I started shooting film. This has to be like seven, eight years ago. So I shot digital for about three years. And then after that, I went hybrid. Basically, I shot both digital and film. And then a couple of years later, I switched to almost exclusively film because I just like the way it looks and the way it kind of forced me to be, in my opinion, forced me to be a better photographer.
00:14:22
Speaker
because everything became so intentional when i was shooting because for first it's expensive and second i only get sixteen shots on one roll film so i have to really like make it count so i started to preconceived the image in my head before i start shooting in comparison to digital i feel like i wish i was i was
00:14:44
Speaker
you know, shooting and then looking at the photos, like see what I caught. I want to be able to see the photos before I take it. So which is what film has kind of forced me to do, which I still do to this day. I really feel like it just made me, you know, preconceived a shot preconceived a scene before I take the photo, which in turn made me a better photographer. So that's kind of how my style has changed throughout the years. I mean, I look I go back look at my stuff on
00:15:09
Speaker
you know, 18 years ago, I mean, they weren't, they weren't terrible, because I mean, people pay me for it. But it's just not what I would do today. Yeah, I feel like my work. So one thing I do keep pushing myself is the level of refinement of my work, I keep pushing myself to refine my work every year, just like, okay, how do you do this one thing better? How do you just change the mood of this one pose better? Like, I spent a year trying to figure out hand holding.
00:15:40
Speaker
like how to hold hands like you know in photos and what like what different holding hand different style holding hands and what kind of feeling does it evoke
00:15:49
Speaker
And then you become this thing's breathing exercise thing that I have my clients do. And that's a change of mood of the photos. Yes, all of a sudden took just studying. But every time I do, I figure something out like this, it continues to refine my work. And, you know, again, allows me to keep charging more and more because I feel like, you know, the higher you go in pricing, the more your clients are going to expect certain things from you, right? Obviously, they expect something that's a little different. Otherwise, why would they pay this kind of money for
00:16:19
Speaker
something everybody else can do. So yeah, so that's kind of that's kind of how my style has evolved over the years right now. It's definitely both finding our portraiture. Yeah, it's very natural, very organic. I don't I post all my clients and one thing I do tell them is like, Hey, listen, I don't I'm not gonna make you do something you normally wouldn't do. I just look I just make it look much prettier. Yeah, yeah. Which take
00:16:45
Speaker
That's so interesting. So I love how you use like your architectural brain and your, you know, your background to like have people pose and like hold hands. And that's kind of like the way you think and I like what you said about like, using your background, like architecture at
00:17:02
Speaker
And that would be like your woo factor, your Germany child factor, your value proposition, like, and you told clients when you first started like, Hey, I'm architecture, and I could implement like, these architectural like elements to your wedding or your engagement shoe. And that was kind of like your selling point. And
00:17:20
Speaker
And for me, like I danced my whole life. I'm not good or anything, but I dance like in high school and college and I did ballet. So I felt like that was one of my selling points, too, when I first started. And I would tell people, hey, I've been dancing my whole life, so I know how to pose you. And I know, like, there you go, how you shouldn't have double chins and skinny arms and all that kind of stuff. So that's kind of interesting. Like it's the line when you just start. So it's a good tip for the audience.
00:17:48
Speaker
Yeah. And that's one thing I do tell my, my special workshop attendees, like, Hey, look, there's something different. There's something unique about you. And that's why you need to sell. Otherwise you just let's same as everybody else. Like what people only pay more for something that's different. Yeah. Like we don't pay more for like a fast food burger. I mean, it's the same as, you know, it's the same. But if we go to a different restaurant, it's a different experience, like a more expensive, you know,
00:18:14
Speaker
It's still a burger, but it's a different experience and we tend to pay more for it because it's different. And so yeah, so dance is definitely a great background because you know, you know, the lines of the body.
00:18:24
Speaker
Um, that's actually, I know quite a few photographers that used to be dancers and they all, they, they do this. Which is, I mean, I wish I knew, understand how like body parts. Oh my God. That's so cool. So I guess we will go into our hot topic. Um, tell us about the hot topic today. Perfectly like alludes to it and why you chose this hot topic.
00:18:51
Speaker
Yeah, so one of the one of the things I feel like a lot of people, photographers that they kind of get stuck on, especially when they're at the level, they're kind of they, you know, they've been doing this for a few years now, they're like in the middle of the market, which is what I call like the pricing dead zone, like in the market, like where all the photographers go.
Curating Work for High-End Appeal
00:19:11
Speaker
their careers, a figurative speaking, they go to die a painful death, like in this, in this pricing, in the middle, they never get out of that mid range market. And it's just a painful place to come. And I feel for photographers to get out of that price range, once you've mastered obviously the technical aspect of stuff, right, like,
00:19:31
Speaker
You know how to expose, you know how to edit, you know how to shoot with a card quite balanced and all that. Once you master that, so okay, so what's next? What's going to make you stand out, right? Ultimately, as photographers, our work has to be good. I mean, you can say, you know, the personality is marketing. Yes, all that matters. But yes, at the end of the day, your work has to be good. So, um, so I was, what I was going to talk about is when you curate, how do you curate your work to attract a high end client, the high end clientele?
00:19:59
Speaker
And that in itself, it's kind of an art form. Because again, once you've mastered the technical aspect of photography, you need to concentrate on the mood. Like how does your image make people feel? That's kind of the next step. Because everybody, I mean, honestly, nowadays with the mirrorless camera out, it's face tracking. Like everybody can shoot a 1.2 tack sharp. Everybody can do it now, right? So like it doesn't make you different just because your background is blurry now.
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, you know, because back then, back then, that was kind of the thing like, Oh my God, your bouquet is so good. Your background is so pretty. But literally not everybody can do it. So now it becomes like, okay, so what's the what's the mood your image is generating? Like how does people respond to an image on the emotional level? And I feel like to get out to get on the price range in the middle, you need to really focus on that. Like, okay, so you need to you need to any kind of high end brand will tell you
00:20:58
Speaker
their goal is not to steal a product. Their goal is to appeal to the client's emotional need. Whatever that is, right? Whatever that is. For weddings, and then you kind of have to know your clients, like what are the emotional need I can feel? Because again, everybody can shoot a nice photo. No, everybody can. So what makes your photos different? How are your clients going to react to images? That's what sets my work apart.
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think just trying to like, you know, relate to what you're trying to say is, you know, now I've been making reels and my style has always been kind of more on the fun, goofy side. So, you know, even when I make my reels, my last row was about like a dinosaur and a panda. And maybe my clientele is not like high end, but they still will pay like, you know, five to eight K. Yeah.
00:21:49
Speaker
So it's still, it's still like when people are like a fun couple, they're like, Oh, we'll hire Carissa because it's like fun or funny. And so every time I go to a wedding, I try to find something like funny or bad or like interesting. I think my last row, the row before that Panda one was like, we were on scooters. So like the electric scooters, the birds. So something like unique, but I guess like,
00:22:14
Speaker
it taps into the, hey, let's have fun emotion. And for you, I think it taps into this love, how you said it was this gentleness about it and how you wouldn't put people in certain situations that they would normally not be in. You don't want them to feel uncomfortable. And I feel like you just
00:22:37
Speaker
perfectly place everything like it's beautifully curated, but it's also very authentic. So it's interesting that you like you talking so much about emotion. I love that tip. Yeah, so so you know, there's no
00:22:49
Speaker
you know, there's not a right or wrong way to as long as you're booking clients who are booking because they like you. I mean, I think that's all that matters at the end of the day. And I do, I do know a lot of photographers they like you, they're, they're, they're fun, they're all going and they do let that personality come through in their photos. And not to say I'm a stiff, I'm a funny guy. But I think my, in my work, it's a very,
00:23:12
Speaker
I would say it's more serious looking. Like I would say a lot of times it's more editorial looking. So I definitely don't do like the, you know, the dark and moody or like the goofy poses, you know, like the, yeah. And I know some people pull that off. It's just not me. And also there are some photographers where they're like,
00:23:34
Speaker
you know, pretend this is the last time you're going to see each other. He's going out to war. They try to make their clients cry and stuff. Again, that's just not me. But if you're going to get clients paid for that, by all means, that's just not me. So I'm really honing on the work that I like. I feel like the work reflects who I am as a person.
00:23:54
Speaker
And then it becomes almost effortless because I'm not faking it. For me personally, that's the work I enjoy looking at. That's the work I enjoy in my social media feed. I like that kind of work. And I also look at a lot of Renaissance painting where it tends to be a more serious nature. Oh, interesting. Just not a lot of people.
00:24:23
Speaker
I mean, if you look at any Renaissance painting, there's not a lot of people like doing belly laughs, you know what I mean? So it's definitely more, you know, like kind of more demure, kind of control, I call them control emotions. Yeah, I love that. But it's very subtle. And it's, it's powerful, subtle, but it's powerful. Yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, it's a wedding photo, you don't want to look sad. But I like it to look, you know, just kind of, you know, like more demure, more like control. And what you said in the beginning, like peaceful.
00:24:54
Speaker
Yeah, cool. Okay, that was a great tip. That's great tip for every brand out there wedding professionals or non wedding professionals like kind of like sell something that appeals to their emotional need. That's really my moment. Take it away with number two.
00:25:14
Speaker
I got in the last like two or three days, 18 inquiries. What the heck? Hey guys, you all know me. I'm Carissa Wu and I'm a coach for wedding photographers. I've also been a wedding photographer for over a decade, so I've been through it all. I was a shy, awkward girl and I've come so far. I'm now beyond passionate about helping wedding photographers not struggle how I did for so many years.
00:25:41
Speaker
It was six years into my business and I was so tired of being ghosted, nickel undimed, and hearing the dreaded words, we went a different direction. I also knew I needed to find a way to not rely on referrals or paying $350 a month for the knot to get my leads.
00:25:56
Speaker
I didn't want to have anxiety about when my next payday was going to come and I wanted to scale my business. Fast forward to now, I created my very own stack system to help wedding photographers get constant leads and master the dreaded sales call and get a heck yes in 24 hours or less.
00:26:14
Speaker
and charge more than 4, 5, 6K. No more waiting around, guys. This is our livelihood, our artistry, and our passion, and we deserve to be respected, valued, and paid for what we are worth. I've helped so many wedding photographers. Watch my 20-minute masterclass all about lead generation and closing the sale. The link is in the bio. You don't want to miss out on the wedding boom, and you don't want to miss out on booking your calendar for 2022.
00:26:40
Speaker
It's engagement season, guys. So you don't want to miss this. See you guys soon. I feel like when you want to curate your work and you have to first know your clientele. Okay. So I know that I can tell you the specific clientele I go after, like the demographic, how much money they make, what kind of what kind of professions they have. But like, you know, when I get a new client, I'm like, okay, are you a doctor or an accountant? I get pretty much the same clientele all the time. And it's amazing.
00:27:10
Speaker
how consistent the personalities are. Yeah, I feel my work appeals to a very specific type of people, right? Like they usually professional, they usually, you know, high income earners, they want, they know what they want, and they don't mind spending money on it. But they expect, you know, to receive what they paid for, right?
00:27:31
Speaker
So my second part would be really know your clientele. If you want to go high end, you have to know what your client is like. For example,
00:27:43
Speaker
There's a specific flower, a leaf, I should say, a greenery for florals. You would never see that on a high-end wedding. Never. So if I get a wedding with that kind of floral, that wedding is not getting shown anywhere.
00:28:02
Speaker
Yes. Because I know a higher-end clientele are going to look at it. They're going to be like, oh, why is this here? So if I'm appealing to a higher-end clientele, I need to speak their language. I need to know, hey, look, this is what they look for. They want to know Jeremy can capture a high-end wedding.
00:28:22
Speaker
Okay. So, and let me back up just a little. So my definition of a high-end client is quite different than most people. Okay. My definition of a high-end client is the one that pays my fee. Okay. Right. So right now it's not 10,000. Yes. That's like that. So my definition is the client that pays my fee is my high-end client, right? So like, for example, I had a client which hired me for her backyard micro wedding for six people, right?
00:28:48
Speaker
But she paid my full fee and her sister did a flower and her mom cooked and basically I was the sole high expense for them. But it would be wrong for me to say they are not my high-end client. So for me, again, high-end client is just the one that pays all my fees. Like whatever I ask for, that's what they pay them. That's my high-end client, right?
Journey to High-End Photography
00:29:10
Speaker
Um, and then I, I have, again, I came back from avoiding Mexico where it's like 150 people, like the budgets by 500,000 and above. So like it's, there's, it's just all different. Um, but, um, again, that's how I define my, my hiring clients. So anyways, so going back to what I was saying before. So if you want to track a certain specific type of crowd, you have to get into the heads. You have to, excuse me, you had to basically do your market research.
00:29:35
Speaker
You have to know like, okay, I'm going after this very specific niche of clients. Where do they shop? What do they buy? What do they like? What do they wear? What their personality is like? You have to really gain their head. Okay. And one of the best advice I've received is that you can't look at money the way you... Look at money. Yeah, you can't look at the way other people spend money the way you spend money.
00:30:02
Speaker
Because I didn't grow up being a rich family. We weren't rich growing up by any stretch of imagination. We were very middle class. And then we actually immigrated to America. My parents struggled a little bit. So I didn't grow up rich. So to say I relate to clients who were rich, no, I can't relate to them. They just can't. But I know how to speak a language. I know what they like because I deal with them so much. I know exactly what they like.
00:30:29
Speaker
So with that kind of clients, you know, you had just had, you know, really curious work to show what will appeal to them. Interesting. What was that movie that won all the awards like the Korean one where it was like the poor and the parasite? Oh, yeah, parasite. It reminds me of like the poor, the guy like he had to like,
00:30:51
Speaker
talk like he was rich or the girl. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. The girl pretended to be like a tutor or like, yeah, I was like, no way. So you do, I mean, and you know, this is kind of side note. I think a lot of people, you know, when they first started, they're like, Oh, I want to be best friends with my clients all that. Like, after you've done after you've been doing this while you realize you can't your clients are not like you. They have their own different, you know, priorities. They've known different lives and all that. I'm
00:31:19
Speaker
I'm definitely friendly with my clients, but I'm not getting invited to kids birthday parties. I actually purposely stay away from my clients. I create a buffer between myself and my clients on purpose. Me too. It makes everything easier. Of course, the clients I feel more connected with and I don't want to be friends with them after the wedding is over. Everything is delivered. They're happy. Totally. Before that, I know.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's interesting. So we got to do tip number three fast but I wanted to ask this question. How did Jeremy Chow get so bougie?
00:31:57
Speaker
It wasn't, I'm just kidding. I'm not sure this shows $50. I know. That's what I'm saying. Because you're like the most down to earth guy wearing, you know, your, your shirt. But so was it coming from like the architectural field and you just like wanted this high end client? Was it because? Oh, okay. That's a different question. Okay. So here's, here's, here's how that happened.
00:32:24
Speaker
I was shooting weddings, like I would chart in 2000, 2500, right? Like everybody else, right? So like two years in, dude, I was booking, like, I was booking best. I was shooting 30, 40 weddings a year, right? But I was 25, $3,000. And then every wedding I went to, every wedding I booked, I was the wedding planner. I was the DJ. Like, you know, I had to write my, I had to write my clients a time. I actually have a whole email template set up because of this. Cause I used to have to do all this, right?
00:32:53
Speaker
So I used to have to send my clients a timeline. I used to have to send them the family photo list. I used to, like, first dance, I remember I had to go to a DJ and say, hey, you need to clear out everybody on the dance floor. Like, he forgot because he's like the bride's cousin or something, right? And then my first wedding, I was helping a couple of setting up centerpieces because they ran out of time. Because they have the floors, right? So after you do it 30 times a year,
00:33:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's too much. You're like, you're like, this is not my job. Oh my God. I hate it when it's like, if I had to do this at every wedding, because I want to shoot photos. I don't, I don't like, you know, like the bride has a tear on her dress. I had to like get like shouting, like trying to call you. I'm like, dude, it's not my job, right? So after, after you do that one-to-many wedding, I had to like, okay, I can't do this anymore.
00:33:42
Speaker
So I need, what do I do here? Like I still like shooting weddings, but I don't like shooting this kind of wedding. So I decide, okay, I need to raise my prices because like, none of my clients have wedding planners.
00:33:52
Speaker
And so I raised my price and I just had wedding plans. I remember shooting a wedding. There were like five wedding planners there, right? Somebody was following the bride's mom. Somebody was following the bride. And there's one that's in charge of the clipboard and headphones. And then I was like, this is amazing. I went and did my work and that's all I had to do. So I was like, okay, this is the kind of wedding I want to shoot, right? I don't want to shoot one where I'm everything to everybody. I'm a photographer. That's all I do. So slowly just,
00:34:18
Speaker
you know, just raise my prices and to try to get out that dead zone in the middle. And they eventually became a game to see how far I can push it. Oh, good job. Yeah, it kind of became this thing where like, okay, Jeremy, if you're going to do this, you're going to try to be the best at it. You don't want to be mediocre. You don't want to be like, you know, just like everybody else, like how far can you push this, right? And then just, you know, just like mentality. And I know I'm nowhere near like the top of the game or anything like that, but I feel like
00:34:47
Speaker
No, I feel like I'm maybe like pricing wise, maybe top 10%. Yeah. But there's definitely a 5% that I'm trying to get. So anyway, so my point is,
00:35:04
Speaker
I always set up goals for myself, try to hit like the next goal. What's the next goal? What's next goal? So how do I hit 20,000? Right? Like, it's kind of like the next goal now. Hey, you're so awesome. I'm so excited. Before I forget to say Jeremy, shout out to your email templates and everyone compresses them for $70. But I still use them for the past like 10 years and they're the best.
00:35:27
Speaker
Yeah, because you do you were the planner, like you said, Hey, here's your pre timeline. This is back three months before you map it all out, clean the room. And you really, really helped me in my photography career. Here's an email template for the vendors and after the wedding, you know, to get on the vendor list and really, really helped me. Yeah, those are all the email template I used, like every single one of them. And then, you know, when you get good at the point, it really makes the
00:35:57
Speaker
um uh communication streamlined and makes you look very professional because you have everything dialed in before the wedding um but you know right now i i i use i still use i mean i don't use all the templates i still use some because right now if i send out a timeline stepping on the planner's toes now yeah stuff like that i just don't do it anymore okay having photo lists i still do it uh as far as i clean the room the planner already got it yeah i don't just there's stuff they're modification to what i'm doing now but
00:36:25
Speaker
But no, I'm glad to hear that. Yeah, it's so good. And yeah, everyone should purchase it. It's $70. It's on your website. And you could go find him on Instagram too. But yeah, you have to have it. It will change the game. Okay, take it away with tip number three real fast. And we'll go into rapid fire questions and learn more about you like on Jeremy. Yeah, so number three, I, I, and this one's gonna be
00:36:50
Speaker
This one just comes with training. So the third one, everything matters, right? So when I say that, it's every little thing matters, like in your photo. So if I walk in a room, and this is kind of what I do when I get in a room. I go in a room, I find a corner that I like.
00:37:06
Speaker
Right. And then like in the hotel room, for example, getting ready, I find a corner that like I go in, I literally clean out everything in the corner that I don't want into my photo. Okay. Everything in the photo is intentional. Right. So I've removed paintings from the wall. I've removed, um, um, um, uh, lamps, telephone TVs. Like, uh, I throw my back at a wedding cause I try to move a table.
00:37:32
Speaker
So when I go in, I move everything, I clean out everything in the background, everything, like there's no trash anywhere. So if you look at my photos, like one thing people always say like, Oh my God, your weddings are just so clean. Why does it look so clean? Because I clean everything before I start shooting.
00:37:49
Speaker
And in my photos, I tend to shoot really clean background, right? Because I know with my clients, especially the hiring clients, like every little thing matters in the sense that, like, Jeremy, why didn't you move that trash can in the back? Like, Jeremy, there's a water bottle in the back. Did you not see that? Or like, it becomes even more, it becomes a little more
00:38:10
Speaker
intense in the sense that, okay, so in the photo where the bride has, or the groom has this really intense look at his bride, and the bride is like, you know, so like the mood doesn't match, right? So the mood isn't matching anymore. So right now it becomes that like, okay, how do I get the mood to match, right? So when I say little things, it's literally going to like the whole, the entire branding, right? And also, email templates, one of them, I'm constantly tweaking my website, there can be no holes in my branding, right?
00:38:40
Speaker
There's still holes there. So that's why I got to keep tweaking it. But it's definitely a lot less than a lot harder to find out. Once you watch people say, you're like, hey, you missed the comma here. Or like, hey, the format is a little off here. And I was just going to fix it, right? So especially with the high incline tool, I realized that they pay attention to all the little tiny details. And it might not be something that's like one thing might not be a deal breaker. But if you
00:39:06
Speaker
It's like the totality of things, right? If you keep having mistakes, well, I call them mistakes. Like I didn't remove a water bottle in the background and I should have done it. If you have enough of a mistake, it starts to dilute your brand. So if you look at very high-end photographers, there's not a single mistake in any photo. So every little thing matters.
00:39:31
Speaker
And in like, you know, your invitation, if you're doing a flatly has to be perfectly straight, you can't be crooked. Yeah, be shooting a table like so there's another thing I do for my clients where I go shoot a reception. I actually if I don't like the way set up like a table skate, I actually grab everything and set up my own vignette.
00:39:50
Speaker
So that way that one photo becomes like the shot for the details and obviously when you shoot like a white room shot doesn't matter but when I shoot like a one detail shot I move everything tighter so I can create the look that I want and my clients appreciate that they're like you know because I feel they hire me for the eye for detail that way I can make the wedding look as pretty as it possibly can.
00:40:09
Speaker
Interesting. Okay, I'm going to recap real fast and we'll go into rapid fire questions. Sure. So you know how to get high end clients. So number one is your work has to like be emotional. And that's how you're going to sell at an emotional level. And number two, you have to know your clientele. It's funny, you said doctor accountants, because I get a lot of doctor accountants, but are so different. But you know, we have to know their personalities and how to speak their language.
00:40:35
Speaker
And then number three is everything matters. So perfectionist Jeremy Chow. And you know, I was at a wedding last week at Orange Hill and you know, the getting ready area was so small. So I took them to yeah, like a corner of the reception hall with good light and a pretty like stone background and did all my photos there. So, and I definitely now, you know, doing this for 12 years, I look for the water bottles and I look for the mess because I don't want the extra work with two kids, like two babies.
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, it's I can't shop anymore. So yeah, those are all great tips. And let's just go into rapid fire questions. They're a little bit shorter. But you gave so much for this question already, like you answered it in many, many different ways. But what's your biggest like, heck yes, strategy? As far as booking clients go? Yeah, I think
00:41:28
Speaker
How do you just be nice to the vendors? Be nice to the vendors. I mean, I think all the other things are kind of given. Like you've got to do good work and you can do good work. I think all that's just given.
00:41:41
Speaker
But being nice to vendors and fellow photographers, that's a huge thing. Yeah. And let me define what that means being nice. Don't be difficult on a date. Don't be a diva. We all work together as a team. When people ask for photos, I see these questions all the time. Why is this even a question? People are like, oh, the planet asked me for a photo. I want a water market. I want them to sign documents. They will credit me.
00:42:08
Speaker
I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I feel like the longer you've done this, the less you care. Like, do whatever you want. Here's a full gallery, take it. Ah, totally. I'm the same way. Here's a full gallery, just grab whatever you want. I don't care. You're going to create any great. If you don't, at least I know it. Like you like my photos enough to share it, right? Oh, I know. I'm with you. I mean, I send an initial email to the, Hey, this is for your use. I appreciate if you, if you, you know, tag me, but I don't follow it. I don't.
00:42:32
Speaker
me too. I'm not be a jerk about it. So, and one thing is really always be thankful with the vendors you work for because I do a ton of style shoots. And people are always like, Oh my God, I thought it was amazing. I'm like, and I always, I always tell people like no, no, no, no.
00:42:45
Speaker
I'm just the guy with the camera. I didn't put the flowers together. I didn't do the styling. I didn't do the hair and makeup. Yes, I shot photos, but like the whole team's behind it, right? So a lot of times when my photos get reposted, I will actually go in like if I get tagged, only I get tagged. I was like, no, here's the entire team. You need to tag the entire team.
00:43:04
Speaker
And you do that consistently for 10 years. You start building up a reputation with people like they like to work with you. Because they know you always give credit. And one thing is, it's honestly just, you know, you have to kind of just always be humble, especially without the vendors. Like, you know, you think you charge a lot, there's people charge at 10 times what I charge, you know what I mean? Like, I think Jose starts at $50,000 now. It's like, it's stupid.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's just stupid amount of money. So like, you know, I started 10 it was nowhere near the top. So there's always room to grow. So it's one of the things where just be I think being nice to all the vendors comes with being humble as well. Like just don't think you're better than everybody. We're just photographers. I take photos. That's it. Like, you know, I just take photos. That's so nice, Jeremy. What is your favorite wedding you travel to?
Pricing Strategies and Favorite Destinations
00:43:55
Speaker
It's got to be Italy. So I've done quite a few Italy. So now the biggest difference in Italy weddings is this. They like to eat, and they take a lot of time to eat. It's like literally a two-hour dinner, right? So vendors, you get your own table, and they just buy bottles of wine on the table because drinking Italy is not a thing. Even kids drink wine.
00:44:19
Speaker
And you know how it is that people don't like photos of themselves eating while they're eating. So like doing dinner, we're just a little chill with our vendors. And we're just, you know, you get a nice little break. And a lot of times clients will come and say hi and all that. And they don't expect any photos during that time. And, you know, and plus, I mean, it's freaking Italy. I mean, you can go wrong. You can take them anywhere. It'll be pretty.
00:44:38
Speaker
Yeah, my favorite wedding was Croatia. We were drinking wine, like taking breaks. Any European wedding, the culture is just completely different. Like here, I feel like at the end of 10 hours a day, I think I just want to die. Your body takes such a hit. Totally. But Europe, you actually just slow down. You actually enjoy your day.
00:44:58
Speaker
Oh, I love that. Okay, last question. And then we'll tell people where to find you. It's kind of an interesting question. But what would be your strategy to go from 10k to 20k?
00:45:12
Speaker
Oh, God. So yeah, so at this point, nobody's finding me off Google at this point, right? People just random Googling search me, it's not gonna book me. It's been like that for a while. But you know, when I was like 7k or 8k, people still could do it. But 10k above, it's all planners now, all planners, right? So
00:45:32
Speaker
To go from 10K to 20K, you've got to work with the right people, know the right people. Right now, I have planners basically like, hey, my client, I just booked a few weddings of 15,000 or 17,000. Basically, planners say, hey, I have a client, this is a budget, can you do it? Yeah. Okay, you're booked, right?
00:45:52
Speaker
And if I have five of those planners, I'm done, right? I'm good. So right now, it's just kind of working the right planners. And also, I want to continue to improve my work. So there's definitely
00:46:06
Speaker
a trajectory where I want my work to go. So in the beginning, it was very architectural inspired and it becomes film. That's why I'm a portraiture. But right now, I'm concentrating a lot on mood right now. Okay. And the next level that is I want to get very good into storytelling.
00:46:22
Speaker
Oh, you're so good already. So, well, you can always get better. Yeah. So like, so I want to keep controlling, like, you know, learn how to control the mood, really get that mood out of my clients. And then just tell a better story on the wedding day. I don't think that, I think ultimately, that's kind of what we do with storytellers. But how do we tell the story? What makes your storytelling different than everybody else's, right?
00:46:48
Speaker
Interesting. This is so cool. I love this conversation. Tell everyone where to find you and tell them the audience how to sign up for your course.
Closing and Resources
00:46:58
Speaker
Uh, yeah, so they can, um, well, Instagram is one of the best one, Jeremy Child Photography, uh, at Jeremy Child Photography. My website is my name, JeremyChild.com. Uh, there's a link from my website to my workshop website, which has the email templates and also the online course and all that. You can all link it on JeremyChild.com. It's a little drop down on the bottom on the top. So it's for, for, for photographers. Um, any kind of workshop announcement will come through Instagram. Um,
00:47:24
Speaker
German child photography doesn't also not on German workshop at German workshop as well. So that's pretty much what people can buy me.
00:47:31
Speaker
Cool. And if you ever want to like team up for anything, let me know if you need someone to talk about like mastering the sales call or anything like that. Let me know. But yeah, let's keep in touch for sure. We don't want to go so long without connecting. Yeah, it's been crazy. I mean, social media is kind of weird because like you see people on social media, you feel like, oh, I know what they're up to, but you really don't.
00:47:57
Speaker
But it was so good to catch up. And every time I've seen you in the past, you're always super fun to talk to and easy going. That's why you have this big business of people wanting to connect with you all the time. Well, good catching up. Yeah, Christmas, maybe a little mixer or something. I'll see you there.
00:48:19
Speaker
Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine. See you next time, wedding pros.