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đď¸ Episode 201: Give a Client Experience That Creates Superfans with Jake Wysocki
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Happy Woo Wednesdays! Carissa Woo Here!
In this episode of Get a Heck Yes, I sit down with Jake Wysocki, founder of IntentionCraft, to talk about how to deliver a world-class client experience that turns happy clients into raving superfans.
Jake shares practical ways to infuse intention into every touchpointâfrom first inquiry to final deliveryâand why going the extra mile isnât just about service, itâs about strategy. We dig into:
- How to build trust and wow clients without burning out
- The mindset shift from âserving clientsâ to âcrafting experiencesâ
- Why your workflow is part of your marketing
- Real-life examples from creative businesses doing it right
If youâve ever wondered how to make your clients feel something deeper and keep coming back for more, this episode will light you up.
đĄ Grab Jakeâs Free Resources:
đ WorkshopWHY.com â Access his 45-minute Workshop WHY Session + the World Class Workshop Crash Course
đ Connect with Jake:
Website: www.intentioncraft.com
đ Resources Mentioned:
- The Nathan Barry Show (episode with John Meese â about sales)
- Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction: Carissa and Jake on Creating Superfans
00:00:00
Speaker
Happy Woo Wednesdays. Just got back from Japan and it was amazing, but I'm glad to be back. Today i have Jake Wysocki from Intentional Crafting.
00:00:10
Speaker
The hot topic today is about creating experiences that make super fans. He is a super interesting person and he's going to give you some crazy mindset shift today with your approach to your business.
00:00:23
Speaker
I love his concept of asking your potential clients their hopes and fears. he goes deep into that. I love his theory about emotional selling before you even talk about pricing or deliverables with your clients.
00:00:35
Speaker
And I love his quotes, one thing approach to his week schedule. So many good nuggets. It's so good. i know you will stay to the end. Enjoy this episode.
Carissa's Journey as a Wedding Photographer
00:00:52
Speaker
Welcome to Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. I'm your host Carissa and I've been a Los Angeles wedding photographer for over a decade. I've traveled the world, built my team, and seen it all.
00:01:03
Speaker
I now coach wedding photographers hit 10K a month and build a thriving business. In this podcast, we are going to deep dive into how top wedding creatives get that heck yes from their dream clients. We are not holding back on the struggles of the business and how to push through the noise. Some healthy hustle, mindset shifts, up-leveling your money story,
00:01:21
Speaker
Time hacks because I'm a mom of two, a little bit of woo-woo, and most importantly, self-love and confidence are just a few of the many things we will talk about. I want to give you a genuine thank you for following along my journey.
00:01:33
Speaker
i hope to inspire you every Woo Wednesday so that you say heck yes to listening to this podcast. See you guys soon.
00:01:43
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome back to Get a Heck Yes with your girl, Carissa
Jake's Background and Design Thinking
00:01:47
Speaker
Wu. I'm back from my trip from Japan. I'm a little jet lagged, but I'm so excited to be here with a Jake Wysocki. He is a former design thinking strategist who trained hundreds in corporate workshop facilitation.
00:02:01
Speaker
He's now helped coaches create world-class workshops through done with you approach. And I met you through our buddy Ed Oyama from Super Simple Marketing. We love him dearly. Yep.
00:02:12
Speaker
What's up, Jake? How's it going? And shout out to Ed, my ah Uber driver, when I was last in town. Oh, how nice. Did you guys do anything fun? Yeah, we just went and grabbed some food and caught up. where We know each other through our entrepreneur network and we grabbed some lunch. I can't remember the name of the place, but it's down in down south of Pasadena.
00:02:30
Speaker
So um it was great. Oh, that's awesome. Well, Jake, thank you for being here. tell the Heck Yes listeners who you are in a nutshell. Yeah. Yeah, thanks for having me. um So I help coaches and consultants build and deliver world class workshops, which you might be sitting there thinking like, why are you talking to us? And my thought was, so number one, I'm into photography myself.
00:02:52
Speaker
um So there's, you know, the photography angle of your audience. But that's not really what I'm here to talk about. I don't do photography for a professional business. but what i do do is help people build great experiences for their clients and this is definitely uh important for anybody doing um wedding photography or or services around that um i was married i'm still married i was married 10 years ago and went through this process myself and thankfully had a great experience but i've heard horror stories about like oh this didn't go out well we had great experience except for a videographer we could talk about that if it really matters so
00:03:24
Speaker
But it really speaks to this this special day for the clients out there that your listeners have is like going to happen hopefully
Importance of Memorable Client Experiences
00:03:31
Speaker
once. And it's a really big deal. So if you can make it, you can elevate that experience for them, you're going to win those great fans that keep coming back. So for example, just wanted to share, and I know I'm talking longer. You told me not to keep it short. We met recently, but I talk a lot. So you could talk to Ed about that. No, I'm listening.
00:03:47
Speaker
Perfect. So and then real quick, put a bow on this. The um ah my wedding photographer, we actually just saw him when I was in town. And I saw Ed as well for ah what for a ah reunion. We had him come and do our family photos and stuff then.
00:04:01
Speaker
So because his experience was so good. This is why I'm such a fan of like, think about your clients, be human centered and provide a great experience there. I'll get off my soapbox for now. oh I mean, that's a soapbox for your photographers. You want to give a shout out?
00:04:13
Speaker
Yeah, ah Robert Pates, and he's actually down in in your neck of the woods. I don't know his whole service area, but we we got married in LA because that's where my wife is from. Okay, yeah. I mean, i am where was I got married the same year as you, 2015, so 10 years, right? Yeah. 2014, technically. Oh, 2014, okay. Where was your wedding venue?
00:04:33
Speaker
It was at the Equestrian Center in Burbank, think. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was great. It was lovely. Yeah, love that. I love that venue. Yeah, my wife did a bunch of horse riding and stuff. So we had some horses in the background for some of the pictures and stuff. think she was on a horse. I wasn't on a horse.
00:04:50
Speaker
I'm not like against horses, but that's not really my thing. I'm like, I'm going to keep my suit clean and like you do your thing. That's fine. yeah it was great. yeah Awesome. Cool, cool, cool.
Jake's Engineering and Personal Journey
00:04:59
Speaker
Okay, let's get into your origin story, like where you grew up, what you were like as a kid.
00:05:04
Speaker
um Anything about your parents or stories that shaped who you are today? Long-winded question. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You you ah you asked and and I'll deliver. I'm long winded already. So a few things that come to mind, I'll kind of give sort of college and forward and then maybe sprinkle in a few other things with kids.
00:05:20
Speaker
But i think this will inform. So I went to school for engineering, but I don't do engineering at all now. um But i've very I've always been very interested in like building Legos and like like organizing the shopping cart, like sitting in it with my mom when I was a kid. I remember all these like systematic things. This has been a huge theme in my life.
00:05:37
Speaker
And so I don't know when it switched to, or not switched, but it it kind of ah morphed into systems plus people, but that's kind of where it ended up. And that's what I love doing with this this world of design thinking that i I learned more recently in my life. And I can talk about that too, but it's this meshing of systems and people to create great experiences for people.
00:05:57
Speaker
So um i don't know if there's anything you want to dig there. You're like, Hey, I thought you said you're to long-winded, and but yeah, what ah A little little digging. um Do you feel like your parents are like similar as far as like the organization and systems? and No, yeah no, no, not at all.
00:06:15
Speaker
I mean, no no shade on them. But I look back now, especially especially with who I am now, and conflict is too strong. But we have different approaches to things like family trips. It's like, i want to be I don't want to be overplanned, but I like to know what the plan is so we can pivot if we need.
00:06:31
Speaker
And My family in large part is like, well, let's just show up and we'll figure it out. And I'm like, yeah ah, but you know, I'd like to optimize a little bit, not over-optimize. I ah promise I don't want to over-optimize. I don't want to be super rigid and I definitely don't want to be jam-packed, but I want to know like, what are the big things we're doing? What are the things that's going to lead to the best experience?
00:06:48
Speaker
So there definitely is some difference. So I don't actually know where that came from besides just, um, I don't like loving Legos, for example, like the love, the ability to make things, but it's in like a structured way. It's not just like I was never into art, for example. So and two types of creativity. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, after my Japan trip, I actually regret not being like organized and like planning because we didn't plan it correctly. So we got there. We should have gone like straight to DisneySea, Disneyland. And then because we already had like Puroland, but because we didn't plan correctly, we couldn't go to all of them.
00:07:22
Speaker
Okay, so I'm going to take over this podcast for a second and I'm going to ask you. um So do you have did you do you have kids? you take kids? Yeah. do for um For spring break, two years from now, we have Japan earmarked because we have it butts up against Easter, so we have like 11 days. Like, let's do a bigger trip and we love Japan.
00:07:42
Speaker
And um we want to go to Disney Japan. So did you did you go or you didn't go to Japan? ended up not going. We went to Puroland, yeah. Okay. All right. We want to do something like that because it just feels like my, I have a eight year old and an almost five year old currently.
00:07:58
Speaker
And I think that'd just be so cool. Yes. i have eight and five year old too. Awesome. Yeah. So you get it. You get it. i'm I'm impressed. You did a big trip with them. We're like, Uh, it's kind of a pain to travel with kids right now. Let's keep it super simple, but we're trying to like expand. So yeah, my husband wouldn't let me bring the stroller. So it was extra tough.
00:08:17
Speaker
So I had to carry her a lot. Um, okay. So what were you like in like high school and what were your hobbies then?
Career Transition and World Travels
00:08:23
Speaker
So I was like the the nerdy guy in high school. um Here's a few here's a few um visual images your your audience can use and and you can use because you didn't know me back then.
00:08:34
Speaker
I had like a pencil behind my ear a lot for some reason. I was like my thing. um i was friends with like most people, like the kind of like the cool kids and the skater kids. Like I distinctly remember like I would like float around at lunch and like talk to different people, but I wasn't super close with most people. I had like a few really close friends.
00:08:51
Speaker
um But I was kind of friends with everybody and I always wanted just get along with everybody. And I don't know. ah I was like one of the nerdy smart kids too, but friends with most of the people I would say.
00:09:03
Speaker
so i don't know if that starts to give you a picture. I do remember, here's another thing. it was very awkward as many people are in in high school. Somehow I got on the the prom ah fashion show. oh No, not the court, the fashion show for some reason. And I like had does had a tux that like the local tux company like sponsored or whatever. So we had like other people like...
00:09:21
Speaker
I even remember why I was doing that now. Like looking back, i don't even know how I got involved in that. That seems like such not my thing. But that was one of the ah memories that sticks out to me. Oh, that's such a cool core memory. I have a lot of awkward memories of high school as well. What were you like in college and what were you and into?
00:09:38
Speaker
Yeah. So in college, um so I was the good kid in in high school. Like I didn't party, I didn't drink, I didn't do anything like that. ah No shade. I mean, that just wasn't my thing. I was like, the i was an Eagle Scout and like the good kid.
00:09:50
Speaker
In college, that switched a little bit. I wasn't the bad kid, but like we threw parties at my house all the time. um i went to University of Florida. was like the number one party school when I was there. when i'm not I'm not a sports guy, but we won a bunch of championships. It was like in the air and in the ether, which was really fun.
00:10:05
Speaker
um And so that was kind of part of it. That kind of like broke me out of my shell a little bit. And i kind of came into my own from like, I'll call it a confidence perspective. I started to understand that I have value.
00:10:15
Speaker
i mean, that sounds like I didn't think I had value before, but it's more like I understand who I'm starting to become as like an adult person. an adult, air heavy air quotes. I look back at college kids now, like I'm calling them kids. I'm like, I was definitely not an adult then, but figuring it out in a different way and kind of on my own.
00:10:32
Speaker
yeah And so, yeah, I don't know. um Definitely um kind of embracing that more outgoing side that wasn't so much about being showy, but just more like engaging with the ah the community around me more.
00:10:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's awesome. What was it like being like going all the way to Eagle Scout and like that experience? It was, um, it was good. um it was tough. I was like, I'm not going to be one of these guys who waits like right until their 18th birthday. going to get it done earlier. But that was me. I was like a month before my birthday, finishing it up. Cause finish it for your 18.
00:11:04
Speaker
Um, it was good. I remember one of my core memories there, and this has stuck with me is that my ceremony, I was thanking everybody. And I had like my soccer coach, who was also an Eagle scout in the audience. And, um,
00:11:15
Speaker
I don't know, like a bunch of my scout people and just some of my family and friends were there. And I thanked everybody except my parents. And somebody said, well what about your parents? I'm like, oh, obviously, yes, I felt stupid. But that connected with me later, actually, and this might be interesting, that um somebody on like their email signature had something that said,
00:11:33
Speaker
I forget the exact quote, but it was like, if if you don't even know I'm helping you, I've done my job or something like that. but like they were just like a constant, almost a given, which I don't want to take them for granted. yeah But it's like um they were, um it was almost so obvious that they were helpful that like I think I forgot about them. You know what i mean? ah So yeah anyway.
00:11:52
Speaker
I love that. I'm like the opposite of my kids. I'm like, you better appreciate me. Well, yes. Yes. yeah why That is me now. ah so Okay, let's get into like early job choices and early career path.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So I went to school for engineering. I think I mentioned that and, or if I didn't, I went to school for mechanical engineering at Florida and then I actually took a left turn into sales. So fun fact, my dad was a professor at university of Florida. He's about to retire theoretically soon, not hundred percent sure when, um, but he taught a sales class.
00:12:28
Speaker
And so that's partly why, but he, he knew some people or his, his, uh, class was part of the sales engineering minor, which is basically like a like a basically a few sales classes tacked on to like an engineering degree.
00:12:40
Speaker
um I took his class and he'd be telling stories about me and my my ah my brother and sister. And I'd be the guy in this like 300, 400 person auditorium saying, that's not what happened. and people like, who the hell is this guy?
00:12:53
Speaker
But so anyway, I went into sales out of school and that was kind of a left turn. quit my job in 2014, or actually 2015, after I got married.
00:13:09
Speaker
And my wife and I, we traveled for about a year, and happy to dig into that in a second. yeah And then came back to the same company. I was working for a big Fortune 200 company, but I came back in a different role. I didn't want to do sales forever. it was It was a great experience putting myself out there, really uncomfortable. I hate cold calling. I still don't love sales in my entrepreneurial role.
00:13:26
Speaker
um But I think that's that's pretty common. Not everybody, but it's pretty common. But I really enjoyed like getting back into the sort of familiar corporate culture in a different role um with ah basically a product lead, almost like an intrapreneur within my company.
00:13:41
Speaker
And that led me to the facilitation design thinking stuff I kind of mentioned a little while ago. ah But that's kind of my corporate journey up until my entrepreneurial side. Nice. How did you meet your wifey?
00:13:52
Speaker
So online, OKCupid, I think. i don't even think Tinder was around at the time. yeah ah Shout out to my father-in-law if he's listening. Word on the street was that he was telling people we met at a bar. So at the time, I guess like online wasn't really like as common or accepted. I'm like, that sounds worse to me, but OK.
00:14:11
Speaker
That may or may not be true. i never heard him say it myself, but that's what I heard. That is so funny. Yeah, Tinder came out right after we got with our Assyndipkin Arts. I think so. Me and my husband always say, oh, damn, we would slay on Tinder. Yes.
00:14:24
Speaker
missed it. Oh, man.
00:14:28
Speaker
um am I by probably a couple months or something. and Yes. Okay, tell me about this year-long trip. Yes. So um we did basically a year, Europe, Asia and South America. We technically overstayed our visa in Europe. We for some reason had no idea that you were only supposed to be there for three months.
00:14:46
Speaker
And when we landed on our second stop in Ireland, they said, ah you know, when are you leaving? And we said, whatever date. And he's like, you're only supposed to be here for three months. I'm like, oh, ah sir, I did not know that. I truly did not know that he goes, do you have your tickets out? And thankfully we did to Thailand.
00:15:01
Speaker
So, okay, don't get any trouble. but So I feel like that couldn't happen today. i mean, I feel like people be way more strict today but maybe not. who knows? um But it was it was great. We loved some highlights. We loved Switzerland. We happened to hit it right when the flowers were blooming up in the mountains. We stayed there for about a week. That was amazing.
00:15:18
Speaker
Japan, as we mentioned before we started recording, ah because you just got back, was our favorite overall. Just loved the food, loved the culture, loved the aesthetics of like what everything looks like, how old everything is. I mean, in America, it's like...
00:15:31
Speaker
You have a 300 year old building that's like ancient and everywhere else, especially places like Japan, it's like, oh, this is thousands of years old. It's just like really cool. um And then in South America, we did a horseback riding trip for like three days over New Year's Eve down in like Patagonia, which was amazing. So those are few of the highlights.
00:15:49
Speaker
How um whose idea was this trip? And then how did you fund yourselves throughout the year? Wedding pros, listen up. If you don't have a CRM that helps you organize and automate your entire business, you need to stop everything and get one.
00:16:05
Speaker
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00:16:15
Speaker
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00:16:27
Speaker
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00:16:39
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:17:01
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00:17:14
Speaker
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Intentional Living and Entrepreneurship
00:17:18
Speaker
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00:17:27
Speaker
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00:17:49
Speaker
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00:18:03
Speaker
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00:18:19
Speaker
back to the
00:18:22
Speaker
Yeah, ah my idea. So my wife was in like down by Girardelli Square with one of her friends, bachelorette parties or something. And I was doing what I what i often do, like some exercises or whatever, like a like not like workout exercises, but like um like a journaling exercise. And it kind of just came out. And ironically, interestingly, I went and found that note because I took a picture of it.
00:18:45
Speaker
And I found that note not that long ago. And the first line was, I want to work for myself. And I'd completely forgotten about that. so that ties with my journey now, which I'd forgotten for years that I even had that desire back then.
00:18:57
Speaker
But later in that, I said something around, around i want to um want to travel. um Like, what do you think or whatever? And so I had it waiting for when I picked her up from the city to bring her back to the apartment.
00:19:07
Speaker
And we basically decided on the trip home, let's do it and let's figure it out. How we funded it was we had been theoretically saving to buy a house in the Bay Area, which is incredibly incredibly expensive, which also would have been not not a great â like would have been fine.
00:19:21
Speaker
But like retrospect, way better way to spend our money and not even all of it that we'd saved up. So ah yeah, we decided to use that and travel. So it was great. Oh, that's so epic. Okay, one last question before Hot Topic. um Just tell me a little bit about what you do in a typical day in your life.
00:19:38
Speaker
Yeah, like these days today.
00:19:42
Speaker
Typical day. So I'm going to probably give the typical answer, which is I don't really have typical days, but um I'll maybe talk more broadly about the week. So because I think in terms of weeks, if that's all right, my just to give a few things that I hold near and dear to me. Health is really important, especially now that I'm looking at 40 and like I'm getting back aches and all this stuff.
00:20:01
Speaker
um I realized I need need to stay healthy. So i I dedicate at least three days a week in the morning, like right before here, after I drop the kids off, I go to the gym and work out. So that's like part of my weekly schedule. And then I have a few blocks on my calendar that are for the one thing. And so if you're familiar with the book, The One Thing, i actually know the co-author. I met him at a conference, Jay Papazan.
00:20:21
Speaker
He's awesome. um But the one thing is really great. Long story short, it's like, think about what your one thing is and whatever timeframe. So this would be the week that will get you closer to your goal. But the way he phrases it is, was the one thing that if done well would make everything else easier or obsolete?
00:20:36
Speaker
So I have a few blocks on my week specific to that, whatever it is for that given week. yeah And then the rest of my time is spent on calls like this, maybe recording podcasts, client calls, um and kind of a mix of whatever else is important to keep the business running yeah throughout the week.
00:20:50
Speaker
Oh, sorry. oh oh sorry I just started. Keep on going. No, that's okay. And I was going to fill out some some other pieces about actually me and what I do outside of work, which is kids. So usually um I go pick up the kids
Parenting Challenges and Business Focus
00:21:02
Speaker
or like wait until they're done with soccer practice. We come home, do the dinner thing. I try to incentivize them in any way I can to brush their teeth, which never works. and then we have like a...
00:21:12
Speaker
a bedtime routine, but it's just always trying to get them to do what I want them to do. You can understand this yeah totally is a very good learning lesson for me to have, um, uh, like mind, like water, if you will, like I can't, I need to control what I can control and you can't control other people. So stop trying.
00:21:28
Speaker
yeah In Japan, I show the girls a lot of Instagram reels about two-year-olds and their morning routine. And I'm like, why can't you guys brush your teeth? I'm yelling and these two-year-olds are making their breakfast. And I'm like, what?
00:21:46
Speaker
Yes. I'm like morning routine. Okay, that's pretty cool. I guess I lied. One more question about the the one thing, like maybe talk talk to the wedding pros and photographers, how, what would be an example of like their big goal? And then what would be like that one, one thing um in their week that they have to do?
00:22:04
Speaker
Yeah, so it really depends on like where you're at in your business, but I'll i'll use me as an example. um So I'm relatively new in my entrepreneurial journey and like many people, and this probably will speak to many of your people in your audience, it's leads. It's like, how do people even know who I am and what I do? yeah Like, I'm great at what I do.
00:22:22
Speaker
And the people who have worked with me love what I do and they talk about what I do and have testimonials. But like, if nobody else knows, I have nobody else to buy from me. So my one thing that would make everything else easier is a steady stream of leads.
00:22:33
Speaker
And then that filters. so That's like the the bigger picture, like for the year. This is the one thing that would make everything else easier. And maybe it depends on where you're at in your journey. But then you basically boil that down to this month and then this week to support that month.
00:22:45
Speaker
And so for a wedding photographer or pro, it probably is like the same kind of thing. Honestly, a lot of you probably need leads unless you're happy to get enough through referrals or through, you know, like wedding shows and things like that.
00:22:58
Speaker
So if it's not that maybe it's something else, but whatever that big thing that's like causing you probably pain, that is probably adjacent or similar to your one thing. Oh, I like that. I think it kind of makes the head more clear to think of it in like that bigger picture.
00:23:13
Speaker
Like it's instead of being like, like, do I have to blog? Do I have to blah, blah, blah, blah. Like what what do I have to do? So it just kind of sums it up into, okay what's going to get me there fastest?
00:23:24
Speaker
Yeah. Well, and and and really quick, what I love about this is they talk about doing things sequentially. And and I think it's pretty common. I don't think this will blow anybody's mind, but you can't multitask. We cannot multitask.
00:23:36
Speaker
And it's better to do things sequentially. And so that's kind of what this whole thing is built on is what is the most important thing right now? It doesn't mean there's other things that just have to be done. Like I still have to do client work, even though it's important for me to find leads. Cause if I don't do my client work really well, then like, I'm not going to have, like people are going to start talking about how bad my services and then they'll make everything harder too.
00:23:54
Speaker
So there's some nuance here, but it's really useful to think about what is like that one thing that I really need to do. And if I do that really well, then my week is a success. That's like also how I think about it. And if I get all these other things done, great. That's awesome.
00:24:06
Speaker
but it helps get focused on like one thing. And then you can always, you can kind of scale that depending on what your week looks like, but that's how I think about it.
Building Superfans through Experiences
00:24:14
Speaker
So good. Okay. What is your hot topic today, Jake? And why is this, why is it so near and dear to your heart?
00:24:20
Speaker
Yeah. So basically for me, I really just wanted to talk about providing awesome experiences that really help build like those super fans. So for me, it starts with like All right. So my company, i don't know if we mentioned this is called intention craft and I love like being intentional with our lives. That's how we took our trip. That's how I decided to quit and, and, uh, do my job or, uh, become an entrepreneur.
00:24:43
Speaker
And intention, I think kind of filters down through all different levels, kind of like the one thing that we were talking about. And so I like to start with any experience. What does that experience feel like to my clients? So this ties in and actually let me um talk briefly about design thinking. I don't think I mentioned about this. I love talking about design thinking because it measures all these things that I love.
00:25:02
Speaker
So for those who don't know, design thinking is kind of taking a like a capital D designer, someone who went to school for design and like does design like work like all day, ah taking their mindset and their toolkit and teaching non-capital D designers how to use it and how to use it in non-typical designery ways.
00:25:20
Speaker
And so the mindset is human-centered. It's kind of like the summary that I like to use, human-centric. Okay. And then the toolkit is, you know, sticky note exercises is kind of the quintessential toolkit, but it it can be anything that's kind of structured that takes you through a process, uh, not just like trying to do random things. Right.
00:25:36
Speaker
So, um, what I love about, uh, design thinking is it meshes the human side with the process side, but it starts with the human side for me always. And so for anyone providing a service, wedding pros, photographers, et cetera, what I would encourage all of you to think about is what do you want your service to feel like? And I boiled this down through a structured exercise called the identity.
00:25:57
Speaker
Or so for me, it's usually your workshop identity for you guys. It could be your service identity or whatever. And this is tied, and this might be very similar for for many of you listening as your brand identity. And it it manifests in three different words or adjectives.
00:26:11
Speaker
And so for me, it's fun, guided, and unreasonably unreasonable care, yeah which borrows from Unreasonable Hospitality, which is a great book that actually is a good recommendation for anybody in your audience as well.
00:26:24
Speaker
But that's a that's a side note. And so when I have these three words or phrases, that becomes a filter for everything else I do. When I'm designing an experience, I can say, is it fun, guided, and unreasoned and provide unreasonable care?
00:26:37
Speaker
Yes or no. And it doesn't have to necessarily be all of those. but And it's not a rule, but it's more of a guide. Yeah. So for example, if someone was taking um photography for ah you know a wedding shoot or an engagement shoot, let's call it, and you want to think about like, what is like my brand? What is my identity? How do I want my clients to feel about the service I'm providing? Maybe it's um fun.
00:27:00
Speaker
um comfortable, because it can be uncomfortable, like getting your photos taken and premium or something like that. Right. Then you can decide, OK, what would what would a premium um comfortable service looks like? Maybe I would be sending a video ahead of time, even though we've already done our consult to tell them specifically what to expect on this day based on the weather and what I'm thinking, just so they know I have everything dialed in or something like that. Right.
00:27:24
Speaker
And so anyway, I'm kind of throwing a lot out here, but identity is is basically boiled down to what does your service feel like? And then everything else flows from there. And that's the core of it for me. Oh, I love it. Yeah. Everything's like this top, top level down. So yeah i like that thinking.
00:27:42
Speaker
Okay. Let's get into it. um And as you know, like, yeah, we're talking to photographers and wedding pros. So How can they give their clients um after they pick these three words, like the experience that creates super fans?
00:27:56
Speaker
Yeah. So what I would do first for any engagement, and and there might be,
Understanding Client Hopes and Fears
00:28:01
Speaker
there's a few ways to answer your question, but the first thing that comes to my mind is one of my favorite exercises called hopes and fears.
00:28:07
Speaker
And so this is finding out from your clients what they actually need. So you can have the thing that you want your, like your vibe to be for lack of better word, your identity, but like, okay, great. Now you need to apply it to a specific couple most of the time for, for people out there listening here.
00:28:21
Speaker
And if you talk to them in your and original or your initial consult, for example, I would ask them some version of what are your hopes and what are your fears. So again, I'll just use photography. yeah If you're a photographer, you say, well, what do you what do you hope to use these photos for? What do you hope this shoot will be like? Or whatever the kind of framing that you want to give it. There's no like one way to do it.
00:28:41
Speaker
that will bring a lot of information. And then fears, like, what are you worried about? Are you nervous about anything? And there's ways to phrase it. You could just simply phrase it. What are your hopes about this, ah about working with me? And what are your fears about, know, getting your photo taken or something like that.
00:28:54
Speaker
But that will give you so much insight on one, how your clients talk. You can bake that back into your marketing. That's a benefit. And two, what this specific couple wants, you can actually tailor. And so you you have your three words, but you still kind of sway a little bit based on like what you're actually doing with customized to what their needs are.
00:29:11
Speaker
That's a great way to actually make it customized for them without doing like a ton of overhead. So that's my biggest recommendation for how can you actually make it a great experience is tailor it to them through hopes and fears.
00:29:22
Speaker
Oh yeah. I never actually heard it that way. Like it was always kind of like either what's your big vision or um what have you seen or that you liked and disliked. But I like the phrase like hopes and fears. It's kind of cute actually.
00:29:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. And it works. and And you know, what's your big vision is a great way to get hopes for example, but you still want to get the other side because even though often it's like, well, my hopes are the opposite of my fears in a lot of ways, you'll actually tease out nuances of things that they might've missed.
00:29:51
Speaker
Like, my My hope might be, well, I want to make sure my mother-in-law gets the photos that she wants. And the fear might be um she's going to be on my back if we don't get the right photos and she's disappointed forever. That's not for my mother-in-law specifically, just a hypothetical mother-in-law. But um it actually gives you more information than just like something that might be interpreted as simpler, but maybe there's even more there. So those two angles are really important.
00:30:14
Speaker
Yeah, it could be also like physical too. Like, oh, I don't like my right side or I think my arms are fat or yes my fiance hates taking pictures or you know something like that. So it's just kind of laying it on the table really fast.
00:30:30
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Cool. Keep it going. Okay, so then the next thing that you might consider is, again, pull out another tool from my design thinking toolkit.
Improving Client Experiences with Journey Mapping
00:30:41
Speaker
It's called a journey map. And so if I were working with you directly and you wanted to improve your experience, I would say, all right, well, let's actually talk about what your experience is. What does it look like to work with you?
00:30:52
Speaker
And a journey map can be a lot of things, but at its core, it's usually about five big steps in the process. So it probably would start, and you can, again, you can I'll use an analogy here that will land with most of you can open the aperture and and capture the whole thing. or You can narrow it down into one specific area, but let's kind of keep it broad.
00:31:10
Speaker
So how do they find you? That's maybe one step. And then how do they decide to work with you? Like what's your consult call or whatever you want to call it? And then what's the maybe the engagement shoot, the wedding shoot, and then delivering the photos at the end, something like that.
00:31:22
Speaker
yeah And then when you have each of these steps laid out, then you can start to add some other details. And anyone listening who's interested, you can research this and there's different like aspects to each of these steps you can find. But maybe it's um what are emotions are your clients probably feeling right now?
00:31:36
Speaker
And that helps you put yourself in their shoes so you can provide a better experience. wow. What needs to happen at this stage? what What are my deliverables at this stage? You know, whatever. And then you can start to see like, okay, where's the biggest problems that I've had? Or where's the biggest um like point that I want to improve that feels like there's friction or it's not quite dialed in the way I want? Or which piece of this isn't fitting those three words that I came up with before? yeah And then that's a great way just put it through a lens of, again, it doesn't have to dictate everything you do, but it helps helps ah make it a little bit more structured and pulls it out of your mind into something you can work with, which is why i love like documenting things on a paper.
00:32:10
Speaker
It goes back to Legos. Yes, exactly. It does. Actually, when I was talking about that, I had this epiphany like, oh, yeah, workshop design and like experience design is like Legos. So I thought that was cool. Anyway. Yeah. Okay.
00:32:23
Speaker
Actually, just because you said that, like, what is workshop design?
Workshop Design for Coaches
00:32:29
Speaker
Yeah. So in my world, most of people I work with are are like a coach, for example, who has a training program or or a accelerator program, like a 12 week program kind of thing. Yeah. And so for for me, a workshop is that, but it's basically anytime you're taking someone from point A to point B and you want to do it in an intentional way. Uh-huh. And so it could be a 90 minute. um I'll use the word webinar, but I don't actually mean webinar because I think most webinars don't do a good enough job actually helping you do work.
00:32:57
Speaker
So the next piece there is you're taking them on a journey through doing work. So some some exercises, here's a Google Doc or here's a online whiteboard or here's a whatever that we're actually going to work through part of your problem.
00:33:08
Speaker
So it could be a 90 minute session. It could be a 12 week program. It could be an in-person event where it's like ah like a retreat kind of thing. Those are all workshops. Does that answer your question? Yeah, it does. I was just thinking, oh, I wish I knew you long like a long time ago, three years ago. Yeah.
00:33:24
Speaker
Well, you know me now. if you If you want to help, I'm here. But yeah, I can always... ah There's always room for improvement too, which is... Actually, I'm goingnna i'm going to jump on this because this is relevant to everybody listening. I encourage all of my clients to think about anytime they're starting something new as an experiment and that you're going to start somewhere and you're going to end somewhere different, but start somewhere, don't overthink it.
00:33:44
Speaker
And then you can continue to iterate on what works and what doesn't work. And so even for you, Chris, I'm not pitching my services right now, but I'm just saying your service is probably awesome. And there's always things you can try different or expand.
00:33:57
Speaker
So, you know, there's always room to keep improving and changing and shifting and seeing what works better. So. That's one of the things I love about what I do is the work is never done. There's always something you can do um differently. So.
00:34:10
Speaker
Wedding pros. I have a new and exciting opportunity for you to make passive income with digital products and courses and affiliate marketing. The space is booming right now and you have to take a look.
00:34:23
Speaker
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00:34:33
Speaker
Get your weekends back and comment at me at Carissa Wu, the word info, and I'll send you a free sneak peek guide on how to make passive income. And if you're ready to start making money from home while being there for the moments that matter, I can't wait to connect.
00:34:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, me and Ed were talking about that, like, because... we so We met each other at Mesh and then um they closed down. So we were just talking about like how we evolved so much like that past two years of like where we were and then where we were like that then and
Experimentation in Business Decisions
00:35:09
Speaker
like what we kind of pivoted and like what we don't like to do. We really figured out what we don't like to do.
00:35:16
Speaker
he was like, I don't like to like be working on someone's stuff, you know, because it takes so much time. He's like, I want more like to be more like top level and like tell them what to do. And then I had my own epiphanies. So we're just like, but we had to work hard to get there. Yes.
00:35:32
Speaker
Well, and, and so, another, uh, I don't know if this explicitly design thinking, um, but it's commonly used, it's called a bias towards action. So it's like, you would never know the things you don't like to do unless you try doing those things first. yeah Right. So it's try things and experiment and, um,
00:35:49
Speaker
People get so nervous, like with workshops, people get so nervous about like, well, what if they don't say it this way, but it's like, what if people don't like me? Basically is often what if I mess up and my response to them, this has helped a lot of my clients, just a simple thing that was originally a throwaway. And now I purposefully include it is if you come with the intention of actually wanting to help them, they're going to know you're going to be building a relationship with them and a connection with them. And they're going to give you so much leeway that if you make a mistake, they're not going to care. and And in fact,
00:36:18
Speaker
It's good to make mistakes. Now you don't want to make them on purpose per se. Like you you want it to be true. You want to give yourself an opportunity to accidentally make a mistake. yeah But what that communicates is, hey, it's okay not to be perfect. And so for example, if you're taking photos of somebody, like I remember when I was taking photos, like I was a little nervous. I'm like, I don't am I doing this right? Like, I don't know, like, should smell her hair? She's like, smell her hair. I'm like, what are you talking about? This is weird.
00:36:41
Speaker
And I felt like a little bit uncomfortable, but he made it such like a welcoming place and I had a good connection. I trusted him and I just went and tried it. because it was like, well, I don't need to be perfect. And he's going to take a bunch of pictures and he's going to pull out good ones and he's going to do a good job.
00:36:54
Speaker
I felt like um because of the connection that I could just try it. And even if I'm, even if i as the client messed it up and I'm using heavy air quotes here, cause I can't really mess it up that, um that it was going to be okay. So anyway, if you're perfect, if you're like perfect, so to speak, it actually can be a ah negative because then people feel less permission to do that themselves.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree. I agree. like I think I was watching the Kristen Bell show, I think it's called like, no one wants this. And then like one of the sisters couldn't make it to like a big meeting, but um someone's like, oh, you need to just use a mirroring ah method where you say the last thing that they say over.
00:37:37
Speaker
yeah and the guy's like, I never told that story before. Like, I'm also connected. um but It works though, like that actually Yeah, a step back and just not being the know-it-all because I think that's what people get turned off by.
00:37:51
Speaker
Yes.
Unreasonable Hospitality in Client Interactions
00:37:52
Speaker
Yes. Okay. So say for instance, like people like do the engagement session, maybe they give like a little gift and they blog and the Instagram, real they make a reel and they text their client. and Hey, love working with you.
00:38:05
Speaker
Are there any other little things that you've seen that like work really well? Hmm. That's a great question. So I love the. um OK, so let me talk about unreasonable hospitality for a minute.
00:38:16
Speaker
So this is a book written by um Will Gadara, who ran ah Eleven Madison Park, which was like the number one restaurant, at least at the time. He's since moved on to do something else.
00:38:27
Speaker
um But his whole ethos, if you will, is about how do I provide this unreasonable level of hospitality? That's why his book is Unreasonable Hospitality. And it's like, what are those things? They don't even have to be expensive or even that difficult, but they're thoughtful.
00:38:41
Speaker
like so for So I don't know if anyone out there watches The Bear. This isn't a spoiler, but... yeah there's a part in the bear where they overhear a couple in one of the episodes talking about how they're in Chicago and they didn't get a deep dish pizza.
00:38:52
Speaker
And this actually, he kind of had a similar story to his actual book. I think he was um like a producer or a consultant on the bear also. And they went out and like, got like a local deep dish pizza and they made it kind of fancy or whatever, but it was like, it blew them away. It probably costs 10 bucks and some time, but it's like these thoughtful things that you can do. So,
00:39:14
Speaker
I don't have a one size fits all because kind of the point is it's not one size fits all, at least this kind of thinking. But think about if you're working with them and they have, i don't know, maybe they love wine or something that you get them a bottle. Like it kind of depends. Like if is this sustainable price wise and stuff too needs to be part of the equation.
00:39:31
Speaker
But if they just make an offhand comment or you learn something about them, make it customized to them in a way that's not super hard and time consuming for you unless you get to charge incredible rates, then maybe you can afford it. yeah But think about those like personal touches that you can actually give that really connects. So like if you're sending a thank you note, even do it handwritten and write something personal that they know it's not just, Hey, thanks. It was great to meet you. It's like, Hey, I really enjoyed the blah, blah, blah, where the B almost stung you on the face or whatever, yeah so something like that, that really connects you. So I think that, so to answer your question in a different way, actually,
00:40:03
Speaker
It's about being human and it's that connection. I refer Robert because like we actually saw him on our trip around the world because him and his his wife were at the same place we were. and we were just staying in touch.
00:40:15
Speaker
And we've had him out two other times since then because I have this personal connection. So it's not his pictures are great, but it's not like, oh, he has the best pictures in the world. It's no, Robert is awesome and he'll take care of you. yeah So that's how you that's how i think is the best way, especially in high ticket things, which most of the people who are listening, I would say generally high ticket photography is a high ticket product, wedding, anything you slap wedding on is a high ticket thing. I feel like these days, it's all relationships and referrals. So if you can make that connection, you'll get those referrals.
00:40:45
Speaker
Yeah, like something I do is um like during the cocktail or like the the wedding i like jot down like no it's about something special or even like the songs that kind of stuck out to me and then so i'll use that song for like the real or like even the story that's good it's kind of like oh she was paying attention or um i just like pick up on little things and then i something like my videographer did at my big day and he like really complimented like my dad's speech. And he like, every time I see him, he'll like compliment like their speeches. And I'm like, I was like, I feel so proud. I'm like, Oh my God, that's so nice.
00:41:23
Speaker
Like that. Yeah. awesome yeah So it just kind of goes into that human connection touch instead of just like later. Yes, exactly. Bye. Yes.
00:41:34
Speaker
I love that. Yeah. So, so I don't have a specific, um, ah like recommendation, but it is it is human. It's the relationship side. Like my business is built on relationships. It's not built on like Facebook ads. I mean, not that that kind of thing can't work. yeah and And so the the recommendation, again, I'll just just stick with photography because I know that better than the general wedding industry.
00:41:55
Speaker
It's not, yes, your photos need to be good and they need to deliver, but that's not actually what you're selling. which is this This is actually um good. um I almost forgot to mention this because I thought about this the other day as I was preparing for this.
The Value of Experience and Memories
00:42:06
Speaker
What people are buying from you, if you're a wedding photographer or even a wedding pro providing whatever services, they're not buying those things from you.
00:42:13
Speaker
They're buying the the memories that it's going to provide. They're buying the experience that it provides. My favorite analogy for this is if if anyone out there listening is like the home improvement, which I am because I want a home. I don't go to the store to buy a drill because I want that drill.
00:42:26
Speaker
I go to the store to buy that drill because I want the hole that that drill can give me. That's actually what I'm buying. I'm buying the hole that it will give me in the future. So they're they're buying photos from you, but they're not buying photos. They're buying memories of their big day.
00:42:38
Speaker
And if you can turn it to that, it changes how you approach the whole thing. So how can you make this a better memory for them um instead of just how do I provide great photos? Yeah, I'm getting a lot of like mindset shifts now for my sales calls.
00:42:50
Speaker
as I like those big picture things because it turns, it changes the whole conversation. Totally. Yes. We talk in the entrepreneurial world, we talk about this all the time. People aren't buying a workshop. They're buying the transformation that a workshop provides. So again, for any service provider, that's really what they're they're buying, even if they don't think of it that way.
00:43:08
Speaker
And if you can make that about that emotional side, it's a lot easier to buy emotionally than like, okay, well, how many, Chrissy gives me this many pictures with this kind of thing and this price.
00:43:19
Speaker
Instead, it's like, oh, Chris is going to give me the best ah experience for a photographer and like the memories that last lifetime. And she'll be able to capture this moment that we're only going to have once in a way that we can look back on and we'll be like crying in 10 years from now, we'll be looking at our wedding foot. Like, actually, i'm looking at my engagement shoot right now on my Google home. And it's like, oh, yeah, I remember that. That was so great. We were at the wine barrels and the but blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:43:43
Speaker
But it's about the experience and paying that picture of the future of the thing you're actually providing, which is not photos. It's the experience. It's the memories. Wow. Okay. I got to ponder on that one. Yeah.
00:43:54
Speaker
Like, how can I like, I mean, I can literally say that on the sales call and I think that'll be like kind of a cool mindset for the client. Yeah. And so the same, like, you know, just stop looking at like every single deliverable, even though I do give a ton of deliverables.
00:44:10
Speaker
um But think of the experience I have and like the memories and experiences I could give you that will last you a lifetime and your family. Yeah, so I'm going to wade into territory that's not really my expertise, but I i know a guy named John Meese. He's one of my one of my friends and mentors, and actually I'm in his community, and he does a group coaching program, but he's on the sales and marketing side.
00:44:35
Speaker
And so i'm going to plug his stuff really quick. It's called Serve to Sell. It's really about selling group programs, but it'll apply to anything. And he talks about his sales process and he doesn't talk. He recommends never bringing up any of the details themselves and let people ask you about those, because what you're selling is that emotion. there's you're so You want to keep them in the emotional side of things.
00:44:57
Speaker
So you're selling them the vision of what you're providing. So it kind of gets back to, you know, the memories that you're providing and things like that. So you want to help paint that picture. And then you can just simply ask, and I'm kind of hitting some of the high level points here.
00:45:10
Speaker
which you can ask, um um so are you interested or or um do you want to work with me or something like that? And then usually let's say, i do. um Okay, but so how much does it cost? And then you can answer that question. yeah And then they then you say, okay, so are you in?
00:45:25
Speaker
And say, oh yeah, I'm in. um Wait, scheduling, are you available this date or whatever? yeah and The alternative is usually, here's a bunch of information. yeah um here's here's like um Here's my whole package, here's all my stuff. And maybe you do need to give that at some point Maybe. We might debate that a little bit.
00:45:41
Speaker
But that provides a lot of room for objections where they don't there don't need to be any. yeah You really want to sell them on the vision. And obviously, you want to make sure that they understand what they're actually getting at some point.
00:45:52
Speaker
But you really want to get that yes based on what they actually care about. And usually, it's not all the things that you think is kind of his... ah recommendation and my experience proves that out too. I'm surprised how little things people ask before they give me thousands of dollars to do my service.
00:46:07
Speaker
it's I'm like, you didn't need to know this, this, this, or this. They're just like, I don't ask, I don't say that on the call, but in my head, I'm like, wow, they didn't ask me any of these things that I thought that they would want to know, or I think I would want to know.
00:46:18
Speaker
Because think they feel like they you understand them and that you're you're going to get them to where they need to be. And that's what they want. Yes. They trust you. And they're like, Chris has got my back. She's got me on this. We're good. She's going to take care of it.
00:46:28
Speaker
Her testimonials are great. I don't need to know the details really. or They're not even thinking about that. They just know that you're going to take care of it. Yeah. Okay. i got I'm going to listen to this podcast. Yeah. i'll send you um this is really good ah I'll send you a link. He was on Nathan Berry, which is the kit CEO of his podcast. That's probably the best one to give you a taste of what he has to offer.
00:46:48
Speaker
Okay. Can't believe time is up. That's so, so crazy. it felt like it went by so fast with a di great wisdom. Let's see. One more question. um Speak to the hearts of wedding pros listening and say that they're struggling to get their business off the ground.
Enjoyment in Business for Wedding Pros
00:47:07
Speaker
What is like, I know you gave me so many, so much um nuggets, gold nuggets, but what would you tell them to just make it happen for them?
00:47:15
Speaker
Here's so, my My favorite thing to recommend, and this won't necessarily turn the tide certain that interest immediately, but have fun. I think it's easy to get stressed out and to forget that.
00:47:27
Speaker
Why are we trying to do our own business in the first place? I mean, I quit my job. If you're not having fun or finding at least some ways to have fun, it's like, what are you even doing this for? um so And I think if you're able to have fun and...
00:47:40
Speaker
I know it can be stressful if you don't have the money coming in that you want, but if you can find ways to have fun, it turns it from like, I desperately need this client to, I would love to work with you. I think we're going to have a lot of fun together. We're going enjoy this. And it becomes more of a, just like a ah and more natural fit and a natural yes for people.
00:47:58
Speaker
People can smell if you're, if you're really worried about something. So if you can find any way, and I like to couch that in fun. So there you go Oh, this is so good, Jake. I love this conversation. I could even turn this whole episode into a course or whatever. Yeah, go for it.
00:48:13
Speaker
Definitely. But how can everyone um find you and then work with you? Yeah, thanks. So the best way is to go to workshopwhy.com. So W-H-Y.
00:48:26
Speaker
And on there, you can choose two paths. One is you can get my crash course where I have information on like the hopes and fears and kind of like a lot of it's philosophy. And there's some tactics in there um that starts with a seven-day course, but it gives you a bunch of information similar to what I shared.
00:48:39
Speaker
If you have any kind of workshop that you want to want my help figuring out the why of, that's why i call it workshopwhy.com. It's like, why am I delivering this workshop? Why am I, why do people care about this workshop?
00:48:51
Speaker
So especially if you're teaching people or anything like that, it's free. It's 45 minute session, one-on-one. We're going to do a mini workshop with me and we'll help you get really clear on your why and kind of your promise and things like that.
00:49:01
Speaker
So workshopwhywhy.com. Wow. You're so cool, Jake. Thank you for being here. I'm so excited to share this. I'm so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
00:49:16
Speaker
Thanks for joining me this week on Get a Heck Yes with Carissa Wu. Make sure to follow, subscribe, leave a review, or tell a friend about the show. Take a screenshot and post to IG. Tag me. Also, don't forget to download my free guide on how to become a lead generating machine.
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Speaker
See you next time, wedding pros.