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#21. Meet Aslam, Director of Coffee for The Community Coffee, and Sarah Lee, Secondary School Teacher and Coffee Blogger from Singapore 🇸🇬
148 Plays2 years ago
Today is the first time we are joined by two individuals that crossed paths and became friends through coffee.
Aslam is the Director of Coffee for The Community Coffee, he is also the founder of the Singapore Roaster Forum. He is a curious yet humble individual, always open to new ideas and concepts in coffee, in which he shares these ideas with those that he has taken under his wing.
Professionally, Sarah is a full-time History and English educator at a local secondary school. After hours, she enjoys travelling and is always on the hunt for a good cup of coffee. Sarah shares an Instagram account (@coffeetripsaroundtheworld) with her friend Audrey, it is an outlet for two coffee lovers to share their café finds and to tell their coffee tales during their travels.
In this episode, we discuss barista-customer interactions in a coffee shop to dig deeper into what consumers actually want from a specialty coffee experience, and how businesses can bridge the communication barrier to deliver better service to their customers.
We also get a glimpse into the Singaporean coffee community, and how coffee roasters operate in one of the smallest countries in the world with an extremely saturated market.
The Community Coffee
https://thecommunitycoffee.com/
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https://notabarista.org/
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Welcome to the I'm Not a Barista podcast. We're here to talk about all things coffee from industry careers, brewing tips, community support and more with some really incredible people who love coffee as much as you do. We hope their stories inspire you because humanity runs on coffee and together we can empower all the people behind every cup.
00:00:32
Speaker
Let's get
Singapore's Unique Aspects
00:00:33
Speaker
started. I know Singapore is famous for various things, right? It's a super clean country, green country, multicultural, and then you also ban chewing gum there, right? Oh, that's been almost half a century already, I think. It's a big stereotype. All right. So, we know so much about your country and it's nice, the food is delicious, and we also know the coffee coffee, right? Traditional coffee there. And today we want to talk about specialty coffee.
Eslan's Coffee Business Journey
00:01:01
Speaker
So Eslan, tell us about your business and how you started everything. Yeah. Well, so I run a small coffee company called The Community. Currently, we have three shops, including a cafe roastery. And we started in 2018.
00:01:25
Speaker
And since the start, we've been roasting our own coffees, but we've just been actually renting from another roastery cafe called Compound Coffee. And after three years, we decided, oh, I think we should.
00:01:43
Speaker
invest in our own machine. So we just have a little bit of better control over our rows. So yeah, I think basically we do mostly single origin coffees. We don't blend coffees. And our business model is mostly targeted at coffee experiences, sit-in, cafe style, rather than the supply chain.
00:02:14
Speaker
Okay, thank you. Thank you for the introduction.
Sarah's Coffee Blogging and Teaching
00:02:17
Speaker
So let's talk to another guest today, Sarah. Sarah, she's a coffee blogger. She was around visiting different coffee shops. So Sarah, tell us about yourself, how you started your coffee blogger career, and what do you do right now? Hi, I started my coffee journey.
00:02:36
Speaker
in probably 2017 so till now it's about 2022 so it's it has been about five years since I started going much into coffee culture yeah and especially coffee in general so last time before I did this I was actually drinking
00:02:58
Speaker
the Singapore coffee, okay, which is gopi, gopisi, or gopi, whatever. Yeah, so for my day-to-day job, I'm actually an educator. Yeah, teaching young kids, okay, maybe not young, but teenagers, adolescents, who are about 12 to 17. Yeah, so that's my day job. And I also bring maybe my interest to work. So I have all the like,
00:03:27
Speaker
necessary part of coffee equipment at work. Yeah. So that's how I enjoy my coffee
Eslan's Roasting Philosophy
00:03:35
Speaker
at work. Thank you. So today we're recording this podcast in your Aslan's roastery, right? Basement, nine seconds to the roasting machine. How many kilos is that one? Yeah, it's it.
00:03:48
Speaker
This is just a W6. So it's intentional. I mean, when we first decided to roast coffees, we decided that we did not want to do wholesale. We wanted to use the roastery mostly for ourselves. And that meant you had to be content with the scale that
00:04:15
Speaker
you could possibly grow to. And on top of that we also wanted to allow small businesses like us to start their roasting journey. So that's why we only decided to get a W6.
00:04:31
Speaker
Max earlier introduced me. You guys are very two important people in Singapore, and especially the coffee community. One is a famous roaster, has this community coffee, also has this coffee hop, right? So you are leasing your coffee machines so other people can go there and practice and roast their coffee, and they will have a famous coffee blocker there. So you are here today together. How did you guys meet
Connection through Coffee
00:04:57
Speaker
each other?
00:04:57
Speaker
I think, yeah, I think I met Sarah in 2018 when community was still in its infancy. And our first shop was actually in a kind of like a vintage mall in Orchard Road called Far East Plaza. So, you know, nobody goes to Far East Plaza anymore, to be honest. So it was kind of like, even for myself, it was quite a strange location to open a, you know, indie coffee bar.
00:05:27
Speaker
And I think a couple of weeks or maybe a month-ish and that's how I met Sarah who goes around to different coffee shops and judges us. No, I'm just kidding. I don't do judges.
00:05:44
Speaker
but yeah yes I knew Aslam probably when they first opened five years ago in that vintage coffee shop it was so cool because one of my friends actually told me that there is this new coffee shop opening in Faiz Plaza and I have to go and try it and then she told me that oh you will be able to recognize that coffee shop because it is you know the sideboard is neon pink yeah so
00:06:13
Speaker
That's why I managed to find it and then I enjoyed the coffee. I can't remember what was the first coffee I had. It was tough, but I guess it was probably either a Colombian or a Wash Ethiopian. Because at that juncture, I was very into drinking Colombian coffees.
00:06:36
Speaker
So that actually might go to kind of coffee in the past. Just that now with the evolution of their business, I also evolved to drinking more and more different types of coffee.
00:06:51
Speaker
So that's how I got to know Aslam. And when I was there, he was very friendly. He introduced me to the different coffee types that he has. I think there were three or two or two to three different coffees that he was serving. The interaction started
Customer Interaction and Experience
00:07:08
Speaker
from there. And then I was back again and again and again for I think for the last four years. Yeah. Yeah. Weekly affair. Yeah.
00:07:18
Speaker
That's amazing. You say Absalom was very friendly that day, right? When you enter a coffee shop. I remember yesterday. Every day. Every day. Every single day.
00:07:30
Speaker
All those days. Yesterday, I was at a three coffee shops, like local ones. They claimed myself as especially coffee. They have very good coffee beans roasted by famous world champions in Russia. But then the barista didn't care that, you know, I walk in or whatever, I say, hey, do you have pearl work? You know, what do you have? I would have this and this. And so what beans do you have? So I would have this. That's it.
00:07:54
Speaker
And then the conversation stopped completely. How about Aslan's, you know, like regular style, we go to coffee shop, go to his place, what he's normally mood like, how do you start with your conversation with the customers? Yeah, I think
00:08:12
Speaker
Over the years, I think I've been lucky to be part of the industry as it evolved. Back in the day, people did not have many options with regards to what coffees to have, whether it's origin or variety or process, whatever.
00:08:31
Speaker
So a lot of the time when we speak to customers, it usually starts off by actually just a simple, hi, how are you? How's your day? Are you having a good day? And then you kind of have a good kind of feel about the mood they're in or whether they're even open to having a chat with you. And that's usually how I start. And then
00:08:56
Speaker
I'll introduce them to our menu and find out whether they're in a mood to just have something comforting or something that they're used to. Or are they in a mood for something different? And I was like, oh, OK.
00:09:17
Speaker
That's pretty much, I find all this to be successful in kind of like guiding someone to find out what they want to drink. So question to Sarah, does Aslem's this way works? If your customer, are you happy? It does, it does, especially for
00:09:36
Speaker
Yeah, especially for new customers. So I have introduced their coffee shop to some of my friends. And then they said that, oh yeah, the way they introduce the coffee is very accessible, very easy to understand. So when they drink it, they get that sensing. Although in terms of tasting those, the more specific kinds, they probably can't taste it yet.
00:10:03
Speaker
At least they managed to get the very generalised terms like comforting, maybe juicy, very simple kind of lingo, maybe not even lingo but simple vocab to describe the copies. It has been successful so I guess that's why more and more people came to support them
Adapting to Market Changes
00:10:25
Speaker
in the end.
00:10:25
Speaker
That is a good thing. And I know that, especially the coffee community or the market is growing very fast there. Let's say, Sarah, if you remember the first coffee you got from Islam, that was Colombia, right? Colombian coffee. Do you still remember that coffee? It should be actually, actually quite true. It could be, yeah.
00:10:45
Speaker
How's the roasting style changed? Oh, roasting is always a work in progress. I think for a lot of roasters, and speaking from experience, we will take at least a year
00:11:01
Speaker
to kind of like find your voice, find your style and balance that with what you probably think what the market actually wants. So right now, and this has been again a work in progress for the last three years, we
00:11:22
Speaker
We've kind of found a sweet spot for ourselves and as well as the market that we want to serve. We don't differentiate between an espresso roast or a filter roast.
00:11:36
Speaker
So our rows are what is maybe commonly or popularly known as omni rows. So you can brew them in any way that you feel fit. And that's how we showcase them at our shops. You mentioned the word omni rows, right? Yeah.
00:11:55
Speaker
So it's kind of roasting style that fits all board methods? We roast to have what we feel the best tasting cup on the cupping table. And from there, you use that to, I would say, adjust the parameters and the variables of the brewing method that you're choosing to use. Okay. So, Sarah, do you like this Omi roast style? How do you handle that? Do you find this easy to use this kind of coffee beans?
00:12:25
Speaker
Yes, once maybe like two years ago, I actually tried to use the coffee on espresso, so it was quite unique. If I managed to achieve their style, because for them they
00:12:42
Speaker
they usually pull a longer shot. So for that longer shot, it means that you get the tasting notes a bit closer to the tasting notes than a usual espresso shot that you would have in maybe some other coffee shops.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, so that's my take on their coffee. But for me, I'm more of a filter or pour over brewer. So it still works. In fact, it works even better because for me, I already know how to do it. And then they even taught me how to brew their coffees, the style that they use, the number of pours for the different coffees. So that's why I am quite
00:13:29
Speaker
used to their coffee style. I would say that some baristas out there or some other coffee connoisseurs out there might not agree with this method, but probably it's just how open-minded they are to receive these different approaches to drinking coffee or brewing coffee in general.
Challenges in the Coffee Business
00:13:56
Speaker
Cool. So Aslan, how do your regular customer respond to this?
00:14:01
Speaker
It's quite interesting because I think for us we serve quite a large range of demographic. For example, in our coffee shop in Faiz Plaza, it's a lot more office people.
00:14:21
Speaker
So they do expect a coffee that's, you know, tastes like coffee. So I think that introduction is very important to set the expectations, right? By telling them that, oh, our coffees are roasted a little bit lighter and you got to taste it this way. It's not like a bitter, robust, intense kind of coffee. So I think as long as you set the expectations and it actually meets or even exceeds your expectations.
00:14:51
Speaker
I think it can only be positive from that point onwards. So whereas at the coffee bar at the roastery, it seems like they know that they're coming in for an experience, so they are a bit more open-minded and that has again worked to our benefit.
00:15:14
Speaker
So to have a good business, you have to be a good roaster, right? You also have to be a good marketer, as you say there. You have to tell what they expect. That's a good strategy. Yeah, yeah.
00:15:28
Speaker
Based on your experience, you know, since the first day you start roasting coffee into today, what has changed? And yeah, tell us about all this year's experience. What have you seen? Let's keep it short. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Let's condense like five years.
00:15:46
Speaker
I think I can remember one very specific year that was probably in like 2013, when Matt Perga of Australia, he went on the World Barista competition and he used the EK43 Marconic Grinder.
00:16:04
Speaker
on stage. And that was like a wild moment, right? And ever since then, I think the concept of espresso as well as what roasting can do or what you can achieve with lighter roast has changed. So for us, it is always about trying to achieve
00:16:26
Speaker
a balance in a cup of coffee. So the coffee should not be too acidic. It should have a good amount of sweetness as well as body and mouthfeel. And that has, like I said, you know, been a work in progress over the last few years, just trying to get better at roasting to achieve
00:16:46
Speaker
that kind of coffees that we want. Short enough, I think, hopefully. Yeah, that's very condensed. You're a business owner, a entrepreneur, a roaster. And then back to the original, your own personal stories. Since you started your business, what has been the most challenging thing you have faced as a business owner, let's say?
Evolving Coffee Culture
00:17:08
Speaker
I think that the most challenging thing has been,
00:17:17
Speaker
Okay. I think the most challenging thing has been thinking to what we believe in and what we enjoy drinking and sharing and waiting for the market to catch up, if I could say so.
00:17:35
Speaker
So Sarah, you think you're catching up or are you friends, coffee friends are catching up? My friends are catching up with me because they said that the coffees that they drink and community is very, how I say like,
00:17:56
Speaker
very unique and very different from what they had drank before so they are still trying to process the situation. For them also because many of them love the darker rose kind like the medium rose kind of espressos. They don't really like coffees that are
00:18:17
Speaker
I don't really know why because actually to me right if it's a bit more acidic balance out with that sweetness right I would feel that that coffee will be a bit more interesting for me because I wouldn't want to always drink my espresso
00:18:34
Speaker
in a very very chocolatey, nutty kind of view. So that is the really Melbourne style, which I always like to call it Melbourne style because when you go to Melbourne, you drink the coffees. In general, they serve this type of blends that are stronger and more chocolate nutty flavours compared to the sweet, acidic kind.
00:18:59
Speaker
So that's why for them, they are still trying to grapple with this idea and they are the same as us, we are all millenious. So we would like to explore a bit more if let's say we want to drink coffees. So for me, I usually would choose pour over coffees over espresso because I feel that
00:19:23
Speaker
Well, if you want to drink coffee, might as well go for the more caffeinated drink, right? Yeah. So that's my take on this entire situation. I'm pretty sure, uh, Aslan's coffee tastes good. And if I want to go there, I will visit your coffee shop for sure.
Notable Coffee Shops in Singapore
00:19:40
Speaker
And to other audience today, if they visit Singapore, Sarah, based on your experience, let's talk about other good coffee shops doing great job in this new wave of specialty coffee. What other brands can you mention here?
00:19:53
Speaker
I would say that one of the coffee shops that I really enjoyed the most in terms of customer relations would be Apartment Coffee.
00:20:03
Speaker
And then there's another coffee shop that's up and coming. Maybe they have opened for quite a while already, three months, three to four months. They are owned by two women. Epsil Coffee, it's pretty good. Really nice service and then they will talk to you and find out more about whether you like the coffee or not. This kind of customer service is pretty good.
00:20:29
Speaker
Yeah and of course a few other small shops like Shake Coffee, Pinhole, these are really coffee shops that brings the experience to a different level with their style of serving and maybe even the coffees that they take in. We are doing a good job
00:20:48
Speaker
It's just that most of the coffee shops are centered in the central region. It's not really accessible if let's say you are going like you are coming from some other areas like the north, the south and the west. So you really have to travel for that coffee if you are from those areas.
00:21:05
Speaker
Business owner Aslam knows how important it is to have a good location. You don't want to open your coffee shop somewhere without not so many people.
Evaluating Coffee Shops
00:21:14
Speaker
Alright, so let's talk about your local coffee community. Sarah, if you're looking for a new coffee shop, what are you looking for in a new coffee shop?
00:21:26
Speaker
So for me in a new coffee shop, I will look at a few things, maybe in terms of the espresso and whether they have any filter options. And the other thing that maybe the second thing that I look out for will be their service. How is it? Did they greet me when I come in? Or do they introduce me to their different types of coffee that they serve?
00:21:54
Speaker
Yeah, so these are some of the things that I would look out for. But of course, there are some shops that will not do such a thing because they're either very packed or they just don't do this very well. Yeah, that's not their coffee culture or that's not their culture.
00:22:11
Speaker
they start this business. So I would afford them because it depends on the style of the cafe. But generally, most of the coffee shops are very open. They will talk to you, they will share with you, especially if they are roasters or they bring in expensive coffees from overseas. So Aslan, how expensive are your coffee?
Pricing Strategies in Coffee
00:22:36
Speaker
Thank you. Very expensive. No, I think we price our coffees very fairly in my opinion. So it should not cost more than a plate of chicken rice. That's like the standard in Singapore. That's why you measure it. Yeah, you know, it's like the value.
00:23:01
Speaker
Yeah, and both our shops, we are really right beside very famous chicken rice shops. So it's always a standard of measure over there. But no, of course, I think we also have intentionally certain coffees that are a bit more expensive.
00:23:25
Speaker
And then it makes customers ask, oh, why is this more expensive? So it gives us the opportunity to explain to them that not all coffees are equal. And if we take the time,
00:23:38
Speaker
So it's just here, not a marketing strategy here? No, I don't think it's a sort of like a marketing strategy. I think you have to charge it much because it's just expensive coffees, you know? So we have to make back the money, right? I think right now in Singapore, the average price for like a flat white or cappuccino, it's like $5 Sing. So that's like maybe 350 USD.
00:24:07
Speaker
Thereabouts for like a single shot, five hours kept, you know, yeah.
Eslan's Daily Routine
00:24:12
Speaker
Um, and then pour overs are like, maybe that's the price for a chicken rice. Yeah. $5. Yeah. For a plate of chicken rice. Yeah. Yeah. For all of us, maybe, you know, anywhere from like $7 SGD. So that's like maybe five, five, five 50 USD for headroom. That's, that's expensive. So I think we're slightly okay.
00:24:34
Speaker
Two chicken rice? I mean, they're pour over price. Yeah, I guess. But pour overs, yeah, pour overs are typically a bit more expensive here because I think people can see that a bit more attention in the sense how the entire beverage is being prepped and you
00:24:53
Speaker
obviously are limited by the number of pour overs you can do in, you know, a single hour. So usually as pour overs are a little bit more expensive over here, veg brews are not, are not popular at all in Singapore for some reason. So Eslan, do you train yourself or you have a special burst of trainer? What is your daily life? You mean my, my daily life.
00:25:17
Speaker
If I'm not rostered on, yeah, exactly. This is my second week on a seven day work week. That's business, right? If I'm not rostered on, usually I'll stop by either of the three shops.
Qualities of a Good Barista
00:25:34
Speaker
Check in with the barista, taste some coffees. So we have a few things in our team. Each team member actually has a secondary role. So my role is to kind of like set the work for the quarter or for the month or for the week to make sure that everybody's able to complete what they need to do.
00:25:59
Speaker
And just, yeah, taste coffees, clean the rosary. I've been cleaning the rosary a lot. So that's been it. Sara, what makes a good barista do you think? You probably meet Aslem some new barista, right? And you know who's good, who's better, who's not that good. In your opinion, what is a good barista? Usually a good barista is someone who knows his coffee knowledge.
00:26:28
Speaker
He has all the, maybe he doesn't have all the knowledge in coffee but he at least have a decent basic knowledge of the different coffees that are being served or maybe in the shop in general. So they always, another thing is they can recommend different coffees to different people depending on the mood for the day. I think you don't really need the skill to be good.
00:26:53
Speaker
You just need to be able to convince people through your daily actions that you are a confident brewer and people will trust that that brew is good. If you're always showing that you're very unclear about what you're doing, especially in front of the customers, I tell you the customers will know that that may not be a good cup.
00:27:16
Speaker
Yeah, they don't know just based on this sensing. So that's why it is important as to how baristas portray themselves, especially when coffee shop in Singapore, they usually like to have an open concept where the interaction between the barista and probably the customers are very close by. So that's my take on it. I don't know whether am I being too...
00:27:44
Speaker
need picking, but I guess that is just what I am looking out for after being in the scene interacting with different baristas for probably the last five years. Interesting. A good barista need to be confident.
Training Baristas
00:28:02
Speaker
And okay, Aslan, how do you make sure your baristas are confident when they work?
00:28:08
Speaker
Is there any special training for that? Or you have to pick the right person to work there? Yeah, I think it's important to pick the right people to work. In our team, we don't segregate between service stuff or whatever. Everybody's a burster. Everybody can make coffee. Everybody goes,
00:28:32
Speaker
through the training. But as Sarah pointed out, there are some people who are a bit more confident. And we usually let the senior staff and the senior baristas actually to be the one engaging the customers or even just doing the cashiering and let the newer baristas or the younger baristas actually be the one making the coffee because they are the one who needs more practice. But of course, every cup that goes out is
00:29:02
Speaker
and sure that, okay, this is good enough. This tastes a little bit off. So the Cine Barista will always be the one kind of like doing the QC before each cup goes out. I mean, my Cine Baristas are usually very buzzy because they drink a lot of coffee. But yeah, I mean, that's just the way we do it over here.
00:29:20
Speaker
Thanks for sharing. Let's talk about baristas. And how many do you have so far in your team? Currently, including myself, there are five full timers. And then we have a small group of part timers who do two to three shifts a week, some even more. And I always remind part timers that
00:29:45
Speaker
you know, nine or sometimes, you know, you have other commitments, but in coffee, the more you do, the better you'll get at it. So if you want to be good at making coffee, then you have to put in more shifts. So, but yeah, like in total, across three shops, we have maybe a team of like nine to 10 baristas.
Career Paths for Baristas
00:30:05
Speaker
It's quite a small thing. How old are your baristas? They're university students that age, a little bit younger.
00:30:13
Speaker
All are mostly in the tertiary age, so anywhere from like 21 to about 25 for the part-timers, most of them.
00:30:25
Speaker
Okay, so how long Barista do stay as a Barista in the field? Like how many years do they want to work as a Barista? I mean, through that career, many Baristas they somehow update themselves to become a roaster or become a coffee shop owner, right? Yeah, I think, well, I've been a Barista since 2005, too long.
00:30:51
Speaker
Still a burster. I think usually the cycle, you know, at a particular shop, you know, the lifespan is maybe a year and a half to two years before they start to feel a little fidgety, a little bit restless and wondering what else lies behind, you know, just making coffee in service. So for me, the people that I work with for our full-timers, um,
00:31:19
Speaker
We usually agree on a secondary role that they can excel in. So for example, I have a barista who's also the graphic designer. She does all the visual merchandising, she does all the top reps, the tasting cards.
00:31:37
Speaker
Anything you see that's digital and as well as printed is all done by her. And then we have a barista roaster, we have a barista trainer, a barista baker. So all of the team members that work with me, I ensure that everybody has something that they are also interested in and they can have some autonomy and try to work on and improve on themselves.
Closing Remarks
00:32:01
Speaker
That's a lot of opportunities for younger baristas so they can quickly kick off their career. And maybe one day I can interview one of your baristas just to testify on everything you say is real. I'm just joking. I said it's true, right? Sarah's like, no, no, please don't. I am not a barista.
00:32:24
Speaker
We can give one or two bags of coffee from you to some local coffee lovers like Osaru's friend from Singapore. Yeah, we'd love to. I think it would be good something people can try your coffee. Yeah. Thank you. Anything else you want to add today? Thank you. No, I think on a slightly more serious note, I think
00:32:45
Speaker
you know, things are changing or evolving in the world. And I think you're a bit more closer to the unfortunate action than we are. But I think, yeah, I think coffee keeps people grounded. And like you said earlier at the start, you know, at least there's something for you to look forward to and just drinking good coffee. And hopefully that everyone, you know, stay safe amidst everything.
00:33:12
Speaker
Thank you. It means a lot. Thank you, guys. You're welcome. Thank you, Max. Thank you, Sarah. Thanks, Mickey. Have a good one. Stay safe. Have a great day. Stay safe.
00:33:21
Speaker
Thanks for tuning into this I'm Not A Barista episode. Subscribe to this podcast and follow us on Instagram at I Am Not A Barista for more empowering vibes and true coffee stories that connect you with coffee lovers around the world. You're a part of our global community where we celebrate baristas and their craft in everything that we do.