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S2 E7: Hitting the Brakes: Reclaiming Joy and Self-Worth After the Fertility Race
134 Plays5 days ago
In this episode, our host Stacey has a powerful conversation with comedian Sashi Perera, who shares her journey through four miscarriages and a taxing course of fertility treatments.
Sashi immediately addresses the societal pressure to be "sad all the time" when experiencing loss, noting that she rejects the equation that anything less than a successful birth equals failure. As a comedian, she has used her writing and performance as a vital outlet to take control of her narrative and process her grief through a lens of dark humour.
The first miscarriage was the hardest, as Sashi and her partner—a private person—had to figure out a balanced way to grieve. Sashi realized the silence and shame would crush her, making it necessary to share her story openly, an action her partner bravely supported.
Sashi details the relentless medical advice to "go again," despite her successful conception and repeated losses. A turning point came after her third miscarriage when the Red Cross told her she couldn't donate blood for six months to allow her body to recover. This was the first time a medical entity validated her need for rest.
After the fourth loss and recognizing that the hormone injections had severely affected her mental health and equilibrium, Sashi and her partner made a conscious, courageous decision to hit the brakes on the IVF process. This allowed her to prioritize her health and confront the challenging question: "How can we still find joy if this doesn't happen for us?"
Sashi emphasizes that deciding to stop is a conscious, personal choice. She advises looking at the total cost—financial, physical, relational, and mental—and making peace with the reality that life will still be okay. This decision-making process allows her to hold the steering wheel of her life again, protecting herself with emotional "cotton wool" (such as skipping baby showers) and giving herself protected space to grieve.
You can find Sashi on Instagram here: @sashbomb
EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.
- For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
- Access all our support
- Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
- Join Online Communities
- Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
- Join the Circle of support
- Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.
Pink Elephants thanks the Australian Government for their support in funding this podcast series under the Miscarriage Support grant.
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Transcript
Introduction to The Miscarriage Rebellion
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the miscarriage rebellion. I am Stacey June Lewis, lead of the Pink Elephant Support Network group counseling program, Grief and Grace. And along with Pink Elephant's co-founder and CEO, Sam Payne, through this podcast, we will share the stories of many Australians who have lost their babies to early pregnancy loss.
00:00:21
Speaker
With evidence and empathy, we unpack the shame, blame and stigma and lack of support that they may face. This is a loss that has been silenced for far too long and we deserve better.
00:00:32
Speaker
We are here to normalise the conversation and to make lasting change.
Sharing Personal Experiences
00:00:36
Speaker
Today I'm chatting with comedian Sashi Pereira who joins us to share her journey through fall miscarriages and a taxing course of fertility treatment.
00:00:45
Speaker
Sashi rejects the societal pressure to be sad all the time explaining that she has used her dark humor and performance as a vital outlet for her to take control of her own narrative in this time.
00:00:57
Speaker
We discussed the relentless medical advice to just go again and the pivotal moment after her fourth loss where Sashi and her partner made the courageous decision to hit the brakes on the IVF process and prioritize her health.
00:01:10
Speaker
This episode is about reclaiming the steering wheel of your life, making peace with an unknown future and finding the question, how can we still find joy if this doesn't happen for us? So I am here with Sashi and we are really ready to have this quite a big conversation. um Sashi, we discussed earlier this idea of being able to, um I suppose, dictate and have control over your narrative, your story, the way that you say it.
Navigating Grief and Support Systems
00:01:44
Speaker
When it comes to starting this conversation, is that something that has been, know, prevalent to you through this very big journey? Do you feel like there's been times where you've lost the ability to kind of share your view of it?
00:01:59
Speaker
I think I'm lucky because I'm a comedian, so i have some avenues where which I can use myself broadcast my side of the story.
00:02:10
Speaker
I think what I've kind of found is that in this particular area, you're expected to be sad all the time. And I think that is something that I've really struggled with because I've thought if the ultimate marker of success is that my partner and I have a child and anything other than that is a failure, then we must always be sad. I think that's the equation that's really just not sitting well with me.
00:02:39
Speaker
and one that I've really, really struggled with. So I've tried to write about our experience and what's been going on. And think I'm lucky because I have my channels where I can write the full extent of what we're going through.
00:02:54
Speaker
and I wonder what that's like for people who don't have that outlet, because it has really been a game changer for me to be able to take control of my narrative. It's such a really, it's an interesting place to start, right? Because as you say, in some ways,
00:03:09
Speaker
there is this opportunity for you to be able to not only take control of your narrative, but also share a narrative that is very rarely shared. But then it also is really difficult to think about the people in isolation, which we've spoken to many times on this show. And I, you know, in my work, see all the time around not being able to do that.
00:03:29
Speaker
Have there been times across this journey where you have felt like it hasn't been therapeutic or it hasn't been useful? Right at the beginning when we had our first miscarriage, I really didn't know how to deal with it. And my partner and I, we had to go through a journey to figure out what our grieving process is because he started off as ah very private person and I...
00:03:55
Speaker
have a need to talk about these things. And so we figured out that the balance was first we grieve on our own, but then I'm able to share it because, and the reason that we got to that place where I really needed to share it was I told him that I felt so much pressure and shame that the silence was going to crush me.
00:04:17
Speaker
And I think when we balanced out our two needs, that need to share it, one, luckily, because I think if he wasn't open to that, I really would have struggled. But I would say the mis the first miscarriage was probably the hardest one because we hadn't figured out our process yet of how we were going to navigate through it. And I'm really glad that we put supports in after the first one because we didn't know we were going to have four and who knows how many more.
00:04:43
Speaker
we were in
The IVF Journey and Its Challenges
00:04:44
Speaker
store for it. So yeah, it was a very, I think the first one was the hardest because we hadn't figured out how we were going to grieve separately and then together.
00:04:55
Speaker
it's such an interesting point. And I think that first loss, not to compare them because they, you know, it's all a very different experience of grief. um But I think it is a real reckoning of very core fundamental coping mechanisms, very survival type coping mechanisms that we are first dealt with, which we know from research, but as you've just explained, can be very different ah from person to person. So when you're navigating that in a relationship,
00:05:24
Speaker
It's complex and it sounds like you guys communicated quite effectively. i wanted to ask um if you could take us back to the beginning and give us a little bit of a snapshot around how we find ourselves talking today and potentially what your road to conception has looked like.
00:05:44
Speaker
Our road to conception has been an absolute nightmare with no end in sight. I shouldn't laugh, but it's just... I laugh well because I know the feeling like we've had ends, but I know that, you know, that kind of in the... I was about to say F, but in the... Yes.
00:06:06
Speaker
that's the only way I can really describe it. Yeah, sorry to interrupt. Yeah, no, I feel bad laughing again, you know, because this is such a serious topic. And I feel like for people who grieve in a very different way, it might be disrespectful, but I can only speak of my own losses and I can only speak of my own journey.
00:06:24
Speaker
And for me to not be able to treat it with humour would be disrespectful to my experience because I just, I have to ah have to laugh at parts of it because other parts of it have been so hard and so difficult.
00:06:37
Speaker
So for us, our journey has been, we started trying to conceive in January, 2021. We were pregnant February, 2021 and had a miscarriage very shortly after at our six week scan when there was no heartbeat.
00:06:52
Speaker
And, you know, the general consensus, once you start speaking to people about it is that's okay. You know, a lot of people have been through one, you won't have another one. Then we had another one.
00:07:03
Speaker
And it was, you know, don't worry, you won't have another one. And then we had another one. So that was three pregnancies and three losses in one year. which was incredibly difficult and ah really was put us through the ringer emotionally, physically.
00:07:19
Speaker
and then we were told the medical advice was, you know, try IVF. And from the start, I said, how will that be different? Because our problem is not getting pregnant, it's staying pregnant.
00:07:33
Speaker
But the advice was it will be different. So we went down that path. We did two IUIs, four IVF transfers. And then in February 2024, we were pregnant again.
00:07:48
Speaker
Very exciting. Expected it to be completely different and then miscarried in exactly the same way. And so that was in April 2024. I said, that's enough.
00:07:59
Speaker
It's been about... Three and a half years of listening to the doctors, experiencing these losses, i found IVF very difficult. i don't I know that a lot of people find it difficult.
00:08:10
Speaker
um But for me, the with the hormone injections, they really messed with my brain is what I would say. It wasn't just the physicality and ah just my moods.
00:08:21
Speaker
I... feel like I was in a cloud for for a very long time. A bad cloud, not a good cloud, thunder cloud. Yeah, and it's a really interesting side effect that's completely brushed under the table from personal, but also from what I see, you know, it is a very common um approach for people to say, some people get some mood swings, but nothing to be worried about. Like, it's a really um interesting, yeah, approach when we know that that's not the case.
00:08:50
Speaker
um So yeah, it's ah it's ah it's concerning at how um and how little attention that part of the experience is given, even if you don't experience to the lengths that could be looked upon as extreme, it's still a very big part of the process and a very big part of your own equilibrium, really. Yeah, and I think that's a really good way of explaining it. I was just off equilibrium for so long.
00:09:15
Speaker
And I found that the way that it's minimized, particularly for women and the effects that it has on your body, because while all this is going on, you're trying to be a good partner, a good employee, a good friend, a good sister, what whatever it is, normal life continues. Everyone around you is much further on, it feels like, on their pregnancy journey and having kids and you have to act like you're pregnant but not think about being pregnant and putting your body physically – you know, it was all just so –
00:09:46
Speaker
much and i was happy to do it. and But then when we miscarried in exactly the same way, I thought, I i don't care if time's running out. i was ah So when we started this process, I was 34. And when we decided, I said,
00:10:02
Speaker
that that's it. um I was 38. And, um you know, that ticking clock of, you know, you don't have time and the advice from the doctors was we haven't found any reason for why this is going wrong. So yes, take some time off, but come right back. We're just going to to get back on the IVF course. And I said,
00:10:21
Speaker
you know what, that's enough with the horse. I don't want to play anymore. And since then, it's really, we've been having conversations about exploring other avenues, whether we've taken and enough a break to try again.
Societal Expectations and Parenthood
00:10:34
Speaker
i really don't know where we are at. I just, for the last year and a bit, I've been concentrating on my own health. So nutrition, diet, balance, exercise, just feeling well after feeling horrible.
00:10:50
Speaker
for over three years. And I have to say, it's I feel at a much better place now. And I'm really glad that I just hit the brakes on all of it and had a partner who understood that.
00:11:01
Speaker
i I feel very grateful for that. And that's a weird thing to even say, oh, I feel grateful for that, being able to place myself first for a second, for one second. Don't you know you're here to carry a baby? That's your role.
00:11:16
Speaker
you want a baby? Shut up.
00:11:20
Speaker
strap yourself in because we're doing it my way. um Yeah, it is an interesting situation. But no, having some form of acknowledgement to that, I think he's still a part of the picture in that whilst they're completely not able to be compared, there might there must be something very uncomfortable about wanting and yearning a child and not really being able to have a say on how that timeline looks, that process looks.
00:11:46
Speaker
I think everybody... would agree that if you're doing this in a relationship, which isn't the case for everybody, that you would be hoping there's communication and open conversation. But I think, you know, from from what I would imagine would be a healthy place to be is that your partner is whoever's carrying wants to support the best result and the best option for the person carrying because that really does then contribute to um the the ability to conceive at all. If someone's feeling resistance, they're feeling resistance. So I think what you've just described over the last 12 months too, which is, you know, probably a little brazen for me to use the word, but it sounds like, you know, the way that you've described your body is moving more fertile, like actually just in terms of the nourishing and the, when you think of it in the analogy of planting a seed or the the kind of gardening analogy, which often
00:12:40
Speaker
can be brought into this because it is relevant regardless of whether we wanna be mindful of not being, like of simplifying or being insensitive to the fact that it sounds simple.
00:12:52
Speaker
It is a really interesting thing that in this conversation you've raised that because yeah, when it is complex and it is heartbreaking and there is a lot on the line, those simple parts of the picture can sometimes be avoided to be discussed.
00:13:06
Speaker
You know what I mean? Because there's this kind of really big pressure And this big picture that apparently IVF is often the only thing that is supposed to give us the outcome we want.
00:13:17
Speaker
Yeah. And I think over the last year, we've been forced to confront, okay, what if this doesn't happen? How can we still be happy and how can we still find joy if this doesn't happen for us? And I think confronting that question and thinking, okay, what else do we have in our life?
00:13:36
Speaker
Can our relationship survive that? What does that look like? That has been a really freeing journey because that means I don't have to keep putting my body through this. until we have a baby. It means that we will consider all the factors together.
00:13:52
Speaker
We might keep trying for a little bit longer and then say, you know what, that's enough. We're just not going to have a kid. And I think one of the hardest things about that has been sharing that with our network because I think there's a fallacy out there that everyone who wants a child has one, and that's just not the truth. And that's what you start learning.
00:14:12
Speaker
And what really helped me is that I started reaching out to women who are much older than me 10 years ahead. And ah ah whether it was by choice or by circumstance, they didn't have children. And I'm just really, really grateful that they gave me so much of their time.
00:14:28
Speaker
but speaking with them and having conversations about them, about how it's totally fine to want want something, make your peace with not getting it, which a lot of us in society have to do. There's heaps of us out there who don't have who don't have something that they really want and then find other avenues of joy. And for me, that was one of the most freeing things to learn that whatever happens, whatever avenue we go down, life is going to be okay. It felt like just taking the foot off the accelerator and just thinking, okay, this is going to be okay. Yeah.
00:15:04
Speaker
Interestingly though, the analogy I got as you said that is this beautiful ability to hold the steering wheel too. So if we're using that analogy of taking off the accelerator, but by also kind of had this visual of you holding your own wheel. Because I think what happens a lot in private practice when people are going through a point where they're continuing to move through IVF and it's not working, there comes a point in a lot of the sessions and a lot of the different clients I've worked with where I ask the question if they've consciously thought about choosing this, even though they say to me, I'm doing everything I can and I have to
00:15:39
Speaker
really kind of very softly and appropriately raise the question of whether there is still a conscious decision for these actions because we can move through this process really unconscious and really, well, I'm gonna keep going and I'm gonna keep going. And now we've lost the ability to ask ourselves at what cost.
00:15:58
Speaker
um And we've lost ourselves, you know, and it happens. It's very, very common. So I think, yeah, that analogy that you've said and so poignantly not only done, but communicated is this, yeah, ability to grab that steering wheel of your life.
00:16:14
Speaker
I think also, i love that we're rolling with the car analogies. This is really fun. But I think one of the huge issues that I found was that the cost, it's not just the financial cost. I think the cost, especially on the on the body, on the relationship, on the mind, it's just not counted because it's, oh, but this is the cost for a baby. do you not want a baby?
00:16:39
Speaker
And so it takes a lot in your mind to work through that to say, yes, I want a baby, but I also value myself. I really value my relationship. I really value my mental health. And this is this is getting to a place where it's actually, um it's going to all collapse if I keep chasing this thing.
00:16:59
Speaker
so I think that You have to look at the reality of the cost and what it's costing you and be honest about that and whether it's something that you want to proceed with. And deciding that's enough is a different point for every single person. no one has the right to tell you you to stop and no one has the right to tell you to keep going. You very much have to make that decision consciously yourself, I think.
00:17:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's so well put. And I think to add to your point, the cost is going to be different for you than it is for the next
The Personal Costs of Fertility Treatments
00:17:29
Speaker
person. i think that's the very, very difficult acceptance piece is that someone's cost might've been a blink of an eye and another is a life commitment of financial, emotional hardship, you know? And so we can sometimes really resist the acceptance of the reality of your cost or our cost, you know, and I think it's difficult as well when somebody wants to talk about your plans off the basis of what it costs them.
00:18:01
Speaker
So, you know, when people are talking to you about decisions you're making and their cost was, we have to use these and have it, it was kind of a more accessible, affordable in many ways, ah less taxing cost, then of course the advice and the conversation is going to be very different from a person that hasn't had this ginormous tax or expense.
00:18:24
Speaker
And I don't necessarily mean just financially, I mean on everything, everything in your life. So being really mindful of what that cost looks like and how It may never look like your sister or your best friend or, you know, the people at work.
00:18:38
Speaker
The cost, unfortunately, is very different for many of us. Yeah. And I think that it' it's a struggle to talk about it openly as well, because everyone has that unicorn person, you know, they, they really struggled, but then they got there in the end and, you know, just keep going. And i don't think people realize how many people don't talk about it. So you might have that success story, but that might be against a hundred stories where they didn't get what they wanted and then moved on with their lives and found other avenues of joy.
00:19:11
Speaker
and I don't think people are only, they realize that they're only hearing the success stories. Even with IVF, it's like, oh, we thought we were done, but then we got pregnant and it was fine. And then that's when you hear the story.
00:19:24
Speaker
So I just think that there are many stories of a different kind of success that are just not shared. Yeah. And going back to your point at the at the beginning, that success is seen if you have the baby.
00:19:39
Speaker
But, you know, we know the statistics of postpartum so stress, ah postpartum depression, you know, disassociation, PTSD, that come with this. You know, it isn't, yes, some people might also meet their baby, but that doesn't come with that, a very big cost as well.
00:19:56
Speaker
um So those elements are very much not discussed ah because you got the prize, you know, and yeah, I think a lot of people find it difficult to have that conversation, especially when people might not get that, you know, prize of the baby.
00:20:11
Speaker
um But it is a part of the conversation that we're having today because it is the reality. it doesn't all work out um the way, i guess, society will have us believe.
00:20:23
Speaker
it It doesn't. And I think it's also you know, very well known and publicized. Parenthood is difficult. And i've once you've gone through this journey and tried so hard to have a child, I think some people also, as you said, feel really guilty about even discussing how difficult it now is because they think about, oh my gosh, but look at what we went through to get this child. And it's All of those feelings are valid. It's very, very clear and well documented how hard parenthood is. And you're not negated from talking about that just because you got your miracle baby, you know.
00:20:55
Speaker
This is exactly what I'm experiencing now. I've got a one-year-old and, you know, three and a half years to get him and obviously building a business and the guilt, you know, that comes from my life choices because I have him.
00:21:07
Speaker
And he might not be with me all the time. It's just, it's, it is, yeah, all consuming. And I'm in the thick of it in this very moment. So it's, um it is a really, yeah, it is a really, um what's the word? It's not, it's sticky.
00:21:25
Speaker
It's really sticky. Yeah. It's really sticky. And but also, it really feels like ah I try to talk to as many friends as possible about this. um And I try to hold space for the ones who are pregnant, the ones who have kids. And i know that a lot of them feel guilty when they talk to me and they mention how difficult things are.
00:21:48
Speaker
And honestly, what's become very clear to me is that it doesn't matter what stage of your life or what situation you're in as a woman, you're just going to feel like you're failing. think the world is kind of set up that way.
00:22:01
Speaker
And I think once you click onto that, it makes everybody feel better.
Aligning Personal Values with Family Planning
00:22:05
Speaker
And we're all allowed to share. No one's out there thinking, I am slamming this. And once you realize that, it makes everything so much easier.
00:22:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it comes back to that conscious decision-making too, like that alignment, you know that check-in with yourself. Because if you continue to check in, like if, you know as I just shared,
00:22:26
Speaker
moving through decisions for my career, it feels right. it feels aligned for me. It feels aligned for us. And so all of the things that you just explained in terms of, no, it's never going to feel like you've got it girl. Fucking yeah yeah. You're doing it all. But if you come back to that kind of deep check-in with you, okay, this is right for me. And that comes back to these decisions of whether you stop IVF, whether you continue to choose to have breaks. This is the other thing that we haven't really touched on that I'd love to hear more about your take is that there is also this very fast moving process that the fertility industry, but also society has us moving in.
00:23:05
Speaker
I think that is somewhat contributed to the ticking clock, but I think it's also about this. When someone makes a decision to have kids, it must be now, you know, there's no time for people to pause even in between children, if you're lucky enough to experience that.
00:23:20
Speaker
You know, there's this whole um race to kind of have them out as quickly as possible if you are able to have them and if you're, you know, even with miscarriage, it's like, well, apparently if you just had a miscarriage, you try again, you're more fertile. Anything that moves you towards speeding the process up.
00:23:37
Speaker
How did you... kind of advocate for yourself, even if it was you and your partner, or even in your own conversations, your solo conversations with yourself, to have the courage in the face of all of that, to stop and pause, maybe not even to know that you were going to stop IVF, but just to give yourself a minute to decide.
00:23:57
Speaker
Honestly, i'd never think of it as courage. I feel like I get pushed to a place where I feel like it's something I can't not do. i understand that's a double negative, but it's the only way that I can describe it as because I just think there's so much guilt and that whole fast, fast, fast, go again, go again, and go again.
00:24:14
Speaker
And i think I just get pushed to a place where I say, okay, I can't do that. I'd really like to, but if I do the cost, I will cave. um So I think that's the feeling that I really, really listen to. And it's a voice that gets louder and louder.
00:24:30
Speaker
And especially after the third miscarriage, because, you know, the second one was never supposed to happen and the third one was never supposed to happen. And even after the third one, the advice was, you know, wait for your next period and then try again.
00:24:43
Speaker
And I actually went to the Red Cross to donate blood. two months after or something like that. And, you know, the questions that they ask you the mandatory questions they have to ask, one of the questions was, have you had a miscarriage? And when I said yes, they said, ah, you can't donate blood for six months because your body needs the chance to recover.
00:25:06
Speaker
And just something went off in my head when I thought, I'm seeing a private specialist. After the second miscarriage, we moved to a private doctor. And I thought, why is it the Red Cross That is the first place that's telling me to take a break, that it's okay to rest.
00:25:23
Speaker
They're not talking at me about geriatric pregnancies and loss of egg quality and things like that. They just said, you have been through a lot. You need six months for your body to recover. And I think...
00:25:34
Speaker
Ever since hearing that, i have really been checked into when is this okay to stop? And i think after the fourth miscarriage, because the miscarriage is not just one day in time, you know, it just, and the mental load, the physical load, all of that. I got to the point where I just didn't want to go to the bathroom because I was so sick of seeing blood. Like ah just, you're allowed to take a break.
00:25:58
Speaker
And I knew that it wasn't going to be the medical advice. that told me to take a break. So I had to create my own factors around that. So it was between me and my partner where we narrowed it down to can we keep doing this physically, emotionally, financially? And to be honest, financially and physically, we probably could have kept going. But after the fourth miscarriage, emotionally, ah just knew my mental health was in a really poor state.
Focusing on Emotional Well-being
00:26:25
Speaker
And I was really worried that pushing it any further would mean that I actually would find it really, really difficult to get back to a place of stability and just feeling well about myself and my body.
00:26:39
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's interesting all the things that you just described and then from your perspective you identify that as kind of coming to a almost a breaking point to paraphrase but you get to this this part of your road where you're pushed whereas as an observer or listening to you speak like that, to be able to stop before you fall to me is courage because the advocation of yourself and the ah and just even the sheer I guess, surrendering or trust or and maybe those are words you wouldn't use, but but just being able to um just stop is, I think, in some ways is a courageous act when everyone is telling you otherwise. And also it means you have to look at yourself. It means you have to look at the truth.
00:27:32
Speaker
And I think that in general and in life, that is quite a brave thing to do. i don't I think it might feel not like that's something you identify, but I observe that as a brave act.
00:27:45
Speaker
And I think I observe it as a brave act for anybody that stops and asks themselves, well, what do I need truthfully rather than what I want? Because I think we really can as women, whilst we might be not told, as you mentioned that we're winning all the time, we can endure a lot.
00:28:05
Speaker
So it can be sometimes to our detriment just how much we can move and not stop. and I'm not talking, may or may not be talking about personal experience, but I feel like, yeah, I think it can certainly, yeah um be harder than it sounds, you know, and I am, yeah, I really admire that part of your story. um On those pauses or in those pauses and that those that decision, how did you approach the grief or how did the grief approach you?
00:28:41
Speaker
I think in the pause, so April 2024, we made the decision not to go to kids parties. That was a really good decision just because generally at kids parties, everyone who has a kid is running after their kid.
00:29:00
Speaker
So often Charlie and I would find ourselves just talking to each other and we thought, well, we can do this at home and it's okay to not put ourselves in this position.
00:29:11
Speaker
ah Baby showers, I decided i wouldn't go to anymore. And the thing is, because I've been so open about it, my friends understand. And that has been a huge gift that they have all,
00:29:24
Speaker
been very kind, understanding, supportive and very, very gentle, you know. And in the time that I've been trying to get pregnant, I've had friends who've had two kids and they always message when they're pregnant. They say, you know, no this is difficult news for you. I just didn't want you to find out at in a group announcement. And it's all so kind, but it also sends me into a bit of tailspin. But now I know that those feelings will come and I'm prepared for them.
00:29:55
Speaker
i give myself the space to be sad, but then I'm always really happy because then it does move into a space where I think, okay, wow, there's going to be a new person in the world and that's really exciting. And So I do get there and that's a nice thing to know, but being able to kind of cotton wool myself from the initial feelings and be able to deal with that on my own or with my partner is really nice.
00:30:23
Speaker
And it it and doesn't have to be real life, you know, watching television shows where people announce that they're pregnant, where they go into the labor scene and You think, oh, wow, I grew up thinking this would be me and it might be a reality that I don't get.
00:30:38
Speaker
And you have to sit with that and confront that and think, how bad do you really, really want this? And yeah, so all of that is incredibly complex to navigate.
00:30:49
Speaker
And it's not easy. i would say on some days it's super easy. Some days it's super hard. And on the super hard days, I just make sure to be extra kind to myself and do things that make me really happy and then normally focus on what I can do because I don't have a kid and, don't know, spend some money, go shopping, go do something really nice.
00:31:11
Speaker
And so – when so i hear that you're giving yourself opportunity to be sad i think that's one of the things that i'm i'm picking up that there are um kind of in brackets but they are there are pockets where you protect that feeling and don't necessarily whilst you try and um help yourself in it you feel it so i'm i'm hearing that in terms of the actual losses in that time Did you kind of get to the fourth loss and then start to process?
00:31:44
Speaker
Like, because we've spoken about that go, go, go, particularly the three in one year would suggest that it was a lot at once, which sometimes does take us to a place of, um yeah, just kind of disassociating or staying very focused.
00:31:58
Speaker
Did you find that that came to find you or did you notice that you had the pocket of sadness or what was able to sit with the grief in it?
Understanding Grief
00:32:07
Speaker
I think when I was going through it, i you know, sounds so ridiculous to say, that but basically the miscarriage started and I was going straight into 14 shows in a row at the Melbourne Comedy Festival.
00:32:22
Speaker
And luckily, the content of that show was completely removed from what I was going through. on a daily basis, which meant that I could step on stage and for one hour I got to laugh in a room filled with people.
00:32:36
Speaker
And that was the complete antidote to what I was going through during the day. So it was very much, I don't think that would have been like that for everyone, probably different bit different people grieve in different ways.
00:32:48
Speaker
But for me, having that one hour that I really looked forward to, adrenaline hit, dopamine hit, get off stage, go home, have a big cry. That in the moment works for me because I think without it, I would have just kind of shut myself out in the house for two weeks or a month or whatever it was to really just grieve it.
00:33:09
Speaker
ah But it did just mean that I put off the grieving process properly. So I think I was disassociated, getting through it, having a great time on stage, great time at the shows, and then was very much just kind of in get through this period mode and then create the space to grieve later.
00:33:29
Speaker
I very much delayed it. We actually talk about this a lot in our bereavement program. I run a group therapy program for pink elephants and it's called the dual processing model of grief.
00:33:39
Speaker
So there's... There's restoration process, ah which is that keeping you know busy, moving through life, trying to human and be functioning. And then there's loss oriented.
00:33:53
Speaker
And I think for those that are listening, it might also be useful to you, Sashi, but it doesn't mean you're not grieving. I think that's one of these kind of myths that when you move through um a busy time or continue to show up for work or finish a project,
00:34:09
Speaker
it doesn't necessarily mean the grief stops. It's just a different form of dealing with it at that time. So um we talk a lot about this because I think it also then is helpful to um contribute this to relationships because it means sometimes you might be in more loss oriented, they might be in more rest restorative, off ah you know, oriented grief. And it doesn't necessarily mean one is grieving more than the other in our own process, but also in those around us. so I think, um yeah, it is an interesting point that is often missed because in society we're told that we have five stages and if you're not feeling any of those, then it must mean it's not there. Whereas we know with a lot of research on this particular experience that that's just not the case, that, you know,
00:34:55
Speaker
that yeah, that dual process is a very big part of how how women move through this. um And yeah, it's all evidence-based. It's not, this isn't just a thing that we've picked up to since convenienttheories.com for us.
00:35:08
Speaker
It is actually, yeah, it is tried and tested. So i think it is important, yeah, that we are all aware of that because it's um it can mean that sometimes we think we switch on and off, which then creates a resistance or creates a discomfort as well.
00:35:22
Speaker
which isn't always the case. um we And, you know, people can disassociate. Like there is also, that is a completely separate thing. Yeah, it's really interesting that you mentioned the duality. And I think what has surprised me as well is the longevity of it as well. Like I'm talking about a loss in April 2024. It's now September 2025. I started watching Sex and the City again and I've bashed through the seasons the episodes where, you Charlotte's desperate to get pregnant and Maranza is pregnant. And any time they have a conversation about it, which shows
00:35:59
Speaker
that they're really holding space for each other, I just start crying. I start weeping at the unfairness of the situation, but the acceptance that both of them are moving through. And it's just it just surprises me a lot.
Media and Societal Portrayals
00:36:12
Speaker
You know, it's a TV show. I already know what happens. These people are not real. And I am weeping. And I just give myself space to do that because I think, okay, somewhere locked away in my mind, this is still part of the grieving process and I'm still not done. And that is okay.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah, and I think it's an important part because it's if you do move into that restoration, sometimes the loss needs to be tended to. And they, you know, we really need to look at both of them as um exactly that being being tended to at different times. It's not always going to be possible for us to sit in loss oriented. So then if you ah find the moments, then your body is naturally processing But it is funny, I think, again, funny, but I think I feel like age with the use that term. It is funny when you look back and even see those themes, you know, the clothes they're wearing, is it like 90s, early noughties, all of the stuff that came out about how like out of touch they were, blah blah blah, blah, blah, all that crap now 20 years later that we're looking back at it with, and I say crap, I mean just kind of the
00:37:19
Speaker
zeitgeist conversation, some of it was relevant, I guess, but it's very hard to have a conversation about a show that was filmed before anyone knew half of the things that we're thinking about now. But I think off the back of that, what I'm trying to say is is that those themes are real.
00:37:35
Speaker
That friendship and the duality that you described is, i think, often very hard to articulate and represent. So I think when you see something like that as dated as it can be, it cuts because it's not it's not seen. Like we don't see representations of that very, as you so beautifully put it, moving through the unfairness and accepting it in each other. Like, you know, I feel like that's a challenge for most people to do. It's a, know, for me, it's a sign of true love.
00:38:09
Speaker
um But I feel like, yeah, it's just not, something that is articulated or shown in story ah commonly, if ever. So God, of course, it's like they're in front of you on a TV. Time to let it yeah.
00:38:26
Speaker
yeah And I think so much of this has just been, has been accepting the unfairness, you know, it's, it's not fair and that has to be okay.
00:38:37
Speaker
And i think having seen my my father ah during this whole nightmare, my father was diagnosed with stage four cancer, passed away within four months of his diagnosis, just after he retired and I've lost friends along the way who passed away and,
00:38:55
Speaker
you just see the unfairness that people have to go through and it just is. And you have to find a way to be okay with that and move through that. And i think it's it's just helping. This mindset is helping that where, for me, it's unfair.
00:39:15
Speaker
all right, next. Move through it. Yeah, and I think moving into this kind of wrap up of the conversation, i guess, asks for where you find yourself today and how you manage your days in terms of that coming back to your, I guess, consciousness around today.
00:39:38
Speaker
and do you find yourself almost kind of going into that narrative fairytale land for a few months and then you find yourself having to come back and put your hands on the steering wheel again? Or is that something that you work on daily to find And what I'm trying to say is find that advocate and consciousness in yourself to keep deciding what the next move is for you. Is that a daily thing or does that kind of come and find you, like you said um in previous examples on the show today, that it might you might be led there?
Alternative Family Planning Options
00:40:11
Speaker
Yeah. very much been you know if not a daily occurrence at least a weekly occurrence where we ah my partner and I we check in with each other because what we have also been doing over the last year is looking into other options so looking into adoption voluntary surrogacy commercial surrogacy and we've kind of met with lawyers and on each of those options and realized that is a different, completely different version of pushing stuff up a hill. I won't swear on your lovely podcast.
00:40:46
Speaker
But, ah decided very much that for us you know we've looked into each avenue and it all looks really difficult very time consuming very emotionally rinsing and we've gotten to a place where it's kind of those alternate avenues are not for us and so if it doesn't happen naturally and if we don't give IVF another go that's kind of it and I think confronting that sitting with that seeing how much that bothers us is still very much a thing that we're navigating through. We're still quite fresh with that. And I think it's very hard for us and our community that
00:41:32
Speaker
they don't realise how hard the other options are. like Adoption in Australia is incredibly difficult. in International adoption is incredibly difficult. Surrogacy, just with, i had a friend offer to be a surrogate in Perth and I'm based in Melbourne and the lawyers, the doctors, the counselling the approval from boards across states.
00:41:54
Speaker
I just thought, you know what? I want to enjoy my life. And all I need to do is tell myself and know from my partner that we gave it everything we had and then we're ready to shut the door. So i think, yeah, but that's very much going to be our journey for the next few years.
00:42:13
Speaker
I think knowing that we did everything that we were capable of doing And then very gently shutting the door and dealing with what comes after that.
00:42:24
Speaker
Yeah, and you've just opened up a whole new box of ah real um assumed knowledge around these extra avenues. You know, that when people say adoption, I remember first looking at adoption and being on that moment. And we all know that time where you start to Google that, you start to look into you're looking at countries and you know you're checking down you're getting deep right and you're like wow this is i remember um where i was actually on the couch and then seeing this box that said um
00:43:00
Speaker
parental age must be 42 or 45 years and under and my heart just coming out of my throat because my husband was older than that.
00:43:11
Speaker
You know, he's older than me. So just all of this kind of what people assume is the next step or what even I assumed could have been the next step, which ends up almost being this like ability to not avoid feelings, but kind of continue to hold off the conversations that you've raised today, which is where does this road end, you know, for me?
00:43:36
Speaker
um that another thing was taken out of our choice. You know, it wasn't even, it just was almost too much. And so i think it is really important that we add this, that if you have a friend or you have someone in your life going through this, there's so much education we give through the charity and on this podcast around conversations. But I think the biggest thing is this assumption of knowledge around these very stereotype ideas of not just conceiving a baby, but how it looks if you can't and what that looks like for people, because those options aren't always options.
00:44:17
Speaker
And in Australia, as we know, and as of you mentioned, it's basically untetherable. It's just not it not an option.
Embracing Life's Realities
00:44:24
Speaker
This kind of adoption story we're told. ah you know, what's that show where they have the triplets? Like there's all these stories in America. Yeah, yeah. that From friends. Yeah. yeah but These adoption stories, you know, it's just not, it's not the reality in our country.
00:44:41
Speaker
It's not the reality. And look, there's policy and legislation around for a very good reason. And if you want it bad enough, there is a way to make it happen. But you have to want it really, really, really badly. And you have to be prepared to throw lot of my money, a lot of time and a lot of emotions at something that has very great outcomes. And that was just another path that I could not walk down, to be honest. I turned to my partner and I said,
00:45:11
Speaker
if you really, really want to do this, I can. I'm in this with you. But both of us thought, you know what, I think we're going to be okay, just us. Yeah, I think it can sometimes be presented as the rosier end option, like this kind of idea of, oh, well, you know, if this doesn't work out, there's always this when actually it has its own intricate challenges and almost kind of um yeah or nothing is given. Like there is no kind of handed situation in those scenarios, even with that money, time and and legal strain, as you've as you've mentioned.
00:45:47
Speaker
And so we've spoken a little bit about, um or you have mentioned a bit about a fuller life or the life that you've thought about in terms of what that looks like for you. You've spoken to women that have walked these steps, whether that has been a choice or not ahead of you.
00:46:04
Speaker
When you think about life and when you and your partner have had these conversations, what does a conversation look like, like that? And what, what are the things that were brought up for you guys that either felt um hopeful or challenging?
00:46:23
Speaker
We had some really challenging conversations, honestly, where, you know, in the beginning, because there's so much focus on the women woman and, you know, it's your diet, it's your exercise, it's your age, it's your eggs, it's your uterus, it's your fiber, there's just so much.
00:46:40
Speaker
And I did sit with my partner and I said, you know, if you really, really want a child, I might not be able to give you that. And we need to talk that through. And if you know, I don't want you to resent me in 10 years time.
00:46:54
Speaker
And, you know, if you want to go down another path, I understand. Like those were really difficult conversations to have. you know, Having him say, no we're going to figure out what it is we can do meant the world to me.
00:47:11
Speaker
And so what we did instead was thought, okay, there's a lot we can't do because we don't have kids. What can we do? So the last year, we i was born in Sri Lanka. I've lived in Australia for 20 years. And this year, we went to Sri Lanka for four months and worked from there.
00:47:29
Speaker
And that was amazing. And we've just done so much travel. We've spent so much time with our family and our friends. And, you know, if everything works out for my stand-up comedy tour next year, we'll be on tour for a lot of next year.
00:47:44
Speaker
and I think we're just really focusing on okay, what can we do because we don't have kids? And i think reaching out to new communities, not ditching our old friends because they have kids. It's more, there's a lot of time. That's the reality of it, the time that we can't spend with our friends with kids.
00:48:02
Speaker
So reaching out to hiking groups and community groups of people who are child-free or childless. And I don't know, I don't understand the term childless. I understand child-free by choice or by circumstance.
00:48:17
Speaker
But just kind of celebrating what our life is as opposed to only focusing on grieving what our life isn't. I think those two things can happen in duality.
00:48:28
Speaker
it It doesn't have to be one or the other.
Finding Support and Connection
00:48:31
Speaker
Yeah, and it's coming back to that beginning conversation of the fact that you can feel sad and you can laugh and both of them are allowed and also for you have been medicine.
00:48:43
Speaker
Yeah. Very, very much medicine. i think if I didn't have my comedy, i don't know what I'd I would really struggle because comedy kind of exposed me to a whole wide age range of people between 18 and 65 living life in very, very different ways, not just the one way.
00:49:05
Speaker
So I think that helped a lot. Yeah. Yeah. This has been such a lovely conversation. and i so and I say that word because that's how I feel. And I think I'm sure you constantly have people really tiptoe around words and, you know, um just kind of constantly being really mindful. But I think it's safe to say that you are an adult and a big girl enough to be able to understand that when I say lovely, I mean the interaction between the two of us.
00:49:39
Speaker
yeah I also wanted to just acknowledge the path you're walking and have walked um and really, really, really am thankful for you talking about today.
00:49:52
Speaker
Thank you for creating this space. It's honestly really important and it feels, yeah, I would agree, just lovely to be able to chat about it just very frankly and directly. Today's episode may have brought up some feelings that you need some extra support around, and that's totally okay.
00:50:08
Speaker
Head to pinkhelephants.org.au to access our circle of support, your space where you can be met with empathy and support through all of your experiences of early pregnancy loss.
00:50:19
Speaker
We're here for you. You're not alone.