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EPISODE 8: Navigating Recurrent Pregnancy Loss: Finding Your Circle of Support with Danielle Mortlock
591 Plays1 year ago
On today’s episode we hear from our very own Pink Elephants Peer Support Coordinator, Danielle. An amazingly strong woman who has gone through recurrent early pregnancy losses. Feeling isolated and alone, Danielle found incredible comfort and support when she eventually connected with Pink Elephants. Danielle’s story is that of loss and pain but also of hope and comfort. We are so grateful Danielle found her way to Pink Elephants and received the validation, empathy and understanding she deserved.
EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.
- For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
- Access all our support
- Connect with Peer Support
- Join Online Communities
- Emotional Support Resources
- Follow @pinkelephantssupport
STACEY JUNE LEWIS
If you’d like to reach out to Stacey for counselling she is currently taking new clients. Find out more via her Website or Instagram.
You can also follow her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.
JOIN THE MISCARRIAGE REBELLION
Pink Elephants believe everyone deserves support following the loss of their baby.
We have been providing support to many ten's of thousands of people for nearly 8 years, raising funds through generous donors. We now need ongoing Government support to empower our circle of support.
We are calling on the Government to provide us with $1.6million over 4 years to help bridge the gap. Sign our petition.
Early pregnancy loss is not just a private grief, but a national issue that requires collective empathy, awareness, and action. By recognising and addressing this, we can make meaningful change in the lives of 100,000+ women who experience early pregnancy loss every year.
SUBSCRIBE
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More information on Zoe Clark-Coates https://www.zoeadelle.co.uk/
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Transcript
Introduction & Podcast Goals
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Miscarriage Rebellion. I'm Sam Payne, CEO and co-founder of the Pink Elephant Support Network. And I'm Stacey June Lewis, counsellor, psychotherapist and broadcaster. This podcast is where we share stories of many Australians who have lost their babies to early pregnancy loss.
00:00:21
Speaker
With evidence and empathy, we unpack the shame, blame, and stigma and the lack of support that many face. This is a loss that has been silenced for too long. We deserve better. We are here to normalise the conversation. And we're here to make lasting change.
Meet Danielle Mortlock
00:00:37
Speaker
On today's episode of The Miscarriage Rebellion, we welcome our very own Danielle Mortlock, who is Pink Elephant's Pierce Apart coordinator.
00:00:46
Speaker
She has had an incredible journey, which has left her with so much empathy and understanding for our community, which is why she's a brilliant advocate and an incredible peer support coordinator. Danielle absolutely gives everything to her role at Pink Elephants. We love having her as part of the team. I'm really grateful that you get to listen to Danielle's experience today. Danielle has had many experiences of different types of early pregnancy loss.
00:01:13
Speaker
She really has had a huge journey to have her two beautiful children. And I can't thank her enough for giving us the time to share all of her experience, all of her wisdom in today's podcast. And I really think it's a great one that you'll enjoy listening to.
00:01:29
Speaker
and hopefully take a lot away from. A lot about the need for validation, empathy and support which really is at the heart of all of our work at Pink elephants. So thank you for listening and let's get started with Danielle's episode all around peer support and the difference it can make to those of us who experience early pregnancy loss.
Experiencing First Miscarriage
00:01:47
Speaker
So we'll dive straight in and can you tell us about your personal experience of your losses and your journey that you've been on?
00:01:55
Speaker
I guess I'll start from the very start. About November 2014, my husband and I found out we were having a baby. It was my first pregnancy. We decided a few months earlier that we wanted to start the process of having a family.
00:02:18
Speaker
It never occurred to me that I wouldn't have this baby in August 2015. So we told family, we told friends, we told co-workers. It was almost that the excitement couldn't be contained. I made plans straight away.
00:02:42
Speaker
And in January 2015, my husband and I went for the eight week dating scan. So excited to see by one screen for the first time.
00:02:54
Speaker
The mood during that scan shifted quite quickly. I remember the
Lack of Support from Healthcare
00:03:01
Speaker
sonographer saying, who told you to come in and have this scan? I started to feel a bit embarrassed. I said, the GP suggested we have the dating scan.
00:03:14
Speaker
She didn't say very much more and then she ended up doing an internal ultrasound. When she removed the probe, I noticed that it had blood on it. She told us that she wasn't able to give us any information and sent us out to wait for the hard copy of the scans. I started to talk to my husband. I said, I think there's something wrong. When she said goodbye, I said, well, please, can you tell me if you could see a heartbeat?
00:03:44
Speaker
She said she couldn't find one. And so we walked out of that office. And when we were out the doors, I was holding my scans, and I just broke down. And my husband and I stood outside that building.
00:04:02
Speaker
Um, and it was just such a shock. Um, I'd had a, a mis- miscarriage. I didn't realize that, um, Bob had stopped growing and, you know, it just, it took, I think it took a while for me to really believe that I wasn't going to have this baby. Um, it just, um, I wasn't given any resources. I wasn't.
00:04:29
Speaker
I didn't receive any sorry for your loss. I was told by the GP that it was common, that I would miscarry naturally and that I could try again.
Second Miscarriage & Information Gap
00:04:41
Speaker
We then, after we picked ourselves up off the floor, I fell pregnant again in June, 2015. And within a couple of days of seeing that positive pregnancy test, I started bleeding. I hadn't told anybody but my husband about that positive pregnancy test. And I started bleeding at work and came home and told him, I think I was losing this one. So that was a chemical pregnancy.
00:05:11
Speaker
Um, during both those losses, I really, I wasn't given much information in terms of what to expect when miscarrying either physically or emotionally. Um, I remember calling GP access, uh, with the first miscarriage and saying, do I need to go to hospital? You know, this is happening. I don't know how, you know, what's normal, um, is the pain wall. Um, so I found that really difficult and I turned to Google for answers.
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah, like so many women do, right? Yeah. I had read that investigations weren't typically carried out until after three consecutive miscarriages, but I didn't think that mentally I could cope with going through another miscarriage and not having changed something or not trying to find an answer.
Third Pregnancy & Rory's Birth
00:06:06
Speaker
I went to my GP and asked her for a referral to an obstetrician that I had heard about from a close friend. The obstetrician that I met with, she was the first person in the medical industry to say, I'm so sorry for what you've been through. She immediately validated what I had been through.
00:06:30
Speaker
She ran some tests and from that she put me on baby aspirin for my third pregnancy. So I fell pregnant for the third time and my beautiful boy Rory was born in October 2016. So that was more than two years after Mike and I had decided to start trying. That pregnancy, especially in the first 12 weeks,
00:06:58
Speaker
the anxiety was really high level. Every time I went to the bathroom, I would hold my breath. I took test after test just to try and see that positive line on the test. And at the 12 weeks again, I didn't allow myself to feel any excitement until I saw him there. At eight weeks,
00:07:27
Speaker
during my pregnancy with Rory, I'd started to bleed and Mike was away and I rang him and I said, you know, it's happening again. And through my obstetrician, I went to hospital and got a scan and it turned out to be a subchoronic hematoma and I got to see his heartbeat. So while that relieved a lot of the anxiety,
00:07:54
Speaker
You know, it was just, it was throughout the pregnancy, it was just this feeling of hope and happiness. But there was always that niggling anxiety. Is this really going to happen?
Anxiety with Rory's Pregnancy
00:08:11
Speaker
Then when Rory was 12 months old, we decided that we would try again. And I thought we had the answer. I thought maybe Aspirin was what I needed.
00:08:23
Speaker
Unfortunately, I had four more losses after Rory, including two more missed miscarriages.
Coping with Subsequent Miscarriages
00:08:34
Speaker
My fifth pregnancy ended in a missed miscarriage that wasn't realized until the 12-week scan. And we had seen the heartbeat at eight weeks.
00:08:49
Speaker
Um, I had pregnancy symptoms and I guess I had a bit more of a false sense of security. I was also on progesterone as well. So I think I felt that I had these safeguards. And the only other time I'd seen a heartbeat was when we had Rory. Um, my husband was away. So my parents came to the scan with me and with Rory and
00:09:19
Speaker
We had nicknamed this bub Jelly Bean. I, the sonographer put the probe on my belly and the grainy picture popped up on a TV screen in the corner on a large TV screen. And my dad said, you know, there's Jelly Bean. And I looked and I could see, you know, I could see, you know, baby's head, baby's body, legs, and one arm.
00:09:49
Speaker
I stared at it for some time and I couldn't see that flickering heartbeat. My mum was sitting next to me with Rory and I said to her, mum, can you see the heartbeat? She just shook her head and put her hand on my arm. I said to the sonographer, is there a heartbeat? Is there a heartbeat there? She said, I'm just taking measurements.
00:10:14
Speaker
I started to cry and I thought, you know, there was a part of me that thought, any minute now, she's going to put a hand on my arm and say, yeah, I just needed to take those measurements. It's all fine. Here's the heartbeat. And then I looked at her hand and it was shaking and I knew then that
00:10:35
Speaker
that I wasn't going to have this baby. She put the probe down and put a hand on mine and said, I'm really sorry, but there's no heartbeat. I feel like every miscarriage that I went through
00:10:57
Speaker
I dealt with it in different ways and they were all different experiences, but I feel like that one, it broke me in a way that the previous hadn't because I had seen that heartbeat and I felt this false sense of security. That was a really difficult time.
00:11:23
Speaker
Um, I didn't feel like I could, that I wanted to go through this miscarriage as I had with the others, um, and go through expectant management. Uh, so I had a DNC.
00:11:39
Speaker
Um, it took a while for me to, to recover physically and emotionally from that loss. Um, and I think not, not just that loss, but every loss then was just the grief from my other losses, which I felt would come up. Um, I then eventually we decided to try again and
00:12:06
Speaker
You know, this time I was, uh, my obstetrician, you know, we were trying everything. I was on klexane injections. I was on prednisone. I was on progesterone and I felt pregnant again. And, you know, by this time I had been pregnant six times. Um, and I just, it was at the point where I would say to Mike, I have a positive test, but we just didn't allow ourselves.
00:12:36
Speaker
any sort of excitement. Unfortunately that also ended in loss and following that one I had another chemical pregnancy in August 2019. At this point I had been pregnant seven times and had six losses and
00:13:07
Speaker
I started to wonder how much I would put myself through.
Finding Support in Pink Elephant
00:13:15
Speaker
I recognized that I wasn't the same person that I had been previously. Excitement over falling pregnant just was close to non-existent.
00:13:31
Speaker
And it had changed my marriage. I felt like even though I tried to hide my grief from Rory, I felt that it was having an impact on him.
00:13:47
Speaker
starting to consider when enough was enough, when I was going to, to say, I can't do this anymore. Um, I was so grateful to have Rory. I would look at him and be amazed that he was here. Um, and it was at that point that, um, I found out about the Pink Elephant support network. Um,
00:14:18
Speaker
So it was my mum actually that said to me one day, you know, have you heard of this organization? She'd found an article in the newspaper and the moment that I looked at the website, I just felt almost like a weight was lifted.
Welcoming Sophia
00:14:37
Speaker
Like everything that I read, I would not alone to, I, you know, was like a lot of the things that I was reading was like, yes, that's exactly how I've been feeling. Um,
00:14:49
Speaker
I reached out and booked a phone appointment with a peer support companion, Rochelle, and I was very nervous before her call. But from the moment we started talking, it was this instant connection. She really listened to what I had to say. We talked. It was really amazing and it just
00:15:16
Speaker
It was so amazing to speak to somebody who really got how I was feeling. And shortly after that phone call, I found out that I was pregnant with, was my eighth pregnancy. And I had a little girl, Sophia, who just turned three. So that was, that's been my journey.
00:15:47
Speaker
Thank you for sharing all of that with us. Like so grateful. So all of that sharing can be. I want to acknowledge a few things. I want to acknowledge all of your eight pregnancies. Um, and I want to acknowledge, you know, the different forms of grief that I heard in that chair, the grief of the pregnancy that you, I'm sure would have imagined before you even knew this road existed.
00:16:15
Speaker
the grief of all of those babies you didn't meet. And yeah, those important shares like the grief of your transformation of your marriage and I guess also the grief of how you thought motherhood would be with Rory, you know, there's so many elements of your picture.
00:16:33
Speaker
that really are important to acknowledge as well as the losses of your babies because there's a grief and a loss in so many other elements of your being, your life. And I just wanted to really deeply acknowledge your experience in that and also in ways that maybe wasn't acknowledged at times that we heard through your story as well. Thank you. So thank you.
Power of Peer Support
00:17:00
Speaker
Thank you.
00:17:02
Speaker
So, hearing about the Pink Elephant support network and then having that conversation with Rachelle, I mean, I too was a person that found the Pink Elephant support through Sam. She contacted me and there's almost like this kind of survival mechanism you go in on doing it on your own. Like you might have people around you that are trying their bloody best. Sounds like you had a pretty amazing mom and, you know, particular people.
00:17:29
Speaker
There's something that changes in the air when you start to talk to somebody that has lived this, that has walked in these shoes. So I wanted you to break down for me how that peer support maybe even specifically helped you find ways to cope. And if cope is the word that you resonate with, I suppose, or helped you in any way that you would identify.
00:17:57
Speaker
So it wasn't until 2019 after the sixth miscarriage that I found Pink Elephant. But speaking to Richelle, as you mentioned, I did have some really wonderful support around me. And I find this with a lot of the women that are part of our online communities that we talk to on live chat and phone calls.
00:18:28
Speaker
is that they can have a great support network, but there is something different about speaking to another woman who is nodding along when you're talking about what you've been feeling and who is normalizing what you've been feeling. I remember Rochelle and I sharing
00:18:49
Speaker
the things that we did to just try and, you know, you try all sorts of things. You give up your coffee, you give up chocolate, you give up, you know. And, you know, I remember we had spoken to an IVF specialist. It was one thing that we did have an appointment. You've got in your mind, like, if I don't have any of these things that I'm giving myself,
00:19:14
Speaker
Then I don't have to think, was it that, did I have too much coffee? Did I eat something wrong? Like a survival mechanism. Like you kind of, along, what's it called, the long game plan a bit.
00:19:30
Speaker
Yeah, like a self preservation, like, you know, because, and certainly with the beginning of my losses, I thought, was it because I, you know, was it because I jumped and did something? Was it because I lifted something? Was it, you know, it has such an impact, I think, on
00:19:49
Speaker
on your mental health and it's such a loss of control that I think sometimes you can't help but think, I must have done something, which we know is not true. So talking to Rochelle was just
00:20:09
Speaker
Everything that I said, she said, yes, I did that too. Yes, I thought that too. It was the first time that I had been able to have somebody who had also experienced losses to say, yeah, it's completely normal. I was able to talk to her about the point that I was at, which was
00:20:32
Speaker
How much longer do I put myself through this? How much longer do I put my loved ones through this? It was great to be able to talk to her and hear what she thought about that and that she had had similar thoughts. I think it just helped me know that I wasn't alone because I had felt very alone from that first loss.
00:21:02
Speaker
I felt I had a hard time feeling like I had a right to grieve and I felt very isolated. I didn't know anybody else that was going through this like I was. Interestingly, it doesn't stop the grief.
00:21:20
Speaker
Because I think we think, you know, and that's where a lot of the loneliness starts to integrate is that we don't want to identify with grieving externally because we may have all of the different external factors that suggest to us that we shouldn't or don't have the right to. But that doesn't actually stop the grief. And so they enter this kind of isolation because it's happening regardless of whether you want to push it, you want to tell people it's happening or not. It's there.
00:21:51
Speaker
I would go to work, do my job, and cry on the way home in the car because I was by myself. I would put Rory down for a nap and then go and cry and try and do it by myself because I think we often feel like we don't
00:22:16
Speaker
We're still thinking of other people. We don't want them to feel uncomfortable. And I guess I didn't, you know, there were, I felt that some people just thought, just get over it. Get over it. At least you can fall pregnant. At least you have Rory. At least you can try again.
00:22:35
Speaker
Absolutely. That's how some of this all the shame, the stigma, all of that plays into this feeling of isolation, this feeling that we grieve in private. That's okay. Many women want to grieve in private as well, but there's also those that want to almost have their grief validated, and that's where peer support comes in. It's a safe space. It's that having somebody to have a connection with who you know there is no place of judgment because
00:22:57
Speaker
Ultimately, they've been there too and that's where pink elephants came from as well. So much for what you said about your experience with Michelle was my experience with Gabby, that she was the first person that I connected with after my second miscarriage. They didn't try and fix me. They didn't try and offer solutions that met me where I was and also did a lot of what you just said about, oh, I thought that too. Yeah, I understand that. That's how I felt. Ultimately, that's empathy, which sits at the heart of everything at pink elephants.
00:23:24
Speaker
I love so much about your story and I'm so proud of so much work that you do.
Becoming a Peer Support Coordinator
00:23:30
Speaker
Above and beyond of what we ask for you at Pink Elephant, you really are completely driven by purpose and it's lovely to see how far you've come with Pink Elephants. I think it would be really nice for the listeners to hear a little bit more about what your role is at Pink Elephants and how you really have come full circle now and I'd love to hear a bit more about that. Thanks, Sam.
00:23:52
Speaker
When I saw the Pink Elephants website, I immediately felt a connection. I don't even know how to describe it. It was just so nice. I felt understood. After I had my phone call with Rochelle, I thought, I want to be a companion.
00:24:18
Speaker
I wasn't, you know, I knew I was coming to a time when I would, you know, I felt that I had to make a decision soon on how much longer I would keep on going. But, you know, I knew that I really wanted to be involved with Pink elephants. And when I looked up,
00:24:42
Speaker
what the requirements were for being a companion, which was having finished your journey and having 12 months after your last loss. I thought, that's what I'm going to do.
00:25:03
Speaker
So after, when I found out I was pregnant with Sophia and then obviously went through a lot of anxiety during that pregnancy. We didn't share the news with most people until after 20 weeks. It just took that long to...
00:25:18
Speaker
to feel more confident. But as soon as I had had Sophia, and then I was past that 12 months since the last loss, I had it in my diary. I had it written down that this was when I was going to send the application through.
00:25:39
Speaker
So I did that and spoke to Anna and did the training and became a peer support companion in 2021.
00:25:54
Speaker
It just felt so amazing for me to be able to have the opportunity to support women in the way that I was supported. To me, it just felt like a privilege. And it was also, I think, a way to honor what I had been through and to honor my losses.
00:26:24
Speaker
In November, the end of November last year, I became the Peer Support Coordinator.
00:26:32
Speaker
So I look after all aspects of our peer support service. So that includes our online communities, our live chat service, and our personalized phone calls. And I've continued to maintain my role as a peer support companion. So I do still chat to women on live chat and with the phone calls. So it really has been a, you know, feel like coming full circle,
00:27:01
Speaker
to start as a woman who needed support and was given support, to now be supporting the women that are going through this, supporting our amazing companions that use their own lived experience to support women, and to just be a part of the organization that was
00:27:25
Speaker
Just from the moment I saw what Pink Elevance was about, it just was that weight off my shoulders. Yeah, I think we can all relate to...
00:27:39
Speaker
you know, having walked in these shoes and then wanting to give back in such a profound, like when I say profound, not that, well, I think what we're all doing is pretty profound, but, but I feel like the feeling is profound of that wanting to continue to use the experience with meaning and dignity and purpose. You know, it's, it's, I really resonate. That's why we're here.
00:28:09
Speaker
People don't talk about it, but it's happening behind closed doors, hidden behind smiling faces.
Supporting Pregnancy Loss Community
00:28:17
Speaker
There are so many people suffering in silence right now, unable to access the support that they need and deserve, simply because they don't even know that there is support available.
00:28:33
Speaker
The pink elephants community is made up of people from all over Australia. Some come from the big smoke, others from the bush. Some of us have heaps of friends and family around. Others have none. Some have lost babies at five weeks. Some had ectopic pregnancies.
00:28:55
Speaker
Some had multiple ultrasounds. Others only ever saw the two red lines on a positive pregnancy test. But we all have something in common.
00:29:08
Speaker
We have all lost a baby. We are all bereaved parents. There are estimated to be over 100,000 of us across Australia every single year. Please help us connect with these people to give them the support that they deserve. No one should have to lose a baby and be left on their own to navigate their grief.
00:29:35
Speaker
Help Pink Elephant support more brave parents. Visit pinkelephants.org.au
00:29:46
Speaker
We resonate in that real profound feeling of wanting to make this experience mean something and be dignified and be driven into purpose and action. And I've really resonated with that, why I'm here and why I do the work I do with my practice.
00:30:07
Speaker
And onto that, because now moving into this role of peer support coordinator and being so across the bereavement program that pink elephants support families across the country. What is it do you feel that from a peer support experience and a counseling experience, what do you feel that is a great kind of
00:30:35
Speaker
unifier in the two. As a counsellor, the one-on-one experience I know offers something, but as a peer support coordinator, why do you think it's important for them both to be available or in some cases even be merged?
00:30:52
Speaker
Yep. So I think, you know, with our peer support companions, they're amazing in that they are using their own lived experience to provide support and comfort and validation to women going through early pregnancy loss. I think with the Pink Elephant's bereaved birth support program,
00:31:18
Speaker
That's run by our incredible counselor, Marianne, over six sessions. It covers a different aspect of the early pregnancy loss experience each session. Marianne provides information, skills, and mindfulness in each session. I think when we're going through early pregnancy loss,
00:31:45
Speaker
You know, pink elephants is not only providing peer support, so somebody's saying, I've been where you are. What you're feeling is normal. It's understandable and it's valid. And then, you know, you also have the opportunity to work with Mary Ann, who is saying, here are the tools that you can use. Here are the mindfulness techniques. Here are the skills that you can use while you're processing what you're going through.
00:32:15
Speaker
And, you know, I think a further peer support is provided with the PEB sessions because I have spoken to women who have been a participant in the PEB sessions. They will still use our peer support services. They will still use Live Chat. They're still part of the online communities.
00:32:40
Speaker
To me, it's just a greater, you know, you've got more options for support depending on what you need right at that moment. And, you know, a lot of the PEBS participants form their own circle of support because they keep in touch after the program has finished and they support each other after that program has finished. So I think it's just amazing to have
00:33:10
Speaker
all of these different support services that I think can be used together. And I think it's also important to add that you may need different things at different times. I think we can all relate, right? Like, so one-on-one counseling people can have the lived experience. Like, for example, I'm a lived experience counselor, but then also that is going to be a different dynamic of relationship than somebody that is on that
00:33:36
Speaker
that social kind of almost friend companion way. It's just the way that it works. There is a different type of energy. Then as Marianne does in the bereavement program, there's such a psycho-education around things that you can proactively do, which I think is a lot of
00:33:54
Speaker
where some people end up. I need to be active in something. So it really is a whole heap of different offerings dependent on where you are in your process, dependent on where you are in your day, could be hour to hour, it could be different. So I think it is really important to acknowledge that there isn't only one way for one person, but there's also not necessarily one way across the course of this
00:34:23
Speaker
this journey, which Sam and I are really trying to avoid the word, but there it is journey. Um, I wanted to just ask if you guys could just be a little, um, just explain to us what PAB is. Thanks, Danielle for explaining how counseling and peer support can come together. I mean, that'd been really intentional from pink elephants perspective that we provide a varying range of services so that we meet the needs of different women and different partners, because we all
00:34:48
Speaker
have different experiences there is no one size fits all there is no one again that word journey that we need to keep coming back to you can watch me not to feel like it minimizes the experience right and that's why i am but no there is no it is there is no it is intentional by pink elephants to have several problems programs together.
00:35:09
Speaker
I just want to clarify that PEBS for us stands for Pink Elephant's bereavement support program. You can read all about that at the Pink Elephant's website. It is a select program and unfortunately we never meet the capacity. But if you keep your eye on it, you can register when it's open if it's something that you think would be useful to yourself.
00:35:26
Speaker
I guess I want to bring it back to the women that you really are on the front line, Danielle. You hear women's stories day after day, as does Stacy within your private counseling as well. I guess maybe even throw this question to both of you, even though this is not what we rehearsed, but around what are women telling you that they want to see?
00:35:47
Speaker
changing their experience. What are women telling you that is still really awful about their experience and that kind of future focus? If you can both speak to that, I'd love to listen.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, so I think most of the women that I speak to express their feeling of isolation. They still feel alone and often feel like their grief is minimised. You know, finding it hard to talk about their loss after a period of time, feeling like there's a time limit on how long they're allowed to grieve.
00:36:26
Speaker
And, you know, we don't just...
00:36:30
Speaker
hear from women who have just miscarried. We talk to live chat with women. We see it in the online communities, women who have just got their first period after their miscarriage, that are sort of struggling with dealing with friends or family members that are announcing their pregnancies. And we also see women reaching out when they're pregnant after loss.
00:36:59
Speaker
I spoke to a woman recently and she was trying to navigate how she was dealing with the pregnancy that she had after loss and feeling like she should just be excited but she had so much anxiety and every twinge and every cramp would bring back, would bring up a lot of anxiety and she just felt
00:37:28
Speaker
that she was finding it really hard to get through each day of her pregnancy. It was through the chat that we had that I said to her, this is completely normal. I mentioned that we do have a pregnancy after loss online community, that the women in that group
00:37:51
Speaker
all get it that, you know, you can have a mixture of happiness and hope and excitement, but still feel devastated by your early pregnancy loss. And so anxious that sometimes you don't feel like you can allow yourself to get too hopeful, almost like a self preservation. Um, so yeah, I think that, you know,
00:38:20
Speaker
The support that we offer, it's so varied and it's so ongoing. It's through the early pregnancy loss journey, but after that as well, women who have miscarried, but months after are still getting that period every month. That's why the different communities that we have help women through each stage of that.
00:38:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think, I mean everything you're saying is obviously what is just softly sweeping through my rooms. I think the thing I did want to add is that I really see a lot of shock.
00:39:02
Speaker
And obviously the word shock would be an obvious symbol when there is a loss and that realization of the loss. But I think I'm talking about the shock that goes well beyond that one moment, whatever that looks like that every person remembers. I'm talking about the shock of how maybe the picture of your life looks different, the shock of that
00:39:28
Speaker
full on reaction that that work colleague gave you or that the shock of how three years later a pregnancy announcement at this particular day got you in tears. Like I think there's so much continued shock in my clients and that I can also personally relate to that, you know, is a real exhaustion to it because shock brings surprise
00:39:55
Speaker
It's also the longest moving energetic feeling, so it actually can take a long, long time to move through the body. So it's almost like there's tremors again of aftershocks that happen from those shocks too.
00:40:10
Speaker
So yeah, as well as obviously the initial shock of a loss, there's so much shock that happens around an infertility journey or a pregnancy loss journey, because I think a lot of us, particularly as women, had very clear ideas of how things might be when it comes to family. We had maybe a dream of three kids or two kids or, you know, there's all these kinds of narratives and stories that we are encouraged to have as young women, as young girls.
00:40:40
Speaker
So then when those things unravel differently, yeah, I really do see this surprise that is separate to just the loss. It's a surprise of life, surprise of this isn't how I saw it being made. I often hear a lot of, because we do obviously a workplace program, and it's often that feeling of,
00:41:01
Speaker
as girls of certain generation, you've gone through life with a Huggies advert about what childbirth will be like, what having children will be, what being a family says as false narratives that you showed to Stacey as well. But also this ability to have control. We were taught over women of a certain generation that if you work hard enough at something, you can make it happen. You can create anything.
00:41:25
Speaker
And I often worry about how that also fosters some of this self-blame and shame that comes and how it's interconnected and intertwined, right? Because it's the first thing that really, you have no control over the outcome. Danielle, you talked about it with the aspirin and the progester and the klexane. I've been there myself and then had pregnancies that didn't work out and feeling like, but I did everything I was meant to do. I didn't do this and I didn't do that. And I took this and I had this. And there really is that shock is part of that, right?
00:41:54
Speaker
And I had described as well, I think it's Zoe Clark Coates and we'll link to it in the show notes, but around the fact that she felt like she woke up in a different country and everyone was speaking a different language. And I was just, that gives me goosebumps, right? It's that feeling of, I described it as,
00:42:11
Speaker
I woke up in the sea drowning and I had no idea or way how to get through those waves. And that's kind of how peer support and counseling can help you, right? They can give you from lived experience and from skill sets, how to kind of go forward. And like you said, Stacy, it doesn't really make you great, but if we can make it that little bit easier, that's why we're here.
00:42:34
Speaker
So I'm just going to bring it back. We want to ask every person who comes on this podcast one question, and we want this to be the common thread throughout, because the miscarriage rebellion is about inciting change. We want to see action around early pregnancy loss for too long. We've suffered these journeys alone, isolated, and with a lack of validation and support. So I'm going to ask you the question, if you could wave a magic wand for brave parents, and if you could change anything about their experience, what would that be?
00:43:03
Speaker
It would be that the early pregnancy loss is recognised and validated every time, even just with the words, I'm sorry for your loss. That every time a couple goes through this, there is an immediate access to resources to learn that pink elephants is here.
00:43:29
Speaker
that you don't have to reach out to pink elephants immediately, but when you are ready, we are here waiting to support you. I think, you know, that that applies to
00:43:47
Speaker
Every space where couples are finding out every day that there's no heartbeat, that they're going through a miscarriage, whether it's in a hospital, whether it's getting a scan done, whether it's at your GP, whether they're experiencing a spontaneous miscarriage at home, at work, that just across all of those paths is this
00:44:09
Speaker
recognition that this is a big deal, that it's painful, and that every couple has a right to grieve, and it's valid, and that you don't have to go through this alone, that we are here. You can't take away the pain that
00:44:33
Speaker
couples are experiencing with early pregnancy loss. But you can let them know that they don't have to go through that pain alone.
00:44:43
Speaker
That was an absolutely brilliant episode and I really can't thank Danielle enough again for showing all of her wisdom. I just love how full circle the episode came. But Danielle found Pink elephants via her mum and then eventually accessed our phone peer support, spoke to Rachelle who's one of our valued peer support companions.
00:45:04
Speaker
who gave her all of the empathy and support that she was looking for. I find it quite hard to hear that she had to wait until she'd got through so many losses before she actually had access to support. And I can't help but wonder what would her journey have been like if after that first loss, Danielle had been given a referral for support to Pink Elephants.
00:45:23
Speaker
But nevertheless, that was Danielle's experience. And I'm really glad that she found us, that she connected with our peer support program, and that Full Circle is now actually our peer support coordinator. It really is a heartfelt episode that gave us so much knowledge around the journey of those that go through recurrent pregnancy loss, but also demonstrating the courage and resilience that Danielle has, and so much heart in the way that she chooses to now give back to our community. Amazing episode. Thanks, Danielle.
00:45:53
Speaker
Today's episode may have brought up some feelings for you that you need some support around. That's totally okay. Head to pinkelephants.org.au to find access to our circle of support, your safe space where you can be met with empathy and understanding throughout all of your experiences of early pregnancy loss. We're here for you. You are not alone. If you enjoyed listening to the miscarriage rebellion, please help us by leaving a five star review wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:46:23
Speaker
The miscarriage rebellion is a pink elephants podcast produced by our friends at three piece studio.