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S2 E12: Grief, Policy and Inequity in Reproductive Support.
0 Playsin 6 days
In this deeply personal and insightful episode of The Miscarriage Rebellion, host Sam interviews Sarah Mitchell, a Member of Parliament for New South Wales and former Minister for Education and Early Childhood. Sarah shares her own experience of early pregnancy loss, which ignited her passion for advocating for better support and policy change for families navigating fertility journeys.
This conversation delves into the emotional, societal, and political landscapes of reproductive health, miscarriage, and family building.
Sarah speaks candidly about her two miscarriages between her two daughters, including a devastating loss at 10 weeks, which was only discovered at a routine appointment. She discusses the acute feeling of grief—a feeling she wasn't able to label at the time but recognizes now.
Sam and Sarah explore the societal narrative that often minimizes early pregnancy loss, making women feel like they are not "grief worthy," especially if they already have children. Sarah reflects on feeling exposed and isolated going through her loss in a small country town and the burden of feeling she "shouldn't" be sad because she already had a daughter.
Sarah, now in opposition, is chairing a Parliamentary inquiry into fertility support in NSW. The broad scope includes:
- Fertility education in schools.
- Support for conditions like endometriosis (endo).
- Addressing miscarriage and loss.
- The IVF and surrogacy journey.
- The goal is to move beyond the linear narrative of parenthood and create a more comprehensive support system.
If you are interested in reading more about the impact of geographical isolation on fertility and loss, you can find the Pink Elephants Not Just A Loss Report on their website.
EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.
- For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
- Access all our support
- Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support
- Join Online Communities
- Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA
- Join the Circle of support
- Follow @pinkelephantssupport on instagram.
STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram account where she shares some of her lived experience.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Miscarriage Rebellion Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the miscarriage rebellion. I am Stacey June Lewis, lead of the Pink Elephant Support Network group counseling program, Grief and Grace. And along with Pink Elephant's co-founder and CEO, Sam Payne, through this podcast, we will share the stories of many Australians who have lost their babies to early pregnancy loss.
00:00:21
Speaker
With evidence and empathy, we unpack the shame, blame and stigma and lack of support that they may face. This is a loss that has been silenced for far too long and we deserve better. We are here to normalize the conversation and to make lasting change.
Meet Sarah Mitchell: A Personal Journey of Loss
00:00:37
Speaker
On today's episode of the Miscarriage Rebellion, I am really honored to have Sarah Mitchell with us. I've known Sarah for a number of years now. She's been a long time supporter of Pink Elephants, the work that we do, and the need for more support for women who go through early pregnancy loss. I'm going to let Sarah introduce herself and then Sarah will talk to her experience as well. I'm really grateful that you could be here with us today.
00:01:01
Speaker
Thank you for having me, Sam. I'm a bit nervous. I don't normally do podcasts, so this is a bit new for me. um But thank you. So, yeah I guess to introduce myself, I'm a Member of Parliament here in New South Wales. So I'm in the the upper house. I've been in that role since about 2011 and I've had different things I've done over the years. I was a minister in the formal government, Minister for Education and Early Childhood, among other things. And I'm also a mum, live in Gunnedah, out in the country, two daughters and a husband and sort of have that life as well. Yeah. it's a good life. Yeah. So you get the city and the country well. Yes, best of both worlds. Yes, yeah I love that. and If you can start by sharing with us your experience of pregnancy loss and what you went through and how you kind of landed here as well. Yeah, sure. So I um have, as I said, two beautiful daughters. They're nearly eight and 12, but I did have two losses in between having my girls and the first was quite early on. I was sort of only really had just done sort of the home pregnancy test and realised that we were expecting and then think it was about a week later obviously started to yeah realise that that wasn't happening anymore and I was really upset. I found it you know quite a tough thing but I sort of also was like statistically this happens is you know this is probably my my unlucky time and, you know, we'll we'll keep trying. and And then I fell pregnant again um and that one also was a miscarriage but I was a fair bit
Grief and Societal Norms: Validating Miscarriage Loss
00:02:27
Speaker
further along. was about 10 weeks along. um And that one was really tough because I hadn't been expecting anything
00:02:35
Speaker
that and it was literally picked up at like a routine sort of doctor's appointment so that feeling of kind of going expecting to you know see your baby for the first time I'd had an an earlier appointment about six weeks before it was over the Christmas period we were heading away and all the blood tests were good and it was all sort of looking positive and I was feeling a bit yucky and I sort of thought oh yep and then yeah routine doctor's appointment and you know hearing the sort of horrible words that there's no heartbeat, which I know many people have been through, including yourself. And yeah, just needing to to go through a D&C and having a really um awful day because it all happened within, you know, the sort of 10 to 12 hour period. um Yeah. And that was awful. And it took me a little while to to kind of get through that and to even to be able to talk about it. But I think for me and my husband and um yeah, just sort of gave me insight into what it feels like
00:03:26
Speaker
to feel like your body's let you down and to feel upset. And it probably wasn't a actually until I met you several years later um when you said to me, you know, you would have been grieving and I'd never put that word on it, but I definitely was. And, you know, I was a member of parliament. I was busy and my sort of forward facing persona was being this very strong woman. But, yeah, I was oh pretty um pretty distraught after that for a period of time and it took a little while to work through it. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting that you kind of make that connection that with kind of like you can look back and say, yes, it was grief. But when you're in it, you couldn't label it as grief.
00:04:02
Speaker
And I guess that's a lot to do with the conversations that we have around miscarriage and early pregnancy loss. We put these labels like early on. Yeah. And that in a way disenfranchises our grief experience. And we're told it's common. It happens. It's nature's way. It's something you get on with. Yeah. So you've kind of got this conflict of emotion where you're feeling grief, but you don't identify as grief worthy. Society tells you you just get on with
Challenges of Rural Healthcare Access
00:04:25
Speaker
it. Yeah. And then you also find like i you know, obviously living in a small country town, you know, and our doctor was amazing and and had known us. And, you know, he he looked after me in my my subsequent pregnancy with our second daughter, now Matilda. But um when you know everybody and they know you and you're sort of going from the GP's office over to the clinic to get a better ultrasound, know, I had to travel to Tamworth to have a DNC because I couldn't do it in Gunnedah, which again, it's sort of only an hour's drive. But even going through all of that, when people, i mean, in hindsight, it's lovely that people know you because that care is there, but you're also really exposed on a very vulnerable day. And then i yeah, you almost feel like, I wouldn't say i felt guilty, but when I felt so upset, i was thinking I've already got a beautiful little girl. Like there's so many people who don't have that, you know, why should I feel, you know, like I'm, um i don't know, like why should I feel lost because i already have so much and imagine people who don't even have what I have. And then I've sort of only afterwards on reflecting it saying like it's actually okay to feel it and be sad about it And to talk about it, and I know not everyone can, but I feel like when I've got a position now where I do have a little bit of a profile, particularly with my job, you know, being able to share it, to say actually a lot of people go through this and it's okay and you're not alone and it's okay to hurt and to feel it and be
Political Advocacy for Fertility Support
00:05:43
Speaker
sad. um And you don't have to compare yourself to others. This isn't a sort of grief competition, you know. you can feel sad. you can You can be empathetic to others on their fertility journey, but we're all allowed to feel it and we should be able to feel it and not feel feel bad about Yeah, 100%. And I know we've talked about this before offline, but our journeys were very similar. I too had Georgie um when I was going through my two losses, back to back losses. And I also felt similar and was even told by people, oh, just focus on Georgie. That'll make you better. And it's kind of like you just don't feel worthy of grief. Yes. But actually, when I reflect now, it my grief was magnified by what I was losing because I loved adored Georgie so much. I was desperate to give her a sibling. And that feeling of I've just lost another Georgie is how it felt to me at that time. So I think we do need to move away from this comparison of whether you're worthy of grief because you've got a kid or not got a kid or what gestation it was. So, yeah, I love that you brought that up. Yeah.
00:06:41
Speaker
We know that you're now doing some incredible work in this space that will hopefully help change policies, landscape, support more women and kind of just create more awareness around this. Do you want to talk to a little bit about the inquiry and what you're setting up Parliament at the moment? Yeah, sure. So this is obviously an area that I'm you know very passionate about and I've sort of almost by default found myself over the last few years, particularly just connecting with lots of women and families who are going through their own journeys of fertility. And I've never sort of had, you know, I guess, sort of carriage of that in a political sense. I was education minister. I wasn't sort of health or women's or anything like that. But I've always really thought this was an important policy space. And I've always tried to use my voice in parliament or even in cabinet when I was a minister to talk about some of these issues. um And so, yeah, now ah my my party's in opposition, so I've got a bit more time to to do some different work. And so we've established an inquiry here, which is we were calling it into fertility support because it's literally going from everything from, you know, what should students be learning at school about their own fertility? What does that journey look like through to things like endo, obviously things like miscarriage and loss? um
00:07:51
Speaker
And then the IVF and the surrogacy journey for those who go down that path. And the reason that it sort of started, as I said, there's been a lot of different women, mainly in families I've met, um friends who've been through things, different people I've connected to, where I just sort of thought there's probably a space here where we could look at um how we better support everyone on that fertility journey, because everyone is on a journey. It's so common for people
Importance of Fertility Education
00:08:14
Speaker
um to be thinking about this and to be working through what it looks like. There's no kind of linear pathway to parenthood.
00:08:20
Speaker
And so originally I was thinking of more sort of the IVF surrogacy end. But then when we started to look into that, there's always steps that precede that. So, you know, it's it's loss. It's many, many losses that then make people potentially then go to IVF. There can be things like endo. And so then, yeah, the concept is we want to look at kind of everything in that space. So submissions have closed. We'll look to have public hearings in the new year and really look at what we can do to better support people on the journey. It's pretty open-ended, but I'm excited. I think we're going to come up with some really good things that will actually make a tangible difference for people on the journey. And that's that's the intention. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's got an incredible intention and I love the broad scope because I feel like that leads us to be able to hear so many different versions of building families. Mm-hmm.
00:09:04
Speaker
And touching on the education part as well, it's that whole thing of we hear time and time again that we're kind of sold this narrative early on of prevent a pregnancy, go on the pill, get your career, get married, buy your house.
00:09:17
Speaker
All of these things are tick boxes that you work hard towards. and then you can have a family. But what we don't talk about, well, by that point, you're probably in your mid-30s and your fertility might be declining and like all sorts of different factors go into that.
00:09:31
Speaker
But we need to get better at providing education much earlier on so that people have more informed, empowered decisions around their own reproductive health. But it's even like now I'm listening to my daughter. She's 12. She's just in year six and they've gone through sex ed in year five and year six.
00:09:47
Speaker
I didn't put her in in year six because I was like, I'm done. I was like, I can tell you more. And this is ridiculous. It's still the same narrative now of how to prevent a pregnancy. And I'm like, OK, I actually think you've learned more by what I do here at Pink Elephants. And so I know that one of the things that we talk about this as well is that we need to get better at giving people that information much earlier on. Yeah. and I think there's a good link there as well as a former education minister. definitely. And like, you know, it's the balance, right? Obviously you need to teach young people about sexual health and, you know, all of that's important and you don't so you don't want to not do that.
00:10:18
Speaker
But there's also, I think, almost this assumption that the minute you try to get pregnant, you'll be able to. And yeah and you don't want to sort of scare young people, but you want them to be informed, as you say. And even, you know, there's been some work um around just lots of different organisations do it, but even around things like pelvic pain, period, it's teaching boys and girls about what that should look like what's normal for you or your partner um male fertility you know all of that is actually really important and I think you can do it in a way that is appropriate for for the age of the the students but just starts to get that thinking because you know um I you know have girlfriends who are in my 20s who are now thinking about egg freezing and all of that and you know
00:10:57
Speaker
a medical experts can talk to them about that not me but like it's it's ah it's such ah ah a conversation that is happening with really a younger and younger demographic and I think that awareness of um yeah what's going on with your body what you know normal is in terms of things like particularly for girls with things like period pain so many people who don't know they have endo until they get a later diagnosis when they have fertility issues yeah I have a really great friend who, you know, has ah a beautiful little boy with her husband now, but terrible journey for her. And she didn't know that her endo, she know that she really had it, let alone that it was chronic and really impacting sort of their journey. Because she said, I just thought periods hurt. I thought you got period pain. Like, so there's all sorts of elements of that that come together where you think, well,
00:11:41
Speaker
You know, and particularly, I guess, for me as a ah mum of girls, too, like we talk openly, my girls know about
Fertility Support Inquiry Process
00:11:46
Speaker
our losses. And, you know, we're, you know, my youngest particularly is you know, why don't we have any more, you know, why don't I have any more siblings? And so we sort of say that, you know, we, we went through this. And so my kids have known that for a from a young age. And I think maybe talking about that a little bit more, not to scare, but to inform. And I think that's the balance.
00:12:02
Speaker
Yeah, I think that's the balance answer too. I've had many conversations, obviously I'm in this role, so my kids start to know what I do, but we definitely include the three babies that we lost as part of our family, that's part of our history, our story. And I think it's important because I know that then I'm equipping them when they're older, if they go through it, their loved ones or their friends go through it, yeah it's not going something that they shy away from. They'll know to lean into that conversation and how to do that with validation and empathy, which is super important.
00:12:28
Speaker
I know that you've kind of only just closed off submissions, but it'd be really interesting. Is there any kind of themes, anything coming through that you're hearing at this stage? Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot, a lot to unpack, a lot of different groups. and engine yeah And, you know, literally starting to read through the submissions. And I think when we have the hearings, it'll be a good opportunity because you can sort of sit and have a conversation a bit like, you know, we are, but with other parliamentary colleagues. um I think there's some sort of almost low-hanging fruit around some of the information that needs to be going out there. I think there's a few things around just, you know, almost like bureaucratic changes as to how people are um supported. i think definitely more information about what's available in terms of supports is coming through, people just sort of not knowing what was available for them. And then the surrogacy piece is kind of a bit of a different approach again there's some work happening at a federal level at that that's a bit more obviously than just ah a New South Wales thing but again there's a few bits and pieces there that I think might sort of help families who go on that journey as well so but I'm excited you know we'll see where it takes us yeah I think it's really fascinating to be able to do this to listen deeply and then kind of identify so for those that don't understand the process of an inquiry so submissions like you said have happened people have put their submissions in then you have the hearings and then what comes next So effectively we will do sort of as many hearings as we want and what happens is people who've written submissions will come and they'll speak to sort of their experience, we'll ask questions and then the committee will formulate a report which as the chair i will sort of direct and lead and we'll make recommendations that will then go to government about um yeah things that we think they should be doing to improve in this space and so you know that will be led by i guess what we hear from people who come to speak to us a lot of people in their submissions have put recommendations in about things that they would like to see which is good and then the government has sort of six months to to respond basically so and and I think what it does is it starts that conversation around you know this is the work we've done this is what we found people are asking for
00:14:30
Speaker
then it really is up to the government in terms of what they do with it. But it also doesn't have to be the end of the conversation. You know I've been on a lot of inquiries where recommendations get made and sometimes there can be changes to legislation that might start a campaign for something else. So it's it's not the end point when the inquiry finishes. I think it's just kind of the next step in in in some potential reforms yeah no i see it as the beginning yeah this is amazing we're shining a spotlight we're listening to stories and experiences we're meeting them with that validation and empathy and understanding and then spotting the gaps and going this is what now needs to change this is what we recommend i want to see more of these things they really excite me Yeah, it's good.
Learning from Global Fertility Support Systems
00:15:06
Speaker
Another thing that we talked about um offline was that you'd recently gone overseas and met with a lot of people in this kind of reproductive health space. you want to talk a little bit about that experience? Yeah, yeah, sure. So I had a chance to do a study tour earlier this year and I went to um the yeah UK and to France and to the US and I looked at a few different things, but one area was around sort of women's health fertility support and it was just interesting to see how other jurisdictions are sort of managing the
00:15:34
Speaker
Yeah, some of these challenges, um particularly I think in the UK, I met with the organisation Frendo, who ah you actually introduced me to, um but doing endometriosis support through their app, but also into businesses and really talking about some of the economic impacts when women are suffering from that, but ways that these companies can get involved, um you know, amazing, amazing stuff that they're doing. i went to a conference in Liverpool where they were talking about some of the changes to um laws around things like, particularly in the UK, um bereavement leave for people who go through through loss. And that was interesting too because it was how do you word this in a way that you get the support that you need but then you don't accidentally sort of impinge on other laws around things like, you know, access to abortion. And so that, me, is a bit of a policy nerd. I was like, it's really interesting how you word legislation. So I did things like that. In France, I met with some of their demographic people. They've got real issues, obviously, with declining birth rates. So there are um some programs actually funded through the French government to help pay for people to do IVF. So that's interesting. Yeah, so that's interesting. Again, workplace support and awareness around fertility, people needing leave to go for appointments and things when they're going through IVF. i met with some advocacy groups. And then in the US, yeah, saw some of the medical professionals working on things like rainbow clinics. I met with this ah amazing organisation in Washington, DC, who helps African American women who are going through through loss and their sort of fertility journeys. Yeah, and just sort of saw firsthand how how they do some of the work, particularly in New York and and LA at the hospitals around supporting families. So Yeah, it was amazing. I had a really good time, but also learnt a lot and made some good contacts um for for the work that we're doing now, which will be really important. Yeah, it is. And it's that collaborative lens and approach, right, of going out, looking outwards, seeing what other people are doing in this space. And I know that when we championed bereavement leave, when that changed here in Australia, we were also speaking to the policymakers and the MPs in New Zealand because that happened ahead. and then we were like okay so what did you put in your case for sort how did you get this through and we can make real change on a global scale we can help each other right yeah i'm gonna go back though to the bit that got me really excited which was the french example yes and what they're doing to obviously declining fertility rates we know similar here as well and and i wrote a piece for me to gender actually on this that because it was kind of this whole thing about bringing the baby bonus back and i was kind of a bit like
00:18:02
Speaker
no because you've got one in six couples struggling to conceive potentially facing down the barrel of a very expensive fertility journey that may or may not involve ART assisted reproductive therapies or IVF um and so why don't we invest more in supporting those so that they they're already on their journey they're desperate to build their families and for some it is a financial barrier absolutely so I think that that's something that yeah so what did you learn from that yeah So it was interesting because they, particularly in France, because they have no surrogacy at all, right? You can't do altruistic or or um compensated or commercial or anything. Obviously, some families go out, as happens when laws like that exist. um But, yeah, it was particularly the advocacy group that I met with um were just, yeah, talking about that support for, I'm going to say it's up to six IVF, maybe maybe it's four, I can't remember, but there are a number of rounds that basically the government, it's through that sort of public health
Barriers to Fertility Treatment in Regional Areas
00:18:57
Speaker
system. um
00:18:58
Speaker
And then that also has started a conversation again, not just in the public service over there, but in like the corporate world around people taking leave because they need to go to appointments or they need to go. And so there's this sort of open conversation about it, which, and and and it was very much driven by the birth rate is declining, we need to do something about it. And look, I agree with you, I think being being able to give people financial support to help them on that journey because it's very expensive and people sometimes, and I know people who have not been able to keep going because they can't afford it. um And I guess for me living in a regional community as well, a lot of people have to travel. We don't have these services available everywhere. And so that adds another cost. It adds another burden in terms of being able to take time off work or leave family or like it's really hard. And so I think if you're going to invest money as a government into helping people grow their families, I think starting at that end rather than maybe after afterwards is, yeah, I think that's a better better policy setting in my view. Absolutely support that. touch a little bit on the rural and regional experience now, because as a woman, obviously you live regionally, that's your home, Gunnedah. You were really an integral part of our Not Just a Loss Report. We kind of brought you into that as well and listened to your expertise and many other stakeholders.
00:20:14
Speaker
How do you think the experience differs? loss, fertility journeys for women in regional communities versus those that, say, live in a metropolitan area. I just think access is harder. And i I mean, that's not unique just to fertility. It's sort of health in general. We've got some amazing health clinicians and professionals who work in our areas. And I think, like I said earlier, even with my own experience, you get that real close sort of connection to the people who help you when you're going through that. In a lot of cases, it's a local GP or, you know, in some of the bigger regional areas. centres, there'll be obstetricians and and those sort of specialists. But I think it's just that that barrier in terms of access. You know, as I said, when you go through loss, sometimes it's difficult to be able to um get the supports you need. And, you know, my own example is one, but
00:20:59
Speaker
But I was lucky that I could go to the hospital in our next town. I also had private health insurance, so I could go to the private hospital. Otherwise, I probably would have been waiting or I might have had to look at other methods other than a DNC. So I think that choice is probably not there necessarily in the same way, just because of the access. And also, I guess that isolation too, when you're a bit further away and, you know, I remember you and I talking about it. um because I wish pink elephants existed when I was going through through what I went through. But you sort of online and you're kind of Googling and trying to find forums or things where you can talk about it. And I guess that would happen in the city too. But I just think that, yeah, maybe there's not kind of that immediate support in the same way. And even, as I said, with the fertility issues, A lot of people in my family and friends have gone through IVF yeah for different reasons. Most have to come to Sydney or Newcastle. um There's just not a lot in terms of offerings in in our areas. And that's the same with other health sort of specialties, but it probably just adds another burden, I think, and another emotional layer when you've got a – and a financial layer too. yes so absolutely Yeah, absolutely. And that's 100% what we uncovered in the report from lived experience and other experts as well in this space that –
00:22:07
Speaker
There's almost like a double isolation because you're isolated by the experience because generally society doesn't really talk so much about these things. And then on top of that, you've also got geographical isolation, which makes it harder to access care or even just having a friends pop in on you to check on you. It's not the same. It can be much harder. So, yeah, we've really tried to kind of shine a spotlight on some of those inequities and then we've linked it to some recommendations if
Personal Grief and Advocacy Motivation
00:22:30
Speaker
anyone's interested you can go to pink elephants and look up that report i'm sure it will also play part of what we've put submission to the yeah inquiry as well um yeah i'd like to kind of loop back now if it's okay of course and go back to your personal experience because i feel like it's almost and i know the term journey is overused but it has been right because yeah you're right your experiences were similar to in mine where i've we've talked about this before And similar timeframe on our losses and similar years. So you've now gone away. You've kind of looked at what's happening within the system. You've learned so much from overseas. You're kind of hosting this inquiry.
00:23:03
Speaker
What would you want to tell yourself now that you wish you'd known then? Um, that's, yeah, that's hard. I like, like right in the thick of like that day, that really awful day, like that, I guess you will get through it and you know, it it does get better. Um, and I suppose, even though I don't know if this is going to sound weird, but like now knowing that we, we did have our second daughter, Matilda, who's now nearly eight, like that felt really like, you know, our family was complete when we had her and, um, and not that, you know, we would have been very happy just with Annabelle, who of course we love dearly as well, but, It just, yeah, something about that feeling of like, and it's funny, Tilly, is she's a bit of a character, and when we talk about it, she's like, oh, mum, maybe you guys were just waiting for me. And I was like, maybe we were. like And that sort of makes me bit emotional. But it sort of, yeah it that that sort of, yeah, that your family will feel complete. I think that would have been a nice feeling on a personal level to have. But then also, I guess, professionally, yeah,
00:23:58
Speaker
being able to as I said use my role to help others and and I'd like people to sort of understand that that feeling of when all you want is a baby whether it's your first your third your tenth and you can't get it and just that that grief that that you know, almost sort of primal urge to be a mum and to not have it be working out for you is something I've felt. And I think that has really helped me do this work. And I think other other women and people who might be listening to this, that's what's driving me to do it. And I like that people maybe can see that people probably see politicians and think we don't know, we don't care, or we don't have a life. But But but that's why I want to do this, because in a sense, I've been in that position. You know, many have been through worse than me, and I know that, but I know what it feels like when it's not working for you. And to be able to use that for good and to use my role in public life to help improve others, um turning grief into something that might make a difference is is something that, you know, i'm I'm pretty proud I've been able to do. Yeah, and you should be. And I've known you for years and I've watched you carry this on for years yeah and keep doing more because there is more
Improving Medical Sensitivity to Miscarriage Stories
00:25:05
Speaker
to be done. And obviously we're incredibly grateful at Pink Elephants because it's great like to have other women alongside us who've similar, felt that pain, like been there too and then gone, okay, well... I'm not just going to move on from this I'm going now I'm in a different place I'm stronger now I've gone through what I've gone through I'm going to use that to make a difference for other people and not everyone does that so that's huge definitely something to be proud of and one that we're really grateful yeah and and like us I mean can I just say what you do and what Pink Elephants does like the the you know there's no words for it Sam and I know we've had a lot to do with each other now over the years but like it really matters and
00:25:43
Speaker
You would never be able to quantify the the number of people that you've helped with what you do. So you should be very proud in your team because you guys are amazing and I love working with you and I want to do it for a really long time. And we will. Thank you so much. But one last question. Okay.
00:25:57
Speaker
If you could change one thing, magic wand, blue sky, what would that be? One thing is really hard because there's a lot. Oh.
00:26:09
Speaker
no
00:26:13
Speaker
I mean, maybe maybe in the first instance, this is really small, but I think what we could do, and we could do it very easily, is have a better way of not having women have to tell their story over and over again if they don't want to when when they're going through it, which I know sounds like it's tiny, there's so much, but...
00:26:31
Speaker
When I was in um New York and at the Rainbow Clinic, they were saying what they do is they literally put on the um delivery suite a little um rainbow symbol so that someone coming in, because, you know, people come in and out through out someone's birth, know that they're having their rainbow baby. And so there's a little bit more sensitive, a little understanding if perhaps, you know, mum's a bit more anxious or dad or partner or whatever. That's so, so small. But I think if you could help that for people going through it or with subsequent pregnancies, I think that would be, yeah, be a really important, like that's something government could do tomorrow. And
Closing and Support Resources
00:27:06
Speaker
I think that would make a really big difference. So i'm going to pick that because it's an easy one that we can actually achieve. I absolutely love that. And I don't think it is small.
00:27:13
Speaker
I think it's massive for the woman in it there, because I can't tell you how many times I hear on a daily basis within our online communities. And when I see feedback from things like live chat and all the other services that we offer, it is that it is that I've had to tell my story five times to five different people today and I'm broken yeah and I can't do this anymore. What do I do? Or the ones that get a phone call from sonography clinic for the 12 week appointment that they missed. And they're like, well, the hospital knows I miscarried. I had my DNC there. Yeah.
00:27:42
Speaker
Why are they? Why someone? Yeah. There's no kind of like synergy and they're half into it. I mean, DJ Tiger, least on Kira's Bound by Love campaign, talked about this as well. It's almost like the admin mental load. 100%. shouldn't be on us who are going through it, right? There needs to be better systems.
00:27:59
Speaker
backing us as we do like pretty much as soon as you're going through that, there should be a way to make that clear in your sort of medical records, you know, so you're not retelling and re-traumatising because that's what it is. So that would be my, yeah, that would, I'll pick that as my one and I reckon we can do that. I reckon we can do that and I think it's incredible and I can't wait to see that one rolled out.
00:28:16
Speaker
Thank Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you having me. So grateful. Awesome. Thanks, Sarah. Today's episode may have brought up some feelings that you need some extra support around, and that's totally okay.
00:28:27
Speaker
Head to pinkhelephants.org.au to access our circle of support, your space where you can be met with empathy and support through all of your experiences of early pregnancy loss.
00:28:38
Speaker
We're here for you. You're not alone.