In the final episode of Season 2 of the podcast , our host Sam is joined by the phenomenal Dr. Jessica Zucker a Los Angeles-based psychologist specialising in women's reproductive and maternal mental health, and the author of I Had a Miscarriage and Normalize It.

Dr. Jessica shares her personal and professional worlds colliding after her own devastating loss, including the traumatic experience of an unmedicated D&C. As a seasoned professional, she was shocked to realise she did not have the necessary tools to navigate her own profound grief and isolation.

This conversation delves into the heart of the movement Dr. Jessica started to dismantle the pervasive silence, stigma, and shame surrounding pregnancy loss. It is a critical discussion for anyone who has experienced loss, those supporting them, and anyone interested in improving women's health outcomes.

Together they discuss:

 * The Power of Professional Vulnerability.
 * The Trifecta of Shame
 * The Antidote is Storytelling
 * Toxic Platitudes
 * Systemic Change
 * Therapy's Crucial Role

Connect with Dr. Jessica

 * @Ihadamiscarriage [https://www.instagram.com/ihadamiscarriage?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==]
 * Jessica Zucker, Ph.D. [https://www.drjessicazucker.com/]
 * I Had a Miscarriage: A Memoir, a Movement: Excellent for those who have recently experienced a loss.
 * Normalize It: Upending the Silent Stigma and Shame that Shape Women's Lives: Broadens the lens to discuss the power of storytelling across many aspects of women's lives.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on instagram.

 S2 E14: The Trifecta of Silence: Breaking Shame and Stigma in Pregnancy Loss

In another deeply moving episode, your host welcomes Samantha, a beloved Peer Support Coordinator for The Pink Elephants Support Network, who shares her extensive and intensely personal journey through loss. Samantha opens up about her five-year path with IVF, multiple miscarriages, and the heartbreaking decision to undergo a termination for medical reasons (TFMR) at 18 weeks after her waters broke prematurely.

Samantha vulnerably discusses the immense emotional toll, including the feeling of being in shock and the profound emptiness that followed. She shares the pivotal moment she decided to seek the purpose within her experience, recognizing that accepting her grief was the only thing connecting her to her lost babies.

This conversation is an essential exploration of:

 * The critical role of support and therapy in navigating the acute stages of grief.
   
 * The devastating reality of the medical system's language, such as "pregnancy tissue," and the emotional desensitization that can occur after prolonged fertility treatment.
   
 * The societal discomfort with baby loss and why the grief from miscarriage and stillbirth is often invisible and isolating.
   
 * Samantha's experience grappling with the difficult concept of "choice" during a TFMR and the need to prioritize the baby's quality of life.
   
 * The misconception that moving on means forgetting, and how the dual process model of grief allows for restorative movement while still honoring the connection to the baby.
   

Samantha's story is one of profound pain, survival, and ultimately, finding a way to transform her experience into a source of support for the community.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

S2 E13: From Patient to Advocate: Samantha's Path to Holding Space for Pregnancy Loss

In this deeply personal and insightful episode of The Miscarriage Rebellion, host Sam interviews Sarah Mitchell, a Member of Parliament for New South Wales and former Minister for Education and Early Childhood. Sarah shares her own experience of early pregnancy loss, which ignited her passion for advocating for better support and policy change for families navigating fertility journeys.

This conversation delves into the emotional, societal, and political landscapes of reproductive health, miscarriage, and family building.

Sarah speaks candidly about her two miscarriages between her two daughters, including a devastating loss at 10 weeks, which was only discovered at a routine appointment. She discusses the acute feeling of grief—a feeling she wasn't able to label at the time but recognizes now.

Sam and Sarah explore the societal narrative that often minimizes early pregnancy loss, making women feel like they are not "grief worthy," especially if they already have children. Sarah reflects on feeling exposed and isolated going through her loss in a small country town and the burden of feeling she "shouldn't" be sad because she already had a daughter.

Sarah, now in opposition, is chairing a Parliamentary inquiry into fertility support in NSW. The broad scope includes:

 * Fertility education in schools.
   
 * Support for conditions like endometriosis (endo).
   
 * Addressing miscarriage and loss.
   
 * The IVF and surrogacy journey.
   
 * The goal is to move beyond the linear narrative of parenthood and create a more comprehensive support system.

If you are interested in reading more about the impact of geographical isolation on fertility and loss, you can find the Pink Elephants Not Just A Loss Report [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/resource/not-just-a-loss] on their website.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.


S2 E12: Grief, Policy and Inequity in Reproductive Support. 

This episode is the Somali language version of the interpreted English language discussion. At Pink Elephants we wanted to thank Hinda and the Africare community for their contribution to this podcast by providing them with this version of the conversation in Somali language. Thank you!

In this deeply moving episode, we are joined by Hinda and Zahra, two inspiring women from the East African community in Melbourne, Australia. Zahra, a registered nurse and midwife, works with East AfriCare, a program dedicated to supporting East African women, particularly those who are vulnerable, new to the country, and facing language and educational barriers, through the experience of miscarriage. Hinda bravely shares her personal story of pregnancy loss and the immense challenges she faced, highlighting the critical need for more culturally sensitive support systems.

This conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked logistical and emotional burdens of miscarriage, especially for women with other young children and limited financial resources. We explore the profound statement that "healing is a privilege" and discuss the cultural nuances and taboos surrounding early pregnancy loss within East African communities, particularly Somali backgrounds.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

For more details on AfriCare and their services you can find them here: AfriCare Community Services [https://www.africarevic.org.au/]

S2: E11: Cultural Perspectives on Loss: Exploring how different cultures acknowledge, grieve, or silence early pregnancy loss. Somali Language

In this deeply moving episode, we are joined by Hinda and Zahra, two inspiring women from the East African community in Melbourne, Australia. Zahra, a registered nurse and midwife, works with East AfriCare, a program dedicated to supporting East African women, particularly those who are vulnerable, new to the country, and facing language and educational barriers, through the experience of miscarriage. Hinda bravely shares her personal story of pregnancy loss and the immense challenges she faced, highlighting the critical need for more culturally sensitive support systems.

This conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked logistical and emotional burdens of miscarriage, especially for women with other young children and limited financial resources. We explore the profound statement that "healing is a privilege" and discuss the cultural nuances and taboos surrounding early pregnancy loss within East African communities, particularly Somali backgrounds.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

For more details on Africare and their services you can find them here: Africare Community Services [https://www.africarevic.org.au/]

S2: E10: Cultural Perspectives on Loss: Exploring how different cultures acknowledge, grieve, or silence early pregnancy loss.

Show notes: S2 E10: Reproductive Justice: Why Miscarriage Care Must Centre Marginalized Voices

In this episode, Sam chats with the founder and executive director of the Early Pregnancy Loss Coalition (EPLC), Isy Oderberg who shares her personal journey through seven pregnancy losses which ultimately inspired her to write a book.

A key focus of the discussion is the central role of Reproductive Justice, a concept that combines reproductive health with social justice. Isy stresses that the work must embed diversity and be driven by centring marginalized people who experience compounded layers of disadvantage (intersectional disadvantage).

The conversation highlights that quality care extends beyond medical treatment and requires health providers and support services to recognize and allow for the trauma experienced by marginalized groups.

Despite the historical oversight of the sector, Sam and Isy agree on their immense hope due to recent successes and ongoing momentum:

 * Policy Wins: The sector successfully advocated for and achieved the first ever dedicated miscarriage funding from the Australian government.
 * Clinical Guidelines: They worked with RANZCOG to support the development and release of clinical guidelines for early pregnancy loss, a massive win that provides doctors with a standard for care.
 * Future Research: The ultimate goal is to get medical research funded to identify new treatable factors in the recurrent miscarriage space, giving people more options and reducing the overall number of losses.

Isy concludes that the miscarriage sector acts as a "canary in the coal mine," offering broad lessons for improving how society talks about grief and addressing medical misogyny more generally. She believes the 1 in 4 statistic is a downplay and that every person will be touched by loss in some way.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

S2: E9:  Reproductive Justice: Why Miscarriage Care Must Center Marginalized Voices

In this episode, host Stacey welcomes Lauren Sun, Pink Elephants' Peer Support Coordinator, to discuss the profound impact of peer support and the crucial need for caring for the carers.

Lauren openly shares her personal history of loss, which includes three miscarriages, an ectopic pregnancy that required emergency surgery, and a vanishing twin that resulted in the birth of her son, Marcus. She notes that her losses were often so rushed and medical—especially the ectopic pregnancy and the twin loss—that she didn't have time to fully process the grief at the moment, only to have it resurface years later.

Lauren found her way to Pink Elephants five years after her last loss, feeling she had reached a point of healing where she could give back. She describes the first peer support chat as "simple" and "empowering," realizing the profound therapeutic power of acknowledgement and validation—the client only wanted to be heard and told, "I'm really sorry."

Lauren defines peer support as being there to simply hear you and validate your feelings, offering a message of hope: "It will be okay." It differs from clinical support by avoiding jargon and advice; the core service is listening and sitting with you in your pain.

She notes that peer support often acts as a frontline service, seeing people in moments of acute emotional pain, whether they are straight out of the hospital, experiencing an anniversary, or struggling with complicated emotions like being both sad for themselves and happy for a pregnant friend.

As the Peer Support Coordinator, Lauren also manages a team of lived-experience volunteers, a role she takes on by "caring for the carers." She conducts check-ins, covers shifts, and facilitates a supportive WhatsApp group, ensuring the team's capacity to continue their demanding frontline work. She believes this support system gives her own losses meaning.

Lauren shares that her relationship with grief has evolved from fear and avoidance to acceptance. She now sees grief as a normal part of life, often fitting in her pocket, but occasionally growing "huge." Her advice for dealing with a sudden onset of intense pain years after a loss is to "let it roll over you." Allow the sadness and feel the feelings, because pushing it away will only make it pop up at worse times.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on Instagram.

Pink Elephants thanks the Australian Government for their support in funding this podcast series under the Miscarriage Support grant.

S2: E8: Stepping Past the Clinical: The Healing Power of Peer Support and Caring for the Carers

In this episode, our host Stacey has a powerful conversation with comedian Sashi Perera, who shares her journey through four miscarriages and a taxing course of fertility treatments.

Sashi immediately addresses the societal pressure to be "sad all the time" when experiencing loss, noting that she rejects the equation that anything less than a successful birth equals failure. As a comedian, she has used her writing and performance as a vital outlet to take control of her narrative and process her grief through a lens of dark humour.

The first miscarriage was the hardest, as Sashi and her partner—a private person—had to figure out a balanced way to grieve. Sashi realized the silence and shame would crush her, making it necessary to share her story openly, an action her partner bravely supported.

Sashi details the relentless medical advice to "go again," despite her successful conception and repeated losses. A turning point came after her third miscarriage when the Red Cross told her she couldn't donate blood for six months to allow her body to recover. This was the first time a medical entity validated her need for rest.

After the fourth loss and recognizing that the hormone injections had severely affected her mental health and equilibrium, Sashi and her partner made a conscious, courageous decision to hit the brakes on the IVF process. This allowed her to prioritize her health and confront the challenging question: "How can we still find joy if this doesn't happen for us?"

Sashi emphasizes that deciding to stop is a conscious, personal choice. She advises looking at the total cost—financial, physical, relational, and mental—and making peace with the reality that life will still be okay. This decision-making process allows her to hold the steering wheel of her life again, protecting herself with emotional "cotton wool" (such as skipping baby showers) and giving herself protected space to grieve.

You can find Sashi on Instagram here: @sashbomb .

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

Pink Elephants thanks the Australian Government for their support in funding this podcast series under the Miscarriage Support grant.

S2 E7: Hitting the Brakes: Reclaiming Joy and Self-Worth After the Fertility Race

In this vital episode, the host speaks with two pillars of the Pink Elephants Support Network—Chairperson Katrina Groshinsky and Board Director Emma Costello—to discuss the organization's journey from breaking the silence to achieving systemic change.

Katrina and Emma reflect on how Pink Elephants has shifted its focus from simply talking about miscarriage to ensuring every woman in Australia who suffers loss, along with her family, receives evidence-based support and acknowledgement.

Emma details the hard-fought advocacy work, noting that a key challenge was cutting through government noise to make the message heard. The breakthrough came with the federal government's announcement of a $9.5 million miscarriage package in 2025—a phenomenal success that represents overdue recognition for the community. She emphasizes that the system needs to change so that any woman experiencing loss—whether with a GP, in an ED, or a hospital—is met with the right information, resources, and, crucially, the right tone.

Katrina highlights the critical win of Leave for Loss legislation (September 2021), which granted women and their partners the right to take time to grieve, acknowledging the devastating mental health and productivity issues caused by returning to work too quickly.

While the government funding is "very welcome and needed," it is tied to specific programs (tailored digital support, peer support, and advocacy). Both leaders stress that it doesn't cover the broader advocacy work, noting an 85% oversubscription to services, which tragically forces them to turn women away.

The conversation concludes with a shared vision of hope for the future. Their goals include:

 * A "virtual circle of support" around every woman experiencing loss.
 * Achieving better data collection through a question on the census, believing that "what gets counted, gets funded."
 * Ensuring universal support and referral for all women, regardless of location or cultural background, affirming that support is a fundamental human right.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on instagram.

S2 E6: Moving Beyond the Silence: Advocacy, Funding, and the Future of Loss Support

In this crucial episode, our hosts are joined by Pink Elephants Service Delivery Manager Sophie Porter to dissect the traumatic reality of the "silence of scans" and the broken models of care for early pregnancy loss, drawing on both her research and lived experience.

Sophie shares that literature and community stories clearly show that when women's needs are unmet at the point of care, their grief is compounded, often leading to long-term anxiety, depression, and PTSD. The current system frequently routes women to Emergency Departments, forcing them to wait for hours—often next to patients with minor injuries—because their loss is classified as "non-urgent." This experience strips them of dignity and is exacerbated by a lack of sensitive communication.

The "profound silence" often begins during the scan, where the sonographer’s blank face delivers the devastating news without words. This silence reverberates, leaving women to advocate for themselves in a system that fails to meet their basic needs. This deficient care is not limited to public hospitals; it is also reported in fertility clinics and is particularly severe in rural and remote settings, where a lack of services strips women of autonomy and may expose them to inappropriate settings like maternity wards.

Sophie and the host agree that the issue is systemic—a failure of public health to unite physical and mental well-being—and is no longer acceptable. The urgent change needed is the implementation of new policy guidelines and comprehensive, mandated training in sensitive communication for all health professionals, from receptionists to GPs. The status quo is not good enough.

EARLY PREGNANCY LOSS SUPPORT
If you or someone you know has experienced miscarriage or early pregnancy loss, please know you are not alone.

 * For crisis support, please call Lifeline - 13 11 14.
 * Access all our support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/65/find-support]
 * Connect through Live Chat with Peer Support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/75/peer-support-live-chat]
 * Join Online Communities [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/page/74/peer-support-online-communities]
 * Call out Pregnancy Loss helpline delivered by PANDA [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/helpline]
 * Join the Circle of support [https://www.pinkelephants.org.au/the-circle]
 * Follow @pinkelephantssupport [https://www.instagram.com/pinkelephantssupport] on Instagram.

STACEY JUNE LEWIS
You can follow our host Stacey on her personal Instagram [https://www.instagram.com/staceyjune/] account where she shares some of her lived experience.

Pink Elephants thanks the Australian Government for their support in funding this podcast series under the Miscarriage Support grant.

S2: E5: The Silence of Scans: Why the Healthcare System Fails Women After Pregnancy Loss

In this podcast, hosts Sam Payne, CEO and Co-Founder of Pink Elephants, and Stacey June Lewis, a seasoned counsellor, psychotherapist, and broadcaster, create a safe space for everyday Australians to share their stories of pregnancy loss. Their conversations provide a platform to candidly discuss many women’s experiences, helping to dismantle the layers of shame, blame, and stigma that frequently surround miscarriage and early pregnancy loss.

The Miscarriage Rebellion strives to break down societal taboos surrounding pregnancy loss, offering empathy and validation to those who have suffered this heartbreaking experience. Join them in these raw and honest conversations, as they embark on a mission to create a more supportive and empathetic world for those affected by pregnancy loss. The pervasive silence ends here.

The Miscarriage Rebellion

his podcast is for fellow grieving families who have suffered pregnancy loss - miscarriage, stillbirth or neonatal death. The mission of this podcast is to assist you to come through this cruel twist of fate, with as much psychological fortitude, compassion for yourself and connection with others as possible, using wisdom, knowledge and insights sourced from interviewing experts and specialists in the fields commonly accessed by grieving mothers. Sharing these little gems will allow you to navigate the long journey ahead. Don’t let the darkness swallow you, don’t let yourself do this alone.

Samantha Payne

Shows