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Dr. Mona Delahooke on Her Traumatic Brain Injury, Coma, and the Power of Co-Regulation in Healing
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In this episode of Wired for Connection, host Travis Goodman speaks with Dr. Mona Delahooke and her husband Scott, for a deeply personal conversation about her traumatic brain injury, coma, and recovery.
Mona is a clinical psychologist known for her brain-body approach to behavior, parenting, and neurodiversity, and the author of Beyond Behaviors and Brain-Body Parenting.
We explore the role of co-regulation, the power of a familiar voice, how safety and relationships support growth and restoration, and how polyvagal principles shaped the way Scott and their family showed up in the hospital room. This episode brings Polyvagal Theory out of the abstract and into the practical, showcased in the Delahooke family's approach.
We also talk about Mona’s work with children, parents, and neurodivergent families, including her brain-body lens on behavior, the importance of relational safety, and what “polyvagal parenting” looks like in everyday life.
Dr. Delahooke is a Course Partner with the Polyvagal Institute, offering "A Paradigm Shift in Understanding Children's Behavior," with Dr. Stephen Porges. Learn more about that offering here.
CONNECT WITH Polyvagal Institute:
WEB: www.polyvagalinstitute.org
Instagram: @polyvagalinstitute
LinkedIn: polyvagal-institute
Email: community@polyvagal.org
CONNECT WITH Travis Goodman:
Web: travisgoodmanlmft.com
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Transcript
Introduction of Guests and Background
00:00:00
Speaker
You could not design a study that would be the end of one patient hooked up to millions of dollars of equipment to see my vagal tone relax in real time at the hearing of my beloved's calm voice telling me all these sounds you're hearing are going to keep you safe welcome back to wired for connection a polyvagal podcast i am your host my name is travis goodman i'm a licensed therapist and a mind body coach and today i am joined by dr mona delahook who's a registered clinical psychologist with over 30 years with working with families and their children
00:00:45
Speaker
She is also a member of the American Psychological Association and a retired faculty member of the Perfectum Foundation, which is an organization dedicated to supporting neurodivergent families, their children, adolescents and adults. She is the author of the award winning book Beyond Behaviors, using brain science and compassion to understand and solve children's behavioral challenges and brain body parenting.
00:01:11
Speaker
how to stop managing behaviors and start raising joyful, resilient kids. She is a frequent speaker, trainer, and consultant to parents, organizations, schools, and public agencies. She lives and works in the Los Angeles area with her husband, Scott Delahook.
Mona's Brain Injury Journey Begins
00:01:27
Speaker
While we know her from her clinical and professional work, we are joined not only by Mona herself today, but her husband Scott, as they share this rare glimpse into a story of recovery, a story of healing from a traumatic brain injury, and a story of how they found practical application of polyvagal theory.
00:01:48
Speaker
Mona, Scott, um first of all, I just want to welcome you guys to Wired for Connection ah show and podcast. And just before we jump in, how are you guys doing right now? are you feeling?
00:01:59
Speaker
How are things? Things are... Well, at this moment, very excited to be be here with you, Travis. Thank you so much for having us on. And in general, I would say I'm exuberant. I'm just so excited to be alive and to be be here to be able to tell a story about how how lucky we are to know... to know um that our bodies can heal even when it seems like they're giving up
00:02:33
Speaker
Thank you for having us on too. Yeah. I'm glad to have both of you on actually. Thanks. It's such a, I think a rich experience for all of us to listen and to to share in this together as a community. And I think it speaks to a core tenant of the theory itself of this co-regulation piece that really, i think comes alive in your story um to say the least.
00:02:56
Speaker
um And so Mona, could you share and Scott share a bit about kind of what happened to this experience and how it all began? This was over two and a half years ago in 2023.
00:03:09
Speaker
we we had ah i had a very busy year. We were traveling across the States. We had come back from an early intervention conference in Italy and Rome.
00:03:23
Speaker
It was a busy, wonderful, fabulous year. And out of the blue, um i i added i felt something strange in my feet.
00:03:37
Speaker
And that unfortunately, that's all I remember is something felt weird. I couldn't feel my feet. And the next thing I knew, i just went in and tried to find Scott. And the next thing I knew, He found me. So he heard something.
00:03:54
Speaker
So
The Collapse and Immediate Response
00:03:55
Speaker
what did you hear? Fortunately, I was at home and I i heard kind of a strange sound. This is midday. um thought maybe Mona bumped into a chair or something, but then there was no movement and it just didn't, something inside me said something was wrong. So I, I went and found her face down, passed out on, on one of the floors in our house. And, um,
00:04:19
Speaker
Quickly realized that something very serious happened and fortunately was able to get the paramedics here very quickly and transport her to the Arcadia USC hospital, which is only about 10 minutes away.
00:04:35
Speaker
And thinking that maybe she just had ah one of those episodes, you know, a little vasovagal response to something or maybe some food poisoning, but it turned out that she had a ruptured brain aneurysm.
00:04:49
Speaker
And she went from acting completely normal in the morning to collapsing very quickly. And that's unfortunately one of the things that that happens with with ruptured aneurysm. So...
00:05:03
Speaker
um It took about 48 hours and we actually had to transport her down to a special surgery department at Keck USC and they did open brain surgery and put a clip in and were able to stop the bleeding and that was kind of the beginning.
00:05:19
Speaker
of the journey because there is all kinds of chaotic things that happens in the brain when there's bleeding. The brain doesn't do well with blood.
00:05:32
Speaker
It tends to swell and when it swells, it tends to tends to close off arteries that are, you know, sending nutrients to the other parts of the brain. And that's the kind of stroke an aneurysm burst is. It's different than a blood clot that comes from another part of the body.
00:05:50
Speaker
A ruptured aneurysm, actually the damage, that the risk of damage happens starting about five days after the bleed and then goes for another 15 days while the brain is trying to process the
Coma and Critical Recovery Phase
00:06:07
Speaker
blood. And there were just many, many scary touch and go moments over that 15 days or so.
00:06:16
Speaker
And those days ended up in a coma. Ultimately, yeah, lasted quite a while. Yeah. Coming out of surgery, ultimately, she was she was in a coma and they kept her in a coma for about five or six weeks to um to keep her brain quiet so that her brain didn't need too much blood.
00:06:38
Speaker
So they were working on the demand side of the brain to kind of make it quiet. And then they were pushing medication to try and force the blood through these these narrowing arteries.
00:06:50
Speaker
Well, finally, the blood had worked its way out of the brain tissue and those arteries could relax and open back up. but they they were It was an incredible team at Keck that facilitated her, the protection of her brain.
00:07:09
Speaker
It was quite remarkable. Critical condition. Yeah. Definition of critical condition. Yeah. And I'm wondering, even talking about it right now, what's coming up for you guys, even just for recollecting and sharing this? What's...
00:07:22
Speaker
um i have a I have a body reaction, like I can tell. Let's see, me check my watch. I can feel my heart rate going up.
00:07:35
Speaker
No, actually, not too bad. It's only 85. We're co-regulating. Yes, we're co-regulating. you You make me feel calm, Travis. That's where I need to do this podcast. So I'm feeling actually quite good. Well, good. well got regulation heart rate Yeah, I got to check mine too. I got mine. I got to look at my phone though. do Yeah, I got to whoop. So I can't see it on screen. I got to look at the actual app. But yeah.
00:08:11
Speaker
Yeah, that the you know, it's make you're sensing that that physiological shift and even feeling safety. of Okay, if you felt something safe enough to come to have us dialogue. Yes, I did.
00:08:23
Speaker
With me and with your partner. yes. 45 years. With my with my beloved. My beloved. Even better. I like that word more than partner. My beloved.
00:08:34
Speaker
Without whom I would surely not be here. one Both in the moments after it happened and also through the almost nearly fatal coma, which they came out and told him and my daughters that it didn't look like I was going make it.
00:08:56
Speaker
So he is my, he is my, um i I say co-regulator is um we very mild way of putting it. Yes. He helped wake me up from a very deep, deep coma through, through um understanding that how the nervous system works in terms of growth, healing and restoration.
00:09:28
Speaker
So, yeah. Yeah. Really. it sounds like that, um, I think for a lot of us that could remain a, and those that are listening to this whole theory of polyvacal theory and healing, I think that idea of health, growth, and restoration can, for some, be quite conceptual. And I'm not saying that it's a negative thing, but I think it can remain as this kind of book theory science-y knowledge of, okay, there's this idea behind health growth and restoration. okay that's what Ventral is and co-regulation. And so I get the concept and it makes sense from this theoretical standpoint. And I'm learning this you know new theory and how I apply it, whether I'm a coach or a therapist or a speaker, author, you know whatever I do.
00:10:11
Speaker
But the shift here for for you both, and even specifically for Scott, I love to hear from you, Scott, is that it shifted from something that was maybe even felt before to varying degrees. But in this case,
00:10:23
Speaker
my guess is this really was reality of health growth and restoration. So for you, Scott, I'm wondering, how did you like, was this something you thought about bringing into the room is the coma? Was it just something naturally you were doing? I guess, could you speak about that for us to bring us in that
Support System and Emotional Resilience
00:10:39
Speaker
space?
00:10:39
Speaker
I appreciate the question. As a, as a side note, Mona has some beautiful colleagues that stepped up when this happened. There was a teammon one team one and a team Mona two, and they were part of team Mona two. And they, the colleagues, OT, PT, speech and language, they met every Saturday morning and talked amongst themselves and then brought my daughters, my three daughters and I into the room with them and gave us suggestions about what we could do to help start the reconnection process because in that brain bleed the brain becomes so chaotic connection with the body is it's severed and so they gave us wonderful helpful tips as to
00:11:34
Speaker
real hands-on experiential ways to help Mona's brain and body reconnect. And the medical staff was like, who are these people?
00:11:46
Speaker
Who are these weirdos coming in here and telling us to play soft music and to and to and to lovingly touch my toes? Who are these people?
00:11:59
Speaker
wanted But they didn't. Mona did not open her eyes, did not move a muscle, did not move a finger for five or six weeks. Wow. She was.
00:12:09
Speaker
So we had no feedback that we would be used to with with a partner, with a loved one. Yeah. You know, how does this feel? Can you let me know how you're feeling? We had the only thing we had were all of these medical.
00:12:25
Speaker
machines surrounding Mona, looking at respiration and blood pressure, all, and all of them had their own alarms. So something was out of whack.
00:12:36
Speaker
So there was this constant noise taking place. I obviously, Mona and I have, um, have been together for decades and I have learned about her nervous system. She shared it with me a,
00:12:51
Speaker
She's written about, you know, co-regulation, the nervous system, fight or flight response. But she has always been very uniquely um aware of sounds and sights and things that um can be she feels powerfully.
00:13:10
Speaker
And her neuroception, her perception of potential danger, it it's ah it's pretty pretty sensitive. Let's just say I was auditorily overreacting. And so what did you do?
00:13:25
Speaker
You helped me with that. So day two or three in the ICU, ah with all of the commotion and it was dysregulating to me, but I knew that Mona's body was sensing danger because of all the alarms from all of these machines. And so I said to her several times a day for day after day, week after week, Mona, I want you to, when you hear these sounds around you, I want you to position them not as signs of danger or threat, but as signs of safety.
00:14:02
Speaker
All of these alarms, all of these noises are noises of protection. They are there to keep you safe. And I could look at the monitors as I would say some of these things. yeah And there would be there would be a lessening of the of the heart rate.
00:14:20
Speaker
There would be you know the blood pressure. All of those things. Heart rate variability. you could never You could not design a study that would be the N of one patient hooked up to millions of dollars of equipment to see my vagal tone relax in real time at the at the at the hearing of my beloved's calm voice telling me all these sounds you're hearing are going to keep you safe.
00:14:56
Speaker
Wow. In a nervous system that was startling and tachycardia with all the sounds when they're trying whether where you're life support and And hearing all those bells and whistles go off. So Scott knew he actually took a polyvagal approach without knowing it because he knows me.
00:15:22
Speaker
Yeah. And loves me. That's evident. um and And I'm wondering, and and I'm curious, your experience of that, Mona, that yeah in that If at all, or what you recollect, like in those whether in the coma or coming out of feeling that, was there something that you experienced? I mean, again, this is and just this is really just curious. like what what was What was that like? I know you said you saw your feet and you looked you fell down. You don't remember, but was there anything else you experienced in that phase, in that season of...
00:15:57
Speaker
connection if at all or was it just purely the heartbeat that we saw that scott saw the movement question it's a really really good question travis because there's very little known about what people experience in comas yeah very little when my father was in a coma the doctors told us that he couldn't hear anything but I had periods of time when I actually could hear things and understand them. wow
00:16:28
Speaker
But I could not respond. Wow. Some of the times were kind of funny where I would hear people telling a story and inside i'm like, wait, you forgot a detail. That's not the right story. And I tried to wake myself up to tell them, no, you got the detail wrong. school i remember periods of of <unk> of consciousness that I was locked into my body.
Mona's Coma Experience and Perceptions
00:16:59
Speaker
Wow. And I also should say that I had many more periods of feeling extremely safe and held and not alone.
00:17:13
Speaker
Hmm. one would kind categorize that in a spiritual realm or just maybe it was the types of medications that they had me on to keep me asleep because i'm very sensitive to medications yeah i felt very i felt very warm and comfortable and safe and i i believe that the um The transfer ah of our nervous systems is a real thing. I do believe that I knew Scott and my daughters were there.
00:17:48
Speaker
My nervous system, as we, I guess, as we can say, neuroceptive safety, as it did from people who who I neuroceptive threat.
00:18:01
Speaker
Apparently, there was one or two people who poked and prodded me that I would, when they came in, even though I was in a coma, I turned away from them.
00:18:13
Speaker
I turned my body away. Is that right? That particular, so it was a neurologist. It was not at the- You don't have to say that. It was at a different hospital. names. Name stayed. No names. Mona had begun to wake up and have little bits of movement.
00:18:29
Speaker
Wow. and But there was no speech. She had to learn to swallow, to talk. every start moving her body, um write, read. I mean, everything was almost like going from a newborn to having to relearn all of those skills.
00:18:46
Speaker
ah But there was a particular doctor who... every time he came in she, with all of her strength, would turn away from him. Because his voice, his his mannerism, his lack of prosody, his he was just ah sandpaper.
00:19:08
Speaker
So somehow I was sensing safety and threat in a coma. yeah I would love to know what Steve thinks about that. Yeah. Well, and when you felt it and then so Scott, you saw it happen. So that, I mean, that's...
00:19:24
Speaker
It was crazy. Yeah, fascinating. And you remember like you remember moments like something felt off. like You felt the shift even in this state of like your mind. It's like your mind was aware about your nervous system, but your body was like didn't it didn't wasn't functioning. It was almost imagining you're kind of stuck behind a wall or like underwater or something. and like ah But you felt it, though. You still experienced it. And then your body actually did react, which is amazing.
00:19:48
Speaker
Well, here's here was one of the crazy moments in a in a journey of many crazy moments. There would be little tasks that she had begun to be able to do, lift a finger or blink.
00:20:02
Speaker
And when he came in the room and asked her to do those things, she didn't do any of them. The minute he left... We asked the same questions and she did them all.
00:20:15
Speaker
Oh my God. That's how we knew this guy was not, this doctor was not a good fit. Yeah. She went to a threat response, his sympathetic surge.
00:20:26
Speaker
And then we brought her kind of, when he left, brought her back and we went through the same drill and she responded to us. Yeah. And then you recorded it to show him later. oh you did? and he still didn't believe it. He didn't? Yeah.
00:20:44
Speaker
And wondering, I mean, this we're on the the topic of this, is that the the importance of safety and healing. The centrality of... The centrality. The centrality of safety in healing.
00:20:58
Speaker
Physical healing, yeah mental healing, emotional healing. Yeah. and And specifically the safety in relationships, like that's, that's the key is safety in relationships. Yes.
00:21:11
Speaker
Yes. And we give lip service to that phrase. Very um marketable phrase, but I want people to know that in education, in mental health, in, in physical health,
00:21:30
Speaker
that this relational safety isn't just a feel-good concept. It's an embodied experience. And the body heals when it feels safe.
00:21:44
Speaker
And it's if yeah if anybody has a member who is struggling with an illness or a disorder and they're not getting better, it's not because...
00:21:57
Speaker
you aren't trying hard enough. It's not because necessarily because they don't feel safe. We just want to make sure people understand that there are so many unique millions of millions of factors that happen when someone gets very, very ill like I did.
00:22:17
Speaker
And it could have very easily worked out that I did not survive. Right. and And thank you for saying that because you're right. There's plenty of people that feel safe. Yes. that pass on.
00:22:28
Speaker
That's right. But still feel safe. And I've heard many stories of of that where there's still a sense of peace that comes yes in safe relationship, even if their body passes on.
00:22:40
Speaker
Correct. But there' that I think that safety, that relationship component is, is I think the thread um And why some pass on, why some fight, you know I think that's one of those questions, a personally I don't know if i ever have an x answer for I think that's a life question of why some,
The Role of Safe Relationships in Healing
00:22:55
Speaker
why not others. But the human safety connection is huge of that. I feel there's people with me.
00:23:01
Speaker
yes And I feel that and I sense that and I not this think it's not just lip service like you said, but it's it's viscerally, physiologically, solely true. 100%. And that even Scott telling you, whispering these sounds or sounds of safety or i think touching your toes. And is there anything, I mean, obviously you had you, I I'm sure the grandkids came in. So anything else that was just like, yeah, we just did this.
00:23:28
Speaker
Even though we didn't get feedback, we saw the monitor, so we just kept showing up. Anything else that you that you were doing, Scott, that was just kind of very practical, like boots on the ground, this is what we did? i would say that the the main thing that he did was was understand that...
00:23:47
Speaker
the portal is other sensory systems. So they had things like essential oils brought to my nose. um Beautiful, my favorite classical music playing in the background. And what is that? What's the favorite classical music or piece? Oh, it was an Italian composer, Vivaldi. Vivaldi, yeah. Four Seasons. Yeah. It was like my favorite classical piece and they had it playing on...
00:24:17
Speaker
Well, I think all day and all night. Constantly. Constantly. Wow. So the sensory systems were the portal. And then massaging my feet, my hands.
00:24:30
Speaker
um You couldn't massage my head because was filled with wires. could kiss it. Yes. And the first time you knew i was I was there was when you kissed me and I kissed back. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:24:43
Speaker
Wow. when What was that moment like or when did that occur? that That was, so she had emerged from the deepest part of the coma. um There was, in her open eyes, sometimes we weren't sure if she was seeing us clearly or not.
00:25:01
Speaker
Okay. But was responding to certain requests for for movement. And I just bent down. at a hot And we have it on camera, actually. It's beautiful.
00:25:14
Speaker
And I just looked in her face and I said, I'm going to come and kiss you. And for weeks and weeks and weeks and months had not had a reciprocation like that.
00:25:25
Speaker
but she puckered her lips as I came in. and it was just like, oh, you know, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. It was just one of those moments of affirmation that was spectacular.
00:25:37
Speaker
And do you remember that moment, Mona? Do you remember that? I do. oh I do. It was, oh yes. Talking about an oh automatic body memory was like his kiss was was like home, the it was home.
00:25:57
Speaker
I'm gonna make it, I'm gonna be okay. That's how, yeah. I'm gonna make it. I do have a couple of things. One of the things that broke my heart in the in the ICU, neuro ICU ward was going kind of sometimes walking the halls and seeing in the rooms there were loved ones around a patient.
00:26:18
Speaker
But they were frozen. They didn't, there was no interaction. There was no yeah dialogue. And I thought, and I knew what we were doing with Mona and I thought,
00:26:30
Speaker
regardless of the patient outcome, there can still be a presence, a body felt presence by the patient and that connection with the caregivers that, that transcends speaking or, or, you know, um, other ways of communication.
00:26:51
Speaker
But one of the things that I would do to Mona every, with Mona every day is I would talk to her, um assuming that she could hear me, assuming competency and, and let her know that the the blood was throughout her, her brain, but she had a shunt in that was allowing the excess fluid to drain out and to just allow the brain tissue to release all of the blood that was, was invading it and let it,
00:27:22
Speaker
kind of go up into the spinal fluid and out the drain. And it was just a constant, almost like a warm breeze coming across her brain and, and the material in the blood that was maybe causing inflammation.
00:27:33
Speaker
Let that just release, let it go, let it go in and let the the beautiful a wave of of fluid in her brain, just take it away.
00:27:44
Speaker
hmm. Or I would, the girls and I would touch um throughout the day, like her toes and narrate to her which toes we were touching. And we would move up the limbs or we do that with the hands to the shoulders.
00:28:00
Speaker
I would kiss her on her chin and tell her that's where I'm kissing on her nose, forehead, you know, kiss her ears. And it was this constant, slow mapping, remapping process.
00:28:13
Speaker
Wow. That um I the the way. her curve of recovery once her body emerged from the deep coma was just breathtaking. It was almost every day she was reacquiring ah new little skills, movements of of a whole hand instead of a finger or lifting an arm.
00:28:38
Speaker
um And so I think that early mapping, that the presence of each of us, yeah but also the the verbal communication, assuming the cognition was coming back, but but the actual touch. Okay, these pathways used to work really well.
00:28:57
Speaker
Let's reintroduce them. And that was powerful. One other story I remember that was powerful she was having labored breathing and there was a respirator there that was constantly, that the sirens were going off. and And so they were constantly trying to make sure there was plenty of oxygen.
00:29:19
Speaker
She had a ventilator for a while and then a tracheotomy. And i remember, you know, the goal was to get her off of all of those long-term. So I put my hand on her diaphragm.
00:29:32
Speaker
I remember that. about Oh, you do? I do. I remember that. I can't believe I remember that. I would say, we really need you to start using your entire torso to breathe, not just upper chest breathing. So I said, I want you to push out and imagine air flowing into your lungs and then then press in and expel it. And so I would hold my hand there and I would push in gently and then and then release and narrate to her this
00:30:05
Speaker
I did that probably kept on saying, push my hand out, right? Like his hand on my lower diaphragm. Wow. It took maybe eight to 10 days of doing this off and on during the day with no response, nothing on the monitors.
00:30:23
Speaker
And then one day I came in and I did it again and she pushed out my hand in a deep coma. She pushed out my hand and I looked at the monitors and her lung capacity went up 50%. Oh my gosh. And I said, okay, push it push it in.
00:30:39
Speaker
And then she pushed it in and the exhale was fantastic. And I said, I could see it. You're doing this, you're responding. And there was she was asleep, there was nothing else move, just the diaphragm moving in and out to my touch of my voice.
00:30:56
Speaker
After a few of these breaths, I took my hand away and she stopped. And I said, OK, sweetheart, you're getting lazy. i Went back in and we did it again. And then she pushed it out and then she pulled it back in.
00:31:10
Speaker
And the monitors once again showed this shift. So I was sobbing because it was the very. and a breath Yeah, it was the very first time that I had a direct sense that she was there.
00:31:24
Speaker
Yeah. Right. In a way, the most direct feedback you could have received was that. Yeah. And you saw it. You left your hand. It stopped. and You put it back. And then she was responding. And you remember that, Mona.
00:31:37
Speaker
you says your room prison I remember the feeling of a hand. like Oh, no, not this hand again. This beautiful, warm hand. What is he asking me to do?
00:31:48
Speaker
And so the way I connected it was sense sensing, okay, push out. I told myself, push his hand out. And then I i got a few muscles working down there.
00:32:06
Speaker
And when he said, yes, yes, yes, then I did it some more. But it was sensory. Yeah. Like it was very minute, very internal.
00:32:18
Speaker
And i I wish that doctors and nurses knew When somebody is struggling and they're not able to communicate, similar to some of the non-speaking clients that I had when i was when i before the aneurysm, that we would ask them to do something.
00:32:43
Speaker
and Or so at school, the teachers would say, well, they're nonverbal. That means they're non. But just because someone is not speaking doesn't mean that they're not thinking.
00:32:55
Speaker
That's an important message for us to learn, I think, from my experience.
Misconceptions About Non-Verbal Comprehension
00:33:00
Speaker
Yeah. No, you're right. Just because someone's not speaking doesn't mean they're not thinking or not it doesn't mean they're not comprehending.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yes. Not comprehending. Right. Yeah, that's a major shift from your experience and as been now as educating now. And that's it and I definitely want to go there as far as what now. But before we go there, I'm also I'm also genuinely curious and I'm sure other people might be thinking this. I know I'm thinking this is Scott or Mona or both.
00:33:29
Speaker
And, know, I'm assuming here, so I could be wrong, but I'm assuming there's a moment, Scott, when there is a sense of like overwhelm or fight or flight or shutdown or freeze. So if there was, you're nodding. So I would assume that yes. So how did you navigate that shift from like, okay, I'm overwhelmed as a husband, as a partner, as like.
00:33:48
Speaker
Yes. I'm feeling the weight of this. So what anchored you? How did you shift States or to get into more of that venture? Like, can you give a story or share something, some insight there? because i think that's important.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's a, such an important question. For me, my faith journey ah as a Christian, i um I leaned in very heavily do the love, the prayers, the encouragement from faith disciplines all over the world.
00:34:23
Speaker
And even from some of my my dear atheist friends who'd never prayed before, but said they were on their knees asking, asking for support. And it was like the room was filled constantly with that love, those, those intentional, uh, connections of, of prayer.
00:34:44
Speaker
yeah Um, I had a, I had a real moment, a very powerful moment when I was alone in the very darkest of this, about two weeks in where I just was in a dark living room and standing up and just crying out and saying, God, what do you want from me? What are you?
00:35:06
Speaker
I was we were stretched, my daughters and I, beyond belief. And I just was sobbing and and calling out and saying, God, what is it I'm um supposed to learn here?
00:35:17
Speaker
And and after a few minutes of crying out, all of a sudden there was a presence I felt. And it was powerful. And I became very quiet.
00:35:30
Speaker
And there were three words that I heard, not audible, but in my in my soul. And that was, I've got this. I've got this. Meaning I've got you. I've got Mona. I've got the girls.
00:35:46
Speaker
Only do what you can do and and release what is beyond your ability to do and to control, which is so hard. Wow. Because I just didn't want to lose I know.
00:36:02
Speaker
didn't want to lose you know So, ah but I also knew I couldn't maintain that level of vigilance. Yeah. Because it was in its own way killing me.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah. So I've stepped into those, that presence in those three words of I've got this. And so I use that to as my grounding, as my bedrock.
00:36:28
Speaker
Yeah. And I lean into those words even today. Yeah. wow
00:36:36
Speaker
I've got this. this Thank you for sharing that. um Because it is it's ah it stretches you to beyond physical ability.
00:36:47
Speaker
And this goes, I think, to take the theory of co-regulation beyond just our self, our body, is that there's a connection beyond that even... Dan Siegel spoken of this and his work interconnected and and other he the other philosophers and religious figures have talked about something beyond this body and you felt it from your friends that were not in the room feeling that you kind of did this motion like almost like a hug of like I'm being held by these other people that really care and could sense it and then a spiritual connection
00:37:19
Speaker
In this case, a Christian connection or ah even you know other religious connections, but this state, this, and here feeling the sense of I got this, that there's something helping shift out of an overwhelmed state to keep going.
00:37:32
Speaker
Yes. Because absolutely as humans, we're going to feel overwhelmed. mean I would, I was feeling, as you were sharing, I was feeling that weight in in a very small way. You in this room, in this dark room, just kind of crying out. And, and I know people listening to this that have gone through something traumatic or painful. ah It's a human question to ask. what What do I do? What, how, how do we do this? Right. Um,
00:37:58
Speaker
yeah And our nervous system is looking for something and
Faith and Support During Crisis
00:38:01
Speaker
then you feel it. And so relational community is massive that I heard for you. Like you felt that presence. And I was very, very blessed to have loving extended family, but also very close friends.
00:38:15
Speaker
I would at times just show up at their house in tears and it was, the doors opened and they held me, we all cried together, but then we broke some bread and just, you know, connected and caught up. So I would step into, into those relationships constantly too.
00:38:37
Speaker
Yeah. And that would fill you up enough to get back in there. It sounds like enough, enough going back to what we said, health, growth and restoration, enough recovery, if you will, to like,
00:38:48
Speaker
Yes. And I'm imagining it like being like in a, at war or like a boxing ring, something where there's the fight is still going. Yeah. But we have these pockets of, okay, I got a little bit of water enough to get back out there, or we have enough little rest to get back out there. There's a relational community here that while it's the war still going, I still have to fight. There's, I need this. And I get a feeling to go back out, a feeling to go back out. And it sounds like your friend's, Two, you could show up as you are, whatever you need.
00:39:17
Speaker
And they just, opened you said open door. Open door. It sounded to me like he would, and he has a very wide network of excellent friends. Yeah. More than I do. But he had he had infusions.
00:39:33
Speaker
It's like he'd go to one of these homes and then get an infusion. Wow. of of co-regulation. So it worked for the caregiver too. goes back to the power of human relationships yeah and how powerful we are for each other.
00:39:51
Speaker
yeah Kind of like medicine for each other. yeah Yeah, absolutely. I mean, this goes you're right. it' it was He got that infusion that would infuse you and then it would become this like, yes except for that one doctor. We won't talk about him. um mean I'm sure he was a great physician what he did as far as hopefully clinically.
00:40:11
Speaker
I'm making an assumption. Maybe bedside manner not so much. Yeah. We disregarded one of his recommendations, right? Okay. well Okay. Well, you know, you you win some, you lose some. And I'm sure with some, he's a great fit.
00:40:27
Speaker
um But the power of relationship and and something beyond even feeling that connection from a distant from a distance, but then also showing up and getting it, like the physical presence of being in the same room and breaking, of having a meal, shared meal, And then, too, all the touching with your kids and and and you with Mona, like the the the feet, the hand, everything was like there's a lot of physical, yeah somatic, just senses. a lot of embodiment. Yeah, a lot of it. yeah
00:40:59
Speaker
And you needing it, too, as the caretaker, big major caretaker in that moment. um And knowing that as a man, too, to speak to that, the strength in showing tears and asking for help.
00:41:12
Speaker
Yeah. Just to say that out loud, because I know there's still the man box that exists out there for a lot of men that like, i don't want to do that. I got to keep muscling through. Obviously, you're confident and strong enough in your own masculinity and and fatherhood to say, no, I need people and to ask for help. Definitely.
00:41:27
Speaker
That's true. That's true, Travis. that's Which then helped Mona, right? it it it its yes It created this cyclical, like positive cycle of love, connection, health, growth, and restoration. That was like a feeding.
00:41:41
Speaker
um That's what I'm hearing. Yeah. um And that was just the beginning. And then there was a long road. I mean, that was the that was six weeks. And then it was the the road of Houston. the harder harder work started, yeah. Yeah. And so what kept you going in that, Mona, for that harder work? Because you said you'd read, write, move. I mean, that's been the last two and a half years minus six weeks, right, give or take. So yeah what kept you going in these moments, Mona, for you to keep
Mona's Motivation and Drive to Recover
00:42:07
Speaker
fighting? Yeah.
00:42:08
Speaker
I think there is there was definitely a ah spiritual aspect of feeling not alone. But I also have I'm deeply in love with this this man here.
00:42:24
Speaker
And I kept on thinking, wait, is there is it possible that I might be dying? Then I thought, no, no, you can't die. We're having too much fun. I'm having too much fun with Scott. And my grandson was just born.
00:42:41
Speaker
Like, oh, I got to go see my baby. I've got to take care of him. I've got to hold him. And so that started this a awakening, with which I'm clearly still in.
00:42:57
Speaker
i mean, some of my faculties have come... Luckily, my cognition, I don't think my cognition was hurt harmed very much because I had very, very long conversations with myself in my head. desire to continue to.
00:43:14
Speaker
my my desire to continue playing with my granddaughter and my baby grandson and doing all the trips that Scott and I had planned to do after my second edition of one of my books was written. We had this big plan of all the things we wanted to do. So I think it all kind of came back to relationships.
00:43:42
Speaker
I wasn't ready to not to stop playing. m And that's one of the... Hallmarks of ventral vagal is play.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah. Let's complain too. And so that was in my mind as I went through really hard physical therapy to try to learn how to sit up, walk,
00:44:08
Speaker
talk, um you swallow, the horrible feeling of having of not knowing if if I was going to choke on my food or not.
00:44:21
Speaker
So the therapies, I'm so grateful and very aware the massive privilege I had based on our health health insurance that worked and a bunch of dedicated therapists put me back from an infancy state to a fully functioning adult who can drive.
00:44:45
Speaker
Wow. So when I, when I got my driver's license, that was amazing. Like I was 16 Yeah.
00:44:56
Speaker
Travis, I want to share one other kind of a polyvagal moment that came to mind. Yeah, please. Mona was still in a deep coma. ah And my, my middle daughter,
00:45:07
Speaker
did a couple of different things on on different days. um One, she did a meditation, ah guided meditation with Mona.
00:45:19
Speaker
And um with with touch, with her voice, she's an MFT. And so she has she uses meditations with the family she works with. But she had real feedback. So Mona had a lot of tachycardia, rapid heart rate.
00:45:37
Speaker
It was constantly kind of one of those medical things that they were concerned about and trying to regulate. Right. But but it constantly stayed high. and The only time it came down into a normal range is when my middle daughter did this meditation with Mona.
00:45:56
Speaker
And literally her heart rate, which would normally be 110 125 in a coma, was
00:46:01
Speaker
in a coma and it came down into the mid 80s. whoa And it was just like this massive shift, physiological shift. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And while she was doing it, and then when she stopped, did it go back up or did it stay down? didn't.
00:46:17
Speaker
It went back up. Oh my, wow. I know. and the other That is body-based evidence. That's right. That's unbelievable. And there was another moment where ah my daughter was saying to Mona, Mom, I can't wait till we can hold each other on the couch or watch a movie together and we can lay by each other. And the the nurse said, would you like to do that now?
00:46:46
Speaker
And she literally pulled Mona in the bed in her deep coma to the side And my daughter crawled into bed with her and started stroking her face. But the warmth of her body, the energy of her body, stroking Mona's face and Mona had tears coming down her, her cheeks.
00:47:05
Speaker
Oh, wow. Um, again in a deep coma, but that was just further evidence that even in that state, yeah there was the full ability of Mona's body and and and to a certain extent your brain to sense all of that safety yeah and that touch.
00:47:25
Speaker
That could be a clinical paper. yeah the power you know Does neuroception exist under comatose conditions?
00:47:36
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, i mean, that that could be a paper. Absolutely. that you know At least anecdotally, minimum, you saw very many, many instances of, Scott, that you saw that when certain you you did certain breathing, meditation, touch,
00:47:55
Speaker
that you saw responses that that would bounce back when it was done. Right. You can't make that up. Obviously something was happening. It wasn't just random and it probably happened enough. That wasn't just like, Oh, that's a random thing.
00:48:08
Speaker
um it's very specific. and It was, it was verifiable sense data. Yeah. A lot of the studies that they do, um, or, or colleagues of mine are trying to do with using different, um,
00:48:23
Speaker
strategies with children calming children's nervous systems down. technology The sense technology, it's hard to measure. i mean, the parasympathetic and sympathetic, there they're hard to measure, but I was hooked up to so many different machines that I'm sure a smart Dr. Porges and colleagues could calculate that those indices worm were the impact of feeling safe on my growth, health growth and restoration.
00:48:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. and And with this whole experience, and ah i'm no i'm I'm sure there's many, many things that we don't have. time to cover every detail. But from both of you, whatever what stands out most as far as a a big shift or change or ah or adding to the foundation or reaffirming um kind of pre and post how you see polyvagal theory or how you see this in healing and recovery?
00:49:29
Speaker
What's one thing it really stands out to you? Like, oh yeah, this is like this is really solidified or a big light bulb moment or that just really before this experience to now there is a shift. So what what is one thing that stands out?
00:49:43
Speaker
I think that we give lip service to this phrase of the healing power of feeling safe. ah To me, power of feeling safe is cuts across. It can cut across our different camps and brands.
00:50:04
Speaker
are different types of therapies. People are saying, oh, try XYZ therapy. How about pulling back to the basic unifying principles that underlie all therapy and even medicine, which would be the healing power of feeling safe, getting to understand for each child and adult um what feel safe in their sensory systems and in their relationships and spend more time finding out for each person because it's going to be different for each person. What Scott did for me will not necessarily work for what?
00:50:50
Speaker
Another person who's struggling with a coma right now. Right. So I would say it's really the healing power of feeling safe. Like I'm a believer.
00:51:00
Speaker
I'm a believer in that. Yeah. oh dear Such a deep way now. Yeah. You know, ive um I do a little bit of volunteer work in the foster care system and I've worked with some very traumatized young people.
00:51:16
Speaker
And there's a particular young man that I'm with that had very horrific abuse as almost an infant.
00:51:26
Speaker
And so being touched by another person in any way was a threat. um he was He was often in trouble because a a classmate would come up and you know push him from behind or tap him on the shoulder and he'd turn around and hit him, the the instant response of threat.
00:51:46
Speaker
And it took about five years But I slowly, because he he learned to feel safe with me, I slowly was able to allow him or he allowed me to to put my arm around him as we were walking at the zoo.
00:52:06
Speaker
And after about five years, we gave each other a hug on the greeting and a hug as I was leaving. And it got to the point that he felt it was not a complete time together without that hug.
00:52:20
Speaker
But it took a long, long time of the creating that sense of safety. Yeah. Because his experience of of touch was well so incredibly devastating for Yeah.
00:52:34
Speaker
A threat, harmful, painful, right? All that. So I think at the end of the day, um that that connection, whether it's touch or just that, um the the soothing voice of family members, of friends, that to me is, you know, one of my passions looking back at this is I want there to be some cheat sheet, you know, some some little pamphlet
00:53:06
Speaker
that family members could be given that are all of a sudden in a trauma with a loved one having a stroke or having ah a serious medical issue. Presume competence, presume that everything that um is happening around them, they they know or can sense.
00:53:24
Speaker
Yeah. And don't be afraid to lean in, talk to them. We played videos for Mona interacting before the aneurysm with the grandkids laughing, just, you know, and we would play these constantly and just believe that they were soothing and created joy in her body, even though there was no evidence there.
00:53:49
Speaker
that we had, that it was landing. But just assume that all of those things matter. Yeah, that assumption that this still matters. Assumption that, I guess to Mona, what you said earlier is that there's an understanding, even if language, if we're missing a component of, I guess, language, but that there's still something happening and assuming there's competence, assuming the nervous system responding, assuming that they can understand, assuming that there's something happening even if I can't see it physically with my eyes. doesn't mean it's not happening. And there was many moments of evidence that is very true.
00:54:25
Speaker
Even to Mona, you saying, I would hear things. I was aware. and And my guess is, Scott, you probably didn't know she was aware at those moments, but there's probably moments. and maybe sometimes there's a passing through that there was a moment of like, you then you got the tears or something happened that you really connected for a moment. Right.
00:54:41
Speaker
Yeah. And something else I heard as you guys were both talking is that there's something. So relationships is huge. Safe relationships. It's not just lip service, but it's actual truth. There's something powerful.
00:54:51
Speaker
and something else that I heard is that can you didn't say this, but from your journey of healing recovery, it's consistency day in, day out.
Importance of Consistent Support Over Time
00:55:01
Speaker
It wasn't a one time thing. It was hours.
00:55:06
Speaker
daily hours uh and then still years later hundreds of hours hundreds and thousands of hours of still safe connection and and not just youtube but the network of people around you that are still thinking what you know whether they're praying or sending good vibes or food or just a place to cry on to be open and a place to laugh and think of you know nothing having nothing to do with this to It's that connection of healing relationships is the filling up of to keep going. And even your point, Mona, was relationship. I want to hold my grandchild.
00:55:39
Speaker
That's what keeps me going. is And obviously my beloved is I want to we all want to we all want to play. So there's this there's relationships and the power of that. And I know Stanford, was it Stanford, had that that huge study, right? it was it I think it was Stanford. I'm misquoting.
00:55:53
Speaker
Sorry if I misquoted this, but it was the 80-year study of relationships. And happiness is really about the law is the and and what showed with people with being happy and health was relationships, relationships was the power of the relationships. And so and in political theory, reiterates that.
00:56:08
Speaker
Yes. um And, you know, a final question as we start to wrap up and think from this experience. Now with the work that you do continue to do with parents and and understanding and parenting and the work, if you could wave a wand and make a positive change with the work you're doing with parents, with children, kind of taking this life-changing experience, how like what would you want to change now? what If you could, what would that be?
00:56:40
Speaker
if I had a magic wand, it would be to give parents... the support they need to take care of themselves and find states of safety and rest for themselves because being a parent is so exhausting and it's such a solitary activity in our current culture.
00:57:06
Speaker
I grew up in a multi-generational home where there were always multiple adults doing the work of cooking, cleaning, and taking care of us kids.
00:57:18
Speaker
And now parents are just pretty much on their own. There aren't multiple adults taking care of the kids or the parents. So my wish would be that we could support parents and help them find these states of calmness and peace, the green zone, as I call them, and beyond behaviors,
00:57:43
Speaker
So that they're clawing to keep their infrastructure alive and pay for their rent and their food would be less of a burden.
00:57:55
Speaker
Mm-hmm. So that we can front load relationships of joy and playfulness on the front end of our children.
Behavior as a Reflection of Deeper Issues
00:58:05
Speaker
Yeah.
00:58:06
Speaker
Where parents are leaving their babies so young only because they have to pay the bills. Mm-hmm. the The piece that I would say, and Mona wrote about this beautifully and has spoken about it,
00:58:19
Speaker
It's that that a behavior, presenting behavior, is a piece of information. It's not it's not the end. It's just something that can give us a window, potentially, into something more important that's going on beneath the surface.
00:58:39
Speaker
yeah And with Mona being in ah in a coma, I mean, the behavior was nothing around her matters, right? there' It's not registering. She's not hearing. She's not feeling. She's not sensing.
00:58:55
Speaker
um And we we know now for her specifically, but as you noted in other studies, that there are there is good data that that tells us that during Moments where the behavior is as if the the patient almost isn't there that that is that is not the end that there is ah An embodiment of experience that's taking place.
00:59:22
Speaker
i mean, I remember having to counsel the the nurses and doctors to not say something difficult for us to hear In monist presence, we would go outside the room and make sure that bad news was beyond Mona's earshot.
00:59:41
Speaker
So whether a child is is on the spectrum or having some other issue going on or acting out in class, that That behavior is just a little piece of information, and that's where the exploration begins.
00:59:57
Speaker
m Well said, love. You drink. No, well said. My eldest is neurodivergent, so being very clear in what we say, how we say. because And I've done that too with other therapists and doctors. Like I'm going to bring him outside. Or even when I see it when I've seen parents of the kids, like let's, let's put them outside before we start talking. Cause words matter. What we say matters. Yes. And how does their nervous system interpret that?
01:00:21
Speaker
is it less Am I less than? Am I broken? am i And to go but going back to polyvagal theory, like that's words carry weight in our in our bodies and what we say matters. And um I'm with you guys on that. like I often say, let's get out of the room. Let's go talk over here. if They don't need to hear this, at least not in this way. right Because this gets, for you this picks up stuff. Yeah. My wife's very clear on that. And so am I. So she's very good at that. I'm very grateful for her too. um And so with your work, Mona, Dr. Delahook, where can we find your stuff?
01:00:55
Speaker
Where can people go what you're working on? If they want to know more about you to follow your work, what's the best place for them to go? Well, probably my website, which is monadelahook.com or Instagram and Facebook.
01:01:10
Speaker
Although I am posting less and less. Social media now feels a very kind of trivial to me, but I'd rather be on the floor with my babies.
01:01:24
Speaker
Yes. But they can look take a peek there. And also, we just um released the second edition of my first book, which was a bestseller, called Beyond Behaviors.
01:01:40
Speaker
Yes. So that is, that actually goes out on Tuesday, March 3rd. Oh, great. Or when, out whenever you, whenever you drop this. so Yeah. so Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's available. um That's a big deal. You're in on Amazon. So thank you.
01:01:58
Speaker
Yeah, no, thank you. and And Mona and Scott, I thank you for your vulnerability and and blessing on a continued healing journey for you, Mona.
Healing Through Safe Relationships
01:02:10
Speaker
um Thank you, Travis.
01:02:12
Speaker
complete recovery and just to continue to share this with the parents, your own family. I mean, obviously it's living in your family's lives forever, seeing the healing work of relationships and connection. Obviously they, they lived it, they still living it, but for other families to really take this. And my hope was that this episode, this ah this, this podcast, that this is well received by people across the world also heal, hear the, the healing power of relationship of safe connection, regardless of outcome,
01:02:41
Speaker
That it's, it's ah there's something that we feel, even if we don't see the direct feedback, that there's something happening and we want to hold that, that always remained. I think that Scott's point, assume, assume that there's understanding, assume that the person's receiving this, and saying that kind of loving, positive connection, touch, all these things to that individual and to those around you. And also, to Scott's point, the need, especially those that are supporting the ones walking through the healing journey, that the ones that are helping also need helpers too.
01:03:13
Speaker
They need community as well. And to not do it alone. I think that was also a massive thing I heard that was just said, is that we need each other. There's no lone wolfing in this, but we need community. So I just blessed you both and thank you so much for sharing today.
01:03:27
Speaker
Thank you for having us. Yeah. Thank you so much, Travis. Thank you for listening to Wired For Connection, a Polyvagal podcast. This show is produced by the Polyvagal Institute, an international nonprofit organization dedicated to creating a safer and more connected world.
01:03:46
Speaker
PVI provides education, resources, and community to those interested in learning more about polyvagal theory and applying polyvagal principles in personal and professional contexts.
01:03:59
Speaker
To learn more about Polyvagal Theory and other offerings, visit us at polyvagal.org, where you can join our online community space and access our free learning library.
01:04:09
Speaker
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01:04:23
Speaker
Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.