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Performance Through a Polyvagal Lens: Part Two
830 Plays6 days ago
In the second part of our episode on performance with Michael Allison, we discuss performance in an athletic and physical context. Michael touches on some of the great athletes, teams, and coaches and highlights how they were (or were not) able to move in and out of different nervous system states depending on the task at hand.
We also discuss how this information can help inform goal-setting and achievement of any kind. By honing your ability to listen to your body, and shift your physiology, using what Michael calls Autonomic Agility, you can achieve the optimal nervous system state for performance.
Michael's book on this topic is coming in 2027. You can enroll in Michael's course with the Polyvagal Institute at several times throughout the year. Learn more about this course on our website.
CONNECT WITH POLYVAGAL INSTITUTE:
polyvagal.org
@PolyvagalInstitute on Social Media
MORE ON MICHAEL:
https://theplayzone.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Performance Physiology
00:00:00
Speaker
Steve talks about autonomic state as the intervening variable variable between stimulus and response. I talk about it as being the intervening variable between potential and performance, between our intention and our execution.
00:00:18
Speaker
Welcome back to Wired for Connection, Polyvagal Podcast. My name is Mac with the Polyvagal Institute, and today we're presenting part two of our conversation with Michael Allison on the physiology of performance.
00:00:30
Speaker
In the second part of this episode, Michael and I discuss his state of play methodology in a sports and athletic context. Michael highlights why maintaining flexibility in our nervous system is key to achieving the highest athletic performance. moving in and out of different nervous system states to conserve, fight, and ultimately win in a state of safety and connection, play freely.
Role of Coaches in Athlete Development
00:00:54
Speaker
In case you missed part one of our conversation on applying these principles in the workplace, Michael is a globally recognized performance consultant educator, and author who applies polyvagal theory to optimize health, resilience, and excellence under pressure.
00:01:09
Speaker
Michael trains elite performers, including professional athletes, sports psychologists, executives, creatives, and teams, and his expertise is sought across major sports leagues, including the NBA, MLB, FIFA, and many more.
00:01:24
Speaker
During our conversation, we discussed the role of the coach and leader in guiding athletes or performers towards achieving their goals. The coach during the game on the sidelines, their primary task is to meet the team or the player where they are.
00:01:44
Speaker
Okay. So, and then if needed, help guide them to what needs to be done and the state they need to be in to execute that.
00:01:54
Speaker
We also discussed the advantages and disadvantages of the different nervous system states, depending on where you're at in your performance.
Navigating Nervous System States in Sports
00:02:02
Speaker
Yes, we need to know how to fight. Yes, we need to know how to defend.
00:02:06
Speaker
Yes, we even need to know how to conserve. Okay, we need to know and we need to trust that we can move into those different zones and states. And they each have their advantages, they have their limitations.
00:02:21
Speaker
And if we can find a way to play together versus fight against, right? That's my thing. like We really, we fight only when we don't feel safe enough to play.
00:02:34
Speaker
And as you'll hear towards the end of our conversation, these ideas don't just apply to athletes or performers. If you're looking to match intent with outcome and make steps towards achieving your goals of any kind, this conversation on performance can help in building that framework.
00:02:50
Speaker
Here is Michael Allison. But if you're in an athletic context, if you're competing on a court or on the ice or on the field, you know if your body is moving in a specific way and then you notice that it doesn't do, your body doesn't do what you wanted it to do in that situation.
00:03:10
Speaker
you know, what would you what would you start with with that athlete? You know, the pitcher or, um you know, the running back if they're just not getting to the point where they need to get to to perform.
Techniques for Rhythm and Adjustment during Performance
00:03:22
Speaker
You know, what does that look like in terms of your your heart rate, your muscle tone, getting your body to a specific place? Yeah. So you said something that's really important. You said.
00:03:35
Speaker
getting the body to perform or making the body do what you want it to do. That's the first part is letting of that, right? Like it it isn't about making the body do anything.
00:03:49
Speaker
It's actually about allowing the body or guiding the body to be able to do its thing. So Steve talks about autonomic state as the intervening variable variable between stimulus and response.
00:04:07
Speaker
I talk about it as being the intervening variable between potential and performance, between our intention and our execution in sport. Okay, so when we're when we're recognizing in the moment Okay, so let's just go in the moment. The athlete's recognizing that their body, their timing, their rhythm, everything's off. They can't get, and we hear them all the time. I just, I couldn't get my rhythm, couldn't get my feel, right? Or they were facing an opponent who just, they threw me, they threw me out of rhythm. I, poof.
00:04:42
Speaker
okay So you have a couple of choices then. if if If we've already been working together, how can you find what you can get some rhythm with? right Can you get rhythm with a teammate? Can you get rhythm with just things that you're doing in your own? like you're you're You're not engaged in that exact moment like in a tennis player. It's easy. They can get rhythm by just moving before the player serves in the ball. They can get rhythm when they walk.
00:05:10
Speaker
think when they walk to go pick up a ball or to go get their towel. So there's all different ways to find in those micro moments what might get you back into rhythm. What is that? That's that heart rate and breathing rhythm. That's that movement rhythm. That's that vagal break coming back into rhythm. That's really what it is. Okay. So you can try to find that.
00:05:32
Speaker
Okay. That's one choice. The other choice, well, there's three choices. So, okay. I couldn't find it. So I tried, couldn't find it. The other choice is now, what do I do with my, what do I do with my intention?
00:05:45
Speaker
Okay. So I recognize I'm not in my optimal state. I recognize I'm out of rhythm. Can I change my intention? Can I shift my goal?
00:05:57
Speaker
Right. Instead of doing this, which requires a state that's closer to my optimal state, is there something I can do that will become reliable?
Performance Tactics and Stress Handling
00:06:10
Speaker
right So it's like the basketball player who needs to now step two feet closer to take a shot. Don't take, right? Or go to their money shot. Like the shot they know they can make even when they don't feel good. It's a tennis player who starts hitting with more margin.
00:06:28
Speaker
They start shaping the ball more instead of driving. they You go to what is most reliable, even when you're not in your optimal state. And so part of that's practice. Part of that's knowing, right? Like the reason, i it's always interesting, mechanics in sport are so focused on, right? Oh, you've got to have this precise mechanics, but yet we see people shoot and do different things from all different ways, right? Well, the reason from this perspective, the reason mechanics are important is the simpler the mechanics, the more repeatable the mechanics.
00:07:04
Speaker
The more repeatable the mechanics and the simpler the mechanics, the more range and state you can replicate it. Right. So that's where I'm getting at. So like if you can't find enough safety in play and you're trying, change what you're trying to execute.
00:07:23
Speaker
Because just when you start, when whatever you're doing starts matching your intention, like when when you actually shoot and it goes in, or you hit and it goes in the spot where you tried to hit it, that's a feedback cue of predictability, which will start changing your state also.
00:07:43
Speaker
So you do internal things, you do that by changing what you're doing. And then you also can use every state. The one thing that we don't talk a lot about in polyvagal theory, every state has advantages and every state has limitations, right? So when we're playing,
00:08:01
Speaker
Like Carlos Alcaraz is a beautiful example. When he's in the state of play, he will often get so creative That he'll miss. He'll do something so outside the box. He'll do something so outside the box.
00:08:16
Speaker
Carlos Alcaraz is the number one player in the world. yeah he's He's already surpassed any... but We all knew he was going to be great, but he's already surpassed everything anyone thought. He's won six Grand Slams.
00:08:27
Speaker
He's been number one in the world for 40-plus weeks. He's 22 years old, okay and he's in a state of play. But the downside of that, and what his coaches get on him for...
00:08:39
Speaker
which is silly, but they do, is he takes too much risk. He becomes very creative. He starts playing instead of just winning. So what?
00:08:52
Speaker
Right? So what if you see the bigger picture? But that is the that's the that's the disadvantage of play. Sometimes we become so free, we miss. Okay.
00:09:04
Speaker
Whereas fight, okay, we're not going to take the chance. We lock in on one thing. So what I was getting at and in this answer is that sometimes we can't find enough safety around us.
00:09:19
Speaker
We're not able to change our intention and start getting enough safety. feedback of reassurance. And so now we're here at this, like, what do I do? Okay. I'm going to take this unsettled.
00:09:30
Speaker
Maybe I'm really unsettled and scattered. I'm going to lock it into intensity. I'm just going to lock it in. Again, with intention and awareness, which might feedback again some certainty and predictability.
00:09:46
Speaker
It's limited because I won't see all the options. I won't be creative. But also what it does. So think of it in a team sport. And if you've watched the movie on the Florida Gators football team from years ago, Swamp Kings,
00:10:00
Speaker
I haven't seen it. Okay. Really good example. Or even the NCAA championships in basketball this past year, the the final between Houston and Florida. Houston only knew how to play and fight.
00:10:14
Speaker
The whole team was orchestrated around constant fight mode. There was no free play. It wasn't about creativity. It was about overwhelming, finding the weakness in your opponent and just taking advantage of it. Okay. Again, it can work.
00:10:28
Speaker
until it doesn't. But we can recognize that when we're ah able to find a way to play, we can use fight for periods of time, right? Because it can overwhelm the opponent.
00:10:40
Speaker
It can bring the crowd who's also getting into their own fight. It can get a crowd of fighters aligned with the team and it can be very powerful, but it's still not optimal.
Coaching Techniques for Team Dynamics
00:10:53
Speaker
It's not sustainable and it doesn't feel great while you're doing it.
00:10:57
Speaker
So, but we see it all the time, right? And we see teams and athletes, business as well, that are really good fighters until it doesn't work.
00:11:09
Speaker
and And I do want to talk about maybe one athlete that I think of that comes to mind when it when it comes to performance in just a constant fight dominate sort of mode. But i before I do that, I want to get your take on what the coach's role is for a team in fight or an athlete in fight.
00:11:33
Speaker
you know how do you think about the coach or the coaching staff as being obviously but you know um i think you're gonna talk about co-regulation but just wondering what you think about from the coaching perspective so the coach in the moment so for for my perspective the coach during the game on the sidelines their primary task is to meet the team or the player where they are.
00:12:01
Speaker
Okay. So, and then if needed, help guide them to what needs to be done and the state they need to be in to execute that.
00:12:11
Speaker
I mean, that's just factually what you're doing. So most coaches rely on strategies, telling the players what to do. This is the play we're going to run.
00:12:21
Speaker
The great coaches of all times do that, but they're also doing what I'm talking about. where they're actually meeting the team and they can do it in all different ways. They aren't just the motivator that gets the team to fight. There are coaches who have also been successful. They're not the great coaches.
00:12:40
Speaker
They're successful at, again, just getting everyone to rally and fight, fight, fight until you can't fight anymore. Okay? They're not the great coaches. The great coaches can do that when that's needed.
00:12:53
Speaker
They can also lift a player out of collapse and shutdown and bring them back into connection and engagement. They can also take a player or a team who is to fight and is all fight and get them to connect and start having the freedom to play.
00:13:10
Speaker
So to me, the the role of the coach, it is a co-regulator, but it's not always co-regulating safety. Sometimes it is deliberately lifting a player who you see falling into, I separate fight and flight.
00:13:27
Speaker
Okay, so I have a performance hierarchy and I separate fight and flight even though they're both sympathetically dominant. Because fight in the world of athletics and performance is higher performing than flight.
00:13:40
Speaker
Flight, the way I'm defining it is playing defense, looking for an escape route, not how am I going to confront you and overwhelm you. So sometimes a really good coach sees their player or team moving into flight and they might get them to be more aggressive with the goal of getting into play.
00:14:02
Speaker
Okay, that's how I look at it. So that's the role of the coach. And if the coach thinks they're not playing a fundamental role in how that team or player is playing, they don't get it.
00:14:17
Speaker
Right? Like they're, again, without saying a word, The way they are their body language, their facial expressions, their postures, their arms, all of that is playing a huge role, even if they don't think it it does, or even if they don't think the player or team is looking at them.
00:14:36
Speaker
They're absolutely playing a huge role, a huge role. So that's the other part, is making the coach aware of the role they are playing and the language they are speaking without words.
00:14:50
Speaker
Yeah, so it's not it's not black and white. It is you know recognizing that you have a team full of, you know maybe it's one human or maybe it's 20 humans that are all experiencing different.
00:15:02
Speaker
You might have to pull some people up. You have to bring some people Yeah, that's right. so yeah you know And then finding that, you know that cohesion. Yeah. And the great coaches of all time are doing that intuitively.
00:15:16
Speaker
m They're doing it intuitively, like right? Yeah. I'm thinking, sorry, go ahead I was to say where there's the coaches that we still celebrate. There's many of them. All that they were without, but without criticizing is they were great instigators of fight.
00:15:34
Speaker
They were leaders who just rallied everyone into the fight mode. but the great coaches can do it all. Yeah, and I'm thinking specifically of um the athlete that I want to talk about is Michael Jordan, because obviously Phil Jackson was a great coach and you know basketball coach, for those who are listening might not know, I think he won 11 championships, six with Michael Jordan and five with Kobe Bryant, two of the best basketball players of all time. But the reason why why I want to bring up
00:16:08
Speaker
um Michael is because I think he's really dominated a lot of how people think about performance athletically. We've all seen you know six championships, the MVPs, the accolades, they're all there. The shoes, the brand. I mean, he was larger than life and he in a lot of ways still is. ah But specifically, it was that win at all costs mentality from my understanding, what I've seen um from the behind the scenes and the documentaries that have come out. And, you know, you might look at that and say, OK, well, he was successful. He won.
00:16:47
Speaker
all of these championships. And then you also see the other side of it where a lot of his teammates had, you know, maybe not so nice things to say about him. he was hard to be around. They didn't necessarily, if you know, is it was his way or the highway. um ah just wondering what you think about what I think about Michael Jordan. yeah I feel, i feel a lot of compassion toward MJ, you know, and he's actually, he's a small part in this book that I've written because when, When I first met this one tennis player in particular, he was reading the book by Michael Jordan's trainer called Relentless.
00:17:24
Speaker
Like, and it's about being an unstoppable force, what you're referred to as a cleaner. I don't know if you've read that book. It's, It's the exact antithesis to what I'm talking about, right? And so it's really actually fascinating to navigate that.
00:17:40
Speaker
But that is the old paradigm. And that to me is, he he was amazing, but he was mostly locked into a state of fight.
00:17:52
Speaker
Obviously, when he was in the zone, he wasn't. And that was because the that was that intention execution loop, I call it.
00:18:03
Speaker
Things were flowing. He was making, and he so that fed him enough safety that he was playing. There were times where he was playing. He did have relationships sometimes while they're winning with his players. Mm-hmm. And you do have Phil Jackson, who he trusted, right? Absolutely trusted, who who could meet players in different states. He's one of those great coaches. He didn't see... you could get He could get fiery.
00:18:27
Speaker
He could also be really calm, reassuring. He was doing a lot of team things that, again, from a polyvagal perspective, were building trust within the team, even though mj was not caring if you were coming along. It's like, I'm going here and you better keep up or see you later.
00:18:44
Speaker
Adios. But I think Phil Jackson orchestrated the safety and the connection and the team camaraderie. Okay. And maybe the same with the Lakers. I didn't follow enough of Kobe, but the He really was, more often than not, locked in that fight zone.
00:19:03
Speaker
And yes, he was could still maybe be considered the greatest of all time, right? And think how good he could have been. Think of those times, though, when he was scoring...
00:19:16
Speaker
numbers that were untouchable, he wasn't fighting then. He was relaxed. He was playing. And that was because of the feedback. That's why. That's how I see it. But you can also tell he was locked in fight because he's still unsettled.
00:19:32
Speaker
Right? If you look at interviews with him today, he's not in a safe, relaxed body. He's actually chronically inflamed. You can see it. You can hear it in his voice. There's actually a sadness in some of his more recent interviews. you can you can You can feel that he he was so locked in fight. And like you you mentioned, he didn't form really trusting relationships with his teammates.
00:19:57
Speaker
And at the end of the day- Or trust in other their nervous system states. No, he didn't, no. So it's really hard for him to trust that it's safe to feel safe. It's hard for him to trust that it's safe to trust others.
Cultural Impact on Performance and Mental Health
00:20:09
Speaker
And it's also in that case, It's really hard to just enjoy everything that you've accomplished. It's really hard, right? Like you can cognitively say, oh, I did so much, but you' you're not feeling it in your body because the only way to feel it is to soften around it.
00:20:30
Speaker
What does that mean? It means getting the body into letting go of the defenses. Right. And so I have a lot of compassion for him because he. He that was that was where he's lived his whole life in that physiology of fight.
00:20:46
Speaker
you know and And we see it too, like you you may not remember Jimmy Connors, but Jimmy Connors in tennis, exact another example in men's tennis. And we could go in all different sports.
00:20:57
Speaker
We could go in business too and just look at business leaders and and we could see it. And so that's why to me, this is really an important concept. and And this idea that you can actually be a Michael Jordan in a state of play.
00:21:14
Speaker
not necessarily always locked in fight. Yes, we need to know how to fight. Yes, we need to know how to defend. Yes, we even need to know how to conserve. Okay, move it we have we we need to know and we need to trust that we can move into those different zones and states and they each have their advantages, they have their limitations, and if we can, find a way to play together versus fight against, right? That's my thing, like,
00:21:43
Speaker
We really, we fight only when we don't feel safe enough to play. And that's how my dog is. Yeah. And my dog's laying right next to me too. When he feels safe, he's either sleeping next to me or he wants to play.
00:22:02
Speaker
Right? Yeah. Yeah. I think the dogs feel safe right now, which is good. And yeah, thank you for, yeah it's really interesting to hear you say that you have compassion for Michael. Cause I think you know not to go too deep down an MJ rabbit hole, but especially in the social media world and especially in the United States, you're just presented with this alpha top notch performance that is something to aspire to.
00:22:27
Speaker
But of course, we're not we're not aware of what the costs are. you know and you kind of mentioned, you can see it in some of his interviews and you know being in that state of fight, that sympathetic activation, you know for too long, we know that that does lead to chronic inflammation, which can you know cause issues throughout the body. But even you know just thinking back to when he had to take Michael had to take the year off in his career and he went to go play baseball, but it famously came back. But you know I think it was around that time that his father died and there was a real, you know i mean, there was a breakdown. I mean, you can watch it in the documentaries and things like that. but um
00:23:06
Speaker
I think that was the first time that we saw the cost of the performance. And I just think that's really important to note about being in that constant state of fight where that's presented, that's glorified to us. But you know seeing that flip side is really important.
00:23:23
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for bringing it up. And I think we can expand that to the whole culture outside of sport, right? And that that's kind of where I'm getting at here is that and you said it earlier, were in a way we're asked to perform at such a high level in so many domains in our lives, right? In so many of the domains from the time we're little.
00:23:48
Speaker
Now we have to go to preschool in order to be good enough to go to Kindergarten. Now we have to go to pre-K before we can go to kindergarten. right like All of those things look like, oh, we're just helping we're helping you know make progress.
00:24:03
Speaker
No, we're speeding everything up. right We just keep speeding everything up. And then we're creating technology that keeps speeding everything up. And we're we're we're we're going after acquisition of stuff and speed and resource and money and all of this stuff.
00:24:20
Speaker
And that's in it really that's in opposition to what we're really craving, just like our dogs. you We both said they're sleeping. I mean, we're really craving rest.
00:24:33
Speaker
Being able to let our guard down. Having really meaningful and and and connected conversations. That's what we're really craving. And and we're we're being forced in so many ways to keep up and to compete.
00:24:47
Speaker
And it it it in a way, moves us into states of fight. And the ones that fight longest come out on top, MJ.
00:24:59
Speaker
And the ones that feel that same unsettled energy, but go into defense and scatter, they get walked over. And then the other ones,
00:25:10
Speaker
get overwhelmed and pull out of it and get quiet. And meanwhile, we just keep moving that model further and further along. And so what ah my goal in all of this and Polyvagal Institute is really the foundation for everything that I do um is to maybe,
00:25:32
Speaker
Start helping those who are in these leadership positions or who are who are really achieving amazing things outside of sport, sport, all kinds of different domains, to start playing the game differently, to start playing the game from inside their physiology, from the inside out.
00:25:54
Speaker
And then maybe we can start changing the game. Maybe. I don't know. But at least if enough of us start playing the game differently and bringing others along with us in that game, maybe the game will change.
00:26:09
Speaker
Because to me right now, the game, the cultural game, it's broken and it's creating more and more Michael Jordans. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you touched on something that, you know, just, just a couple more questions, but it's really, it's really important. And you're taught you're speaking about like the game of life, the game of, us you know, business competition. um but when you're, you're asked to accumulate resources and I know that, you know, Steve or just has said, you know, resource accumulation, it can be money degrees. Um,
00:26:45
Speaker
you know, accolades, we are always asked to accumulate more and it's never enough. Can you just speak a little bit about the nervous system when you're in that state of always needing more and never giving yourself permission to feel safer, finding that safety from other people? So it's both a reflection of a nervous system already in that heightened, mobilized, protective, either aggressive and attacking or defending and just trying to stay alive, play defense. So it's a reflection of, and not just an individual nervous system, but a collective that is already in that mobilized, hypervigilant, hyper aggressive, hyper attuned state.
00:27:32
Speaker
Okay, and then it feeds back into it. So you get into that loop and it's there's no way out until first you become aware of it.
00:27:43
Speaker
And what we're both saying is
00:27:49
Speaker
simply pulling ourselves out of it isn't the answer because it's still going to go on and unless we're gonna go off grid. and And somehow figure out like, and and that wasn't an option for me. That's not what I wanted to do.
00:28:04
Speaker
So we have to somehow find a way to play within that from this sense of awareness and finding enough safety and friendships and connection and a connection to our why that we can navigate it.
00:28:21
Speaker
And maybe little by little accumulate the necessary resources that we still have to accumulate
00:28:29
Speaker
And in a way, you're leveraging those resources for more connection, more safety, more belonging. Right. I mean, that's kind of what is happening. and And what I'm hoping, though, happens is that enough of us who have accumulated some resources and have some say in the game can maybe start shifting the game.
00:28:51
Speaker
So it isn't what we're talking about where it's just this relentless struggle to stay on the surface or to climb out of the water, right? So it isn't a system that is naturally feeding us what our biology needs and craves. It's not.
00:29:08
Speaker
And we have to we have to own that, you know? And it's not, I don't look at it as a conspiracy. I don't look it as somebody controlling it. I just look at it it it's a It's a manifestation of enough bodies locked in patterns of protection that are continuing to feed into a system that feeds back into more patterns of protection.
00:29:34
Speaker
and And the final outcome is, you know, the theory with competition is that it creates innovation and with innovation, we can advance whatever we need to advance. I'm just wondering.
Connection vs. Competition in Performance Sustainability
00:29:49
Speaker
in your world, if you've seen people or groups or teams take the opposite approach where they really focus on connection first, they focus on their community first, they focus on their internal and their external environments first, does that lead to to positive outcomes and innovations and advancements in your eyes?
00:30:11
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think what even though Michael Jordan was locked in fight, or even though I don't know where Kobe Bryant was, but I think those teams were doing what we're talking about.
00:30:21
Speaker
I think they really were led by a leader who was trying to build connection and trust. And yes, absolutely. Right. Like I think there are I don't think there's as many examples or we don't hear about those examples as much. I think, again, we keep hearing about the success of the fighter, the success of the relentless charge it warrior mentality. Right. That whole ethos. But yes, ah in my own life, I know it's true in in the people I work with. I see it.
00:30:54
Speaker
Does it mean you're going to win? Not necessarily the way that not the way that we look at winning. not all but I'm not saying being in a state of play and having this flexibility means you will be the greatest of all time. i'm not saying that.
00:31:09
Speaker
But it does mean that you will actually be able to really enjoy the richness of life. you will have You will have more meaningful and fulfilling relationships. You will be able to sit still in your own skin.
00:31:27
Speaker
You will be able to be present and show up more often than not the way that you would like to in the relationships that are really important to You'll have relationships. but you'll You'll be ah open and more exploratory. you You'll be less rigid, all of those things. So yes, I think yes and more to come.
00:31:49
Speaker
yeah absolutely and i think that's a great uh place to kind of end on and i just want to thank you for sharing um everything that you've shared and all the notes about the play zone methodology. You have a book coming out next year.
00:32:06
Speaker
ah Where can people learn more about you and your work? Where can we send them?
Michael Allison's Upcoming Work
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, thank you. ah But thank you for this too. You you you really led me in really nice ways, thoughtful, playful, meaningful ways. So thank you. Those were really, really good insights and questions. So I really appreciate that.
00:32:28
Speaker
My website is theplayzone.com or autonomicagility.com. They're one in the same. Those are my two kind of taglines. The PVI Institute is where I do my courses ah for the public.
00:32:41
Speaker
And the book's coming out. So there's also a book coming out that I co-authored with ah Paul North and Lydia So. That'll be coming out actually in this next year, spring.
00:32:53
Speaker
It's called Polyvagal Parenting by New Harbinger. And then the book State of Play will be coming out hopefully at the end of the year, next year. And that will be called State of Play, also with New Harbinger.
00:33:04
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And I write for Psychology Today. So I have a platform called The Pressure Paradox. So just Google The Pressure Paradox Psychology Today. And I i try to write these little snippets, usually in an athletic venue,
00:33:22
Speaker
and and bring in something related to what we really talked about. So you can see how someone that we might be seeing on television or reading about is actually relating to their own physiological reactions or they call them emotions, whatever they want to call it, but I'll put it in this language to help people understand.
00:33:42
Speaker
Awesome. Well, thank you, Michael. really appreciate it. And thanks. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you for listening to part two of our conversation with Michael on Wired for Connection. Michael's course with PBI, Playzone Pro, is open for enrollment at several points throughout the year.
00:33:59
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You can learn more at polyvagal.org. This show is produced by the Polyvagal Institute, an international nonprofit organization dedicated to creating a safer and more connected world.
00:34:10
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PVI provides education, resources, and community to those interested in learning more about Polyvagal Theory and applying Polyvagal principles in personal and professional contexts.
00:34:21
Speaker
To learn more about Polyvagal Theory and other offerings, visit us at polyvagal.org where you can join our online community space and access our free learning library. You'll also find information about upcoming courses and community events.
00:34:36
Speaker
Connect with us on social media. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, and YouTube. Thanks again for listening. We'll see you next time.