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Empowered Educators: How Polyvagal Principles Help Boost Learning Outcomes in the Classroom
1.1k Plays12 days ago
In this episode, Dr. Lori Desautels, assistant professor at Butler University and founder of the Applied Educational Neuroscience certification program, discusses the transformative power of understanding the nervous system—particularly through the lens of polyvagal theory—in education. She shares her journey from special education teacher to neuroscientific educator and highlights how applied neuroscience can revolutionize classroom practices to support both teachers and students.
Join Dr. Desautels & Dr. Niki Elliott for a special one-day summit for Educators at the Polyvagal Institute on October 4, 2025: https://learning.polyvagal.org/courses/a-one-day-summit-for-educators
- The Adult Nervous System Sets the Tone:
A central pillar of Dr. Desautels’ framework is that a dysregulated adult cannot effectively regulate a dysregulated child. Teachers’ nervous system awareness (not necessarily constant regulation, but awareness) is vital in modeling and co-regulating with students, establishing the foundation for a safe and productive learning environment. - Polyvagal Theory Empowers Students and Educators:
Teaching children and adolescents about their autonomic nervous system, particularly the role of the vagus nerve (“the vagal brake”), helps them understand their behaviors are often responses to nervous system states, not evidence of being “bad” kids. Simple practices like sensation check-ins, focused attention activities, and using metaphors (such as a car brake for the vagus nerve) can make these concepts accessible and empowering. - Systemic Implementation Matters:
Change is most effective when embraced across the whole school system, including administrators. Consistent procedures, collective nervous system awareness, and integrating trauma-sensitive, neurodiversity-affirming approaches benefit everyone. While resistance may exist, especially when prioritizing academic performance, whole-school frameworks create lasting impact and teacher well-being.
Want to bring these insights to your classroom or school community? Explore Dr. Desautels’ resources at revelationsineducation.com, try out simple “focused attention practices” with your students or your own children, and start conversations with colleagues about cultivating nervous system awareness in your culture. For more, check out her books or connect on social media for ongoing tips and updates. Remember: when adults model nervous system awareness and regulation, everyone thrives!
CONNECT WITH Polyvagal Institute:
WEB: www.polyvagalinstitute.org
Instagram: @polyvagalinstitute
LinkedIn: polyvagal-institute
Email: community@polyvagal.org
CONNECT WITH Travis Goodman:
Instagram: Travis.Goodman.LMFT
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Transcript
Introduction to Adult and Child Nervous Systems
00:00:00
Speaker
The very first pillar is the adult nervous system. And we we people have heard this for so long, but a dysregulated adult cannot regulate a dysregulated child.
00:00:11
Speaker
Today, I'm joined by Dr. Lori Desetel. She is an assistant professor at Butler University, where she integrates applied educational neuroscience into teacher training, focusing on how the nervous system shapes learning and felt safety in the classroom.
00:00:27
Speaker
She is the creator of the Applied Educational Neuroscience Certification Program, which has trained hundreds of educators, counselors, and clinicians worldwide.
Dr. Lori Desetel's Work and Impact
00:00:38
Speaker
Lori has published multiple books, including Connections Over Compliance and Intentional Neuroplasticity, and continues to co-teach in K-12 schools, bringing her research directly into classrooms.
00:00:51
Speaker
With over 200 school districts engaged across the globe, her work has reached more than 150,000 educators. Today, we will explore her insights on the role of the vagus nerve in education and how understanding the nervous system can transform how we teach and learn.
00:01:10
Speaker
Welcome to Wired for Connection, a polyvagal podcast. I am your host, and my name is Travis Goodman. Welcome. And so Lori, for those that are new to your work or might be new to your work, I'm wondering if you could share a bit about your background and your passion for neuroscience and education and how those kind of came
Dr. Desetel's Journey into Neuroscience
00:01:30
Speaker
together. Well, I am a former special education teacher and I taught children in public schools with a classification of emotional disabilities, behavior disorders, um and also um autistic children.
00:01:48
Speaker
And in the 90s, when I was teaching full time in a classroom, we did not have the neuroscience. But, you know, to really understand what was happening beneath behaviors.
00:02:01
Speaker
So as my work evolved, I began to really wonder and get curious about the nervous system. And um and so through my master's degree, I'm a former school counselor as well.
00:02:17
Speaker
And then working on my doctorate, I began to look at what were the thoughts, if I could, what was the self-talk of middle school students, seventh and eighth grade students, um when things were not going well, when things went awry.
00:02:35
Speaker
And so from that, I just had this passion to learn more about the brain. And at that time, Dr. Judy Willis, who is in Santa Barbara, California, she is a former neurologist, left the medical profession and became a teacher because she was just amazed that educators did not know um about the brain.
00:03:05
Speaker
And um so she really, i we became good friends, good colleagues. She taught me so much. And then Dr. Porges, um In 2000, I believe he came to Butler University in 2018. It was before the pandemic.
00:03:23
Speaker
And I began to think about um through his research, how we've left out the body and um that the body and the brain are in constant communication.
Polyvagal Theory and Educational Integration
00:03:36
Speaker
So that's the evolution of, um you know, where I was and where I am going. with this work, but it's just a beautiful partnership, Polyvagal Theory with Applied Educational Neuroscience.
00:03:53
Speaker
I love that title, Polyvagal Theory with Applied Educational Neuroscience. um and and And hearing that story, again, for those that are ah new and for the first time hearing about you, um hearing this kind of character arc of where you began and the passion that fueled your focus to say, hey, we need to help educators better understand and kind of pull in this
00:04:20
Speaker
significantly untapped resource and understanding and how that can maybe revolutionize how we show up. And so I guess it leads me to my next question is, you know, when you think of polyvagal theory across, you know, what we think of across all disciplines, because really the theory itself integrates into, I think, believe pretty much everything.
00:04:38
Speaker
um But specifically with integrating it with educators and students, because that was your focus. Like, how do you see it? How do you how does Lori define it, I guess, in that space with educators and students?
Understanding the Autonomic Nervous System
00:04:52
Speaker
Well, I feel that it is really at the heart or the core discipline practices and also um creating self-agency and, know,
00:05:04
Speaker
um really tapping into a child or an adolescent's identity. And what I am learning every day, because I'm also back in the school. So even though I'm teaching at the university um for the last 12 years, I've returned to the classroom because I want to walk with the walk of educators, administrators, social workers, counselors, therapists. So all of the research and the application and translation of that research that I'm personally doing, I'm taking into schools and I'm co-teaching.
00:05:38
Speaker
I'm smiling because whether it's first grade or seniors in high school, polyvagal theory has provided a lens in neuroscience that gives a child or adolescent some relief and empowerment. And and I want to explain, Travis, what I mean by that.
00:06:00
Speaker
yeah That was my next question. I want to know what, what does that mean? now I would love that. So the autonomic nervous system, which we know is the body and the brain in a bi-directional communication, always 24 seven is the ANS, the autonomic nervous system. So we define for our children and our youth.
00:06:23
Speaker
um We talk about the ANS, A-N-S acronym. And um we, we really, the kids begin to befriend and to make friends with their body and their brain.
00:06:37
Speaker
And that's empowering because I hear comments from children and youth saying, you mean I'm not a bad kid? You mean there's nothing wrong with me? and And, you know, when they learn that their beautiful, complex autonomic nervous system is always working for them and not against them, there is relief, there's release, there's ease, and there's empowerment.
00:07:05
Speaker
And I think that's the fourth pillar of the applied educational neuroscience um framework is learning the language of the nervous system. And that is through the ands, which is sensation.
00:07:18
Speaker
Yeah. Oh my gosh. What hit me was, you know, I'm not a bad kid. Because I think some a lot of children and get unfortunately mislabeled as bad children versus the understanding. And I think it sounds like the work you're doing and others that I've been blessed to talk with on this podcast and just professionally are doing great work around this, of trying to shift this from being pathological to this is the body's way of surviving and navigating.
00:07:53
Speaker
And if we give some understanding and teaching at a young age, we can help bring that awareness early on and say, it's not bad. And even helping educators. and systems say, Hey, how do we better understand the wiring of this individual?
00:08:06
Speaker
Gosh, that, that hit me at my core just because of my eldest son. Um, when people don't and understand. And so, you know, my, I guess ah thought that just came in was what's a simple practice you do teach like a first grader on the ANS. Can you just share like a simple thing that you do with them to help teach them about that?
00:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. So, um I actually began with our youngest students, primary grade, like second grade is where we focused with this practice. But it's really for everybody. But um so I actually went to we have a friend who runs a what am I trying to say? Like he works on cars and cannic said ah um mechanic. And I said, Butch, I need a car battery.
00:08:52
Speaker
I'm sorry, a car brake. Can you like, do you have a brake laying around? And, um and so and if I couldn't believe it, I'd never seen a car break. um It's huge and they're really heavy.
00:09:03
Speaker
And so I carried this into the second grade classroom. This was about four, three or four years ago when I began integrating this into schools. And I asked our second graders who are seven years old for the most part, six, seven years old, eight years old. And I asked them, what do you think this is? 90% of them knew it was a car break, which was amazing. Yeah.
00:09:25
Speaker
I think they had a lot of family that worked on cars. and um And so we compared that to the vagus nerve because when there is a break, when you put a break on that vagus nerve and they were learning about their autonomic nervous system, they were learning through the polyvagal graph.
00:09:43
Speaker
um And I have so many resources for children now that teach them you know about their nervous system states, but the break, they got it. And so we said, when you break,
00:09:54
Speaker
whether you break, you know, you break your car or you you're at a stop sign, you're on your bike and you know, you, you break, you pause and you slow down and you, so and you feel safe because you're you're taking care of your body.
00:10:13
Speaker
So they really began to understand that. And then we began to check in with our aunts every morning after recess, after lunch, before lunch,
00:10:24
Speaker
exiting through the day. So we created polyvagal graph um for, for kids and even has some and Z language. And, um and so that's just one way. I mean, they would, they also um would identify their sensations because sensation, which we define for kids as that's kind of like the language, not kind of, it's the language of the body, but it's physical feelings.
00:10:51
Speaker
So there's a big difference between emotion and sensation. And kids, our younger kids, they get sensation. I mean, they know when they're tingly, hot, prickly, edgy, fast, bubbly, um open, flowing, they get that.
00:11:08
Speaker
So that's another way that they began to check in with their hands. And, you know, for those that are listening, we're going to definitely link to all of ah Dr. Lori's resources for kiddos and educators at the end. So just, just, you know, we'll definitely have that because if if you're, if you're like me, I'm like, Ooh, I want that graph. Like that was my first thought. I want that graph. Um, and so if you're, if you're thinking what I was thinking, we'll link it.
00:11:34
Speaker
Um, and you know, with that, I guess, what did you see happening when you began to kind of bring in this break and show kids and having them check in? Did you see a change? Was there a change in the classroom? Was there a change with the teachers? Was there no change?
00:11:49
Speaker
Oh, we have seen significant change. And what so when we are tapping into the nervous system at the beginning of the day, that's a part of our procedure. so and And I always share with people, I would have, as a young mom, i would have had that polyvagal graph on our refrigerator.
00:12:07
Speaker
I would have had one up in the hallway or in the on the bathroom mirror. This is not just for school. This is for parents and caregivers as well.
Role of Self-awareness and Co-regulation
00:12:15
Speaker
Dan Siegel, Dr. Dan Siegel, who...
00:12:19
Speaker
is known for his work in interpersonal neurobiology, has said for so long, when you can share it, you can bear it. When you name it, you can tame it. And so we're seeing that with our kids.
00:12:30
Speaker
It's like when when you get off the bus, when you get out of your car to come to school, if your nervous system is in a survival state, which is fight, flight, or maybe immobilized shutdown, you're unable to learn, period.
00:12:46
Speaker
You cannot access that break that vagal, social, safe state, and which means you're you're not in the cortex.
00:12:57
Speaker
And if you cannot access the cortex, the prefrontal cortex, it doesn't matter how great the lesson is, but you are unable to do that because you are in a threat and protect response. And we see that all the time.
00:13:12
Speaker
Something happened in the hallway. Something happened by the lockers. Someone bumped into me. Someone gave me a look. whether it's second grade or middle school or high school, we have to, and we call this a warmup to the nervous system.
00:13:27
Speaker
You know, we got to warm up that nervous system to learn. And it's true for us to parent well, to teach well, to lead well, to live well. We have to be able to access um those executive functions that are ah available to us when the break is on the vagus nerve.
00:13:48
Speaker
yeah And I love the image you use with the the actual break. Imagine you carrying that that big break into the into the classroom. But a powerful image, right? And the vagal break is so important. i and I remember when I was taught this was the bike analogy.
00:14:05
Speaker
was that bike that helps you slow down when you're going down the hill and the use of it. But um you know as we think about coming back um back to school, right which is, in my mind, I feel like quickly approaching really soon,
00:14:18
Speaker
um what are some things that educators should maybe better understand about preparing the nervous system for learning and retention?
00:14:29
Speaker
Well, I, I think, um, that we have to understand that we all carry in our anxiety. We carry in our worries. Um, we can't drop those at the door, whether, you know, we are adults or children and some of the new work that we're doing. Um, in fact, I just, I picked this up. This is,
00:14:49
Speaker
Well, Dr. Porges actually wrote the foreword to Intentional Neuroplasticity. But since that book was written, this is our new manual and it's called Body and Brain Brilliance. And this is a manual for, so we wrote it there for my graduate students and I together collaborated, but it's filled with practices for parents, caregivers, educators, and it's a digital library library.
00:15:18
Speaker
with every graphic that's printable, that's, you know, can be made, used in any way. But back to your question, we have to be able to, and this is going to sound like the greatest intervention practice that we can give to our students as we return to school is to do our own work as adults.
00:15:42
Speaker
um And we have to be, we have to be, um in a nervous system state of awareness, not necessarily regulated because that's not, that word has become kind of trendy and buzzy.
00:15:55
Speaker
um But awareness is critical. So when we are aware that our heart's racing, when we are aware that we're starting to feel hot or we can't get a deep breath, um we need to be able to anchor ourselves. And actually the first chapter in this manual is for the adult nervous systems.
00:16:14
Speaker
as we move into practices for children and adolescents. Yeah. And I think that's the reframe of awareness. And it's funny you say that because I use that word all the time in my work because similar to your point is to say that we're always regulated is not even realistic um because then it could be like a shame thing. and well if I'm not regulated, well, then what? Versus if I'm more aware, um I then have the capacity to choose or the capacity to understand what's going on in my life. And you're right, because teachers are bringing in their stuff. They they have life beyond the classroom.
00:16:52
Speaker
um I bring in my stuff as ah as a therapist, as a coach. And so if we become aware of it, it gives us the understanding and in a way to say, oh, that's what's here with me right now.
00:17:03
Speaker
I could acknowledge that. And also, what do I need in this moment so I can show up for these kiddos if I'm a teacher or a parent?
Modeling Behavior and Neurodiversity
00:17:13
Speaker
um Because as a parent myself, I have stuff going on in life and like and my you know and I could feel that coming up when I have to go in and parent my children.
00:17:22
Speaker
um And that could easily bleed in and overwhelm my capacity to be effective. Or I could say, here it is, and what do I need to do to help me prep for this moment because my kiddo needs me more in this moment? Or if I'm a teacher, my students are needing me more in this moment. And so, you know, I guess what what does it look like for a teacher and or parent to be an effective co-regulator and why is it so important?
00:17:50
Speaker
Well, we know emotions are contagious and we've known that for several decades. um Actually, Dr. Nicholas Long and Larry Brintrow wrote about that in the early 2000s.
00:18:02
Speaker
um ah Some of the newer research that's coming out is that we know cortisol, which is a stress hormone, leaks from the skin. And this is, you know, i when when we share this with our students and they're amazed.
00:18:17
Speaker
I mean, they that it makes sense to them. Because if you're standing by the lockers or if everyone's out on the playground and somebody is, you know, a bit rough, as we say in our house, um you know, it you can feel it. And we know that we can feel tension.
00:18:34
Speaker
We can feel ah collective survival state. and And so, you know, that's thats it's so critical um to provide the science to staff and students to together.
00:18:50
Speaker
And I really want to emphasize that for teachers because sometimes teachers will say, well, Lori, I don't know polyvagal. You know, how can I teach this? You know, or I don't understand the neuroscience well enough to teach it.
00:19:03
Speaker
And that was a point we made in this manual. And I say to them, it's a touch point. The kids love that you don't know. They love that they get to learn with you, that you're not teaching this, but they can learn beside you.
00:19:18
Speaker
and And that's the most, when you say, wow I'm not sure i like in the mornings when you can share in an appropriate way, like you're not going to open up everything, but when you can say, you know what? i have had a hard morning before I came into our classroom.
00:19:36
Speaker
So I am going to take a deep breath right now and grab a mint. So just give me a minute. That's the best modeling for our children. To know that we're working together.
00:19:49
Speaker
We're not in front of each other. We are collectively um sharing in these practices of co-regulation. Yeah, it's it's it's in the doing versus the telling, right? It's the modeling versus just
00:20:04
Speaker
dictating to um because that's having young children, they watch everything. um And I think it's really more through what they see dad doing or mom doing or the teacher doing.
00:20:15
Speaker
um And even I think, like you said, spelling it out. Hey, had a rough morning. I'm take a pause and breathe. So keeping it simple and then doing it. And that's I think it's a great teacher versus just going through a slide deck with a bunch of you know eight-year-olds. um Not that that's bad. I mean, of course, they like pictures and images. But I think case in point, um they learn through doing, I think, more so versus just speaking to.
00:20:40
Speaker
um it's Something that kind of tying in what you to kind of the present with education and the school system and some of your earlier experiences journey of working with kids on the spectrum.
00:20:52
Speaker
I think you mentioned this, I guess. I always think of how can schools move beyond maybe like this kind of everyone needs to do a certain thing and how do we better approach and support neurodiverse children?
00:21:09
Speaker
Well, it's so one of the things in the applied educational neuroscience framework, um it is a framework that is trauma accommodating. It is tier one, which in our schools, educators know that term pretty much globally in that it's for all of us.
00:21:27
Speaker
And then it is neurodiversity affirming. And what we're learning today is that, and and not just today, but I think, I thank goodness for the growing awareness.
00:21:39
Speaker
um But, you know, neurodiversity is a huge umbrella and it there are so many facets and, unique ways that the brain and the body learn and process and perceive and behave and it experience the world.
00:21:58
Speaker
and And so as educators, um when we're teaching, we cannot afford not to tap in to the unique assets and strengths of our children, um of of our neurodiverse ah students.
00:22:14
Speaker
And so, um and we want to be very careful there because oftentimes we, I've seen educators call it a superpower. And I don't like that because it's, I don't want to elevate it to that, to, to thinking that neurodiversity is a superpower. I want it to be recognized as a unique, um beautiful way of processing, learning, engaging.
00:22:42
Speaker
And so that's, That's kind of a long answer to your question, but um that's that's what I love about um the framework, the Applied Educational Neuroscience framework.
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah. but And with that framework, ah since you've um hinted and spoken about can you give a quick ah rundown of, it sounds like there's four pillars or could you quick give a quick like, oh, here's the framework and.
00:23:06
Speaker
Yeah. So, um so the four, there are four pillars that really lean into each other. And polyvagal is a significant part of the framework because they are just so aligned. But the very first pillar is the adult nervous system.
00:23:22
Speaker
And we know, and you know, we yeah people have heard this for so long, but a dysregulated adult cannot regulate a dysregulated child. um We can't do it. We get compliance and we get obedience, but we're not getting so sustainable shifts in mental, emotional and cognitive and physiological health.
00:23:43
Speaker
So we really focus on the adult nervous system. In fact, we've created a new kind of but a framework within a framework called multi-tiered systems of support for adults, whether you are a counselor, social worker, therapist, anyone who works beside children and youth. um The second pillar is co-regulation.
00:24:03
Speaker
And this is at the heart of discipline. And this is where Polyvagal really informs applied educational neuroscience because and And I love the question Deb Dana it has asked for so long. and And the question is, is my nervous system strong enough to hold us both for a few minutes?
00:24:25
Speaker
and For teachers, um for paraprofessionals, for administrators, and our school staff, to to really reflect upon that question is critical because oftentimes we are disciplining and consequencing when we're in survival states, fight, flight, or shut down.
00:24:43
Speaker
and the student is in a fight, flight, or shutdown.
Challenges and Applications in Education
00:24:46
Speaker
So that's the second pillar. The third pillar um are what we call touch points. And those are those micro moments of connection.
00:24:54
Speaker
Dr. Bruce Perry talks about this a lot. He'll say, and i just heard um i just heard him speak to this to a high school um in Chicago. And you know he said, if we understood the power of 10-second presence,
00:25:12
Speaker
um it It matters when when we can give our undivided full presence to a child, even for 10, 15 seconds, it it changes the biology.
00:25:24
Speaker
Because when any of us feel seen and heard and felt, you know we do well. So if that child has five adults for 10 or 15 seconds throughout the day, just tuning in, attending to their nervous system,
00:25:42
Speaker
it it's It's a huge shift in cognition and behavior and um hopefully in emotional shifts as well.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. thanks Thanks for sharing more about the the four pillars. and And I forgot the fourth pillar. Oh, yeah. Yeah. The fourth pillar is the language of the nervous system, which is sensation, which I mentioned.
00:26:05
Speaker
Yeah. And then obviously there's more, more in depth work on this, but it's things like brief, quick overview. And obviously this has been a lot of your work has been this, these four pillars and bringing that into the classroom. And, you know, you're back in the classroom now, not only teaching the university, but I'm kind of coming in and co-teaching and showing this and kind of boots on the ground, really implementing it into your local school system, I'm assuming. And,
00:26:30
Speaker
and I guess the question is how open are other school systems to like this type of framework? Is it easy to get into different different school systems? is it Is it kind of a challenge? Are there barriers to this implementation?
00:26:46
Speaker
Well, it's a great question, Travis. And I find it it's all of the all of what you mentioned. um You you have to been you know you have to kind of look at where we ben too in our country. and And I do a lot of global work as well. But um resistance, we are oftentimes this work can be met with resistance from the adults, because as an educator, you came into the profession, hopefully because you love to work with children, but also for middle and high school teachers, they also are their their content experts.
00:27:28
Speaker
And so been then it's been challenging um when educators will see behaviors that they misunderstand.
00:27:38
Speaker
um we might call those manipulative or disrespectful or oppositional or defiant. And they look that way. But if we are not delving beneath the behavior, then we're not building that connection um because so many of our kids come into our schools with relational poverty.
00:27:59
Speaker
And, um You know, when we think about how attachment carries development and the work of, you know, Dr. Alan Shore and, you know, Volby and, you know, we we are social creatures, which we talk about in Polyvagal. We're communal creatures. We can't survive without each other.
00:28:19
Speaker
So um the the work is met with some resistance. But I want to say this, that educators are also hungry. for ways to connect and to really embody the work so that the behaviors settle down.
00:28:38
Speaker
Because we have seen a lot of chronic fatigue and overwhelmed burnout teachers leaving the profession. And I get it because I am in the classroom. I mean, it's when you've got a classroom 38-year-olds and you've got four popping off.
00:28:56
Speaker
um I mean, it's just, it's, it's almost next to impossible. And that's why I think every college professor who works with pre-service teachers should be in the classroom at least once or twice a year.
00:29:12
Speaker
and mean, you just lose touch. Yeah. and And to get practical for a second. And then agree. I think, um, you know If we're only teaching and not in it, it's hard to, I think sometimes we can lose touch if we're just teaching about a subject versus, okay, well, let me get in it and what do I need?
00:29:30
Speaker
And i'm if you if you don't mind, I'm wondering, you know let's say hypothetically you have a day which probably happened. This could happen. off I mean, I have three kids. I've had it where all three kids. um in a dysregulated state and it it could feel like who am i choosing go regulate with so if you're a teacher in a classroom with 30 which is pretty common maybe even 40 and i feel my wife was an elementary school teacher for a number of years so i feel like i i know what it's like um from her sharing and it's a lot it's a lot of pressure on a teacher from the school from parents from kids from
00:30:06
Speaker
There's a lot of weight. And so let's say you're in a day, 30 to 40 kids, and you got four to five or six just struggling and you're in the classroom. What is something that you have found to be an effective or helpful strategy help you engage those kids and yourself in those moments?
00:30:26
Speaker
Well, there are many practices that we share, but if there is a moment where there's just complete chaos and I'm unable to teach We just pause.
00:30:37
Speaker
We just stop. And we, um you know, if I mean, whether I will encourage some deep breaths and then I might pull out a book and start reading to them. We use distraction.
00:30:49
Speaker
We use um we were the pause. The presence pause is so powerful. um Oftentimes I'll pull up a YouTube video. ah There's one that the kids and adults have called what to do with the angry monster. um You should try this at home.
00:31:06
Speaker
And I play the first minute and then I have the kids guess the ending or, you know, and they have to. produce So I'm really refocusing and um just really helping them to get back to the cortex.
00:31:18
Speaker
I'm also sharing, um you know, my own frustration as well. But I want to step back, Travis, because that's ah when when you've got like four or five or six or seven or eight kids out of 40 popping off or spazzing, you know, then your crisis teaching.
00:31:35
Speaker
One of the things that we are doing is we are using morning meetings. We're using our procedures. We're using exits, transitions throughout a school day. That's discipline on the front end.
00:31:47
Speaker
And so when you're building, like when they're checking in with their nervous system, when they are grabbing, um when they're coloring, that's so like the that activates the vagus nerve, puts the brake on it.
00:32:00
Speaker
When they are journaling, when they are listening to some music as we come in, when we are crunching on something, that oral muscular input, like a hard pretzel, or you know just having a snack together, a cold bottle of water.
00:32:15
Speaker
um There are so many in the moment practices. And we really, we call that anchoring ourselves, resourcing ourselves, nourishing the nervous system.
00:32:26
Speaker
That's a tier one practice. And that's for everybody. That's how we get everyone to begin to use their, um we caught we have these amygdala reset bag or like amygdala reset areas and then amygdala bags.
00:32:42
Speaker
And so everyone has their own and um everyone, you know, has an opportunity to um you know, take those few minutes before we start content learning and we warm up the nervous system.
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah. The reason I asked that question is i think that's a a common occurrence with teaching 30 to 40 kids and how do you meet um where they are and having distracting techniques or things that help reset the nervous system and or having kids trained already with having these bags or spaces. And I think that's important because when we think of you know creating safety or calm in the classroom in schools, um that's a big question. Like, how do we do that? How do we create this? And you kind of mentioned that we do it on our meetings. We do it in our prep work. we're kind of
00:33:35
Speaker
It's integrated into all day long from beginning to end. um And that's what you've been doing. And that's kind of you know where some school systems are still kind of resistant for various reasons to doing and implementing a strategy such as this.
00:33:51
Speaker
But it sounds like it's really, it's interwoven into the whole day. It's not just like a one intervention. Because that that because that's where I could see a struggle is if if there's like and ah maybe in a school setting where they're not open to incorporating some model similar to this or this model in particular.
00:34:08
Speaker
But maybe you teacher who's into this, like who's a polyvagal nerd and tries implement this. You know, it could still have an impact, but it's gonna be really hard, I think, because she's the she or he might be fighting against a a bigger system here that it's like they're trying to change in their little classroom, which can be effective at the same time when they go out.
00:34:25
Speaker
What's the rest of the system doing behind them? And is it adding to it or is it, you know, is it adding to it in in ah in a positive, effective way? Or is it kind of contributing in a way that's creating more distress?
00:34:38
Speaker
Well, in in that and that's a great question because that's the challenge um is that in our schools, there's such a focus on, you know, testing, cognition, academic performance that, you know, you could be doing, you know, you could be cultivating these practices of felt safety in your classroom.
00:35:01
Speaker
But then when the child enters or when the adolescent moves, you know, into another classroom, And the unpredictability and the inconsistency of those procedures is a challenge for schools. And that is why administrators, this is when I am working with schools and districts, I always will say if there is not administration on board or you know leadership present for this preparation and training, then you know it's it's it's going to fall flat.
00:35:31
Speaker
um One other thing I wanted to share a huge part of this work and I shared this with Dr. Porges when he came um to Butler is and in schools, if you use the term meditation or if you even mindfulness seems a little fuzzy to some academicians, um you know, and I'm not a big fan of, you know, in fact, I avoid using meditation, that term in schools just because it's so misunderstood. And really what meditation is,
00:36:04
Speaker
is a focused attention practice. And so we have an acronym for that. It's capital F, little O, capital A, capital P. And so we coined this about 15 years ago.
00:36:16
Speaker
And we have energizing focused attention practices and studying focused attention practices. um And that, and on my website, there are probably 500 of them.
00:36:29
Speaker
But what I wanted to share is that that is how we we We model these for our kids and they will share with their caregivers or their parents. um And so we have, you know, what's the weather in your room? If everyone is, you know, really amped up and mobilizing a lot of energy, then we want one that's studying.
00:36:49
Speaker
If everyone walks in sleepy and sluggish, then we want an energizing focused attention practice. So that's um how we, that's a part of our procedures.
00:37:00
Speaker
That's how we end the day. That's how we transition through the day. The kids start to lead them. um You start maybe with five seconds. You might build up to 30 seconds and then a minute.
00:37:12
Speaker
But it' it's ah it's a huge part of this framework. And it's where our kids start to feel empowered. They might resist at first. And so do our staff as well.
00:37:24
Speaker
Yeah, know I like that focus attention practices of the which is another way, i think a clever way, but a more, um, less barrier way of getting to breath work, meditation practices, mindfulness practices.
00:37:37
Speaker
And I like that it's either studying, right. Or energizing. Cause it gives them an option, a choice of here's what we're doing. Um, and I love that, that language and you have, again, so many practices, whether it's student led or teacher letter, and you're right. I think we need administrators. It'd be kind of like if I'm trying to help a a child,
00:37:55
Speaker
or a teen in parenting, but the parents aren't on board with changing. That's really hard. I'm not going to do much work because the system that has the most power daily is like, I can't, my impacts me very little because, you know, if I see a kid once a week, 45 minutes, but 99% of the time, the system at large is not on board with, Hey, let's explore something and try something different. It's the impacts me tough.
Movement, Breath, and Biological Impact
00:38:24
Speaker
um And so we really need everyone on board to be open to this. And I'm sure that's, I know that's a challenge, I'm sure, um and your work and in our work. um But I do love that focus and practices. I think that's so, so great. And remind me again, it was capital F, lowercase O. What was it again? The acronym?
00:38:43
Speaker
Capital F, lowercase O, capital A, capital Okay. Cool. Yeah. And so I write for Edutopia. I don't know if you're familiar with Edutopia. do a lot of work for them. It's an online educational platform.
00:38:58
Speaker
And so um a lot of um the focused attention practices, well, so many are on the um my website, but they also, if you, I've written so many articles about focused attention practices for Edutopia.
00:39:13
Speaker
and And the other thing that we all know, I mean, this is not new. It's movement that matters. It's movement and breath that change our biology. and um And we share the plasticity of the nervous system. And I love that.
00:39:29
Speaker
Again, Deb Dana was the one that really shifted the focus from plasticity of the brain to plasticity of the nervous system. um And because it's not just the brain.
00:39:40
Speaker
And kelly Dr. Kelly McGonigal talks about hope molecules. And um I love this and our kids love it. They think it's amazing that when they are moving, whether you are hiking, walking, swimming, biking, ah like literally a five minute walk, when you are moving your body, your muscles contract.
00:40:04
Speaker
And when your muscles contract, they produce a protein that protects you against depression and begins to build resiliency. So here in i like in When I'm in my classroom here, we are i talk to them about you have your own pharmacy in your body.
00:40:23
Speaker
like This is amazing. The kids think that's hilarious. You have your own Walgreens, your own CVS in your body. You can call up cortisol and adrenaline, but you can also call up serotonin. They know that's a neurotransmitter that's a mood stabilizer.
00:40:40
Speaker
They know serotonin um can be activated through movement. um Faster than any other way. i mean, maybe be breath too. And then we talk about dopamine um networks. So it this is where it's called psychoeducation. I'm sure you know that. And that's where we're teaching our kids.
00:40:59
Speaker
You know, when you have the science, if you you can embody it and you can engage with the work. And that's been a big change in our school. Yeah. Yeah, when you have the science, you can embody it. I love that.
00:41:11
Speaker
And one kind of final question that it's a curiosity question with you, um and then we'll wrap up, is that what is something new emerging in your work now that you're excited about?
00:41:23
Speaker
um i Well, i'm I'm very excited about this manual, Body and Brain Brilliance, and also about the brand new, in fact, I just posted on my social media this morning, Multi-Tiered Systems of Support for Adults.
00:41:37
Speaker
So I'm going to be in Rappahannock, Virginia this summer at Lawrence Township. And we're really taking the work into schools and we're working with adults. um And I want to end with this. I love Resmaa Menekum, who's a trauma therapist in Minneapolis and or Minnesota.
00:41:54
Speaker
think he's in Minneapolis. And in his book, My Grandmother's Hands, um he shares this quote and I just love it. And he says, settled adults have settled kids.
00:42:06
Speaker
And when we take that into polyvagal, um yeah and whether it's in our families, whether that's in our schools, whether that is you know in our organizations and our communities, not only do we hold individual nervous system states, but together we hold collective nervous system states.
00:42:25
Speaker
And I think that's what Resmaa Menekum is referring to. We can collectively be in fight flight as a family. We can collectively be in stillness, a blended state. We can collectively be in play.
00:42:36
Speaker
But it's really so critical to recognize how powerful our nervous system states are positively and or negatively um when we are in close proximity.
Resources and Conclusion
00:42:50
Speaker
Thanks for sharing that. That is an excellent quote. um The collective. Yeah. Yeah. And i'm wondering if people want to get in touch with your work, where can we find you? If people like, I want to follow what she's doing. I want to get in touch. I want her resources. Where, where should we go?
00:43:10
Speaker
Well, my website is revelationsineducation.com. And, um, and then I always encourage people to follow me on Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, uh, X and blue social.
00:43:24
Speaker
So, um yeah, I post really i use social media as a platform to share resources. So. um Yeah.
00:43:35
Speaker
Well, for those that are listening and watching, all those links will be in the description um to find her work, to follow, to get this wonderful new book or newer book.
00:43:46
Speaker
um If you want to buy one and purchase one or get all the resources or all the free stuff that she is posting all the time. And so um i just want to thank you, Lori, for the conversation today and and just kind of inviting us into your world and what you're passionate about. And I think...
00:44:03
Speaker
I think I know the important work that you're doing, having small children, the importance of teaching this at a young age versus those that have never been taught this type of stuff at a young age and and the difference that can make like this is a very, this is, we're setting the foundation for thriving adults that have more capacity, more agency, more awareness, more tools, more connectedness.
00:44:29
Speaker
um So when they're in their 30s and forty s there's a lot of less stuff they have to work through because they've been taught at a young age. It's normalizing kind of the nervous system. So I am so stoked for the work that you're doing. And we need more of that out here in California. I think I want to bring some of that energy.
00:44:45
Speaker
um But I just bless your work and that keep doing what you're doing. So thank you so much. Yeah, Travis, thank you so much. It was so fun and an honor to share this conversation. Thank you Thank you for listening to Wired For Connection, a Polyvagal podcast.
00:45:01
Speaker
This show is produced by the Polyvagal Institute, an international nonprofit organization dedicated to creating a safer and more connected world. PVI provides education, resources, and community to those interested in learning more about polyvagal theory and applying polyvagal principles in personal and professional contexts.
00:45:23
Speaker
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00:45:34
Speaker
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00:45:47
Speaker
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