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Our Gut-Brain Connection & How it Relates to Polyvagal Theory
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In this episode of Wired for Connection, BG Mancini, a neuro integrative medicine provider, discusses the intricate relationship between gut health, the nervous system, and emotional well-being with host Travis. BG shares her insights on the impacts of stress on the microbiome and how it can lead to inflammation, affecting both physical and emotional health.
3 Key Takeaways:
- The Brain-Gut Axis: BG emphasizes the critical link between our gut and brain. Stress can erode the microbiome's lining, leading to inflammation that acts as an alarm system. This inflammation can affect brain function and emotional regulation, highlighting the importance of gut health in our overall well-being.
- Importance of Diversity in Diet: Introducing a variety of fibers and whole foods into our diet can significantly enhance gut health. BG suggests that diversity in what we eat supports a robust microbiome, which in turn aids in better digestion and nutrient absorption, supporting a balanced mental state.
- Tailored Approaches to Health Improvement: BG introduces the concept of starting small, with manageable changes that can lead to significant health benefits. Whether it's through dietary adjustments, physical activity, or sensory modifications, finding an entry point that suits an individual's current lifestyle is crucial.
Explore and become more conscious of your body's signals and start small with integrating healthier habits. Consider checking out BG Mancini’s upcoming course to dive deeper into gut health, emotional resilience, and nervous system function for more tailored guidance.
These insights underline the importance of understanding the linkage between our physiological state and our mental health, encouraging a more integrated approach to well-being.
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Email: community@polyvagal.org
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Transcript
Stress and Gut Health
00:00:00
Speaker
Stress is the number one thing that starts to erode the microbiome's lining and create inflammation. So if that's happening, then we don't have the ability to, in the small intestine, uptake the nutrition.
00:00:14
Speaker
you know Or we have holes in our microbiome's lining, which is allowing different food particles, different chemicals, things that are supposed to be transferd transferred out of the body to go into the matrix of our body, and that creates inflammation.
00:00:29
Speaker
Inflammation in our body is basically an alarm bell. That is BG Mancini, a neuro integrative medicine provider with nearly 30 years of experience supporting children and families.
00:00:43
Speaker
She's advanced certified in functional medicine, an acupuncture physician, and the creator of the family nervous system. BG specializes in helping people understand the connection between gut health, sensory input and nervous system regulation, guiding them towards deeper connection, safety and resilience.
Introduction to BG Mancini
00:01:07
Speaker
Welcome to Wired for Connection, a Polyvagal podcast. I am your host and my name is Travis. So BGM is so excited to be able to talk to you today and kind of what we're doing here at Wired for Connection. And I think having you on as part of the, just the kind of foundation and kind of opening our eyes a bit to the integration of polyvagal theory going to be really fun episode.
Journey to Polyvagal Theory
00:01:32
Speaker
And so what I would love to know is kind of what led you specifically to use polyvagal theory as a lens into like gut health and neuro integrative medicine. Can you tell us a bit about like what got you there?
00:01:44
Speaker
Sure. So I found polyvagal theory actually through working with Dr. Porges's SSP program when I was really focused on working with children with autism.
00:01:55
Speaker
And so when I started entering into that world through SSP, I then learned all about polyvagal theory And the concept, and you know Dr. Porteous had done work specifically with autistic individuals many years before.
00:02:09
Speaker
and so then I learned you know from his perspective that there was this trauma response that was occurring and impacting the neurodevelopment, the ability to express and connect.
00:02:21
Speaker
And that really sort of just folded in like a torn and echoed into everything that I started re-looking at what I was doing and what i reimagined is that actually what I had been doing for, you know, um now almost 30 years is actually helping individuals to create safety in their body as their experience so that they could then, you know, reemerge as themselves and connect and make more meaningful relationships.
00:02:49
Speaker
And what what were you doing for 30 years prior to like discovering Stephen Porges' SSP?
Nutrition and Polyvagal Integration
00:02:54
Speaker
So I have been working with nutrition, lifestyle changes, This goes back to macrobiotic days, you know, where Michio Kushi was one of my first teachers and, you know, understanding and, you know, he was very far ahead of his time.
00:03:09
Speaker
And when I look back at what I learned from him, it was very congruent with polyvagal theory. know, he talked about eating in community, you know, being outside in nature, which he didn't use the word co-regulating, but that he said helped to harmonize our nervous systems.
00:03:26
Speaker
And he talked about eating in season, you know, the foods that were around us, because it helped us to connect more deeply with our environment. And so even though the language and and he was primarily Japanese speaker, but the language was still there. And it's why I so deeply connected with his work.
00:03:43
Speaker
And then from there, I went, I studied Chinese medicine, studied health sciences, and then ultimately, you know, blended all this into what I'm doing today. yeah it's this Yeah, it's interesting this the hearing the story of like where you started, that there's this kind of and truth, if you will, that you've you've heard in different spaces and seeing how really it's the same thing, it's different language.
Community and Co-regulation
00:04:08
Speaker
And that's where yeahre leading up to the point of using SSP and polyvagal theory was that kind of integration or synthesis of the of really all of it.
00:04:15
Speaker
It's so fascinating that I like that eating in community, right? That in nature, that same, that very much aligns with kind of co-regulation and nervous system response that, exactly you know, when we're safe enough, we can eat and have a shared meal, which, you know, in a way is communicating safety with people and that kind of connection.
00:04:33
Speaker
Right. And being in that community was, it was one of the most joyful times in my life because we all, you know, worked together, we cooked together, we ate together and, you know, we were in a beautiful setting in the mountains and that really, you know, it's some of the, one of the images that I always have, you know, when i'm cooking dinner for my family,
00:04:51
Speaker
is I imagine there's like a video camera above my head at the stove, and then it sort of pulls up onto my street. There's lots of us at the stoves down our street, and then it pulls up to the community and to the state, to the world, you know, and but we're all in our separate isolated spaces doing that same thing.
00:05:09
Speaker
Whereas, you know, not that long ago in our evolutionary history, were we doing these things together? And what a difference that might feel like for me. For my family, you know, playing with other kids in that moment and all of us sharing that meal together.
00:05:22
Speaker
You know, I like that zooming out of like you see this this connection, even though there's some disconnection between our modern day, you could still feel this connection and resonate with what other people are doing in their homes.
00:05:35
Speaker
So it's not so isolative. And I have similar practices with some kind of meditative prayer practices. practices that I do that I know that people around the globe are doing this very thing.
Shared Practices and Isolation
00:05:45
Speaker
So I feel the sense of connection, almost of what Dan Siegel talks about, this kind of interconnection with things, not just me, this body, but there's a connection with nature, with the world, with the community of that when we can have that perspective really does.
00:05:58
Speaker
you It kind of can help fight isolation and loneliness because it's like, no, there's people doing this thing. And I'm a part of something bigger than myself, whether I'm cooking food, eating and community,
00:06:09
Speaker
Now that I think there is something to say that actually eating in a community, it obviously is, I think, more intention of what we're intended to do, but we could still have that sense of connection bigger than ourself. And what you just said is really important because you know when we eat in community, our digestive enzymes are different.
00:06:28
Speaker
you know When we are laughing and enjoying and smiling, right we know that the chemical cocktail that's coursing through us in order to break down, absorb, and utilize our food is completely different. And so the difference between eating and ah either with your family or with a community or the different mood that we're in when we're eating makes nutrition completely differently available.
00:06:50
Speaker
And so I would say for sure that if that opportunity is there to do that, or even the difference between sitting in front of a computer rather than actually tasting our food, paying attention to what we're eating, chewing our food.
00:07:04
Speaker
you know, this is where our starches get broken down. And so, you know, I always say like, this is the entry point, actually the entry point for all digestion is what we look at, right? Because our, our, our body is already aware, right? Predictably what's going to happen when that food enters.
00:07:19
Speaker
And I guess you could say like thinking about it, because sometimes that also can, you know, we trigger that digestive process, but when it goes in and we're chewing and if we're, you know, how we're breathing, all of that plays into the role of our health of our microbiome of our overall digestive process.
Chronic Stress Cycle
00:07:36
Speaker
And as a quick little, you know, your kind of trailer, so to speak, of what we're going to talk about today, like exactly, it's, it's, let's just dump jumping into that more like this connection between, you know, I'm already giving the image of like, you're right, like, as I look at food, there is things happening and what is my mood and So I want to talk a bit more about that because i think it's so important in the work that you've done that maybe people aren't really thinking about or aware of, but that connection between gut and brain and our nervous system state. Like, you know, i think one of the first things I think about is, especially since often we're looking at, you know, kind of dysregulation and how do we move toward regulation. So i'm wondering how dysregulation,
00:08:14
Speaker
in the nervous system, how does that contribute to like gut issues or GI issues or digestive issues? Like how does that interplay and what do you see happening in like the clients you work with? So I would say, you know, of course, Steve talks about, you know, the neuroceptive lens or our neuroception, right? And so, you know, when I, when I hear the word, you know, dysregulation,
00:08:36
Speaker
it's of course, that's like ah a flowing state, right? We're always moving through or I think as some people like to think of it as a pendulum, you know between things. And so, you know, when I'm in a state that I feel at ease and I'm in that rest and digest, you know, more towards a parasympathetic engagement state, then we are biologically available to then create the right chemicals to break down our food,
00:09:03
Speaker
peristalsis which is controlled by the vagus nerve and various parts of the brain something called central pattern generators and then what is happening in the muscles of the stomach themselves you know since that all is happening automatically autonomically right and so then goes down to the gut and whether or not we're we're creating enzymes to break the food down but also you know, stress is the number one thing that starts to erode the microbiome's lining, okay, and create inflammation.
00:09:35
Speaker
So if that's happening, then we don't have the ability to, in the small intestine, uptake the nutrition, you know, or we have holes in our microbiome's lining, which is allowing different food particles, different chemicals, things that are supposed to be transferd transferred out of the body to go into the matrix of our body, and that creates inflammation.
00:09:57
Speaker
inflammation in our body is basically an alarm bell. I love how Steve calls it, you know, end or end organ damage or end organ involvement, right? Because that inflammation that's now occurred because of this one process becomes a systemic inflammation.
00:10:13
Speaker
And since our gut is what is conveying right up to the brain, so many of our a large part of our signaling, then once it gets there, the brain is interpreted some type of a threat And now that again goes back into the gut and triggers more inflammation.
00:10:29
Speaker
Essentially, I mean, I'm making I'm breaking it down in a very simplistic way. Yeah, yeah. Well, I think even when I hear that, it's like, I don't know how off how much we're taught about that, the connection between nervous system state and gut health and how that has a direct impact on brain ah mood.
Gut-Brain Connection
00:10:47
Speaker
digest them and then how it can create, you know, in this example, feedback loop of just like staying stuck in just, it's kind of feeds it. It's like a poison that keeps going back and forth because then you're stuck in dysregulation. The gut makes more stress than that creates more.
00:11:01
Speaker
It, and I could see now how people can get so stuck in having inflammation issues. And I'm like, can you, can you speak a little bit more about the, like breaking it down even more with the influence of how the gut influences mood or brain function or emotional emotional resilience or emotional expression. Because I think that's something that myself included, like we're not thinking about like, ooh, my gut and that this is having an impact on me right now. I don' i think there's some level ah disconnection or lack of awareness of like, oh, I need to pay attention to that.
00:11:35
Speaker
Right. Well, so you just said so many, I'd like to unpack that a little bit. thank Yeah, please do. Yeah. So you said the disconnection, right? So there's a reason why we talk about our gut feelings.
00:11:46
Speaker
And I always say that our interoceptive cues, the signals that we're receiving consciously or unconsciously from inside of our body, were meant to lovingly guide us, right? So that we can make adjustments, either what we were intaking or what's around us to then create more homeostasis.
00:12:06
Speaker
However, I think what's happened I have no exact evidence of this, but I think what's happened is that we have received so many, we are living in a time where our input through our senses, our you know our five senses, through our app proprioception has changed and we don't move around as much necessarily. The environment around us, light, you know artificial lighting and how that impacts our ah melatonin and our circadian rhythm and then our sleep.
00:12:35
Speaker
You know, all of this is intricately tied together. So turn i think a lot of people and turn away from those cues. So in other words, I sense something, it's not comfortable.
00:12:46
Speaker
And so I don't want to feel it. And so I'm going to use my phone as an adaptive mechanism to sort of check out, or I'm going to binge watch something, or I'm going to drink a bottle of wine, or engage in some kind of behavior to create relief from the concern or the actual inflamed feeling that I'm sensing.
00:13:04
Speaker
Does that... Yeah, no, that's true. Yeah, that's what makes sense. um It makes sense that, yeah, that gut that gut sense and how we too, we we avoid it because we either we're unfamiliar with it or don't know what to do with it or don't know what it's trying to communicate to us, but we know it doesn't feel good or right you know it feels uncomfortable I don't like it or something's off. And so it's just another stressor. And so I just need to you know check out too now, especially if that's been my primary mechanism of just like managing the stress of life is just to keep going there. And that could
00:13:37
Speaker
if we're disconnected from what our body's trying to say, especially the gut, I mean, we're just, we're going to keep every time we sense that it's like an auto responsive, okay, check out, tune out, binge watch, whatever, drink, eat.
00:13:49
Speaker
And there might even need more food that exacerbates it too. Like I could imagine people eat, ah you know, they overeat or something and then now it's exacerbating it and then you have the emotions tied to it. So how, how does that connect? Yeah.
00:14:02
Speaker
So, you know, and I, I make this point um to sort of lead into that, If someone has a traumatic brain injury with the research shows that within 48 hours, there's going to be gut involvement.
00:14:14
Speaker
Now, the reason that's so key is because if you think about traumatic brain injury, actually on a QEG can also look like chronic stress and look, you know, because there's, there's different parts of the brain, of course, in a TBI that can be impacted, but repeated and high levels of stress start to take on this trauma injury type of pattern.
00:14:36
Speaker
and So the reason that happens is because of the brain gut access, right? You know, it it is literally all connected.
Addiction and Food
00:14:44
Speaker
And I think what a lot of people are experiencing now is this either low level or high level anxiety. There is this feeling of not wanting to stay in our body. We want to keep checking out because we have so much input.
00:14:59
Speaker
And our nervous system is not sure how to come back into regulation. So first of all, the research right now is finally catching up. The microbiome research can actually show patterns associated with specific addictions. So it's a microbiome pattern that's different for heroin, for alcohol, for cocaine, a microbiome pattern that's different for um schizophrenia versus anxiety versus depression, right? So there's Now, chicken or the egg, right?
00:15:30
Speaker
But it's all, but either way, because whatever it is, whether that pattern then caused that person to start to move into that but direction, and it's always and, and that is now creating that feedback loop that's exacerbating the situation, right?
00:15:47
Speaker
yeah And so then what happens is the chemical cocktails that are getting created are brilliant brains have these receptors, right? So then if you are creating if the stress chemical cocktail is a very potent one, right?
00:16:03
Speaker
So if we have, we are under that chronic stress all the time, our brilliant brain receptors essentially alter themselves and make more of those receptors that are now craving that chemical cocktail, just like it's a drug.
00:16:17
Speaker
And so i've I've had people tell me, yeah, you know I'll be feeling a little bit better and then I'll have an anxious thought. And then if I roll with that thought, I can feel this rush, you know, and it's it's almost fulfilling its purpose. And the interesting thing to me is that there are certain foods that have the same same effects, right? So gluten and dairy actually hit some of the same receptors as heroin.
00:16:43
Speaker
So I've had people go through, and know, they call it the gluten flu or dairy detox because their milk butrophilin is actually an addictive component to it. and our our brain and it's why people like you know we when we eat ice cream or we eat a piece of cake or something it's not just the sugar it's actually this endorphin rush that happens in our brain Interesting.
00:17:08
Speaker
Well, and just to, you know, it makes me think as you're talking, you know, so many clients I've worked with, you know, change is hard because to change, it's like like that. I think of sometimes that cocktail, that intense rush isn't always there when they're trying to do something that might be more holistically
Media Impact on Nervous System
00:17:27
Speaker
healthier for them. Even to get to ventral, think,
00:17:31
Speaker
And initially, I've seen where it's sometimes can be harder because it's like it's unfamiliar in that cocktail where they're maybe used to having such hit high hits of this kind of intense cocktail isn't isn't there or it's it's different. And so almost like the brain can't read it right. So I think of one client of mine, like you know ADHD and and procrastination. And so waiting for...
00:17:56
Speaker
you know the moment before something's due now i got that intense i would say now cocktail of anxiety stress hormones to then force me to wake up to do this thing that i've known that's been due for two months in a way that's how i'm reading it like i wonder if that how that fits like with what you're talking about like that it releases all that because now it's like that gut stress is releasing now i have this rush of energy you know sympathetic mobilization adrenaline anxiety to now deal with the problem, the threat of this project.
00:18:28
Speaker
When for two, you know, seven weeks prior, I was just kind of like, I'll get there. I'll get there because it's almost maybe that cocktail was missing. How does that feel? I i follow the, I follow the thread that you went on and I would say yes. And yes. And yeah, well, please do add, this is the whole, yeah. Add to it. Yes.
00:18:45
Speaker
And so, you know, what it makes me think of is I was just reading some, some research done yesterday or came out yesterday where certain shows for children are now having these three second changes.
00:18:57
Speaker
i i found them intolerable for my nervous system. I mean, not just the content, but the way the camera moved, the amount of times that the screen changes has happened.
00:19:08
Speaker
My visual system, and one of my dear friends is a developmental optometrist. So I called her and I said, I am having visual issues and headache in my head. Like, I wanna just run away from watching this. She's like, this you're not you're not used to these fast system changes.
00:19:25
Speaker
So children, when when you are growing up, when you're a digital native to that, you imagine that the hits that you're getting every time that screen change happens, right?
00:19:35
Speaker
Then your receptors are now developing in order to only appreciate that type of speed of input. So the way she describes it is, who in this new generation is going to be able to sit and watch an opera?
00:19:48
Speaker
Okay, that's the way she says it, because it's literally the slowest payoff in it you know and it's and it's rhythm, It's rhythmicity is so different than what people are experiencing today.
00:19:59
Speaker
yeah And so when you talk about those, those payoffs, I think there's like this really intricate play of our brain's development and what age were we exposed to this faster input of information yeah so that we can then.
00:20:13
Speaker
Now is the beautiful thing is that this is all changeable and there are even your neuroplasticity One of the ways that I got into this work in the first place, I was 15 years old when my niece had a double cord wrap injury at birth.
00:20:27
Speaker
So she was hypoxic. She was told she would never walk, talk, or speak. And we found the work of someone called Glenn Doman, who was already using neuroplasticity exercises without the word.
00:20:38
Speaker
So this is going back now 35 years ago. And through crawling, right? Through a frequency, intensity, and duration of these different exercises,
00:20:51
Speaker
the brain started to recover because it has this amazing neuroplastic ability. And, you know, the I think that for, in order to do that, to help us to get in time and especially for the younger generations, you know, if we grew up at a certain time that things were slower, so our baseline was used to that.
00:21:11
Speaker
So we might get caught up into this faster input, which I find that each generation has a different tolerance for it.
Neuroplasticity and Regulation
00:21:21
Speaker
And then the younger generation that that is their digital native receptor self, then I always encourage parents, you know, there's different things that you can do at home.
00:21:34
Speaker
i mean, I can just share them here if you're open to it, you know, that help to, there's different programs. Like there's something called interactive metronome or anything with a metronome, anything that has a timing that if they're doing exercises or you're playing a game,
00:21:49
Speaker
put on an metronome app for free on your phone and slow it down a little bit and get them to jump at even a little bit slower pace or get them to bounce the ball or play patty cake in time. What that actually does at a brainstem level is help to bring the nervous system and the brain into coherence with time and space.
00:22:14
Speaker
but Now you're making me think of like, well, so many things that um is popping in my head that um like music, like playing piano or learning guitar, like why that could be so, proud you know, so nervous system resetting because you are learning to play and, um,
00:22:30
Speaker
the metronome that mean makes sense like absolutely it's like this rhythm that your body can heart and blood can kind of adjust to because it's something you can focus on that's i'll definitely try that my kids and shows for sure because yeah i choose shows for my kids that aren't coco melon because i can't same thing i've tried i'm like what i i get overwhelmed That's it. It's just like a question mark. Yeah, it's like, what is this?
00:22:53
Speaker
and so all the shows we picked and from our kids when they have watched have been really slow, calming, oddly enough, a lot of like BBC shows. Like one of our favorites when our kids were young was a show called Sarah and Duck.
00:23:05
Speaker
Essentially was about little girl named Sarah and her pet duck that would go on adventures. It was real muted colors, not overly bright, quiet, soft music. I was like, I was relaxed and my kids were relaxed. was better than just listening it was super just like oh i like this it's just like soothing and it's like they're learning just it and the whole show is them exploring just the day of like rainbow or rain or flying it's like basic things but it's like it's so calming being intentional about what our kids are watching totally it's a challenge you know yeah it's a it's challenge for parents right because of
00:23:45
Speaker
I feel like our nervous systems, right, when we get into threat and when we get into stress and when we're overwhelmed, um we don't want to say no to our kids. We want them to be occupied because we're so afraid of what their needs are going to be of us when we're feeling in our bandwidth.
00:24:02
Speaker
And so, you know, I think, you know, the quote about, you know, a child will do well when they can. i like to say, know, a parent will do well when they can.
00:24:14
Speaker
okay All parents want to um do the best for their children as possible. And they want to be enjoying that oxytocin exchange. And they want that, that nourishes, you know, what I call the family nervous system.
00:24:28
Speaker
However, when they're in that heightened stress, stress state, and especially of course, you know, COVID is like this defining moment in our lifetime of you know, not feeling um safe, not feeling safe in engagement in relation to others.
Family Nervous System and Resilience
00:24:43
Speaker
And then what the children went through with that process, you know, with with parents being less available to themselves or to the rest of the family unit. So that, you know, that regulation of can we take a moment to draw some advisors and advisory notices in our home of what the kids will be exposed to, knowing that it actually will feed back in a better way And they are such receptive little sponges, love them, that, you know, they are often super open to this idea of, hey, and here's why, you know, and and I even I saw that with when I used to, when people started first bringing me their children, and I would tell the kids, okay, here's what I see.
00:25:31
Speaker
and here's why I think you shouldn't eat this. And let's see if you feel differently. And then parents would tell they would, you know, send messages through the app or whatever, and say, At dinner, she said that you said this, this, and this, and none of us should eat that because we don't want to feel that way. you know Kids love to be a part of the family, feel like they're supporting the family.
00:25:52
Speaker
And so i love the idea of starting that conversation Hump about, hey, here's what sometimes this can make people feel. And you don't want to feel that way, let's try eating something different, adding something different in to support ourselves, watch something different because all of our sensory input the one that we're aware of, the ones we're aware of, and the neuroceptive input lens, right, and how it's being interpreted contributes to every moment in that dynamic.
00:26:20
Speaker
Yeah. And again, but this comes back to awareness, being knowing the connection between you know mind, body, or gut and brain, knowing that it has a direct impact.
00:26:32
Speaker
And using that lens and framework, I think for parents, or just even non-parents, To use it um as a helpful perspective to understand that there is a connection. I think, again, that going back to the word disconnection, if we're in a state of disconnection, then we're going to I think, remain stuck and disconnected. But we know that there's a connection really among everything.
Improving Gut Health from Stress
00:26:53
Speaker
Not to be overwhelmed by that, but more invited connection. Oh, as I begin to pay attention to all these things, whether it's the food that I eat, the shows that I watch, what I do with my time, that all these things have a direct impact on my emotional health, my mental health, my gut functioning, my nervous system.
00:27:13
Speaker
Then we begin to really take seriously kind of everything that we do and all that we engage with and how. I know dino Dr. Porges talked about how our autonomic state can shape our experience.
00:27:25
Speaker
And I'm wondering, chronic stress, and you kind of hinted at this with like a traumatic brain injury, how that chronic stress can also cause similar impact. But how has chronic stress impacted digestion?
00:27:37
Speaker
how we either ah little more on how we actually absorb nutrients in our food or not. And know you mentioned the holes in the microbiome, all these different things. So like how does chronic stress and not only how, and that's part one, part two is how do we shift that? because i want to know a little bit of what it does and the impact that we might experience maybe as adults right now that you probably work with.
00:28:00
Speaker
But then what do we do to shift that? How do we move from that chronic stress, leaky gut, nutrient, lack of absorption and getting stuck in this kind of cycle to now, what do we do to shift?
00:28:11
Speaker
it It goes back to sort of what you were saying just a moment ago, which is, you know, how do we, you know, instead of being overwhelmed by, and we don't even need to take it so seriously, we can take it playfully and we can use these, whatever easy access points um that feel best without being overwhelming.
00:28:31
Speaker
So when i say that, um you know, I call it the 5% rule. So if you're able to limit some of the foods that might be having the biggest impact, or that's one side and easier for some, or can you add in more of the good ones that will help to nourish? You know, can I add in more good fat, like, you know, extra virgin olive oil, specifically California has a great one.
00:28:57
Speaker
Can I add in more avocado, which has not only good fat, but also has lots of good fiber. That is what the gut microbiome actually needs to thrive.
00:29:09
Speaker
You know instead of, okay, well, i'm going to beat myself up because I don't go to the gym enough. Can I, instead of that, can I, while I'm sitting at my desk and this all this is going to come back to your question while I'm sitting at my desk, isometric exercises, just squeezing your arms tight for 30 seconds, build up to a minute.
00:29:28
Speaker
to your legs, to your arms, to your shoulders, that actually increases the BDNF, the brain derived neurotropic factor in the brain, okay, which then also feedbacks and reducing inflammation helps our digestion.
00:29:42
Speaker
you know, so in it's these lighter lifts that we have, so we have so many different access points in order to start to, in real time, make these shifts to make our physiological state and also our our physical health or physiology itself or biology move into a safer state and how that all plays together.
00:30:05
Speaker
So of course, to the microbiome, a couple of baseline tools. So our microbiome, number one, requires fibers in order to create all of the neurotransmitters, our digestion, our BDNF for our brain in order to create short chain fatty acids,
00:30:25
Speaker
So all of the things that we need to survive and thrive requires different vegetable fibers. So you can buy them. You can buy mixed powders. you know That's certainly available.
00:30:38
Speaker
There's also the idea of ah this is becoming much more popular. i've heard it on a couple podcasts lately, this idea of what's called the microbiome mashup. And they call it different things. Some people will say take 20, 30 vegetables.
00:30:52
Speaker
But basically, you just you can find it on YouTube and you take the kids to the farmer's market, take your friend to the farmer's market, you buy a bunch of weird looking things you've never tried before, because our microbiome thrives on diversity, just like we do, right? The brain loves novelty, so does our gut.
00:31:08
Speaker
So switching it up, having lots of different fibers in there, that's actually going to create, you know, it's going to feed all of the microbiome. And that's completely different than taking a probiotic which is going to feed two, three, five, 10 different diverse flora, as opposed to the hundreds, thousands, you know, that we probably haven't even named yet.
00:31:30
Speaker
Yeah. I think what I love what you first said is kind of in a way meeting, and this is so unique, and that's why we can't, i don't think it's a one size fits all, but it's kind of meeting the person where they are. Like where can you, what's the easiest entry point? And I love that because everyone is going to have a different entry point.
00:31:45
Speaker
They have a different starting point, but I think it's that 5% or I even say 1%, which is based off atomic habits. But what does that want? Just, just start here. And what's that one little baby step? Or if you watch, what about Bob? What's the baby step?
00:31:58
Speaker
to just that changing to do something that is more integrative and holistically healthy for you. What does it look like now? And eventually you'll get to be, make bigger changes and then begin to do the food. Maybe you can't start with food. Maybe it's starting with the, like you said, the exercises at the desk and maybe it's just, you know, putting on a different type of music, you know, or maybe it's, it's starting with where you are.
00:32:21
Speaker
and I think it's so important because shaming. It's not like, I'm beating myself up because I didn't do it because I think that's such a common thing that especially if someone's already under chronic stress that they might want to tackle too much and then they don't and then they get stuck in that shame spiral and then I'm sure that influence you know influences they got more with the stress hormones being released and they kind of stay stuck. So I love that.
00:32:43
Speaker
invitation to just hey just what is the easiest entry point to be begin this process and not where you think you should be or what you see someone else doing but where are you right now what is that first little step to begin the process that's the most beneficial for you you know you spoke about some of the foods and i'm wondering you know, think of the typical American diet, which is all over the place.
Diet Diversity for Gut Health
00:33:08
Speaker
um Can you speak a little bit to how the typical American diet might cause some of this and how more specifically some foods that might help counteract that? I know you mentioned avocado and some vegetables, but like, what are some things that we eat that tend to maybe add to that versus here are some things that we can help counter that.
00:33:26
Speaker
The microbiome requires what it requires. and it's typically very close to almost everyone. whether someone, you know, now some people who have what's called SIBO or certain digestive injuries or digestive system injuries that have already occurred, right.
00:33:42
Speaker
They may require to start this process smaller. What happens is that eventually people get so much inflammation, so much bloating, so much intestinal damage, even though this will not show up if you go necessarily get a colonoscopy or an endoscopy, right? But you're feeling it when eat.
00:34:00
Speaker
And then people start to limit their diet more and more. So then i I've spoken to people who are eating mono diets or two, three foods or five foods, so they eat the same thing every day. What that does in this cycle is that now your digestive diversity is going down even more.
00:34:17
Speaker
It's now this feedback loop that's keeping the person stuck. One of the cool things about using the mixed fiber um process, if you can start with an eighth of a teaspoon and chew it because mastication is where our carbohydrates are generally digested, right? so like So just chew it really well and then and see how you feel.
00:34:38
Speaker
you know Maybe skip a day, right? But increasing that diversity is going to increase your ability to start to digest your food better which increases the uptake of your nutrients.
00:34:49
Speaker
And then if we keep following that thread, you as we we're able to do that and our microbiome gets less inflamed, and then as we come back around this other side, what does that do? It starts to build in more resilience to our nervous system because we're not getting as many threat cues from our gut and also from the messages traveling up to our brain. And there's also liver gut,
00:35:14
Speaker
axis. There's, there's, it's not just brain gut, we have all sorts of axis coming off the microbiome. So, you know, it's it's communication to all of our organs, right?
Beyond Diet: Alternative Interventions
00:35:24
Speaker
So what does that the vagus nerve?
00:35:26
Speaker
Yeah. So, you know, we can, you know, the standard American diet, I don't think there's any lack of evidence on on what kind of inflammation that causes, right? That's something that is pretty well established.
00:35:40
Speaker
and And as you said, you know, not everyone's first access point is going to be food. yeah For a lot of people, it's very threatening. It's very um challenging. it It brings up fear and stress um at the idea of changing their diet.
00:35:55
Speaker
So what if your visual system was an access point? So in other words, like when we're on the computer, when we're hyper-focused on our phones, our visual system is queuing our autonomic system constantly. So what if we were able to take breaks from our computer for five minutes and you know, every hour got up and walked around or, you know, used our phones, set one of those timers. Okay. 30 minutes less today because that hyper fixation where our eyes are not moving from side to side is actually contributing to that, that state plus the flicker rate of the computer screens and all that.
00:36:30
Speaker
yeah So continuing just with the visual system, maybe using blue blocking glasses at night, something that's easy to do helps you sleep better.
00:36:41
Speaker
Then you get up and maybe look out the window screen. If it's cold, you know, just the screen, if it's cold or go outside, if you live somewhere warm and get the early morning light on your eyes. Now you're sleeping better.
00:36:52
Speaker
What happens when you're sleeping? Your brain is actually taking, getting a bath. So it's pushing out through this rhythm, all of the toxins that have accumulated throughout the day. Now you have less inflammation neurologically.
00:37:05
Speaker
Are you going to be in a better mood? Yes. Are you going to be able to engage differently with people and connect more deeply? Yes. So, you know, all of these different access points that are so much more achievable when we try and just say, and don't have to do everything.
00:37:21
Speaker
I don't have to eat perfectly. I don't have to cold plunge every day, although it's fantastic to do, you know, or get in the sauna, know, all these other tools that aren't available to everyone. And some people just don't, wouldn't do if it was sitting in their living room.
00:37:35
Speaker
Yeah. you know, let's, let's use the ah points of access through all of our system so that we can help the nervous system to get momentum. And that will change the lens that it sees that it unconsciously perceives all input through.
00:37:52
Speaker
So there are people, you know, when we get our nervous system into a you know, closer into a state that feels better for us, you know, whether you want to call that ventral parasympathetic, then we are less reactive and overreactive to the input coming in. There are some people who can watch those fast change shows who are the same exact age as me.
00:38:11
Speaker
I am just not one of them. Some people can go to really loud rock concerts and have the noise, have the flashing lights and they feel completely at ease. You know, whereas not everyone at that same age is going to have that experience. But if their nervous system overall had felt more regulation going into that experience,
00:38:31
Speaker
perhaps it would have been different for them. Yeah.
Personalized Nutrition
00:38:34
Speaker
I think it's important to note that there's a uniqueness to each individual. um Now, I think there's general generalizations, right? I think any regulated nervous system who can maybe handle a loud rock concert versus someone who maybe is too overstimulating,
00:38:49
Speaker
maybe, and you could correct me if I'm wrong, you could take both those people, but give them a really horrible food diet. And I think you would see some pretty, I would assume some stress response or negative impact, like no matter how regulated someone is or what they can handle versus someone who can handle less stimulus.
00:39:08
Speaker
I would assume that a food group or eating poor food diet would have a negative impact regardless. So that's a super question. Let's play with that just for a second. So yeah,
00:39:18
Speaker
You know, our metabolic capabilities yeah are are different at any moment and very highly linked to our our stress, anxiety, and physiological state. So what you just said was very cool because put the same food in right? Two people with continuous glucose monitors on, and you're going to see that one person's spikes higher than the other.
00:39:42
Speaker
One person will stay sustained at a much higher level for a longer period of time. And then the baseline recovery will take different amounts of time. The reason that's so important, just even forget about getting inflamed from fast food, right?
00:39:58
Speaker
Forget about the quality of whether it's real food or it's mostly things we can't digest, ah can't even pronounce, let alone digest. yeah yeah Because that's just, that is just the biology of our our bodies. We can adapt and make use of, because our bodies are so resilient and brilliant, they will make use of whatever it can, but we're still going to feel a certain way afterwards, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:40:21
Speaker
But so what you just pointed out is this idea that our own unique, just like our thumbprint, mean, our fingerprints, we have a unique metabolic imprint that we can adjust. Our microbiome is going to be different. or So our response to the foods that we're putting in, one person in a family can eat it, the other one can't.
00:40:39
Speaker
Typically, children will align with one or the other, a little bit more closely digestively. So when I have a a child who comes in and I can see that something is likely related to this food or that food, and I'll ask the parent, how do you feel when you eat that? Oh, terrible, terrible.
00:40:56
Speaker
And I'll explain. So the difference is you have a developed prefrontal cortex that tells you don't go screaming and running from the room right now. That's not appropriate. Don't do that, but you'll have a migraine later. And the child is running, screaming, having a meltdown because they are experiencing in real time this reaction to the food that they've eaten.
00:41:20
Speaker
That makes total sense. I have three kids and one of them is neurodivergent and my eldest. And you really can see more of a direct impact on food, 100%, especially sugars.
00:41:34
Speaker
Well, sorry, not like fruit sugars, but um you know like a candy or something. You could definitely see that. Where my other two, you could you see it because of course it's going to have a spike, but nothing like my eldest.
00:41:48
Speaker
So it's interesting to see that, that your is it's because it is different even between my wife and I, how foods impact. I might get maybe some gas here from this food and she's fine and vice versa. So it's all it's all so fascinating that I just think there's not enough education on specifically that in general.
00:42:06
Speaker
Exactly.
Children's Behavior and Gut Health
00:42:07
Speaker
you know and It's like if we weren't given the rule book, and it's taken me half more than half my life to put this in a way that I can finally...
00:42:18
Speaker
understand and digest it all myself and then start to share it, you know, and you know make all the, all the digestive humor. I'm allowed to do it at this point, but you know, ingest, digest, process, and excrete, you know, that's what we with information with our food, with everything. yeah And so, so if we were able to give this information two children, right, they take that on very quickly.
00:42:43
Speaker
It might take them a minute, right? but they know when they are not feeling well, they know when they have crazy brain, and it doesn't feel good to them either. They know that it is isolating for them to have behaviors that their parents get upset with.
00:42:57
Speaker
They don't actually want to feel that way or experience it. And so, you know, as parents, we want to try and find yeah a diet that helps them in their own nervous system. This is not just about physical health, right?
00:43:11
Speaker
This is about their moment moment experience of what it feels like to be in their brain and body, and how it affects their self esteem, if they are behaving in a way that's getting them in trouble at school.
00:43:22
Speaker
And, you know, are we able to make these small changes for them as well, it might only be one or two things, you know, but within us as adults, as we get older, our systems become less resilient.
00:43:36
Speaker
And so we really want to be again, just finding where our access points are, adding in what feels like the lightest lift. Because if you do 5% with your, put the glasses on, if you do 5% by changing, you know, do intermittent walking, it's called, you can look it up, as opposed to just your regular 30 minute walk, which gets you 50% more benefits ah in some of the the metrics.
00:44:00
Speaker
And then maybe you start to get that momentum and 5, 10, 15, 20% that didn't feel like you broke a sweat to do. yeah And changes are our perception, our unconscious understanding of of what's happening.
00:44:14
Speaker
Yeah, it it might, it brings you back to your, what you shared earlier, as we were talking that kind of as you're cooking dinner, starting with like the family, then zooming out that same with going to the what the foods we eat is one piece, you know, but if we zoom out, we can see all the other impacts that it's having and paying attention really just to, with curiosity, I'd say like with ourselves and even more with our kids, like, Hey, if I specifically with food, if i eat this, or my kid does, am I aware, am I paying attention to like, what's occurring in them or what's occurring in me?
00:44:46
Speaker
Or am I just kind of like, just keep going kind of autopilot mindlessly and in not paying attention and either with it myself feeling bad that I feel this way or and I keep eating it and not changing or my kids acting in such a way. And now I'm upset that they're acting this way and now I'm stressed out.
00:45:04
Speaker
Or can I say, Hmm, what's really going on here and what's going on in me? Which I think does take look a little bit more time, especially in a world of that is fast-paced. So learning to slow down to pay attention.
00:45:16
Speaker
And so again, this goes back to the entry point thing of like, where's the beginning? Where can you start easily to get the momentum to then begin to pay attention a bit more and have that? I think it's like a muscle to be able to sit in that space to pay attention of curiosity and wonderment.
00:45:30
Speaker
And then something else you mentioned too with like you said that inflammation gut may not always show up in a colonoscopy. i think you said that. official Which is interesting because i think I've heard lot of people, they might be experiencing it but don't know. And then they go to a typical, again, I'm generalizing here. Maybe go to a typical doctor and it's like everything's fine, right?
00:45:51
Speaker
ye So how much is that affecting people? that Should there be a shift in maybe some medicine? Like BG had her way... Okay. Yes.
00:46:02
Speaker
What you just said is such an important point. it it That is happening in so many different areas, not just for the gut, right?
Challenges with Medical System
00:46:10
Speaker
So someone feels, I don't quite digest right.
00:46:13
Speaker
feel bloated. My stool is dysregulated for better word, all over over the place. It's having mood swings and an emotional crisis. yeah and Okay. So do I go to my, first I go to my GP, right? Well, my GP said, don't know, try taking fiber, try don't taking fiber, try taking he this.
00:46:32
Speaker
Okay, no, that didn't work. Go to a GI. The GI looks, they do an endoscopy, they do a colonoscopy. Well, everything looks fine yeah because they're not looking at inflammation markers.
00:46:44
Speaker
So they're not necessarily gonna see on the actin level it's called that the the lining of the intestine is inflamed, right? So it might be, it could be microscopically inflamed, but that is enough to be triggering these symptoms.
00:46:59
Speaker
And so you think about the actin layer, the internal layer of the intestines is like, there's one scratch, you're fine. It's going to heal. Two scratch, three scratch, five scratch, 10 scratch.
00:47:09
Speaker
That's getting scratched by not only the food we eat, but the hormones of stress constantly, right? And so it is that feedback loop that we really want to become aware of. And it's the same when we're talking about children and their gut. You know, never before has there been this I'm going to, I don't even know what to call it, an epidemic or consistent pattern that, you know, children are being given are are coming with um constipation and diarrhea.
00:47:39
Speaker
Just, it seems like every, every little baby is having something. And what do they get? They get, you know, they get given these products. I'm not going to name them, but you know, this yeah fiber products that were never meant to be used with children or anyone long-term.
00:47:56
Speaker
But what is the gut function? It is a function of our autonomic system, right? That is an end product that comes out the stool, the ability to go from oral to end, you know, is it has so many autonomic um processes in between them.
00:48:12
Speaker
So really, we need to be looking at the autonomic nervous system. you know, Dr. Portia says, know, if you could peel everything off, it would be the autonomic nervous system as the underlying, yeah you know, driving mechanism here. Yeah.
00:48:26
Speaker
And so, you know, if a child's having trouble, they go to a pediatrician, not getting answers. And then they grow to be one or two years old and they're having neurological challenges or behavioral challenges. Right.
00:48:39
Speaker
And so they, who do they go to as a psychologist, a neurologist, but they're, they're not giving them the tools either that they were looking for is very frustrating for a family who's trying and doing all the right investigation.
00:48:56
Speaker
and they're not finding results. And just as a reminder, not a reminder, but you know, the way that we frame it is, you know, if you picture the hierarchy within the body, the it's, it's an interoceptive neuroceptive level at the gut level, you know, it is where we are and subconscious what we are processing.
Body Signals and Homeostasis
00:49:19
Speaker
And then we have this chemical cocktail that gets created of hormones and all of the different neurotransmitters. And that gives us feelings. So now we have the feelings, which then is c create. Now the brain's like, okay, let me create the story around this yeah based on history and predictive ability, which is brilliant at.
00:49:39
Speaker
And then we get the behavior, the external expression. And so many children are getting diagnosed and over pathologized at this behavior level where really it is an end result of some predictable patterns that ah happened for many people.
00:49:57
Speaker
I think it's an important thing that more important because we just I don't think we generally society think of that first as a place to begin with, but then more specifically the gut and and what we eat and how going to certain doctors, again, not to, I'm here to negate Western medicine.
00:50:16
Speaker
Of course not. We need them. But at the same time, it's like when we go and they can't see it and then people are left, feeling like, well, something's off, but they say it's fine. So now what do I do i guess do you having to say like ah a next step or something, ah what someone could do or might be able to do or where to go to check if everyone's saying it's fine, but they know something's off.
00:50:40
Speaker
First, I mean, what you just said is so when someone experiences that, and I certainly have, it's so invalidating and it's so, it makes me want to jump out of my own experience and turn away from what I'm feeling because I've been told I'm wrong.
00:50:55
Speaker
yeah I've been told that what I experienced and what I'm having happen is incorrect. And i must be, there's something wrong with me yeah because this authority figure is not able to tell me how to track back to, you know, to solve this problem.
00:51:09
Speaker
So I think that that number one is a ah tremendous thing that can be acknowledged, especially for anyone who's experiencing that, you know, that your experience is there to try and help you.
00:51:22
Speaker
right And just because the person that you've seen so far, the 10 people you've seen so far, haven't been able to name it for you, know that that everything is guiding us back to homeostasis in the best way possible.
00:51:35
Speaker
yeah um Even when people who experience autoimmunity, you know our body they often people will feel like their body is trying to hurt them. They want to check out even more. But really our body is trying to guide us back to that homeostasis because our cells are brilliantly designed to no matter what goes in, it will optimize that experience in the most way that it can.
00:51:57
Speaker
So, you know, when people, that's that's a challenging question that you posed because it depends which part of the body is being impacted. Yeah. um There, you know, and not all you know, it's, so it was
Neuro Integrative Medicine
00:52:12
Speaker
Dr. Porges who actually gave me the name for what I do now.
00:52:17
Speaker
you know, before it was functional medicine and then, on stage when I heard him talking last year, neuro integrative medicine. Travis, when I tell you, i just everything went up in me and I went, Oh, thank you. That is what I do.
00:52:33
Speaker
You I prioritize the nervous system. Yes, it's functional medicine. Yes, we want to look a little bit deeper. yeah at think Other processes that can help create less stressors in the nervous system.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yes, add in more um safety producing tools, right? So that we can then engage, you know, more deeply with each other, which of course just fulfills all of the needs there.
00:52:58
Speaker
and So I would say that simple things that you can do you can just play a little bit with some of the tools that we talked about, which are, let me think about my senses, right? My visual input, my auditory input, my proprioceptive input,
00:53:15
Speaker
You know, proprioception is the input that we get through our joints and our muscles that go to our brain that tell us where we are in time and space. That makes our brain feel safe. So if we're not getting walking or pushing exercises, it it is another easy access point that we can do.
00:53:31
Speaker
you know, just do wall pushes. Okay. Actually makes your body feel really good. So our other senses, where else are we accessing? You know, our vestibular system, as we get older, don't turn our heads as much.
00:53:42
Speaker
We don't look around. you know, we get a little stiff. And vestibular function is very important, again, for time and space. So anything you said, um you know, our food, but I would say any access, any ingestion point, and that's our senses, including the vestibular proprioceptive, interoceptive, and then of course neuroceptive, which we don't have conscious control over, but all of the things we've talked about will shift the lens of the neuroception
00:54:14
Speaker
as it relates to the nervous system and the cues that we then ultimately end up with moving us more towards safe enough or more towards a state of heightened threat. Yeah.
00:54:25
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that. And I think, again, it's really, you said it. So where is those different entry points, not just food, which is important, but all the other entry points and how that impacts our gut and our brain and our autonomic nervous system.
Upcoming Course on Gut and Health
00:54:40
Speaker
And as we kind of come to a close, I know that you have an, you have an upcoming ah course here that integrates gut health, emotional resilience, and vagus nerve. I'm wondering, and I think it might be good place as people are listening to this, that, you know, they want to learn more about what we're talking about, I'm guessing more of a deep dive, what you're doing in your course, can you speak a little bit of what people like, what to expect if they're take it and what they might learn from it some takeaways?
00:55:08
Speaker
Sure. So the course is basically everything we talked about here, but on, as you said, a much deeper level, i was very grateful that Dr. Porges agreed to do a module with me. We're going to dive into some of his work on the brain gut axis.
00:55:24
Speaker
He has you know sort of moved into some of that. His most recent paper was phenomenal. And so the course is going to talk about, yes, from a polyvagal theory, which really is how do I apply that lens? And as you said, it's like once you know it, then everything sort of, you can see it through everything. And so, you know, how do we use these access points? And also what else are we not aware of that are impacting us? So I call them micro traumas, internal and external micro traumas. And where are those eroding our safe enough state?
00:55:58
Speaker
And where can we make, again, these easy adjustments that might create some change? So, you know, I go through of, you know, I do case studies in the, in the course. So it's for professionals and for individuals that,
00:56:09
Speaker
And I do have a module in there specifically on children because, you know, my hashtag is save childhood because I really believe that, you know, there's a train that hit a wall about 15 years back and kids are flying through the air that we really want to create this cushioned landing for them.
00:56:27
Speaker
And then also, you know, help navigate them back to their safety. So, you know, I talk about the, the, the, all of the different senses, you know we go over supplementation, which does play a role in today's world because none of us are eating enough of the right things or digesting enough of the right things.
00:56:46
Speaker
Even if you wrote it all down and broke it down, know, they have apps that do that. It's shocking for me too. You know, how little of the right nutrients, if I digested and absorbed it exactly as it went in, which no one does, yeah um am I getting?
00:57:01
Speaker
And wow, if we can sort of create a little levity for the body, so it's not such a heavy drain um to get through our day metabolically, yeah you know, it's a huge difference.
00:57:13
Speaker
And so, you know, that's ah the foundation of the course is to connect, you know, as I say, i help people connect more deeply with themselves, with each other, and then the world around them. And that includes some of the somatic work and the expert interviews, some phenomenal people, Jan Wynhall,
00:57:31
Speaker
And Michael Allison, going have Maddie on there, Linda Tai, Dr. Portis, of course, and um some people that I brought in that are mitochondria experts.
00:57:42
Speaker
One is a sleep expert, a vision therapy expert, one who works with vestibular, because these are all of those other senses and ingestion points that we don't necessarily realize are impacting our moment-to-moment anxiety and chronic stress.
00:57:57
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Well, it sounds like very robust course you put together. i actually am probably to take it myself because I want to learn more. And I'm wondering if anyone else, with any other work you're doing, they want to find your work to follow, you know, outside of PVI, we you know, where could we find you? Where could we follow you?
00:58:14
Speaker
would that be? Sure. and So the Instagram is brain gut Institute. And I put a lot of posts there also about children. um On LinkedIn, um i put posts, you know, BG Mancini.
00:58:29
Speaker
I post a lot on there for people who are professionals and to help them to see through this lens to better help their clients and patients and themselves. Because as a provider myself, you know, not getting burnt out and having those touch points for myself.
00:58:44
Speaker
yeah And, you know, so that the lift isn't as heavy with each individual when everyone's presenting more medically complex. So I feel like, you know, building that community of people who are looking at i'm looking through different lenses is really important.
00:58:59
Speaker
Yeah. So those are the ways to reach me and egmancini.com is, is also available to see me there. Awesome. And those that are listening, all those links will also be in the description on the YouTube or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You'll be able to find all those links clickable to get to BG's work as well as the course.
00:59:16
Speaker
BG, thank you so much. I think this is such a rich conversation. And I know that, you know, we're kind of tip of the iceberg here and that there's so much more, but I think it's a great just kind of. open door to like see, okay, wow, there's a lot of connection here. And there's a lot of ways in which we can kind of help bring integration, holistic health to each individual's bodies and kind of starting where they are. And so I think it's such a, it's such a needed conversation to have more of. And especially now that you say with kids, I think helping teach our kids at such a young age to help educate them on all the vast ways in which
00:59:50
Speaker
we're connected is think that's going change our world is through kind of the work that you're doing and the work that PVI is putting out there I think is is so integrative so i'm so excited so thank you for your time and thank thank you Travis this was really enjoyable Thanks for listening to Wired for Connection, a Polyvagal podcast produced by Polyvagal Institute.
01:00:10
Speaker
New episodes of this podcast are published monthly. Follow Polyvagal Institute on social media to learn more about upcoming guests and episode release dates. To learn more about Polyvagal Theory and support PVI on their mission to create a safer and more connected world, visit their website at polyvagal.org.