Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Skin Health, Fascia, and the Nervous System with Dr. Keira Barr
2 Playsin 7 days
In this episode of Wired for Connection, we chat with Dr. Keira Barr about skin health, stress, inflammation, and the nervous system. Dr. Barr is a dermatologist whose work lives at the intersection of psychodermatology, mind-body medicine, Polyvagal Theory, and skin healing. She shares how her own experience with early melanoma, gut issues, hormone issues, and burnout changed the way she understood dermatology and helped her see that the skin is not simply a problem to fix, but a messenger speaking through the body.
We explore how the nervous system and skin are in constant communication, including the nervous, immune, cutaneous, and endocrine pathways that shape inflammation, stress responses, and chronic flare cycles. Dr. Barr explains why your skin can generate cortisol, adrenaline, and inflammatory messengers, making it both a target and a source of the stress response. This helps explain why stress can show up as acne, rosacea, eczema, psoriasis, hives, hair loss, and other inflammatory skin conditions.
Dr. Barr also unpacks how Polyvagal Theory gives language to what many people with chronic skin issues already feel: “I’m not broken. My body is trying to tell me something.”
Dr. Barr also shares practical tips on sleep, food, environment, social media, self-touch, breath, and skincare rituals can become nervous system supports. She explains why the skin is the first site of attachment, how touch communicates safety, and how applying skincare with intention can become a regulation practice instead of another self-improvement chore from the $500 billion beauty-industrial circus.
If you struggle with chronic skin flares, acne, eczema, psoriasis, rosacea, hives, stress-related breakouts, or skin shame, this episode offers a compassionate and science-informed way to understand your skin through the lens of safety, inflammation, and nervous system regulation.
Dr. Barr will be presenting at the 2026 PVI International Gathering in Sitges, Spain. Both in-person and virtual tickets are available now.
CONNECT WITH Polyvagal Institute:
WEB: www.polyvagalinstitute.org
Instagram: @polyvagalinstitute
LinkedIn: polyvagal-institute
Email: community@polyvagal.org
CONNECT WITH Travis Goodman:
Web: travisgoodmanlmft.com
Recommended
Transcript
The Role of Skin in Emotional Safety
00:00:00
Speaker
Our skin was the first place we ever learned what it was like to feel safe or unsafe because your skin is your first site of attachment and touch is the first sense we ever developed.
00:00:14
Speaker
So through skin, which is rich in sensory nerve endings, We learn, am I safe? Am I okay? I'm in harm's way. It is the site where conflict, emotional, physical gets
Introduction to 'Wired for Connection' Podcast
00:00:27
Speaker
expressed. Welcome back to Wired for Connection, a Polyvagal Institute podcast where we explore how the nervous system shapes how we feel, heal, connect, and move through
Dr. Kira Barr's Dermatology Approach
00:00:36
Speaker
our world. Today, I'm joined by Dr. Kira Barr, a dermatologist whose work sits at the intersection of skin health, stress, inflammation, and the nervous system.
00:00:45
Speaker
Through her work in psychodermatology and mind-body medicine, Dr. Barr helps people understand that the skin is not just something to fix from the
Skin as a Reflection of Internal Health
00:00:54
Speaker
outside. It is also a messenger, reflecting what may be happening beneath the surface in the nervous system, immune system, hormones, sleep, stress,
00:01:02
Speaker
and relationships. In this conversation, we explore how stress can show up as acne, eczema, psoriasis, and other skin conditions and chronic flare-ups. We talk about the skin's connection to the nervous system, the role of touch and attachment, how polyvagal theory has informed her work, and why curiosity might be more effectively healing than criticism when it comes to our bodies. I am your host, my name is Travis Goodman, and here is my conversation with Dr. Kira Barr.
00:01:28
Speaker
So Kira, you're a dermatologist by training, but your work lives at this like intersection of skin stress and the nervous system. And so I'm wondering what first made you realize that skin symptoms were not just a skin issue?
00:01:42
Speaker
Before I got into dermatology, I was aware conditions like psoriasis could have significant impact on a person's mood and in their capacity to connect with other people, but really It wasn't until my own skin started shouting and, you know, had to diagnose my, e if it's humbling.
00:02:05
Speaker
The focus of my career when I was practicing conventional and dermatology was skin cancer and melanoma. And i also had done special training that if, you know, you had a biopsy done, I'd be the one to look at it underneath the microscope.
00:02:18
Speaker
So when I found a spot on my own arm that I had to diagnose as early melanoma and then confirm it underneath the scope It was kind of that warning sign. It really was this wake up call that everything but I was doing right was not right for me. And it led me down this very different path because then it was gut issues,
Mind-Body Connection in Dermatology
00:02:37
Speaker
hormone issues. And it became very clear that our skin isn't a problem to be fixed. It's it's it's a messenger speaking loudly and clearly. So that kind of was, you know, when your mess becomes your mission, I guess. Yeah.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So that, yeah, something that really pivoted everything for you to conventional dermatology. And so now it's like, oh, there's other things going on. So what, what began to shift there for you when you open a new doorway, it sounds like or a new path for you.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it, it wasn't a straight path. and I did go to every practitioner, every colleague, every, I did every supplement and every protocol. I really was looking for answers for, things that were outside of myself. And I don't remember how or what sparked my you know curiosity to attend a mind-body medicine training. And that kind of was what opened my eyes, that um the mind and body, oh, look at this. They actually are connected. I've been taught for years in medical school that, right, you know, we we all have our subspecialty and things are siloed.
00:03:42
Speaker
Yet this is one connected system.
Psychodermatology and the NICE Network
00:03:44
Speaker
And so it really then from that point opened my eyes of diving deeper. And there is a subspecialty of dermatology called psychodermatology, which is the intersection of skin health and mental health. But in conventional medical training, for the most part, we outsource that to psychologists, psychiatrists, and it's not something that we focus so much on. So I started to dive deeper into that subspecialty because this the nervous system and the skin are biologically derived from the same layer of tissue, that ectoderm, they're in constant communication.
00:04:21
Speaker
And then it's the broader network, what we call the NICE network, which is the nervous system, immune, cutaneous, endocrine, bidirectional communication. So when I started diving deep into the research rabbit hole and seeing the real science, it wasn't just a felt sense or kind of like, I have a hunch. It was like, no, this is legit.
00:04:40
Speaker
This is how the program works. It just really kind of exploded something for me. i just needed to know. It's interesting hearing you say that because you mentioned as you begin to dive deeper, this NICE system, you began to, and great acronym by the way. um and And I think those that are listening, generally speaking, probably heard that stress can and does affect the skin. But I think for most, I'm generalizing here, probably is more of this kind of umbrella, really low and like
Skin, Stress, and Biological Pathways
00:05:10
Speaker
low awareness. It's like, okay, then that makes sense kind of as a ah cognitive exercise. But I want to go a little deeper, and and i know you just mentioned a nice acronym, but a little deeper into specifically, what is the more biological link between nervous system, skin, and inflammation? Can you
00:05:25
Speaker
Yeah. a bit more on that So if you think about it, the skin is the visible expression of what's happening in our nervous system. So we think when we have the nervous system, we think of our central nervous system. And yes, there's a peripheral nervous system.
00:05:40
Speaker
So there's the central hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. There's a trigger of the stress response from various things, right? um It could be the light, the sound. For me, it was ultraviolet radiation. I mean, I was living in Northern California, getting so much sun exposure. I was running ultra marathons, right? The over-exercising, not sleeping.
00:05:57
Speaker
It's like that cup with that, oh. Oh, what's up, dog? um Who's this? What's the name of the dog? Who is he? Angus. What's up, Angus?
00:06:08
Speaker
but i You know, maybe I'm a little bit nervous. It's like that mind-skin connection in real time. are a little sweaty. You know, palms are a little sweaty. Hey, you know what? It's okay. This is reality here. Like, keep it in. This is this is this is what the nervous system does. So Angus sends something. He's welcome.
00:06:26
Speaker
That's right. And so that's the whole, you know, that's the connection right there. We think about so this hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access. There's a trigger of some sort, you know, cortisol is released, adrenaline is released, inflammatory messengers are released. And we think, um you know, the top down and, you know, skin becomes a target of that. But what most people may not know is your skin itself has a version of a hypothalamic pituitary adrenal access in the skin itself. So the skin has the capacity to generate cortisol, to generate adrenaline, to generate those inflammatory cytokines. So the skin itself is both a target and a source of the stress response. So when we see things show up on the skin, it could be that the barrier itself has become irritated, broken down um from an outside in, or it is, you know, an internal barrier.
00:07:20
Speaker
ca And we're seeing that expression on the skin. So it's why when before, ah you know, a big event or whatever, you might see a breakout, a flare, because it's coming. it's It's communication both ways. It's like a double whammy.
00:07:33
Speaker
Yeah. When I think about that, this kind of outside in, which, you know, something breaking the skin or like a sun damage or something else that's external. My sense isn't, you're the expert here, is I think that's more of a known by people to to to varying degrees. I think there's still some unknown of that, you know, what degree it is external effect.
00:07:53
Speaker
But if we could speak a little bit more about the internal, like the nervous system response of maybe reflecting a chronic nervous system of being more mobilized and activation.
00:08:04
Speaker
What are some possible signs or some themes you've seen, whether with yourself or the clients you've worked with or have seen, you know, kind of anecdotal research of those that are dealing with maybe acne
Emotional Impact of Skin Conditions
00:08:16
Speaker
rosacea, eczema, psoriasis, or other more inflammatory skin issues that are really more internal? Like what are some of those things that you can speak to?
00:08:25
Speaker
Yeah, I think is, this you know, acne affects so many people, 85% of the population. And 75% of acne sufferers struggle with anxiety, right? So it's the stressors that can trigger a skin condition like acne because cortisol directly stimulates those oil glands, directly shifts the microbiome, directly you know disrupts the skin cell turnover. And then the lived experience of, I'm seeing this on my face. Well, that's creating a stress response and the mobilization and keeping you in that sympathetic you know fight or flight state. So it becomes its this vicious this vicious cycle and this vicious loop.
00:09:04
Speaker
So when people are in that mobilized state of sympathetic activation, we're seeing a surge stress hormones and inflammatory signaling. So this is where we might see eczema flare up, psoriasis flare up, you know acne breakouts.
00:09:20
Speaker
We also, when things are kind of smoldering and chronic, the chronicity of conditions like psoriasis, where no matter what treatment, what prescription protocol, that is a meticulous regimen, but people just aren't getting better in the way that you would expect.
00:09:38
Speaker
The resources have been depleted, but kind in more of that dorsal vagal state of shutdown and body is just doing its damnedest just to get through. And is that usually a sign when, you know, I i guess as a, like almost like a litmus test of what might be more of an internal nervous system root point, so to speak, versus external, if someone's doing a protocol with certain medication or creams or whatever, that if it clears up, it's most likely more, and this is a big generalization, but I'm thinking of if it does clear up, it might be more of kind of an external issue or external skin versus an internal where, Hey, they're doing all the protocols, but nothing's really changing.
00:10:16
Speaker
and then be pointing to more chronic like nervous system inflammation of you, so to speak.
Chronic Skin Issues and Nervous System
00:10:22
Speaker
I think it's case dependent. Okay. However, when you think about conditions, especially like um acne, rosacea, psoriasis, eczema, some of the the more commonly inflammatory conditions that affect people, a lot of what we hear is it's, you know, fix the gut, fix the gut. It's at the gut skin axis. Yeah. yeah But we know, right, from a nervous system perspective, that gut motility is directly impacted by the state of the nervous system.
00:10:52
Speaker
So it is still an internal problem. you know, downstream effect, but maybe someone's, um, their capacity in other ways that they're resourced enough in other ways that if you address the issue and try to heal the leaky gut, that, that maybe they will respond, but others who, um, may get temporary relief, but shortly thereafter, they are right back into a flare and it speaks to more of you know, maybe they're stuck in a state of hypervigilance. Maybe they don't, they haven't had the support that they needed to really create a more long lasting shift.
00:11:33
Speaker
um I always find it so fascinating conditions like urticaria. There's a lot of research and new biologic agents for chronic spontaneous urticaria, which is hives.
00:11:44
Speaker
There, i wish that I could remember the paper, but there was a paper that coined hives as an emotional allergy. Hmm. And i have seen this again and again in the clients that I work with, especially women, that at a point in their life, if they were not given the time, space, or permission to speak, to hear their truth, to be able to vocalize what they needed and had to suppress, had to be quiet, had to be the good girl, the professional, all the things, their skin was
00:12:17
Speaker
their skin would flare, they would break out in hives. And even when we're on multiple antihistamines at maximum doses, it wouldn't break through. This is why I love focusing on a nervous system, you know, ah approach, centered approach and using polyvagal theory really helps give a framework and helps people make sense of what's happening inside them. Because when have one client in particular, i remember we we worked on some vocalization, right? To get her comfortable using her voice.
00:12:51
Speaker
And within just a few short weeks of pairing vocalization, a little bit of breath and touch, which I would love to get into in just a moment, why that's so powerful.
Applying Polyvagal Theory in Skin Health
00:13:00
Speaker
Mm-hmm. From breaking out three or four times a day in hives, it was once every few days and she was on, you know, antihistamines just as needed.
00:13:12
Speaker
right And it's not always as dramatic for everybody, but I think we overlook. The role that the nervous system state plays in so ah chronic illnesses, especially the skin, because the skin, again, that mind skin connection, so intimate skin has its own HPA axis. And it's just this overlooked, under leveraged way to address skin health.
00:13:38
Speaker
Well, you kind of already opened the door there. So i I guess more specifically, how has polyvagal theory really impacted working with your patients that traditional dermatology may at times miss?
00:13:52
Speaker
Yeah. So I'll name, right. I stepped out of traditional dermatology because I couldn't bear just to write another prescription, right? For me, it's what I see on the surface is a clear indication. This goes back to why i love DermPath, right? Always seeing the patterns underneath the surface being expressed on the surface is so much info gives us so much information and clues about what's happening beneath, whether it is the gut needs support, you know, what state it, what state is the nervous system in?
00:14:20
Speaker
So polyvagal theory just gave me a language for things that I was observing, but didn't know how to name. Right. I think of, it's very simplistic, but for, and you know, sometimes I think of, you know, Deb Dana has her ladder. I think of, i find an elevator a little bit more helpful for my mind of moving up and down, you know, um the floors of the elevator and, you know, the top floor being the penthouse where we feel safe and connected and that middle floor where we're mobilized and that, that basement, we're in shutdown mode. And for people who are struggling with chronic skin conditions, their elevator gets stuck between those middle floors. And we know the goal isn't, you can't always be in the penthouse, nor do we want to be, but can we get that elevator moving with a little bit more fluidity and flexibility? And so able to share that analogy or metaphor with people who are struggling, it gives them such relief. They're like, you mean I'm not broken?
00:15:24
Speaker
Oh, makes sense. Absolutely, you make sense. And so it's both a framework of like, okay, so we can meet you on the on that middle floor. Yeah. Might need a different tool or a different, you know, technique, um but we're going to meet you there.
00:15:39
Speaker
And then we're going to help your own system get used to what is it like to move like, you know, what's it like to move off that floor? I'm so grateful to polyvagal theory for helping create um a framework to be able to have a conversation, a meaningful conversation that is not pathologizing someone who's struggling.
00:16:02
Speaker
Yeah, I totally agree with that statement that it's non-pathologizing. We're trying to understand from a nervous system lens, you know, how things might even make sense, how a flare up might make sense given the stress state, someone the hypervigilant or, you know, a dorsal state or a blended state and why that might make sense. And then leading with curiosity to better understand that pattern or root of the cause of that.
00:16:27
Speaker
And so as I think about that, i'm and I'm sure this, again, a classic answer, when people ask me this question, i always say the same thing you tend to say is, it depends. It's kind of person dependent. But what are some of the more common nervous system states with people struggling with chronic skin issues? I'm sure it's, i'm maybe it's even, but is people more stuck in more of a mobilized fight or flight state? Is it more of dorsal state? Is it kind of like, yeah, it's kind of all all across the spectrum. there's no real, is there anything you see more frequently or?
Nervous System States and Skin Conditions
00:16:57
Speaker
Yeah, it's sometimes it's like a ping-ponging, but a lot of probably that mobilized state, the yeah acne flare-ups, the the more um you know red, inflamed, you know we're seeing that more in the more mobilized state. But hydradinitis suppurativa, where it's interesting, it's a visible skin condition that is often invisible to the public because it happens in areas of the body that are hidden by clothing. So big, um you know,
00:17:25
Speaker
for better lack of a better word, but boil like lesions that might break down and ooze. And then they create scarring. And there's a lot of pain and there's a lot of shame and creates a lot of ah disconnection and and isolation. And in the conditions like that in particular, more of a dorsal, like hopelessness, that despair.
00:17:47
Speaker
um So I also do think it is where is someone along their, their journey? How long have they been struggling and suffering with and And have they been dismissed by the people who are caring for for them? Because just because you can't see it or you can't see how much it's impacting me doesn't mean that it's not impacting me. Like for instance, right? Acne is a perfect example.
00:18:15
Speaker
You might show up in the clinic and you've got one pimple. And as your dermatologist, don't worry about it, Travis, it's not that bad. And you and you're thinking, What are you talking? This is, this this is, I can't leave my house. This is devastating to me. i can't friends. I don't want to be sick. Right. So I think to your point, that word of curiosity, yeah have to leave with curiosity. It doesn't matter what I think when I see your skin, I have to ask you, how is this impacting you?
00:18:46
Speaker
Hmm. Right. What is the hardest part of this condition? Because it'll also determine how aggressive a treatment you might decide to pursue. But people's skin becomes clear. Right. If we're not addressing what's happening in in the nervous system state to support that. Right.
00:19:03
Speaker
Clear skin doesn't mean, you know, Shangri-La. It just doesn't. Well, I mean, that makes sense. Just because someone clear skin or no chronic skin issues doesn't mean that they're not in a mobilized state or dorsal state. that would be, I think, an interesting leap to make. or Or to even say, probably people who have skin issues, it's you know they're stuck in a fight or flight because they may not be.
00:19:24
Speaker
you know like Again, i think it's so important to to understand the person coming in and what is their story, what's their narrative versus there's never a blanket statement for everything. um But I know as in the public, we can hear somebody say, well, everyone has this. like Well, no no, no, not the case. It's like, we've got to really treat the individual.
00:19:42
Speaker
And what is really going on to your point? One pimple versus someone who's got a whole face full, full like flared up. They might have the same reactions or varying different reactions. you know So it depends, right?
00:19:56
Speaker
Right. Or the person who's got the face full of acne, but they have a great support system. They are they they've got hobbies. Like I'm thinking of like they're musician and they just jam and they can lose themselves. And they're just not that bothered. They're like, what are you worried about? fine.
00:20:11
Speaker
But put showing up in their skin, you when you look at it, you're like, well, your system needs a little bit of support. There's some there's something that might support, but I'm grateful that it is not stopping you from living.
00:20:22
Speaker
that you have not i This has not become your identity. It's something that you're living with versus, right? And unfortunately, we can identify with our condition. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's and so true. And and think that's a why my guess is why you say that just as why I say it is it depends on the person. i mean, it's so different. I can't you have 10 people with the same condition or skin issue in 10 very different reactions.
00:20:47
Speaker
Or 10 all the same. it it just depends. And so you get in there and understand. And that's so important because that's leading with nervous system is co-regulation is even doing asking the questions is a co-regulate co-regulatory. Like that's essentially that relationship is creating that safety to have a conversation, which for sure is going impact the nervous system.
00:21:06
Speaker
It's going to have a direct impact on them. absolutely And indirect, conscious and and and subconscious. um Especially if you're the first person who's been who's been curious enough to listen, especially if that person has always been told just to get, you know, get over it and not, don't deal. That's not a big deal. or who's been invalidated.
00:21:25
Speaker
That could be such a breath of fresh air for a lot of people to be like, Oh, someone gets it. Someone isn't just pushing it aside. They're taking it seriously. And that's like a doorway open to probably the nervous system, relaxing or waking up depending on where they are. Um, and the nervous system state.
00:21:40
Speaker
Uh, and you, you speak of, this concept of going kind of upstream instead of treating only the surface. So what does like upstream care look like for someone struggling with chronic
Upstream Care: Lifestyle and Nervous System
00:21:53
Speaker
flare ups?
00:21:53
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, we have to meet ourselves where we're at. having someone talk about their feelings or, you know, kind of getting into the somatic work may not, they may not have the capacity for that. So I do that looking at things maybe outside of ourselves, maybe a little bit easier, right? So I think that is where, when we start with lifestyle and diet and focusing on foods and and and we can get obsessed, that can be a stress in and of itself of being so meticulous with the diet. But I think-
00:22:26
Speaker
you know, from the Ayurvedic lens of really stoking that digestive fire, because we know that, um, gut health is, kind of an indication of, okay, are we, do we feel safe or do we feel threatened because gut motility is going to shut down if we're being chased, proverbially chased by, you know, lions, tigers, or bears.
00:22:46
Speaker
So think working, ah starting upstream is, you know, looking, I use an acronym, our senses, you know, I have skin, um, Skin care is being about relationship, right?
Role of Sleep and Touch in Skin Health
00:22:58
Speaker
The relationship between the mind and body, but it's relationship to how we see ourselves. Also our relationship with stress and relationship to sleep. Sleep is so, you know, we talk about sleep being so important just in general, but for skin it's critical because,
00:23:15
Speaker
Sleep is when our skin repairs, rejuvenates, rehydrates. Inverse relationship between our stress hormone cortisol and melatonin, right? Which is in most abundance when we sleep. Melatonin is one of the most potent antioxidants our body produces. And especially for hair growth, right? We've got melatonin receptors in our hair follicles. Like it's so important for skin repair. So bring relationships to our environment, right?
00:23:45
Speaker
our visual environment, our physical environment, even social media, especially for skin issues, right? We are, a metric of our worthiness is tied to parents for four or are is your Is your feed on your phone triggering that stress response?
00:24:04
Speaker
So simple things like that um is a place to start to get someone a little bit like, okay, maybe now I have bit more bandwidth there's a little bit more time and space and permission now maybe i can go inside yeah yeah but i i like to do them synergistically to help people that felt sense of i can settle i can breathe i can right but that tight training about we got to do it just at the pace that they're they're ready to go
00:24:36
Speaker
yeah know yeah you're right that um what is the pace they're ready to go and what's their understanding in relationship to that and speaking of relationships you know i know that you're go to be speaking at the conference here coming up here soon in spain but i'm wondering if you could speak a a little preview just not super long but just this concept around skin physiology and like conflict and repair yeah within relationships yeah i kind of alluded to it earlier with with touch right if you think Our skin was the first place we ever learned what it was like to feel safe or unsafe because your skin is your first side of attachment.
00:25:17
Speaker
Yeah. And touch is the first sense we ever developed. So through skin, which is rich in sensory nerve endings, right? We learn, am I safe? Am I okay? I'm in harm's way. It is the site where conflict, emotional, physical gets expressed.
00:25:36
Speaker
he And um especially through an attachment lens. And it's it's fascinating. Again, we touch ourselves all the time. We apply our skincare all the time as just means to an end. And the invitation is, this is the portal to the nervous system directly.
00:25:55
Speaker
And we can leverage that. And there's the science to back it up. So it's, I just, I geek out. I just, I think it's so, it's so fascinating. And it's, it's this untapped resources. and It's right here.
00:26:10
Speaker
yeah Well, and, and you, and so true that skin, you know, think of holding my kids for the first time that like skin to skin time and just the first time. physical touch of being able to hold them, you know, on my chest and just hold them, their, you know, their naked, their little naked body, their little tiny bodies in this, holding them on my, on my bare chest and just having that and having them breathe is just so, such a powerful moment.
00:26:35
Speaker
But I think of people who don't have that, who've never had that. yeah how that can first, and I know that affects people 100% does. But just even when think of skin that, you know, how do we use healing touch now as an adult in this space now, yeah which is a different way of thinking about that the physical because you're right, i think people we don't think about that as much as the power of the, you know, the window to the nervous system is right here. You know, we could we could feel it. And, you know, I will to have touch good safe touch now. We can. And I think it became so apparent during COVID, right, where we had to socially isolate. And there was papers and and stuff on the Internet about touch deprivation, touch hunger.
00:27:21
Speaker
And looking back at the research in in orphanages and those, you know, um babies who who were held and those who are not and who failed to thrive and who, um you know, you know,
00:27:34
Speaker
became more robust. And so we know that it matters. And yes, we can't go back and change. and It's beautiful when we can use therapeutic touch, right, um in clinical settings. But I think powerful opportunity is these these powerful tools are with us at all times, and we can leverage them for ourselves. So we learn through co-regulation, right? we can Then we can learn to self-regulate with the power of our own touch.
00:28:02
Speaker
And I think we've known this, and especially in the nervous system world, neuro-effective touch, there's Cathy Kane. I mean, there's wonderful research and and and people who have really brought this to the forefront, but we haven't from my experience, it's certainly not in dermatology, of touch as the inter the skin intervention itself, not just to get to the nervous system, but at the level of the skin.
00:28:28
Speaker
whole industry now of neurocosmetics, of using active ingredients to work on that HPA access and neuromachinery the skin itself. Wow.
00:28:39
Speaker
we recall really cool time. Yeah, no, that's really well. and And I'm wondering, you know, for someone today listening, yeah just starting today, what's one or two things that you think that they can start now with this kind of using their skin health as a lens of the nervous system. What are some practical things someone could do today to help?
00:28:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. i think the first we've mentioned a few times is being curious, curiosity instead of criticism, because, you know, to date, Skin care has been about system forward, product driven, symptom suppression. There's a flaw. You need to fix it, cover it up, camouflage it.
00:29:20
Speaker
There's something wrong with you. So the invitation is, can I see what I'm seeing from a place of, huh, my system needs something. It's telling me something. I might not know what it is, but I would be much better off.
00:29:36
Speaker
better off to approach myself from a place of curiosity and compassion than criticism, because that's just going to keep us in that kind of activated state. Yeah. yeah And the second thing is wash our face, right? We apply skincare and the invitation is you're not to add any more time. You're already busy, but to do it with intention, right? To feel your feet planted on the ground, to pair, the practice with the breath and the touch and use the touch, right? Self-havening touch is a beautiful practice that many may be familiar with of, you know, applying your product and gently, you know, leveraging CT afferent fibers that respond to slow caressing touch.
00:30:22
Speaker
Not only are you putting those actives that can help skin, you know, vitamin C, antioxidant, all the, all the things we can, you know, give you a whole skincare routine, but you're, You're amplifying the benefit by leveraging how touch communicates to the emotional regulation centers in your brain to help the system.
00:30:40
Speaker
So it's ah you're doing double duty if you just invite yourself to be intentional as you apply your significant care. Yeah. No, that's great because these are things people would do today.
00:30:51
Speaker
Begin with curiosity, begin with some intentional touch, which is so, you know, when I think of the work that I do as well, some of the most helpful things are really not that complicated in the sense of just paying attention to how you're breathing and touching, like something small. It's not rocket science. And yet sometimes how hard that could be for us to begin and to just do that.
00:31:11
Speaker
But and I believe in these simple practices actually do make a difference, especially compounded over time. Even if we necessarily believe it yet, but even just doing and practicing, you know, before belief is a great way to begin to change and just even just taking, slowing things down a bit.
00:31:28
Speaker
Yeah. I love that you shared that because it is really in these really practical ways. But i know for a lot of people, it can be hard because that the criticism of society or self could be really loud. It can be really loud. And um And yet it's an important that we address that because that can, I i would probably see how that could can increase flare-ups because if I'm criticizing self now I'm in an activation and if I have a stress response skin issue that's highly sensitive that's gonna flare it up and so addressing that internal emotional physiological state because that creates a loop it does know it's that's um you're you're saying exactly it and and that's exactly what happens it becomes this vicious cycle and um And it makes it worse. Then you go back and it's just, oh my gosh. And then you shut down because I'm going to give up. um like Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:20
Speaker
That's your point that the simple things, I think that's what I always find so funny. My clients, I get so pissy. their this is both This isn't going work. And they come back and they're like, damn it, that worked. Right.
00:32:31
Speaker
And yeah we think that things have to be really hard. And it's even myself this morning in full disclosure, I do this work because I need to do this work. I'm a, I'm a tightly, I always say a joke. I'm like a tightly wound B. Like I just, you know, I, I, I can be stuck on that middle floor myself and the inclination when I'm, getting ready in the morning is you know, just, just do it. And this morning, actually could feel it ramp up. And so I just was like, i know we're just going to slow this down. yes down
00:33:06
Speaker
And I could just feel everything kind of settle. Right. There's no messing it up. You, you just start again. You just try again and you keep practicing and we putting ourselves back into a new experience. Every time we apply our skincare, every time, you know,
00:33:24
Speaker
my brush your teeth What have you, you know? So it's, I think that's the best part. Like you can just try. Yeah. And I totally relate as well, uh, carry to what you're sharing, because I also feel that it's in the ordinary.
00:33:39
Speaker
things that we do. I think more so that I can catch myself getting in my own fight or flight state. And how do I just take my ordinary life, the things that seemingly aren't that important that I do, but taking that moment to be intentional and show and slowing things down, paying attention with curiosity, understanding, listening, how that really makes a significant difference, especially compounded over the days, the weeks, the months, the year.
00:34:05
Speaker
These are small opportunities to pay attention. And I do the work similar because I need this. If I'm honest, the thing I teach people, because I do this and I need to do this. And it's actually more of a reminder to myself to do this.
00:34:16
Speaker
I'm just telling you, hey this is a great idea to do it, which is really telling myself because I need that constant feedback to remind myself. The other day i got I went into defensive mode because, you know, conflict, right? That's always fun. So you get into like, oh, you feel it. And I'm like, yeah, did i kind of navigated sort of okay. But yeah, I was in fight or flight there. I needed to slow things down.
00:34:36
Speaker
And I just remind myself of that over and over and over again. Because it is in that practice. And I tell my class same thing like, hey, we are all in practice. We are all practicing. Like it's all practice and it's a lifelong practice. It's never there. I don't think I don't think I'm ever going get there. It's like it's constant practice.
00:34:56
Speaker
I always think of athletes, right? They practice for hours a week, the same stuff. So when it comes to game day, and in our case, life, right? I mean, we all have game days. And I think of my parenting life. I think every moment's game day. So what do I do to practice prepping my nervous system and recovery to show up my best self on those game days?
00:35:15
Speaker
And how do I learn and watch the tape back to read how I did well? And where's my areas of growth and improvement that I can grow in? And we take that over and over and over again that we're always practicing, always doing this kind of routine with intention.
00:35:28
Speaker
yeah I agree. And, you know, um now it's being coined as longevity. That's the new um anti-aging is, you know, longevity is the new anti-aging. um But we spend, I mean, the beauty industry is a $500 billion dollars plus industry, right? All these anti-aging products and procedures, and I'm not anti any of them.
00:35:51
Speaker
Right. I do want to know your why, however, because your return on investment, if you if you're doing it, because you think if you do these things, someone will love, you know, that whole thing. um But these practices, what you're saying, the consistency, the the small things, the compound effect, because the thing that will age you fastest, that will chomp up your collagen fastest, right, is the dysregulation in the nervous system, especially at the level of the skin, because cortisol breaks collagen and prevents repair.
00:36:24
Speaker
The skin sac, the wrinkles, all the things that you're Botoxing. And if you you could save yourself a lot of money. know A lot of disappointment when you take, you empower yourself just to slow it down.
00:36:39
Speaker
Curious. And it sounds easy, but I know it's it's simple, but it's not easy. It's a lot less expensive. I mean, I'm not, you know, those other things can be helpful too, but but I think we overlook what ages us the fastest, especially skin and and And it's so apparent.
00:36:59
Speaker
Yeah. Stressful times and the wrinkles are deeper. the The skin sag is more and all that. And so it's moments of inviting yourself into that experience with yourself, that felt sense, checking in, supporting yourself that can make ah the biggest difference.
00:37:16
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, that's a really important message. and And one final question before we wrap up is that if you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about our culture and skin health, what would that be? You might have 10, but what's the one? Oh, I know. Well, the the first thing was, you know, trying to educate my colleagues and dermatologists to to really start asking their patients how it's impacting them so we really can um address the psychosocial burden of skin disease, which and i I keep, but you know, speaking and things and and trying to help that, but that's a lot of change. But I think in our culture, we're, This emphasis on that flawless skin and glass skin is is the goal. And what about a sense of safety and comfort in our skin? That's the goal.
00:38:04
Speaker
Also, i love how you gave me a second one without giving me a second one. It was great. It was perfect. I love that. You stuck a second one in very and Very well done. um i love that. um And if if we wanted to follow more of your work, if people are more interested in like, hey, I want to know more about this, whether you're a dermatologist yourself or someone, just a regular person saying, hey, I want to figure this stuff out, what what can they do? working Where can we send them?
00:38:32
Speaker
Yeah.
Resources for Skin and Nervous System Health
00:38:33
Speaker
So my website, drkirabar.com, I'm trying to be more active on Instagram, which is also at drkirabar. And, you know, I love um bringing people into the experience. I host something called the Skin Reset Lab, where it literally is experimentation. We try these things on and see how they feel, but you walk away with a toolkit that helps bring a little bit more.
00:38:57
Speaker
Safeness, you know, and regulation in the system. So whatever you encounter, you can feel a little bit more comfortable and confident in the skin of yours. Well, love that. And thank you so much for your time. And, you know, I love hearing, you know our conversation today, because you just really see the With all these conversations, this the expanse and the foundation of the nervous system is kind of like that's the foundation of everything.
00:39:22
Speaker
Everything comes back to the nervous system in some way and is impacted in really healthy ways and sustainable ways and in really kind of stuck ways depending upon what's going on in the nervous system.
00:39:33
Speaker
And not just the individual nervous system, but like the community around it. Like it's really nervous systems, right? The systems around and the system itself. And so just another unique way of the skin thinking about it. And that's that way really turns everything like on itself and say, oh, I got to look outside, you know, from the inside to the out, not the outside to the end. So appreciate your time.
00:39:57
Speaker
Blessings to your work and that you keep being that, you know, way maker in your industry to say, hey, guys, we got to we got to wake up here and do a more holistic health. And my hope is that ah more and more we have that impact. So blessings.
00:40:10
Speaker
Thank you. Thank Thank you for listening to Wired For Connection, a Polyvagal podcast. This show is produced by the Polyvagal Institute, an international nonprofit organization dedicated to creating a safer and more connected world.
00:40:26
Speaker
PVI provides education, resources, and community to those interested in learning more about polyvagal theory and applying polyvagal principles in personal and professional contexts.
00:40:36
Speaker
To learn more about Polyvagal Theory and other offerings, visit us at polyvagal.org, where you can join our online community space and access our free learning library.
00:40:47
Speaker
You will also find information about upcoming courses and community events. Connect with us on social media. You will find us on Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok, and YouTube.
00:41:00
Speaker
Thanks again for listening, and we'll see you next time.