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Interview With Ultra Running Phenom, Clare Gallagher.
4k Plays3 years ago
Nikki LaRochelle is joined by fellow Uphill Athlete coach Mike Foote in interviewing ultra running phenom, Clare Gallagher, a major contender in the ultra running scene.
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Transcript
Introduction and Greetings
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi all. Welcome to another uphill athlete podcast. This time around I, Nikki LaRochelle, am your host. And I was joined by uphill athlete coach and friend to all the one and only Mike Foote.
00:00:14
Speaker
For this episode, we got to interview ultra running phenom and fan favorite Claire Gallagher. If you aren't familiar with Claire, she's a major contender in the international ultra running scene.
Claire Gallagher's Achievements
00:00:26
Speaker
Among other notable accolades, Claire has claimed first place finishes at the Leadville 100, the CCC 100K part of the UTMB race series and the Western States 100.
00:00:38
Speaker
Aside from her running prowess, Claire is an absolute firecracker known for her authenticity, quirkiness, smarts, and humor. She always is a fun listen and this interview is no exception. So please enjoy my conversation with Mike Foote and Claire Gallagher. All right.
Welcoming Claire and Mike
00:01:00
Speaker
Here we are. I'm here with Claire Gallagher and my co-host today, Mike Foote.
00:01:08
Speaker
Um, so I really lovely group, I would say. So Claire, welcome to the uphill athlete podcast. Thank you so much, Nikki. Yeah, I agree. This is.
00:01:22
Speaker
This is a group I'm stoked to be with. And I didn't get to tell you yet, so I will now that we're recording, so everyone can
Race Reflections and Memories
00:01:33
Speaker
know. Congrats on the Grand Traverse. Nikki and her husband just got, what place did you get overall?
00:01:40
Speaker
Um, fourth, fourth overall, only three dude teams beat her and her husband in the 40 mile insane schema raise grand traverse. And their team name was like La Rochelle times two. And then it was like ski date or like date night.
00:02:02
Speaker
You are like, yeah, your ears would be ringing every schema race. I'm like tracking you. You have no idea. Like I'm a huge, huge fan. That might be just you and my mom, but I'll, I'll take it. Like Nikki's just like skiing with the boys, like crushing them. I love it. Yeah. That's very nice. But well, thank you. Um, I was asking Mike earlier, you two knew each other from the North Face team initially.
00:02:32
Speaker
Yeah, good times. Good times. Do you have any good outstanding memories of anything you guys did together? Gosh, every minute I've spent with Mike, I have enjoyed immensely. Mike, I love how you are who you are when I'd be drinking heavily at the athlete summits.
00:02:58
Speaker
And you would just be like, you know, so you would like know what you're getting into. And I had no idea what I was getting into. And I'm like, man, I need to hang around Mike more like he's such a good influence.
00:03:11
Speaker
And I have had some good experiences, everything from her career in the hard rock 100 to my first time meeting Claire was at a North Face athletes summit. And I believe that she jumped into a beer mile, but her beer mile included the Croy bubbly and maybe some wine in the third and fourth lap. Well,
00:03:32
Speaker
Uh, everybody else was drinking beer. I just remember thinking, who is this girl? And over the last handful of years, I've gotten to know Claire very well. Yeah. Oh, what career you at Hard Rock is one of my favorite career experiences of all time. Mike got second to Killian. That was 2017. Yeah.
Recent Wins and Training Adaptations
00:03:56
Speaker
Yeah, I watched you down like, I don't know, four gels and then like, Mike is so good at like, you are so good at turning things around by forcing gels down your throat. I remember Luke was like, I lied to him. I told him he only had to take 10 gels, but I gave him, I don't know, like 15.
00:04:21
Speaker
Oh, boy. Yeah, Claire, this is I love that we asked you on a podcast and you're you're already talking about Nikki and my accomplishments. So you need to turn this around before we lose listeners. Exactly. I know. Speaking of speaking of turning it around, Claire, you you're just coming off your win at the Black Canyon 100K. Are you still is that still feeling good?
00:04:49
Speaker
Is it in the rear view here? What's going on there? Honestly, I have lost all of my fitness from that race. So that was over two months ago. Cause it was February 12th and it's yeah. End of April. Now I was going to raise Chuck and I, uh, cause a bunch of Patagonia folks were out there at Chrissy Mel's amazing 50 K race, but, uh, I got COVID yeah. Right before. And so.
00:05:13
Speaker
I've just been in a slow decline towards summer. I threw out my back a couple weeks ago building a bookshelf and now I'm just complaining.
00:05:25
Speaker
I loved Black Canyon so much, and I was very, very lucky and blessed to spend the month of January in Hawaii on the Big Island. And so I had this amazing, amazing build. I was able to focus on actual training, focus on being in hot weather. So it was perfect for Black Canyon. It definitely allowed me to win.
00:05:48
Speaker
Yeah, but now I'm just trying to like regroup, you know, because it's been a bit of a cluster the last few months and and look towards summer, like summer in Colorado, as you know, as we all know. Yeah, I just I just need to stay healthy, like no more SI stuff, no more lifting, like pots. I'm 30 years old now. I'm like, I'm getting old. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding.
00:06:18
Speaker
Geriatric, basically 30 years old. So what is on top for you for this summer?
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah, I declined my golden ticket opportunity to go back to Western states basically so I could spend more time in Colorado and like I just needed a break. And so I've got San Juan Solstice, which is the day of states. It's the end of June. You've done that, right, Nikki? Yeah, and I'm signed up this year. So you better watch out Claire. I might be just a few hours behind you.
00:06:51
Speaker
That's a lie. That is a lie. Yeah, I just got confirmation Hilary Allen will be there, so that'll be good. Yeah, she's probably, yeah, anyways, she will be ready to go. Then I'm signed up for Spigo, and then naturally, since both of those are like very, very heavy mountain races, then I'm going to go to Leadville.
00:07:15
Speaker
Nothing like a hundred mile track race at 10,000 feet. Yeah, I'm actually so, so excited for Leadville. It's been six years since I raced it. It essentially started my running career, my like ultra running career as 2016.
00:07:33
Speaker
I had no idea what I was doing. I want it. And then I met Mike like a month later. Yeah, it's been six years. So I'm really excited to go back. Oh, go ahead, Mike.
00:07:49
Speaker
Yeah, Claire, I'm curious.
Individual Training and Psychological Aspects
00:07:51
Speaker
I know a lot of the listeners on this podcast are curious about people's training programs and what that looks like. And I know that you love nothing more than talking about training, I'm sure. I do. I like it. It matters. You mentioned having a really great build up into Black Canyon, and you went on to have a really great race there. For you, what does a good build up look like? What helps you get to a start line confident
00:08:19
Speaker
I'm, to be perfectly honest, I'm still kind of honing it, you know, because every buildup for every big ultra is different. I feel like we could all agree on that, right? There's not, you can't replicate, even if it's the same race, but that being said, I've started to, started to kind of
00:08:42
Speaker
push myself to doing a big effort that's like probably around a fourth of the distance or less. So nothing like half the distance of the race. The fourth or a third is like is a good litmus where I'm going pretty hard. Like three weeks before the my goal race and
00:09:05
Speaker
Sometimes I use another race to do that in the past. I've done that and that's worked well, but when I was in Hawaii, um, I was able to run a lot of my long runs by myself, which I haven't done over the last few years. A lot like I am a pretty social runner. I, I like to use other people's energy to get through hard runs and, and, and it's just like the way I just kinda have gone about.
00:09:33
Speaker
growing as an ultra runner is being around other ultra runners, especially in Boulder, where I live. That being said, when I was in Hawaii, I was spending a lot of time running by myself, and I really, really enjoyed it. And I thought the challenge of spending, like I did a really big day at Mauna Loa, that was sort of my effort, which is a giant volcano. It's like a 13er. It's pretty gnarly.
00:10:00
Speaker
And I wasn't like listening to music or anything. I was out there for nine hours. And that challenge of being in my own brain in a training run for that long, I think is starting like, this is what I'm gonna try and do from now on. And it's happened sort of like catch as catch can before, you know, through these races or other,
00:10:28
Speaker
or other long runs where I happen to be by myself, but being able to hone in and figure out my body, go my pace is like, it's challenging. I felt like shit for a lot of it,
Mental Resilience and Wilderness Experience
00:10:42
Speaker
you know? I mean, I granted, I ran into my dad on Mauna Loa, but we like neither. I didn't have a headlamp. It was kind of a scene.
00:10:50
Speaker
Um, and he was a little lost. So, so that, yeah, on the whole though, I was by myself, you know, for a huge day. And, and there's something about like sort of tickling that mental space of where you get in ultras in training runs. Um, yeah, I would say that's, that was my favorite part about this buildup. That's great. Yeah, absolutely. I can, I can relate to that and understand.
00:11:18
Speaker
like the confidence building aspect of a big effort like that. Do you feel like it is more of a psychological boost or also a physiological boost as well? Do you feel that fitness after, and I assume you take some time off after that as you taper into something like Black Canyon, where do you feel that boost most? Personally, I feel it psychologically.
00:11:44
Speaker
Yeah, the confidence that I can withstand mundane miles that I can zone in and focus on technical trail or just even rocky trail without falling. And if I do fall, I recover, I take care of myself. Yeah, to be perfectly honest, I leave a lot of my physical
00:12:13
Speaker
stuff, training, I don't know what you want to call it to my coach, David Roach. Like, obviously, it's my body. I'm the one who has to tell him, like, I don't feel good, I think I'm injured, you know, but I, I don't have the background that like, either of you do, you know, Mike or Nikki in, in science training. And I, I don't,
00:12:40
Speaker
know if I ever will. I choose to trust my coach in that regard. I've read The Uphillah Atlee. I think it's an amazing book. And I'll dabble and I read articles here and there. But it's a beautiful thing about having a coach. I trust what David's giving me. But he can't tell me to be confident in my brain. That is up to me.
00:13:11
Speaker
Yeah, I've always been impressed with your tenacity to race hard and be confident on a start line. I mean, you famously, three or four years ago,
00:13:24
Speaker
spent, was it two or three weeks in Alaska prior to Western States after the National Wildlife Refuge, and then went on to win Western States, a race that's famously hot after being in Alaska. And say a little something about your psychology going into a race like Western States after spending all that time not necessarily doing specific training. I mean, were you able to stay
00:13:52
Speaker
confident and trusting your ability on that start line or was there, I guess I'm trying to just get into how you're able to turn it on, even when things don't necessarily line up perfectly before. I was wearing, I think like five jackets at all times for those two weeks. Like I would just sleep. I slept in two rain jackets every single night.
00:14:18
Speaker
Like I wore all my clothes. There's a few times the sun came, you know, well, the sun was out most of the time because it was the summer equinox, you know, above the Arctic Circle. But yeah, I, to be honest, that was such a unique experience. And this might be a little bit unbelievable, but
00:14:40
Speaker
the terrain we were crossing in the Arctic Refuge. And I should share for listeners, I was with Tommy Codwell.
00:14:49
Speaker
Yeah, you maybe have heard of him. Great climber and photographer Austin Syedek and then Luke Nelson who is an ultra runner but also like has way more mountaineering experience than I do. And there are no trails in the Arctic Refuge and we were there to experience and raise awareness against drilling in the coastal plain.
00:15:10
Speaker
which hopefully won't happen anytime soon. So we're going across scree fields that are like bigger than things I've ever even, I can't even imagine. And I grew up in Colorado, like, I mean, raging little rivers that are going into huge, huge
00:15:29
Speaker
big raging rivers and we have to cross you know those these tributaries and and there's no there's no backup you know except our in reach but even still it's like um we summited the second highest peak mountain hubbly uh you know severe like post-holing type i don't even know it's like snow travel clearly i've like blacked out all these terms because i promptly retired from anything that requires a rope
00:15:55
Speaker
Pretty much after this, after this summer, I spent a couple pitches on LCAP and then I was like, I'm out, I'm out. But anyways, the point being, I'm gonna answer your question.
00:16:06
Speaker
I was so out of my element in that terrain. When I got to Western states, I thought I had a slight Achilles injury. And I was like, you know what? My goal is to finish. It's a blessing to be here. I had such a spiritual, emotional two weeks learning from gwich'in. People of how their livelihoods are going up in the air because of climate change. Really, really serious shit.
00:16:34
Speaker
where like caribou migrations or bird migrations or like salmon migrations are changing due to the warming in the Arctic and and like people are going hungry you know so I show up to like Tahoe and everyone's talking about western states and I'm like this is cool but like this has this just feels uh kind of uh just like a different universe to the one I was just in um
00:17:00
Speaker
And so it allowed me to be a little detached from the race. And but then once I got in and I and I knew physically I actually was really squared away, like very, very, I still to this day don't know how I maintain my fitness. I mean, we're moving for like 18 hours a day, maybe that's why. But being on a trail
00:17:26
Speaker
was the biggest gift because I had just been so challenged like literally terrified that I was going to break my ankle that I was going to fall down a ravine that you know the whole nine yards like well I hadn't seen a trail and in two three weeks so being on a trail and being only needing to run for myself was like
00:17:48
Speaker
Oh, I know this. This is like what I'm good at. I can do this. Like I've got this. So that like, I feel like my confidence almost grew as the race went on. It's like, this is, this is what I do. This is, this is me. Cause my confidence had been pretty obliterated in, in Alaska. So yeah, there's a long answer to that. That I want that Clara. I love that answer. That sounds almost like a liberation, like, um, and there's a relativity there of,
Motivation and Environmental Causes
00:18:18
Speaker
No trail like this extremely rough and arduous terrain and then you go to a race where yeah sense of liberation to be there and how how convenient and accessible a trail can be.
00:18:32
Speaker
Totally yeah and you know you got friends crewing you got people around like I had spent the better part of yeah two weeks with three other humans who are amazing people like the best you know uh mike knows luke nelson well and um
00:18:49
Speaker
Yeah, it just was so different. And then towards the end, so this race was cool. Courtney Dowder was leading most of the race. And then she suffered an injury around mile 80 and dropped. And I was just plodding along in second the whole time. And so I moved into first place. And then at mile 90, Brittany Peterson caught me.
00:19:13
Speaker
uh which is like kind of insane and we had a showdown we had a six mile showdown in the last six miles and it was like it was it was wild and at that point a part of me was like running for the for the gwich in like for the plight of indigenous alaskans um and just like anyone who's who's suffering from climate change which is like most of us um and
00:19:36
Speaker
And, you know, wanting to like make a stamp of the experience I just had up there, like, I want to share this and winning would help like that one through my mind, but then also
00:19:49
Speaker
when you're in a race, like at the end of a 100 mile race, I mean, Mike, you kind of had one with Killian in Hard Rock. Like you're at some point, like you black out and it's muscle memory. You are not feeling anything. I was not thinking about anything. So yeah, I mean, I think I'm still recovering from the summer of 2019. Perfect. That was my peak.
00:20:18
Speaker
It was for sure my peak. That's great. I remember reading about that showdown and it sounded like you were truly sprinting. I mean, relatively for a 100 mile race to the finish line against Brittany. Yeah. I think we were, we were running like seven minute miles, like slight uphill. It was like, it was barkers. Yeah. Well that clear that I think you're getting into what is one of the pieces of
00:20:48
Speaker
Um, what makes you so interesting and captivating to people as a runner. Um, and a pro athlete is you have this philosophical piece of who you are. And, um, I've just spent some time looking at your website and your blog. I love that you have a blog and it's so philosophical. He said no one ever. Claire.run for, for all the listeners. It's so good, Claire. And, um, I just be curious, like.
00:21:18
Speaker
I mean, one specific attribute of you that I've mentioned a few times too is just this, you have this self assurance, but this real sense about who you are in the world, like you are in no way, you're like the, you're the antithesis of an egotistical pro athlete. I mean, you're thinking so broadly all the time about the world impact the environment. And it's rare that you seem even self-focused to me at all. And I'm curious.
00:21:47
Speaker
Is that deliberate? Like, how do you see yourself in that way? That's very kind of you. Thank you. I know my brothers would disagree. Yeah. And your brothers. We should get into that. Your family is fascinating. No. No, they're great. My family is amazing. I do actually think, though, that's a bit of it is like my family is, I have two older brothers and amazing parents.
00:22:17
Speaker
There's not really a lot of pretense, like around the dinner table, like you do something cool, like, yeah, you'll be celebrated, but it's not like the end of the world. Like, and that's just, that's just the way I grew up. And I think, yeah, I don't know. It's kind of a lot, like, I don't,
00:22:48
Speaker
Like what exactly are you asking?
Philosophy and Identity Beyond Running
00:22:52
Speaker
I guess, I mean, I'm curious if you've spent time reflecting on what it is to be a pro athlete. And I think to do that, it requires a lot of self-focus. I mean, your job is to better yourself as an athlete. And I think it would be difficult to not get this certain level of tunnel vision and self-focus and
00:23:16
Speaker
but you keep your eye on the ball in terms of what's happening around you. And you're just very forward facing in terms of thinking about things well beyond yourself. And I'm just curious if you battle like any temptation. I mean, there's the ego temptation of I've won Western States, I've won CCC, I'm hot shit. Like I have not won those races, but I could see if I had like, I just think
00:23:45
Speaker
there's probably a struggle there or maybe not like that's kind of what i'm getting at i'm curious yeah okay i i see uh thank you again so i do think i had a pivotal period of time in my life when i was running collegially so i like i ran cross-country and track in high school uh in colorado and then was recruited to run at princeton and so i ran there uh
00:24:15
Speaker
I mean, round is generous, to be honest. I was injured for a lot of it. And those four years really, really kind of like put me through a dishwasher. Like I came in thinking, oh, running is so fun. Like I do. I run in like suburban Denver. Yeah. Like I win five K's, you know, like, I mean, I wasn't that naive in high school, but
00:24:41
Speaker
But something about I felt like I just got slammed down in college where it's like, okay, you're actually not that fast. Like you kind of suck. Like I kind of I kind of sucked in college. Like I was on
00:24:56
Speaker
I mean, I literally don't even have times I care to share. And I knew I had the physical ability to be a good 1,500 meter runner, to be a good steep bull chaser, or 5K runner. And it just never panned out through silly injuries, through not understanding the importance of eating well, sleeping. I kind of got caught up in the rat race of thinking, oh, this is what
00:25:26
Speaker
distance runners are supposed to do and it was never really like snapped out of it. Although I did have these moments like of getting snapped out of that mindset. And it was my sophomore year, I didn't run like almost my entire sophomore year in college due to some like, I don't know, some rogue knee injury. It was like chondromyalgia.
00:25:53
Speaker
Mike knows. Mike has some serious patella stuff. And I was pretty depressed and I was kind of using outlets that weren't conducive to anything other than like staying up late as a way to, you know, blow off steam.
00:26:13
Speaker
And I was getting my work done. But essentially, one of my really close non-runner friends, Nina, was like, what are you going to do this summer? Are you going to go back to Colorado? And I was like, honestly, I'm kind of considering applying for this internship in Bermuda. But I would have to get scuba certified. And I was studying biology. So I've always been interested in the natural world. And she was like, apply. Who cares about running? Just apply. I was 20 years old at the time.
00:26:39
Speaker
And and I had this liberation of like being in this depressed hole of I can't run I'm trash like I show up to practice and I like get on the spin bike which like makes me more injured because I don't know how to spin properly and like who am I like I came all the way into New Jersey, you know, to like
00:27:00
Speaker
Like, who am I? I'm not as smart as everyone else here. Like, I'm not running. So I kind of just got beat down in a way. And then I got this internship from Bermuda, and I started scuba diving. And it changed my life, you guys. Like, it completely opened my world to like, well, I'm just totally obsessed with our underwater world. And it just brought me this more holistic viewpoint of the world of like,
00:27:28
Speaker
Okay, it's a gift. If I can go for a run, I'm going to get healthy. Like I eventually did, you know, we typically do, thankfully. Um, it took about a year and PRP. And, and after that, I kind of, I had this like release of
00:27:48
Speaker
If I can run, it's a gift. But this is not who I am. I am so much more than this. I have a brain. I have the ability to travel. I'm so privileged, to be honest. I really am. And I don't want to just sit here bitching about how I can't run.
00:28:07
Speaker
Um, so it kinda, it kinda warped me. And then, and then I spent a couple of years in Thailand after college and that just sort of solidified this appreciation for like everything beyond running. But also it comes with this, it's a dichotomy of like, I am obsessed with running. So like every day I get to run is a huge, huge gift. Um,
00:28:30
Speaker
And then I and I discovered ultra running. I was like, Oh, yes, I am a good runner. So I mean, I think that's when I get injured, you know, these days, which happens, sadly, often still.
00:28:46
Speaker
I know that there's more, there's more to life, you know, and I just got to keep tapping into that. And honestly, people like Mike and, and other folks who are really big mentors right when I got into this, like as a professional, basically, really influential people like Rory Bosio, Steph Howe, Rob Carr. Yeah. Chrissy Mel, like Lou. Yeah. Just, just people who are like, you know, take, take a breather. Everything's going to be okay.
00:29:15
Speaker
Ah, yeah, Mike, can you speak to that? I mean, you, Claire, that was a great answer and I loved the background on your collegiate experience. I'm curious, Mike, I mean, you've certainly accumulated some great accolades in your running career. Have you had any similar reckonings or did that resonate with your experience? Absolutely. Yeah, I loved hearing that, Claire.
00:29:38
Speaker
For me, the big takeaway is having this identity outside of Spore. And frankly, I've seen this so many times over the years when you get myopically focused on something
00:29:48
Speaker
every day is it can be a roller coaster depending on how you feel and we all know that sport and athletics and specifically ultra running in this case you know you're really playing the long game and and if you can you know mellow out the highs and the lows and have a little bit more consistency like physically but also emotionally and psychologically you're going to have better results long term and
00:30:11
Speaker
I mean, I think it's always funny. I rarely think that people choose, okay, I'm going to get into underwater, this underwater world, or I'm going to go to Bermuda to make me a better runner five years from now. But the chances are, you know, Claire has had an incredible ultra running career. And at the time when she took this internship, she probably didn't think that was going to be the catalyst for it. But it likely was versus if she just stayed grinding every single day. She didn't mention she went to Princeton when she said New Jersey.
00:30:41
Speaker
and you know in this like great cross-country program and you know she found a different way to get there and I think that that's for me the big takeaway something I've learned as well you know through professional endeavors as a as a race director or being involved in advocacy work and staying in the trail running space you can stay in your community in other ways and if you have any injury or anything
00:31:04
Speaker
you can still be a part of that community, find value elsewhere, and hopefully he'll get back on the trail sooner than later. And I think that, you know, on this podcast and with this audience, I think that's a really important thing to talk about. And I really appreciate Claire bringing that up about finding identity outside of sport can actually inform more success in sport, which is a little paradoxical, but I've seen it many times.
00:31:33
Speaker
I love that mic. It's like the slower, the drip you can put into anything almost the better, you know, like I'm sure most of all of us, people listening are like, I'm just going to run all summer.
Balancing Running with Advocacy and Career
00:31:46
Speaker
Like, you know.
00:31:48
Speaker
Friday night till Monday morning, like I'm running. Like we have these dreams, right? And it's like, like maybe a little slower of a drip. Like, you know, if you want to be doing this 20 years from now.
00:32:05
Speaker
Oh, that's a good way. I don't see Claire as a slow drip person at all. You know, but it's like, yeah, if we are going to continue with this strange analogy, I don't know, like, you know, these drips are going into little planner boxes of our lives. You know, it's good to have multiple planner boxes like
00:32:27
Speaker
I just made a terrible planner box, which is why it's on my mind, a hack job. Yeah, it's fun to have different identities, different friend groups, yeah. Claire, because we're speaking about this, many people know of you as a professional ultra runner who stood on the podiums of many of the biggest races in the world. I mean, obviously a lot of folks also know about your advocacy work.
00:32:57
Speaker
right now, how are you spending your time? Cause you're not running 60 hours a week, obviously. Um, you know, like when you take off your ultra running hat or take off your shoes, you know, at the end of a run, how are you spending your time and how are you finding that balance right now? Yeah, I, uh, well,
00:33:18
Speaker
People are probably wondering like, how do how do you pay rent? I think that's a fair question to ask anyone. I am still working for Patagonia. So I've been working for Patagonia as an employee for the last couple years, which is part running like part sponsorship for to run, which is a huge, huge blessing. But part of it is also in marketing and environmental campaigns. So I
00:33:44
Speaker
often act as a liaison between a small nonprofit that like I know, or I'm able to talk about like a certain issue, like opposing a copper mine, say in the Boundary Waters or a copper mine in Superior, Arizona, where the San Carlos Apache tribe has their sacred land. So in that case, like I'll often explain, like, or
00:34:08
Speaker
be the liaison between, say, a nonprofit and my marketing team at Patagonia. And these are the people who are brilliant marketers who are coming up with the campaigns that kind of shake above their weight culturally. Patagonia is not that big of a company. It's about the fourth of the size of North Face and, granted, not to compare, but
00:34:34
Speaker
And there's not that many people hustling behind the scenes. And it's been really, really eye-opening to see.
00:34:42
Speaker
how hard these people work, my colleagues. That being said, I'm going to grad school in the fall. So I'm almost done with this part of my life, actually. I'm entering a huge transition phase right now. I am in one, where I will only be an ambassador for Patagonia. And I'm starting a PhD program at CU Boulder to work with a woman, Cassandra Brooks, who specializes in marine policy.
00:35:10
Speaker
So she takes like marine biology, which is my background. And yeah, kind of like tries to figure out how to protect the oceans. And she's in Boulder. So it's like the best, best day ever. You bet I found her. Actually, get this, get this, Mike. Well, Nikki, I don't know if you know Peyton Thomas. Peyton Thomas got a postdoc in Cassandra's lab. So she'll be in Boulder?
00:35:38
Speaker
Yeah, she's moving out here in May. So Peyton Thomas is an up and coming trail runner out of North Carolina. She's been in the South really her whole life. So yeah, she's far ahead of me academically because she's actually finishing her PhD tomorrow. She's defending and moving out to Boulder. So yeah, anyways, I'm super excited. I'm going to go back. I'm going back to school.
00:36:06
Speaker
I can't wait. And yeah, getting back to academia, I think is kind of where I want to be right now. Wow. So Claire, will you keep racing then? Do you think? Yeah, definitely. I think I will for sure. At least that's what I've told my sponsors.
00:36:32
Speaker
It's not public, it's mine. Yeah, I'll race as much as I can. I mean, I don't even race that much. Like, you know, I took Foote's advice like five years ago and I've been, you know, it's a slow drip.
Advice for New Ultra Runners
00:36:48
Speaker
I want to be racing, you know, many, many years from now. So we'll see, like let's talk in a year and see if I'm still like laughing and stuff.
00:36:58
Speaker
Okay. Congratulations. I know, I know how much that means to you and I'm excited to see you continuing to just lean into things full throttle. And, uh, that's really exciting. I didn't know that actually. I knew you were interested in it, but I didn't know that. So it, you know, it's interesting. Like you talk about, uh, the slow drip and trying to, you know, have a, have a more long-term career in, in ultra running and.
00:37:25
Speaker
You know, with, with folks getting I like, I see the sport of ultra running continuing to just explode and exponentially grow year after year after year. So there's so many folks entering into this space and, you know, whether you like to admit it or not you've been you've been in the game while now you're, you're a veteran.
00:37:45
Speaker
What are some things that you thought to be true when you got into the sport that has changed? Or I guess another way to ask this question is what's some advice you would give to folks getting into ultra running, trail running, mountain running now that might not have the experience that you do? I would say if you live in a place where there are others,
00:38:12
Speaker
who do ultras, who run ultras, who trail run, seek those people out. Even if you're a solitary runner or a solitary introverted person, everything I know is from someone else. Every single thing that has brought me to the top of podiums is through listening to those around me and asking questions.
00:38:36
Speaker
um it's it has been really interesting to see younger folks get into this sport or just you know new new people um it's awesome i'm like all for it i think everyone should ult around and trail run um but like we don't know shit no one knows anything like not even you know look at killian killian's like one of the most humble dudes on this planet like and so
00:39:03
Speaker
I do love that the vast majority of people in our sport are open to learning other people's tips and staying curious.
00:39:17
Speaker
seeking out like a group run if they happen say like at a running store or if you have a run club in your town is a huge asset and just like ask questions like hey you know what are you up to this summer what have you done in the past you know asking for beta about places like especially as more people get involved with this sport i'm i'm concerned you know that we have responsible rec
00:39:42
Speaker
that were responsible trail users, right? You know, how do you poop in the back country? You dig a hole, like you don't poop on the trail. Like you don't leave toilet paper, you know, stuff like this. It's like, I don't want to be shy about it. Like I want, and I hope my advice is that people really lean in to asking questions. And I encourage people to ask questions in person. Like the internet is great. Like the internet is a powerful, amazing tool.
00:40:12
Speaker
I'm grateful for the internet, but you can't learn the nuance of ultra running or especially like remote mountain travel.
00:40:24
Speaker
from the internet. I just believe seeking out mentors, asking people. The way to do it is you compliment someone, and then you say, by the way, can I ask you some questions about all the rad shit you've done? That type of connection, I think, is what'll make our sport grow in a really healthy and sustainable way. So yeah, seek people out.
Dealing with Self-Doubt and Positive Mindset
00:40:51
Speaker
It's not what you did with Mike where you're like, Hey, Mike, I like your hat. How do you trail run? I mean, even just being around, you know, like recruiting Mike at hard rock was such a formative experience for me. It was still so, so naive and young to, to like an intense mountain hundred. And you're just like, whoa.
00:41:18
Speaker
you know, Mike was Mike was kind, like the whole time, you know, and it's like, wow, this is how you do it. Like, he's in so much pain right now. And, and he's still kind, you know, that those types of experiences, they, they last. And even, you know, I'm not saying everyone should like go bug people, you know,
00:41:43
Speaker
But if someone needs to help Korean something, maybe offer and ask, how can I be a good crew person? Because the only way we learn is through experience. I love that. I feel like our sport can be very solitary and you could have taken that question of
00:42:04
Speaker
of advice to people getting into the sport so many ways. You could have said, you know, this many exact calories per hour or this many miles per week or follow this exact program. And you're saying be curious and create meaningful relationships with others in the sport. And I think that's really sage advice. I love it. Yeah, Claire, I have a specific question just for the listening audience and us as well about racing specifically.
00:42:33
Speaker
you've had some amazing successes and then you've had some races that haven't gone the way I'm sure you had hoped, which is pretty ubiquitous and ultra running. But how, can you speak a little bit about your head space when you're racing? Like maybe when it's going well and also when it's not. Like one very specific question within that question is, do you have self doubt?
00:43:02
Speaker
At the beginning of an ultra, when you are running 100 miles and anything can happen, are you battling even as one of the best in the sport? Is that part of the equation for you and how do you work with that?
00:43:17
Speaker
Yeah, I would say, too, of course I can't eradicate self-doubt. I'm impressed if someone can completely eradicate it from their mental space. That being said, I've gotten to a point where if I'm on a start line, it's a gift. And I really, really try and lean into that element of no one's making me do this. I am choosing this to do this.
00:43:44
Speaker
on my own volition. This is sweet. I got to spend the next like day running. Like that's so sweet. And I really try to sort of saturate my mind with those almost like annoyingly positive like gratitude feelings because
00:44:05
Speaker
Because it's true. It's not a lie. I'm not showing up on start lines with severe injuries. But where doubt might trickle in is like, yeah, when things start to go wrong, you fall. Your soft last explodes and I lose all my Coca-Cola. That happens every single race. The amount of times I have shot Coca-Cola into my eye
00:44:30
Speaker
And I have like yelled so loud and I'm like covered in like gooey stickiness. And this is what I love about Ultras though, is because you don't get these opportunities in say a track race or a road race. This is what separates the cream from the fat or what is it? The cream from the milk? I don't know. Yeah. You know?
00:44:55
Speaker
Like how you respond to these situations makes this sport so fun because you bet there are times where I completely crumple and I feel bad for myself and I slow down. But it's those times if you have a net positive of like, I'm going to be above this, I'm going to laugh this off and I'm going to say my super basic mantra, like Nikki, my mantra is so basic.
00:45:23
Speaker
I literally say, good job, Claire. Like, over and over and over. Typically, when I start going up a long hill, I'll be like, good job, Claire. And I often say it audibly. Like, I race Addie Bracey a ton, which is hilarious, because we're good friends. And she's like, God, I can hear you.
00:45:45
Speaker
I'm saying, good job, Claire. And I'm just like trying to exude this positive self-talk. And it's actually interesting because David Roach recently wrote an article summarizing some, I think peer-reviewed study that says like positive self-talk is like a performance enhancer. And I didn't know that. And that's something I've done from a young age, which is sweet. So yeah, I think
00:46:15
Speaker
The question you just asked, Nikki, is like, is the crux of long endurance challenges? Like, what is in your brain? How do you choose to keep going or even speed up 80 miles into 100 mile race or 30 hours into a 48 hour epic?
Balancing Competition and Enjoyment
00:46:39
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yes, absolutely. And what I think is so cool as I'm sitting here listening to you is as an observer of you in the races you've done, you can see this like, while this is all largely internal for you, your posture, your disposition out on the trail, your joy and exuberance is very obvious to all of us. So it feels like that head game, while people might underestimate it, it sounds like it's really driving a lot of
00:47:11
Speaker
what I would say your success has been. Yeah, well, that's potentially, I think, yes, to an extent, especially on these start lines where everyone is showing up with the same level of fitness, basically, I'm often actually under trained because I don't run that much compared to some of my competitors. So I would say to an extent, but I didn't answer your question of I've gotten like, yeah, I mean, I've DNFed races,
00:47:41
Speaker
I mean, last year I did a 50K in Fruita and just got absolutely trounced by actually a college teammate, Sarah Cummings, which was super fun. And two other great women. And I went into that race thinking, oh, this is a local Colorado 50K. I'm just going to have a nice training day out here. And I think I got fourth.
00:48:09
Speaker
And at the end of the day, that's okay. I've started to give myself some grace, especially because I like to race. I'm not gonna not race these races where I'm not totally prepped. I like to race. What really stings personally is when
00:48:35
Speaker
I don't perform at my goal race, at my A race. And there are some people, yeah, I guess, who only really do their A races and win everything. And that's not me. And I think that's OK.
00:48:51
Speaker
I just think it's okay. And I'm gonna keep showing up to races, like maybe a little bit under trained and ones I don't really care as much about. And you might see me in 15th place or whatever, I don't know. And I think, I just think it's okay. So yeah. Mike, is that relatable to you? I just think of you both as, I mean, you both have,
00:49:19
Speaker
such storied careers with your running and just assume there's a lot of overlap. Yeah, of course. I mean, I think you, you hope to get something out of every race, you know, whether it's an experience, a confidence boost, it's a stepping stone, but yeah, you can't, I don't think it's great to go into every single race as a,
Community and Meaning in Ultra Running
00:49:41
Speaker
as an A-race. I think you need to just throw yourself out there and, and sometimes it's,
00:49:46
Speaker
I mean, I think Claire would agree with this. It's about just being in community with people. It's fun to gather and share an experience with other people and get a good day in regardless of outcome. And I mean, the majority of people that are on that start line are looking for that more than they're looking for being on a podium. And so absolutely, I think it's great. And I definitely have done that over the years and also have had lots of, well, a couple of DNFs and really
00:50:14
Speaker
bad races and go with it. Of course. I mean, if you're going to be in this sport for a long time, it's, it's going to happen. And I think the big part is just being okay with that and not getting so down on yourself. If you have a bad day or a bad race and continuing on to the next one. Right. Right. Not taking yourself so seriously, like, Hey, you can still potentially go win a big race, even if you like, absolutely suck at a ton of small ones.
00:50:43
Speaker
Like, yeah, Claire, when you won Western States in 2019, and then you came back in 2021, and I think had a hard go, maybe it was your tummy. I forget. Oh, that's generous of you, Nikki. No, I walked the last 20 miles. I couldn't move my legs. I couldn't move, but I made the decision I'm not going to DNF. And because I was fine on the whole, but I
00:51:13
Speaker
Every time I would try to run, it was just like, it's not happening. And like a variety of things happen. I mean, I had taken a fall that like kind of tweaked my knee, but like, I don't know. I walked it in and it took me probably like over five hours longer. It was like 22 and change from when I won in 2019. And lo and behold, it was,
00:51:40
Speaker
probably like a more meaningful experience. I mean, my crew was like so, so generous with their time. You know, you just get these experiences from every single race you do. It's like, I'm going to keep trying and no matter what happens, if I win, lose, draw, you know,
00:52:03
Speaker
it's gonna be meaningful. That's what I love about, it's as much as we put into it, you know, how you treat the people who like flew across the country to be next to you, you know, like, yeah, just being around folks, like, yeah, this actually, this makes me wanna get up to the rut, man, Mike. I don't know how I haven't been to the rut yet. You are always welcome.
00:52:32
Speaker
So listeners who all probably know this, the Rhett sells out in three seconds. So mark your calendars for next winter. Right. This Mike is the race director. Just to piggyback on that clarification. Thank you Claire for that marketing plug. Yeah, the Rhett doesn't need my marketing. Are you kidding me? So Claire, one I've got, I'm sure Mike has
Closing Reflections and Admiration
00:53:00
Speaker
I'm gonna ask you one more question and then I'll hand it over to Mike, but just, it's kind of full circle for you to go back to Leadville. So I've got another two fold question. What brought you to Leadville in 2016? And then how does it feel where you, I should mention have the second fastest time for a female ever, way to go. And then going back, like is breaking the course record on your radar and how does that feel to return?
00:53:30
Speaker
uh yeah so i kind of alluded to this earlier in 2016 i uh was pretty fresh out of i moved to colorado from thailand and was like getting into the ultra running scene and the people i run with in boulder are just totally bonkers and they're all just like yeah we do hundreds we do hundreds and i was like okay so i'll just i guess i'll do 100 i'll like go qualify for leadville at the
00:53:55
Speaker
at the Austin Redler and um and they're like yeah great and then I show up to Leadville and it was just like okay great like run hard and then and then yeah I had this totally bonkers day where like literally everything went perfect in a way um I mean I was in a lot of pain most of it but like you know I didn't I didn't have one blister I was wearing Solomon road shoes like like what
00:54:22
Speaker
You know, I was eating frosting. Like I had no idea what I was doing. No idea. And then everyone's like, you ran so fast. And I was like, what? Yeah, so we would be remiss to not mention that Anne Tracen has the record of 1830. And yeah, I ran 19 flat. So it wasn't like I was close to the record.
00:54:46
Speaker
It's honestly terrifying every day that's gone by since that or like every race I've done since Leadville. I just realized how unique of a race that was because it's like that just it's so rare where like all your all your systems are going physiologically and mentally. Like I've not I've not had a day like that since. So
00:55:10
Speaker
Yeah, I should say no. I'm not like gunning for the course record. I'm gunning to finish the race. I want to enjoy it and just feel that energy of the Swatch range.
00:55:32
Speaker
If, if I'm feeling good, like, yeah, I'll do my research. I'll have the splits. Like, I'm not trying to hide anything. Like, I'll know what I have to do physically to get the record if I'm in the mix. But, um, I mean, I kind of love that Andreson still has it. She is such a legend. Like, she's untouchable in many ways and I'm, it like gives me chills. Like,
00:55:56
Speaker
I'm not going to say I'm going for Anne Treason's course record. That's insane. Any person who says that should take it back. Like, it's just if it happens, it happens. But I think that's part of just sort of like respecting our elders in a way. Like, I'm going to do me, but she's in a league of her own. This is good content. So you heard in your first folks that Claire is not going for Anne Treason.
00:56:25
Speaker
Just clarify. Well, Mike, do you have any, well, Claire, thanks for that. And we will be watching you at Leadville and we have very high expectations for you. So no pressure. Mike, do you have any more questions for Claire?
00:56:49
Speaker
No, this has been great. It's always a joy to speak with you, Claire. Yeah, I miss you. I haven't seen you in a while, so it's good to have you. I know. Please give Jack a little hug, a little baby hug. Yes, I am a new father, and Jack, we have a little six-month-old, and I will definitely give him a hug from Claire today. And Katie, of course.
00:57:12
Speaker
Thank you, Claire. Claire, you're just children to Yeah, Nikki. Yeah, one cent penny. I don't know if you still call her one cent, but oh, yeah, you are so funny. You are the coolest. Well, and I've got a new one now. T money. So we go like monetary theme names, you know, what is her name? Her name is Tegan. But we call her baby T or T money, you know? Yeah.
00:57:42
Speaker
You're like a meter this summer. Yeah, she's a cutie. Claire, well, you are just, I am such a fan of you. You have such great exuberance from, you just overflow with life. And it's so fun to talk with you. Well, I've very much enjoyed this. Let's do it in person. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for having me.
00:58:11
Speaker
Thanks for joining us today. For more information about what we do, please go to our website uphillathlete.com.