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REWIND 005 - On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969)
79 Plays1 year ago
"There's no hurry, you see. We have all the time in the world."
Life, uh, found a way again and, with a new Mission: Impossible movie dropping in theaters, we're rewinding back at the time we tackled the original action-spy franchise, most importantly the changing of the guard that resulted in the only one-and-done Bond in the history of the franchise. Listen to us dig into one of Stephen's favorite Bond films from back when No Time to Die was first rolling into theaters!
You don't have to go all the way to a snowy alpine lodge to find us! Check us out at the following locations:
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Overview
00:00:21
Speaker
Hell's equal for you.
00:00:24
Speaker
Hello and welcome to the disenfranchised podcast. We're that podcast all about those franchises of one. Those films that fancy themselves full fledged franchises before falling flat on their faces after the first film. I'm your host Tucker and this is my NPR voice.
Humorous Introductions and Setting
00:00:41
Speaker
Unfortunately, Brett and Steven are holed up in a remote cabin with Oscar Isaac wondering why the drone is coming back so soon.
Recap of 2021 Episode on 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
00:00:49
Speaker
So we're going to add another entry to our revisited series by rebroadcasting episode 56.
00:00:55
Speaker
Originally broadcast on September 30th of 2021, our boys discussed the outcast of the Bond films on Her Majesty's Secret Service. The social media information in this rebroadcast may not still be accurate. The correct social media information will be in the description of this podcast. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show. This is disenfranchised.
Failed Film Franchises Theme
00:01:38
Speaker
The Names Podcast. Disenfranchised Podcast.
00:01:44
Speaker
That's right, we're that podcast all about those franchises of one, those films that fancy themselves full-fledged franchises before falling flat on their face after the first film.
Co-Host Introductions
00:01:54
Speaker
I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, and my co-host, skiing rapidly down the side of a Swiss alp. It's Brett Wright. Hey, Brett. Hi, Steven. I've got this martini prepared for you, vodka. I hope that's okay.
00:02:10
Speaker
As long as it's shaken and not stirred by by luck. It actually is shaken and not stored stir Stored. Oh my gosh. This this is the worst podcast ever shut it all down. We're done. That's it You're a bond from Wisconsin. Oh Yeah, make sure you get that uh, that she stirred shaking not sturdy names bond James Bondi and
00:02:39
Speaker
Oh, great. Now we have offended everybody, both the British and the people from the Minnesota, Wisconsin area. Hey, it's the disenfranchised podcast. What's going on, everybody? Welcome. This is going to be a great episode. I can already tell.
Discussion on 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service' as a Failed Bond Franchise
00:02:58
Speaker
And yeah, there's a new James Bond movie coming up. And so as such, we have elected Brett to talk about what movie?
00:03:06
Speaker
We're talking about the one and only failed franchise in the Bond oeuvre on Her Majesty's Secret Service. Yes, 1969's On Her Majesty's Secret Service, starring George Lazenby, Diana Rigg, Telly Savalas, Gabrielle Verzetti, Ilse Stepat, Lois Maxwell, George Baker, Bernard Lee, Bernard Horstfall, Desmond Llewellyn,
00:03:29
Speaker
and many, many others, including but not limited to the great Joanna Lumley in one of her very first film roles. But yeah, and I hear what you're saying, Steven, Brett.
00:03:42
Speaker
This is part of the Bond franchise. It absolutely is. And you're right, except every other Bond got to make at least one other movie. Lazenby did not. In fact, Lazenby will talk about why there was not a sequel to Lazenby's Bond franchise, but there was only one Lazenby Bond film. And so it technically counts as a failed franchise starter, or at least we're technically counting it as a failed franchise starter.
00:04:10
Speaker
And so basically this is our way to talk about Bond So we're gonna talk about bond in advance of no time to die It's it's no different than like solo or movies like that. We're like look Yes Is it a single movie in a larger franchise that you could make an argument that it's part of the franchise? Sure. Mm-hmm, but I Mean, we've just given you at least two reasons why it fits. Yeah, I mean it and
00:04:39
Speaker
I mean, look, we'll get into all of it for sure. But for now, Brett, what is your familiarity with the Bond franchise?
Brett and Steven's Personal Bond Journeys
00:04:50
Speaker
What is your familiarity with this film? Do you have larger thoughts on Bond, etc, etc?
00:04:58
Speaker
So my history with the Bond franchise is nearly zero, unfortunately, for the audience and you. Let me take a guess, if I may. Your entry into the franchise begins with GoldenEye, the video game.
00:05:17
Speaker
Absolutely, Stephen, you've been on that. If you were a kid in the 90s who had a Nintendo 64 and at least two friends, you were probably playing the hell out of GoldenEye. I had neither an N64 nor did I have two friends, so I was kind of out on that. Yeah, I was lucky enough to have not only two friends, I had enough friends to play four player on screen co-op. Well, I know.
00:05:47
Speaker
And my own N64. I was living the high life as a teenager. Who knew? Man. So, yeah. I mean, obviously most of my Bond knowledge is going to be modern day Bond. I think judging by my reaction to the original Italian job, I'm not much of an Anglophile. And the old school Britishness of the older Bond films isn't really my thing. Sure.
00:06:16
Speaker
I like the later, more tech-heavy gadgets and that sort of spy shenanigans. I'm into that more. But overall, not really a Bond guy. Wow. Wow. Look, I'm sorry, man. I apologize to you. I apologize to the listeners. You're going to see over the course of this episode.
00:06:41
Speaker
I don't know a whole lot, and you're probably not going to be happy with my opinion about this movie either. I have a feeling I'm not going to be. Here's the thing. There are really only two camps you can come at for this movie. One is it's a masterpiece. The other is it's hot garbage. And I think you and I are going to fall basically evenly on either side of that argument.
00:07:04
Speaker
Um, because I think this movie is great and I'm not a huge James Bond fan. I think my intro, I mean, obviously my intro to the character was the Brosnan era. Though I think I do remember seeing snippets of like the Roger Moore or Sean Connery bonds on.
00:07:22
Speaker
like the TBS marathons that they used to do in the late 90s. But I don't think I ever sat down and watched a whole one of those. It was always kind of bits and pieces here and there, scattered. But I think the first Bond movie I saw in its entirety was probably the first one I saw in the theaters, which is The World is Not Enough. And then, wait, which came first? The World is Not Enough or Tomorrow Never Dies?
00:07:51
Speaker
As the world is now. It's Tomorrow Never Dies. Tomorrow Never Dies is the first one I saw in theaters. Okay. Tomorrow Never Dies comes out in 97. World is Not Enough comes out in 99.
00:08:03
Speaker
So Tomorrow Never Dies is the first bond I see in theaters. After that, I do see the remaining Brosnan bonds in theaters before Die Another Day just puts me completely off the franchise altogether, as it did many other people, which is why they had to hard reboot the franchise after that one.
00:08:22
Speaker
But I've last year in quarantine, I needed like many people desperately needed something to do. So I went and watched all the bonds, which were mostly streaming on Hulu at the time. So I watched all the bonds in order. So now I know so much about James Bond. And it's a fun it's not my favorite spy franchise. James Bond is far from my favorite spy, like fictional spy.
00:08:50
Speaker
Um, I, I think I've mentioned on this podcast before that my favorite fictional spy is George Smiley. Um, because I like the like spy craft and like clandestine rooms and like secret glances and like actual spy craft, which is part of why I think this movie is really awesome because it, it's not the goofy gadgets, the space age stuff. It's very much, it's very grounded, very much something that could probably happen.
00:09:17
Speaker
And I think that with the exception of like the weird mind control subplot that kind of gets dropped But no, it's it's it's a fun movie and I think it's great and I'm very excited to talk about James Bond Well, I have the opposite opinion as you may have already figured out everybody Brett's garbage camp Well, I can't say it's hot garbage so much as just like
Critiques and Analysis of 'On Her Majesty's Secret Service'
00:09:44
Speaker
Boring? I thought it was really boring for a Bond movie. Like, I mean, like, it has everything going for it. Like, it has car chases. It has ski kind of brutal, like ski chases. That ski chase was brutal. It's got one of the best Bond girls. It's got one of the best Bond villains. And yeah, but like, I found myself constantly falling asleep and
00:10:13
Speaker
Are you sure that's not just because you were watching it at the end of a very long day? I mean, that's impossible, but it could be. But I said, but still, still, though, when you're like an hour and 45 into it and you go and you check the time and there's still 45 minutes. You love to see it.
00:10:38
Speaker
And you're like, there's still 45 minutes of this movie. Are you out of your damn mind? Nope. I just couldn't do it. So spoilers. I also didn't finish this movie. That's how much I did not care for it. Now, does that make my opinion invalid? I will let you decide. Some would say yes. Others who already think this movie is bad will probably be like, yeah, that's fair. But
00:11:09
Speaker
I don't know. We'll see. We'll see in the comments that we don't have. You can find us on social media. Let us know who's right here. We are at Disinfranch Pod on pretty much all of them. Yeah, so that's where I fell on it because I just didn't feel like, because like I said, I'm more of the gadget heavy, you know, seeing them do cool stuff and drive cool cars and not so much the
00:11:39
Speaker
real spy stuff, quote unquote. Yeah, which is that's the stuff I eat up with a spoon. I love it. Yeah, so that's that's where I fall.
00:11:48
Speaker
All right, well, I guess that's all we've got for today. Thanks for listening to our Majesty's Secret Service episode. No, we're going to get into it. Don't even worry about it. Good night, everybody. Good night, everybody. We're going to get into it. Don't even worry about it. So Sean Connery leaves the Bond franchise, kind of is sick of the character, wants to do other things, like most actors who have been typecast into a specific kind of role.
00:12:14
Speaker
And so the search goes on for the next James Bond, because as they promise at the end of every James Bond movie, James Bond will return. And return he did. So question, Steven. Yeah. Can you this is sort of like a small little side tangent. Yeah. Can you think off the top of your head of when an actor has done that and it's actually worked?
00:12:39
Speaker
I mean, depending on your opinion of Connery as Bond, the Bond franchise potentially, because that franchise continues on for decades after he leaves it. Well, I mean, like an actor leaves a part because he doesn't want to be typecast and then goes on to be successful doing other stuff.
00:12:58
Speaker
putting me on the spot like that I'm not thinking of anything immediately although I'm sure there are examples that I'm sure our listeners will probably be more than happy to
00:13:10
Speaker
Let me know. But I mean, Connery is a fairly good example because Connery does find a great deal of success after he leaves the role of James Bond. He wins his Oscar in the 90s for The Untouchables. I mean, like he goes on to become fairly successful. So in Connery's case, at least, it absolutely works in terms of like the other actors who've played Bond. It doesn't really work at all.
00:13:35
Speaker
like Roger Moore was never more famous than when he was playing Bond, same with Lazenby. Brosnan has most of the rest of his career after Bond is mostly supporting roles. He doesn't really get the chance to lead a film, let alone a franchise after that. So I mean, in terms of this franchise, it doesn't I mean, jury still out on Craig, he's still got the knives out movies. So I'm just hoping he goes full bore into just weird stuff.
00:14:01
Speaker
like he was doing with Soderbergh and Logan Lucky and like he's doing with Ryan Johnson and Knives Out. Like I'm just hoping we just lean full into that or he leans full into that. But yeah, I mean, in terms of other actors and other franchises, Robert Downey Jr. is trying it now. Doesn't really seem to be working out well for him. Yeah, I mean, maybe this is a bad opinion to have, but it's always come off as the most pretentious thing in the world to me.
00:14:30
Speaker
I don't want to be typecast as this incredibly popular character anymore. I'm above that. I'm an actor. Well, as an actor, it gets really limiting, because you want to have a career, you want to have longevity. This is your job. And so if there's only one thing that you're able to do that anyone thinks that you're able to do, it becomes increasingly less fun.
00:14:57
Speaker
As an actor, I worked with a particular theater group here in Indianapolis, a community theater group for a long time, and I did a lot of plays with them, but they were mostly comedies. One director cast me in a drama, and two of the directors that I had worked with for that company previously came to one of the shows, and they pulled the director of that show aside and said, I had no idea Steven could do that.
00:15:20
Speaker
because you never gave me the chance to do that. Like some actors might surprise you, and some actors do have a lot more in their repertoire. Other actors think they're more versatile than they are. So I think it depends on the actor. I mean, there's a difference between like a character actor and a
00:15:39
Speaker
a personality actor, like a personality actor is the kind of person who just plays the same role, regardless of what they're in, like a Sean Connery or a John Wayne. And they can have a great deal of success doing that. But I mean, that what you see is what you get pretty much, whereas a personality or a, I'm sorry, a character actor is known for playing lots of different characters. And they like taking on a lot of different kinds of roles. They're the ones that might surprise you when they pop up in a comedy, but can play comedy as well as drama.
00:16:09
Speaker
as well as whatever else you might ask of them. They're usually guys like Benicio del Toro who will show up and do like five minutes of just the weirdest stuff imaginable in a Guardians of the Galaxy or a Star Wars movie and then, you know, go on and do like, I don't know, a Che Guevara movie, you know? Like that's just the kind of actor that they are and the kind of thing they can do.
00:16:34
Speaker
So, I mean, there are different kinds of actors. Some actors are personality actors, but like to fancy themselves character actors. Some actors start as character actors, and then once they find their niche, they find it really difficult to get back out of that, either because of the public perception or because certain ticks and certain things have become so ingrained in their acting style that they can't get rid of those now. I think that's an example of what we're seeing in Robert Downey Jr., who was, in his youth, an incredibly versatile actor, but I think he's just been playing Iron Man for too long.
00:17:04
Speaker
We'll talk about Doolittle on this podcast at some point, but Doolittle is very much the kind of role where you're like, well, that's just Tony Stark trying to be British, really, is what that is. In my mind, it's unsuccessful in part because of that. It's unsuccessful for a lot of other reasons, but that's a big part of why I think that movie is unsuccessful. But again, we'll have a Doolittle episode at some point. Don't worry about it.
00:17:31
Speaker
Okay. And look, that's the sort of insight that I wouldn't have had because I'm not an actor or as Steven is. Simply amateur, but hey, still counts. Look, man, still counts. And that's the sort of perspective that I did not have. So fair enough. Thank you for that. Very informative. Carry on.
00:17:51
Speaker
No problem. So Connery steps aside and again in his in his particular case, it ends up working out pretty well because he does end up getting a good deal of success after he plays Bond.
The Casting of George Lazenby as Bond
00:18:03
Speaker
But in the steps, George Lazenby, who pretty much and it's kind of a big almost.
00:18:09
Speaker
Scarlett O'Hara level search for the next James Bond, which for those that don't know in the late 30s, early 40s, when they announced that they were going to be doing a Hollywood version of Margaret Mitchell's Gone with the Wind, David O'Celznick pretty much goes on this massive search for Scarlett O'Hara, where he is screen testing like hundreds of women across the country to play this very iconic character, this very iconic role, before the role ultimately goes to Vivian Lee, who is
00:18:37
Speaker
perfect in that movie. I mean, the movie itself, problematic as hell, she is incredibly good in that movie. And the search for James Bond kind of had a similar vibe to it. Like every time there's a Bond actor steps, steps aside, there's always like, who's going to be the next James Bond? And like, there's a bunch of attention paid. Like this was the first time that it happened. So the idea that someone else would be playing James Bond was kind of huge.
00:19:06
Speaker
And so they're searching all over, high and low. In comes this Australian model named George Lazenby, who secures the role by doing one incredibly savvy thing. Before his audition, he calls up the tailor shop in Seville Row. Is the audio bad? Okay, you were wincing, so I wasn't sure if there was an audio issue.
00:19:29
Speaker
No, I just wanted I didn't know this guy was a model. Oh, yeah. I was like, oh no wonder he's so bad He ends up securing the role of James Bond by doing one incredibly important thing he goes to the tailor shop on Savile Row in London where Sean Connery got his suits and basically
00:19:58
Speaker
saw that there was a suit there that Sean Connery had never picked up. It was Connery's suit. He had never picked it up. It was just sitting there in this tailor shop. And Lazenby says, fit me for that suit. And so the tailor does, fits him for the suit. He shows up for his audition in Connery's suit. So he walks in and essentially they're like, you look like James Bond.
00:20:22
Speaker
And that is ultimately what secures him the role. Like he walks in and he is James Bond. And so he ends up securing the role based on that. Oh, Brett's having feelings right now. Oh, God. No, look, no wonder this guy is sucked and no wonder he didn't get a second movie. You cast him because he looked the part.
00:20:47
Speaker
They didn't bother to audition the man and his acting ability at all? No, I'm sure they did, but here's the thing. It's the late 60s, Brett. Like, image is everything. And Bond, the image of Bond is the image of cool. Like, that's what it is. It's that effortless coolness. But did you say the name of this tailor shot, by the way? Was it mentioned?
00:21:11
Speaker
I did not know. Was it the king? I don't know the name of the tailor shop. I just know that it is the tailor that that Sean Connery went to. Well, was it the Kingsman by any chance? No, it was not. It was not that tailor shop. Here's Brett. I don't want to be the one to break this to you. Uh huh. But that's not real. What? No. How dare you? I know. I'm very sorry. You've crushed my dreams.
00:21:36
Speaker
I'm so sorry, buddy. I want to join their ranks one day. You're not British. That's a problem. Shut up. I can be whatever I want to be.
00:21:44
Speaker
Not with that accent, you can't. That was pretty, pretty awful. Pretty unimpeachable, my friend. That was real bad. I apologize to everyone listening. Oof, oof. Yeah, that was oof. But the I mean, it's the same thing like when you hear Americans talking about how they're waiting for their Hogwarts letter. I'm like, no, you're you're you're going to get
00:22:10
Speaker
You're going to get a letter from Ilvermorny and you're going to like it because you don't get Hogwarts letters in America. I'm sorry. Owls don't fly over oceans. It's not going to happen. Nope. Sorry. Hate to be the one to break that to you, but that's just how it is. This is going to crush your dreams. That's what I'm apparently, that's my role on this podcast.
00:22:32
Speaker
But to to that point, though, that's the sort of spy movie that I'm into this over the top gadgets and just like over the top action. Yeah, that's that's not surprising. Kingsman for days. I love all of those movies. Well, in Kingsman itself is kind of a it's it's a kind of riff on the classic James Bond model just cranked up to 11.
00:22:55
Speaker
Oh, yeah, for sure. So whereas I'm just I for me, the Kingsman movies are our bridge too far. I'm just like, is there any way we could take this and just strip it of everything that makes it different and just like set it in a quiet room in the like in the middle of like the winter somewhere? Like, could we do that? Maybe is that like and just have a bunch of people like suspecting each other like that because that's a really cool. I like that.
00:23:20
Speaker
You just want to watch some people play like One Night Ultimate Werewolf for like... Hell yes. For like an hour or so. Oh my gosh. Yes, that sounds perfect. But no, one of my favorite movies of the last decade is a movie we will absolutely cover on this podcast.
00:23:39
Speaker
Tinker Tailor Soldier spy. I absolutely love it. Brett will absolutely hate it. He will fall asleep seven times before the end of the movie and probably not finish that one either. But I cannot wait to talk about that movie because we're never going to get the rest of that. And it's based on a long running series. Smiley was kind of the anti bond. And so that's kind of why I love him.
00:24:01
Speaker
Look, I don't mind, you know, some good. Who's who's actually doing the thing? And, you know, the entry gets the betrayal. It's the triple cross. It's on that. Like, that's fine. I like a good murder mystery. Knives out is fantastic. I don't. It's the it's when you include that into us like.
00:24:28
Speaker
a big political spy thriller. Like you dump that into a big political spy thriller. But here's the thing. That's what spy thrillers initially were.
00:24:39
Speaker
Sure. It's all the intrigue. It's all the betrayal.
Evolution and Formula of Bond Films
00:24:43
Speaker
It's all the who do you trust, what do you do, how do you get out of this situation kind of thing. Bond is the one that cranked all that up to 11 and made it into this weird gadget heavy, like there's a super secret evil organization at foot kind of ruling the world from behind the shadows. Bond was the one that kind of did all that. And because of its popularity, really set the template for spy movies going forward.
00:25:09
Speaker
And honestly, I think that's way cooler that there's like, you know, you got this one guy with all these cool gadgets. He's like a superhero fighting this like Illuminati style evil or empire behind everything. That's way cooler than just like, yeah, Russia really hates China and we're going to send this guy in to hopefully stop it. Whatever. Here's the thing, though, Brett, you're in the majority, so you don't have to really defend that position.
00:25:35
Speaker
See, I don't know. Because as much as I love those style of movies, I don't watch them all that much. And I'm also not in that discourse. So until you just said that, I had no idea I was in the majority. I feel like I was in the minority.
00:25:50
Speaker
But hey, cool. I'm in the majority. Hey, no, I mean, because you're in the majority because that's like very emblematic of the type of movie that just gets made anymore. Like that's the only kind of like the big superhero guy facing a giant organization like that. That's what was that Winter Soldier Captain America, the Winter Soldier was pretty much. And people think that's the best Marvel movie. So I mean,
00:26:18
Speaker
There's there's there's a there's a point there. There's there's, you know, something to be said for all that. I just, for my part, love those quiet thrillers where it's all about, you know, the intrigue and the the actual spy craft, which is why I think this movie is so good because it's it's about James Bond actually doing spy shit as opposed to, you know, building, opening a suitcase and a helicopter popping out of it.
00:26:46
Speaker
you know, that which is something that totally happens in a bad movie. But yeah, that's a bit much but you know, but I mean that this is this this movie feels and I think that's for a lot of its detractors. I think that's what most people don't like about it. But this is for all intents and purposes, this is the most accurate
00:27:08
Speaker
adaptation of an Ian Fleming novel in terms of what happens in this movie versus what happens in the actual book. This is the most real, this is the most grounded, it's the most honest adaptation. I don't know, something to be said. Well, that's just something that happened over time. The James Bond in the movies, it's just an entire franchise of in-name only adaptations.
00:27:33
Speaker
Yeah, particularly toward the end where they're just where literally they're they start taking the names of Ian Fleming short stories and putting them in front of Bond movies, even though they have nothing to do with them like Quantum of Solace. Well, I think the last time they tried that or like naming it after something Fleming adjacent or Fleming related versus something that Fleming actually did. Yeah, so I mean, I get that, but there doesn't seem to really be a whole lot of people wanting
00:28:03
Speaker
accurate James Bond book adaptations anymore. We're all about the flashy Kingsman-style over-the-top shenanigans.
00:28:13
Speaker
Sure. And I'm going to be honest, when they rebooted with Daniel Craig, I thought that we what we were going to get next was a series of very faithful adaptations to the Fleming novels. And they pretty much did one fairly relatively faithful adaptation and then just decided to do their own thing, which is fine. That's OK. But by the same token, I was like, oh, we kind of a missed opportunity there. But oh, well, well, stop me if I'm wrong. They did.
00:28:42
Speaker
And I very well could be wrong about this. But I thought they at least did something novel and decided to actually do an ongoing story instead of just standalone stories. Right. Yeah. Yeah. But they gradually started tying that back to the larger James Bond mythos as well.
00:29:02
Speaker
So I mean, that's cool. That's something they hadn't done before. So, I mean, yeah. Whereas, I mean, by and large, the Bond films are fairly episodic with, you know, the looming specter of.
00:29:15
Speaker
Spectre pun intended maybe Kind of hanging over everything which I guess is how specter gets its name, right? It's because it is this kind of looming organization over all of the James Bond franchise and all of that all that James Bond does so if that's kind of why it's called specter I assume but Stephen
00:29:38
Speaker
We're a half hour in and we haven't even done the plot in 60 seconds yet. I was going to say, um, let's, let's probably do that. So, um, I've got the coin of justice queued up. Let's do the plot in 60 seconds. That's of course, for, for new listeners, where we flip our good friend, the coin of justice who, uh, dictates to us, which of us will recount the plot of 1969 on her majesty secret service in 60 seconds or less. Brett, are you ready to call it in the air? Uh, sure. Then call it heads.
00:30:10
Speaker
I hate you so much. How does this he can't keep getting away with it? Jesse Pinkman, by the way, he can't keep getting away with it. And yet he does every time. I hate you so much. And you didn't even watch the movie. I was so excited to make you like do the plot for him. I should have just lied and said it came up, Tails. You could have. You could have. But I appreciate your honesty. You are an upstanding gentleman, sir. I've never been anything but honest with regard to how the coin of justice shakes out. So.
00:30:39
Speaker
Because here's the thing. Here's the thing about the coin of justice. The coin of justice is in terms of what we do here, all powerful, and it mandates our final. So if you were to defy its ruling, who knows what will happen? Right. Here's the thing. I am not going to chance it.
00:31:01
Speaker
So there you go. So the Court of Justice has dictated that I will again for for whatever reason. At this point, I have got to have done this more than you. Like you had such a streak going early on. And by this point, I have easily overtaken you. Oh, yeah, absolutely. I don't. I think I've done it like the last 10 times at least. I don't get it. Like some look somebody out there. I don't care who somebody run probability on 50, 50 chances.
00:31:32
Speaker
How much should I have bought a lottery ticket by now? All right, let's do this. You got 60 seconds on the clock. Oh, yeah, that's the thing I have to do. I was so I mean, if you want to take it, I will happily. I was so engrossed by.
00:31:51
Speaker
The fact that I'm still going. All right. Your time starts right now. James Bond, this time played by George Lazenby, saves a woman from committing suicide by drowning on the beach. He then follows her to a casino and they make sweet, sweet lovin'. And then he finds out that she is the daughter of a crime lord.
00:32:14
Speaker
and the crime lord wants him to tame her, which is super gross. Anyway, he gets tasked later with going to Bern, Switzerland to infiltrate the... 30 seconds. ...Organization Spectre by Ernst Stavro Blofeld, played by Telly Savalas. He pretends to be a genealogist.
00:32:34
Speaker
and ends up going there, and there's a bunch of women who are a part of this. They think it's helping them, and in fact, he's brainwashing them into assassinating people, like Zoolander, I guess, is the plot. There's a big ski chase. Tracy helps him escape. That's the girl from the beginning that he helps from suicide. They escape. They get away. He ends up marrying her in Portugal. They leave. And that's time. There's a drive-by shooting, and she dies. I was almost done. Almost there. I was so close.
00:33:04
Speaker
Literally, I was right there. Well, thank you for telling me how the movie ended. You're welcome. It's actually a really poignant ending. They're literally it's it's Irma and Blofeld drive by and shoot up the car.
00:33:20
Speaker
And she, Bond manages to survive, but Tracy dies via head wound. And so Bond's like cradling her lifeless body as an officer shows up and he just keeps whispering, it's okay, it's okay, we've got all the time in the world. And it's actually like one of the most, one of the more downbeat James Bond endings, honestly. And it's actually really poignant and sad.
00:33:48
Speaker
And it's kind of a bummer you didn't see it. Well, let's be honest, I don't know if I would have appreciated it at that point. I would have just been waiting for the movie to end. You're just you're such a Philistine, Brett. Wow, Steven, damn. All right. Carry on. But yeah, no, I think this is this is a great movie. So in canonically in the books, this is actually the first meeting between James Bond and Blofeld.
00:34:16
Speaker
which is why when the two of them meet in this movie, they don't recognize each other. Whereas canonically in the films they had met in the previous movie, which was, but you only live twice was the previous film. And then that one, the role of Blofeld was played by disenfranchised favorite actor, Donald Pleasance.
00:34:42
Speaker
So they do actually meet face to face in that movie. But again, because this is such a faithful adaptation, it leads to this kind of
Fan Theories and Bond Personas
00:34:55
Speaker
disconnect between the films because in the books this is the first time they met and had they met before and Blofeld and Bond were actually the same two people then Blofeld probably would have recognized James Bond and vice versa which has led to
00:35:13
Speaker
one of my favorite fans out no I'll just say it's my favorite fan theory and the only one I actually subscribe to which is the theory and I know a lot of diehard Bond fans absolutely hate this theory but I think it actually makes sense which is the idea that James Bond is not a actual person but is instead a
00:35:34
Speaker
a mantle that is passed on from spy to spy, and different actual individuals take up the mantle of James Bond throughout history. Again, I know Eon does not subscribe to that. Diehard James Bond fans do not subscribe to that. In my thinking, it's the only explanation that actually makes any kind of sense.
00:35:53
Speaker
I've actually watched a couple of videos about it and there's way too much evidence because most people strike this movie from canon and it's the only movie that gives any credible evidence to that theory. If you watch all of the other movies, there's tons of evidence against that theory.
00:36:13
Speaker
Sure, and I think it depends on what you choose to, because there have been some of those videos, because I've watched a few of the same, where they're just like, well, we can discredit all of this stuff, all of these things that prove this theory, because we're going to ignore those, and we're going to focus on all these things that disprove that theory. Whereas if you paid attention to the stuff that you say disproves that theory, it actually makes the other theory seem a lot more credible.
00:36:38
Speaker
I don't know. I think it's just a matter of preference. I like the idea that there are multiple bonds. It makes sense that this would be the only Lazenby bond then, because as soon as he starts, takes on the role of James Bond, the woman that he loves ends up dying at the end of it. And so he just kind of backs out of the spy game altogether.
00:36:54
Speaker
Like that makes sense and they have to call up the previous guy To take over again, and then he decides no I'm actually gonna bow out and then they have to find another James Bond It also doesn't make sense that it's the same James Bond acting from the mid 60s all the way to the late 90s early 2000s With that with him still being you know the same age that Pierce Brosnan is That just if you're subscribing to that theory, it just doesn't make sense
00:37:20
Speaker
That's all movie shenanigans, though. But I'm but I'm just saying, I mean, it, again, if you're willing to discredit as movie shenanigans, then you can discredit me. You can you can just pick or choose whichever theory you want to subscribe to is what I'm saying. I'm not going to go through and pick apart like, well, this is the reason why it is the same person. And this is the reason why it is. I just I don't care. I'm not I'm not that kind of nerd. I just think it makes sense and is kind of a fun thing to think about. And if you don't, that's cool. You're a different kind of nerd than I am.
00:37:50
Speaker
Well, I think that's that's all of that is one of the reasons this yet another reason why this fits our criteria because this movie is not considered canon by most fans because it's separate. It's it's it's the only movie that lends credit, like, in my opinion, lends credibility to the it's just a mental theory because he even has a line at the beginning. I bet that doesn't happen to the last guy.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yeah, so which is meant as it meant as a throwaway joke, but it's very much an kind of a wink and nod to the audience. And then the very next movie, which I think is Diamonds are Forever, it begins by like saying, oh, well, we're glad you're back from your long vacation bond or double seven. You know, is the referencing the fact that, oh, Connery wasn't in the last one. It was that other guy.
00:38:40
Speaker
You know, so I mean, there are kind of these in universe winks to that, but I don't know. I just think I just think it's fun. That theory is fun.
00:38:49
Speaker
Or the fact that Blofeld, when he finds out that he's Bond, doesn't go, you're not Bond. I've met Bond. I know James, I know 007, and you, sir, all know 007. Yeah, I mean, it's perfect for something for Blofeld to say. But it's whatever, man. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day. It's just a fun thing to think about. It's a fun fan theory.
00:39:12
Speaker
And, you know, I, I generally don't like fan theories just as a rule. Um, but this is, this is the one exception I think to that for me personally, like, I just think it's a fun fan theory and, uh, I like it. And I think it actually, unlike most fan theories actually like makes the movies a little better and a little more fun. So again, you may disagree. Your mileage may vary and that's fine. It's okay to have an opinion different from another person's opinion.
00:39:41
Speaker
Yeah. It's okay to have an opinion different from a large corporation and a character copyright holder as well. It's okay to have a different opinion from their opinion also. Exactly. Because you know what? Just don't be a dick. Yeah, just don't be a dick about it. Just like what you like. It's fine. Just don't be a dick about it. Yeah, you know our motto, your disenfranchised. Don't be a fan. Just like stuff. Just like stuff, man. Just like what you like. It's okay.
00:40:11
Speaker
And we'll let you like what you like if you let us like what we like. That seems fair. Yeah, take this episode, for example. I don't like this movie, and Steven thinks I'm a Philistine for even considering not liking this movie. But does that mean that I hate Steven? No. No. We respect one another's opinions. Correct. Even if he's kind of mean about it sometimes. It's OK. I have probably called you worse things than a Philistine. Maybe. I don't know. Have you? Wait, don't answer that.
00:40:43
Speaker
So the director of this film, Peter Hunt, had previously been an editor on a lot of the other Bond films, actually.
Direction, Style, and Fashion of Lazenby's Bond
00:40:52
Speaker
He was an editor on Dr. No, From Rush With Love, Goldfinger. And he was also an editor on another 60s era spy franchise, The Ipcrest File, starring Michael Kain.
00:41:08
Speaker
which is one of those forgotten British spy franchises, but he was a long-serving editor for the Eon Corporation for the Broccoli family. He had done a lot of Bond movies, and so they're like, hey, we'll let you take your shot at directing one of these. This was the movie that he directed, and I think it's great.
00:41:30
Speaker
I mean, like cinematography and direction, not bad. I mean, yeah, for a movie of this era, I thought it was fine. Yeah, looks good. And I think he's it's very much a movie. It also is very much a movie set in its time and place. And I think that's nowhere more apparent than the wardrobe.
00:41:51
Speaker
Bond is wearing like ascots and cravats and nowhere does Bond look like more of a fancy boy than he does here. Which I think is another reason why this movie lends credence to the different Bond is different people theories because no other Bond looks like George Lazenby's Bond. He's very much dressing in what counts for late 60s cool, late 60s fashion.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, if you would tell me that Mike Myers based his awesome powers on this bond, I would believe you at least in terms of the like clothing choices, 100 percent, 100 percent. Yeah, it's it makes perfect sense. Absolutely. Like, I mean, the. The suit that he wears in burn.
00:42:44
Speaker
is pretty much like from the neck to the waist is pretty much the Austin Powers suit. Like it's with the blue jacket and the ruffles. Like it's pretty much the same thing. Yeah, absolutely. Which is again, it's great.
00:43:02
Speaker
George Lazenby is an Australian model and he is the lucky man who lands the gig of James Bond. Before this, I think he was mostly in advertisements in Great Britain because this is his very first film role. He has never done another film before this one. This is his very first film role and he is the lead of a major franchise. That is wild that this is his very first film.
00:43:30
Speaker
It's got doomed to fail written all over it though. I mean with that attitude, sure. Well, no, but like, I mean, take all that into consideration. You're taking somebody who theoretically has no acting experience, has only been a model, gets the part mostly because of how he looks, and you're going to throw him as the lead in a major franchise that's got
00:43:57
Speaker
doomed to fail written all over regardless of what you think about this movie sure i mean brandon ralph is in kind of a similar situation when he takes over as superman in 2006 although he actually has credits to his name prior to that um not a lot of them mind you like he's still very much an unknown but he gets count cast as as clark kent and superman based
00:44:21
Speaker
Again, predominantly on how he looks. Now, that is, of course, another movie that we will absolutely cover on this podcast one day, though it'll probably be a while because that director is awful, fully canceled in our original He Who Shall Not Be Named. So, you know, we're going to have to talk about an entire episode of where we don't mention the director at all.
00:44:40
Speaker
even though there is plenty to talk about with that director. I mean, we definitely could just, because of him, strike that episode from the record altogether. We don't have to talk about that movie because of him. Sure. Sure. I mean, there are other Superman adjacent stuff that we can talk about. That's very true.
00:44:56
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it's it's a real John Landis situation. Like we don't. But not only not only is the director like fully canceled, but the main villain, the actor playing the main villain in that movie also fully canceled. Like those like just like cursed movie kind of things. That's a double reason to not talk about that movie ever. Oh, yeah.
00:45:18
Speaker
Um, but yeah, I mean, George Lassenby, uh, he goes on to, uh, to work in a, in a lot of other van, like he still maintains work over the course of his career. But I mean, this is easily the biggest movie he has ever done and will ever do. And it's his very first one. He's still around, still kicking. Uh, he was born in 1939, which makes him hang on and try to do some math here real quick.
00:45:46
Speaker
82 years old right now. I mean, he's still kicking. He's still working. He's still making things. He there's a Hulu documentary about him called Becoming Bond, which is really interesting. If you've not checked it out, I would highly recommend that you do so. But it's basically kind of about his story and how he became James Bond. So pretty interesting why he never did it again after this after this movie.
00:46:10
Speaker
which essentially comes down to a couple of things. One, his agent told him to to get out while the getting is good because there's no way Bond will be able to last after the 60s. Things are changing too fast, man. And right, kind of one of those like taking the bad advice from the wrong people. And I think he's also on some level worried about just being
00:46:35
Speaker
in Connery's shadow and wanting to try to break out and do something on his own. Ultimately, that doesn't work for him. And ultimately, the Bond franchise keeps going strong to this day. So ultimately doesn't work out for him. But literally, that's why this is the only George Lazenby movie.
00:46:52
Speaker
But here's the thing, I kind of like him as James Bond. Like, I think he he pulls off the effortless cool. He does the I mean, he is absolutely believable in the scenes where he is needing to like where he's able to like effortlessly seduce women. But also he's very believable doing the actual like fighting and the spy craft itself. Now, his voice was dubbed
00:47:18
Speaker
in when he is masquerading as Hilary Bray, who is the genealogist, which is his cover when he goes into Bern, Switzerland. But this is one of the only movies where James Bond is
00:47:35
Speaker
pretending to be someone not named James Bond, because usually everyone just knows who James Bond is, which kind of makes him the worst spy ever. But in this one, like he's still a spy. He he's still kind of bad. This just always struck me as weird, like everyone's like, ah, Mr. Bond. And he's just everyone just knows who he is. Oh, OK. Oh, did you see that guy? It's James Bond. Just follow James Bond, kids.
00:47:57
Speaker
Which is so I mean, I haven't seen a whole lot of bonds to be fair. But is it is it normal for them to for people to refer to him as commander bond? So he is a naval naval intelligence.
00:48:11
Speaker
So he is, that is actually his military rank is commander. Yes. Okay. I just, I don't remember. And again, I haven't seen a whole lot of movies, so stop me if I'm terribly wrong, but it felt weird when they called him commander bond. Is that something they call him in other movies a lot? Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. I don't know. It felt weird for some reason. I don't know why.
00:48:32
Speaker
Well, and again, but, you know, that's a character like that. Like that is his title. Like the character itself was created in we didn't do any work on the character. Oh, my gosh. We're this is such a bad podcast. Why does anyone listen to this podcast? But I don't know. Hey, we appreciate you for listening. We love you.
00:48:51
Speaker
Thank you. James Bond invented by journalist and novelist Ian Fleming in 1953 based on exploits that Fleming and certain other compatriots of his experience during the Second World War on a team that included actor Christopher Lee, if I'm not mistaken.
00:49:14
Speaker
Like Christopher Lee did a lot of that kind of stuff as well. And I think Roald Dahl might have also been part of that organization. Like there were a few famous people that kind of came out of that world. Wow. All right. That's cool. Yeah. But but in this so, you know, there are aspects, I think, of
00:49:34
Speaker
James Bond, because he's coming out of a very, you know, World War II, pro-Britain kind of sensibility. So there is this intense Britishness to that character, this kind of British Imperial-ness to the character that has, that aspect of the character, I think, has since fallen very out of fashion.
00:49:51
Speaker
But I think that's essentially kind of what that thing that's baked into the character that I think a lot of people in this era are responding to. And the films themselves are very indebted to that reading and in future versions have to kind of steer away from it as imperialism becomes less and less fashionable because of its
00:50:15
Speaker
because of its terrible-ness really as an ideology. But he bases the look of the character on singer Hoagy Carmichael. Hoagy Carmichael has very pronounced features. I'm actually going to message you this link to Hoagy Carmichael's picture here in the chat so you can take a look at what James Bond is supposed to look like.
00:50:41
Speaker
But he's got kind of long, we don't even want to say angular features. He's got kind of a hang dog expression, a large nose, slicked back hair. I mean, not an unattractive gentleman by any stretch of the imagination, but also not what you expect when you think of James Bond either. I don't know. He looks kind of like Daniel Craig. You think so? He's a little Daniel Craigie. Maybe if you took Daniel Craig's face and just kind of stretched it a little lengthwise maybe.
00:51:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, he's got, he's got a little, I don't know, man. He's got a little, maybe a little Roger Moore, maybe a little, little Daniel Craig, a bit, I don't know, man. This feels like, I mean, yeah, I look at that picture and I'm like, yeah, that's totally James Bond.
00:51:26
Speaker
But the idea of the character Fleming said in an interview with The New Yorker, when I wrote the first one Bond novel in 1953, I wanted Bond to be an extremely dull, uninteresting man to whom things happened. I wanted him to be a blunt instrument. When I was casting around for the name of my protagonist, I thought, by God, James Bond is the dullest name I ever heard.
00:51:50
Speaker
It actually belonged to an ornithologist that I think Fleming knew. I wanted the simplest, dullest, plainest sounding name I could find. James Bond was much better sounding, or was much better than something more interesting like Peregrine Carruthers. Exotic things would happen to and around him, but he would be a neutral figure, an anonymous blunt instrument wielded by a government department.
00:52:15
Speaker
which, again, feels very much like what bond is here versus who bond is in, I think, most other castings. I think the bond as blunt instrument is, I think, more interesting to me, which is why I think I enjoy more the bonds utilized in that capacity than the more proactive bonds. But that's, again, a matter of personal preference.
00:52:41
Speaker
Man, I really want to see a Peregrine Carruthers series. Right? That's just such a cool name. Such a cool name. That name is fantastic. It's great. Yeah. So look forward to the Peregrine Carruthers.
00:52:57
Speaker
series, I guess, coming soon from Brett. From disenfranchised publishing. Yes, our imprint label. It's hilarious. What he thought was such a boring name has become
00:53:15
Speaker
Honestly, one of the most badass names synonymous with cool. And I think honestly, I think so much of that is because honestly, just because of Connery's delivery of Bond James Bond. Oh, yeah. That imbues it with such so much cool that that basically I mean, Connery kind of becomes the to this day.
00:53:39
Speaker
the staple of what that character should be. He's the platonic ideal of what James Bond is.
00:53:47
Speaker
Yeah, we have Sean Connery to thank for everything that James Bond has become, I think. Yeah, much too, I think Connery's great joy and great anguish. I think he became so incredibly indelible or inextricable from that character. I think that was kind of his big regret is he never liked playing James Bond versus other actors like Terrence Stamp, who once went on record saying, you know, I've always wanted to play James Bond.
00:54:17
Speaker
but never got his chance. When they were looking at casting James Bond, they did look at two potential future Bonds. They did look at both Roger Moore and Timothy Dalton. Timothy Dalton turned them down because he felt he was too young at the time, which he absolutely was. Roger Moore turned down because he was working on The Saint at the time.
00:54:40
Speaker
um, see previous episode on The Saint with Val Kilmer and Elizabeth Shue. Um, but so, and that's kind of the, that kind of becomes the, the habit for Bond is when they start looking for actors, they've got a couple of people in mind. And when they don't work out the first time, they come back to them later and go, Hey, you remember when we talked to you about Bond? You, you interested again? Yes. No. Which is why if the next bond turns out to be Clive Owen, I will not be very surprised.
00:55:07
Speaker
Honestly, I am in the camp that a lot of people are in right now, and that we would really love to see Idris Elba play the part next. I think Idris Elba is a little too old at this point. I think if he had taken over when Craig did, I think it would have been perfect. But I think at this point he's a little too old. I would like to see them go a little outside the box. But again, that's me. It's a very Doctor Who situation, right? Idris Elba playing the part is outside of the box for these people.
00:55:33
Speaker
uh right right but i think he in a lot of ways he seems to be the heir apparent and i don't think he's particularly interested based on some of the things that i've read like because they go hey because should james bond be black and he's like i don't know why isn't james bond a woman and everyone's like oh
00:55:50
Speaker
Yeah, well, I mean, hey, look, man, Doctor Who broke that glass ceiling. So maybe we finally get a female Bond. Who knows? From what I am given to understand, from what I have read about No Time to Die, it takes place when James Bond has retired. And there is a new 007 who is played by LaShonna Lynch, who is a who she is the actress who plays Monica Rambeau.
00:56:18
Speaker
in or Maria Rambo rather in Captain Marvel. So she is both she is both of African descent. She is black and she is British and female. So actually she's Jamaican descent. Sorry.
00:56:33
Speaker
I can already hear the angry, nerdy incel comments now. My God. I feel sorry for her if they choose her. I really do. She's going to get so much shit. But here's her. Here's her character description as Lashana Lynch has known me a new double agent who entered active service sometime after bonds retirement and was assigned the double seven number. So she is double seven in this movie. Now, I would not be terribly surprised if they killed her off in order to advance the plot. Just kind of frigged her because
00:57:04
Speaker
It's a male-led action franchise that seems like something they would probably do. Yeah, probably. I don't want that to happen. I think it would be cool if she was the next Bond. I think she would be really good at it. But yeah, there you go.
00:57:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah, so do I. But, you know, you're right. We're going to call it. We haven't seen the movie, but we're going to actually does not come out until October the 8th, which is a week after this episode drops. Usually we would try to release this week of. But they pushed the date forward a bunch. So now it. Or to push the date back, I think again. So now it is interfering with Spookython. So Spookython will be next week, which is why we're doing this now. But enjoy it.
00:57:48
Speaker
Yeah, we didn't want to interfere with spooky son because we know how much you guys like it And how much we like it as well. We like it as well So, you know, but it's still fine. Yeah, you know listen to this and then go watch the movie next week and tell us we were right if they
00:58:05
Speaker
Fridge the character. I mean, I will. I will be watching it and I will be able to tell you one way or the other. So there you go. I look forward to that. I might watch it. Who knows? It's is after having seen all the other. And here's the thing. It's got to be it's got to be better than Spectre, which is easily the worst of the Craig Bonds by a country mile. Yeah. I mean, no, I think I did enjoy Quantum of Solace maybe a little less, but they're both pretty bad.
00:58:35
Speaker
They're both pretty indefensible. I have seen most of the Daniel Craig bonds, but I don't think I saw the last one, so I can't really speak to that. Yeah, it's not good. It's not good. But yeah, so I mean, look, I like this. I think Lazenby does a pretty good job of kind of bond as he was initially conceived. I do also want to talk. We need to talk about Diana Rigg and we need to talk about Telly Savalas. We have to.
00:59:04
Speaker
Diana Rigg, RIP, Diana Rigg died actually last year, last September, almost a year, or a little over a year ago, she passed away. But she was known at this point predominantly, and honestly, still to this day, is predominantly known as Emma Peel.
00:59:23
Speaker
in the Avengers, which again, speaking of kind of anti-bond characters, John Steed is definitely kind of of that mold, is a very different kind of spy. But this movie comes out a year after that series wraps. So she is, again, has had her prominence on that role and then takes the role in this movie, apparently does not like George Lazenby very much, does not get along with him very well.
00:59:52
Speaker
Um, the two of them, uh, can a bit of a contentious relationship on set. Um, but she goes on, uh, I mean her next, her other big role, I guess for us now, she is in a game of thrones also as, uh, the, uh, the head of the house Tyrell, uh, Oleana Tyrell, uh, the.
01:00:14
Speaker
the the old woman doing all of the evil machinations behind the scenes for House Tyrell. But I mean, she's named Diana. She's she's a very prolific, very long lived British actress and
01:00:29
Speaker
Uh, I miss her. She's great. Um, but yeah, and I think, I think Teresa, the, or Tracy, the character that she plays is probably one of the best bond girls that we see, uh, is kind of a really good match for bond on a lot of levels. And, uh, ultimately the only one who was ever able to tie him down. No, no, it wasn't there that, uh, who's the one in the Daniel Craig series that like got close to doing that.
01:00:56
Speaker
Vesper Lind, but she dies before that opportunity ever really presented itself. But doesn't this one also die before that opportunity presents itself? No, because they get married, and then she dies. So she actually does tie him down, and then she dies. Oh, okay. So how did I just tomato tomato tomato? Six and one happens and the other?
01:01:18
Speaker
But, yeah, she actually Diana Riggs final credited role is going to be in Last Night in Soho, the new Edgar Wright movie that is coming up hopefully very soon. I've heard a lot about that movie and really, really want to see it. But apparently Diana Rigg will be playing a role in that movie.
01:01:36
Speaker
Well, that's cool. And that movie does look very good. I'm looking forward to it. So that that will be Diana Riggs last last role. And I, for one, I'm looking forward to seeing it. So, yeah, I mean, but she is she's she's an absolute icon. Absolute fantastic. Yeah. Love Diana Rigg. Absolutely. And then there's Telly Savalas, who loves your baby, Kojak himself, who I first saw in
01:02:03
Speaker
the Dirty Dozen, where he plays Maggot. His character's name is Maggot. And it is. Have you seen the Dirty Dozen, Brett? I don't believe I have now. It's so freaking good. Telly Savalas is like basically
01:02:22
Speaker
an unhinged like lunatic in it. And he's so good, absolutely brilliant. He's Pontius Pilate in the greatest story ever told. Again, his most prominent role for U.S. audiences is absolutely kojak, where he, you know, the lollipop sucking Greek detective from Chicago. Who? No, no, no, I'm aware of that. OK, I know him from that.
01:02:47
Speaker
Gotcha. But he's also he's in The Muppet Movie, which is a perfect film. He plays the I think the boyfriend of Madeline Kahn, who like tries to like beat up Kermit for for moving in on his girl. But yeah, it I mean, he's great. I love I love Telly Savalas. I think he's again another fantastic actor. I kind of love him as Blofeld in this movie.
01:03:14
Speaker
because, again, I think he's doing a good job of playing kind of the mastermind, but unlike Pleasance, he's not putting as much mustard on it. We talked in our Dracula episode about, and this is a thing we love about Pleasance, but Pleasance likes to make those big C choices. And Savalas isn't really making any of those. He's just like, this is how a mastermind plays it. This is how I'm going to play it.
01:03:37
Speaker
Let's be honest though Stephen would anybody be able to live up to a Donald Pleasance performance? No, and I mean Donald Pleasance is I would say the most iconic portrayal of Blofeld for sure like he's the one that dr. Evil is Absolutely based on in its entirety from the bald head to the gray jumpsuit to the you know sucking on the pinky thing like that's all pleasant and
01:04:03
Speaker
But I think Savalas is doing, again, really solid work without, again, without putting so much mustard on it. Not to say I don't love Pleasances Blofeld. I do. I like both of these actors playing these the same role. But, you know, I I like them both for different reasons. Ultimately, I think this is the better film.
01:04:22
Speaker
So I think I've got to give a slight advantage to Sivalis, but again, I cannot deny, like it's undeniable what Pleasance is doing. Pleasance, putting a lot of mustard on it. Sivalis, maybe just putting some ketchup on it. It's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to say he's from Chicago. He's actually born in New York.
01:04:43
Speaker
Um, but you know, Kojak Chicago, you know, maybe he's putting the neon green relish and, and the, the pickle and the tomato and the cell result and all the, all the stuff that goes on a Chicago dog. Maybe that's what he's putting on it. I don't know. But, uh, but I love it. That's, that's the thing. I love it. I think he's doing, I think they're both doing great work, but I, I like, I like Savalas's portrayal. And again, part of that is because of the grounded nature of the portrayal, like really.
01:05:09
Speaker
And I think part of the reason why this movie doesn't hit with audiences is because it's a much more grounded movie when up to this point, the Bond films have been getting progressively more unhinged, like they just keep ramping up, ramping up, ramping up. And this one takes everything down a little bit and plays it a lot quieter, which is why I think it's so great. I think the people that like it, I think they like that about it. But, you know, if you're a diehard James Bond fan, maybe this one isn't your cup of tea.
01:05:38
Speaker
Yeah, because I I do remember saying as I was watching this is like this is Even though I because much like you I back in the day I saw bits and pieces of old Bond films I never watched one altogether. So I am more familiar with the Donald Pleasance blow felt so like when this blow felt is on screen I remember being incredibly underwhelmed by it just like He's playing is very straight
01:06:04
Speaker
he doesn't even come off as that menacing he doesn't come off as that like he's supposed to be basically a supervillain more or less like and he doesn't he just he's just a regular dude trying to take over the world
01:06:21
Speaker
and ruin the world's economy, right? So I, it's just, I don't know, man, I guess, look, I guess at the end of the day, what I've learned throughout this episode is I just, I like my spy movies over the top in all senses of the word. And here's the thing, that's
01:06:37
Speaker
One of one of the one of my favorite things about the Bond franchise is that there is something in it for everyone. Like if you like that kind of over the top bizarre spy craft, you've got your early Connery movies, you've got your Roger Moore movies, particularly your late Roger Moore movies like that are very gadget heavy and goofy like Moonraker. He goes to space.
01:06:56
Speaker
James Bond doesn't need to go to space, but Star Wars had just come out. So James Bond absolutely needs to go to space. Yeah, of course he does. They just just put that on the poster. James Bond dot dot dot in space. That might have actually been the tagline for Moonraker. You say that as a joke, but that might have actually been the tagline for Moonraker. I'm going to look it up. I did look up just so we don't get emails about it later. I did look up Cojack. Apparently he was not a Chicago cop. I could have sworn he was a Chicago cop. Apparently he was from New York.
01:07:27
Speaker
But I did not know that. And also real quick, I'd be remiss if I did not say spice spice. James Bond and spice. That is one of two movies where the character Jaws shows up to. You see, you also love like a really weird henchmen with a gimmick. Like I love henchmen with a gimmick, man. A lot of those Bond movies had those gimmicky henchmen. OK, the actual tagline for Moonraker.
01:07:54
Speaker
where all the other bonds end, dot, dot, dot. So you got the dots. This one begins.
01:08:01
Speaker
Oh boy. And apparently we're all other James Bonds and his spies. Apparently. Apparently. I don't know. I'm just. But yeah, that's that's there's your tagline for Moonraker. But yeah, I mean, it is. It's truly a weird, almost unhinged franchise with lots of highs and lows. So I mean, you can find your your sweet spot within that franchise and it may not be the same as anyone else's. And you know what, guys, that is OK. That is OK.
01:08:31
Speaker
Um, Brett, do you have any other things to say about on her majesty secret service? Unfortunately, no, I wish I did. I wish you did too, but I really kind of don't. I'm not going to lie. I kind of was, I was kind of hoping you'd like this one a little more than you do, but I, I, I just, you know, just, I went in with high hopes. Cause I'm like, you know, I'm a fan of a bond movie. And you knew that I had a quite an affinity for this one. Cause I had pretty much let that slip in our text thread.
01:09:02
Speaker
I don't know, I'd like said I went in with high hopes and I was very disappointed. Maybe that was the problem. Maybe I should have went in with lower expectations. Well, and I think again, if you again, if you're familiarity with or conception of bond, is that like,
01:09:17
Speaker
really hyper stylized gadget kind of thing. This one's going to disappoint you because that's not what this movie is. Like this is about spy craft and a guy who's actually a spy. Now it does cement a lot of things that will get revisited back in later Bond movies. The fact that Bond was married, I think gets revisited in a couple of them. The fact that the world is not enough is the Bond family motto on the Bond family crest is introduced in this movie.
01:09:44
Speaker
which then becomes the title of the movie The World is Not Enough because at that point they were out of James Bond's story so they just made a new James Bond story and grafted a Bond sounding thing to it.
01:09:56
Speaker
It like this movie does introduce a lot of things that do get revisited in later Bond movies, which is interesting, considering this is a movie that is often forgotten about or kind of direct deraille or relegated to non canon, I guess I should say. There's a scene at the beginning where Bond is rummaging through his desk after he has quit MI6.
01:10:16
Speaker
And he's like digging out basically things from all the other movies that came previous, which a lot of people point to as, ah, but this is the same guy because he's got all this stuff. Who's to say you didn't just inherit that guy's office and this is just stuff he left behind? You know, I don't know.
01:10:31
Speaker
I'm just saying this movie references all the previous Bond movies as a way of making Lazenby seem like he's been in canon all the time. Like this guy's always been James Bond. What are you talking about? And then kind of dismisses him just as quickly. One interesting thing that this movie does do is it leaves his face out of a lot of the marketing.
01:10:52
Speaker
So if you look at our Tuesday teaser that I put out on social media, if you look at that poster, it's basically a guy who looks a lot like Bond with his arms crossed and then the words Bond is back over his face. So instead of a face, it's just the words Bond is back.
01:11:09
Speaker
So, I mean, they really kept his face out of a lot of the marketing. And if you look at the beginning, he's got an introduction very similar to the one that Bond gets, I think it's in Goldfinger or maybe Dr. No, but where it's a lot of close ups of his hands, his face, like his cigarette, like without actually showing his full face. So you don't get that reveal until like the money shot later on in the opening. That's interesting, especially considering he's a model. You should be marketing how he looks.
01:11:39
Speaker
But again, you know, because Connery so embodied that role, and this is one of the first times in a major franchise where you have like a character kind of passing on to another actor. Like that doesn't happen much in those days. It happens all the time now, but in those days, it didn't happen quite as much.
01:11:56
Speaker
So, you know, they want him to be seen as James Bond. And to market this as a James Bond movie, not on the strength of Connery, who we all know is James Bond, but on the strength of, hey, this is James Bond, that character you like. Yeah, the sort of switcheroo marketing that they do nowadays. I'm looking at Ghostbusters 2016. Yeah. So bitter.
01:12:22
Speaker
Look man, they tried to market it directly to our nostalgia when that movie had nothing to do with our nostalgia, okay? Is that why you don't like that movie? That's one of the reasons, but yeah, we'll get into that later. Sure. We've got a whole Ghostbusters episode coming up, guys. Which we keep teasing. We keep teasing it, don't worry, we'll get there. We're releasing it when Ghostbusters Afterlife comes out and that movie keeps getting pushed back, keeps getting pushed back, so we'll keep teasing it until we actually get to do it, but yeah.
01:12:47
Speaker
It's coming, don't even worry about it. I don't mean to intentionally bring it up, but that's a perfect example of the sort of marketing that, it's the switcheroo marketing where they're trying to fool the audience into spending the money, but not being entirely honest with them about what's going on.
01:13:03
Speaker
So prior to this, the franchise had really hit a lot of record highs. Like the movies had, if not just kept making more money, they definitely kept getting more profitable. So like Dr. No earns about 60 million internationally, or worldwide rather, from Russia with Love, 79 worldwide. Goldfinger, 125 million worldwide.
01:13:27
Speaker
thunderball 141 million worldwide, you only live twice 111 worldwide. So when this one comes out and only makes 22.8 million domestic, and about 82 million worldwide, it's seen as something of a disappointment, which is another reason why I mean, a lot of people would say, well, Lazenby is basically asked to leave the franchise, Lazenby left of his own accord, they were willing to go forward.
01:13:57
Speaker
with the Bond franchise with Lazenby as the lead. Lazenby left for his own reasons, but I'm sure the fact that there's a different actor playing Bond didn't sit well with a lot of people. And Diamonds Are Forever, the next film that comes out in 71, that one makes $116 million at the box office. So we're back at the rising numbers. And then Roger Moore takes over and earns the most money a Bond movie has made up to that point. And this kind of then feels kind of like a weird fluke.
01:14:25
Speaker
like just kind of a mistake that we made in handing this franchise over to an Australian actor. I ultimately don't think that's the case. Again, that's my own kind of personal perspective coming in there a little bit. But, you know, I think this movie was unfairly maligned at the time for a few different reasons.
01:14:43
Speaker
Um, but I think it's gotten a lot of critical reappraisal over the years. A lot of people have gone back and revisit it, revisited this one and said, Oh, this one rules actually. Uh, and it does. It's one of my favorite bond movies. Um,
01:14:56
Speaker
I think it's actually really, really good. I know, again, you disagree with me, but that's, again, I think a matter of preference. And like we said, this movie, there's something in this franchise for everyone. So there's no need to get hung up on like, which bonds and which movies that we like and don't like, although we will absolutely get into that. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, it's interesting, because like, I wonder if if it was gonna be had and left.
01:15:26
Speaker
and they had stuck with him for another movie, do you think that kills the franchise? Or do you think they still try to be like, all right, you're not doing well enough, let's bring in somebody else? And then it's just like, then we get, what's the name, Diamonds are Forever is the next one? Diamonds are Forever would have been the one that he would have done. Okay, so yeah, we do Diamonds are Forever with him. Yeah. It tanks.
01:15:50
Speaker
Well, then I think we go we either do what they ended up doing, which is passing the franchise on to more. Yeah, or they try to get Connery back for another, which is what they, again, actually ended up doing. So they got Connery back for one more and then pass the franchise on to more. Yeah, so I guess is, do you think that this was always going to happen this way? Or probably?
01:16:09
Speaker
Honestly probably like it again it's hard to say like if if lassen be had different management if he had not if that management and himself had not completely lost faith in the bond franchise for one reason or another. Like would it have done better it's entirely possible would he have been you know in the role for a long time maybe.
01:16:30
Speaker
Ultimately, though, this is all we have to go on. And so again, this movie does kind of feel like a weird outlier. Like I grew up being told this is the worst Bond movie, so I was really not looking forward to watching this one. And then I watched it last year and I went, No, this one actually rules. This one's actually really good. Again,
01:16:48
Speaker
Your mileage on that opinion may vary, but I was really pleasantly surprised. And upon rewatch this year, when I rewatched it for this podcast, yeah, it's still really rules. It's still really great. I like it a lot.
01:17:00
Speaker
I disagree, but it's a matter of preference. It's what you like in a spy movie. At the end of the day, it's what you like in a spy movie, man. That's ultimately, it comes down
Comparison of Bond Film Styles
01:17:09
Speaker
to, yeah. If you want over-the-top gadgets and over-the-top villains and henchmen with gimmicks, you've got plenty of other Bond films to go watch. And plenty of other non-Bond films to watch. Yeah, and if you like more of the type of spy movies that Steven's into, you've got this.
01:17:29
Speaker
Yeah, this one's for you. Tomatometer score on this one, 81%. The Critics Consensus, George Lazenby's only appearance as 007, is a fine entry in the series, featuring one of the most intriguing Bond girls in Tracy Di Vincenzo, Diana Rigg, breathtaking visuals, and some great ski chases. The Metacritic score is 61, based on generally favorable reviews from 12 critics.
01:17:55
Speaker
And the Letterbox score is a 3.4. Brett, how did you rate On Her Majesty's Secret Service out of five stars? So based on all of those numbers you just gave me, I don't feel like I'm in the majority because I gave it like a one and a half. Oh, whereas I gave it a four and a half. I just meant you're in the majority based on like the type of spy movie you seem to like, because that is
01:18:24
Speaker
type of spy movie, I think that gets made a lot more than this one, unfortunately, like I don't have a whole lot of spy movies that I can go to and be like, ah, yes, the subtle, intriguey kind of spy movie. Because even the Jack Ryan stuff is getting more and more action oriented, which I'm just like, I mean, that guy's an analyst, right? I'm just an analyst.
01:18:45
Speaker
This is why Hunt for Red October is the best of those, speaking of Connery, because it's literally Alec Baldwin being really bad at action and then going, ah, I'm an analyst. What does this mean? And doing all the, oh, but he really means this. And I met the guy once, and this is what I think he's doing right now. It's all that kind of stuff, like closed door meetings, and there's a spy, there's a mole on the ship, and who is it? All that stuff, I love it. And this movie is very much that.
01:19:12
Speaker
So I give this one four and a half stars, you gave it one and a half stars. But like I said, it's had a critical reappraisal of late. So I think a lot of those critic, critic scores are based on those reappraisal scores and not on maybe the initial critic scores as of 1969. Probably true. Probably true.
01:19:30
Speaker
So, yeah, this is the point in the episode where normally we would either have a Brett's video game corner, which there was no video game for on Her Majesty's Secret Service. No, I mean, I was last to be a playable character in GoldenEye. I that's a really good question, actually, because they had all the other bonds at the time as playable characters in GoldenEye. So, yeah, I don't think he was included initially, but he was.
01:19:59
Speaker
Well, yeah, he wasn't included, but all the other bonds were if you had the game genie style ways to hack the game, the game shark wasn't game shark. Yeah, that sort of thing where you can unlock the code that was in the game.
01:20:18
Speaker
to play as those other bonds, which is why I remember it, because at least one of my friends had that stuff where we could unlock the characters that were in the coding of the game, but not actually in the game. But but yeah, I mean, I could take this time to talk about GoldenEye, but I mean, it's not really relevant to this movie, especially since there's not a not a George Lassen be in there. No. And but there may be another opportunity for me to talk about GoldenEye the video game.
01:20:48
Speaker
Um, maybe, maybe on a Patreon. Uh, let's,
Patreon Launch and Exclusive Content Announcement
01:20:53
Speaker
let's talk about that. Cause again, this is the part of the show where we would normally pass it off to a Brett's video game corner or to a top five list. And, uh, uh, it should be noted, Brett, that as of right now, we are not doing any more top five lists on this feed or really on this podcast. Honestly, if we're being really honest.
01:21:12
Speaker
And we're not, but why not? We're not. And I think the reason for that is because starting tomorrow as of the release of this episode, starting tomorrow, we are going to be launching the disenfranchised Patreon. Bop bop. Disenfranchised Patreon.
01:21:32
Speaker
And free balloons for the kids. And free balloons for the kids. Free balloons are not actually for the kids, or are they free? So yeah, so what we are going to do is we're going to actually start a Patreon. So if you want to, a lot of people have been asking for it. People have been talking. They're talking about the Patreon. I don't know what it is. We're looking into it.
01:21:49
Speaker
but you know a lot of people talking the saying it's good I don't know we'll see we're actually launching a patreon tomorrow tomorrow you can go to patreon.com slash disenfranch pod and for the low low price of just five dollars you can get two additional podcasts produced by Brett and I for your ear so if
01:22:09
Speaker
If four to five podcasts a month is just not enough for you, hey, guess what? We're gonna give you a couple of extras. And what we're going to give you, Brett, is what? So what you're gonna get for that $5 donation, you will get two, for now, two episodes a month of top five lists. Well, what's it called, Brett? What's that new side podcast called?
01:22:39
Speaker
It is called this in five chest. Hey, what a great name. Stroke a genius marketing there. Synergy, baby synergy where, you know, you'll get to hear Stephen and I talk about top five lists of all sorts of things. We'll go ahead and give you a little teaser right now. The next one coming up will be James Bond related. And that one will drop on October the fifth.
01:23:06
Speaker
So we're launching the Patreon tomorrow. You got five days to get your monies in. And that way you can be the first the first of all your friends to hear our first Patreon episode. Top five. It's actually a James Bond Stravaganza.
01:23:21
Speaker
Yeah, we're talking top five favorite James Bond movie themes, top five favorite James Bond films. We're even going to do a power ranking of our Bond actors. Technically, there are six, so it's not going to be a top five, but we're including it on the top five just because of course we are.
01:23:40
Speaker
So that is, again, twice a month on the fifth and the fifteenth. You will get new episodes of Disson 5 Chised from us, two guys that you like. We're going to have a bit more information about it tomorrow when it launches. You can tune in back here to the feed and there will be a little a little more information about it. But yeah, that's what we've got for you and.
01:24:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's the exciting news. So if you want to hear our thoughts on what the best James Bond themes are, who the best James Bond actors are, what the best James Bond films are, yeah, we've teased some of that here, but you don't even know the extent of our thoughts on these matters. So tune in tomorrow, patreon.com slash disenfranchpod, and we'll tell you all about it. Don't even worry about it. Yeah, and I hear some of you out there going, yeah, but why do I care? Let me tell you why you should care.
01:24:34
Speaker
Because we're some cool dudes. Yeah. We have fun banter. Yeah. It's entertaining to listen to. Yeah. Don't you like to be entertained? Yeah. I like to be entertained. Yeah. And being super entertained for just $5 a month, that seems like a pretty good deal. That's a great deal. Just $5 a month at $60 a year. It's really not that bad when you consider all the entertainment value that you get from this podcast. I mean, if you think of all the stuff we're giving you for free,
01:25:04
Speaker
We're going to hold the good stuff back for behind the paywall. You better believe that's going to happen. A fool in his money or soon parted some of it our way. You know what I'm saying? All of that was terrible marketing, Steven. You quoted them an entire yearly price. You called them fools. What are you doing? Because you've never insulted our listener base before. Shut up. They don't know that.
01:25:30
Speaker
If they've been listening for any length of time, they know that. Look, everybody, I love you. Please support a Patreon. It's going to be great. Like it's all joking aside. We want to provide more content for you. We love doing this. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. It's a lot of fun. And we hope you have fun listening. So.
01:25:50
Speaker
Look, the spiel's over. We've talked about it too long. Let's move on. Yeah. So I mean, we won't belabor the point. But yeah, again, tune in tomorrow for more information about that.
Social Media and Upcoming Episode Teaser
01:25:59
Speaker
We'll have some more to say tomorrow for sure. Until then, this is the disenfranchised podcast.
01:26:05
Speaker
You know us, you love us, you can find us on all your social medias at DisinfranchPod. And by all your social medias I of course mean Twitter, Instagram, Letterboxd, Facebook, you can find us on all of those. You can shoot us an email, DisinfranchPod at gmail.com. Let us know how we're doing. Let us know how terribly misguided and wrong we are about James Bond.
01:26:26
Speaker
Um, or, or let us know if you're team Brett or team Steven in the whole James Bond argument of it all. Um, we'd, we'd love to hear your thoughts. Uh, you can also, while you're on, uh, your podcatcher of choice, please leave us a nice juicy five star rating and review would really appreciate it. It's going to help us find a lot more listeners, uh, and get, you know, spread the, spread the good word of disenfranchised for sure. And honestly, like it's been happening.
01:26:51
Speaker
It has. And I would say it is easily the best way that you can help us, for sure. Particularly if you don't want to give us five bucks for Patreon, you can absolutely give us a rating and review of five stars because it doesn't cost you anything. So it's a nice cheap way to help us out if you're not quite willing to take the Patreon jump quite yet.
01:27:14
Speaker
But yeah, I am one of your hosts, Stephen Foxworthy. You can find me on social media, Twitter, Letterboxd and Instagram at Chewy Walrus. Brett, where can we find you on social media? Should we be so inclined? You can find me on Twitter, Instagram, Letterboxd at sus s u s underscore warlock.
01:27:33
Speaker
Fantastic. So until next time, when we launch into Spookython, you've been asking for it. We've been really excited about it. And we've got some great, great guests. In fact, I'll just go ahead and tease what we got next week because we've already recorded that episode. We've had that episode in the books for like a month now. We're going to be talking about the Peter Jackson film going back to Peter Jackson. The Frighteners.
01:27:59
Speaker
with Enola Lugosi from the Slayaway Network. We had a great time talking to them. It was actually a really fantastic conversation. Can't wait to talk to them again. But it's a great episode, and we're excited for you guys to hear it next week. So tune in. Please, because it's our favorite time of year. It's the most wonderful time of year.
01:28:20
Speaker
Mm hmm. And Brett has a pumpkin spice latte in front of him as we record this. So I very much do. Yeah, he's he's basic all over this thing. And I had a pumpkin muffin and a pumpkin scone and then I drank my pumpkin spice latte.
01:28:37
Speaker
That's too much pumpkin for me, but I am glad you like it, my friend. So until next time, I am your host, Steven Foxworthy, for my co-host, Brett Wright, and myself. I won't thought martini shaken. More stud.
01:29:08
Speaker
you