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Ep 12. Susan Daniels OBE, CEO National Deaf Children’s Society: Driving Change and Dreaming Big!
98 Plays4 years ago
“Our vision is a world without barriers for every deaf child... Our job as an organisation is to challenge the culture of low expectations (for deaf children)”
There are over 50,000 deaf children in the UK and more than 34 million deaf children worldwide. It is important to encourage them – and their families – to dream big.
Susan Daniels is the CEO of the National Deaf Children’s Society, the UK’s largest charity for deaf children. The organisation raises awareness and provides expert support to families on childhood deafness, and campaigns for deaf children’s rights, so they have the same opportunities as everyone else.
As someone who sees herself as a leader, who just happens to be deaf, Susan is steadfast in her belief that a deaf child can do and achieve anything that a child with hearing can. What holds deaf and disabled children back are the inherent structures and expectations in society and education systems. Getting rid of such social, educational and cultural barriers is the first step towards meaningful equality.
We explore the ACEVO report, “Hidden Leaders: Disability Leadership in Civil Society”; and Susan shares her views on what leaders and organisations in civil society and beyond, need to consider in order to be truly disability-inclusive.
Susan also reflects on her own leadership journey. Over 28 years, Susan has overseen the National Deaf Children’s Society's grow from £1m to £24m annual income, influencing policy-makers and delivering real change for deaf children. Her advice to leaders is to always focus on the Big Picture, choose your battles and when in doubt or stuck, ask others for help.
Recorded February 2021.
Guest Biography
Susan Daniels has been the Chief Executive of the National Deaf Children's Society since 1992. Prior to that, Susan served in a number of leadership positions at the Royal National Institute for Deaf People (now Action on Hearing Loss).
Susan was a Commissioner of the Disability Rights Commission from 2003 until its merger with the Commission for Equality and Human Rights in 2007. Susan has also served as Chair of the UK Council on Deafness, the umbrella body for all organisations working in the field of deafness.
Susan is currently Chair of the NHS Newborn Hearing Screening Programme Quality Assurance Advisory Group. She is Chair of Groundbreakers, an informal networking group for female CEOs in the voluntary sector; and is also a member of the BBC Appeals Advisory Committee.
In 2006, Susan was awarded an OBE for services to deaf children and their families.
Links
https://www.ndcs.org.uk/
https://www.acevo.org.uk/reports/hidden-leaders/
There are over 50,000 deaf children in the UK and more than 34 million deaf children worldwide. It is important to encourage them – and their families – to dream big.
Susan Daniels is the CEO of the National Deaf Children’s Society, the UK’s largest charity for deaf children. The organisation raises awareness and provides expert support to families on childhood deafness, and campaigns for deaf children’s rights, so they have the same opportunities as everyone else.
As someone who sees herself as a leader, who just happens to be deaf, Susan is steadfast in her belief that a deaf child can do and achieve anything that a child with hearing can. What holds deaf and disabled children back are the inherent structures and expectations in society and education systems. Getting rid of such social, educational and cultural barriers is the first step towards meaningful equality.
We explore the ACEVO report, “Hidden Leaders: Disability Leadership in Civil Society”; and Susan shares her views on what leaders and organisations in civil society and beyond, need to consider in order to be truly disability-inclusive.
Susan also reflects on her own leadership journey. Over 28 years, Susan has overseen the National Deaf Children’s Society's grow from £1m to £24m annual income, influencing policy-makers and delivering real change for deaf children. Her advice to leaders is to always focus on the Big Picture, choose your battles and when in doubt or stuck, ask others for help.
Recorded February 2021.
Guest Biography
Susan Daniels has been the Chief Executive of the National Deaf Children's Society since 1992. Prior to that, Susan served in a number of leadership positions at the Royal National Institute for Deaf People (now Action on Hearing Loss).
Susan was a Commissioner of the Disability Rights Commission from 2003 until its merger with the Commission for Equality and Human Rights in 2007. Susan has also served as Chair of the UK Council on Deafness, the umbrella body for all organisations working in the field of deafness.
Susan is currently Chair of the NHS Newborn Hearing Screening Programme Quality Assurance Advisory Group. She is Chair of Groundbreakers, an informal networking group for female CEOs in the voluntary sector; and is also a member of the BBC Appeals Advisory Committee.
In 2006, Susan was awarded an OBE for services to deaf children and their families.
Links
https://www.ndcs.org.uk/
https://www.acevo.org.uk/reports/hidden-leaders/
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Transcript
Vision for a Barrier-Free World for Deaf Children
00:00:00
Speaker
Our vision is a world without barriers for every deaf child, with a particular focus on these social and educational barriers that hold deaf children back. And deafness isn't a learning difficulty, so there's absolutely no reason why deaf children shouldn't succeed, just in the same way as their peers do.
Introduction to the Charity CEO Podcast
00:00:29
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:00:45
Speaker
I'm the Rio Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.
Susan Daniels' Leadership and Early Inspirations
00:01:02
Speaker
Susan Daniels is the Chief Executive of the National Deaf Children's Society. As a leader who describes being deaf as her superpower, Susan has led the organisation for the past 28 years and has been instrumental in establishing it as the UK's leading charity for deaf children.
00:01:20
Speaker
Susan is adamant in her conviction that a deaf child can do and achieve anything that a child with hearing can, and that as a society, it is our job to remove the social, cultural, and educational barriers that hold deaf and disabled children back. I hope you enjoy the show. Hi, Susan. Welcome to the show. It's so lovely to have you with us today. Thank you for inviting me, Divya. It's great to be with you.
00:01:48
Speaker
So let's kick off with our icebreaker round. I have five questions for you, and if you're ready, we can get started. Yeah, excellent. Looking forward to it. Question one. As a child, what did you dream of being when you grew up? So that's an interesting question. So I think it was a mixture of things. So it was an astronaut, a champion water skier, or a prime minister. Wow, I love that. So my parents were very can-do sort of people.
Lip Reading as a Professional Superpower
00:02:18
Speaker
having a deaf child, I think it was really important to them that the message that they gave me was to dream and think that anything was possible. And I actually think that my role at the National Deaf Children's Society encompasses elements of all of those. So yeah, that's what I think I wanted to do when I was a child. That's brilliant. Question two, what would you say is your professional superpower?
00:02:47
Speaker
So I think definitely being a lip reader is my professional superpower. And lip reading is a hard skill. It's not something that you can learn, but it's a huge advantage in many situations because you really do have to pay attention to what people are saying.
Lockdown Reflections and Family Time
00:03:06
Speaker
You have to look at them carefully and you pick up all sorts of cues as a result.
00:03:12
Speaker
That's so true, Susan. I love that you're saying essentially being deaf and being therefore a lip reader is your superpower. That's beautiful. Question three, what is a new perspective that all of the events of 2020 has given you? I mean, I think many people might say this, but for me, it's been the importance of family and friends and being locked down with my daughters who both have
00:03:42
Speaker
in their early 20s has just been a real pleasure. And I think as a family, we've got time that we never expected to have together. So when I look back on this time, the things that I'm going to remember the most about this time, obviously there's all the work aspects to it, but I think having that time, the four of us together has just been an absolute joy.
00:04:05
Speaker
Yes, that's so true. It's so important to treasure those family moments. And hopefully while you were with family, you had some time for entertainment, which lends itself to the next question. What was your favorite TV show during lockdown? So it was actually the Queen's Gambit. So that's a tale of a young woman who finds chest in an orphanage that she's in and becomes the grandmaster and beats all these guys along the way.
Inspirational Figures and Historical Impact
00:04:36
Speaker
So it's a fantastic show because there are themes of adoption, addiction, grief, grit and resilience and fantastic acting, amazing clothes and a great storyline with something for everyone. So I thoroughly recommend it.
00:04:52
Speaker
Excellent. It's not one I've seen yet, Susan, so I shall definitely be watching it now that you have said all of that. Our final icebreaker question. If you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? So it's a woman called Arina Sandalova, and she was a Polish social worker who saved over 2000 Jewish babies and children from
00:05:19
Speaker
Nazi death camps in the Polish Warsaw ghetto. So her story is not particularly well known and she was just an ordinary woman. So she organised a team of social workers to smuggle children out to safety by hiding them in ambulances, in trolleys, in suitcases, taking them through sewer pipes out of the ghetto into the non-Jewish areas.
00:05:45
Speaker
And then she changed the identity of the children that she rescued and placed them with Polish families. I just think that's an amazing story because she was just an ordinary person who was doing extraordinary things. Wow. Yes, I really like that. And what would you like to ask her? So my question to her would have been, so what gave you the strength to be so brave and put your life on the line in that way?
00:06:12
Speaker
because I think everyone aspires to be that brave, but when it actually comes to it, would you be?
History and Mission of the NDCS
00:06:18
Speaker
So that would be my question. Hmm. That's a brilliant question and really one that gives you pause for thought.
00:06:27
Speaker
So Susan, you are the chief executive of the National Deaf Children's Society, and you have been their CEO for an incredible 28 years, coming on 29 years, I believe. And I'd like to start off by hearing about the organization and its mission and vision. So tell us what you do at the National Deaf Children's Society.
00:06:48
Speaker
Yeah, it's a fantastic organisation. So it was actually founded by a group of parents in 1944 when bombs were dropping in London during the Blitz. So a group of parents came together because they wanted their deaf children to benefit from the new Butler Education Act that meant that all children would be able to go through to secondary education. So that up until that time, children had finished at primary and only those that were wealthy enough
00:07:18
Speaker
go on to secondary education. So this group of parents met in a flat in London because they wanted their children to be educated beyond primary. And I think that's just a fantastic story because it shows the power of people coming together, having that kind of vision
00:07:38
Speaker
and a very clear idea about what they wanted to do. So it was founded in 1944 and it initially started as a group
00:07:50
Speaker
groups of parents coming together across the country. And then it wasn't until the early 50s that one incredibly charismatic woman who was a journalist and the mother of a deaf child brought those disparate societies together as one national organization, which is where the National Deaf Children's Society was born. So our vision is a world without barriers for every deaf child.
00:08:16
Speaker
with a particular focus on these social and educational barriers that hold deaf children back.
Challenging Expectations and Educational Gaps
00:08:23
Speaker
And so those founding principles of the charity around parents coming together to support each other but advocating for change is something which is still very much at the heart of what we're about. So we remain true to the founding principles but within a completely different context and environment.
00:08:43
Speaker
So I understand that there are around 50,000 deaf children in the UK and about 34 million deaf children worldwide. And as you spoke about there, that a lot of the work of the National Deaf Children's Society is really rooted in challenging assumptions about what a deaf child's future can look like. In your experience, Susan, what is an assumption that hearing able people make about deaf people that you would really like to challenge or change?
00:09:14
Speaker
So I think what we find is that a culture of low expectations, particularly amongst professionals that work with deaf children and their families, but also to a degree from parents themselves. And our job as an organization is really to challenge that culture of low expectations and make every parent feel
00:09:39
Speaker
that their child has got the same opportunities as other children do. So we put a lot of focus on one area in particular around reducing the attainment gap. So there are two grades difference between the attainment of a deaf child and a hearing child and deafness isn't a learning difficulty. So there's absolutely no reason why deaf children shouldn't succeed.
00:10:05
Speaker
just in the same way as their peers do. So that's a huge challenge for us as an organisation. And I think we are getting there. So now the Department for Education doesn't say that the reason why deaf children are not doing so well in their GCSEs is just because that's the way it is. So we've managed to change the language that's used by the Department for Education in particular.
00:10:28
Speaker
and we are challenging those expectations, but there is still some way to go. So if we can really address that and make sure that we reduce the attainment gap and eliminate it entirely, then I think we're well in the right direction without regard.
Pandemic Challenges and Solutions for Deaf Children
00:10:46
Speaker
Yes, that's so important what you spoke about there, Susan, in terms of expectations and also the expectations that the deaf children have for themselves and their own lives and their own aspirations. So it's great to hear that some progress is being made with the DFE, but how do you find that this message is trickling down with respect to actually teachers and what's happening in schools?
00:11:12
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, this does take us onto the whole sort of pandemic and the impact that has had on deaf families. So obviously schools are closed at the moment, so that's been a whole scale move to online learning. And what I think people just don't appreciate is the huge challenge that presents to deaf children. So although a small proportion of those children we use sign language, they would all be using visual information to some degree,
00:11:43
Speaker
So being able to see the person that's teaching, being able to see the other children in the classroom, whether it's face to face or virtually, it's crucial. So we really need to get the message out there to teachers,
00:11:57
Speaker
87% of deaf children are in mainstream classes. So the vast majority could be the only deaf child in their class or let alone in the school. So a lot of people have got this assumption that deaf children are in special schools and actually that's not the case. Most of them are in mainstream schools. So we need teachers to be aware of how to teach those children
00:12:22
Speaker
but also to understand that they need to meet the needs of individual deaf children. And it's not difficult. The National Deaf Children's Society, we've got a plethora of resources that teachers can access to support them in teaching deaf children effectively.
00:12:40
Speaker
So talking a bit more about the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic and what the impact has been on the deaf community more widely, certainly in the very first lockdown last March, it seemed like the government had not really considered the needs of disabled people in their pandemic response. And now here we are again, nearly a year later in the middle of lockdown three, has much changed in terms of government policy and provision now, do you think?
00:13:09
Speaker
So when the Corona Virus Act was passed in March 2020, it gave powers to central local government to effectively reduce the rights of disabled people around education, care and mental health. Wow. That was the only group of people that had their rights diminished under that act.
00:13:30
Speaker
and also local authorities for a short period of time were able to suspend a child statement for what's now called the educational health and care plan. So that's a bit of an example of how the coronavirus impacted initially on disabled people generally. Now obviously, and this is a horribly overused term, it was a very unprecedented time and so some actions were taken
00:13:58
Speaker
to try and deal with that. We are talking about now what's almost a year ago. So our job has been to make sure that deaf children haven't lost out during the pandemic. So the move, particularly to online learning, is something that we've been having to fight hard on to make sure that families know that they can go back to schools and get them to think about the individual child.
00:14:23
Speaker
and then the whole thing around face masks have been a huge change. So when schools were operating, and we hope schools will be going back from March the 8th, that we really want to see all children back at school and we want to see deaf children back at school more than ever, because they lose out so much on all of that incidental learning, interaction with their peers, as well as learning itself. But if they're going to be wearing face masks in schools,
00:14:53
Speaker
you know, parents are caught between keeping their child at home or sending them back into school and not being able to understand anything that's going on. So what we're saying to local authorities, what we're saying to national government is that you need to think about the needs of individual children, talk to the child, talk to the family, bring in specialist teachers with the deaf, and they can then help the school navigate what needs to be done to meet the needs of that child.
00:15:22
Speaker
And do you feel that the government is listening? Have you had much traction in terms of your response so far? So we've received an assurance from the Minister of State that the new guidance will continue
00:15:35
Speaker
information about transparent face masks. So that's a step forward, but what we need to see is that promise delivered through the guidance. So again, it's going in the right direction. We've had that assurance, but it's just getting that promise actually delivered in writing. It needs to be the next step in all of this.
00:15:55
Speaker
The other thing which also impacted on deaf children and their families during the pandemic was at the beginning, audiology services. So screening, as you might know, every single baby has their hearing screened before they leave that maternity ward. And that was a campaign that the National Deaf Children's Society fought and won. And so screening was rolled out across the UK in 2006. So something that we're immensely proud of having achieved.
00:16:24
Speaker
But it was the case that screening carried on to a degree, but then children weren't being referred to audiology department if they needed further testing because a lot of audiologists were redeployed to the front line to support coronavirus wards and so on.
Digital Transition of NDCS Services
00:16:42
Speaker
So that meant now that was a huge backlog in terms of audiology appointments. So parents were
00:16:49
Speaker
Being referred to audiology, they would have a confirmation of deafness, but then it wasn't necessarily the case that their child's hearing aids would be fitted. And so there's now been that backlog and audiology services have got to play catch up. Professionals have been working flat out to support families. So it's not their choice, but obviously it's had a huge impact on many, many families with tiny babies where they haven't got the diagnosis and the hearing technology support that they might need.
00:17:18
Speaker
Of course, and that's hugely troubling for new parents, you've just had a new baby, you've been told that they've got some issues with hearing and but you're just waiting in limbo until further tests or treatment or indeed hearing aids etc can be provided. Yeah, yeah, that's right. So it's gradually coming back on track. But obviously, every lockdown has a sort of further impact on those waiting lists and on the backlog.
00:17:45
Speaker
Yes. So how has the National Deaf Children's Society had to pivot or change its own offering during the crisis? Yes. So like many organisations, we were becoming increasingly digital. So there was a whole direction of travel, which I think has been accelerated by the pandemic.
00:18:04
Speaker
So we moved all of our services online, both for parents, for young people and also for professionals. So for example, we run sessions for families with newly identified deaf children to bring them together with our staff and with professionals to provide that support from the moment that they find they have a deaf child. That kind of what used to be a family weekend has now gone online.
00:18:30
Speaker
We provide a support to families one-to-one through our network of family officers around the country. That's also gone online. What we found is the take-up has been phenomenal. So we've had a four-fold increase in uptake of these services online. So that's something which we will now never step away from because what it's done is it's equalised the playing field between families that can reach
00:18:57
Speaker
sort of urban areas easier from those that are in more rural areas or a very long way from any form of public transport. So by providing services online, you really have level with that playing field. And that's something which has been hugely beneficial.
00:19:15
Speaker
So that is something that we're going to continue with whilst always keeping in mind those families for whom it is really challenging to access our services digitally. So the definition of digital poverty are those families that don't have the kit, that can't access the broadband or don't have the skills and wherewithal to be able to do so. And so
00:19:41
Speaker
There are families in that situation, so our job is to make sure that we reach out to them and for those families, there will be face-to-face services which we will continue to deliver. But for the vast majority of them, we will continue with our digital offering.
00:19:58
Speaker
Yes, certainly the increase in access to services is something that a number of chief execs that I've been speaking with have said is a real positive having come out of this pandemic and the crisis during 2020 and the acceleration of digital adoption is certainly seen as a positive as well.
Growth and Governance of NDCS
00:20:18
Speaker
Are there any other positives that you would take from this crisis? So I think in a
00:20:24
Speaker
strange sort of way obviously all of our staff so 250 staff have been working from home literally it happened overnight so our IT team just worked flat out to get everybody operating from home and that equal playing field which I referred to earlier also applies to our staff
00:20:45
Speaker
So we had a situation where our London office, half of our staff are based in London, a quarter were home-based for out of the pandemic and then the rest were in our offices around the country. And also we have a small network of
00:21:01
Speaker
consultants who work through Deaf Child Worldwide, which is the international arm of the National Deaf Children's Society. So what it's done because everyone's working from home is that separation from those people that are home-based or working in an office in Birmingham or Cardiff or
00:21:19
Speaker
Belfast, they now are working on the same basis as the staff who were in London. So I think there's been a lot more cross-fertilisation between staff in different teams and staff across the organisation. So I think that has been a real benefit and I think we've been able to operate in a more
00:21:40
Speaker
agile fashion as a result. So there have been some definite positives for the organisation and I think also our trustee body has been fantastic during this time. So they've been there, come in when needed, but also understanding that our planning has to change and we all have to operate quite differently.
Disability Leadership and Inclusive Practices
00:22:02
Speaker
So yeah, I think some distinct positives.
00:22:06
Speaker
Susan, I'd like to talk now about a report that Akivo recently published. So Akivo is the Association of Chief Executives of Voluntary Organizations. And this report is called Hidden Leaders, Disability Leadership in Civil Society. It was produced by consultant Zara Todd and Ellie Monroe.
00:22:28
Speaker
Broadly speaking, the report looks at what needs to be considered in order to embed disability inclusive practices in organisations and some of the challenges around this that exist in civil society and across society more widely. So as somebody who identifies as a leader who happens to be deaf yourself, what did you think of this report and how big a challenge is this? So I think it's a great report and obviously
00:22:57
Speaker
very long overdue, very fascinating to read it, both in terms of my own perspective as a leader who is deaf, but also thinking more widely across the sector. So what I did find very interesting, and this chimes with some of what we've been told by the young deaf people that we work with. So the focus of our strategy is around early years, but also transitions and independence. So we work with young people.
00:23:25
Speaker
and help them to be ready for the world of work. So what the report says is that the vast majority of what they define as out disabled leaders in society are actually associated with disability-focused charities or disabled people's organisations. And then they go on to say,
00:23:45
Speaker
As part of this research, we tried to identify disabled leaders in civil society who were not associated with disability work and we struggled. So I think that really says it all. And it says two things. It's about how reluctant people are who have disabilities to come out with it because they're worried that it's going to impact on their ability to apply for leadership roles within the sector, but also
00:24:14
Speaker
impact on the way in which they're seen and they get cast into a disability organisation. So speaking from my own experience, I mean obviously I chose to work for the National Deaf Children's Society because it's a cause I believe in passionately and having grown up as a deaf child I absolutely get what it is we're trying to do.
00:24:39
Speaker
So I think that's fine if disabled people want to be in disability organisation. What it's not okay about is if they then can't go beyond that, if that's something that they wish to do.
00:24:52
Speaker
And that's, I think, why the challenge is for Akivo and for the voluntary sector generally. How do we stop people seeing running a disability organisation as something which is completely distinct and different as opposed to running any organisation? Because the skills that you learn as a leader running an organisation for disabled people or a disability organisation are the same skills that you need to run any form of organisation.
Susan's Journey and Leadership Reflections
00:25:22
Speaker
That's the message I think we need to get across. Yes, you described to me as we were chatting earlier, Susan, that you identify yourself as a leader first and foremost, who just happens to be deaf. And I think the distinction that you made there is really important, that it was your active choice to get involved with the National Deaf Children's Society, because you felt really strongly connected to that cause.
00:25:47
Speaker
but that was your choice and somebody else might want to choose differently but actually they are unable to because the opportunities don't exist or indeed they are pigeonholed or as you said typecast into being just seen from one dimension or one perspective.
00:26:05
Speaker
So what do you think leaders in the sector and indeed any listeners of this podcast who may not be aware of some of these issues, what do people need to consider in building more disability inclusive approaches in their organisations? And are there any recommendations in the report that really stand out to you in this context? Well, I think there are all sorts of aspects in it. So the report talks about the need for data
00:26:32
Speaker
So it was actually very difficult to find out who the disabled people are in the sector. So that was one thing that was clearly needed.
00:26:44
Speaker
We also need to try and encourage people to disclose the fact that they have a disability. And as I said earlier, we found that young deaf people are very reluctant when they're applying for their first job to say that they're deaf because they're really worried about the impact that they will have on even getting an interview.
00:27:03
Speaker
So you can understand if that sort of prevalent culture exists that people are not going to come forward and say that they have any form of disability. So we need to get over that. We need to make sure that organisations are disability aware, are deaf aware, know what that means in practice, what they have to do. So people do think about sometimes disability about being about ramps and
00:27:32
Speaker
wheelchairs, but it's far, far broader than that. So obviously it's so important that we provide awareness training for the sector. So we really expand what we mean by diversity and inclusion training to incorporate disability. And then we need disabled leaders to be as visible as possible so that
00:27:57
Speaker
young disabled people going into the sector see those of us that are heading up our organisation to the people that potentially could be role models. So the whole thing around mentoring, I think there's a lot more that we can do across the sector to support young disabled people coming up through the ranks.
00:28:16
Speaker
Absolutely. And indeed, perhaps more wider adoption of the social model of disability that I know the report talks to as well. And for listeners who are not aware of this, this social model essentially says that it is society's structures and systems that put obstacles in the way of disabled people from fully participating in society and it is not their physical impairment or condition that is the challenge.
00:28:43
Speaker
Yes, I think that I sort of live and breathe the social model of disability. So yes, for me, I sort of take that for granted. And that's very much the way the National Deaf Children's Society operates. So yeah, I think that's absolutely crucial to ensure that that's sort of embedded in the way in which we all work.
00:28:59
Speaker
Yes. So Susan, I'd love to hear a bit more about your own personal story and personal journey, if you like, with the National Deaf Children's Society, you joined back in 1992. And since then, you've overseen really tremendous income growth from I believe it was 1 million back in 92 to about 24 million pounds in 2019.
00:29:23
Speaker
So can you talk to how perhaps both the organization and yourself as a leader has evolved over these past nearly three decades? Yes. So when I joined the National Deaf Children's Society, I came from a background in service delivery and policy and campaigning. I'd actually worked at the Royal National Institute for the Deaf before that. And prior to that, I was actually a lecturer in deaf education
00:29:52
Speaker
So my background had been in service delivery, policy and campaigning, but I also did a lot of fundraising in my previous role. And I think that was all very fortunate because all of that experience meant that when I applied for the role at the National Deaf Children's Society, I had elements of what was required for at that time was a much smaller organization. But I think I was also fortunate because it was a time when
00:30:22
Speaker
the trustee board was starting to think about the way in which they wanted the organization to be represented. And I'm sure having the lived experience of being deaf didn't hurt. And I think I probably brought a lot of passion for the cause and a real understanding of what it was that needed to be done. And because I had that fundraising experience, I really wanted to grow the organization.
00:30:50
Speaker
And so what's so important about growing an organization is not about the income. It's about the range of services that you can provide as a result. When I started, we were very dependent on legacy income. I think that made up the bulk of that million pounds. We had one fundraiser who was doing trust and statutory fundraising. And I persuaded the trustee board to invest in a director of fundraising.
00:31:17
Speaker
And I was very fortunate in managing to recruit a very talented guy who then became our director of fundraising. And we invested in fundraising because we believed that that was the only way that the organization would develop its range of services. So the first thing we got, the lottery funding for a helpline and then for a network of family officers. And then it went from there and
00:31:48
Speaker
The other thing, really, really important thing to stress as well is that as the organization grew and became more complex, we also looked at our governance structures. So you have to grow your infrastructure as you grow your organization.
00:32:06
Speaker
You can't be left with the same infrastructure as an organisation grows as when you were a much smaller organisation. So our governance has gone through quite a period of change since the time that I started. So our chair and vice chair are parents of deaf children.
00:32:27
Speaker
And the majority of trustees are parents of deaf children, but they are recruited for the skills and experience that they can bring to govern what is now a complex organization with an international wing. So in terms of the growth of the organization, we tried to grow our services, grow our campaigning. So and it's yes, it's very proudly an organization which provides services, but also campaigns for change. And our governance has reflected
00:32:56
Speaker
the increasing complexity of the charity. I think there's a tendency in the sector to focus growth solely around income or certainly see it in terms of income. And you're so right that the focus needs to be actually on impact and how do you create the structures for that impact to essentially grow and be sustainable in the longer term.
00:33:19
Speaker
And Susan, you spoke about governance there and I know that you have a number of governance roles that are actually external to the charity. So you were a former commissioner of the Disability Rights Commission, you are a member of the BBC Appeals Advisory Committee,
00:33:36
Speaker
chair of Groundbreakers, and indeed it is through the Groundbreakers network for female CEOs that you and I first met. So tell us about some of this work that you've been involved with, perhaps starting with Groundbreakers. Yes. So I can't claim the credit for establishing Groundbreakers. It was actually set up by Dorothy Dalton, who's the former CEO of what was Akembo, and Geraldine Peacock, who was the CEO at Guide Dogs for the Blind.
00:34:05
Speaker
So I came in a little bit later, but it is something that I really believe passionately in because it's about developing the leadership, the female leadership for the sector. And I think all of us have that responsibility to bring young people with us. So it's that concept of having a ladder and not drawing it up behind you. You absolutely have to keep it there and enable women, young women to get there.
00:34:35
Speaker
you know, their foot on that rung and bring them up with you. And that's really what Groundbreakers is about. So it's a very informal network, but I think it's that opportunity for people to come together from different areas. That chance conversation has led to some great things. You know, you and I meeting came as a result of Groundbreakers. And what's been fascinating again, of course, is that because we've had to have all our meetings online,
00:35:02
Speaker
We've seen more people attend our sessions than ever before. So the recent one with Polly Neat, who's the CEO of Shelter, fantastic presentation about visible leadership. We had over 100 women joining us from small to large organizations. So it's that impact that we can have of showing young women what's possible and something which I
00:35:28
Speaker
can't overestimate how important I think that is. So I have two daughters myself and I want those opportunities for them in whatever sector that they want to work in.
00:35:38
Speaker
and for the young women that we work with, because there's some brilliant talent out there. And we just need to harness it. You're so right. Representation is absolutely crucial in showing what is possible and what expectations you can have for your own life. And this is coming back to expectations and how you set high aspirations for yourself, for your children, for your organizations.
00:36:06
Speaker
So looking back at your own leadership journey, Susan, what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming CEO? So I think looking back, there are things that I really wish I'd known. So the advice I would give myself if I had my time again was to focus on the big picture, choose my battles,
00:36:30
Speaker
and when in doubt or stuck on something, seek advice from those who are wiser and more knowledgeable than myself. And I think in our sector, we are really fortunate because there are so many people out there that give generously of their time so we can always go to people who have been there and done it and seek that advice. What would you say is the best thing about being the CEO of the National Deaf Children's Society? It's just seeing the impact
00:37:00
Speaker
that we have, seeing the really transformational impact that we have on the lives of deaf children and their families, hearing those stories from children and young people about the difference that being involved in the charity has made to them, seeing our Young People's Advisory Board interview Keir Starmer, seeing a young person trace the Prime Minister into a left at the Conservative Party conference and
00:37:30
Speaker
buttonhole him and ask him some questions about what he was doing to change services for deaf children. Brilliant. Seeing those people be so confident in their ability to challenge politicians and get change, that's definitely been the best thing and is the best thing about being CEO of the National Deaf Children's Study.
00:37:52
Speaker
I love that. And I love what you said earlier in terms of really holding the mission and vision sort of central to everything you do is so vital. So Susan, in closing, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share with listeners? What is one thing that you would like listeners to take away from this conversation? So I think it is always about that overall vision of what you're trying to achieve. I'm not straying from that.
00:38:23
Speaker
So sometimes it is easy to get distracted, whether it's funding opportunities, whether it's something that comes along that seems superfluous and interesting to go off on one track. It's always about coming back to what we're here to do and keeping that sort of center of mind. So with that vision, that focus,
00:38:45
Speaker
I don't think we can go wrong. Absolutely. I think that's our job as CEOs certainly to keep the organisation and everybody on that path in terms of pursuing the real vision, mission and purpose of the organisation. Susan, it's been such a delight speaking with you. Thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you very much indeed for inviting me. It's been a real pleasure.
00:39:10
Speaker
It was so inspiring to chat with the lovely Susan Daniels, Chief Executive of the National Deaf Children's Society. Susan's experiences and comments have really made me reflect on how we as voluntary sector leaders, and as a society more broadly, need to do much, much more to shift the dial and make progress towards being truly disability inclusive. And it starts with listening and challenging the status quo.
00:39:36
Speaker
My next guest is the wonderful Girish Menon who has recently taken the helm at Stuhr Education. Hit that subscribe button now and the episode will automatically download when released.
00:39:48
Speaker
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00:40:14
Speaker
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