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S3.E15: TIME BANDITS (1981) – Childhood Fantasy Series Part 1 | Terry Gilliam’s Darkest Adventure?
28 Plays22 days ago
🕰️✨ Welcome to the first episode in our Childhood Fantasy series — and we’re kicking things off with a true gem: Time Bandits (1981)! Directed by Terry Gilliam and brimming with surreal whimsy, historical hijinks, and dwarves who steal time maps, this cult classic takes us on a wild ride through the space-time continuum. Join us as we revisit the anarchic imagination of childhood, question the role of gods (and parents), and unpack why this offbeat fantasy still resonates decades later. 🎬 In this episode: • Our favorite sequences through history • The terrifying Robin Hood cameo (you know the one) • David Warner’s delightfully evil turn as Evil • Gilliam’s signature style and the Monty Python connection • That ending—yes, that ending—and what it all means 📽️ Whether you grew up with this movie or you’re watching it for the first time, we’re diving deep into the strange, dark, and hilarious world of Time Bandits. 📌 Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more in our Childhood Fantasy series, where we’ll be covering films that shaped our imaginations… and maybe messed us up just a little. 🎧 Check out our friends at Zencastr and get 30% off your first 3 months of Zencastr Pro 👉 https://zen.ai/theaveragereviews 📚 Grab Jessica Lacy’s thrilling new horror novel, The House Beyond the Shore 👉 https://a.co/d/gNSn0Qg 📚 Want more horror? Check out our books on Amazon 👉 https://a.co/d/bUtniBd
#TimeBandits #TerryGilliam #ChildhoodFantasy #80sMovies #CultClassics #MovieReview #FantasyFilm #TheAverageReviews #RetroCinema
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Theme
00:00:32
Speaker
It just ends so abruptly. I gotta work on fading out that. But welcome back to The Average Reviews, where we embrace nostalgia through a full-blown cinematic deep dive.
New Series: Childhood Fantasy Movies
00:00:45
Speaker
And this week we're kicking off something really special, our brand new childhood fantasy series. this season or This is season three, episode 15, and what better place to begin than with Time Bandits, the 1981 cult classic from the mind of Terry Gilliam.
00:01:04
Speaker
This movie has it all.
00:01:08
Speaker
Traveling dwarves, Robin Hood, evil incarnate, and a wardrobe that opens up into pure childhood chaos. It's weird, it's wonderful, it's very British, and it absolutely broke our young brains in the best way.
Guest Introductions and Contributions
00:01:24
Speaker
And speaking of artistic brilliance, we are so excited to welcome back a familiar voice and one hell of a talent, Paul. Hey guys, how you doing? What's up? I'm ah glad to be back. This is one of my favorite movies.
00:01:39
Speaker
go ahead Sorry. Go ahead, Sam. we No, you're good. um We're glad you're here. Glad you love this movie. ah You might remember Paul from the Autopsy of Jane Doe episode we did just ah about a year ago, which was a great episode because it's a great movie. Paul had some great insights all around.
00:01:58
Speaker
Great episode. But... He has also, for many of you tuning in, Jessica has been on previously known as Ivy Tholen. Jessica has been on just about ah she's like our third most frequent person on this podcast.
00:02:17
Speaker
It goes me, Jonathan, and then probably Jessica. And you might be familiar with her fantastic book covers, which are Paul's artwork. Paul has turned in incredible art.
00:02:28
Speaker
And so he did that for Ivy Tholen's books. And now as Jessica Lacey, he is continuing to do incredible work on her book covers, making them pop off the shelves.
00:02:38
Speaker
So yeah, Paul, thank you for being here.
Paul's Artistic Journey: 'Tastes Like Candy'
00:02:41
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me. ah Her new one, which is coming out, what is it, September 9th? Oh, well, not new, but Tastes Like Candy. Yeah.
00:02:54
Speaker
Jessica Lacey and Sourcebooks asked me to do kind of like an update or reimagining of the original Tastes Like Candy cover. And I think it came out pretty great. we we just I just got a copy of it, an advanced copy, what, two, three days ago?
00:03:11
Speaker
And it's it's looking it's looking really nice. So I'm super excited about that. Isn't it so? so It's so cool. Isn't it so satisfying to get it in your hands? yes it's it It's ah unreal. like Because a digital artist, you you're so used to seeing things on the computer screen.
00:03:29
Speaker
um And holding it in your hand is just such a different experience.
00:03:35
Speaker
I can't imagine how great it feels, especially like your cover art is fantastic. The, it is, I'm pretty sure we've talked about it with Jessica. We talked about it with you on the last episode.
00:03:47
Speaker
Like I read tastes like candy because of that cover art. It pops, it works. And then the book is just as good as the cover art. So it is a one, two punch of fantastic.
00:04:00
Speaker
And I can't imagine seeing you kind of taking your original idea for that cover art and then taking your skills and practice over the years and breathing fresh life into it.
00:04:12
Speaker
And it turned out amazing. It looks so good. It looks so good. I appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks, guys. yeah You're welcome. Yeah. he yeah We're glad you're here. All right, Jonathan. Take it away.
00:04:23
Speaker
ah Paul has an eye for bold, creepy beauty, and it's perfect for this kind of conversation.
Exploring 'Time Bandits'
00:04:28
Speaker
And trust us, his insights are just as sharp as his illustrations.
00:04:34
Speaker
So, buckle up, grab your map, and don't trust the supreme being. Let's dive into the chaotic, charming, and slightly traumatizing magic of Time Bandits.
00:04:47
Speaker
Let the fantasy begin.
00:04:52
Speaker
um All right. So I was telling Jonathan before Paul hopped on, ah this was a first time watch for me. I have never seen this movie. Really? don't know.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah. So there are actually a couple on this childhood fantasy series that we're doing that are first time watches for me, which is weird because my mom raised me on fantasy.
00:05:15
Speaker
But I was raised on like the Rankin-Bass Hobbit movie. I'm pretty sure was Rankin-Bass. The animated Hobbit movie from the 70s that is fantastic. It's great film still.
00:05:27
Speaker
I was raised on that. I was raised on The NeverEnding Story. I watched that movie. I swear it was weird. We have that one coming up. So that will that'll be in the series.
00:05:39
Speaker
But ah there were a couple of the childhood fantasy a series that we're doing that I just don't know if
00:05:47
Speaker
my mom wasn't familiar with and so we didn't watch them or she saw them and didn't like them and so we didn't see them um but i can tell you right off the beginning british humor was not something that happened in our house very often it is not something understood by my parents and so we didn't watch a lot of british humor movies so this is probably why this one didn't make a showing in our house.
00:06:16
Speaker
So this was a first watch, so first watch for me. And I do feel not to blame my mom, but I do feel like I was robbed as a child. So but because of my,
00:06:27
Speaker
understand and we will dive into that but because ah why My lack of experience with this movie, I would like to talk last. as Okay. So if one of you wants to take first, because I've seen this movie one time, I didn't get in a second watch because I've been extremely busy with my job, but I didn't get in a second watch. So I want to hear you guys kind of break this down because I don't feel like I can do it proper justice.
00:06:52
Speaker
So I'll kind of give my first watch opinion at the end. So if Paul or Jonathan, one of you want to take it off?
Nostalgia and Personal Experiences
00:07:00
Speaker
Jonathan, you want to first? Yeah, let's do let's go sandwich on it. Yeah.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah. So for me, you know, I grew up on Terry Gilliam, like Monty Python. yeah And then the Flying Circus kind of stuff. Both my parents were big into that.
00:07:16
Speaker
So I had a lot of influence that and I've seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail so many times. Life of Brian, you know, ah that whole British humor thing like that's just that was just there for me growing up. you So when I see more of that stuff over the years, you know, I just it makes me happy.
00:07:33
Speaker
And then then coming back to this is is some some good memories, you know, from my childhood with stuff like this. So it's so weird and it's so out there. um And with this story in particular, it it is crazy mess.
00:07:48
Speaker
You've got this little boy, Kevin, with his menial parents who are just, you can tell looking at them that they're just, bought into the marketing for all of the modern day bougie blah blah blah and don't really pay him much attention. He seems like pretty much a neglected child in a way.
00:08:07
Speaker
um But man, he' you see he's into all this different stuff and his parents just don't care, but he has an imagination on him. And you see him go through this whole weird adventure with these dwarves, these little people who bust in through his wardrobe, scare him, start trying to beat on him like he's a grown man. And he's like, yo, it's just a kid. Like, what are you doing?
00:08:30
Speaker
And they end up going on this wild adventure from time period, place, war, battle, famous characters all throughout different parts of history, only to try find a way for him to get back. And for them, these little little people in their thieving ambitions to be robbers and how bad they are at it.
00:08:49
Speaker
And just it's a wild landscape of adventure. And it it's something that definitely can mess with a kid's head.
Terry Gilliam's Imagination Trilogy
00:08:58
Speaker
with as bizarre as it is in the way it ends it's just it's a really really crazy film yeah the end is something i love it's it's such a and i also grew up on uh monty python movies my parents were huge fans of monty python um and uh the terry gilliam films you know this um of the because i think
00:09:24
Speaker
um Gilliam said that this is like the first of a trilogy of imagination movies like this Brazil and adventures of Baron Munchausen. Yes.
00:09:35
Speaker
I didn't see Brazil. Me neither. Until way later in life, but I do remember renting, uh, this movie and adventures of Baron Munchausen super early in my childhood. and they're just,
00:09:52
Speaker
They're those kind of kids movies from the 80s where like it's mostly silly, but there's those few moments that are just so terrifying for a kid that that's what you remember.
00:10:07
Speaker
And ah I was thinking about that when when i was writing up um my review. I was like, yeah i think I think about this movie probably
Dark Themes in Children's Movies
00:10:19
Speaker
conservatively once every few weeks because I just It just...
00:10:25
Speaker
It scarred me. And it's great. it It's fun. it's It's silly. It's goofy. But there's those little bits, especially like the the last the last act, where it's like it's just so terrifying to a kid um that it's just in your head forever.
00:10:43
Speaker
Evil. Yeah. I can't... Like I said, I didn't get to see this as a kid, but I can imagine like my childlike sensibilities.
00:10:55
Speaker
ah Seeing the dwarf get turned into a pig might have traumatized me a little bit as a kid. There's also just the number of times ah when he like vaporized the dog.
00:11:08
Speaker
He blew up so many people the last bit. Yes. Barnaby, not Barnaby the dog, man. I was like, holy crap. poor pepper.
00:11:19
Speaker
There's also just a ton of dark imagery in this child's story. And um'm actually i' I'm actually kind the I don't have kids yet.
00:11:32
Speaker
i Long story, but i I'm not necessarily opposed to that in kids stuff. You just kind of knowing when to expose your particular child to them because the world's a messed up place. So, but I was watching it and just like that image of the soldiers on spears piled in front of evil. Yep.
00:11:56
Speaker
I was like, that's intense. Yeah. That was intense. Yeah. But this story, I will say, i need... This was a one-time watch for me, a first-time watch.
00:12:08
Speaker
I'll watch it again someday. i I do think the story on my first watch is definitely a kid's story. Yes. ah It's very much... If I had seen this at 10, 11, 12...
00:12:22
Speaker
ten eleven twelve I totally would have a different perspective on this film than I do today. And that is not the fault of the film because I think that was kind of the point of the film.
00:12:36
Speaker
It was for kids. It's a kid's movie. But the it's got enough of that mature element in it to keep adults engaged as well. I just think it kind of affected how I view it now.
00:12:51
Speaker
But i do like I wasn't expecting the ending to get quite as deep as it does. Yeah, I was kind of like I kind of expected the like, hey, all the people we met along the way come to help us at the end.
00:13:09
Speaker
That's a typical like that's a trope of childhood fantasy. We meet all these characters and they help us in the final battle. And if you ever read a Redwall book, have that same plot.
00:13:22
Speaker
But the I don't think I was expecting the conversation about evil and free will and all of that. I was taken aback by that.
00:13:34
Speaker
I was like, wow. That's pretty deep, pretty advanced. it it It was good stuff. But this story of the kid kind of in the wardrobe, getting sucked into this other universe, it's time travel.
00:13:49
Speaker
It was fascinating. It's unique. I've never seen anything quite like time-traveling dwarves who worked in the landscaping department of God yeah creating the universe.
00:14:03
Speaker
like It's insane. It's... extremely creative, unique. I've never seen anything like it, even in the childhood fantasy. This is nothing like never ending story.
00:14:15
Speaker
You know, this is all, this is very different. So I gotta give it immense credit on that alone. So are we ready for scores?
00:14:27
Speaker
Well, I do want to say, um, oh yeah I just, I also, two i have two things on that. Um, one, Earlier this week, for some reason, I watched Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure. and And watching this again for the first time in like, what, 20, 30 years, I was like, wait a minute.
00:14:47
Speaker
Because they they both movies, they both go to, ah I have it right here, hold on. They both go and see Napoleon first, right?
00:14:58
Speaker
Oh. um Bill and Ted, they go to the Wild West next, but this one, they go to... Where do they go here? To Greece? Is this one Greece next?
00:15:08
Speaker
I think it's... Or Robin Hood. You're right, it's Middle Ages. Yep, yep. Middle Ages, which Bill and Ted do, what, fourth? One, two, three, fourth. Yeah.
00:15:23
Speaker
And then Ancient Greece, and then Middle Ages. it's It's so weird to me that I never picked up on that, that Bill and Ted was probably an homage to this movie.
00:15:35
Speaker
um Yeah. That's a possibility. A lot of the same beats in terms of where they go and who they talk to. And then um the other thing I wanted to ah mention was that when I was a kid, I was, well, I remember this movie being like a, was this a dream or wasn't it a dream kind of thing?
00:15:56
Speaker
And rewatching it now, it's I feel like it's much clearer that it's it did happen. And when, at the end, when um ah Supreme Being says this was all a test for you know evil,
00:16:13
Speaker
um ah kind of also feel like it's a test for Kevin, too. Because like if there's evil, there's got to be good. And what would be the proxy for good? And I feel like Kevin would be that...
00:16:28
Speaker
that ah the person being tested um in in that in that way. It's it's a <unk>s interesting to me. It's all part of God's plan. How deep it is, yeah.
00:16:40
Speaker
how How much deeper I see it now than I did when I was a kid. Yeah, for sure. No, I like that. that That raises some good points. ah i So I watched this movie. I didn't have time enough time to watch it again, so I watched a couple YouTube videos.
00:16:56
Speaker
But there was those great sources, YouTube. um they hey A couple people, apparently there was a theory for a while that Kevin died.
00:17:07
Speaker
And this was a that like the fire happened. And he died in the fire. And this was kind of like his trip through the afterlife.
00:17:19
Speaker
And then he was returned. Wow. So apparently that theory was circulating online fine as well. had a different one. That is like, there are a couple of ways you can, there are a couple of ways you can, you have a different one.
00:17:34
Speaker
So i it it doesn't really apply, I don't think, so much in this one in this way. But like before it's been a while since I'd watched the movie. So I kind of forgot about how it ended. I just remember their you know him not having his parents at the end.
00:17:48
Speaker
So before I watched the end and what actually happens, my theory for a minute there was that the Kevin is a sleepwalker. Hence why his parents have all the plastic on everything so he ruin the furniture, not just because it was a popular thing at the time, but maybe Kevin has like this disorder and maybe messes up the place and stuff. And when you see him with the torch and the map for it and to burn it and then evil in that smoldering piece, from it there, I thought that maybe he was sleepwalking, caught something on fire, which caused the house to burn down and losing his parents.
00:18:21
Speaker
But then I watched the end, i was like, nope, that's not what happened at all. Damn. I do. I do think the, like the idea of him dying in the air, I think that's interesting.
00:18:35
Speaker
Uh, but the person I was watching brought it up because you see at the end, the parents don't rescue him in the fire. They rescue their appliances. Yeah. And so there's there's a couple different ways there. There, uh, why, why can't I think of that word?
00:18:53
Speaker
Um, objects being more important than people. What is that called? Materialism. Materialism. Yes. Their materialism takes priority over their own child yeah or he was dead.
00:19:09
Speaker
And so that's why they didn't. But I'm still like in that rush of the fiery, I would still carry a dead child out as opposed to letting them burn. His parents were consumer whores. That's all it is.
00:19:19
Speaker
His parents were consumer whores. no Oh, absolutely. From the beginning. I do think that was an interesting, that is my one complaint with the story. So watching it as an adult, I want more so set up.
00:19:35
Speaker
at the beginning. I don't think it's a knock on the direction because there's a lot of setup in the way it's directed from them watching the game show that is about materialism or living as the theme of the show to their total lack of interest in Kevin.
00:19:58
Speaker
and him being just kind of this energetic, enthusiastic kid about learning. There's a lot of setup in his bedroom. It's all very subtle, but I kind of wanted to see more of him battling with wanting his parents' attention and affection.
00:20:17
Speaker
I wanted more of that. I wanted to feel that through the film. i think it's a very subtle line. I wanted more disappointment from him at the beginning. I wanted to see, i never really felt like the dwarves became a stand-in family for him.
00:20:36
Speaker
i never felt that kind of camaraderie. I felt it more with Agamemnon than the dwarves. And then at the end, when he loses his parents, it's I actually think it's a brilliant ending, I love it.
00:20:50
Speaker
But the i wanted to feel that kind of emotional through line a little bit more because my first watch, I didn't pick up on it until quite a ways in that that emotional through line was part of it.
00:21:06
Speaker
I kind of just thought it was this weird abstract journey. you know I just thought it was an abstract tale through time. and then yeah i think it was once he gets to agamemnon that i'm starting to be like oh he's looking to be noticed he's looking for the family who wants him and prioritizes him and so it took me too long to get there i think so that is that is my only major knock on the story outside of that it's wildly creative and unique so for my score i'm a four on the story
00:21:44
Speaker
Okay, alright. I'm at a five. This is so outlandish for me as a child, and I still love it, how outlandish it is now. Yes, five. Yeah, I also gave it a five, mostly because ah it destroyed my little child brain, and I just, it's still fun.
00:22:04
Speaker
Even that, it's Terry Gilliam Dark, right? Yeah. It's just what he does, but it's also funny. it's whimsical.
00:22:16
Speaker
It has like some weirdly historically accurate stuff in it, even though like, you know, ah ancient Greece was represented but by Morocco. Like it's, ah it's ah it's, it's just, a I thought it was a very fun, fun story.
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah. nick Yes. All right. So on, on to the next category, which is our character arc. so main character here is Kevin.
00:22:44
Speaker
Yeah. it's It's brutal because man it's it's hard with this because it's as as great of a movie as it is, as it is um there's there's not really much in the way of growth you know in in any way, really. like Kevin maybe is a little more forward through it towards the end you know before coming back to reality.
00:23:05
Speaker
and it It feels like he just got kind of dumped on really. you know you know he's He's stuck with nothing at the end. like There's his reward from the Supreme Being you know and just as part of this test.
00:23:22
Speaker
And he now kid's messed up because he has no parents. He's been through this wild situation. He's got pictures, but nobody will believe that it's anything real. you know How's he going to explain those? But it, oh my God.
00:23:36
Speaker
there's nothing for Kevin. There's nothing for him. And the, the rest of the crew, the dwarves, they just go back to sucking up and kissing ass.
00:23:48
Speaker
Yeah. i can live god do I, feel like Kevin was along for the ride and literally everyone else was just acting in their nature. Like, like animal, like a, you know, like a Fox is going to be a Fox, a, a,
00:24:03
Speaker
A scorpion is going to be a scorpion. Like all these people were just being them. And there wasn't really any kind of like growth as characters. But I don't. But it's also i don't know if it needed it.
00:24:19
Speaker
don't know. OK.
00:24:23
Speaker
So this is one where actually i i don't know. I might have given it more credit. um I actually thought there was a decent amount of growth here because Kevin kind of begins the film as lonely and ignored.
00:24:38
Speaker
And i felt like he came through this with significantly more confidence, with more confidence at the end than he had at the beginning. It's kind of a...
00:24:52
Speaker
forced coming of age, not where like he slowly grows up, but where he's taken on this adventure where he sees evil incarnate do things that his suburban lifestyle would not allow for. it He's watched i evil impersonate his parents.
00:25:13
Speaker
Like he's seen some wild things and through a, uh,
00:25:20
Speaker
I don't want to use the word blunt because I liked it, but he gains his independence. He's not attached to his parents. So his parents literally are vaporized by evil at the end of the movie.
00:25:36
Speaker
And I can see how that would be blunt, but I also think it is the full circle or the full culmination of Kevin's story. and that he is not tied to the way his parents viewed him and the way his parents treated him, but he is an independent person of them.
00:25:57
Speaker
And it that strangely worked for me. So he's watched this destructive power of evil and evil literally takes his parents.
00:26:09
Speaker
And even though it's kind of a blunt ending, He's free. like He is independent now. And so I don't know that it is a perfect arc for me.
00:26:22
Speaker
i don't I'm not even sure i would call it great because it's not super clearly defined. Right. Because the bandits kind of remain the same the entire movie. therere hi I found them on my first watch little more than plot device and humor.
00:26:43
Speaker
I couldn't tell you who's who on the first watch. I don't know which which bandit is which bandit. I couldn't tell you what significance they hold. Evil is unchanged. Evil remains the same. But Kevin has just a little bit of arc here from the beginning being super subjective to gaining his independence throughout.
00:27:07
Speaker
So I won't sing its praises as the most transformative character arc that we've seen but i did actually that is one of the elements that stood out was him being free kind of at the end and actually thinking in a strangely optimistic way his parents sucked yeah um yeah They weren't good parents. I'm going to say that.
00:27:36
Speaker
And I actually at the end was like, maybe this kid can grow now. Maybe he can find family. And so while he didn't find it in the movie necessarily, I did feel that growth through from beginning to end.
00:27:54
Speaker
Okay. I will agree. Yeah, he he did seem a he did seem more confident. umll agree I'll agree to that, for sure. um I mean, because we see him say and he stands up to evil and distracts evil, yeah the minions of evil, so that the dwarves can get away.
00:28:15
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. Okay. So i I fell for him towards the end where I did not. I'll be honest. I did not towards the beginning. i I wanted more that at the beginning to sympathize with him.
00:28:28
Speaker
And it didn't really click until later. But yeah. Yeah.
00:28:37
Speaker
So we ready for scores on that one? Sure. Let's kick it. I'm a three. I'm a three. I'm a two. I think it's good. Wow. Okay.
00:28:48
Speaker
I just don't like how he just got left hanging with nothing with his parents blowing up and then him just being like, okay, just kind of looking at around mom, dad, like where's the panic, here's whatever's going on. What's going to happen to him now?
00:28:59
Speaker
Sean Connery, the fireman is not going to come back for him. Right. Um, the producer, I do, I saw a thing where the producer said, they was like, no, this is way too dark an ending. And they did a test screening.
00:29:12
Speaker
Um, And one of the children or a few of the children, they asked him what their favorite part was. And they're like, when the parents blew up and the producer was like, okay, fine, we'll leave it in.
00:29:25
Speaker
kids yu I saw that same thing. one of the youtube videos One of the YouTube videos i was taught I was watching talked about that. Like Terry fought to keep it because the kids in the test screening resonated with that scene.
00:29:38
Speaker
Right. And the YouTube commentator was like, I hate to know what that meant for the parents of those children. Yeah. All right. The music and sound design for this film, if my research is correct, the score was composed by Mike Moran with some contributions from George Harrison from the Beatles.
00:30:04
Speaker
Yeah. So yeah, he was one of the credit song ending credit song is very memorable. yeah Very awesome. Gotta love that one. He produced this.
00:30:15
Speaker
This is actually the second Terry Gilliam production of his. Yeah, it produced a previous one. I don't remember what it was. Yeah. Life of my brain is right.
00:30:26
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. Handmade films. ah Handmade films produced Life of Brian. And then this. And Gilliam wanted it just to be score.
00:30:38
Speaker
He didn't want songs in it because he he, he, I think he wanted, he felt it cheapened it. And then Harrison was like, do I need to remind you that I'm the reason these two movies got made?
00:30:51
Speaker
So, and he's like, okay, fine. You can, you can put your song at the end over the credits. How about that? Yeah. I think that's a fair trade.
00:31:02
Speaker
uh we'll talk about the getting this movie made because that was actually one of the things that I found very interesting about this film was some of the history behind it uh this is one guys is it like the music did not stand out for me on first watch so if you have something Jonathan hop on Well, it's not so much about the music, considering this is a movie for kids. there's It's all about more so the sound design in this film, yeah the effects of everything, a lot of clash and blast that shocks the senses that really kind of would keep a kid focused, that would keep their attention through all of the action and everything.
00:31:41
Speaker
you know And it just it draws so much attention to what you're seeing that gives a lot more more depth with all of that. so Yeah, there's not really much really say on the music aside from the like the awesome contributions by George Harrison, which is super sweet.
00:31:59
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. it's it The music is very – the score is very understated, and I believe – I feel like the sound design, the the the sound effects, the explosions, the though sound that those like longhorn creatures at the end of the movie the sound that they make that was like more than half of why those things gave me nightmares was the sound that they made i also like though that's a very good point
00:32:34
Speaker
I like when Evil, though, when he's doing his circus thing, where you see the thing come out the top of his head with the blade, and it's got the circus music playing, the carnival thing.
00:32:45
Speaker
And it kind of also made that kind of made me think, though, that that maybe was an inspiration from Tim Burton, in a way, with Beetlejuice. had to be. with Had to be. Yeah, right? So yeah just the music from that part, too, also just fun in the weird moment, the stress that they're all going through trying to beat Evil at the end. It's Mm-hmm.
00:33:07
Speaker
Yeah, the sound effects the sound effects do stand out more than any of the songs for me. I couldn't tell you If you played the score for me right now, I would not remember that it was from the movie I just watched.
00:33:20
Speaker
And that's not not to knock it. just like It's not Jaws. you know as To use the Jaws comparison, which is frequently the number five comparison. But ah the sound effects were really good.
00:33:35
Speaker
I do like...
00:33:38
Speaker
i do like a lot of even this movie does a lot of things with scale with whether it is floor level angles to make it look like something is extremely tall to also the sound effects of making things sound extremely large or extremely small i do think they did a great job of orchestrating the sound effects to make the worlds that we're visiting seem more real so i do appreciate that element of it i thought they did an excellent job with that i i was a four on sound design okay but yeah i'm same right there same four mostly because of sound effects sound effects really carried that category hell yeah that that is for sure
00:34:31
Speaker
ah The song George Harrison song is that called dream away? Does that sound? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. ah The editing and special effects. This is ah a highlight of the film for me. So Jonathan, you want to take that away?
00:34:47
Speaker
Dude, special effects. There's so much practical work as well as other like new stuff that was like coming out more new for effects in the eighties. Um, but they still kind of like kept some of that Monty Python flying circus-esque kind of element to some art stuff in there, which I thought was cool.
00:35:05
Speaker
um Special effects though, man, like though like at the end when Kevin's parents blow up, it's not the explosions themselves, but as you get that overhead shot with him walking up, it looks like the two piles of his parents, it looks like the smoke is going in reverse instead going up. And I was like, that's a trip, dude. Like, holy cow, you know?
00:35:25
Speaker
and i don't know I don't know how many people actually noticed that, but man, that caught eye at the end. I was like, that's pretty rad. But we get a multitude of other cool stuff aside from the blast work. um You know, once you see like the one guy the that's in the like after the Kevin and the Dwarves bust a dude and his wife out in the water off the boat, he's I can cough.
00:35:45
Speaker
And then you see everything kind of flare up and do its thing is really cool. I'll stick. so like The creatures when they're like popping out of the stairway when they're trying to escape evil, chasing them and everything.
00:35:57
Speaker
yeah know There's a lot of weird like small stuff like that. There's just a lot of details to all of the different effects in there. like just I like like the opening title sequence, though.
00:36:08
Speaker
I really like because that was really cool and artistic. was kind of a graphic kind of... It's not like a digital graphic thing kind of almost to it. um Yeah. I'm just going keep rambling on.
00:36:19
Speaker
Go ahead, Paul. Well, Gilliam also did a lot of um like hand-animated stuff for Monty Python. And you could tell like he still he still loves doing that and with the title sequence.
00:36:33
Speaker
um You can tell he still loves to do that like hand-animated aesthetic. And then i just got to say, like i there's not really a category for this, so going to throw it in here, but the costume design is just so amazingly good in this movie.
00:36:52
Speaker
um the I'm um' watching it on the TV behind me right now. But the Minotaur is amazing. like The henchmen with their plastic suits, it's very like otherworldly, futuristic. like he Gilliam reuses that in 12 Monkeys.
00:37:11
Speaker
When they go back to the future, or in the future parts of 12 monkeys, they're all wearing similar like plastic-y outfits to of these henchmen, and it's just oh yeah so good. They're garbage bag suits.
00:37:28
Speaker
Yeah, garbage bag. It just it feels otherworldly, and it's it's awesome. ah What else do I have? Oh, the actual special effects part, the miniatures, the miniature of the Fortress of of Absolute Darkness is so awesome when they do the pan up and it just goes on forever and ever and ever.
00:37:48
Speaker
And then they go in and there's the maze. And then the cages are cool, like over the bottomless pit. um i His attention to detail for visuals is, I believe, unmatched in the 80s by far.
00:38:04
Speaker
Yep. um I'm glad you brought up a couple that like the use of miniatures is something I love. I loved seeing it in this movie, especially the scene you're talking about.
00:38:19
Speaker
ah I think it's a lost art. I would honestly love to see more movies today use miniatures instead of CGI and the crap out of stuff. Like it looks so good. It looks so good.
00:38:32
Speaker
ah My favorite scene, and I'm not even sure it's like a special effects genius scene, but I love the sequence of the giant with the pirate ship on its head.
00:38:46
Speaker
hey Oh yeah. I think it is. It is edited. and cut brilliantly. I think it is so cool, the entire thing from him like shifting his head and then we cut to the inside of the boat where they're like hanging at extreme angles.
00:39:06
Speaker
It's so good. And then as he's walking towards the beach and you see inside the little house on the beach, the whole thing is just so cool. And this movie gave me multiple points where I felt not quite to the weird melting extreme, but I got like Salvador Dali painting land like weird landscapes and just this dreamlike quality to everything that I loved. I loved the glass barrier that breaks.
00:39:40
Speaker
yes Yeah. Yeah. So simple. Yeah. So simple, so well done. i That's actually one of the... height I've said many times on this show, I have a weird sense of humor.
00:39:53
Speaker
British humor is not up my alley. I don't often find it funny. I don't. But when they're pressed up against the glass, I found that scene funny.
00:40:04
Speaker
I thought that scene was pretty funny. I don't know. I have a dumb sense of humor. ah But that scene I thought was pretty funny. so i think the effects, the editing as well.
00:40:17
Speaker
There's a lot of... The the cuts aren't perfect, but they're very good. And you see... Well, in my research, I was reading about, like, this is tiny budget.
00:40:31
Speaker
Yeah, five mil. Yeah, this was a tiny budget film and it does not watch even for 1981. It does not watch like a tiny budget film.
00:40:43
Speaker
It looks like they had big budget to pull these effects off and they did not. So and that's not they did not pull off the effects. They did not have the budget because as it looks like a larger budget film.
00:40:58
Speaker
I watched crawl recently. Love that movie. do You guys remember that movie? Yeah. Yeah, it's there. There's a 4K release coming out pretty soon, but I watched that for the first time recently.
00:41:10
Speaker
And the effects in this movie are on par or better than what's happening in crawl. So I got to give this movie a ton of credit. I don't think it's perfect, but there's awesome.
00:41:26
Speaker
There's awesome forced perspective. There's awesome paintings, awesome miniatures. the The effects in this movie were tangible.
00:41:38
Speaker
Even, i don't know, i don't think there was any like animated explosions or anything like that. I think it was all quick cuts to effects explosions.
00:41:50
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, and that is something. Yeah. Yeah. It's a lost art. i It is. It's so cool. One the part though that does bother me though was when the Cal school creep minions are chasing them through evil's lair and you have that one that shoots the fireball and it looks like a rocket going down a line at them.
00:42:15
Speaker
And then he shoots the second one that kind of just shoots free form towards the ground. And then you see them kind of like run out as one explodes in front of them instead of waiting for it to explode first, then run. That was kind rough.
00:42:27
Speaker
That part I say was kind of cheap on the effect for me. When I watched that part, i was like the the only thing I was really thinking of was like, oh my god, and they just blew something right next to a kid. I hope that wasn't... I hope that was an effect and not like they really did blew up something right next to a kid.
00:42:41
Speaker
ye The legality of injuring a kid with an explosion on set. It looks like they walk right into it as an escape.
00:42:51
Speaker
Twilight Zone did way worse. That's dark. Sorry. That's dark.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yikes. i i I'm a four because kind of like Jonathan said, they're not perfect. there You can see a lot of how the effects were done or accomplished.
00:43:12
Speaker
That does not diminish the awesomeness of seeing, for lack of better term, practical magic on screen using physical objects to create the illusion.
00:43:27
Speaker
It's awesome.
00:43:32
Speaker
One last thing, the evil's finger guns, the the one pop, the two pops. Yep. I was like, that's pretty fucking cool, man. like yeah I was like, man, I thought about that so many times i was a kid.
00:43:43
Speaker
But with all of that said, I'm a four. I'm a five. I'm a five. i the the The effects, like, I mean, the explosions aside, the if the the miniatures, the matte painting, the forced perspective,
00:44:01
Speaker
um the in-camera effects, the costumes alone for me, pushed to a five.
00:44:09
Speaker
That's our set design itself. set is night Oh my God. The inside of the, of fortress of absolute darkness kind of mirroring his toys in his room. Like it's just so good. theyre yeah Did you see there's, there's giant, uh, like stone Legos.
00:44:29
Speaker
scattered in the set there's the chess board up on the wall there's like you you know the the cowboys representing his little cowboy toy cowboys like it's just it was so good it's just something that you don't see anymore um in set design uh nowadays i just i loved it you know what we went into set design in that category and that takes me up to a five because i did I brought it up and then you hammered in exactly like seeing in the beginning, the Lego spread out on the floor and then seeing that at the end, kind of it's one of those things that gave me like it was the magic of childhood fantasy movies is that this is all kind of playing out as if they were toys in his room.
00:45:22
Speaker
Mm hmm. playing It's like that to me is just, I don't know. I don't, I don't know if it's poetic. I don't know if it's brilliant, yeah but I loved it. I thought that was such a nice touch of having the sets transform into his toys that, yeah, I'm going to go ahead.
00:45:42
Speaker
I I'm going to adjust. I'm going to count that in here and going to bring it up to five, the set design costumes, all that going up to five on that one. That's all right. That's fair.
00:45:54
Speaker
but then then we can jump to script yeah yeah script so it was written by ter terry gilliam who from what i saw on youtube was kind of desperate to get something written so that's one of the interesting things about the behind the scenes of this film
00:46:18
Speaker
ah Yeah, he I mean, he he co-wrote it with Michael Palin, which was who is also monty Python. um And then, yeah, I saw that he was trying to do Brazil first, but he couldn't get get that off the ground. So he he wanted to do a family film.
00:46:36
Speaker
And that turned out to be this movie.
00:46:43
Speaker
I like the script on this one. yeah there's There's so much dialogue and it's smart. it's It's punchy in some parts. It's playful, but it's something that but a lot of it's stuff that even kids could get and parents like.
00:46:55
Speaker
um God, I mean, like, just just the dialogue just between all the different characters is insane. And God himself at the end, the supreme being man, just the way his dialogue is about everything and testing and this carefree attitude and not really worried about anything.
00:47:13
Speaker
It's pretty cool. I don't know. I'm not really speaking well about script. But don't know. This is kind my thought there. Whatever. Paul? No, you're totally right. He came off as like, he has a grander plan where it's it's he's not sweating the small things because there's a much larger universe for him to care about uh yeah i agree the the dialogue was was funny um which but that's expected you know because again monty python ah was just so biting so perfect um i thought the pacing was good i thought the exposition was for a kids movie it's
00:47:53
Speaker
clear enough for a kid to understand, but it doesn't like beat you over the head with it. Uh, that's important. I thought it was very strong, strong script. Yeah. So for me, this, this is an issue guys that like,
00:48:10
Speaker
British humor doesn't resonate with me. ah I've seen Monty Python. I don't think I laughed at Monty Python, like maybe twice, maybe twice in the whole film.
00:48:22
Speaker
And i I hate saying that because Even though I don't find it funny, I still enjoy the film itself. ah And that's that's kind of what I felt with this film was like three or four of the jokes landed for me, even though I could tell like, oh, this is humor.
00:48:40
Speaker
And this is where... I think if I had multiple watches of this film under my belt, I would pick up on more of the humor. It would be funnier than it is the first time.
00:48:54
Speaker
I also think a lot of this humor is very kid-oriented. Like, evil's rant about worms...
00:49:04
Speaker
I'm not knocking the rant about worms. I just thought it was like, that's something a kid would think is hilarious is is what I got watching it. What struck me the most, and I mentioned this earlier in the story,
00:49:20
Speaker
was I did not expect the supreme being to show up and talk about free will and why evil exists. Like that kind of blew my mind because I think that's something very heavy and kind of kind of a little deep for kids to understand.
00:49:40
Speaker
But I don't think it's something that should have been left out. I think that's something like this was kind of in the age where a kid's movie was supplemented by conversations with parents after like hey let's watch that and then talk about what it what it was saying maybe and so i kind of i kind of appreciated that kind of heavy discussion in this film but for me i was struggling on first watch with necessarily why things were happening early on and where it was going
00:50:17
Speaker
and Whereas as a kid, I'd just be along for the ride. Like, oh, some dimension hopping dwarves grabbed me and I'm going to Greece. I'm just, as an adult, I'm like, why is this happening?
00:50:30
Speaker
they They stole it from the Supreme Being and they're robbing stuff. And it seemed very episodic versus linear, if that makes sense.
00:50:43
Speaker
So this was one that like the humor, It's not my cup of tea, but I did appreciate the deeper message that's kind of being conveyed. And I do, this is where I wanted to go last because first watch, I don't think I picked up enough on it to be fair.
00:51:03
Speaker
i So I'm kind of cushioning my score a little bit on it. But i yeah do think on rewatches, this is one of those scripts that gets better over time. The more you spend with it, the more you pick up on some of those details that make this great.
00:51:23
Speaker
See, there's so many serious moments and when dialogue starts up, it seems like it's serious to a point and then out of nowhere, it it goes comic on you. And I really appreciate that. and I think that's part of the rough part about the British sense of humor maybe for you.
00:51:38
Speaker
Because you get the moments like where evil's doing his little thing and he's talking about how God isn't interested in technology. He cares nothing for the microchip or the Silicon revolution. Look how he spends his time. 43 species of parrots, nipples for men.
00:51:50
Speaker
And then one of his minions pitches in slugs. and he guys again Slugs. He created slugs. They can't hear. They can't speak. They can't operate operate machinery. Are we not in the hands of a lunatic? So it starts out with that serious note and then it just goes all comic and weird on you.
00:52:04
Speaker
Very, yeah. very kid orientented I also love kind of there. There's some depth to that that resonates today. Technology kind of being in the subject of evil And i mean, i I hate social media and all that stuff. And here I am trying to do a podcast and have a presence on Instagram. But like, there's still something to that that I think resonates today.
00:52:30
Speaker
So I think I got to give the script.
00:52:35
Speaker
It was a four. air Sorry, it was a three for me, unfortunately. I think it was good. i think on rewatches, I think it would be great. Oh, that's okay. All right. that's okay me i know I'm at a five, man. and When you got lines like Supreme being saying, I should do something very extroverted and vengeful to you.
00:52:53
Speaker
Honestly, I'm too tired. So I think I'll transfer you down to the growth department, brackens, more shrubs, that sort of thing with a 19% cut in salary back to you at the beginning of time. You know, so many like fun lines like that, even though he's trying to be serious. God, love that shit, man.
00:53:06
Speaker
are yeah i think I think it's funnier when you say it. Yeah.
00:53:12
Speaker
I gave it a four. the The one point off for me was um early on, like the first act, it's kind of rough ah in that there's no no real catalyst or like the the focus of their journey changes.
00:53:33
Speaker
um Yeah. yeah And that's that's the only reason I gave it ah a four instead of a five. Because the dialogue is so good. But yeah, it's it's um it's missing that it's missing the the catalyst early on in the story for me.
00:53:51
Speaker
I think that's fair. I think that is a better, you said it better than what I did. was like I was missing that kind of the at the beginning. That's why are we on this journey? like We haven't watched Neverending Story yet, but but we will. But he gets bullied and retreats to the attic with a book. And that's kind of what sets his journey off.
00:54:14
Speaker
He's sent to his room and dwarves pop out of his closet. And like, I don't know. I was missing. Shenanigans. But yeah.
00:54:24
Speaker
So on to the acting. i agree Yeah. Onto the acting, this is actually ah fantastic cast. So take it away. This cast is awesome.
00:54:35
Speaker
It's it's's loaded up for for the time. Sean Connery, Shelley Duvall, John Cleese, Michael Palin, Ian Holm, Peter Vaughn even, who is like one of the maesters in Game of Thrones, you know, so many other people. And David Werner, who's played so many antagonistic roles in film, ah site as well as like television.
00:54:56
Speaker
there's in David Rappaport was pretty popular throughout the 70s and 80s as an actor when it comes to like little people. The rest of the the the crew, um i i i can recall them in other movies, but nothing major.
00:55:12
Speaker
But otherwise, just a very, very well-loaded cast with some awesome talent, you know. So I think that the the delivery from everyone was well executed.
00:55:25
Speaker
i think they played well into the comedic parts of it in conjunction with the dialogue. And aside from just like the slapstick that they had going as well, they really delivered in this, I think.
00:55:38
Speaker
Yeah. I feel like Gilliam is kind of similar to, um what is his name? Can you remember the director's name?
00:55:51
Speaker
How do you name a movie?
00:55:57
Speaker
Fall of the House of Usher.
00:56:02
Speaker
The series or the movie? The series. its um That was Flanagan. Flanagan, sorry. Yeah, Mike Flanagan. where Where he uses, Gillian uses this, like, a small group of people in literally all of his movies.
00:56:17
Speaker
Like the, the um right now, the um the ogre scene is going on and the ogre's wife is, actually, I'm sorry, both of them, the ogre and the ogre's wife are in Brazil, like, which was just a few years later.
00:56:32
Speaker
um But the the things I wanted to talk about for acting for this category is that um I read that Gilliam said he wanted the film from a kid's point of view and um He was afraid that just having a kid wasn't going to sustain the movie.
00:56:54
Speaker
So he surrounded him with ah people of similar height, which would have been the dwarves. And I felt, I thought that was a very smart choice um since he wanted to keep it from that kid's perspective.
00:57:09
Speaker
And then um the other thing that I wrote in my notes is that Sean Connery didn't even try to do a ah Greek accent. He just walked on set and he's like, yep, I'm Sean Connery. And he's like, okay, all right. I'm Scottish Grecian. Yeah, exactly.
00:57:26
Speaker
So what I saw about Sean Connery was that Terry wrote in his script that the person the warrior was supposed to remove their helmet and look like sean connery because they did not believe they had the budget to get right yeah and so sean read the script yeah sean read the script and loved it so much was like i'll do it yeah so i love i love that little bit about it like yeah i'll do it but i'm not going to a greek accent i'll just i'm going to show up with me
00:58:04
Speaker
I read that it was also his um idea to also play a firefighter at the end of the movie. jack onneries I heard that too. I thought that was awesome. i thought so when he showed up doing that though, I did expect some of the other characters to show up.
00:58:20
Speaker
I mean, I don't know how, cause there was 30 seconds left in the movie. Yeah. I expected like, Oh, is like Shelley Duvall going to be the neighbor? No, but I did. I was kind of looking at that.
00:58:33
Speaker
like a Wizard of Oz kind of situation. Yes. yeah Yeah. Everybody was a representation. Right. So Craig Warnock is Kevin. This was his only film from what I saw.
00:58:46
Speaker
He did this and it was actually his brother who auditioned for the role. who But Gilliam with him, like, I'm sure that caused some fights at home.
00:58:58
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And many of the dwarves in the film are Star Wars legends. C-3PO, or not C-3PO, R2-D2 is in here. But we have Sean Conner. Ian Holm watching Bilbo Baggins play
00:59:22
Speaker
Napoleon was a highlight for me. I love Ian Holm. I loved his performance. He really... I was watching this going like, man, he doesn't look that much older than he did in the in Fellowship of the Ring.
00:59:38
Speaker
But then I was like, that was 20 years later and he still didn't look that much older. ah John Cleese's Robin Hood, fantastic.
00:59:50
Speaker
Shelley Duvall just did not have great luck. in this time period between um whatever went on the set between her and why can't i think of his name oh kubrick no kubrick abusing her oh he tortured her kubrick oh really yeah oh yeah kubrick for the shining he tortured her oh yep And then apparently in the scene where she and Robin Hood are tied to the tree or during the Robin Hood sequence, Terry Gilliam jumped off of a platform to show how it should look when the people landed in the in the transom carriage.
01:00:34
Speaker
i But apparently when he was demonstrating it to her, he landed on her and caused a neck injury that she suffered from for a long time after filming. Damn, yikes.
01:00:46
Speaker
He hurt her pretty bad. Yeah, it does suck. But I was surprised to see her in this film because outside of Popeye and The Shining, I'm not familiar with much else of her work, but i thought she was good.
01:01:03
Speaker
i I liked her in this. So and then David Warner as evil is so excellent. He is chewing up the scenery and just having a great time.
01:01:18
Speaker
And he was a standout. I loved his performance.
01:01:23
Speaker
So for the acting, I am a four on acting. Five. ah I'm also five. i do want to I do want to go back to John Cleese with all those dirty, gross, scarred, mutilated bandits.
01:01:40
Speaker
And then it's just John Cleese in a ah perfectly clean, green Robin Hood outfit. I laughed when he showed up as the head of these disgusting bandits.
01:01:51
Speaker
I literally laughed out loud. It was so funny. um And then for me, Ian Holmes will always be Ash from Alien.
01:02:02
Speaker
that That dude scares the shit out of me. cause
01:02:08
Speaker
So intimidating. here ah Five, sorry, five for acting.
01:02:15
Speaker
It's so bad that in Alien Romulus, I don't even connect that that ai whatever that is in that film is Ian Holm.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, agreed. I know it's supposed to be but I watch it and I'm like, it looks like a completely different. I mean, i I guess it's there but that that's an not Ian Holm. No.
01:02:40
Speaker
Hey, all right, Jonathan.
01:02:44
Speaker
Okay, yes. So I guess after that, that takes us on to direction. My favorite topic you score. Yeah, I said five. Oh, I didn't hear it. It was probably my internet cut out.
01:02:55
Speaker
Doesn't look like my signal is great.
01:02:58
Speaker
Get fiber, but fiber sucks here. a Direction. Yeah, go ahead. um So yeah, with direction, um I really suck at this topic.
01:03:12
Speaker
I was getting better it, but then like kind of like, I don't know, I don't talk well about this part. um
01:03:19
Speaker
You know, Paul, don't you go ahead and first? Sure. um i I honestly only have one note that's different than every other time I've talked about Terry Gilliam in this, in that I i said Terry Gilliam's movies are always like a dream that's on the verge of a nightmare.
01:03:34
Speaker
Like, he's just ah such an interesting individual that creates some dark, dark imagery. I love it. I can't get enough.
01:03:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:51
Speaker
So this was from what I saw, this was his second solo directed feature. He's worked with others and this was the second time it was just him.
01:04:04
Speaker
Uh, I do, like we said earlier, his background and animation is definitely there. But what I like is like, he managed to make a movie that looks like a child's story storybook.
01:04:20
Speaker
hmm. It's filled with fantastic imagery. And it's that is part of what makes this movie stand out it's probably the top thing after i first watch the imagery is what stands out in this film more than anything else and unrepeated watches the story will grow on me for sure but that imagery in this is fantastic from dark imposing castles of where evil lives to fantastical settings uh beaches with giants and like it's
01:04:58
Speaker
awesome. He does a great job of making this story kind of exist in a living, breathing world. Even though, like, yeah, we said we can see where the effects are used and could be our trained eye, ah but it looks so good.
01:05:18
Speaker
He creates a believable world and he melds this story together really well. So I give him credit there.
01:05:28
Speaker
I just like the use of the settings, you know, a lot of the places and the camera angles work well.
01:05:36
Speaker
But yeah, don't I just don't i don't know. Well, I agree. That was the one thing. Paul mentioned my favorite shot. I think my favorite shot of the film was using the miniatures of the is it the fortress when it just pans up and we're looking down like a stop motion effect in that.
01:06:01
Speaker
the miniatures because you had the little figures on the bridge. Oh, yeah. See just the stop motion effect of it. So cool. I loved that.
01:06:11
Speaker
That's probably my favorite shot of the film right off the top of my head. I'm a sucker for overhead shots. I love birds off shots. But that was that was a good one. It's just a good looking film.
01:06:24
Speaker
I also enjoyed when the wall just sucks back. at the beginning. Oh, in his room? Yeah. That's when you know, you're like, oh, okay, we're going into a we're getting into an adventure here.
01:06:38
Speaker
Yes, that was a really good really good sequence there.
01:06:45
Speaker
I am at a four on the direction. I kind of feel like towards the end where, like before Kevin wakes up and he's getting all that smoke and carbon dioxide poisoning, maybe that's why his dream gets weirder and weirder and goes into that place.
01:07:00
Speaker
with this whole toy setting surroundings. And I think that's kind of a cool perspective to think of about it with the direction. So that and everything you guys said, four. I gave it a five.
01:07:11
Speaker
I'm a dumb sucker for Terry Gilliam. Can't fault you. Can't fault you. All right. So cultural significance for this one. This was a tough score for me. So go take it away, Jonathan.
01:07:26
Speaker
Yeah, it, I don't know how much impact it really has. It's a cool film. It's one of those films of the eighties that people can reference because it's so bizarre yet so fun, but for everyone.
01:07:41
Speaker
And it really had, I think it twisted a lot of minds for a lot of kids that led to a lot of awesome creations on down the line. Um,
01:07:53
Speaker
you know, just how want to say this, brain work.
01:08:01
Speaker
I think this, like the imagination in this film and others like it in the eighties had a pretty significant impact, but it seems like it's kind of petered out, you know, as you get on past, you know, 2000.
01:08:14
Speaker
you know, and then just things get more like CGI and everything. The loss of the use of like the practical aspect of things that we loved so much as a kid that they don't use now. It kind of kind of takes it down a notch for me in this category, that makes sense.
01:08:32
Speaker
Okay. um For me, in my notes, I have, again, I have the the fact that I think about this movie probably once every two weeks.
01:08:44
Speaker
um even though I haven't seen it in 20 years. um ah so Personally, it's very effective. ah But I guess, you know, the rest of the world, 1981, it was five mil budget. It made 40 million.
01:09:02
Speaker
That's pretty, pretty good. Yeah. um He tried to do a sequel. They almost greenlit a sequel in the mid ninety s unfortunately several of the dwarves had had died at that point so they scrapped the sequel and then now there's an apple tv apple plus show coming out out i don't know if it's out yet it's out remake yeah and even though he's not you know he's not happy with it the fact that they made one and there was a potential sequel like it
01:09:39
Speaker
It's not a flat, it's not ah like ah a one hit wonder or kind of thing. So I honestly, i think it it's it's not a perfect five, but I feel like it's culturally relevant.
01:09:53
Speaker
So I would have to agree. i didn't see this movie growing up, but this was a movie that I knew about it. It's all I've always known about it. I can't remember the first time that I could reference knowing about time bandits. Cause I think I've just like, that's how long I've known about it, whether it was seeing it on the shelf at the library or seeing it on the shelf at Walmart or or hearing people talk about it. I've known about Time Bandits for decades and just haven't watched it.
01:10:27
Speaker
So I definitely think it's in the conversation. It's out there. I did know about the Apple TV remake. I heard it was terrible. i don't know. i think it kind of depends on if you like Taika Waititi or not because he's who remade it.
01:10:45
Speaker
ah I do think it depends on if you're if his humor lines up for you um it was a box office success i 35 million profit i guess is pretty pretty decent but yeah i i do think it's out there i think what i'm seeing says it influenced the princess bride and like we mentioned earlier bill and ted's excellent adventure hmm.
01:11:15
Speaker
So it does have its fingerprints out there, whether you know that it was from this movie or not. I will say this movie was nothing like I imagined it to be.
01:11:28
Speaker
So based on i thought based on the posters and the cover art and what I've seen throughout time, I thought we were going to have a lot more time on a pirate ship than we did.
01:11:39
Speaker
I was kind of excited for that cause I love pirates. hey I, it was definitely different than what I imagined, but I do think it has some cultural significance. So I'm a three on cultural significance.
01:11:54
Speaker
Hey, I'm a three as well. I'm a four. I feel like I'm personally biased, but yeah, I, it's all right. Give it a four.
01:12:06
Speaker
You're allowed to be. That's why our scoring system works like this.
01:12:10
Speaker
Okay. So then our final, how entertained were you at it? Is that right? Yeah, that's where we're at. How entertained were you at a 10 and your final thoughts on the film?
01:12:27
Speaker
Well, I like this movie a lot. It's a lot of fun and it's something I think it would be fun to share with your kids to a certain age. Maybe like if your kids are likely like maybe like around eight years old or something, I'd probably sit them down and watch this with them. Maybe as young as six.
01:12:44
Speaker
I don't know. I'm not sure how much of If I have kids, I'm not sure how much of them I want them to have a broken brain like I do from watching this kind of stuff so early. i watched a lot of stuff that I shouldn't have as a kid. God bless HBO and Cinemax as a kid and USA late at night, you know, just holy cow.
01:13:02
Speaker
Should not say so much stuff, but yeah, right. um But this is a great movie. It's cool. It's people talk about it, you know, it's something I'd be glad to have a discussion with people. And I'm pretty sure if I went to work,
01:13:14
Speaker
Someone, at least a few people in my department would be able to talk about this movie with me. It's awesome. ah But with some of the other small things I pointed out that kind buggy, it's not super high on score, but I do feel like it's a seven for me.
01:13:29
Speaker
And it's something I will watch again eventually. Because like when I watched it today, was like the first time I've watched it in a long time like Paul. you know is so I don't think about it as much, though.
01:13:42
Speaker
Fair enough. um I thought it was funny. I thought it was dark. And most of all, I thought it was beautiful. I gave it a 10. Just, well, it's also very nostalgic for me.
01:13:53
Speaker
And i didn't realize it was going to be um until I watched it again. And I was like, yeah, OK, all right. i'd I'd like to watch this again under the influence because I feel like it would be insane.
01:14:05
Speaker
yeah There you go. Yeah. So for my first time watch, this was, i it's been hard cause I don't think it's this movie's fault. I think it's just the month that I'm living in right now made enjoying things difficult.
01:14:27
Speaker
But so I am kind of harder on this, but I don't, I'm trying not to knock it. I've tried to give it credit where I saw credit was due. And I do think this is one that I'll revisit. I do think this is one that I want to show my kids because I actually want that, that I keep coming back on it. That conversation at the end about free will and evil is something that I have literally outside of this movie read books about.
01:15:00
Speaker
free will and evil and I think it's a very hard to grasp conversation for kids but I also think it's one of those like daddy why do bad things happen like well you gotta have this conversation and I do think this movie is a nice gateway kind of to talk about things like that with kids um So I know I'm going to revisit this. I know I'm probably going to show kids this one day.
01:15:32
Speaker
But for now, I'm sitting at a six. And that is that is, I've tried to preface, I think it's that the month I'm living in and just my first watch. I do think this is a movie that grows on me over time in repeated watches. I think the depth of it will become clearer on repeated viewings.
01:15:54
Speaker
So I'm giving it a six, but I'm thinking it's probably an eight or nine in a couple years. So maybe we'll revisit it then. There's already a movie that we recorded two years ago before Jonathan was on that I think we need to revisit because my opinion has changed.
01:16:11
Speaker
So oh yeah it happens. But yeah, I am a six, which brings my total score. paul do you have your total or you need me to send it to you?
01:16:23
Speaker
I think I'm 45. Yes. i think Yeah. right And I am 32. So you're 32.
01:16:35
Speaker
If I add think correct unless I'm stupid, which I could be I have you at 39, which is decently that I can't add.
01:16:44
Speaker
I missed something somewhere when I was adding up in a rush to submit my score. That's okay. That is rounding from a three star to a four star. So that 39 does sound more accurate. Yeah, I am a 36. So not not crazy off. But together, the average of that rounds to a 40. So four stars out of five. And I feel like that's a pretty appropriate, yeah pretty appropriate summation.
01:17:14
Speaker
of this film i think four stars out of five is well accurate so any last words paul um i i hope everyone goes and enjoys tastes like candy the new book we spent a lot of time on that cover and i love it and um right now i'm working on her next one to be released under source books which is um Mother Deer.
01:17:47
Speaker
therere they're It's going to be retitled to Fatal Yours. I think she's already mentioned that. yeah But I'm working on that one right now, and I'm super psyched about that. So hopefully you guys can see that pretty soon.
01:17:58
Speaker
along with the retitle. Is that a overhaul on cover or completely new cover completely new cover? Yeah. So not an updated like tastes like not an update.
01:18:09
Speaker
Yeah. ah Well, I can't wait to see what that looks like. Yeah. Yeah. I can't wait to get my hands on the new tastes like candy. I'm excited for that. I'm genuinely excited for that.
01:18:22
Speaker
Cool. So I can't wait for that. Jonathan last words on it. Are you ready to read us out? I'm ready to roll.
01:18:30
Speaker
You got the outro pulled up? Okay, I do. So that wraps up our first stop in the childhood fantasy series. And what a time hopping ride.
01:18:41
Speaker
It's been through the chaotic brilliance of time bandits. Huge thanks again to our guest Paul for joining us today. Not only did he bring some great insight, but if you've ever admired the cover of Ivy Tholen's tastes like candy or the updated cover on Jessica's version, then you've already seen his art in action.
01:18:58
Speaker
Absolutely. and Paul's work has helped define, it I don't know if you define the tone of the book, you're a reflection of the tone of the book, of some books that we thoroughly enjoy.
01:19:11
Speaker
And we've been thrilled to have you as part of this conversation. Cool. Thanks for having me, guys. This has been great. So don't forget, this is just the beginning of our childhood fantasy series. We'll be diving into more films that warped, shaped, and enchanted our young minds, whether they were meant to or not.
01:19:31
Speaker
Oh yeah. I'm genuinely excited. We have, uh, oh, I'm brain farting. We have, I know we have never ending story labyrinth and there's one other in there. So,
01:19:48
Speaker
I feel like this movie also influenced Labyrinth. Labyrinth was, what, five years later? oh I feel like Labyrinth owes some thought to this movie as well.
01:20:02
Speaker
so When you watch that. Labyrinth is another first time watch for me, so I Dark crystal. Yeah. Oh, nice. hyper labyrinth I have seen dark crystal. Like, I don't think I've seen that one since I was a child.
01:20:15
Speaker
So oh anyways, until next time, thanks for tuning into the average where the real review happens with your friends.
01:20:28
Speaker
Oh,