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S3.E14: Jennifer’s Body Was NEVER the Problem (We Were!) W/ Jesssica Lacy
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🎬 Jennifer’s Body (2009) — Livestream Review with Special Guest Jessica Lacy (@bloodandlacy) 🔥🩸 Is Jennifer’s Body a misunderstood feminist horror gem? A demonic cult classic? Or both? We’re unpacking it ALL in this livestream episode of The Average Reviews, featuring very special guest horror author and critic Jessica Lacy (@bloodandlacy)! From its blood-soaked satire and Megan Fox’s iconic performance to Diablo Cody’s razor-sharp script, we’re diving deep into what made this movie flop at first — and why it’s now a modern cult obsession. 💬 Join us in the chat as we rate, debate, and resurrect the legend of Jennifer Check. ⸻ 🎧 Check out our friends at Zencastr and get 30% off your first 3 months of Zencastr Pro 👉 https://zen.ai/theaveragereviews 📚 Grab Jessica Lacy’s thrilling new horror novel, The House Beyond the Shore 👉 https://a.co/d/gNSn0Qg 📚 Want more horror? Check out our books on Amazon 👉 https://a.co/d/bUtniBd ⸻ 🗓️ Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and drop your own rating in the comments or live chat! #JennifersBody #HorrorMovies #Livestream #CultClassics #TheAverageReviews #BloodAndLacy #JessicaLacy #MeganFox #FeministHorror
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Transcript
Introduction to the Episode
00:00:31
Speaker
Welcome back average fam to another episode of the average reviews where the real review happens with your friends. I'm Tim and I'm
Film Focus: Jennifer's Body
00:00:40
Speaker
Jonathan. And this week we're sinking our teeth into a film that was criminally misunderstood when it hit theaters, but has since risen from the grave as a cult classic.
00:00:48
Speaker
That's right. Today we're talking about Jennifer's body. When this movie premiered in 2009, the marketing team famously leaned entirely into Megan Fox's sex appeal.
00:01:00
Speaker
I was 19 when it was released, and that's what I remember. They targeted teenage boys, even though the film was written by Diablo Cody, fresh off an Oscar win, and was meant to be a biting feminist horror comedy with fangs.
00:01:16
Speaker
Studio execs didn't seem to understand that this was Heathers meets The Exorcist, not American Pie Possessed Edition. and Because of that disconnect, the film kind of flopped on release, but not forever.
Cult Status and Feminist Themes
00:01:27
Speaker
Not even close. Over the years, Jennifer's body found its people. It grew into this beloved blood-soaked revenge fantasy that's just as sharp with its eyeliner as it is with its themes.
00:01:38
Speaker
And it turns out the people who really got this movie were mostly women.
Guest Introduction: Jessica Lacey
00:01:44
Speaker
Which is exactly why we're so excited to welcome back a familiar voice with a new name, horror author, cultural critic, and unapologetic Jennifer Check Defender, the one and only Jessica Lacey, AKA At Lovin' Lacey.
00:02:00
Speaker
Yes, I'm so excited to be here. I think other than the live stream we did for for Dread Broadcast, this is the first time I'm meet Yes, it is. It is awesome.
00:02:13
Speaker
Yes, I am. you're The reason you're doing this movie is because of me, because I said, you need to watch this. And I don't think Tim listened because it took a year to get here. Well, you were right. I'm really bad at that. You were right to do so.
00:02:26
Speaker
I knew Tim specifically would love this movie. I did. Yes, and i will definitely, definitely get into why I love this movie and I regret waiting so long to see it.
00:02:38
Speaker
So, you know, Jessica's been with us before, but this is her first time joining us since the release under her name of Tastes Like Candy. So we're pumped to have you back.
00:02:49
Speaker
You are the perfect guest for this movie since it was your recommendation. Yes, I am. And it's it's it's a fun one. So, yeah. Yes, yes, it is indeed.
Exploring Themes and Reactions
00:02:59
Speaker
We're going to talk demons, desire, Diablo Cody, and why sometimes the best horror stories are the ones that don't center men at all.
00:03:07
Speaker
So grab your low rise jeans, your best eyeliner, and maybe a bag of salty popcorn because tonight hell is a teenage girl. So I'm going to let Jessica, I want want ah you to kick off the categories. If you don't mind, this was your recommendation. yes I've only seen it the one, the two times.
00:03:30
Speaker
So I can't talk too deeply about it. I can just kind of talk about my initial reactions, but I know you can kind of get what's. Okay. um I just want to make sure I copied them directly off of the thing. So I've got story, plot, character, music. Is that the right order?
00:03:46
Speaker
Yeah. a Story is first. i I'll help you with that. No worries. All right. So my history with Jennifer's body goes all the way back to the beginning. I saw it opening night in theaters. um I was a huge fan of Diablo Cody. I loved Juno.
00:03:59
Speaker
And Jennifer, she had done, she had done she'd written a book as well because she was a stripper before she was a screenwriter. And she wrote a book about that. Oh. Then she did Juno. Then Jennifer's body was her, I want an Oscar. I get to do whatever I want next movie.
00:04:13
Speaker
Because that tends to happen. And she had been a horror fan forever. And this is what came out of it. And I had followed her career. I didn't care anything about any of like the actors in the movie. I didn't care about Megan Fox. i didn't care about, I'm going to say, I solely went because of Diablo Cody and probably three minutes in, i was watching it and I was like, this movie is going to affect me for the rest of my life. um It's one of those movies that felt like it was specifically made just for me And when it bombed, I was extremely upset because I hadn't super been following like the sexy side of it. I had just been reading interviews from Diablo and from Karin Kusama and some of the the cast members.
00:04:54
Speaker
But it was it was really tragic whenever it bombed because I was like, well, none of no we're not going to get more of these now. um So as it started to get more popular online and as it started to grow,
00:05:07
Speaker
It's just gotten really, really excited because people finally understand this movie, love this movie, and we're starting to see things, we're starting to see movies and also books that are inspired by this.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so we're finally getting more of these kind of bubblegum horror type of stories.
Film's Influence and Tropes
00:05:24
Speaker
and yes yes I'm completely unapologetic in the fact that that my my novel Tastes Like Candy is extremely like heavily inspired by Jennifer's body um I'm also reading a book called This Delicious Death which is another one that was like it's supposed to be Jennifer's body plus zombies in the desert like it's it's it's pretty fun um but I specifically look out for things like this and there's certain tropes that I think are getting picked up and put into movies. I can't think of an example right now, but I know every time I see it, I'm like, oh, there's another one.
00:05:56
Speaker
They like to throw random best friends that are, are they like, you see a lot of female characters in horror movies now where they have a best friend and you're like, are they, or are they, or are they kind of like what's going on with Jennifer and Nidhi in this movie?
00:06:10
Speaker
So I think there's little fingerprints of Jennifer's body everywhere. Yeah. I mean, recently ah we talked Fear Street. They definitely, that was definitely a are they, aren't they? And the movie never told us, but I see that.
00:06:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a perfect example of exactly what I'm talking about. And it happened in a lot of places. And I think even something like the original Fear Streets, probably there was a little bit of Jennifer's body in there because those were about actual lesbians that were out.
00:06:37
Speaker
um ah yes ah But it still, it still has that, that those have that bubble gummy kind of quality. And when I say bubblegum, I don't mean like light, fun, frilly. I mean, feminine girly horror that is also really fucking gory and bloody.
00:06:55
Speaker
It's like bubblegum with a razor blade in it. that's That's kind of the genre I'm talking about. and And I think Jennifer's body is probably the the pinnacle of that right now.
00:07:08
Speaker
I don't know that I'm super familiar with the bubble gum razor blade genre, but you are. know there's any like, like the substance is one of them.
00:07:19
Speaker
The substance is very bubble gummy. It's like, it's like, it's like female, but also girly bright colors. There's a focus on makeup. There's a focus on fashion, but then somebody is getting gutted right next to it.
00:07:30
Speaker
And, and, you know, you see these like, uh, slumber party massacre, that could count as bubble gum horror. Okay, I love the first Ginger Snaps Bubblegum Horror. like These things are like there. It's just they don't have a name for them.
00:07:44
Speaker
and i am i like Are you coining Bubblegum Horror? Because i like it. I'm not, but I am. I got it from somewhere. I don't know where I got it from. but the thing the whoever I think it was whoever explained it. It was it was a random YouTube video.
00:07:59
Speaker
If somebody randomly hears this someday and is like, Jessica Lacey's lying. She didn't come up with that. i didn't I don't remember who did. drop it in the comments if it was you i think it was like an old abandoned youtube page it wasn't it wasn't an active like somebody currently making videos gotcha but um they pointed out that torture porn there were like two movies and there was a title for this you know, Saw and Hostel, and then suddenly it was a subgenre with a name sitting over there.
00:08:24
Speaker
Bubblegum Horror has existed for decades, and there's not really a name kind of, there's not really a ah ah nickname for it, for the subgenre. So let's call it Bubblegum. It's either that or Hot Pink Horror. I think Bubblegum is more fun.
00:08:38
Speaker
So that's what I go with. I like Bubblegum. They're both good. They're giving you credit for it.
00:08:48
Speaker
uh there you go smart i i do i like bubblegum jonathan likes hot pink or hot pink cool don't know like shit they're both good and i'm down with bubblegum it's just hot pink horde that still sounds rad you know it doesn't i mean and i definitely that's what you write it is and i am unapologetic about the fact that i love I love the genre.
Genre and Plot Summary
00:09:14
Speaker
You can suck me in, put a little bit of high school drama in there, put a little bit of relationship cliches, whatever.
00:09:21
Speaker
Give me some of that like hot gossip stuff to latch on to because it's fun. It is. It's a blast. um Jennifer's body is a blast to watch. Yes.
00:09:33
Speaker
So let's break down the story and correct me if I miss anything. Hop in on it. ah In Jennifer's body, beloved high school cheerleader Jennifer is We're going to be spoilers. This movie's been out for a long time, so you're going to get the full thing. Okay. Jennifer is sacrificed during a satanic ritual by a struggling indie rock band looking for fame.
00:09:58
Speaker
Instead of dying, she returns possessed, supernaturally beautiful, but dead inside and thirsty for the boys of her town. ah her best friend needy watches these deaths escalate she must face betrayal violence and potentially kill the friend the friend she grew up loving is that that um that summarizes it very well okay i so you went on a lot do you have any comments on the story in particular the story in particular the the
00:10:36
Speaker
overarching am input this is probably can fold into the script as well but the while that is the the you know the the little summary we have two things going on here we have a story about a girl who has essentially been sexually assaulted the the satanic ritual with the stabbing and the the non-murder she's supposed to be a virgin there's a sexual component to it i'm just going to call it sexual assault from here on out um and then there's a sexual component to jennifer's kills too so we're going to go with that um she's she's or demonetized yeah she's she survives sexual assault essentially and she goes on to become a a monster who's doing the exact same thing because the boys that jennifer does this to are not bad guys they're not like assholes that you want to see eaten they're nice guys and like one of them is a grieving football player because his best friend died so we're seeing honestly my favorite scene in the movie but mostly for the music uh
00:11:33
Speaker
and i knew you were going to be all over the soundtrack too oh the soundtrack on it we'll get there wait for that part oh yeah we'll get there anyways you're talking about they're good guys right so you have you have this one one bit of the story that's about jennifer and and her sexual assault and then committing these these other sexual assaults essentially and murder and then you have this other story of these two best friends who are so close and then they hate each other deep down but they also love each other so it's kind of an extremely complicated relationship from the get-go because jennifer's awful to needy even before she becomes a demon um not super bad but she she has a few little backhand comments that that really jennifer thinks she's better than needy and i think needy agrees
00:12:23
Speaker
You get those two stories within the umbrella of there's a girl that's a demon eating boys.
Character Development and Arcs
00:12:30
Speaker
Yes. but me and It should be clear. The comment, it was like, well, I don't like essay movies and It is more in metaphor than in actual depiction yeah what's going on. It's, it's a metaphor for what's happening versus what's actually being shown on screen.
00:12:48
Speaker
This is not a, I spit on your grave or last house on the left. Not all. she's, she stabbed quote unquote to death. So there's no actual sexual assault being shown, but she has to be a virgin. There's a, there's, it just, it, it pings that like,
00:13:05
Speaker
that corner of everything but I would not call this a rape revenge movie in any way shape or form yeah no I agree I don't
00:13:16
Speaker
I don't know how much else to talk about the story i coming at it so I watched it like one and a half times I had it on and in the background today while I'm getting other things done because I had a crazy busy week but uh I watched it Monday night was immediately sucked in i think i watched the unrated version so i did some research and they are apparently two very different versions of the film yes yes i've seen them both okay so which one in your opinion is better the official version i think is better i think that with the exception of the line that got cut that
00:13:57
Speaker
uh uh kyle golliner's character ah looks like lasagna with teeth yeah that's not that's not in the in in the in the theatrical cut um that's the only thing that i missed whenever i was watching it i think it's a little over long and i think it's a little it's not as punchy it's not as like bam bam bam so i do prefer the theatrical cut that that was one of my comments for editing is that's all i have to say is that i think that they cut out the right stuff to make the right movie Well, see, now I need to see the theatrical cut yeah because I didn't have any issues with the unrated.
00:14:29
Speaker
But I was also watching this unrated one going like, there's nothing in here that should be unrated. There's no like this movie for Uh. ah As sexual as it is, there is no nudity.
00:14:44
Speaker
There's nothing. Even the unrated cut. yeah There's nothing. And so that's why I was surprised. I like double checked and I was like, did I watch the unrated or did I watch the regular cut? Because they're like, it didn't strike me that this should be unrated.
00:15:00
Speaker
So yeah I didn't even think the unrated was particularly that gory. But what I recall, it's not an unrated movie in the way that terrifier is an unrated movie.
00:15:12
Speaker
It's an unrated movie in that the cut you watch never went through the MPAA. And from what I recall, there's like, it might be one of those situations where there's a couple of seconds of extra gore, but most of the stuff that's in the unrated version that got cut is dialogue.
00:15:28
Speaker
Okay. yeah Like I said, the lasagna with teeth. that kind of stuff i love that part though man yeah yeah that mom just fucking going off on those stupid ass one of the goth kids like holy i love those kids they were hilarious oh yeah i was dying was dying monopoly on pain yeah they're not they're not in that that they're not in in the movie to that extent yeah the the high school emo kid in me loved that scene so much i should be with you
00:15:56
Speaker
the So from what I saw, there's like a grand total of five minutes of difference between the two, as well as some changes. One of the changes being the beginning, starting with Needy in the asylum.
00:16:15
Speaker
Did originally start there? Or did it? That's what that according to the internet, that's how the unrated one starts. I have no idea because I didn't see the regular one and the internet's full of lies. So I don't know.
00:16:28
Speaker
The original one, it does start. Does it start with the murder? Hold on. I'm rewinding it. I have it up.
00:16:37
Speaker
Well, so my point while you look at hell is it. Hell is a teenage girl is the beginning. And that's just Jennifer sitting in bed chewing on her hair. And then it cuts to you you look at the. star Yeah. Yeah. And then it cuts to the prison or whatever.
00:16:50
Speaker
Okay. See, I think. even watching the unrated, her being in the asylum hooked me. I thought it was well directed. i thought the dialogue was sharp and clever.
00:17:02
Speaker
I wanted to know why she was there, because I knew just from the posters and the marketing of this movie that Megan Fox was kind of the antagonist. So I'm like, why is needy in the asylum? What happened?
00:17:16
Speaker
So it worked for me. I thought that was really nice way to start it. So I will mostly be talking about the unrated version because that is the one I won't. That is the only one I saw. ah Man, I just thought it was super clever.
00:17:30
Speaker
I don't think I've seen anything like it. I can't say I see a whole lot of the I don't know if you, this the succubus or siren genre.
00:17:41
Speaker
Yeah. i I don't see a lot of those movies and I've absolutely never seen one presented like this. So it's pretty original for me.
00:17:55
Speaker
I feel the same way, dude. Like it's it's not often that you see a female antagonist and protagonist at each other to such an extent. And man, it was kicked
Storyline Misconceptions and Analysis
00:18:06
Speaker
ass so hard. Fucking kicker, kicker. Watched her kick that doctor like halfway across the room at the asylum. I was like, oh, shit.
00:18:14
Speaker
What is going on here? i Yeah. Holy cow, dude. and the the story was not what i thought it was going to be from that point i didn't know anything about this movie what it was really about i assumed that it involves like some sort of sexual assault situation with horror tones to it but i man was totally not what i thought was go be and it was pretty badass i really liked this movie a lot so i gotta be honest and i'm ashamed to admit it ah I kind of thought like the premise of this was something like a demonic Freaky Friday. That's what I thought was going on based on what I saw in 2009. So it was in duffin it was nothing like what I expected.
00:18:57
Speaker
And it's for the better. i mean, that movie exists now and it's not bad. No, Freaky. was it Yeah, that that was an entertaining film. That was entertaining. I'll give it that for sure.
00:19:10
Speaker
So I am actually I'm at a five when it comes to the story here. I thought it was unique. Unlike anything I've ever seen. I'm a five.
00:19:21
Speaker
Same. I'm hitting that fives. Yeah, this is obviously a perfect movie to me, except there is one flaw. We'll get to it. Yeah. so So now I'm curious.
00:19:34
Speaker
Now I'm curious. All right. So jumping into character arcs, Jessica, you want to tackle the character arcs first? Okay. So we're following Needy um mostly, and we're seeing everything through her eyes and she starts out Needy. That's just her name for a reason.
00:19:51
Speaker
And she's, you know, the less popular of the two best friends and lets Jennifer walk all over her. And by the end of it, she's a demon slayer. So I would say there's quite an arc for her there. And Jennifer as well is kind of like, I'm gonna call her stupid, but she's a little bit of an airhead. She's a little bit of her, like she doesn't, you know, she cares about boys and music and and having fun and that kind of thing and being provocative. Cause she's, she's ah intentionally shocking. I think Jennifer behaves in an intentionally shocking way to get a rise out of people. She says a lot of like, I'll go play hello titty with the bartender. Like she says things like that.
00:20:30
Speaker
And then she goes from being, and you know, this, this, that girl to a fucking demon eating boys. So clearly heard her, her arc is there as well. Makes you think about what her home life was like prior to her becoming demoness, you know, they never act like that. Like, holy shit.
00:20:46
Speaker
Mom is single and dating. So there's something going on there. um usually when girls are like that and they're that sexualized, and I think Megan Fox has talked about this because nobody else at this point in time could have played this role. Nobody else could have been Jennifer because of the way that Megan Fox was in the zeitgeist at the time.
00:21:04
Speaker
She was extremely famous. She was the hot girl at the time. And I think everybody assumed. Transformers. Exactly. And I think everybody assumed she was an idiot. And then she wanted to make this movie.
00:21:17
Speaker
I don't know, i got i got I got lost in it all, but the character of Jennifer, there's something intrinsically linked with Megan Fox herself. And I think that alone makes the movie kind of fascinating. If you're just watching in a metaphorical, what Hollywood did to Megan Fox kind of way.
00:21:36
Speaker
Interesting. there's layers upon layers that were not even intentional. If you go back, you can analyze it from different directions. It's it's a very interesting story. It's a very interesting point because seriously, who the hell else could have been Jennifer?
00:21:51
Speaker
And then what happened to Megan Fox and and the way she was demonized and ripped apart and treated like she was just her body and it all coalesces here in Jennifer's body, I think. but And I think even commentary on how they marketed this film and the message of the film itself.
00:22:08
Speaker
Like there was a, there was a disconnect there because the movie's kind of commenting on that. And yet that's how they advertise for it. So I, I get that.
00:22:20
Speaker
Yeah. And they said they did a, they did a tour recently, like an anniversary tour or something where they were talking about the movie and the making of the movie. And they said that when they were making the movie, they knew that the studio was going to do that. They knew the studio was going to,
00:22:34
Speaker
make a big deal out of the kissing scene and put it in the trailer and and make it be about Megan Fox hot. So even while making the movie, they knew they were going to do this, which is sucks.
00:22:46
Speaker
Just hyper sexualize the trailers and focus on her. Yep. And you get that. I mean, there's great arcs in this film for our two main characters.
00:22:59
Speaker
Jennifer literally goes from the popular girl to which I don't think I'm reading into this too much.
00:23:10
Speaker
It's definitely there. Did they give an age for Jennifer? I don't recall. I think they have to be 17. I don't think that we're I don't think these are supposed to be legal adults. Yeah, they're still in high school, so they got to be at least like 16, 17, maybe 18.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah, which I think the whole point of Chris Pratt's character. God. That Jennifer is prey. Older men are preying on her, even though she's, you know, she's very forward.
00:23:42
Speaker
But from needy's comment, it's probably a result of trauma, you know, and just how she's coping. But she literally goes from prey to becoming the predator in this film.
00:24:01
Speaker
And as
00:24:04
Speaker
i I think that is like, it's very subtle, just that little bit about Chris Pratt line in there, like they're underage and they sneak into a bar and he clearly knows they're underage.
00:24:17
Speaker
and they're clear that they have a relationship jennifer says later that they do but he is clearly an adult and about to become a police officer so he's a cadet which i'm not sure exactly what age you need to be but he's drinking and so you assume that he is at least over 21. so there's there's some very subtle stuff going on.
00:24:46
Speaker
And I love Jennifer. Jennifer flat out says, I'm not even a backdoor virgin anymore. Thanks to Roman. So that's, that's pretty extreme for a 17 year old girl, but it's also what I expect from a 17 year old girl who's fucking a 20 something guy.
00:24:59
Speaker
Like they think that they have to do all that. Like they, that's, that's why guys in their mid twenties date teenagers is to get them to do things that they probably wouldn't do if they were 25 and knew better.
00:25:10
Speaker
no And it's, I appreciate how this movie didn't come out and like.
00:25:19
Speaker
Shove it down your throat necessarily, that that's that this is a predator prey situation going on. It is, but it's there. They gave you all the pieces for an intelligent person watching to be like, oh, she is the victim in that situation.
00:25:38
Speaker
And then it flips where she starts to become the predator. on all the men. And I think it's a great arc. It's I was hooked. And then I don't know if I can get too deep on like her becoming the predator part of it where she starts taking the revenge on the men.
00:25:59
Speaker
um But needy herself goes from the timid friend, the shy I don't want to say the ugly part, but like she's Amanda Savory. Well, exactly. very It's very if you took off your glasses, and pulled on your hair, you'd be beautiful.
00:26:16
Speaker
Yes, it's they're both like they pick two gorgeous people to play these parts, but they play as if needy is kind of the ugly of the two, the less desirable.
00:26:28
Speaker
But in the film, there's never a question about if needy is a virgin. that wasn't I noticed that when i the guys went up on stage, I was like, they're questioning Jennifer, but not needy, which I thought was interesting. So it's never there.
00:26:45
Speaker
But she goes from this timid friend to confronting her best friend who is becoming a monster.
00:26:57
Speaker
You know, this is just surface level because I saw it one and a half times. No, you're a hundred percent accurate on that. But, but they're, they're good. They're well-defined arcs. So I got to give it credit there.
00:27:11
Speaker
And it's as someone who's well-versed in girl politics, it's very accurate of how, of how teenage girls treat their best friends and treat, you know, each other in a horrible way. And, and like, like I said, Jennifer's bitchy to needy even before she becomes a demon.
00:27:31
Speaker
And Needy needs to break away from her because she's letting Jennifer run her life. Like she made plans to hang out with her boyfriend. Jennifer says jump. Needy says how high. By the end of it, she's stabbing her in the chest.
00:27:42
Speaker
And she's realizing that Chip is the one that was important to her. And now he's dead. my Yeah. So, man, I agree with the the assessment about Jennifer, but at the same time, she you could tell her she knows how to weaponize her sexuality to her benefit.
00:28:00
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Predator, like prey to predator. She still has her own sense of predator even prior to becoming, you know, demon infested. it just it seems to get herself disillusioned by this shitty band because they're from the city. Oh, ah, you know, it's really ridiculous, but it's trope there, you know?
00:28:22
Speaker
Needy, though, man, it sucks to you to know that she's been dealing with that shit like her whole life as quote-unquote friends. you know And it's so weird because they've got like that weird connection. you know And it's almost got kind of like a Nosferatu kind of essence to it.
00:28:40
Speaker
the link that they've got between the two of them. Yeah. You know you notice that? like Like when Jennifer is kissing on Chip and Needy's the dance and she touches her lips like, Chip, you know, like, holy shit, like she feels it like and as part of that connection. it's It's crazy, you know, so there's some amazing stuff with these characters, dude.
00:28:59
Speaker
But um I still feel shitty for Chip, though, even though he kind of like just seemed like a dude who's just hoping to get laid and like kept having to wait, wait, wait, I guess. but he kind of died not a virgin-ish.
00:29:12
Speaker
yeah See, you had a completely different take on it than I did. I had i did not think that the the sex scene with Chip and Needy was their first time. No, I didn't either. So I think that they had been going at it for a while and and Jennifer makes the Thai food comment.
00:29:27
Speaker
So I think that I think that they I i don't i think. the but Oh, he did say more condoms. So, OK. Yeah. yeah yeah but It just seems so awkward between them. like you I just think they're awkward. It was played up for comedy.
00:29:40
Speaker
okay yeah. Yeah, I took it as that was played up for comedy. But that scene is uncomfortable and hilarious at the same time. they There's some decent side characters too, like as far as B characters, like the band itself.
00:29:56
Speaker
Um, it's, it's, it's fun to see them trying to like achieve their hopes and dreams through being fucking pieces of shit by murdering somebody. And then finally seeing them get their cup of it at the end after like rising the famous startup and boom, you know, needy on the scene.
00:30:13
Speaker
Oh man. So happy. And I was just like, it was like one of my most favorite parts of needy's arc was her finally getting the band at the end. Sorry, spoilers, whatever. But dude, ah that I was just like, yes, motherfucker.
00:30:29
Speaker
I thought early on in the movie, I was like, Needy and Jennifer are going to team up and take out the band. Like, i thought that was going to be the climax of the film, not take out each other, but been cool it was still it was still cool to see needy kind of grow into her own self, become her own person and do it.
00:30:52
Speaker
ah Jessica, I had a question that maybe you can help explain. yeah Jonathan was talking about that Nosferatu connection that they had. And in I've heard this is cut from the theatrical version. I don't know, but And I have no idea why this would work, but why i do they have that connection?
00:31:15
Speaker
The only thing that I could establish was that um because Needy sucked her blood as kids in that sandbox scene.
00:31:29
Speaker
But I'm unlike like, they did a lot of weird stuff as kids. and So I'm just like, yeah, like that. i group can play boy boyfriend and girlfriend I have never questioned it ever that she like touches her lips and thinks about like what's going on.
00:31:44
Speaker
I've never questioned this because they just seem like best friends who know each other way too well. You are underestimating teenage girls and how entwined they get with their best friends. If they have a friend like that, if they have one best friend, it gets crazy.
00:31:59
Speaker
It's even if, even if it's non-sexual, which this is a sexual relationship, but even if it's not sexual, it's still like acting out a marriage half of the time and it's dramatic and girls like that's how girls learn empathy and how to you know do all of that kind of thing and rehearse kind of so being completely like just like wrapped around your best friend all the time is totally normal and when you put teenage girls in that situation they become hyenas
00:32:30
Speaker
but okay I have seen tons of best friends that were completely like sisters that eventually just completely destroyed one another and just don't even speak anymore.
00:32:42
Speaker
Cause at some point you got to cut it off. And I think that's the kind of the metaphor with Jennifer. Jennifer's a little bit a shitty friend. Yeah. They've been friends forever. Yeah. She's in love with her. Yeah. She loves her, but she's not good for needy and never has been.
00:32:57
Speaker
So that to to me, it's always just been like best friend magic. Like, needed just standing up against her in the first place, just telling her no to get out of her house, you know, standing up for herself.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, still pretty awesome moment of development for it. Be like, I'm sick your manipulation. Fuck off, you know? Yeah.
00:33:16
Speaker
Yeah, that makes sense. It was just one of those things that I was watching. I was like, did they establish why? But it makes sense. And yeah, I gave the character and character arcs for this. I give it a four.
00:33:34
Speaker
a sir I so remember five. All right. I obviously gave it a five.
00:33:41
Speaker
All right. We are already on Did we skip one or are we on the best category? are I mean, yeah you yeah we're on music. sounds Yeah, well, music and sound design.
00:33:53
Speaker
And this this is where the flaw is. Oh, no, I want to I want to I want to build up to it. So you talk about it because you're you're Mr. Emo man. Okay. Yeah. No, this so weirdly enough, I heard the song written written and performed in this movie for this movie before I ever saw this movie.
00:34:15
Speaker
Yeah, don't talk about it. Don't talk about it. Don't talk about that part. Talk about the actual soundtrack. I have things to say about the song. I have things to say about the song. Okay, I was just gonna say like that song was circulating among my friend group in 2009. I'd heard it. It's one of the best it's so Yeah, no.
00:34:32
Speaker
um Fine, how and I'm just gonna go there. The song that they play end of this movie is not Jennifer's Body. The song they play at the end of this movie is violent. So can you please explain to me why we name the movie Jennifer's Body and we use a different song?
00:34:51
Speaker
I'm actually a huge fan of the band Hole. Huge, huge. I listened to that album every single day for like five years. I was obsessed with that music. like Courtney loves Lunatic, but I was obsessed with Holt. I loved them, loved both of those albums because they have two like really, really
Soundtrack's Role and Impact
00:35:08
Speaker
good albums.
00:35:09
Speaker
um And Tastes Like Candy is actually a whole lyric. And when I came up with it, I was like, Jennifer's body did it. Why can't i um But yeah, I don't like that. I've never liked that. I do not like that at the end of the movie, they play Violet, even though Violet's a better song.
00:35:25
Speaker
And that is that's fair. I think that is that is a reasonable complaint for somebody who I don't know that I've actually ever spent that much time listening to a hole in my life.
00:35:37
Speaker
um I'm talking about the Through the Tree song. Fucking annoying. God, dude. So that that low shoulder, the band from the movie sings this song through the trees that I swear my friends played for me because I knew the words when it came on and I was like, I didn't know this was from this movie.
00:36:00
Speaker
I just think it was on some playlist or mixtape somebody gave me way back in the day when you would burn a CD and pass it to a friend. i I am pretty sure it was on there.
00:36:10
Speaker
We also got some of my favorites. ah Old. Well, I shouldn't say old. I love Panic at the Disco, except their final album. Their final album was garbage, but Everything else is good, even if it changes genre, but we got new perspective.
00:36:29
Speaker
Great panic song. ah We got some paramour in there with another custom song for the film. ah We got, I believe all time lows in there. yeah Florence and the machine I know is in there.
00:36:47
Speaker
And for some pickups. yes and for silverung pickups Yep. So in Florence and the Machine, I've seen live like that's how much I love her.
00:36:58
Speaker
And she's an incredible live. But the soundtrack is stacked with early. what What do you call that 2009 ish 2010 ish emo alternative anthem type bands that man this i was just loving that whole vibe but of this film because it's what i listened to cute is what we aim for was on there um dashboard confessional i believe yep so and who was i'm trying to remember the song that played when i said it was my favorite scene was from i'm trying to find the track list oh them i've got it in front of me and you need me to quote anything for you use it
00:37:47
Speaker
the really it was the heaviest song on there. That was the sword fucking doom metal, dude. That favorite scene you're talking about. I know exactly what you mean. The shot of the pond.
00:38:00
Speaker
Jennifer swimming naked net backshot and that fucking song celestial crown just perfectly fit, so hardcore. And if you know the band and The Sword, they have very artistic album covers.
00:38:14
Speaker
And when Jennifer comes out of the pond, she's got the smoke off the body and the kind of pose that she strikes, fits in really well with some of the type of artwork that they have, which I think is by Richie Beckett.
00:38:26
Speaker
amazing artists, does amazing album covers for so many bands, but a lot for The Sword, and that was just like one of the most choice music moments in the film for me, man. ah So good.
00:38:38
Speaker
Okay, so is that that was great. That's actually not even the one I'm talking about still. do I am talking about when she kills the football player and we first get on that scene, there is some hardcore screaming from it dies today.
00:39:00
Speaker
I think it's the song Sacred Heart either that I've heard of the band. It dies today, but it's telling me that it is ah the band Sacred Heart playing the song. It dies today. And I think that's backwards information.
00:39:14
Speaker
I was like, yeah, yeah, I know it dies today. So does this music and on top of that? The. score for the music, not only is the soundtrack just kick ass from every single song, the score itself is awesome.
00:39:36
Speaker
I'm not sure it's super memorable on its own, but unless I am thinking of like instrumental tracks that were from bands that are just placed there, but I was like, the score itself is kind of that alternative emo grunge metal rock whatever genre you want to call it all the people who get finicky about specific genres uh it's just that kind of music throughout most of the movie and the movie also uses it in the film like it leans into that jennifer has a fallout boy poster on the wall it is
00:40:16
Speaker
the crux of the story going to see the local indie band at a show. Like the music is as much a part of the story in this movie as it is just the soundtrack. They even, uh, the lead singer of the band, what is his name?
00:40:33
Speaker
Adam Brody. Adam Brody. I, I know him as Dave Rudelski. Uh, he even says a joke about like the only way to make it is if you get on some lame soundtrack.
00:40:47
Speaker
her And so I like that kind of self referential joke and commenting on like, yeah, they got a kick ass soundtrack for this movie and they make that joke.
00:40:59
Speaker
Uh, I'm also just working on the theory. I'm watching Gilmore girls with my wife. Cause she wanted me to. Um, and I just think this is the unofficial story of what happened to Dave Rudalski when he leaves stars hollow and breaks up with.
00:41:15
Speaker
And is no longer in the band.
00:41:18
Speaker
he I know just enough about Gilmore girls to know what you're talking He's so the lead singer of low shoulder is in a band with Lane from Gilmore Girls and Lane and the whole band is like my the only storyline I care about in that show.
00:41:36
Speaker
But because also the lead singer in that is the lead singer of Skid Row from 19 like 1989 and like nineteen eighty nine and ninety s He's in yes He is a regular member in Gilmore Girls and but he's in David. What the going on in Stars Hollow? He actually so the lead singer of Skid Row actually replaces Dave Radalski when Dave Radalski leads to do to form low shoulder and okay go to Jennifer's body.
00:42:09
Speaker
So it's the unofficial timeline of what happened to Dave Radalski when he left Gilmore Girls. He just became evil. Evil. Yeah, he basically he and his band start a new band.
00:42:22
Speaker
He I think he was he played like worship music for Lane's mom because she's super religious. So it just makes sense that he went off the deep end. Sold a sold a say and to make his band.
00:42:35
Speaker
Causes all this drama. Anyways, that's my comment on the music and sound of this film. they are intertwined also because the, the whole thing is kicked off with an emo band.
00:42:51
Speaker
Like it is an emo band that does it. And if you are familiar with the history of what was going on around that time in the music industry and like warp tour and stuff like that, this kind of shit was happening in real life. You had very young girls getting onto tour buses of dudes that were like 22 and drunk all the time.
00:43:12
Speaker
So it's very easy to put Jennifer in like, see the, the the parallel between real life. And I have to imagine Diablo Cody had that in mind. Like she thought about girls who were groupies and I don't know if she was aware of the amount of access that those particular kinds of guys had to these girls, but some of those emo bands were pretty, pretty icky.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah, say the least I think we know now more now than we did then. But it was definitely we know now that it was happening more than we did know then. But it it was it was definitely happening. Like it's definitely definitely too close to home on that one.
00:43:50
Speaker
But yeah, that's my fun music and sound design.
00:43:56
Speaker
i don't have much more to say i already went on my rant about it so you know i'm a five on this one same five um i'm still a five but i' i'm gonna remain forever bitter about that choice about the the closing violet violet was a single and it's the much it's a it's a much more popular song so that's why they picked it i understand it i just don't like it It just the symmetry needs to be there. And Jennifer's Body is actually kind of a creepy song, too.
00:44:26
Speaker
So it would fit very well. I just think it's a heavy, like a music heavy movie with good music for the most part. Yeah. I resonate with that so hard. Yeah. See, I read that the kind of the themes of the movie are based on the song Jennifer's Body by Hull.
00:44:43
Speaker
They just didn't use that song. Yeah. the the i mean The choruses, they found pieces, like the pre-choruses, they found pieces of Jennifer's body. like She repeats it over and over and over again. um There's like debates about what it's actually about.
00:44:58
Speaker
ah Somebody, like Courtney was known for being really weird and jealous about Kurt Cobain, obviously. And he dated other musicians while and before dating Courtney.
00:45:11
Speaker
And there's one, I can't remember if it's Mary Lou Lord. I don't remember which one it is, but there was some girl that was like cool, popular alt girl grunge in that region. And she had written a song about a woman that had been trapped or something. And then Courtney was like, I can write a song about a woman being trapped.
00:45:27
Speaker
And, and that's, you know, they found pieces of Jennifer's body. Just relax. Just go to sleep. You're hungry, but I'm starving. He cut you down from the tree. He keeps you in a box by the bed alive, but just barely.
00:45:42
Speaker
So I've never like seen direct, but it's definitely the same like vibes as the song. Right on. ah Fun whole side fact. um Their former bass player, Melissa Off-Demar, went solo and has amazing music.
00:45:59
Speaker
Holy cow. Definitely check out her first album, man, because that got me hooked hard. That's such a good album. So good music. who All right.
00:46:10
Speaker
I think we're on editing and special effects. Hot damn, yeah. We're moving pretty quickly here. um There's really not much to complain about
Technical Aspects: Effects and Editing
00:46:21
Speaker
in this department. Yeah, the mouth, when we see it briefly, doesn't look great by today's standards, but it's also fine.
00:46:32
Speaker
Like, it doesn't bother me at all. Yeah, it's not laughable like some CG. Yes. And that's why it's great with the editing part because you only see brief moments of it so you don't have to focus too hard about it.
00:46:42
Speaker
Yeah, it's very quick. And for just about everything else is pretty practical. Everything was practical and it looks really good for the special effects.
00:46:54
Speaker
It also just the editing. I mean, and I watched the unrated cut the longer cut and I had zero issue with the pacing.
00:47:09
Speaker
So I that is one thing I saw online was that some people thought that theatrical version was paced better. And I had zero issue. It didn't lose my interest at all. I was I'm not going to say it was on the edge of my seat, but I was definitely invested in the story and where this was going. And I have no complaints here.
00:47:37
Speaker
thoughts jessica i agree um i i i have seen both i don't think there's anything wrong with the unrated version do prefer the regular version just because i've seen it i think possibly just because i've seen it so many times that if i watch the unrated version things stick out and they kind of like throw me off and i that's weird to me but it is very zippy and and it never it's like one of those movies that there's always something happening it doesn't it doesn't give you a second to like breathe too much, which can be bad or it can be good. I think it's done well here.
00:48:08
Speaker
And I think that Diablo Cody is the reason why, and her script is the reason why, because she doesn't allow in the script, she doesn't allow there to be crazy extra space. And like, I think that she's changed as a writer because I follow her still.
00:48:24
Speaker
um I think she's changed as a writer and she gets a little bit more like pensive and gives a couple of minutes to breathe in a scene. But here it's just like, bam bam, bam, bam, bam. And it's fantastic. And I love it.
00:48:36
Speaker
I think that works for this type of movie. The bam, bam, bam, bam. It should be. You shouldn't have a horror comedy that's slow. Yes. So I watched the unrated version like Tim. So I'm not sure about the comparison as far as the editing goes.
00:48:50
Speaker
um I like, it's kind of ties into direction a little bit. I liked like the counterpart balance of what's going on with Jennifer and then what's going on with Needy. But I think that those scenes of the back and forth transitions that with Yetting, they maybe could have cut some of those a little shorter.
00:49:06
Speaker
Some of them felt a little too long for me, i think. And then the part where Jennifer is luring Colin out to that that construction house.
00:49:19
Speaker
Like some of that just it seemed kind of long with him jumping around to the house, blah, blah, blah. It took a little too long to get to the point of what's going on there. But otherwise, I liked it for what it was. And like you guys said, pacing was really good. Otherwise, special effects. You got some good blood gore. You know, you got some other scar stuff.
00:49:36
Speaker
You get to see Jennifer all hacked up body limbs. You know, it's not much of a close up for what you'd like to see more if you're into seeing more gore. But it's there long enough at a distance that it still looks pretty good. um and like the few scenes where you're seeing uh like that football player dude laid out and seeing how his guts are splayed out and everything it all opened up that looked pretty cool i thought that was really good on the effects for that part and with like it it seems maybe kind of wire-ish but it's still cool seeing like needy floating towards the end there with the demon powers and everything that she's got now um i thought that scene oh
00:50:11
Speaker
not even needy the scene of needy attacking Jennifer in bed when they were levitating in the air yeah when they levitate I thought that was super well done what about where she's like Jennifer's levitating though in the in the pool area in the overgrown place where Chip dies because they had a hanging up there and like she's just hovering it's not that impressive yeah
00:50:36
Speaker
words's what needing that's what That's what Needy says to her. That's what Needy says to her. She's flying or whatever.
00:50:44
Speaker
That is, ah I'll get into that on script. I'll get into that on script. But yeah, no, I thought all of those scenes worked really well.
00:50:55
Speaker
All right, so then scores up. i'm actually I'm actually a five on this. Five. I'm a five. Trifecta. Okay, so taking us taking us to the script, on to the next, the script for this movie. Jessica, do you want to um do you want to kick
Script's Strengths and Themes
00:51:18
Speaker
this one off?
00:51:18
Speaker
Sure, it's the best. it's it's that this is This is, I think, where the whole movie comes from. um I don't think if the script, because I've read it, I think if the script were worse, if it wasn't as good, this movie wouldn't be what it is.
00:51:30
Speaker
um i i tend to think early diablo cody when she was super quippy and coming up with like there's there's there's shades of juno in this it goes a little too far with the move on dot org needy and a couple of the other things where it's just like no we don't have to do that in every single sentence um she's more balanced about that now but other than that the actual script itself i think is just fricking incredible. I think it's paced perfectly. I think that it's it's it's very subtle. There's so much going on here and you have to pay attention or you don't see it. i watched i watched I listened to a podcast where they talked about this movie for two hours and never talked about how gay it is.
00:52:12
Speaker
And they were still talking. They never scratched a surface on that, but they still had plenty of insight and things to talk about. so like So when she wrote this, she did that on purpose. She does subtle things like that.
00:52:24
Speaker
And I think that adds to the story and makes it richer and makes it like, it's just, it's a very finished world that we're watching. And that's because of the script. She did that. This is an Academy award-winning screenwriter. I mean, she knows what she's doing.
00:52:37
Speaker
Yeah. Whether people like Diablo Cody's writing or not is fact. I just like how we're talking. So we're coming up on about a year ago that we've recorded the 2018 Black Christmas.
00:52:50
Speaker
And this is one where I just watch. Like, this is a movie that had feminist themes and queer themes in the movie. And I never once felt like it was preaching or beating me over the head or doing anything blunt with it.
00:53:12
Speaker
It's there and it's written really well. And like you said, you can talk for two hours about this movie and never touch on that because that's that's what good writing is.
00:53:24
Speaker
That's what good writing is. It's there and you can talk about it. You more certain people are going to pick up on it more than others necessarily. But that's, that's the power of a good story is that there are multiple layers to it. There's multiple ways for the audience to see it.
00:53:45
Speaker
Even if the story itself is clear, those underlying themes and those tones and those messages are conveyed subtly. and that's the difference between 2018 black Christmas and this film this film is beautifully written like and not just beautiful as in i actually i loved that dialogue at the grave side like is it a little cheesy when the mom what what did she say Jonathan you quoted it ah for which part
00:54:21
Speaker
I've got the something I've got the monopoly on pain when she's talking to the goth kids. yeah I thought that whole dialogue. that there No, it's great. Totally fucked up. Yeah, it was oh good.
00:54:33
Speaker
I was like, hey, well, I'm not going to ABC this. That works so good in this movie because this movie has established this kind of quippy, serious yet funny dialogue.
00:54:49
Speaker
And that makes that delivery work because is it a little bit silly? Yes. Is it also heartbreaking?
00:55:02
Speaker
yeah Yes. Yes. And it works. And did I chuckle a little bit? Yes. But also when she said I have the monopoly on pain, i was like, oh damn. Like it was good.
00:55:13
Speaker
Yeah. And when those kids are being the emo kids at the side, I'm cracking up. I think it is so funny. It was so good.
00:55:24
Speaker
i told my wife when I'm watching it, we were watching it together and i said probably about 75% of the way through. i said, this is a movie that I think gets funnier every time you watch it.
00:55:38
Speaker
Yes. So i picked up on that because I was like, first watch, you're kind of testing the waters. You're seeing what this is about, what's going on.
00:55:49
Speaker
And I started to laugh more as the movie went on, even though it's listed as a horror comedy. i started to realize, like, there were certain things that we laughed at immediately the first time and it just grew.
00:56:03
Speaker
ah Like the line about what kind of math Chris Pratt takes because my wife is a math teacher. So we laughed at that because it was she got that.
00:56:16
Speaker
But there's also those subtle bits of darker humor that I thought like it's silly, but I thought it's funny when she was like, I spent a lot of time at the occult section in the library. And he's like, our library has an occult section.
00:56:31
Speaker
um there why I think those things are funny. This script worked for me. probably worked for me more than Juno's did.
00:56:43
Speaker
But that's because definitely it's a little darker. It's yeah darker. It plays with that. It's a little bit more. I don't it's not afraid to offend. It just says it and is unapologetic about that.
00:56:58
Speaker
But it's played with the characters and it's played for humor. And I i was done. I thought it was so funny. And I think it's funnier on my half rewatch while it was on in the background. I caught other things that I was laughing out about again. so i think it's a script that grows on me that also balances serious themes with dark humor really really well aside from the mom's domination on the goth kids at the funeral it's awesome because you see those kids again later at the dance where they're coming in through the balloons and the one girl is like this is my my life and this is a texas and blah blah blah popping balloons
00:57:41
Speaker
And then the other girl, this is your abortion. This is your report other abortion. And the girl's like, I fucking hate you. or you're such a bitch or something like, oh, and it just, it ties into that viciousness that you were talking about, Jessica, when it comes to girlfriends. And it's like holy shit, man.
00:57:57
Speaker
I was like, that was savage as shit. Oh, ah oh, oh. It was amazing. There was a lot of good lines throughout this whole thing with the dialogue. Dude, it's pretty good. So many good shots in there.
00:58:09
Speaker
Even got kids goth kids, the guys kids are almost completely removed from the the theatrical version. Oh, that's a shame. because I love them. They they are great. Well, another reason to watch the unrated version, everybody. Yes. Part and be like, do oh, when they were popping the balloons, I laughed out loud. I thought that was so funny.
00:58:28
Speaker
i And ah even like, man, it's inappropriate, but I thought it was so funny. And it's this is one of those lines that was inappropriate and funny, but kind of played as a little bit of commentary on the characters and the situation.
00:58:46
Speaker
But when Nidhi and her boyfriend are in bed and he is like, am I hurting you? And it was kind of played based on what was going on. But there's also layers to that thing that I'm just like,
00:59:02
Speaker
It's he's a little proud. He's a little proud when he asks it. Do if you look on his face is just green shit like, oh, like, dude, you're not beating it up that hard. comedy Yeah.
00:59:14
Speaker
So but I think there's layers about what the movie is commenting on the humor and all that right there in that scene. And I think it also goes to show you that nevermind.
00:59:28
Speaker
We'll move on to that scene. We'll on. It bothers me though with the script though. Like the use of the word salty, the way she used it made me cringe a lot because yeah me growing up, if something, if you were salty, that's you being shitty and fucked up and not a good thing.
00:59:43
Speaker
But her using salty, like, oh yeah, that guy's so salty. I'm like, dude, that's the, that's the Diablo isms that I'm like, eh, We didn't need that. We didn't that. We didn't need to invent. She makes fun of herself in the movie Young Adult. don't know if either of you have seen that. It's really good. It's very obviously based on her life after Juno and this movie came out.
01:00:07
Speaker
Charlize Theron plays a young adult author who writes something very similar to Sweet Valley High, and it's being canceled, and she goes home, and it's a big mess, and it's an awesome movie. Um, but she is in a bookstore at one point or no coffee shop. i don't know where she is. She's just in public listening to two teenage girls talk to one another and jotting down the stupid shit they're saying.
01:00:29
Speaker
so Diablo herself has made fun of herself for the kind of dumb shit she puts in movies. But I did have salty written down here as one of those things where I'm like, oh, and move on.org. Move on.org was another one. There's something really similar to that in Juno. I can't remember see off the top of my head. It's just, it's too much.
01:00:47
Speaker
It needs like 5% less. I didn't catch either of those. I didn't catch either of those. yeah But then Salta is great. When Jennifer says she's lime green jello, like that's amazing. That was so it's up lame.
01:01:04
Speaker
But that's kind of thing between like two best friends and shit. It's going to be like super lame shit like that. I've had so many dumb things that I've said like that between some of my, my old like best friends from high school and my best bros back in Illinois. It just, it's one of those things like it's so cheese, but it's, that's just life.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:27
Speaker
Okay. it's ah I'm an emo kid. I got the emo. I got the emo's not dead water bottle. All right.
01:01:39
Speaker
So did we did we give our numbers? We have not. I was a five. Five. I went four. Okay. That's fair. ah So acting then. can i um want to say something first.
01:01:53
Speaker
Go. So being in 2009, being 18, 19, when this came out, uh, I was just becoming an adult at the time. Megan Fox was at the height of her, whatever you want to call it.
01:02:09
Speaker
The zeitgeist stardom ishness. thought she was only getting roles because she was hot. It was this movie that I watched that I said she can act.
01:02:25
Speaker
I watch this movie and I was floored by the layers that she brings to this character. I, and I'm like, shame on me. But to be honest, I really only ever saw her in the transformers
Megan Fox's Performance
01:02:40
Speaker
movies. I don't think I saw her in anything else. I can't,
01:02:45
Speaker
I can't i think anything. I think that's fair because I had the same kind of impression of her until I saw the movie. I just saw the movie when it came out versus you seeing it now. But I didn't see Transformers. I wasn't into any of that kind of stuff. So I didn't know who she was. um She was apparently in like Disney stuff too. I think she was in Confessions of a Teenage Drama Queen.
01:03:05
Speaker
Okay. She had done some small things, but I thought she was just an idiot. I thought she was just some hot actress. And then I saw the movie. I was like, oh no, that's not the case. And if you hear her talk, If you hear her talk, she's very intelligent, she's very funny, and she's very self-aware. So she knows like how she is perceived.
01:03:21
Speaker
and And I don't think she necessarily likes it, but I think that she deals with it. Yeah. If that makes any sense. Yeah. um So i like like they like like I said, nobody else but Megan fox could have played this role because she had that going on at the same time.
01:03:38
Speaker
um if people had watched this movie when it came out, I think that she might've had a very different career. I would agree. I just, just the scene at the ritual, like I felt her pain.
01:03:53
Speaker
I genuinely, when she's sitting there crying after the whole thing, Well, not after, but like it was good. I was amazed, but also her comedic timing in this movie was impressive because you can have comedy scripts that don't work because your actors don't know timing or your director doesn't know what to do with the timing.
01:04:24
Speaker
I think comedians do better in horror movies than just about anybody. So I think that whenever you throw somebody who's funny and has comedic timing into a horror movie, you're not just getting the funny person, you're getting like there's something else there that they can capture and be weird about and be a little creepy about. And I think that's why it works for for Megan. I think she's funny and she understands how comedy works and she knows when to turn it up and when to turn it scary.
01:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I think like one of the scenes that I was like, wow, her timing was great was when it shows her in the van with the band and they're talking about like, oh, she's a virgin and she's pretending and she's like, yeah, I don't even know how to do the sex. like it Like the timing of it, the delivery of it, all of it worked.
01:05:11
Speaker
And it was funny, her timing throughout the whole thing. I was surprised by Megan Fox. I did not think. I'm surprised to say this. I did not think the acting would be stolen from Amanda Seyfried, but.
01:05:29
Speaker
I thought Megan. Amanda's great. There's zero complaints about Amanda, but Megan is who surprised me. Megan has more to work with. too Well.
01:05:41
Speaker
Script-wise or? Yeah. Like she's got a lot of stuff going. Needy is pretty much just Needy and then becomes our hero or whatever to to to stop the whole thing. Jennifer is really going through it. And and unique like I genuinely think in the scenes where like in the kitchen right after Jennifer's been attacked and she's with Needy and she's like creepy and vomiting black stuff.
01:06:02
Speaker
I think Megan Fox is terrifying in that scene. Yeah. I really do. I think she's very unsettling in that scene. So I, she had that and Amanda really didn't have that kind of thing to latch onto. Hers was more being the, like, if it's a comedy, she's more of a straight man.
01:06:21
Speaker
That makes sense. And so, yeah, that that's all I have to say. I just wanted to say that I was genuinely impressed by Megan and it made me watching this made me wish her career had taken a different trajectory.
01:06:38
Speaker
Because I'm sitting here watching this with my wife and I was like, what did she even do after this? So she was huge in like 2007 to 2010.
01:06:50
Speaker
And then I couldn't tell you anything she's done in the last 10 years. And my wife was like, well, I think she's a mom now. yeah she will She got she got black blacklisted.
01:07:02
Speaker
She got blacklisted by ah Michael Bay. So she could not work. She couldn't get work for for a while. And then she's had a couple of little like rebounds. um She did ah she had a really great run on ah New Girl.
01:07:18
Speaker
She was a substitute roommate for a while whenever Zooey Deschanel was out on maternity leave and she was really fun on that. And she's kind of a badass and she's kind of really, ah she basically plays herself in everything that she's in but that's fine because everybody loves the bitchy hot girl type thing.
01:07:34
Speaker
um but she has a very tumultuous relationship with machine gun kelly um and then she has kids and then she was been in a few like she was in the new mortal combat movie oh she briefly uh appeared on the show overcompensating as a hot poster for themselves four ah yeah like the action genre Oh, she was in Expendables 4? I don't think anybody saw that movie. I don't think so either. No, I i didn't. I have no idea. I just know she was on it.
01:08:09
Speaker
That's it. There's a movie called Till Death that she was in where she plays a woman who was handcuffed to her husband's dead body. um it's You get what you expect you would get out of that movie.
01:08:21
Speaker
um It's worth throwing on if you're really, really bored, but it's not amazing. But it's fun to watch her be like, ugh, I'm trapped with this guy and try to like escape being murdered.
01:08:32
Speaker
But did you see in Jonah Hex? No. Who saw Jonah Hex? I did. I saw Jonah Hex. I started Jonah Hex and I did not finish Jonah. That's cool movie.
01:08:43
Speaker
Finish it. Oh, come on. i I'm really sad Michael Bay blacklisted her because i do remember her in Turtles. They weren't the greatest Turtles movies, but I kind of love the Turtles. I think Turtles is when he i think turtles is when he allowed her to come back.
01:09:00
Speaker
and do something. I think he brought her back specifically for Turtles. Like he un-blacklisted her for that. she She made some comments about like, I don't wanna have to wash a car in a bikini in a movie and he didn't like that. And I think that's where.
01:09:13
Speaker
Well, that's Michael Bay for you, but totally fair of her to request that. Yeah. But it's not just Meghan that's got amazing acting and there's a great supporting cast um it's we got ah kyle gallner we already talked about we got johnny simmons as chip um this was right before we did scott pilgrim scott pilgrim which is another good rock band movie uh j jonah jameson is in it yes jk simmons my guy um my
01:09:45
Speaker
almost unrecognizable. He came on and I was like, that dude looks a lot like J.K. Simmons. He played Juno's dad. so So they brought him over for this movie.
01:09:55
Speaker
And then Amy Starris. From Strangers with Candy on Comedy Central back in the day.
Supporting Cast Contributions
01:10:02
Speaker
That's where I know her from, but I think most people now would know her from being in the Book of Boba Fett.
01:10:08
Speaker
Who? Amy Starris. The mom. Needy's mom. that you don't see much of hardly in the whole film. Yeah. I wonder if her mom, I think there might have been a lot of stuff with her mom that got cut too.
01:10:21
Speaker
But her mom is hilarious. Yes. Just that little scene like at breakfast table or whatever. Well, it's four o'clock in the afternoon. But mom is sleeping at breakfast and she says be she says something about her dream But then she calls it refers to Jesus JC. just so funny i thought that was hilarious. i If you know who she is, it adds layers and like what her comedy is. It adds layers because she's a comedian, but not in a traditional way. She's real weird.
01:10:58
Speaker
Her brother is David Sedaris, the writer, and their whole family is bonkers, but in a good way. Yeah. the i just want to comment on JK Simmons here because he was hamming it up with his claw hand.
01:11:13
Speaker
food cheese Also, I thought it was so funny that after the football player dies, he's talking to the class and someone starts crying and he turns around to the tissues with his claw hand, not his real hand, and hands it to him.
01:11:30
Speaker
I thought that was so funny. But also in that little monologue, do you think he was sleeping with the Spanish teacher? Oh, I never got that impression, but maybe that sounds like the kind of thing she would put in a script.
01:11:45
Speaker
He well, he goes through the we lost we lost this person. We lost this person. And then he gets to the Spanish teacher and starts choking up. I did not that. He starts crying a little bit. And I was like, either it's the, like, this many bodies getting to him after the fire, or this dude was sleeping with the Spanish teacher because there was some emphasis on the way he delivered that one.
01:12:12
Speaker
I just thought that was, like, one of those subtle, like, this is a living, breathing world. These characters are doing things beyond this moment kind of scene that I thought, whether JK brought that or that was written into the script. I thought it was clever and I liked it.
01:12:31
Speaker
We ready for the scores on acting. Um, was gonna say, man, i know I've seen Adam Brody and some stuff. I just don't remember right off hand what it was. He's always played. for He is Seth Cohen.
01:12:43
Speaker
He's starring on a, uh, uh, I think he may have just won an Emmy. um he is currently yeah he is currently married to leighton meester from gossip girl and uh they lost their home in the palisades fire recently uh but both of them both of them have really thriving careers he's on a sitcom on netflix with kristen bell yeah nobody wants it and i think i think i think he got nominated or won for that show okay um but
01:13:15
Speaker
No, he was like Mr. Heartthrob back in the day as well from the OC because he was like the cute nerdy guy. um and then he's been used in stuff a couple times he's used in this movie and he's used in promising young woman because he has that nice sweet boy persona in the other things he's in he's got that persona in gilmore girls too doesn't he isn't he like wholesome on gilmore girls oh yeah he's like he's basically the same character that he plays in this movie minus the satan worship yeah yeah he he he he's not a but he's he's such a nice guy and they cast him in these roles where he's playing evil
01:13:50
Speaker
because he's playing evil and uh promising young woman too and he just shines because you don't expect adam brody to be worshiping satan or almost raping someone yeah right it's it's really effective it's really effective when whenever movies do that and he was in scream 4 and scream 5. oh sure he was in shazam recently it was just sam Yeah, he plays one of the superheroes like when the boys transform.
01:14:22
Speaker
He plays one of the superheroes. And he was in Ready or Not, which is a great film. He was really good in Ready or Not. Ready or Not fantastic, yes. But he's he's done he's one of those guys that's in just about everything.
01:14:40
Speaker
I think he's really well-liked, so he gets hired a lot. i mean He seems like a nice, likable dude. Yeah, he seems like a likable dude until he sacrifices you to Satan to further his career. right ah The dude who played Colin, though, Kyle Gallner, man. I remember hearing from some stuff. He was like in the 2010 Nightmare on Elm Street.
01:14:57
Speaker
But I remember him from way back when he was in ah the movie Wet Hot American Summer. He was in Wet Hot American Summer? Yeah, so he was Bobby's buddy, so he's credited. Yeah. As one of the kids? Oh, I did not know that.
01:15:11
Speaker
It's a goofy-ass movie, but definitely worth watching. I liked the Netflix reunion of that, where they all came back as, like, 40-year-old adults and pretended they were still teenagers. It's so dumb. It's so great.
01:15:22
Speaker
It was a prequel, and they were still teenagers. It was good.
01:15:29
Speaker
Crazy shit. But Kyle is ah kyle's a full on screen king now. he He was in the Smile movies. he Last year he was in Strange Darling, which is fantastic.
01:15:40
Speaker
um He's constantly working and he picks really good projects. so I need to see a Strange Darling. That's on my list. Yes, you do. And don't let yourself get spoiled.
01:15:53
Speaker
Yeah, I won't. I'm not seeing anything about it. With J.K. Simmons, have you seen Whiplash? Oh, yeah, we just watched a long ago. Dude, that movie is so friggin intense, man. It was so weird seeing him play such a light role in this movie in contrast to that. i was like, man, what kind threw me off for a sec there, but still cool.
01:16:12
Speaker
He was in Whiplash. He was jacked in Whiplash because that was around the time he was filming Justice League. And he was jacked for that role too. They made him get jacked for Justice League. Dude, the dude lost. so job Have you seen the photos of Jack to JK Simmons?
01:16:30
Speaker
It started. It started. Oh, it's impressive. It's impressive. I'm like the dude's 60 something, maybe 70. I don't know, but he he got ripped.
01:16:44
Speaker
But anyways, on the acting, I'm actually, i am surprised. But I'm a five on this because I was impressed. I was impressed. Also a five.
01:16:56
Speaker
Also a five. It's not horror movie acting. It's real acting. They hired real actors in this movie. Yeah, definitely. The kids felt like awkward, goofy fucking high school kids. Yeah. My wife said watching it, she was like the boyfriend, Needy's boyfriend. I don't know his name. I barely remember Jennifer and Needy. um Chip.
01:17:18
Speaker
Yeah, so I'm so bad with names. I'm incredibly bad with names. It's awful. It's awful watching movies and it's awful reading books because if you introduce too many characters too fast, I have to have like post-it notes.
01:17:31
Speaker
um Anyways. my wife is watching it and saying like chip is the only one who looks like a high schooler in it even though he is the same age i was like to be fair i thought amanda looked like a high schooler a couple times but chip did look young and i was like bailey i think it's the emo kid haircut they gave him made him look like a baby it looked like a baby i think that was his actual hair i don't think that was just for the It's what was in.
01:18:03
Speaker
It's what was in then. ah Beaver Bob. yeah all right Direction. i i am deeply saddened by the fact that this is the director's only film.
01:18:20
Speaker
Oh. Okay. She works on something else, though. There's something she's... Karen Kusama? No, she's done other stuff.
01:18:31
Speaker
Um, she's working on yellow jackets right now. She's, she's, uh, directing of yellow jackets. Um, that's right. Yeah. Thinking who, man, somebody I just saw they it's the only film they've done, but you're right. Cause did she direct the Eon flux movie?
01:18:47
Speaker
Yes, she did. Oh, show cool. i was definitely wrong. well Who did I look up? Maybe I looked up a Diablo. Cody has only directed one film.
01:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. Diablo, Diablo like dipped her toe in for like a second. and then went back Yeah, she. would you say Yeah, she writes. She doesn't direct. But yeah, no, Yellow Jackets.
01:19:09
Speaker
I love Yellow Jackets. It's a great series. She directed the Outsider TV series, which was all or an episode of that, which was also a great show. And the Man in the High Castle, also a great show.
01:19:27
Speaker
You say Yellow Jackets and it makes me think of the found footage series I was talking about at one point on YouTube, Marble Hornets. Oh yeah. Yeah. You ever see Jessica? Yes, but I remember absolutely nothing about it. Ah, okay.
01:19:41
Speaker
Creepy high camera footage. Yeah, I know what it is. i just can't picture anything about it or yeah, but I do know what it is. It's freaky. Yes. I found it very in transfer by it for a while.
01:19:53
Speaker
Early, early internet. like horror things that people were writing and putting out there on the internet and YouTube videos from the early days. stuff Yeah. All that stuff used to be really fucked up and like it some of it's still really good. I watch, I watch a YouTube group.
01:20:10
Speaker
It's two people called creep cast and they go back and they read like old creepy pastas and stories like that from the heyday and they go through and they tell the story.
01:20:22
Speaker
again and so revisiting some of it i'm like man some of this stuff's messed up some of this stuff really good and then you hear stories that you're like oh yeah that was turned into a movie a couple years later But yeah, we're Karen Kusama has actually directed quite ah quite a few things ah and well in the horror world.
01:20:49
Speaker
She's gone out of it, not firmly in the whole world horror world, but she does a lot connected to horror and she's good at it. This movie looked fantastic.
01:21:01
Speaker
Oh, it's it's a gorgeous movie. I've enjoyed the crap out of how this movie was directed. And this is a movie that I think balancing your comedy and your horror.
Balancing Horror and Comedy
01:21:14
Speaker
You either get it to where it works or this movie is a total failure ah and it works in this film. I think it has to be your type of humor to necessarily appreciate the humor.
01:21:26
Speaker
But yeah even if you don't find this movie funny, it still works as a movie. It's not. Totally. It's not one of those like ah bad comedy is a bad movie.
01:21:39
Speaker
But if the comedy doesn't land in a horror movie, it can still be an effective horror movie. And this case, I think it does work that way. I think even if you don't necessarily like the comedy, it's not your cup of tea, the dark humor, the story is still engaging and presented in a way that is still engaging.
01:22:00
Speaker
i I was genuinely surprised I think watching this just in general, I was surprised that I haven't heard more about this movie throughout the years, that it wasn't a bigger deal when it was released.
Narrative Devices and Lore
01:22:15
Speaker
Cause I remember seeing the case on the family video shelf at my local family video and thinking that my mom would kill me if I brought that home. with but I I remember it being out but I don't remember anybody talking about it and I'm surprised because I can't find much to complain about in this movie and I think that a lot goes to Diablo Cody in the writing and a lot goes to Karen understanding the script and translating it to screen beautifully
01:22:47
Speaker
right oh so for me man it's Part of it, like I said like i said earlier, the the way they transitioned back and forth between what's going on with Needy and Jennifer in those counterpart moments, I thought was a great way to kind of push the story throughout some of those parts in the mid, but Devil's Kettle itself,
01:23:10
Speaker
how they took Devil's Kettle and kind of threw that local lore part of it into the story. I thought it was really awesome. It makes me think about the story for i was Mel's Hole. if you ever read on that one or anything about it?
01:23:23
Speaker
Check it out. Mel's Hole. it's It's a very interesting story about a hole that has no bottom. It's got, seems like, metal-rimmed like lining at the top, but like makes no sound. There's no sound within like close range of it.
01:23:36
Speaker
People have done experiments trying to put stuff down, bringing stuff back up and just like weird, odd things that are happening and weird like mutated things that come up from what they put down in the hole. Like they put a lamb in there, came out, gave birth some weird twisted thing. if so There's a whole big thing about it, but it makes me think about with Devil's Kettle, that aspect of,
01:23:57
Speaker
this mysterious place where there's a hole where the water flows through they don't know where it goes where it ends and using that as part of a device for the story and then how the band after that see like jennifer's hacked up and she doesn't know what's happened to her doesn't know how she got back and it kind of like they leave it open you don't see them do it but it leads to them disposing of her body down mill's hole and not only is she a failed sacrifice who's been filled the spirit of a demon, but Devil's Kettle as its own thing has reassembled her, it seems like, aside from just being you know this demon infested person.
01:24:37
Speaker
And i think that's really awesome that they use that in that way. And then at the end, when Needy escapes the asylum, she walks by and you see those scientific balls that they were dropping in to try and see where it leads to.
01:24:49
Speaker
And it's like, oh, here's where Devil's Kettle really exits out. And then you see the knife that the band throws away. after the sacrifice and needy finding that and then using that to exact revenge was just amazing for the direction that part of direction man so the gotta love local lore and shit like that and how it comes about good ways it's the whole uh check off's gun thing where they show you If they show you something in the beginning, it's going to become important at the end.
01:25:22
Speaker
And when they showed the scientists throwing it down the hole, I was like, that's going to be important. That's going to come up later. And I also i did appreciate how it wasn't like essential to the main plot.
01:25:34
Speaker
It was like a nice little nod that she's going to kill them with the same knife they used on Jennifer. It was like, it's a hot sacrifice
The Female Gaze and Relationships
01:25:44
Speaker
knife. Like, oh, it's a hot sacrifice knife. And he's like, it's a Bowie knife.
01:25:52
Speaker
you Bowie. It's kind of a Beavis and Butthead moment there. It's great. i don't think that's the theatrical for No? It's not. It's not ringing a bell.
01:26:04
Speaker
It's not ringing a bell. sets yeah my stuff and She's also a master of, um I think everybody kind of knows what the male gaze is. It's like, oh, Megan Fox hot.
01:26:16
Speaker
Let's close up on her boobs. ah Karin Kusama does the female gaze really well. And I think the best way to explain this is the scene with Jennifer when she's walking down the hall.
01:26:28
Speaker
The one I'm talking about is the first one when we first meet her and like Needy is like, what's up? moing they're Like, what's up Monistat, Vagisil, whatever. She's walking down the hall and Needy sees her and she's at the center of the screen.
01:26:41
Speaker
She is the world. And that is how Needy views her. She's still the hot girl walking down the the hallway, but it's through Needy's eyes. And all of these scenes with Megan are not done in a,
01:26:58
Speaker
Megan Fox boobs kind of way. but Even when she's, even when she's naked, she's pretty well covered by her hair. um In the scene where she eats the football player. And it's a lot of like, it's a, there's a lot of, it's shot to evoke a lot of emotion and humanize the characters in a very specific way.
01:27:18
Speaker
And I think she's a master of it. And she does it throughout this whole thing because I just, I mean, she's gorgeous in this movie, but if you're walking around thinking Megan Fox hot, you're just not paying attention to the film.
01:27:28
Speaker
Seriously. and But the way that Needy looks at her and the way that Jennifer is shot through, the camera uses to be Needy's eyes toward Jennifer, that's another one of those things that's like, like I was not in love with my best friends in high school and college, but when I met each of them, it was in a hallway at school and both times I was like, that is the coolest girl have ever seen in my entire life.
01:27:54
Speaker
I need to be her best friend immediately. And at both times, that's what happened. and To be fair, my best friend from college was like singing show tunes in the hall. So it's not a Megan Fox kind of
01:28:07
Speaker
But it was very much that. And is she nails those kinds of things very, very, very well. And you can see it throughout the whole movie. like Like I said, like the best friend magic type of thing, they really nail that down.
Cultural Impact and Reception Shift
01:28:18
Speaker
And the visuals play so well into that. Yes. yeah Yeah. I gave the direction of five.
01:28:30
Speaker
Four. Five. Okay. That takes us to the it factor, the cultural significance of this movie.
01:28:45
Speaker
I've kind of already hinted at mine. So if someone else wants to go first, I could knock mine out of the way real quick here. um i don't really know how much. you know, it factor as like any kind of like the relevance. I haven't seen any movies that I don't know. I'm not sure if there are, how many there are since this movie came out that follows similar themes or same kind of like plot set, whatever.
01:29:08
Speaker
um So, I mean, yeah, it's great how it lends like a new aspect to the horror genre and how it kind of creates a whole new thing. Like you were talking about Jessica with bubblegum horror.
01:29:20
Speaker
ah know So it is kind of like sets itself that way. by kind of opening up the genre for other possibilities that way?
01:29:31
Speaker
every um i It depends on what time period we're talking about. If we're talking about when the movie came out, maximum I'd give it a two. I think the most that it did was have people going, oh, Megan Fox, she's showing her boobs on the cover of ah a movie poster. Like that's, I think that for a lot of people, that was the only reaction they had about this movie, even if if they even knew about it, because I don't think a lot of people even knew it existed.
01:29:55
Speaker
Now, um it depends on what corners of fandom you're in and where you're, where you're seeing things. Um, um a lot of like Olivia Rodrigo has a Jennifer's body reference in one of her videos from her first album.
01:30:11
Speaker
ah You have people like me writing novels where I'm intentionally trying to copy the, the, the feel of this movie and then put it on paper and see if I can do that and try to infuse whatever's going on there in a book. Like people are out there that have been influenced by this thing and are producing a lot of new stuff.
01:30:29
Speaker
And then you have a lot of people that are like, super, super, super excited about the idea that there might be a sequel. I'm not into that idea of whatever if they want to do it. I'll watch it a hundred times. um but But people are really into that. You they might do a sequel.
01:30:44
Speaker
um I can tell you that ah i every time I reference Jennifer's body, because I like like repost stories and stuff that have references to Jennifer's body, I get people messaging me back being like, I love that movie so much.
01:30:57
Speaker
um I sent out copies of the new prologue of Tastes Like Candy to people that requested it, and there's a Jennifer's body joke in there. um And i was my editor was like, should that be in there? Are people really going to get this? And I said, anybody who knows that movie is going to love that.
01:31:17
Speaker
And I will have them as a reader forever because they know that i am their same taste. Because, i don't know, Jennifer's Body is just one of those movies where if you're in, like I said, certain corners of fandom, certain corners of the internet, girl internet, gay internet, gay girl internet, and then the girlier ends of the horror spectrums,
01:31:38
Speaker
it's like revered as one of the best movies of all time. And I feel like more people are discovering it every single day. So I had no problem leaving a Jennifer's body joke in my book because it influenced it and people people should know about this movie if they don't.
01:31:52
Speaker
So at the time, two, nowadays, I'm gonna say it's more like a four, honestly, but not amongst everyone. I think that it very well could get a sequel If they kept the budget low, I think it could do well.
01:32:05
Speaker
um I think it would go straight to streaming if it did happen. I don't think it would be, I don't think i don't think that they would take the risk to put this in theaters again. I really don't. um But i don't know.
01:32:18
Speaker
Diablo Cody tried it again with Lisa Frankenstein. think Lisa Frankenstein was last year. It didn't hit for me the same way either. so She's still out there trying to do this. And it's, it, Lisa Frankenstein is also bubblegum horror, but it's, it's not, um it's not this at all.
01:32:36
Speaker
So at the time, almost no, no significance. Now for some people, it's like, it's the Mount Rushmore. It's on the Mount Rushmore of bitchy teen horror girl movies. You've got mean girls, not mean girls. You've got Heather's, you've got Jawbreaker, you've got this, and you've got Ginger Snaps.
01:32:53
Speaker
And those are the horror, the horror bitch, bitchy horror movies that are all bubblegum horror that all lean into this. And it's just, it's, it's my favorite thing in
Personal Enjoyment and Rewatchability
01:33:03
Speaker
the world. I love this style of film. I love really girly stuff that is also super fucking violent and kind of gross.
01:33:15
Speaker
I,
01:33:18
Speaker
I would have to say I'm between, well, what'd you give it, Jonathan? I'm at a three on it factor. Okay. That's where I'm at. And that mostly comes from I'm low. Like Jessica to said, I'm low if I look at when I was 19 and the movie came out.
01:33:38
Speaker
because I was aware of it, but didn't hear anybody talking about it. It was more...
01:33:44
Speaker
I saw it at the at the at family video. I saw it on the shelf. I saw posters for it. And it just didn't look like it definitely, the advertising definitely leaned into that kind of targeting male.
01:34:00
Speaker
Because I definitely thought it was more sexual than what we got. And I was like, I don't want to just watch like a hyper-sexualized horror movie that's not...
01:34:11
Speaker
It's sexual in a creepy way. like i don't want they They come off as teenager-y enough that I don't want to watch them doing any of these things. Yeah. well and I think I was looking at it as that movie Bad Teacher with Cameron Diaz. Oh, God.
01:34:29
Speaker
Yeah, because even the posters of... are somewhat similar, except one is a teacher and one's a student. And just, I i have that impression of this movie.
01:34:41
Speaker
And that was a totally wrong impression. I'm saying that now after having seen it. But that was the impression the marketing in 2009 gave the teenage me. And so it was of very little interest to me.
01:34:54
Speaker
And now years later, having watched it, I've definitely seen more and more talk about it. And I see how this has influenced other things, including your books. I see the connections of the vibe, you know, that atmosphere that's created in this film and seeing it replicated elsewhere.
01:35:15
Speaker
And that bubblegum horror, that's, that's what I'm going with bubblegum horror. Uh, is something I really enjoy because I do kind of get sucked in. If my wife is watching something drama, romantic, whatever, it does suck me in. I get like, Oh, this stupid person's back with them. Blah, blah, blah, blah.
01:35:37
Speaker
So like that little bit of it sucks me in. You add the horror into it and you have, Something I love mixed with something that gets my attention. and now I'm here for it.
01:35:49
Speaker
And so this, this movie works for that. And I see its influences. I do. I'm glad we're talking about it. Hopefully somebody finds this and we'll be encouraged to go check out the movie. Now.
01:36:04
Speaker
I, I want to see the, theatrical release now since we've talked about there are some differences to it. I want to see that one, but I quite enjoyed the unrated version of it, but I'm at a three for the it factor.
01:36:19
Speaker
So that takes it to our final
01:36:26
Speaker
enjoyment out of 10, which I don't think we're going to vary too differently on this one. Okay. We're all going be pretty... Jessica, do you want to tell us how much out of 10 you enjoy this movie? I'm going to give this a 10 out of 10.
01:36:43
Speaker
If you want to know how much I enjoy this movie... um Talking about how how much it influenced me. I'd also like to point out that Diablo Cody and our are very similar ages. So we grew up watching a lot of the same things and have a lot of the same influences.
01:36:55
Speaker
So ah the things that are in Jennifer's body that are in other horror movies, I know where she got them from. So I'm not talking about that. But like when I'm sitting there reading Tastes Like Candy, working on Tastes Like Candy, the world of Tastes Like Candy in my head looks like Jennifer's body.
01:37:10
Speaker
It has the cool blue lighting behind the girls. It has the like you know the killer in that movie in in that book. It reminds me of Jennifer in the movie a little bit where she's ah coming unhinged. and her she's starting She's very pretty, but she's starting to get ugly. like I have this the aesthetic of this film in my head when I work on those books.
01:37:34
Speaker
And I just read it. You have to read the new one. You have to read the new one. It's so absolutely bad. You sent me the new one. Did I? Did I send you the one? Okay. Okay. Well, I had the, you sent me like a reader version of it. Yeah. um Yeah. It has the prologue attached to it. Cause if that's the case, that's probably like the most finished version that people have read that have read it.
01:37:57
Speaker
um But yeah, that, that's what it looks like inside of my head. Tastes like candy to me looks like Jennifer's body with, almost terrifier level gore if anybody ever is ever curious what's going on in my head when i'm working on it that's how i feel so i just love the just like i always keep the movie running in the background whenever we do these things and we're at the scene we're at they're at the pool and jennifer's about to murder chip everything is like green and growing like mucky like gross and it's a gross it's but it's beautiful to look at yep
01:38:33
Speaker
So it's, it's, it's gross, but it's gorgeous. It's like the whole movie. The movie is gross, but gorgeous. Yeah.
01:38:41
Speaker
Jonathan, you want to go? Yeah. I'm a nine dude. I, I liked this movie a lot. The, the music made it great. The, the actors did really wonderful, great story.
01:38:51
Speaker
Definitely something I would recommend other people to watch and down to watch again.
Comparisons and Genre Appeal
01:38:55
Speaker
um yeah This movie was so much more than I thought it was going to be. Like I said, at the beginning, man, it's just, I had a totally different impression.
01:39:02
Speaker
And I was impressed by what I got versus my own brain being goofy. So, yeah. Nines, bro. So, I am actually... Jessica will be happy to this. I'm actually a tech in the And I knew you would be. You were right. Jessica's always right. It's my curse.
01:39:23
Speaker
It speaks to my little emo kid heart. i love... That part of it really sells it for me. I think if we took away the soundtrack and honestly, I don't know how I feel about the theatrical version because you said the emo kids are cut from it. And they're one of my favorite, like they're so tongue in cheek, hilarious. I lash onto them immediately. They are cliche. Yeah.
01:39:48
Speaker
emo kid funny. I love them. But this is one. So I normally try to score it after my first watch.
01:39:59
Speaker
And then on second watch, kind of formulate my argument a little bit more. And sometimes that second watch, I'm just like, man, I do not want to watch this again.
01:40:10
Speaker
I do not. Even if I like the movie, I'm like, I just can't. I don't want to put it on right now. And that's happened, I mean, most recently happened with Children of the Corn.
01:40:21
Speaker
but did not want to rewind Did not want to rewatch that. That's coming up on Halloween, um by the way, if you're listening to this. Last week's, oh, this is, I'm ashamed to admit it, spoiler alert, also for Halloween, I did not want to rewatch the Blair Witch Project to formulate my arguments for it.
01:40:41
Speaker
I didn't. a So that's ah that's a spoiler for my scores on that one. But this movie, I'm like, I need to put that on again. i want to put that on again. I'm going to put that on again. It's just I'm super busy, so it was background instead of focal point.
01:41:00
Speaker
But I was looking forward to watching this again. i was surprised i enjoyed it as much as I did. ah and not And that's mostly because of that initial impression it gave me all those years ago was not like this was something I would necessarily love.
01:41:19
Speaker
And it's so much better than whatever marketing at that time was doing. It's definitely worth the rewatch. It reminded me of and you're kind of talking about it with Diablo Cody And kind of her writing in that time was a big deal in movies.
01:41:42
Speaker
And I'm watching this and i was like, man, this reminds me of like the high school level drama stuff that we used to see with some of the stuff in the eighties that really stands out in his favorites now.
01:41:58
Speaker
in the horror genre, they balance those dynamics with the horror really well. And this stood up with those to me. I can't think of any examples off the top of my head. i'm good this This movie is extremely influenced by Heathers and Heathers was a satire on breakfast club, pretty in pink, dah, dah, dah, dah. And that's why this movie plays like that is because Heathers plays like that because it's a satire of those movies.
01:42:25
Speaker
This is influenced by Heathers, so it also plays like that. That's why my writing is like that. My writing is the way that it is because of Heathers. I write teen comedies, but there's murder involved, but Heathers is the backbone of everything. that every Every word that I write, Heathers is the background of it.
01:42:42
Speaker
I was going to make the John Hughes comparison, but I didn't. Yeah. Anytime i see high schoolers written realistically, I go to John Hughes first.
01:42:53
Speaker
Like that's the Breakfast Club comparison. Like you said, that's what I go to because – I feel like it's very hard. Disney Channel does not write high school kids realistically.
01:43:05
Speaker
So I can't say, oh, it's very high school musical of it because it's not. But this is an updated version of that. This is how I heard people talking to each other in 2009. I get it.
01:43:18
Speaker
So yeah, I was actually a 10 on this movie. So our final scores then. We are ready for the final scores. Jonathan. 45. forty five
01:43:31
Speaker
45 and jessica you don't need to do any math on yours do you it's it's whatever minus one because i didn't take away one for it factor what's the max 49 yeah 49 49 and i am minus three so gone you were ah forty five okay That makes our average a 47, which would round up to a five star movie.
01:44:02
Speaker
Wait, no, it would round. It run down to four and a half. I'm not good at rounding. My wife tells me this all the time. well I'm not good math. 47 round up.
01:44:17
Speaker
I think it rounds down because it's one away from five, but it's two away from ten seven. So I think it's four and a half. Anyways, four and a half. We need some other final scores in there to break that average and get a better idea because I am not good at math.
01:44:32
Speaker
So final thoughts, Jessica, your final words on this. Tell people where to go. Like I said. Your final version of Taste Like Candy. tell them where to get that to.
01:44:45
Speaker
Well, like I said, this movie imprinted on me the second I was sitting in the theater. I knew it was going to be something that hit me. And if you enjoy Jennifer's body, there's a decent chance you're going enjoy Tastes Like Candy as well. It's got a lot of the the teenage best friendiness, a lot of the best friend magic, a lot of the really nasty teenage girls doing horrible things to one another. But I also have a lot more gore.
01:45:06
Speaker
So... um ah But no, this is this is just a fantastic film. If you enjoy it and you don't know anything about Bubblegum, immediately go watch Ginger Snaps because it is a perfect, ah if you're doing a double feature, Ginger Snaps is the perfect movie to do a double feature with.
01:45:26
Speaker
If for some reason you listen to all of this and haven't seen Ginger vs. Body, but you have seen Ginger Snaps, same thing. Perfect. Go for that.
Closing Remarks and Promotions
01:45:35
Speaker
And this is a thriving genre.
01:45:37
Speaker
Go seek it out. look up hot pink horror, look up bubblegum horror. This is not the first movie by a long shot and it wasn't the last movie and there's all kinds of stuff out there, but nobody is grouping them together.
01:45:50
Speaker
So I guess that's probably going to be my next crusade.
01:45:56
Speaker
I like it. The phrase bubblegum horror came up in a marketing meeting for me. So I think it might be like me running around screaming, please go watch Ginger Snaps now. I think it needs to, you need to corner the market on bubblegum horror and just start the whole thing.
01:46:12
Speaker
Start the whole thing. john ta and everything You have final thoughts. Are you ready to read us out? ah did you but Jessica, did you tell us where to where to get your book?
01:46:25
Speaker
Oh, Tastes Like Candy is available for pre-order everywhere right now. ah It comes out September 9th. And if you would like to request it from your local library, that is a good thing for you to do because you will be able to do that for the first time with my books ever.
01:46:40
Speaker
Very exciting.
01:46:44
Speaker
I'm excited the library. I need to go request it at mine, even though I need to read it or even though I've already read it twice. I just want it there on the shelf. So thank you I need to go do that.
01:46:58
Speaker
All right, let's do this. and Okay, Jonathan, you ready? Yes, sir. Did you just see it show up? Yep. Okay. And that's going to do it for this episode of The Average. Huge thanks to Jessica.
01:47:14
Speaker
You might know her as Ivy in the past, but she is now Jessica Lacey. And you can find her on Instagram at Blood and Lacey.
01:47:26
Speaker
Thank you for joining us and bringing your insights on this one. Thank you for having me. Always a joy having you on. And if you haven't already, grab a copy of her debut horror novel. It's haunting, beautifully written, and full of that sharp visceral energy that you heard from her today.
01:47:41
Speaker
We've dropped ah the link in the description. go show that book some love.
01:47:48
Speaker
It's always a good time revisiting movies that were slept on when they dropped. And Jennifer's body is the poster child for that. Misunderstood, mismarketed, but still it endured. And maybe even more than that, it has evolved into something well-loved.
01:48:06
Speaker
What hit differently this time for me is how Jennifer's body looks at trauma, friendship, and what happens when people stop listening to girls unless they're screaming. There's power in that. And rage. And blood.
01:48:17
Speaker
So much blood. And maybe that's what makes this movie so timeless. Not just the killer one-liners or the demonic body horror, but the way it lets female anger take up space. It's unapologetic. It's messy. It's cathartic.
01:48:32
Speaker
If you've got thoughts of your own, and we know you do, drop them in the comments. DM us, or better yet, join us live for next month's episode. We want to hear your rating, your hot takes, and your most unhinged Jennifer Cech quotes.
01:48:45
Speaker
Until then... Keep your earbuds in, your knives sharp, and remember, sometimes the scariest monsters are the ones who were just hungry, lonely, or betrayed.
01:49:00
Speaker
Stay spooky, everyone. See you next time on The Average. Where the real review happens with your friends.