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Marketing in crypto is dead! With Winny.eth
136 Plays2 years ago
Winny is one of crypto twitter’s favorite faces. After working in fashion and as a dev, she joined shillr.xyz, a major web3 marketing agency and started making her strides in that part of our space.
She’s now the cofounder of Gossip Protocol and also a World Record holder for the most Ledgers own. Tune in to discover more.
Find Winny here: https://x.com/winnyeth
The Polymath Experience is a podcast owned by its listeners, join us here to be rewarded : https://discord.gg/PwYt39W95k
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Transcript
Introduction to Winnie and Web3 Journey
00:00:00
Speaker
All right.
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, everyone.
00:00:01
Speaker
This is the Polymath Experience and I am polymath.
00:00:05
Speaker
Today, I welcome a dear friend of mine.
00:00:08
Speaker
She's a people energizer.
00:00:10
Speaker
She's an inspirer.
00:00:12
Speaker
She's a force of nature and you probably know her as this boss woman who's worked with great brands, with great people, spoken on great stages.
00:00:20
Speaker
If you're in Web3 and you don't know about her yet, you're in the wrong Web3, my friend.
00:00:25
Speaker
She ranks very highly in my list of the queens of CT.
00:00:28
Speaker
Winnie, welcome to the show.
00:00:30
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:00:30
Speaker
It's so great to be here.
00:00:32
Speaker
Everything.
00:00:32
Speaker
Thank you.
00:00:33
Speaker
I really appreciate that.
00:00:33
Speaker
Thank you so much.
00:00:34
Speaker
Yeah, my pleasure.
00:00:35
Speaker
All right, let's get going.
00:00:38
Speaker
It's awesome because I know you, but I don't really know you.
00:00:41
Speaker
Who were you before you were Winnie?
00:00:55
Speaker
So yeah, Winnie is kind of a persona that I put on to make myself less scared of being the person that I wanted to be.
00:01:03
Speaker
So I've been in crypto coming up to about six years now, but only I was passive, very passive for the first three.
00:01:10
Speaker
So before that, I was, yeah, so I guess this kind of comes into the journey of how I got here.
00:01:17
Speaker
I got into crypto in 2017 when I was an unpaid fashion intern.
00:01:21
Speaker
living in New York.
00:01:22
Speaker
And a lot of my friends just made a bunch of money that December or whatever it was, or January.
00:01:28
Speaker
And I was like, this is really cool.
00:01:30
Speaker
I make no money because I'm an unpaid intern.
00:01:33
Speaker
Let's see if I can do something with
Blockchain's Influence on Fashion
00:01:36
Speaker
this.
00:01:36
Speaker
And I really just fell in love with it.
00:01:38
Speaker
And I really wanted to kind of understand the technology underneath it.
00:01:41
Speaker
And as I was falling out of love with the fashion industry, I started to fall in love with blockchain.
00:01:47
Speaker
And I was trying to see if how I could take this
00:01:50
Speaker
technology and these ideas and put it into the fashion industry to see if we could fix everything that I just saw was wrong with it.
00:01:58
Speaker
So from like supply chain to sampling to just so many issues.
00:02:03
Speaker
And so I went back to uni for my final year of my undergrad and I wrote my paper on the relationship of blockchain and fashion back in 2019.
00:02:13
Speaker
And my professor pretty much was like, I can see you're really enthusiastic about this, but this is the stupidest thing I've ever read.
00:02:20
Speaker
I think I got about 42% in that paper.
00:02:23
Speaker
And I always say that I'm really fueled by spite.
00:02:29
Speaker
So her saying that this is stupid pretty much just spurred me on to...
00:02:34
Speaker
dedicating my entire life to proving her right.
00:02:38
Speaker
So that was four years ago.
00:02:40
Speaker
Yeah, so I went fully into Web3 in probably about 2020 as I was finishing my master's.
00:02:45
Speaker
So yeah, I then went on to do my master's in business and computer science, just to kind of move away from faster and go into the more tech side of things.
00:02:53
Speaker
So I was in like trad tech for a while, like prop tech, building apps and seeing how I could bring blockchain into that.
00:02:59
Speaker
But then I moved to France, which has just been a huge facilitator for pushing me more into the crypto space.
00:03:07
Speaker
So I moved here in 2020.
00:03:09
Speaker
And yeah, I went fully, fully into crypto then.
Art and Crypto Collaborations
00:03:12
Speaker
And I founded, co-founded a company called Shiller.xyz back in 2021 during the bull market with some of the most incredible guys I've ever known, some of the most hard workers and intelligent people.
00:03:24
Speaker
And just, they just had such a great understanding of the space.
00:03:27
Speaker
And it really was such an honor to like grow myself in the space alongside people like Fungible and Barnardo.
00:03:32
Speaker
They are just amazing.
00:03:34
Speaker
Incredible, incredible leaders in this space.
00:03:37
Speaker
While I was there alongside that, I was a co-curator at a gallery in Prague called Crypto Portal, which was just an amazing way to give back during this time to artists, to, you know, be able to show their work on the other side of the world for most of them and not have to deal with, you know,
00:03:52
Speaker
travel fee like transportation fees and customs and all of that just being like hey you want your art to be in a gallery tomorrow cool send me the ipfs and we can get it up straight away which was it was just phenomenal and then yeah following that i was working alongside jess wiseman who's an incredible artist uh helping her build out her project and yeah i left that a couple of months ago because you know the market is how it is and then yeah i guess that's
00:04:18
Speaker
more of the more of what I've done instead of less of the who Winnie is.
00:04:21
Speaker
That's okay.
00:04:22
Speaker
We're going to back up.
00:04:24
Speaker
We're going to unpack.
00:04:26
Speaker
We're here for a while, so no sweat.
00:04:29
Speaker
Do you remember when you were between fashion and the blockchain, do you remember that moment where you were like, aha, this is the future?
00:04:39
Speaker
Do you remember what triggered it?
00:04:42
Speaker
The thing that really pushed it for me was, I was super interested in it back in.
00:04:47
Speaker
like 2017, 2018, but it was 2019 that was just like the, holy shit, this is everything.
00:04:55
Speaker
I was a boots on the ground researcher at London Fashion Week for this writer, mostly on sustainability, because that was the main reason that I wanted to use blockchain.
00:05:05
Speaker
I was super into that.
00:05:06
Speaker
I still am, but very passionate about it in my early 20s.
Mentorship and Women in Web3
00:05:10
Speaker
And I went to a talk by Brooke Roberts Islam, Megan McDonnell, and The Fabricant.
00:05:17
Speaker
So this was back when The Fabricant was two employees back in 2019, and they did a talk about
00:05:23
Speaker
digital fashion they were just about to sell the first digital piece of clothing and I just sat and watched this talk and I was just in awe and I was like this is this makes everything that I've been trying to find companies I've been trying to find this is it this makes so much sense
00:05:38
Speaker
And I love it because I still have the DM that I sent them back in 2019 in February being like, are you guys hired?
00:05:47
Speaker
Do you have internships available?
00:05:49
Speaker
I want to come work for you guys.
00:05:50
Speaker
This is just everything.
00:05:51
Speaker
This is no one at my uni has done anything like this.
00:05:53
Speaker
This is what I want to do.
00:05:56
Speaker
And now to be,
00:05:57
Speaker
be friends with the team and to just see everything that they've done over the last four
Digital Identity and Personal Branding
00:06:02
Speaker
couple of years, four years.
00:06:02
Speaker
It's just been an honor to be for them, for me to have them as my, for them to have me too.
00:06:09
Speaker
You can, I'll say it for you.
00:06:11
Speaker
For them to just be the light that led me through into this, into this metaverse.
00:06:17
Speaker
So yeah, that's, I would say it's them.
00:06:19
Speaker
Yeah.
00:06:20
Speaker
Oh, that's awesome.
00:06:21
Speaker
It's really cool to see like people having good mentors, people who they can look up to who can who can transmit that to them.
00:06:28
Speaker
Man, I wish everyone had that because it would make things a lot easier because it's, it's, it's a very appealing industry for a lot of people will we all see the appeal sometimes for the wrong reasons, but it's it's really hard to, yeah, to navigate.
00:06:43
Speaker
Oh, for sure.
00:06:43
Speaker
I think I'm incredibly lucky with my mentorship.
00:06:45
Speaker
And I have some, especially surrounded by such incredible women as well, you know, that have really been able to guide me through the last few years.
00:06:52
Speaker
I mean, like, trying to start, I feel like, oh, yeah, starting companies and having women a few years older than me who have been through it, just being so willing with their time.
00:07:01
Speaker
So, and yeah, I do wish other people did have this, but I'm so grateful for it.
00:07:06
Speaker
Man, I'm a bit jealous because I know there's probably some weird sides to being a woman in Web3, which is like something that I always love to talk about with women, actually.
00:07:16
Speaker
But there's also a lot of empathy in the clique of women in Web3, which there's not amongst men.
00:07:24
Speaker
I know.
00:07:24
Speaker
And I do think that is a shame.
00:07:25
Speaker
I know I completely agree.
00:07:26
Speaker
And there should be.
00:07:27
Speaker
Like, I love how we have those boys clubs.
00:07:28
Speaker
So boys club for women is such an incredible thing.
00:07:30
Speaker
But there are guys in it as well as allies.
00:07:33
Speaker
And I think that's just really great that we're all kind of winning together.
00:07:36
Speaker
And I do have, I have such incredible strong male friendships in this space as well.
00:07:39
Speaker
And it's really great that I can, that they can express like, you know, vulnerabilities and problems and, you know, when they get down bad, like it's, it's really great that I think we have such an incredible group, especially of people who are left now that there is that support system still there.
00:07:55
Speaker
I mean, of course there is some, there is still some toxic mentalities, but that is just part of, that's part of life and that's part of everything.
00:08:02
Speaker
So yeah.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, I think especially like, you know, we've spoken briefly about this before, just finding people that and just, yeah, having these people around that just make it a little bit easier.
00:08:12
Speaker
Makes this space a little bit more bearable.
00:08:15
Speaker
When you see the event on your calendar that comes up, you're like, oh, a breath of fresh air, a little bit of sunlight in my week.
00:08:23
Speaker
Yeah, those are important.
00:08:25
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:08:26
Speaker
Okay, do you want to go back to who you, how, when he came to be?
00:08:30
Speaker
Before crypto, you would not see me public speaking.
00:08:33
Speaker
You would not see me doing anything remotely online.
00:08:37
Speaker
out of like, I wouldn't say like out of my comfort zone.
00:08:40
Speaker
Like, yeah, I did some things, but like, but just not, I wasn't who I wanted to be.
00:08:44
Speaker
Like the way I grew up was I grew up in a really sheltered environment on a really small island that focused very much on finance.
00:08:51
Speaker
And that was your path.
00:08:54
Speaker
Like my, even when I wanted to study fashion, I remember my, um, high school mentor, whatever.
00:09:00
Speaker
I was like, that's like, come on, be realistic.
00:09:03
Speaker
be real and like that's what they said to me and I was like that's being like just that's just the baseline of what I want to achieve in life I wanted like I wanted to be a fashion designer turns out I didn't actually enjoy fashion design that much or the industry like it was just a bit it was actually really really horrible but I had no autonomy in my younger years I was a swimmer my mom was my coach I was just forced into this routine and to be this person consistently and
00:09:29
Speaker
for someone else and for just, you know, it was always being the gold, like, you know, I don't say like a golden child, but you had to look a certain way, be a certain, just be this toy.
00:09:38
Speaker
And
00:09:40
Speaker
When I moved, yeah, when I created Winnie, I was like, oh my gosh, I've even been able to choose my name.
00:09:45
Speaker
I've been able to choose absolutely everything that I want to do.
00:09:49
Speaker
I can wake up every day and every choice that I make now is my own.
00:09:52
Speaker
So I was like, okay, cool.
00:09:54
Speaker
I'm scared of public speaking.
00:09:55
Speaker
Let's get over that.
00:09:55
Speaker
I'm scared of this.
00:09:56
Speaker
Let's get over that.
00:09:57
Speaker
It was just a way to remove myself from myself and create a persona and then be able to attach that to a digital identity and then turn it into almost like a real thing because I feel like I'm very...
00:10:09
Speaker
like the whole idea of the digital identity and the social media world that we live in right now.
00:10:13
Speaker
And like, we can talk about, probably talk about this in a bit as well about the decentralized media.
00:10:18
Speaker
And I just thought it was so important.
00:10:20
Speaker
And then like, I had like the Winnie dot ETH and then that just, everything just seemed to fall into creating this personal brand, which then became a personality.
00:10:29
Speaker
So it's, people will find it really funny how I can be two different people when I'm,
00:10:33
Speaker
just myself and people are calling me like you know my government name and then Winnie is a different person and I really enjoy that separation because it just allows me to have friendships that I do online but then when they get deeper these people then call me by my real name and it's really fun as well to be with my friends like that who know when to switch they know when to call me Winnie and when it's yeah it was just a way to not be scared of being the person that I wanted to be
00:11:02
Speaker
I love this.
00:11:04
Speaker
I absolutely love this.
00:11:05
Speaker
And it kind of touches base on something that I wanted to ask you because there's this, like you briefly have heard that I'm a freak when it comes to like human psychology and personal development.
00:11:15
Speaker
Like that's what I, that's one of the things that I'm extremely passionate about.
00:11:18
Speaker
And there's this thing relating to the ego, which is the part of the self that you project basically onto others.
00:11:27
Speaker
And because the mind kind of has this capability of creating different personas, creating different
00:11:32
Speaker
identities.
00:11:33
Speaker
And in a lot of cases, it kind of makes people miserable because they project something, which is a projection.
00:11:42
Speaker
It's not like their true self, their essence.
00:11:45
Speaker
And Winnie, what I see online is like this, what I was saying, like this boss woman, strong, like inspiring.
00:11:54
Speaker
And you give a lot of energy and people get excited about it, get energized with it, get inspired.
00:12:01
Speaker
But behind this, there's also like the person I've discovered who's extremely kind, extremely empathetic.
00:12:07
Speaker
I was a bit shocked when I discovered the extent of your human values because, you know, you create, we also create our own image of who a person is.
00:12:16
Speaker
And like this didn't, did not necessarily shine online.
00:12:20
Speaker
How do you deal with that?
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's almost very much like a self-preservation thing.
00:12:25
Speaker
So yeah.
00:12:27
Speaker
Actually, I had a really horrible message from someone a couple of weeks ago by someone who was like, you never let anyone too close to you, which is why I love having friendships like I do with you where we can have those conversations and get a bit deeper.
00:12:40
Speaker
But there is a way that I do, as everyone does, I have my trauma.
00:12:44
Speaker
And it is a way I use like humor to kind of mask that.
00:12:47
Speaker
And I just...
00:12:48
Speaker
And I'm very open online.
00:12:49
Speaker
I'm very personable and very public with a lot of my life, but it's all very surface level.
00:12:56
Speaker
And it's because I don't, I want to keep the piece that I've created for myself, mine.
00:13:02
Speaker
But yeah, this, I got to, oh yeah, actually I won't get into that.
00:13:05
Speaker
But that was just like being called out like that.
00:13:07
Speaker
It was like, yeah, I know that I do that.
00:13:09
Speaker
And I think when I put myself out there like that, people feel like they are entitled.
00:13:13
Speaker
Entitled.
00:13:14
Speaker
to the other half of me that I want to keep for myself and to the people that I care about and the people in my real life.
00:13:20
Speaker
So I like, oh, just like not even real life, just outside of the surface level that is Twitter.
00:13:24
Speaker
Like I'm tweeting to 20,000 people and it's probably about seven, but it's, you know, you're tweeting to thousands of people every day.
00:13:32
Speaker
It's like, I'm not going to allow you, if I let everyone have access to, to a side of me that is preserved, then that's just when everything starts to fall apart.
00:13:41
Speaker
And you shouldn't be expected to.
00:13:43
Speaker
Like it is, it is completely okay to be,
Gossip Protocol and Decentralized Media
00:13:47
Speaker
I think as long as you're happy with the person that you're, that you're presenting with what you're showing to the world, it's all that matters.
00:13:54
Speaker
If you're showing a side of you to the world that is not actually you, and that makes you miserable, then it's,
00:13:59
Speaker
there's something, there's a problem, there's something to deal with, but that's not the case for you.
00:14:03
Speaker
And so, yeah, there should not be any entitlement of anyone to get a version of you that they want instead of the version that you want to get them.
00:14:14
Speaker
You can have that one, but just don't project it.
00:14:16
Speaker
Don't project it on me.
00:14:17
Speaker
Yeah.
00:14:18
Speaker
You've, you've done well.
00:14:20
Speaker
Cause what has been two and a half years of Winnie?
00:14:23
Speaker
Yeah, I would say so.
00:14:25
Speaker
What do people get wrong when it comes to building an audience online?
00:14:28
Speaker
I really wish I knew how I got an audience.
00:14:36
Speaker
I think it was because I definitely, well, I haven't grown.
00:14:39
Speaker
My following really hasn't grown.
00:14:41
Speaker
My audience hasn't grown in the past year.
00:14:43
Speaker
That's for sure.
00:14:44
Speaker
I think I definitely grew a lot with, with the previous bull market.
00:14:48
Speaker
And when I was at Shilla, like that was definitely a, like a definite facilitating factor for all of that.
00:14:54
Speaker
But I'm not sure of growing.
00:14:56
Speaker
I think,
00:14:58
Speaker
Oh my gosh.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it is just toxic positivity, I would say.
00:15:03
Speaker
My biggest ick when it comes to people trying to like engagement.
00:15:10
Speaker
Oh yeah, toxic positivity and just copying what everyone else is doing.
00:15:14
Speaker
So I guess that just falls under the entire umbrella of being inauthentic.
00:15:19
Speaker
So I guess when it comes to myself...
00:15:21
Speaker
it's like Winnie isn't a fake persona.
00:15:25
Speaker
It's still a real, it's still me, but it's just, you know, it's just a different font, I guess.
00:15:33
Speaker
Or just like in Italian.
00:15:35
Speaker
Or it's a part of the perspective.
00:15:37
Speaker
It's the, yeah, it's the part that you decided to show up.
00:15:39
Speaker
But it's, yeah, it's the path that I decided to show.
00:15:41
Speaker
And like, with that, I'm still like, I will cause problems.
00:15:44
Speaker
I love causing problems online.
00:15:46
Speaker
That is one thing that I will never stop doing.
00:15:48
Speaker
It's, but I would like, I will never be, I'm a really, I'd like to consider myself an incredibly positive person.
00:15:54
Speaker
I consider myself incredibly happy.
00:15:55
Speaker
I do love my silly little life, but I will never do it in a toxic way.
00:16:00
Speaker
Like it's all about balance.
00:16:01
Speaker
I will tweet something incredibly wonderful, happy and motivating.
00:16:05
Speaker
But then within two hours, I will bully a bored ape.
00:16:08
Speaker
Like, you know, it's all about, it's all about
00:16:10
Speaker
It's all about balance.
00:16:13
Speaker
So I think it is just, yeah, the lack of authenticity that we do find in this space where people are just trying to be, trying to be a character without it being authentic to themselves.
00:16:23
Speaker
That's, that's probably spot on.
00:16:26
Speaker
So replace toxic positivity with balanced negativity or targeted negativity, maybe.
00:16:32
Speaker
Intentional negativity.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:16:36
Speaker
The last guest we had on the show was Function.
00:16:39
Speaker
And he built a lot of his audience on the back of being a dick at times.
00:16:45
Speaker
I have been just unblocked him.
00:16:48
Speaker
What?
00:16:48
Speaker
I've only just unblocked him.
00:16:51
Speaker
Oh, he's great.
00:16:52
Speaker
I like the guy a lot.
00:16:53
Speaker
He's really...
00:16:55
Speaker
Yeah, he's really true to himself, which I think is necessary.
00:16:58
Speaker
And it's something that I personally, I really cared about metrics when I was younger.
00:17:05
Speaker
I try to do something on Instagram.
00:17:06
Speaker
Like there was this time I trained as a yoga teacher, which you probably don't know about me.
00:17:11
Speaker
And so I was a yoga teacher for a couple of years.
00:17:13
Speaker
that's when I was at the peak chasing metrics and wanting to be a guru and wanting to say the things that I thought would like do well online and not being myself at all.
00:17:25
Speaker
I was completely like in that identity, but unlike you, I was like,
00:17:31
Speaker
not conscious of it at all and it doesn't work it just doesn't work and now I don't grow still on my twitter but it's fine I'm being myself and I'm having like awesome interactions with people and and I think that it's what uh matters the most like I get to do what I love I get to connect with people like you to work on projects or to have on on on the podcast and it's
00:17:56
Speaker
Eventually, I wish someone would create a social media where the validation system was based on this instead of like quantitative.
00:18:06
Speaker
Can you build that?
00:18:07
Speaker
Can you do that?
00:18:08
Speaker
So this is one thing that I'm getting really interested in, and this is something that I'm building out with LDF at the moment, actually.
00:18:15
Speaker
So this kind of ties into all of this is understanding social metrics and what the kind of data that we collect.
00:18:22
Speaker
It's just like, why is our success of like a social following either like
00:18:28
Speaker
Just like your follow account or how many tweets that likes you get on a tweet, because also none of that is genuine.
00:18:32
Speaker
You can bot all of that.
00:18:34
Speaker
And also like, you know, gosh, there's like, I'm trying to like order my thoughts right now surrounding that.
00:18:44
Speaker
No rush.
00:18:45
Speaker
It's really interesting.
00:18:47
Speaker
And I think the whole idea of decentralized social media is going to play into this hugely in the coming months, coming years.
00:18:55
Speaker
We're seeing a massive uptick in that.
00:18:57
Speaker
And it's not going to be from anything financial either, I don't think.
00:19:00
Speaker
It's like, how can we understand what it means to be successful through socials and growth without arbitrary numbers?
00:19:09
Speaker
Objective.
00:19:10
Speaker
Yeah.
00:19:11
Speaker
I want to know more now.
00:19:13
Speaker
Should I tell you what I'm working on?
00:19:14
Speaker
Yeah, please.
00:19:15
Speaker
Because I was going to get to that at some point, but you might as well.
00:19:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:19:19
Speaker
So we're actually building out this.
00:19:23
Speaker
So the name is called Gossip Protocol.
00:19:25
Speaker
So I'm sure you know what a Gossip Protocol is, but like it's not.
00:19:28
Speaker
You probably want to explain again because not everyone does, I think.
00:19:31
Speaker
It's a very specific type of protocol, which is like peer-to-peer communication that takes place between computers and like digital devices.
00:19:40
Speaker
So it's actually related to a type of communication where data is transmitted through different nodes and
00:19:47
Speaker
We're taking this name and this concept and we're applying it to how we are doing content and how we are doing education in this space.
00:19:58
Speaker
Gossip Protocol is an exercise in incubating a brand worthy of the mainstream internet.
00:20:05
Speaker
but on Web3 socials.
00:20:07
Speaker
So what we want to do is we want to disprove the notion that by utilizing crypto, you forfeit distribution.
00:20:13
Speaker
And we'll prove firsthand that leveraging Web3 native tools to deliver higher quality content that can break out of crypto.
00:20:21
Speaker
So we're creating this content platform
00:20:25
Speaker
driven media hub that makes its home on both like webto and like desos with using like a series of campaigns so like you know whether we have a podcast that is an in-person video podcast where we're talking to like our favorite founders that are building out social like you know building out platforms products to target decentralized content creators and web3 content creators and that kind of thing and also doing like
00:20:51
Speaker
Obviously, we're calling it In the Trenches, where we'll be at Berlin Blockchain Week, ETH Global, doing boots on the ground, in-person interviews and stuff, and then seeing how we can use in-person verifiable credentials and then use lens protocols to see how we can do
00:21:08
Speaker
If you're in a video, we can look at how we can do royalty basis off that.
00:21:11
Speaker
And just, we really want to see how we can push the boundaries of the centralized social media and content.
00:21:18
Speaker
So we've actually formed what we're calling the centralized social stack of already existing tools for proof, for governance, for community.
00:21:25
Speaker
So all of our friends like Disco, Jockrace, Gold, Unlonely to understand like how these tools actually work together and how our industry work with these tools.
00:21:35
Speaker
Because one thing that I've really noticed is that a lot of people who are Web3 content creators aren't actually Web3 content creators.
00:21:42
Speaker
They're just people who create content about Web3.
00:21:45
Speaker
So, and I've been like reaching out to them and be like, Hey, like you're, you're making all these videos, you're putting them on YouTube.
00:21:51
Speaker
You're claiming to be an advisor for web three.
00:21:54
Speaker
What's your lens?
00:21:55
Speaker
Are you on Diso?
00:21:56
Speaker
You know, have you used like, you know, have you thought about storing your content using, are we even like, what's your views on life pit?
00:22:03
Speaker
Like none of them know what any of these tools are.
00:22:07
Speaker
So, and I just think the hypocrisy that we have in this space right now to be like, Oh, I'm a web three content grade.
00:22:12
Speaker
I'm like, no, you're not, you're not.
00:22:14
Speaker
Like you're laughing.
00:22:16
Speaker
You're a wave surfer.
00:22:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:22:19
Speaker
You're lying.
00:22:22
Speaker
And that's why I think a lot of content creators are struggling to grow because it's not real.
00:22:27
Speaker
So what me and what LDF and I are doing, you know, it's we want to be the users.
00:22:32
Speaker
We want to show people and create a blueprint and be like, this is how you can use the centralized social and put it into your stack and actually move this industry forward.
00:22:41
Speaker
Because
00:22:42
Speaker
Like people say, oh, the industry, we're not going to have mainstream adoption until XYZ.
00:22:47
Speaker
I'm like, no, we're not going to have mainstream adoption until we have industry, inner industry adoption.
00:22:53
Speaker
How are we expecting people to be using the tools that we are making if we're not using them ourselves and if we don't even know about them?
00:22:59
Speaker
Yeah.
Passion vs. Profit in Web3
00:23:00
Speaker
So if we can create a platform where founders can come on and speak about the products that they're building and we can actively use them, integrate them into our stack and show our audience, this is how you do this, then that's going to be, I just don't understand why we're not doing this.
00:23:16
Speaker
Why are we not excited whenever a new product comes out about, you know, even if it's not like we don't agree with it or it's not like the way that we want the blockchain to be used?
00:23:26
Speaker
Who cares?
00:23:26
Speaker
It's permissionless.
00:23:27
Speaker
Let people do it.
00:23:27
Speaker
Let's experiment.
00:23:28
Speaker
It's the bear market.
00:23:29
Speaker
Let's have so much fun with what we can do with smart contracts, with platforms.
00:23:34
Speaker
Let's do it now before people can see it and yell at us, you know?
00:23:37
Speaker
Like, I love Frontech.
00:23:39
Speaker
I think Frontech is amazing for trying to do something that...
00:23:43
Speaker
Yeah, it's been done with like BitCloud or whatever before, but they've done it differently.
00:23:47
Speaker
And also they've experimented.
00:23:49
Speaker
They've tried.
00:23:50
Speaker
Like that is just what I get so excited about is people who are, even though we are so sad and so down right now, people are still out here trying.
00:23:57
Speaker
And it's the people who aren't doing anything.
00:24:00
Speaker
The people who are just like sitting around tweeting, sending Ben.eth are the ones yelling that this isn't the way to do things.
00:24:09
Speaker
I'm like, okay, then you do it.
00:24:11
Speaker
What are you doing?
00:24:12
Speaker
Like, it's, I could go on forever.
00:24:16
Speaker
Be the woman in the arena.
00:24:17
Speaker
I agree.
00:24:18
Speaker
But you know where the problem is?
00:24:20
Speaker
The problem is that with every single bull market, the main message to people from within, to the people without, is come in, you're going to make a shit ton of money.
00:24:31
Speaker
And then they do, and then they lose everything.
00:24:33
Speaker
And then everyone leaves.
00:24:35
Speaker
And I don't know, I think in a bear market, you get two people, you get the bitter people who hold on as long as they can.
00:24:41
Speaker
And you get the builders who are not vocal, who are like down in the trenches doing their thing.
00:24:46
Speaker
That's why there's no response to, there's no response to innovation.
00:24:51
Speaker
Yeah.
00:24:52
Speaker
Oh, a hundred percent.
00:24:53
Speaker
The fact that the MO is,
00:24:56
Speaker
for a lot of people in this space is just money.
00:24:58
Speaker
Like I fell in love with this space for just, yeah, I fell in love as a young 20 year old who wanted to change the fashion industry.
00:25:07
Speaker
And now I've grown within it.
00:25:10
Speaker
I just see so many different applications and that's what excites me.
00:25:12
Speaker
You get to wake up every day and try and solve a new problem.
00:25:16
Speaker
And it's like, I've always said, like focus on the MO and the bags will come.
00:25:20
Speaker
Like why, if you're gonna, if you lead with trying to make money,
00:25:25
Speaker
you're going to be so miserable.
00:25:26
Speaker
Especially if you're not a professional.
00:25:29
Speaker
Exactly.
00:25:29
Speaker
Yeah, like I'm not a trader.
00:25:31
Speaker
God, like if I'm sad, like I haven't, I don't think I've traded NFTs in months because, or even like just shit, I didn't even do shit coin trading this season because I'm terrible at it.
00:25:43
Speaker
I don't have enough of a degen brain to like understand how that kind of stuff works.
00:25:49
Speaker
So I'm,
00:25:50
Speaker
I don't want to waste my money doing that when I'm like, cool, I can now invest this into something else and invest it in something that's got a long-term plan, which is myself, instead of trying to make the quick batch.
00:26:02
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:26:03
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:26:05
Speaker
Everyone's trying to just make this quick buck, and once they make it, yeah, they're going to fuck off.
00:26:09
Speaker
I never really plan on doing that, mostly because I don't have...
00:26:13
Speaker
any expand, like I don't have transferable skills at this point.
00:26:18
Speaker
I think I'm just so deep in this industry that it's like, I can only work here now.
00:26:22
Speaker
I'm here, I'm stuck, you know?
00:26:25
Speaker
I disagree, but I won't express that disagreement because we need you here.
00:26:29
Speaker
So don't go anywhere.
00:26:31
Speaker
Can you just explain what Gossip Protocol does for a simple user like me?
00:26:39
Speaker
Like, what is it going to change?
00:26:40
Speaker
What am I going to get using your DAP protocol?
00:26:44
Speaker
So it's...
00:26:47
Speaker
It's just the kind of, the term is kind of like this, like the overarching entity as such.
00:26:54
Speaker
Wait, I have my little, I'm just going through my little notes because.
00:26:58
Speaker
You're cheating.
00:26:59
Speaker
I am cheating.
00:27:00
Speaker
I should have said, I should have said no notes.
00:27:03
Speaker
It's permissionless.
00:27:08
Speaker
So yeah, I guess it's just like on the surface level, it's, you know, it's just about understanding how you will interact with content across like web two and web three.
00:27:17
Speaker
But the main thing that we really want to see is adoption and understanding of protocols and products.
00:27:22
Speaker
So seeing like you as an audience and your journey
00:27:25
Speaker
into like, you know, if you get to discover something and now start using something new, like that's enhanced your experience within this industry.
00:27:32
Speaker
So one thing that we're really excited to implement is verifiable credentials.
00:27:36
Speaker
So, you know, working with Cisco to implement proofs.
00:27:40
Speaker
So these are off-chain, this is off-chain data.
00:27:44
Speaker
So, but it gives you like a little badge, a little gold star, if you will, for, you know, if you watch a podcast on chain, that means you can then get a little proof to say, cool, I watched this.
00:27:54
Speaker
I learned about this.
00:27:55
Speaker
I, and that just shows your like involvement with, with the brand.
00:28:00
Speaker
And it's another way to kind of get those metrics of like, so followers don't mean much.
00:28:06
Speaker
It's like, okay, who's interacting, who's actually interacting with the content.
00:28:10
Speaker
who's so kind of just seeing to see that like seeing that and then also yeah just seeing how people interact with with these protocols and with these companies and also being also bringing the one thing that's really important to me is this the side of humanity podcasts are great podcasts are so fun but like it's always this way we're always speaking to a screen like i'd love for us to sit over a coffee and have this conversation that's exactly what we want to do we want to be with
00:28:34
Speaker
like these founders who are also like, you know, our friends.
Anonymity and Trust in Web3
00:28:37
Speaker
And I want to sit in a room with them with, you can't see the mics, we're having dinner, we're having a glass of wine, and we're having a conversation person to person.
00:28:46
Speaker
And it also allows you to have that
00:28:49
Speaker
human interaction where you can see people's body languages together and actually just be able to bring a bit of humanity to.
00:28:56
Speaker
And also that I think that just allows us to trust these companies more, trust these protocols.
00:29:00
Speaker
If you can see someone like me or like us two, and then we were just sat and it's filming us and we're having this conversation.
00:29:08
Speaker
And I just think that just gives that extra layer to, uh,
00:29:12
Speaker
making this content so much more consumable and especially to people outside of the crypto space as well.
00:29:18
Speaker
So it's like, oh shit, these are actually all real human beings and not scammers.
00:29:22
Speaker
And this is how we want to, this is how we want to kind of, yeah, move it forward.
00:29:26
Speaker
So yeah.
00:29:26
Speaker
And you're right.
00:29:27
Speaker
It's not about, it's not just about the content.
00:29:29
Speaker
It's about like what each person is building.
00:29:32
Speaker
And there's,
00:29:33
Speaker
I'm still, okay, the conflict is a little bit over, but I had this conflict between anonymity or not anonymity because I love the concept of anonymity building anonymously because ego is a big thing.
00:29:47
Speaker
Ego is what gets people like Ben.
00:29:50
Speaker
who fuck up lives of hundreds or thousands of people and, and only out of pure one being completely demented and the other one having a huge ego.
00:30:03
Speaker
And in my own experience of building anonymously for a year,
00:30:08
Speaker
it removed some of that.
00:30:10
Speaker
It was like, yeah, I'm just doing what needs to be done.
00:30:13
Speaker
I'm not doing it for the image I want to project.
00:30:17
Speaker
I don't want to do it to be seen.
00:30:20
Speaker
And it kind of pushed me to be better and to do better.
00:30:24
Speaker
But then again,
00:30:26
Speaker
I like myself and I like talking to people and people like talking to me.
00:30:32
Speaker
And it's so important as a founder to show that, to show your face and to be visible, to have the, what you're saying, like body language is everything.
00:30:43
Speaker
I used to shoot these with the mask on.
00:30:47
Speaker
And then at some point, thank God, Snapchat removed their web browser and I was using hologram for a bit, but then it, it kind of, um, start started to not work anymore.
00:30:59
Speaker
And then I did my first episode without it.
00:31:01
Speaker
And it was life changing because the person sees like the little, like micro smiles and the face moving and the, and, and the conversation is different.
00:31:12
Speaker
The relationship is different and, and it brings up a whole, a whole new layer of,
00:31:17
Speaker
of a human connection.
00:31:19
Speaker
So I, I celebrate what you're doing and I can't wait to be on your show.
00:31:23
Speaker
I can't wait to have you.
00:31:25
Speaker
One thing that I find, this is something that's fascinated me for since being in the space.
00:31:28
Speaker
Cause I started off as obviously I'm like pseudo, pseudo anonymous, but I started off like not doxxed.
00:31:35
Speaker
And one thing that I found really fascinating was when we founded Shilla, there were six co-founders and obviously we were all online, all online names or whatever.
00:31:45
Speaker
We never had a single video call for the first four, four or five months that we worked together.
00:31:51
Speaker
We only did voice calls and we managed to build quite a successful company.
00:31:56
Speaker
It's still, I would say quite, it's still going phenomenally.
00:31:59
Speaker
The boys are doing a fantastic job.
00:32:01
Speaker
We built an entire company having never seen each other's faces or knowing each other's real names.
00:32:06
Speaker
It was nuts.
00:32:08
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:32:09
Speaker
The first public speaking that I ever did was at an NFT London event, not NFT NYC London, like the one put on by the NFT by the London just crowd of people because we couldn't go to NFT NYC in New York that year because of the COVID travel restrictions.
00:32:28
Speaker
So within like two weeks, they put on a conference.
00:32:29
Speaker
It was amazing.
00:32:30
Speaker
And I think the talk that we did was about building trust in a trustless system.
00:32:34
Speaker
So how can we as a team who work as a team anonymously, then work with companies who then trust us still anonymously to then translate their message and do growth to our communities, either anonymously or pseudo anonymous.
00:32:52
Speaker
Like it was just fascinating to see how you could build a structure of trust.
00:32:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:32:59
Speaker
Why did you guys weigh so heavily on anonymity?
00:33:03
Speaker
I think it just comes with the territory, I guess.
00:33:07
Speaker
I'm not sure.
00:33:07
Speaker
It was never really like, we just never questioned it.
00:33:10
Speaker
It was like, yeah, this just is so, this just makes sense.
00:33:12
Speaker
This is how we're doing it.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:14
Speaker
I mean, it took a lot of toll, like it took a massive toll on me, I guess, because I was the only one who was very publicly doxxed.
00:33:22
Speaker
So that just meant I was doing all the IRL outreach.
00:33:26
Speaker
I can't complain.
00:33:26
Speaker
I got to travel so much during 2021, just,
00:33:29
Speaker
it was for work obviously but yeah i just got to meet such incredible people so it worked out great for me but like another other boys get to do it as well but yeah it was an interesting time yeah are they docs as well now they're docs no i don't think any of them are still like i mean they go to conferences and they their faces they will speak to people like no photos kind of thing online yeah
00:33:53
Speaker
Which is amazing that they managed to maintain that because most people have... Insane, two years.
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, most people have given up at this point.
00:34:00
Speaker
Or just, you know, you've got... I feel like sometimes when you reach a point, you've got to, but it depends on what your goal is, I guess.
00:34:06
Speaker
For me, I really love public speaking and being very personable.
00:34:11
Speaker
So I guess that just came with my territory.
00:34:14
Speaker
But I can understand with some other people that that's just not their MO.
00:34:17
Speaker
I look forward to having exactly what you were talking about at a wider scale of having that track record of what you've been doing on chain to build your online identity because it's an investment in time.
00:34:33
Speaker
It's a social investment.
00:34:34
Speaker
And I think it's the only, the number of transactions that you've done is not enough.
00:34:40
Speaker
For me, like, you know, the DGN score types of apps, it's not enough.
00:34:45
Speaker
But if we add a social layer to this, then we can actually, it will amount to like months of people's lives, years of people's lives, and they will be a lot less incentivized to having nefarious behavior because there will be a track record, but we don't have that yet.
00:35:02
Speaker
And so it's still a little bit
00:35:05
Speaker
hard to trust people only because there's blockchain.
00:35:10
Speaker
It's not like just a magic, it's not a magical technology.
00:35:13
Speaker
It needs to be connected to human life, basically.
00:35:17
Speaker
Exactly.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:18
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:18
Speaker
What are we, what is this tech without its actual uses?
00:35:21
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:21
Speaker
I want to try something today.
00:35:22
Speaker
We're going to do rapid fire questions, rapid fire questions.
00:35:27
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:29
Speaker
Okay, off the top of your head, you don't have to think.
00:35:32
Speaker
If you could only buy one NFT and hold it for the rest of your life, what would it be?
00:35:36
Speaker
Oh my God, a ghost.
00:35:38
Speaker
X copy?
00:35:39
Speaker
No, G H X G. Oh, yeah.
00:35:45
Speaker
I think X copy come up because it's a similar art, right?
00:35:47
Speaker
Yeah, kind of like the... The grifters.
00:35:51
Speaker
Yeah, kind of similar.
00:35:52
Speaker
Do you know?
00:35:53
Speaker
Okay.
00:35:54
Speaker
I'll send it to you.
00:35:55
Speaker
I ruined the rapid fire.
00:35:58
Speaker
If you could only hold one crypto for the rest of your life, what would it be?
00:36:01
Speaker
Ethereum.
00:36:02
Speaker
I knew the answer.
00:36:04
Speaker
Who are your top three favorite people you vibe with the most at the moment in this space?
00:36:08
Speaker
Oh, gosh.
00:36:09
Speaker
So Evan McMullen, the founder of Disco, she is quite possibly one of the most inspiring and incredible women that I've ever met in my entire life.
00:36:17
Speaker
I'm so grateful to have her as a mentor, as just such a huge part of my life.
00:36:22
Speaker
LDF, who is the one that I'm building out this year.
00:36:26
Speaker
building this out with at the moment yeah just be able to have someone that you can have so much fun with and just you know nothing is stupid everyone's like we can it's the whole we can do anything and just being able to vibe like that is is really great um and then number three oh my gosh you can leave it at two yeah i'd say those are my top two that sounds good what's something about you people on like don't know
00:36:50
Speaker
I'm a bit of an old woman.
00:36:51
Speaker
I guess that's one thing that people, like I do obviously love like my nights out and stuff, but like my favorite thing to do is to just go to the cinema by myself.
00:37:00
Speaker
That is like, you know, I love to go listen to like just music by myself.
00:37:04
Speaker
I love classical music.
00:37:05
Speaker
I love going to the opera.
00:37:06
Speaker
I love doing that by myself.
00:37:08
Speaker
I'm very much like, I love doing things alone.
00:37:10
Speaker
I love being social and I love,
00:37:13
Speaker
I love hosting.
00:37:13
Speaker
I love being around my friends.
00:37:15
Speaker
But as soon as I want to do something, like, especially if I like traveling, that I have to do that by myself.
00:37:21
Speaker
Exploring the world is something that I like.
00:37:23
Speaker
And arts and creative things is things that I really love through alone.
00:37:26
Speaker
I love people who understand the value of being alone.
00:37:29
Speaker
It's so important.
00:37:30
Speaker
It's so important.
00:37:31
Speaker
What's something about you people think they know that's not true?
00:37:34
Speaker
That I'm a stupid little blonde.
00:37:41
Speaker
I do love the like, and I do play into it, the little stupid little blonde girl persona, like, cause that, that's for the engagement itself.
00:37:51
Speaker
It's fun.
00:37:52
Speaker
It's, I like, I kind of enjoy that.
00:37:55
Speaker
If people think I'm stupid, people can think I'm stupid.
00:37:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:00
Speaker
Oh, Barbie girl.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:38:01
Speaker
I'm okay with that.
00:38:03
Speaker
It's a good one.
00:38:03
Speaker
Cause it's, it breaks down defenses and then you can, yeah.
00:38:09
Speaker
Do you think you're the person who owns the most ledgers on the planet?
00:38:15
Speaker
I don't know what you're talking about.
00:38:22
Speaker
There's five here.
00:38:31
Speaker
That's not even all of them.
00:38:33
Speaker
Can you just...
00:38:35
Speaker
It's really hard when your best friend works there.
00:38:42
Speaker
It's like, I come in every color as well.
00:38:51
Speaker
It's just like, you know, got like, really pretty.
00:38:55
Speaker
This one's gorgeous.
00:38:57
Speaker
Like the
Advice for Entering Web3
00:38:58
Speaker
sea green.
00:38:58
Speaker
I don't know where my, where's the other?
00:39:02
Speaker
What is it called?
00:39:02
Speaker
The stacks?
00:39:04
Speaker
Not yet.
00:39:04
Speaker
That's not out yet.
00:39:06
Speaker
Oh, it's not?
00:39:06
Speaker
I kind of assumed it was.
00:39:08
Speaker
I really want it.
00:39:09
Speaker
I really want it.
00:39:10
Speaker
I think I'm getting it.
00:39:11
Speaker
But yeah, it's just coming.
00:39:12
Speaker
Yeah, because you need it.
00:39:14
Speaker
I need it.
00:39:15
Speaker
You need to spread those funds very, very... My four years that I have left.
00:39:21
Speaker
It's where when Gossip Protocol takes off.
00:39:26
Speaker
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:28
Speaker
You'll have the safes ready.
00:39:30
Speaker
Oh man, that turned out very well.
00:39:32
Speaker
That was great.
00:39:34
Speaker
I think one of the things that you've done super well that people can learn from is how to take the first steps into building a career.
00:39:42
Speaker
Because now you're in a good position and you have a good network and you have opportunities that naturally come your way.
00:39:48
Speaker
But you see a lot of people, and especially when you're a founder, you instantly have people coming at you for like, hey, can I have money?
00:39:55
Speaker
Can I have a job?
00:39:57
Speaker
Can I have something?
00:39:58
Speaker
Who don't know the first thing about business.
00:40:01
Speaker
like getting started and getting the foot in the door.
00:40:03
Speaker
Can you recall the steps you took in the beginning that made it possible to move forward on that path?
00:40:11
Speaker
Yeah, for sure.
00:40:12
Speaker
I mean, like, I think I'm going to say that I'm really lucky in the fact that I never had a traditional career.
00:40:18
Speaker
I worked in finance once for eight months, almost, you know, key management serviced myself because it was just so depressing.
00:40:27
Speaker
But then I went and I did my master's and then during COVID is I started doing front end dev.
00:40:33
Speaker
I was a front end dev for a while doing I was like for iOS and for web apps.
00:40:39
Speaker
So I was a freelancer and I was doing those for like blockchain products and for traditional products as well.
00:40:44
Speaker
I never had a corporate career.
00:40:48
Speaker
So I feel like I was never, I don't want to say brainwashed because I don't know if that's, but like I was never pigeonholed into this is how you get jobs.
00:40:56
Speaker
This is how you work.
00:40:58
Speaker
So it was the way that we started Shiller as well.
00:41:01
Speaker
One of the co-founders put a tweet out being like, Hey, who wants to start this company?
00:41:04
Speaker
Six, five of us replied and we all just got added to a discord and that was how we started.
00:41:08
Speaker
And then how I got my job when I was working at the gallery in Prague, I just, my mate was like, do you want to do this?
00:41:14
Speaker
I was like, yeah.
00:41:15
Speaker
Just any opportunity that even if I didn't feel qualified to do it, I just said yes to.
00:41:21
Speaker
And me and LDF and I were having this conversation yesterday, actually.
00:41:24
Speaker
where we wanted to do the things that we want that we're doing now is stuff that we've wanted to do for years but felt like we couldn't do it because we didn't know enough we weren't qualified we didn't have enough uh just knowledge to be able to execute what we wanted to do because we felt like everyone knew so much more than us people don't know shit people don't know that's fact
00:41:46
Speaker
People don't know shit.
00:41:49
Speaker
If you're actively learning about it, you know more than most people in the space.
00:41:52
Speaker
That is just the one thing that really has helped me get over my imposter syndrome.
00:41:57
Speaker
All it takes is just a little bit of research and I know even just a little bit about it.
00:42:01
Speaker
So I think the best way to get started is to just do it and learn along the way.
00:42:06
Speaker
If someone tweets about an experience, tweets about an opportunity that you think...
00:42:10
Speaker
Cool.
00:42:10
Speaker
I don't know if I'm like super qualified to do this.
00:42:13
Speaker
I know a bit about it, but I know it's not about what you know.
00:42:16
Speaker
It's about knowing how to find out the information.
00:42:19
Speaker
A hundred percent.
00:42:20
Speaker
All the time.
00:42:21
Speaker
All the time.
00:42:22
Speaker
If I don't know something, I know how to find it out.
00:42:24
Speaker
And I think that's like one of the best superpowers to have.
00:42:27
Speaker
There's an overwhelming number of people focused on action, on just doing things.
00:42:32
Speaker
And the definition of madness is to repeat things, expecting the outcome to change.
00:42:37
Speaker
And it's like, you keep doing, you keep begging for something.
00:42:40
Speaker
You keep asking, not showing anything, or you try to grow an audience or you try to make something work.
00:42:47
Speaker
And if you don't learn along the way to level up a little bit, it, I think that's my, that's what, what did you call it earlier?
00:42:55
Speaker
My ick, my,
00:42:57
Speaker
Ick, yeah.
00:42:58
Speaker
Ick, I like it.
00:42:59
Speaker
New word for me today.
00:43:01
Speaker
And for you, the internship thing, going in and saying, what was the internship for again?
00:43:07
Speaker
I was doing wholesale and merchandising for a fashion house.
00:43:11
Speaker
Like my entire life, I'd wanted to work in the fashion industry and yeah, it changed because I was fed new.
00:43:17
Speaker
There is nothing wrong with changing your opinion on new information.
00:43:20
Speaker
That is the one thing that I've also really learned.
00:43:22
Speaker
It's like, yeah, it's okay to, you have to adapt.
00:43:26
Speaker
If you're going to go through life really stubborn towards this is what I want my job to be.
00:43:30
Speaker
This is what I want to do in life.
00:43:31
Speaker
Like I used to be like, I'm never going to be a content creator.
00:43:34
Speaker
Jesus Christ, that's so cringe.
00:43:35
Speaker
I'm never going to do that.
00:43:36
Speaker
I've just started a new company on content creation, like, and I'm really excited about it.
00:43:41
Speaker
And I think it's going to be really fun.
00:43:42
Speaker
So yeah, it's just, you know, adapt and overcome.
00:43:46
Speaker
That's really good.
00:43:48
Speaker
There wasn't an internship for, uh, for one of the web three experiences you had.
00:43:52
Speaker
Oh, so I was, yeah, at the, the, it was like a really short internship that I did for the researcher when I went to London fashion week.
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:00
Speaker
Ah, okay.
00:44:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:02
Speaker
Because I was just, I was just going to say that instead of going and asking for a job, going and getting your foot in the door, proving that you're worth something, proving that you're able to learn, proving that you're able to work can also be good.
00:44:17
Speaker
Oh, 100%.
00:44:18
Speaker
So those were positive things.
00:44:19
Speaker
Do you remember mistakes that you made in the earlier days that you learned from?
00:44:24
Speaker
Yeah, I think it is ego and thinking like this is, you know, thinking that like, oh, this is too stupid to work.
00:44:29
Speaker
This is too stupid.
00:44:30
Speaker
I'm not going to get involved in this.
00:44:31
Speaker
I'm going to ignore this.
00:44:32
Speaker
I ignored a lot of things that I shouldn't have ignored, that I should not have ignored because I thought it was stupid.
00:44:38
Speaker
And I think that's something that I'm really learning this time is
00:44:42
Speaker
Like, just say yes to things and like, accept that things are going to happen.
00:44:47
Speaker
Accept that things are not that you're not going to agree with a lot, like with everything, but just try it out.
00:44:52
Speaker
See, you know, don't be so quick.
00:44:54
Speaker
Yeah.
00:44:55
Speaker
I was too quick to dismiss a lot of things in the early days.
00:44:59
Speaker
And now I'm a lot more open-minded.
00:45:01
Speaker
That's awesome.
00:45:02
Speaker
Be open-minded.
00:45:04
Speaker
And for this industry specifically, because there is going to come a time in the next few weeks, in the next few months, I don't know when it's going to start.
00:45:11
Speaker
You're going to have liquidity coming back in, opportunities, all of that.
00:45:15
Speaker
And you're going to have a flow of people looking to grab those opportunities.
00:45:21
Speaker
What would your advice be to someone who's just getting in and who wants to make a career in Web3?
00:45:28
Speaker
Don't be annoying.
00:45:29
Speaker
Yeah.
00:45:33
Speaker
That's good.
00:45:40
Speaker
No.
00:45:41
Speaker
It's true, though.
00:45:42
Speaker
It's true.
00:45:43
Speaker
I was super annoying in the beginning, and I regret being really annoying.
00:45:46
Speaker
But I'm annoying in my own way, but I also kind of own being annoying.
00:45:50
Speaker
But that's just on brand.
00:45:52
Speaker
But no, I guess it's just like, don't annoy me.
00:45:54
Speaker
I don't know.
00:45:58
Speaker
Don't annoy Winnie and you'll be fine.
00:45:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:01
Speaker
Easy enough.
00:46:02
Speaker
Yeah.
00:46:03
Speaker
No, it's not.
00:46:04
Speaker
I guess advice is just is to learn and to just actually don't be surface level.
00:46:11
Speaker
If you're, if you're genuinely interested in doing, in being part of this space, if you just want to make money, just make money and own that.
00:46:16
Speaker
Like, you know, if you are genuinely interested in growing a career in this space, absorb everything.
00:46:20
Speaker
Go actually the best advice is I know this is going to sound, what's the word I'm looking for coming.
00:46:25
Speaker
This is going to come from a place of privilege.
00:46:27
Speaker
saying this but if there is a conference or a meetup in your city go to it go and actually meet people IRL and even if you live in just yeah you don't even have to go to the big conferences if there is a community that's in your village or in your town in your city be a part of that and that will just give you that leg up that you really really need that you don't really get online
00:46:49
Speaker
Because you just never know who you're going to meet there.
00:46:51
Speaker
You can be a reply guy to someone who has 100,000 followers or whatever, and you keep replying to them, and they're just like, yeah, you're being annoying.
00:46:59
Speaker
But like, oh, you're not.
00:47:00
Speaker
You're being a reply guy.
00:47:01
Speaker
But I guess this is coming from a very... We love reply guys.
00:47:03
Speaker
We do love reply guys.
00:47:05
Speaker
My favorite reply guy has currently been suspended.
00:47:08
Speaker
So I'm really sad that he's not here anymore.
00:47:10
Speaker
My friend Jake.
00:47:12
Speaker
We miss him a lot.
00:47:15
Speaker
We think of you.
00:47:15
Speaker
We do.
00:47:17
Speaker
And we pray for you, Jake.
00:47:18
Speaker
If you go to these meetups, you bring down those degrees of separation so much more and it just allows you to get closer to these people and just, again, in a more human and more genuine way.
Marketing and Engagement in Web3
00:47:29
Speaker
It is genuinely all about the network and the network has to start from somewhere and making...
00:47:36
Speaker
few genuine connections matters a whole lot more than having a ton of nothing connections.
00:47:43
Speaker
Yeah.
00:47:45
Speaker
Let's talk about marketing.
00:47:46
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
00:47:47
Speaker
Because it's honestly, probably right now the most important subject in Web3, even more than devs, it seems.
00:47:55
Speaker
You come from fashion and you're also a dev.
00:47:58
Speaker
You're definitely like very obviously smart.
00:48:01
Speaker
more interested in the tech than 99% of the people, but you've worked a lot in marketing.
00:48:07
Speaker
What are the biggest lessons that you've learned about marketing web through projects?
00:48:12
Speaker
How quickly the space changes.
00:48:14
Speaker
And like, I say that, like people are like, oh yeah, that's so obvious.
00:48:17
Speaker
No.
00:48:17
Speaker
Oh my God.
00:48:18
Speaker
I remember when we were at, when I was at Shiller and we were doing growth and marketing for projects back, back in 21, early 22, it was so fast paced and so much
00:48:29
Speaker
easier and people cared about, I don't want to say easier, people cared about the projects, people cared about the teams.
00:48:35
Speaker
It was just so, it was just so much more fun to market back then.
00:48:38
Speaker
And then when I was doing marketing and business there for FigureGop over the last year, it was like, marketing is just alpha calls.
00:48:46
Speaker
That is what it means to market a project nowadays.
00:48:48
Speaker
It is, it's not real.
00:48:50
Speaker
It's all completely manipulated.
00:48:53
Speaker
You can't, like, if you want, there is, there is no marketing right now.
00:48:56
Speaker
I'm going to like literally say it that way.
00:48:58
Speaker
There is, the only way to do it is manipulation.
00:49:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:49:01
Speaker
And it's really, really sad.
00:49:03
Speaker
And I think also that that's very much on the NFT side.
00:49:06
Speaker
And I'm kind of like, I love NFTs.
00:49:09
Speaker
I love everything that I've done with them, but
00:49:11
Speaker
It's very much having to be something that I'm phasing away from because it's something that I've really noticed that people that don't care about anything else but NFTs and flipping NFTs and making money.
00:49:20
Speaker
And it was really, I loved working at Figurego.
00:49:22
Speaker
I love being around Jess and just the art that she created and the experience that she made.
00:49:28
Speaker
But it was like, so I came into this space wanting to be a Solidity Dev.
00:49:32
Speaker
My last job was writing tweets.
00:49:33
Speaker
It was just like, what did NFTs do to my brain and to my life and to the career that I wanted to have?
00:49:39
Speaker
And I'm still getting it now.
00:49:40
Speaker
Like, you know, I left a couple of months ago and I didn't do an announcement for it because I don't feel like everything needs to be announced.
00:49:48
Speaker
But people being...
00:49:49
Speaker
I still get shitty DMs, shitty tweet replies being like, why have you left?
00:49:53
Speaker
Why have you left?
00:49:54
Speaker
Why have you left?
00:49:54
Speaker
I'm like, I'm allowed to leave.
00:49:56
Speaker
I'm allowed to go off and do something else.
00:49:57
Speaker
I'm allowed to grow.
00:49:58
Speaker
I'm allowed to have my career.
00:50:01
Speaker
Also, there is no money to pay me.
00:50:04
Speaker
I have to work.
00:50:06
Speaker
And it's just like all these understandings of people that don't know how... Yeah, like, sorry, yeah, that really went off on a tangent.
00:50:15
Speaker
You're allowed to.
00:50:15
Speaker
And it is the most understandable tangent.
00:50:20
Speaker
It's like, I love the company.
00:50:22
Speaker
I love what they're doing and I will always support them, but like, I have to do it for myself.
00:50:26
Speaker
I have to, I really fell out of love with NFTs in the space because
00:50:31
Speaker
of all the underlying things that are going on with it.
00:50:33
Speaker
So I'm going back to my love of the blockchain, of tech, of building things with purpose, instead of just like we were building, FigureCart was built with a purpose and it still is being built with a purpose.
00:50:46
Speaker
But it's when you have the people who are just DMing you being like about floor price, like that's not the point of everything we're doing.
00:50:54
Speaker
It's not about
00:50:54
Speaker
fucking floor prices.
00:50:56
Speaker
I'm going to scream.
00:50:59
Speaker
Please scream for all of us who can't.
00:51:01
Speaker
Can you just stop sitting on your fucking ass and yelling at me over Twitter because of something that no one can control right now.
00:51:10
Speaker
And it's like, I...
00:51:13
Speaker
just want to do what I love and I have permission to, I give myself permission to do that.
00:51:17
Speaker
No one else has, has to.
00:51:19
Speaker
And that's why I'm so excited to be able to, to go back to that.
00:51:24
Speaker
And it's just like, yeah, and now I get to help protocols and platforms and products do marketing, actually marketing instead of just
00:51:35
Speaker
And that brings me back to creating something with purpose and using Web3.
00:51:40
Speaker
What we're doing with Gossip Protocol, we're never dropping a token.
00:51:43
Speaker
We're never dropping an NFT.
00:51:45
Speaker
We're never going to make a paid gated thing because why have we created this system that is about taking consumer money, taking community money, and that then is, when you do that, the only MO of...
00:52:00
Speaker
Anything that you ever do is making them money again.
00:52:04
Speaker
And that just takes away the joy, the love, the importance of what we're building.
Accountability in Decentralized Communities
00:52:09
Speaker
So yeah, that's when, that's why marketing in this space is stupid and doesn't exist because you, when you do marketing, you have to understand what the goal is of your audience.
00:52:20
Speaker
And if the goal of your audience is, yeah, like, do we see how fucked up this is?
00:52:26
Speaker
It doesn't make any sense.
00:52:27
Speaker
So yeah.
00:52:29
Speaker
This is so, so much truth.
00:52:31
Speaker
I can't handle it right now.
00:52:33
Speaker
I'm just going to scream.
00:52:35
Speaker
I'm an emotional woman.
00:52:39
Speaker
It's insane.
00:52:39
Speaker
It is so true.
00:52:41
Speaker
And it's back with the entitlements.
00:52:44
Speaker
All of the entitlement and none of the accountability, which my personal draw to Web3 was not the techie side as in like, how do we build this and learning solidity or all this.
00:52:56
Speaker
It was what it permitted, which is decentralization, which is networks that belong to the people who participate in those networks.
00:53:05
Speaker
That is only possible with blockchain.
00:53:08
Speaker
And for this, you need two things.
00:53:11
Speaker
You need ownership of the people need to own those networks and you need accountability because when you own a house, you're accountable for it.
00:53:20
Speaker
You need to pay your bills and you need to make sure that it stays up and all of this.
00:53:26
Speaker
And out of these two core components,
00:53:29
Speaker
Ownership has turned into entitlement.
00:53:32
Speaker
I invested 50 bucks.
00:53:33
Speaker
I'm an owner now and none of the accountability.
00:53:37
Speaker
Why price not go up?
00:53:38
Speaker
Why price go down?
00:53:39
Speaker
Why floor price not go up?
00:53:41
Speaker
Like it's so fucking crazy because you get access to people that you've never had before.
00:53:47
Speaker
Because if you're a user of Airbnb, even if you're an investor in Airbnb, you're not in a chat with Franceschi.
00:53:54
Speaker
Like it just doesn't happen.
00:53:56
Speaker
You're not.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:58
Speaker
and and it would be a privilege to be in the chat with him and you would take your time you would think about like what questions am i going to ask but you're in the chat with founders and you harass them i get you're entitled i get death threats what the hell what the hell
00:54:22
Speaker
It blows my mind that people think that this is the solution to like, and I think it just shows how,
00:54:31
Speaker
I don't even have the words to describe it sometimes.
00:54:33
Speaker
It's the entitlement, the audacity.
00:54:36
Speaker
And yeah, someone tweeted to me yesterday, tweeted at me yesterday when I was tweeting about, you know, LDNF and I were making content and they were like, the audacity that you have to leave.
00:54:47
Speaker
And I'm like, the audacity that you have right now to be tweeting this at me.
00:54:51
Speaker
Like, who are you from an anonymous account?
00:54:54
Speaker
Like, you know, you have access to my face.
00:54:57
Speaker
Give me access to yours.
00:54:57
Speaker
Let's go cheek for cheek.
00:54:59
Speaker
I would be happy to.
00:55:01
Speaker
But yeah, it's an insane meta that we've built here that we think we just deserve.
00:55:07
Speaker
Like, I think, yeah, this goes back again to what we were saying at the beginning.
00:55:10
Speaker
People think that they deserve access to these people.
00:55:15
Speaker
But also I'm like, we look at the NFT demographic.
00:55:19
Speaker
middle-aged men.
00:55:21
Speaker
That's not very alpha male of you to not be able to make your own money.
00:55:26
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:55:27
Speaker
To just be yelling at a bunch of a lot of, and then you look like NFT founders.
00:55:31
Speaker
A lot of them are people in their twenties.
00:55:33
Speaker
It's just like, hmm, I think you're projecting just a little bit there, darling.
00:55:37
Speaker
You know, it's just a little bit.
00:55:40
Speaker
Yeah.
00:55:41
Speaker
How do we grow beyond that?
00:55:44
Speaker
Is the $1 billion question.
00:55:47
Speaker
We believe.
00:55:47
Speaker
We what?
00:55:48
Speaker
We believe.
00:55:51
Speaker
We have the power now.
00:55:53
Speaker
We hold their financial balls in our hands.
00:55:58
Speaker
Yes.
00:55:59
Speaker
We use some really malicious soulbound tokens.
00:56:03
Speaker
I wonder if, you know, like when you were talking about Bitcoin even a few years ago, less so now, it was like, ah, but it's clunky and it consumes a lot of gas.
00:56:14
Speaker
And you take a stab back and you're a little bit smart.
00:56:16
Speaker
You tell them like, yes, because it's like,
00:56:19
Speaker
eight years old.
00:56:21
Speaker
Have you ever seen tech that's mature after eight years?
00:56:24
Speaker
Like go and see, go and drive a car eight years after cars were invented and tell me how much it consumes and tell me how clunky it is.
00:56:34
Speaker
Do you think it's the same thing with decentralization and decentralized communities that eventually they learn from
00:56:41
Speaker
Or what do we need to change?
00:56:43
Speaker
I have a few answers, but.
00:56:45
Speaker
Yeah, I guess it goes back to what you were saying about accountability.
00:56:48
Speaker
I think it is one, there is absolutely no reparation when it comes to like, if someone does something bad or says something bad or is mean in the space, no one gives a fuck.
00:56:58
Speaker
No one actually gives a fuck.
00:56:59
Speaker
So as soon as there is, but there also will never be any sort of accountability, I guess, because I hope not.
00:57:06
Speaker
We never see like actual like social scores and that kind of thing be implemented, but.
00:57:10
Speaker
I guess it is, I guess I think also as a species, we are actually evolving a lot more to be more empathetic.
00:57:17
Speaker
I mean, there is still obviously going to be the, you know, the extreme malicious sides of things.
00:57:21
Speaker
And like, we do have a great sense of community and I hope that really does stay.
00:57:25
Speaker
But in the next bull run, I think there's going to be a lot of malice again.
00:57:28
Speaker
So I think it is just holding, holding accountability.
00:57:31
Speaker
And I just don't know how we can enforce that.
00:57:33
Speaker
And we can't, people are just going to keep being assholes.
00:57:36
Speaker
I had this idea for a DAP that was basically using blockchain and using whatever pieces of identity we have of people.
00:57:48
Speaker
And the problem with how DAPs are built right now is that it only functions on objective data because objective data is the only thing we trust.
00:57:56
Speaker
But my thesis is that if you add up enough subjective data, it kind of becomes objective.
00:58:02
Speaker
And so if you have a thousand people saying something...
00:58:05
Speaker
There is some truth to that.
00:58:07
Speaker
Like it's the wisdom of the crowd.
00:58:09
Speaker
And if you have a thousand people, 500 saying something and 500 saying something, there's probably truth to both.
00:58:15
Speaker
And so it helps you like paint a picture of reality.
00:58:18
Speaker
That's close enough to reality.
00:58:21
Speaker
And I, I,
00:58:22
Speaker
I think there's an app there where we let people, it would need to be token gated.
00:58:28
Speaker
Like there needs to be some cost to participate.
00:58:31
Speaker
Otherwise, otherwise you just end up with a bunch of nonsense, but where you, I don't know how it could be called let's not forget or something, but you basically, when something happens, you leave it there when it's relating to a person.
00:58:44
Speaker
Cause in three years, everyone will have forgotten what Ben did in 2023.
00:58:49
Speaker
Yeah, well, we say it was like Beanie.
00:58:51
Speaker
And I guess probably 888 is going to come back.
00:58:55
Speaker
Oh, please no.
00:58:57
Speaker
People who are very much know the class 2020 and 2021, we know that.
00:59:01
Speaker
We remember that.
00:59:02
Speaker
People joining the space now, or even next year or the next bull run, they're not going to have any idea that any of this stuff happened.
00:59:10
Speaker
Because first of all, none of our data or any of our social interactions are on-chain.
00:59:15
Speaker
Just delete the account, start again.
00:59:17
Speaker
Or, you know, it's...
00:59:19
Speaker
It's always going to be that.
00:59:23
Speaker
It's just going to keep happening, unfortunately.
00:59:25
Speaker
Because nothing, yeah.
00:59:27
Speaker
We need to do something.
00:59:28
Speaker
We
Communication Preferences in Web3
00:59:29
Speaker
do.
00:59:29
Speaker
We need to make something like this happen.
00:59:31
Speaker
I have more questions about marketing, but marketing is dead, so we're not going to talk about that.
00:59:35
Speaker
But no, yeah, we've gone through all the very interesting points I wanted to talk about.
00:59:41
Speaker
What's to keep in mind when it comes to you right now?
00:59:44
Speaker
What should people expect?
00:59:46
Speaker
Where should they reach you?
00:59:48
Speaker
Twitter DMs, I don't really...
00:59:50
Speaker
respond i do respond to them but they always get filtered out so it's very difficult so i will say email i'm very like old school email is probably bad yeah i am an older or be a reply guy be a reply guy earn your keeps and and at some point you'll get noticed and you'll get your you'll get your shot don't miss me through this
01:00:12
Speaker
or whatever it is on like in on ether scan that's always an easy one there we go let's be let's be blockchain let's be diehards yeah oh my god yeah i should just say like yeah just in my dms i'm i'm chronically online everything even like everything is either winnie eth or winnie.eth so telegram instagram twitter i'm everywhere but make sure it is me because there's been some scammers going around as me again on instagram which is just
01:00:40
Speaker
so annoying like they just it's i find it so bizarre because they like rip my entire instagram feed and re-upload it and then start dming my friends being like hey how are your crypto trades going and all of my friends just now have to like troll them back because it's like when he doesn't wouldn't do this but yeah it's just fucking fake instagram accounts are the bane of my life right now i'm just like oh there's a fake account of you like i know i fucking know and they'll always be here
01:01:07
Speaker
They'll always be here.
01:01:08
Speaker
Like they're my number one fans, you know, it's.
01:01:10
Speaker
They are, they know your worth and they're trying to, they're trying to get some of that light.
01:01:16
Speaker
Exactly.
01:01:17
Speaker
My friend's like, Oh, you've made it.
01:01:18
Speaker
I'm like, no, I'm just, they're just grifters.
01:01:20
Speaker
Yeah.
01:01:21
Speaker
All right.
01:01:21
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:01:22
Speaker
And now to the people who've made it this far, thank you so much for being here.
01:01:27
Speaker
If you are, follow us wherever you're listening.
01:01:30
Speaker
Winnie is the real deal.
01:01:31
Speaker
It's always easy to fake things online because like what we're saying, you can show what you want.
01:01:37
Speaker
But I've interacted with her for the past few months and those interactions have been
01:01:43
Speaker
very authentic and very truthful and never any lie or fake.
01:01:47
Speaker
And you should follow her and you should support what she does because it matters and she's going places, that one.
01:01:56
Speaker
Just a bit of, not NFA, but I love to lie on the internet.
01:02:00
Speaker
A lot of my tweets will be lies.
01:02:02
Speaker
So just take that with a bit of some.
01:02:04
Speaker
It's just satirical purposes.
01:02:07
Speaker
It's just women love to lie.
01:02:10
Speaker
Don't say that.
01:02:11
Speaker
That's not true.
01:02:12
Speaker
Not all women.
01:02:12
Speaker
That's a lie right here.
01:02:13
Speaker
Is anything true?
01:02:15
Speaker
What is real?
01:02:16
Speaker
What is fake?
01:02:17
Speaker
What is real?
01:02:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:02:19
Speaker
I appreciate it.
01:02:19
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:02:20
Speaker
And as always, you've just been, it's always a joy to speak to you and to be able to do this with you.
01:02:24
Speaker
It's just been, it's been a great experience.
01:02:26
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:02:27
Speaker
Thank you so much.
01:02:28
Speaker
Thank you for, yeah.
01:02:29
Speaker
Thank you for being here.