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Leading While Black - Sergeant Major Matthew Drayton
191 Plays4 years ago
Major Drayton speaks on leadership strategies and lessons for today's black professional.
He speaks on growing up in the south and his new book Leading While Black.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Black History Month Episode
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Bigger Talks, Bigger Talks.
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Yes, we have another episode in this one.
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OMG, I'm so excited because we get to get some perspective in.
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It's Black History Month.
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So I want to invite my guest for today's podcast, Sergeant Matthew R. Drayton.
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He spent...
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20 plus years in the US Army.
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He's an author, a writer, a motivation.
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And I like to call him the general.
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Like I just met this guy briefly and I feel like I know
Challenges and Changes in Black Leadership
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him.
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I love his energy and I can't wait to hear what he has to say about
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leading while Black and succeeding while Black.
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So perspective is going to be motivational, inspirational, and people, please listen to what this man has to say.
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He served his purpose in the US Army and in life.
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And he's also has his training certification from the fitness background.
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So we're going to talk all things, you know, being black, African-American, being a leader and just dealing with the challenges and changes over the years.
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And I'll get to hear life from his perspective.
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So Sergeant Drayton, if I can call you, welcome to the podcast, Bigger Talks.
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And I'm happy to have you here, man.
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Thanks for being here.
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Hey, Eric, thanks for having
Diverse Perspectives on the Black Experience
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me.
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It's a privilege to be here talking with you today and I'm looking forward to speaking to your audience about leadership and some of the experiences I had while I was in the military and post-military.
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I love it.
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I love it.
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So just to break the ice and it's, it might be a rhetorical question, but I'm a big person of perspective and I believe there's no white and black.
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When I say white and black, that's not even this way or that way.
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There's not one size fit all.
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So you're older than me.
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So the way I grew up versus your way could be completely different.
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So what is your definition
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of being black, what does that mean?
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How do you see that?
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How do you define it from your perspective?
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So, and you're right, I am a couple of years older than you.
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I want to say a couple, but there's actually a lot more, probably.
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But let me say this.
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So I grew up in the 60s and 70s in the South, okay?
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And that perspective of being black has a lot to do, I think, from where you were raised.
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because I've got family members that are in the North and grew up out West, like in California where you are.
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And when I talk to them about their black experience, it's totally different.
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However, I will tell you, needless to say, and my father, I'll talk about him real briefly.
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I used to get frustrated.
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He would say, yes, sir, and yes, ma'am to people half his age.
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And that would bother me and I would say hey pops why are you saying yes sir and yes ma'am to this 20 year old and you're in your 50s.
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And you know he would come back and say hey listen you know where we live this is customary.
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Also.
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it doesn't hurt me to do this, especially if you're aware of a bank or a store someplace where I need something from that individual.
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So I show them some respect.
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And that kind of stayed with me.
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I was a little boy, but I remembered that.
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But my Black experience was definitely a typical Southern experience where African-American males especially had to act a certain way, had to, you know,
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watch their surroundings.
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And also, you know, in the workplace, I mean, you, there was not a whole lot of room for advancement.
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You know, you always started at the lowest rung.
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And most times, in most cases, that's where you stayed due to educational opportunities and other things.
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So that was kind of my Black experience growing up.
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Interesting.
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And with that being said, so you say you grew up in Georgia, right?
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What park?
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Correct.
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I grew up in Savannah.
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I don't know if you've ever been there.
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Yeah, I had a friend whose wife is from out there.
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Okay.
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You know, it's interesting time and perspective.
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So I went to Nashville, Tennessee about a year ago to visit a friend.
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And I got me a nice boutique hotel.
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It was like near downtown.
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Mm-hmm.
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and I didn't see many black people.
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And so I can't say Nashville is considered the South, maybe it is.
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But my experience being in a hotel and then running into black individuals, their energy was different with me.
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Like they was excited to see me.
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Like I was like, and most of the people who did, how do I classify this?
Growing Up Black in the South
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So the guys at the front desk, or who was running the spot, they wasn't black.
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But the guys who was coming to bring me an ironing board or check if my shower was working, they were black.
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More so like,
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Everyone, yeah.
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And so it was just interesting and I've never experienced anything like that.
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And by the way, I'm from Baltimore, Maryland.
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So I grew up in a predominantly black environment and it was, that's all I knew.
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Inner city, tough, but these are your people.
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So I say all that to say what is, because I have a friend who's from Skipperville, Alabama.
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His name is Brian Johnson.
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He actually is my BJ to Dream.
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He's my book publisher.
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and he's from the South.
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So what he, they always say being black in the South, like it has a ring to it, like it has a, it's a connotation that comes with it.
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What does that actually mean for someone like myself and someone who's not from the South in those times or maybe in these times?
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Yeah, so, you know, it's interesting you brought up Nashville.
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You know, Nashville was the last vacation my wife and I took before COVID.
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Okay.
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So we went down there, like, in the fall of 2019.
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It was our first time going to Nashville.
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We stayed in an area called the Gulch.
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Okay.
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So that was kind of...
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It was a nice area.
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The hotel we stayed in was very nice.
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It had a rooftop bar, things like that.
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And you know, it's interesting you brought that up because we experienced some of the same things.
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There were a couple of front desk people that were black there and they seem really excited to see us.
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And they really, you know, if I came and asked for something they really took good care of me.
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So I really appreciated that.
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So I experienced that.
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Back to your question, as far as growing up in the South and how,
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I think what you're asking me is how can I, how, explain it to someone who isn't from the South.
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Is that kind of what you're.
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Yeah, it's like in Baltimore, you know, we have an accent.
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So we don't say Baltimore, we say Baltimore.
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We say mother, we say father.
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So I was slang.
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Some other people might not understand, but I can break it down to them.
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Right.
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So when you say you from the South, yeah, I know you from the South, but being black in the South,
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you know, I had some people who are not black from there.
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So, oh no, it's different.
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I got some black friends that grew up in the South and oh, it's, and I don't wanna say racist, I don't know if that's the, cause that's so general, but I'm trying to understand the details of what that really means for someone who doesn't understand it.
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If that makes sense.
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Yeah, so let me, so I'll start back some of the things.
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So when I, so I was part of the first,
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school integration in like 1970.
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All right.
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So I lived in a black neighborhood, predominantly black.
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We had some white families sprinkled in there, but not very many.
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So they bust the white kids into our schools.
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And so this was the first time that I had ever had any interaction with a white person.
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I'm very thankful for it, by the way, because what it allowed me to do was learn more about them and better help me
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be able to navigate as a man in the world because there's differences and you have to be able to talk and work through those differences and understand people for what they are.
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So that was very helpful.
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But growing up, one of the things that I kind of noticed right out of the gate
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was there were a ton of stereotypes.
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As a matter of fact, the kid that I came real close to, his name is Carl Shewalter.
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I tried to reach out to him a couple of years back when I wrote my first book and I got ahold of his father, but I was not able, he would not return my call because I cold called him, and I understand that.
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But me and this kid, so we would sit down and literally share notes all day about our different cultures.
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And
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So that gave me some perspective of white people.
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But I will tell you, growing up down there, my dad, he always told me, hey, what you can and cannot do.
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So I felt like I had a restrictor played on me my whole life as a kid.
Military as a Pathway to Growth
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Where I could go, what neighborhoods I could be in, what I could say to people.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, absolutely.
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So as an adult, you know, so think about this.
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Now, the military helped me to break out of that shell because...
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you know, you go in the military, it's a little different there too.
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You know, immediately, you know, people are yelling at you.
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And it is, is this, is this, is what color as well and race as well is difficult even more you're saying or just in general, because it is.
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In general, I'm talking in general and we can talk about race in the military later on, but in general, you know, the military is a different mindset.
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So, so that got me out of my comfort zone and got me, gave me more confidence to speak up.
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But if you could imagine just,
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hundreds of black boys growing up with that restrictor plate on them, not, you know, not having that confidence, being leery, you know, looking around every corner, then that kind of molds you for what you're going to be.
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You know, everybody doesn't get that opportunity to go to college, to go out in the world and do other things.
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So you kind of, your mindset stays that way.
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And unfortunately, some people, they don't ever fully develop, you know, because of those, because of their upbringing.
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And that's the South in a nutshell.
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It's just, especially for Black males.
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I mean, it was, you know, women have always, Black women, in my opinion, have always kind of
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not been looked at as much as a threat.
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And, you know, you can go back to the old days of slavery and even forward, you know, black women were allowed in the homes to take care of family.
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I mean, they had access that black men could not get.
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Yeah.
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So you were saying, you know, black men growing up in the South in your time and maybe still to today, they have mental barriers that are put on them that they might not subconsciously understand.
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And they're living from a fixed mindset and they might want to adapt a growth mindset, but they don't know how to enhance or develop that because of
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you know, subconscious restrictions.
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And it's interesting, you know, the polarity of that growing up in the South with the discrimination and the restrictions.
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It was like that for me growing up in Baltimore City, where it was a lot of drugs being sold, a lot of violence and a lot of just negativity.
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So you go to certain, if you go out at night, you know, you're looking over your shoulder or you're walking home from the store, basketball practice, you got to have to be on a swivel.
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Like it's, you know, and it's odd, but that was my reality as a young man.
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I heard you mention being in the Army.
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So I played sports growing up, very disciplined, and I'm about results and I'm about getting things done.
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So before you got into the Army, what was your profession or what was –
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What kept you busy the most?
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And what was the intentions to join the Army back in your day?
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Yeah, so like you, I was a decent athlete.
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I played sports.
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I played sports in high school.
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I played basketball and football.
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But, you know, one thing about football, you get in high school and then you start realizing, hey, I'm not as big as some of these other guys.
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Right.
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And then these cats started running you over.
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This guy Gregory ran me over one time, and that was kind of my –
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epiphany on, hey, you know, I'm gonna find something else to do.
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So I gave up football, I stuck with basketball for a while, but then I kind of got more concerned about my finances.
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And so I started taking a little odd jobs there in Savannah, and I started working at grocery stores, restaurants, wherever I could work.
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And that kind of got me, you know,
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into a mindset where I could get out on my own.
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The military now, I will tell you, I grew up underprivileged.
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My parents didn't.
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My father, I'm an only child.
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My mother died when I was six years old.
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Oh, wow.
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Really?
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Yeah, man.
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I don't know if you know what a latchkey kid is.
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Can you explain?
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A latchkey kid is a kid who has a key to get in, let himself in and out of his house while they're parents at work.
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Oh, wow.
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So I was kind of, you know, I, you know, I didn't have any adult supervision.
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So while my father, so when I got home from school, you know, I could or could not do my, my homework.
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You know, my father was not a well-educated man.
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So he, he couldn't check on in me, on me, check in on me with my homework.
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And so I would let myself in and out, but I'd be running the streets, you know, getting into a little bit of everything.
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And thank God, you know, back then, there were people in the neighborhood that could jack you up and tighten you up if you got out of line.
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And there was a lot of that going on for me.
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And I thank God for that to this day, because who knows where I would be.
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So after I graduated from high school, I said, you know, man, I got to do something.
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So I went for a jog one afternoon, and then I ran by the recruiter station.
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And I ran by and I looked up and I saw it and I ran back and I went in there.
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And I will tell anybody within earshot, don't ever go into a recruiter station without a plan.
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Because, man, listen, this dude, long story short, I walked out of there, signed up.
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I mean, oh, yeah, man, he promised me the world, told me everything.
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And what was interesting about it, so, you know, so I sign up.
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And I take the delayed entry.
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So this is June.
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Now in six months, I'm leaving to go, report for basic training.
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And I go tell my pops and he's like, man, that guy tricked you.
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I'm gonna go take you back down and get you out of this thing.
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And I said, no, pops, I wanna do it.
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And I'm really glad I did.
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My initial thing with the military was to do it just to get away for a while.
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There was a lot of stuff going on.
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Savannah is not a big city like Baltimore, but there was crime.
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There was drugs.
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There was a lot of Black-on-Black crime, murders, and things like that happening.
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So I just wanted to initially get away from that and travel a little bit, see the world, and make some money.
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That was my initial plan.
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However, once I got in,
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I started liking it.
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I was traveling a lot.
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I was able to, you know, make some decent money.
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Well, not back then, but over time.
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And, you know, I met my wife.
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Things started happening.
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And before I knew it, man, I had done 26 years and had retired at the rank of Sergeant Major.
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So it was great.
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I mean, I owe the military a lot.
Leadership Challenges and Triumphs for Black Leaders
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But but through my travels and that was why I wrote the book leading while black, because as a black man, there's different leadership challenges that you face.
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And I'm sure there's many examples out there.
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But in my book, I talked specifically about some of the things I dealt with.
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And then I always feel like paying it forward is very important.
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So the things I put in this book.
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can help anyone, any leader, but specifically young African-Americans who find themselves in leadership positions.
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And quite frankly, Eric, when you're in that position, a lot of times you're lonely.
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There's not a whole lot of people sitting at that table with you.
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Yeah.
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And it's interesting you say that because I like to tell my listeners and my followers, you must have a plan, but that plan must come with intentions.
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And it sounds like you had a plan with intentions.
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You wanted to make some money.
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You wanted to get out of Savannah.
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And then that led to many other things.
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I couldn't relate because when I graduated from college, Hampton University, 2010, my plan was to get out of Baltimore.
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My dad sat me down, I don't want you to be here.
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It's dangerous in the city, you just graduated, I think you should go to LA.
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He put the battery in my back, I left.
00:17:00
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When I got here, the tension was to go to grad school, right?
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I had an interview with a company, come to find out it was a scam, but that led to so many other advancements.
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And then, you know, my life took off seven years later.
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But like you said, leading while black, you know, when you come from a place of Baltimore like myself, you don't look at yourself as like, oh, I'm black, I'm African-American because
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everybody around you is black.
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Your school, Hampton University, all black university.
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So this is all I know.
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But when I was based in LA, what I loved about it, that it was diverse, that it was different, that people were open and people were accepting.
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But I did realize, and I guess I can say when I got here, I had a goatee.
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Then I was clean shaven and I realized how people were responding to me differently based on my facial hair.
00:17:53
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So that's piggyback back off of the book.
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What was your, cause I liked the title and like my aunt, she's like, she's very like an inspiration of mine.
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Her name is Renee Myers.
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She did a Ted talk on diversity.
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She's a diversity inclusion VP over at Netflix.
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And
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Like she grew up in different times, but I believe she can relate to the book, but as anyone else in her position as well as you.
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But for a young man like me, what is it that you want people to get from the book and what is the things to be aware of?
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So one of the things, so the title,
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So the phrase while black always has a negative connotation with it.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Driving while black, working while black, you know, it's always something negative.
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So in both of my books, I wanted to take that negative connotation and kind of turn it on its head and put something positive in front of it.
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Yeah.
00:18:54
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So as far as what I want people to get from leading while black, the first lesson I want them to get, the first thing I want them to understand is,
00:19:04
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leadership or the lack thereof is the leading cause of most of the problems in the world today, period.
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And I think a lot of people, when they think about leadership, they're thinking, well, it's being in charge of things, but leadership applies to your daily life.
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and how you even deal with your internal things you have to deal with.
00:19:27
Speaker
You have to have a plan, you have to have a system.
00:19:30
Speaker
And so you don't always have to be in charge of people to be a leader.
00:19:33
Speaker
And that's one of the things I wanna drive home.
00:19:35
Speaker
Can you say that again, please?
00:19:37
Speaker
You don't always have to be in charge of people to be a leader.
00:19:41
Speaker
You know, leading is doing what's right at all times when it's required.
00:19:47
Speaker
That's what leading is.
00:19:49
Speaker
and taking initiative and taking risks and being challenged.
00:19:56
Speaker
So here's the thing, and this is for, but now what I'm gonna talk about now is for blacks who are in a leadership position, people who are CEOs or counselors, people who have a position where they have people that work for them.
00:20:16
Speaker
One of the things I experienced whenever I was in a leadership position and in the military, if you arise to a leadership position, you're in charge of everybody.
00:20:25
Speaker
So whoever's under you, white, black, or indifferent, those are the people who work for you.
00:20:30
Speaker
I found that I always had to prove myself a little bit more than my white counterparts.
00:20:40
Speaker
You know, about, I want to say last August, and you can look this up, it's on YouTube.
00:20:45
Speaker
So the Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin, he is a black retired general.
00:20:50
Speaker
He is now President Biden's Secretary of Defense.
00:20:54
Speaker
They did a 60-minute special with him and General Johnson.
00:20:58
Speaker
He's in charge of the Air Force.
00:20:59
Speaker
He's a four-star, I think, the Air Force Chief of Staff.
00:21:02
Speaker
And they asked General Austin, they said, hey, you know,
00:21:06
Speaker
give us some history about your military background and how race played into it.
00:21:12
Speaker
And one of the things he said, and it stuck with me, and I talk about this all the time.
00:21:16
Speaker
So when he was in the 82nd Airborne Division here at Fort Bragg, he was the first black operations officer in his battalion or brigade.
00:21:25
Speaker
Now, when you're the operations officer, you're the guy who puts out all the orders for how operations are gonna be conducted.
00:21:32
Speaker
You are the guy who briefs.
00:21:34
Speaker
General Austin would let a white officer brief for him because he felt like the men were more receptive to it.
00:21:44
Speaker
And think about that.
00:21:44
Speaker
I mean, this guy, he's in charge, but he's.
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah.
00:21:47
Speaker
And then he also talked about when he became a general and he would and wearing civilian clothes and they would go somewhere like to a foreign country and they would he would get off the airplane.
00:21:57
Speaker
He said they would walk right past him.
00:22:01
Speaker
to a lesser ranking white officer thinking they were the general.
00:22:07
Speaker
So these are perceptions.
00:22:08
Speaker
These are things that are real.
00:22:10
Speaker
Now, and this is, like I said, this can be looked up.
00:22:13
Speaker
You can find this online.
00:22:14
Speaker
It's out there on YouTube.
00:22:16
Speaker
But- No, I believe it.
00:22:17
Speaker
And that's the thing.
00:22:18
Speaker
When you were speaking, I was thinking like, because I do a lot of research and study in human psychology, energy, spirituality.
00:22:26
Speaker
So my question to you,
00:22:30
Speaker
did that occurrences or those experiences come from a subconscious blueprint because what the world has programmed us to believe from history and the media, or is that something blacks in that era, that time always experienced and that they said, you know what?
00:22:46
Speaker
I'd rather be, I'd rather be, I read the, what's the word?
00:22:51
Speaker
I'd rather be, I'd rather do what's right and not what I think is smart.
00:22:54
Speaker
No, I'd rather be smart than right.
00:22:56
Speaker
And right is, I'd rather be the leader doing the right thing and I'd rather be smart and let my counterparts that will, people be receptive to, listen to them.
00:23:05
Speaker
Right.
00:23:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think he was doing what we call basically survival.
00:23:09
Speaker
Okay.
00:23:10
Speaker
Okay, got it.
00:23:11
Speaker
Because here's the thing.
00:23:13
Speaker
If he gets up and gives the briefing and half of the guys tune out,
00:23:19
Speaker
and don't pick up on everything he's saying or don't take copious notes and forget something, then that's gonna come back on him.
00:23:28
Speaker
This guy's a horrible briefer.
00:23:30
Speaker
He's responsible regardless.
00:23:31
Speaker
He's a horrible briefer.
00:23:33
Speaker
And so he is looking at it from an angle of, you know what?
00:23:37
Speaker
It's fine.
00:23:37
Speaker
I'm going to let, I am, I am comfortable enough in my own skin to let this guy breathe because it's going to do what's best for all of us, for us all.
00:23:45
Speaker
And sometimes, and that is a sacrifice that he made because yeah, he could have said, Hey, look guys, you're going to listen to me.
00:23:51
Speaker
You know, I'm going to be the one standing up here, but he didn't worry about that.
00:23:54
Speaker
You know, one of the other things he talked about too, one of the quotes he made, and I, that's one that I definitely could identify with.
00:24:01
Speaker
He said, Hey, there's not a day that I wake up
00:24:06
Speaker
that I don't take into account and think about that I'm a black man.
00:24:11
Speaker
Now think about that.
00:24:13
Speaker
And I, listen, I can identify with that wholeheartedly because again, and especially if you're in a situation where you're in a leadership position and you have a lot of responsibility.
00:24:29
Speaker
Yeah, and when you get put in a position that you've never been in and then now you're looking at things differently.
00:24:35
Speaker
And I could contribute to that saying because for me coming from Baltimore, moving to LA, never had any intentions of going on TV or doing anything in Hollywood, things changed, I got a big break.
00:24:49
Speaker
And what I had that happened to me was guilt, survivor's remorse.
00:24:55
Speaker
And I felt like I was like,
00:24:58
Speaker
wow, I'm the only one in this position.
00:25:00
Speaker
How do I maneuver through this?
00:25:02
Speaker
Not as so being a black man, but being a man that people saw to be black that was with a bunch of white people.
Identity and Colorism in Professional Spaces
00:25:11
Speaker
So they didn't know I came from Baltimore City.
00:25:14
Speaker
They thought I grew up with mom, dad, I'm from the suburbs, you carry yourself well.
00:25:18
Speaker
Here's the kicker to my life, post show in the last six, no, last 10 years, my manager.
00:25:27
Speaker
So my manager,
00:25:29
Speaker
African-American, male.
00:25:32
Speaker
He looks like he comes off from the urban community, but he grew up in a predominantly white area, Illinois, around predominantly white audience and background.
00:25:44
Speaker
So he really experienced what it's like to be neglected or looked upon or the guy who scored all the points on the team.
00:25:52
Speaker
So him and another friend, we were out one night and we were with, you know, some different type of people.
00:25:59
Speaker
And I'm not saying they got triggered by something, but I knew they was aware of something I wasn't aware of because I didn't grow up in their setting as a kid.
00:26:09
Speaker
Well, when that's where I got on when we got, when we first started, I was like, what is your perception of being black?
00:26:14
Speaker
Because a lot of people thought, oh, you experienced racism?
00:26:17
Speaker
I was like, not really.
00:26:19
Speaker
I come around black people most of my life.
00:26:22
Speaker
Right.
00:26:22
Speaker
So it's interesting.
00:26:25
Speaker
I also want to talk about, I don't know if this is a term, if this is the right definition, colorism.
00:26:32
Speaker
When I say colorism, I'm meaning like your skin color.
00:26:36
Speaker
Right?
00:26:37
Speaker
Light skinned versus dark skinned.
00:26:38
Speaker
Right, right, right.
00:26:40
Speaker
And then also like your class, like, you know, you're black but you come from the suburbs.
00:26:44
Speaker
When you go to the inner city, you're not accepted.
00:26:47
Speaker
Or light skinned versus darker skinned.
00:26:50
Speaker
Was that like a thing for you coming up?
00:26:51
Speaker
Was that a thing in the military with men and women?
00:26:54
Speaker
What's the reality?
00:26:55
Speaker
Let's speak on that.
00:26:56
Speaker
So, you know, you know why I'm laughing right now.
00:27:00
Speaker
So I got to share this with you.
00:27:01
Speaker
Yeah.
00:27:02
Speaker
Hey, look, my life's an open book.
00:27:04
Speaker
I've got all kind of issues.
00:27:06
Speaker
I'm not perfect, you know.
00:27:07
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:08
Speaker
And when I was a kid, I really struggled with being dark-skinned.
00:27:11
Speaker
I'm a dark-skinned male.
00:27:12
Speaker
Of course, you know, we call it chocolate now.
00:27:14
Speaker
Everybody's... Yeah, yeah, chocolate, baby.
00:27:16
Speaker
It's all good.
00:27:16
Speaker
Ain't no wrong way.
00:27:17
Speaker
Mars Chestnut and guys like that brought that back to us.
00:27:20
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:22
Speaker
But, you know, when I was a kid, and I was talking to my wife about this the other day, I used to put Noxzema on my face, man, to try to burn the darkness off away.
00:27:31
Speaker
Wow.
00:27:32
Speaker
Yeah, this is, and I mean, I did this daily.
00:27:34
Speaker
I would put Noxzema on my face to try to burn the darkness away.
00:27:39
Speaker
There was a kid in my blog, his name was Aubrey.
00:27:42
Speaker
He was light-skinned and bow-legged.
00:27:46
Speaker
All the girls just loved it.
00:27:47
Speaker
So man, I, so I wanted to be light-skinned and I wanted to be bow-legged, you know?
00:27:51
Speaker
And so, and you know, we grew up, when I grew up, man, everybody idolized the little light-skinned girls.
00:28:00
Speaker
You know, I mean, this was a thing.
00:28:02
Speaker
And now, and nobody taught this to me.
00:28:04
Speaker
Nobody came to me and said, hey, you need to visit.
00:28:08
Speaker
I took all this on myself.
00:28:11
Speaker
Most of the young girls that I tried to date in middle school and high school were light skinned.
00:28:17
Speaker
You know?
00:28:20
Speaker
So a lot of this is, it just permeates through society, you know?
00:28:27
Speaker
And I think, you know,
00:28:30
Speaker
Sometimes we pick up on, we do things we don't even realize we're programmed to do.
00:28:35
Speaker
And that's what I was just saying.
00:28:37
Speaker
You know, well, my era growing up, you know, you had that pretty red bone, the light skinned girl, right?
00:28:44
Speaker
Or my friend, she made me aware of this.
00:28:47
Speaker
She was like, well, I'll come from, we always say she's pretty for, what did you say?
00:28:53
Speaker
pretty dark skinned girl.
00:28:54
Speaker
She pretty for a darker girl.
00:28:56
Speaker
Yeah.
00:28:56
Speaker
And I'm like, so when you think about it, we used to say this consistently.
00:29:00
Speaker
Right.
00:29:01
Speaker
What you mean she pretty for a dark girl?
00:29:03
Speaker
What does that mean?
00:29:04
Speaker
Like, if she pretty, she's pretty.
00:29:06
Speaker
But you're not even aware of the programming because everyone is saying it and it becomes a thing.
00:29:10
Speaker
So I didn't even know that was a thing.
00:29:12
Speaker
And then with me being lighter skinned, you know, people even thought you were soft or you was weak.
00:29:18
Speaker
So they would try you.
00:29:19
Speaker
So it's just funny, it ebbs and flows, but it's a reality that a lot of people face.
00:29:25
Speaker
We got mental health in these days, we got bullying, that's a big thing.
00:29:29
Speaker
And I think it's important for people to own their skin color, for them to own their power, but more importantly, understand it and saying, look, it's okay.
00:29:37
Speaker
But the media does promote certain imagery and things that make people think I want to be this and not what I am already.
00:29:45
Speaker
And you know, colorism is one part of it.
00:29:48
Speaker
But another thing that I've experienced throughout my career with some Blacks that got into positions
00:29:58
Speaker
of leadership and or got into organizations where there were very few African-Americans, a lot of times you would see these individuals morph.
00:30:09
Speaker
And what I mean by that is they start taking on interest, appearances and doing things to kind of fit in.
00:30:19
Speaker
I will tell you,
00:30:22
Speaker
That is, I am like dead set against that.
00:30:25
Speaker
And I recommend to anyone when you go somewhere, because normally when you conduct an interview for a job, whatever you presented that interview should be what and who you are.
00:30:37
Speaker
And a lot of times that is what that organization has decided.
00:30:41
Speaker
Yeah, this is what we want.
00:30:43
Speaker
We want Eric.
00:30:44
Speaker
We want the Eric that sat before us.
00:30:45
Speaker
But what happens a lot of times when people get the job and then they get in there and
00:30:50
Speaker
they don't fit in quite like they probably think they should.
00:30:53
Speaker
They start morphing into something else.
00:30:56
Speaker
I mean, I've seen guys do everything from start riding Harleys, you know, I mean like, I've seen this.
00:31:04
Speaker
I saw a young man come in.
00:31:07
Speaker
He was, you know, just young black guy, you know,
00:31:15
Speaker
He didn't have an interest like Harley Davidson or anything like that.
00:31:20
Speaker
Now, I'm not saying you can't pick up on it and start becoming it, but he started dipping tobacco.
00:31:26
Speaker
I mean, you know, he started wearing like the chains hanging from his pockets.
00:31:29
Speaker
I mean, he was totally, and, you know, I think people can see through that.
00:31:35
Speaker
Yeah.
00:31:36
Speaker
You know, and I think, I don't think anyone has to do that to fit in.
00:31:40
Speaker
I think you need to be yourself.
00:31:43
Speaker
whatever you bring to the table, work hard.
00:31:46
Speaker
And I think you'll be fine on the job, but don't morph.
00:31:51
Speaker
And that's a little bit off of the colorism thing, but- No, I think that's a great point because- Yeah, it's something that I- Yeah, to follow up, how do you teach that?
00:32:01
Speaker
Because when I came to LA and I got my first corporate job, I was a manager at Amicron, you gotta be clean shaven, the culture is predominantly white.
00:32:11
Speaker
So-
00:32:12
Speaker
What I adapted, what I morphed to, I don't wanna say morph, but what I picked up on was that I was myself, but I was myself for the benefit of what I was doing.
00:32:23
Speaker
So what happened was I portrayed myself as, oh yeah, what's up?
00:32:29
Speaker
He's a nice guy, which I am, which you would never thought I'd come from the hood of Baltimore city.
00:32:36
Speaker
Always smiling, ultra positive, extra positivity.
00:32:41
Speaker
And, but what I did realize coming from my background, it would be, I got to a point where I'm like, man, I'm cursing a lot.
00:32:49
Speaker
You know, I'm cursing a lot from the music I'm listening to.
00:32:52
Speaker
I'm speaking really fast, right?
00:32:55
Speaker
Because I'm not really pronouncing, because this is what happened to me in college.
00:32:59
Speaker
Say that again.
00:33:00
Speaker
What's your name?
00:33:02
Speaker
I say, what?
00:33:04
Speaker
I used to get offended.
00:33:05
Speaker
It's Eric.
00:33:06
Speaker
And he's like, earn?
00:33:08
Speaker
So then I started realizing like, oh, I'm not finishing my words.
00:33:12
Speaker
It's Eric.
00:33:12
Speaker
It's not Baltimore, it's Baltimore.
00:33:15
Speaker
So then you have things of code switching.
00:33:17
Speaker
But my dialect says I should say Baltimore.
00:33:21
Speaker
So how does a person, because my cousin and I, we talk about that.
00:33:26
Speaker
How does a person not get so ingrained into that?
00:33:31
Speaker
Not taking sides and not morphing, but
00:33:34
Speaker
having balance because then let's take it to another level.
00:33:37
Speaker
I believe 85 to 90% of people in life are not themselves, especially when it comes to work.
00:33:44
Speaker
And that's why I'm not for the cancer culture.
00:33:47
Speaker
Yeah.
00:33:47
Speaker
So, so you're talking about, so you're talking about, so what you talked about.
00:33:52
Speaker
So, so I, the way I'm speaking now, this is not how I spoke.
00:33:57
Speaker
when I was a young man growing up in Georgia.
00:34:00
Speaker
I used a lot of slang, you know, from the South, man.
00:34:03
Speaker
I mean, you know, talk crunk, you know.
00:34:06
Speaker
Yeah, me, yeah, me, you already know.
00:34:08
Speaker
I mean, that's how we spoke.
00:34:12
Speaker
But now, I think what I'm not saying, don't improve how you communicate to better yourself.
00:34:20
Speaker
That's not what I'm saying.
00:34:21
Speaker
What I'm saying is don't,
00:34:25
Speaker
pick up hobbies and start doing things and that to fit in, you know, cause, cause the way I look at this, if you improve your addiction or improve the way you communicate orally and written, that there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
00:34:43
Speaker
That is that I don't look at that as morphing.
00:34:46
Speaker
I look at that as improving yourself.
00:34:48
Speaker
But if you're, um,
00:34:50
Speaker
If you're riding Harley Davidson, and you don't care about motorcycles, then that is more.
00:34:58
Speaker
And that's the distinction.
00:35:02
Speaker
Because I definitely understand what you're saying.
00:35:03
Speaker
Yeah, because obviously, I've had, having written a couple of books, and I'm a member of the National Speakers Association, so I speak to audiences all the time.
00:35:14
Speaker
And I have to connect with everyone.
00:35:16
Speaker
I can't just connect with one group of people.
00:35:20
Speaker
But, but, but growing up in the black community, you know, it, it, it was a lot for me.
00:35:25
Speaker
I mean, I am grateful for that because I understand, you know, struggle.
00:35:30
Speaker
I understand, you know, uh, what it, what it means to, uh, to, to, to not have.
00:35:36
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:37
Speaker
And, and, uh, and I understand discrimination big time, you know, growing up in the sixties and seventies, man, I mean, that was, there was a lot going on then.
00:35:43
Speaker
And, and, uh,
00:35:44
Speaker
So so that's what I tried to encapsulate in my book and talk about and try to give, you know, some lessons and some examples and some strategies to help people navigate their way through this stuff.
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah.
00:35:58
Speaker
And I think perception is important.
00:36:00
Speaker
You know, when I went on The Bachelor, The Bachelorette, ABC, you know, that wasn't until I really could see the divide in America.
00:36:08
Speaker
Cause that was the first time in my life I see like, oh, okay.
00:36:14
Speaker
I see what's going on.
00:36:15
Speaker
Oh, this is what we're doing.
00:36:17
Speaker
Got it.
00:36:18
Speaker
And then I had to realize my white counterparts, I love them, but they didn't experience life the way I did.
00:36:25
Speaker
Once I left their present, you know, even like coming from the hood, right?
00:36:29
Speaker
Oh, you Hollywood now.
00:36:30
Speaker
You ain't got no time for us.
00:36:32
Speaker
Big Hollywood, big shot.
00:36:33
Speaker
You ain't got time for us.
00:36:35
Speaker
I'm like, damn, you getting exiled for growing and evolving.
00:36:40
Speaker
No, man, you phony.
00:36:41
Speaker
I'm like, what is this about?
00:36:44
Speaker
You know?
00:36:45
Speaker
You know what's interesting?
00:36:47
Speaker
You talked about that.
00:36:49
Speaker
And so just truth in lending, I love Bachelor Nation.
00:36:53
Speaker
I mean, I try not to watch it, you know what I mean?
00:36:56
Speaker
But my wife watches it and it's just good entertainment, man.
00:37:00
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:37:01
Speaker
And they do some hella editing in there because I know.
00:37:04
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah.
00:37:05
Speaker
But you know, it's interesting you brought that up about you being, I don't, so you would have to, and you're a young man, you probably remember that.
00:37:13
Speaker
So Madonna wrote a book years ago.
00:37:17
Speaker
I think the name of the book was called Sex.
00:37:19
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:19
Speaker
A lot of pictures in that book.
00:37:21
Speaker
A lot of pictures in it, right?
00:37:22
Speaker
Yeah.
00:37:23
Speaker
And some of the stuff was pretty graphic.
00:37:25
Speaker
Well, you know who Big Daddy Kane is, the rapper?
00:37:27
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:37:29
Speaker
So Big Daddy Kane did a couple of shots, photo shots in that book.
00:37:36
Speaker
Okay.
00:37:37
Speaker
Man, listen, there was no Twitter back then, but man, I'm telling you, like, magazines like The Source, and they came after him, and he would have been canceled
00:37:47
Speaker
he would have actually been canceled.
00:37:50
Speaker
No, and that's the thing.
00:37:51
Speaker
Like, you know, being a black man in my position and coming from a predominantly white show, I got some slack from some sisters.
00:38:00
Speaker
Oh, you know, like, you know, we get that.
00:38:02
Speaker
And it's like, people don't understand the position they put you in or the mentality, the things you have to think about when you just being yourself and you just living life.
00:38:10
Speaker
You're not even looking at it from that angle.
00:38:13
Speaker
But people are in their perspective and they don't understand what you gotta go through as an individual.
00:38:18
Speaker
So what I had to realize was that no one cares until it's them.
00:38:25
Speaker
No one is affected until they're in a position.
00:38:28
Speaker
Cause I used to be this person, oh, why would he do this?
00:38:30
Speaker
And I would never do that.
00:38:31
Speaker
And it's like, okay, it's easy to say it.
00:38:33
Speaker
Wait till you get in a position.
Community Support and Mentorship
00:38:35
Speaker
So it's funny and it's fun because I understand with lack of information, lack of awareness,
00:38:42
Speaker
and also paradigm shifting and perspective.
00:38:45
Speaker
We don't know what we don't know.
00:38:47
Speaker
So we're only speaking from our perception, which is our truth.
00:38:52
Speaker
So I can say, oh, bro, you're from the South.
00:38:54
Speaker
You haven't been near anything.
00:38:55
Speaker
You got, you was in the military.
00:38:57
Speaker
You got benefits.
00:38:58
Speaker
What do I know?
00:38:59
Speaker
You lost your mom at six years old.
00:39:01
Speaker
That's why I want to talk about how did you endure that?
00:39:04
Speaker
What was the challenges you faced with women because of that?
00:39:07
Speaker
How did you get through that?
00:39:09
Speaker
I have a friend who lost his mom last year.
00:39:12
Speaker
And you know, he told me, he said, E, I'm empty, bro.
00:39:15
Speaker
That was my pride and joy.
00:39:16
Speaker
I don't know what to do.
00:39:17
Speaker
I'm empty.
00:39:17
Speaker
Money won't change it.
00:39:19
Speaker
That's a different fight, you know?
00:39:21
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:22
Speaker
And definitely, you know, just to speak about my mother a little bit, you know, I remember her.
00:39:25
Speaker
We were we were almost inseparable.
00:39:27
Speaker
I mean, she I was with her all the time.
00:39:28
Speaker
My father worked and, you know, my father struggled with the bottle a little bit.
00:39:33
Speaker
He had some alcohol problems.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:39:35
Speaker
So when when she died at six years old, when I was six years old, it was just me and him.
00:39:41
Speaker
And he had never really spent a whole lot of time with me.
00:39:44
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:39:46
Speaker
So now I'm motherless and I'm an only child.
00:39:48
Speaker
So, you know, I'm, Hey man, I'm just out there trying to survive on my own basically.
00:39:52
Speaker
Cause while my father was at work, you know, and, and, you know, again, I'm a very grateful for those people in my neighborhood that helped me grow up.
00:40:01
Speaker
But I always felt like, and to this day, I always felt like my mother watched over me though.
00:40:06
Speaker
Like she just, you know what I mean?
00:40:07
Speaker
It was just, there were things, I mean, I've made some mistakes,
00:40:11
Speaker
that probably should have cost me dearly.
00:40:14
Speaker
You know, I won't get into them, but I never, but I somehow got out of those situations and I got out of those mistakes.
00:40:21
Speaker
So, you know, and listen, I'm not any kind of a victim because they're, look, when we're born, it's like a card game.
00:40:31
Speaker
Whenever you come into this world,
00:40:33
Speaker
It's like a hand you're dealt, man.
00:40:34
Speaker
You don't, there are kids who are born like, and I used to go in hospitals when I would go to visit and you walk by all the kids there, you know, and you see them in the, all of them in there laying side by side, they're all equal.
00:40:47
Speaker
But some of those kids are doomed the day they leave there.
00:40:50
Speaker
They will never have an opportunity for, for, for a good life.
00:40:55
Speaker
And, and it's just, and it's unfortunate, but that's kind of the, you know, the way life is sometimes.
00:40:59
Speaker
So, so for me, you know, I've, I tried to, uh,
00:41:03
Speaker
What I try to do is share as much knowledge as I can with people.
00:41:09
Speaker
I try to give back to the community that I came from as best I can.
00:41:13
Speaker
You know, I, you know, my bio is, I try not to just overload it, but, you know, I worked with at-risk youth for like 10 years.
00:41:22
Speaker
mentoring, you know, and also serve some time on some boards that work with youth organizations.
00:41:29
Speaker
So, you know, so that's kind of where my heart is, is helping young people develop, helping leaders develop.
00:41:37
Speaker
You know, like I said earlier, I truly believe that if you got good leadership, you know, everything else is easy.
00:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, and it's important because growing up, at least for me, in school, we had, they spoke on Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharper.
00:41:56
Speaker
Now you look at it, I mean, who do we look up to?
00:41:59
Speaker
We had Louis Farrakhan.
00:42:01
Speaker
As a black man, if you're in a black world, we look up to rappers and entertainers.
00:42:05
Speaker
You know, mine was Yo Gotti, Young Jeezy, Michael Jordan, LeBron James.
00:42:10
Speaker
Right.
00:42:10
Speaker
You know, and the influences in my family for men, they were in the streets.
00:42:15
Speaker
So I had to be the one and say, I can't make those decisions because I saw, I've seen where those decisions led them.
00:42:24
Speaker
So you kind of just look at life different and you understand there's a bigger world than the world you grew up in.
00:42:28
Speaker
I just think I was protected and gifted with a gift to foresee.
00:42:34
Speaker
And it led me to be in different places to make different decisions, to have a better life.
00:42:39
Speaker
And I wasn't a follower.
00:42:41
Speaker
I was always a leader, always a captain of all my teams, always the leader of the group, took care of everybody.
00:42:47
Speaker
But also being a leader comes with sacrifice.
00:42:50
Speaker
Not only comes with sacrifice, comes with taking risks, taking chances.
00:42:54
Speaker
And three, it comes with really being lonely.
00:42:57
Speaker
Yeah.
00:42:58
Speaker
One other thing too, Eric, you said earlier, and I picked up on.
00:43:02
Speaker
So you said it was your father who told you, hey, I want you, I want something better for you.
00:43:10
Speaker
And I want you to go off and
00:43:14
Speaker
Yeah.
00:43:14
Speaker
Awesome.
00:43:15
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:43:16
Speaker
Anything about it.
00:43:18
Speaker
Because that is very important.
00:43:19
Speaker
See, because one of the things and I experienced this when I was working with young men at the youth organizations, a lot of these young men don't have father figures in their lives.
00:43:30
Speaker
And and there's a point where a young man, a boy.
00:43:35
Speaker
His mother can no longer communicate with him the same way a man does, you know, and boys will always love their moms.
00:43:43
Speaker
But there's a point in life around, I would say around 14, 15 years old where they kind of feel like, hey, I'm a man now.
00:43:49
Speaker
And I, I need, you know, some manly mentoring and manly guidance.
00:43:55
Speaker
Now, I'm not saying women can't raise boys.
00:43:57
Speaker
That's not what I'm saying here.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, because a lot of women have done great jobs raising young men without fathers around.
00:44:04
Speaker
But if a male can be in their life, and that can be, it doesn't necessarily have to be a father, man.
00:44:12
Speaker
It can be a mentor.
00:44:14
Speaker
a teacher, somebody positive to look up to has a big influence on how a young black male can turn out.
00:44:23
Speaker
Yeah, and I tell my sisters and I tell all women that.
00:44:26
Speaker
I say, okay, how much money you make, how great of a mother and nurturer you are, they need men in their life.
00:44:31
Speaker
They need to be disciplined by a man, they need to hear from a man, they need to feel the presence of a man.
00:44:36
Speaker
And the funny, the interesting thing about my dad giving me that advice, my dad has never given me advice like that ever, other than don't get no felonies, sons, don't have kids too soon and keep good credit.
00:44:47
Speaker
My dad was in the streets.
00:44:49
Speaker
He was a provider.
00:44:50
Speaker
He wasn't a guide.
00:44:51
Speaker
He bought me sneakers, video games.
00:44:53
Speaker
He came to basketball games, but he never showed me how to shoot a basketball.
00:44:56
Speaker
And then I had resentment from him not being, spending quality time.
00:45:00
Speaker
And then I had resentment from my mom
00:45:03
Speaker
not being any emotionally for me.
00:45:05
Speaker
So I was just this young kid, like, yo, who loves me?
00:45:09
Speaker
So I felt unloved.
00:45:10
Speaker
So I gave all the love to my friends.
00:45:13
Speaker
And then as I got older, go back to what you said, I told my dad to this day, I said, I don't take you for granted.
00:45:18
Speaker
I'm gonna take my mother for granted.
00:45:19
Speaker
I honor both of you because the wisdom you give me is greater than anything you could have gave me materially.
00:45:25
Speaker
And I said, dad, you gave, you put that decision, you put that battery in my back in 2010.
00:45:31
Speaker
I said, look at my life, all because of one conversation.
00:45:34
Speaker
One conversation.
00:45:36
Speaker
Boom.
00:45:37
Speaker
I said, my mom told me to go to Hampton.
00:45:39
Speaker
You see what I'm saying?
00:45:41
Speaker
I wanted to go to Northeast.
00:45:42
Speaker
She said, I think you should go to Hampton.
00:45:43
Speaker
She told me to go to City College in Baltimore and then go to Hampton and VA.
00:45:48
Speaker
So when I really look at it, my parents were kind of guiding me in a way that I didn't foresee because I wanted certain things from them I wasn't getting.
00:45:57
Speaker
So one thing too, we have to understand as black men and we have to look at our roots and our ancestors, right?
00:46:06
Speaker
So my father, listen, he didn't have the tools to be a good father.
00:46:13
Speaker
I mean, and my grandfather, I've heard stories about him that weren't very flattering.
00:46:20
Speaker
He was in the streets.
00:46:21
Speaker
So we're all products of our environment, you know, and we,
00:46:25
Speaker
You can't be something you're not.
00:46:27
Speaker
You can't pass something down that you don't have.
00:46:29
Speaker
You can't get something you don't have.
00:46:30
Speaker
Right.
00:46:31
Speaker
So I so and I don't know if you have any kids or not.
00:46:33
Speaker
But what I predict, though, when you do father children, you're going to be a different kind of father.
00:46:39
Speaker
I can I can tell by talking to you.
00:46:41
Speaker
You know what I'm saying?
00:46:42
Speaker
I was like a father for a lot of people.
00:46:44
Speaker
Yeah, you're right.
00:46:44
Speaker
So that's kind of how that works.
00:46:46
Speaker
You know, so I think each generation tries to make it better.
00:46:50
Speaker
for the next.
00:46:50
Speaker
And if we do that, we can right a lot of these wrongs.
00:46:54
Speaker
But sometimes I do get a little discouraged because I feel like as black men, sometimes we don't stick with it.
00:47:04
Speaker
Relationships come and go, but I feel like if you, we should never let a relationship stop us from fathering and parenting.
00:47:11
Speaker
Oh yeah, for sure.
00:47:12
Speaker
Never.
00:47:13
Speaker
And that's the thing, like my whole point of being in my position, because, you know, having a lack of male role models and mentors, I realized I got three nephews now in a niece.
00:47:22
Speaker
So I didn't go pro in sports.
00:47:24
Speaker
I wanted to be a professional basketball player.
00:47:27
Speaker
It didn't work.
00:47:29
Speaker
Anyway, I did well in school.
00:47:30
Speaker
I graduated with honors.
00:47:32
Speaker
So the goal, once I graduated, I got to LA, I said, man, I gotta go pro in life.
00:47:36
Speaker
Have to be a professional in life.
00:47:38
Speaker
And so I started reading books.
00:47:39
Speaker
I started learning things, going to seminars.
00:47:41
Speaker
I'm like, what do I need to do to change?
00:47:43
Speaker
What would I need to do to evolve and be like men like yourself?
Moral Integrity in Leadership
00:47:47
Speaker
And I was on your page earlier.
00:47:48
Speaker
I just want you to kind of give me your interpretation of these quotes.
00:47:54
Speaker
You say, bad moral character and bad leadership
00:47:59
Speaker
Or synonyms.
00:48:00
Speaker
Or synonymous.
00:48:01
Speaker
Synonymous.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yes.
00:48:03
Speaker
And basically what that means is I don't think a bad person, a person with bad moral character, lack of integrity, can lead people effectively.
00:48:16
Speaker
I just don't believe that.
00:48:18
Speaker
You know what I mean?
00:48:20
Speaker
I think in order to lead people effectively, you've got to have some good in you.
00:48:25
Speaker
And you've got to have some moral character because a lot of times when we're in leadership positions, Eric, we're given a lot of responsibility.
00:48:34
Speaker
Like I'll give you just an example as a, like as a fortune 500 company.
00:48:38
Speaker
I mean, you're responsible for millions of dollars.
00:48:41
Speaker
Yeah.
00:48:42
Speaker
Thousands of people.
00:48:43
Speaker
You can't institute something that starts siphoning off these people's money, your investors money.
00:48:51
Speaker
You know, you can't,
00:48:53
Speaker
pay yourself under the table some side money, you know.
00:48:57
Speaker
So a lot of times, you know, we have to check ourselves.
00:49:02
Speaker
Self-regulation, doing what's right when nobody's around, you know, it's hard to do.
00:49:08
Speaker
It's very hard, you know, especially when temptation comes into it, you know.
00:49:12
Speaker
And so that's what I meant by that quote, is that, you know, I feel like if you're a person of poor moral character and
00:49:22
Speaker
And you will not be able to be an effective leader because you already have some things up there mentally that you're dealing with that you just, you won't be able to make the right decisions.
00:49:35
Speaker
You won't be able to do the right thing when the right thing is required.
00:49:40
Speaker
And do you say, how does one develop good moral character?
00:49:44
Speaker
How do you develop that to have good moral leadership?
00:49:47
Speaker
How does that happen for a person?
00:49:49
Speaker
So one of the things, so from the time we're born, we're taught right and wrong.
00:49:55
Speaker
One of the first things our parents start teaching us is right and wrong.
00:50:00
Speaker
Our teachers are
00:50:01
Speaker
you know, people, our aunts and uncles, people in our lives start teaching us right and wrong.
00:50:07
Speaker
Then we go to school, we're taught right and wrong.
00:50:10
Speaker
We've got laws.
00:50:11
Speaker
So we know, hey, listen, I know if I go down the street here and rob the store up the street, there's gonna be consequences behind it.
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:50:23
Speaker
So I think, what I think is,
00:50:28
Speaker
helps is if you try to live your right life and do what's right.
00:50:32
Speaker
You know, a friend of mine asked me years ago, he said, hey, man, I'm getting ready to take a leadership position.
00:50:36
Speaker
And he says, what advice would you give to me?
00:50:40
Speaker
And I had gotten this from someone else years ago.
00:50:42
Speaker
And I said, hey, you should always be able to get a good night's sleep.
00:50:47
Speaker
Hey, what does that mean?
00:50:50
Speaker
Oh, that's good.
00:50:51
Speaker
Listen, OK, so now we all have.
00:50:54
Speaker
Listen, we've all stayed up in bed all night.
00:50:58
Speaker
just with our eyes wide open because we know we did something wrong or we know we agreed to something we probably shouldn't have agreed to.
00:51:06
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:07
Speaker
Or we implemented something we probably shouldn't have implemented.
00:51:11
Speaker
So then you can't sleep because you know you did wrong.
00:51:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:15
Speaker
You're sitting there.
00:51:17
Speaker
You're sitting there in the middle of the night, eyes wide awake because you can't sleep now.
00:51:23
Speaker
Conversely, when you
00:51:25
Speaker
do the right thing, even if you feel, even if it turns out to be the wrong thing, but your heart was pure and your intentions were good, you sleep like a baby.
00:51:33
Speaker
Yeah.
00:51:34
Speaker
That stuff is not keeping you up at night because you thought it out
00:51:39
Speaker
You made a plan, you planned it out, you said, okay, this is what I'm gonna do.
00:51:43
Speaker
And that's very heavy when it comes into being a leader and having people you're responsible for.
00:51:49
Speaker
And listen, I've made decisions, personnel decisions with people that worked for me that weren't right and I knew they weren't right.
00:51:58
Speaker
Some of it could have been bias, some of it could have been other factors that made me make a decision that I knew was wrong.
00:52:07
Speaker
And I stay up all night thinking about it because you're impacting people's lives here.
00:52:11
Speaker
You're responsible for developing individuals and making sure that they can provide for their families and that the company or the organization thrives so everybody can live the American dream.
00:52:29
Speaker
That's a lot of responsibility.
00:52:30
Speaker
It's crucial and it's vital because I believe some of us
00:52:35
Speaker
are born leaders.
00:52:36
Speaker
As a kid, I always felt the pressure to be responsible for people.
00:52:39
Speaker
Not even like they had nothing to do with my life, but I always was on this prowl.
00:52:43
Speaker
I gotta get better.
00:52:43
Speaker
I gotta get up early.
00:52:44
Speaker
I need to like iron my clothes.
00:52:46
Speaker
I need to go to school.
00:52:47
Speaker
I need to do good.
00:52:48
Speaker
It was like subconsciously.
00:52:49
Speaker
And then as I've gotten older, I talked to my sister.
00:52:52
Speaker
She was like, it was always disciplined.
00:52:54
Speaker
You always took the same route to school.
00:52:56
Speaker
You always ate oatmeal in the morning.
00:52:57
Speaker
You wouldn't let me hang around your friends.
00:52:59
Speaker
You were super disciplined.
00:53:00
Speaker
She's like, I was envious of you for that.
00:53:03
Speaker
I'm like, really?
00:53:03
Speaker
She was like, bro, kids were intimidated by you.
00:53:06
Speaker
I'm like, wow, I was nice.
00:53:07
Speaker
Like you was just so focused at an early age.
00:53:10
Speaker
You was like a grown man in a boy's body.
00:53:13
Speaker
And so I believe some of us are giving it and some of us, we have to learn from experience.
00:53:19
Speaker
You have another quote, you say, learn to thrive
00:53:22
Speaker
outside your comfort zone because that is where you spend most of your time.
00:53:27
Speaker
Most of your time?
00:53:28
Speaker
Can you put that together?
00:53:29
Speaker
What do you mean by that?
00:53:30
Speaker
I love the first half.
00:53:32
Speaker
So here's the thing.
00:53:35
Speaker
And so the other quote that I saw that and it wasn't that one of mine was original, but the other one was a comfort zone is a nice place, but nothing ever grows there.
00:53:45
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely.
00:53:46
Speaker
So here's the thing about the comfort zone.
00:53:48
Speaker
So
00:53:50
Speaker
what I have experienced in business and in life is nothing.
00:53:55
Speaker
Rarely, rarely do things go as I plan them.
00:53:58
Speaker
I mean, I could sit down here, especially when I was working for the government.
00:54:01
Speaker
Now, if you want to see some stuff, man, the government, man, I'm telling you, you know, and that's what I always tell people, the conspiracy theorists out there who say, well, the government's behind this.
00:54:11
Speaker
I said, dude, we couldn't plan a meeting.
00:54:13
Speaker
We could not come together on what time to meet.
00:54:16
Speaker
So for us to, for the government to plan this elaborate scheme, you know,
00:54:20
Speaker
But anyway, so my thing, whenever I tried to do something or plan my best laid plans, they always, there was some monkey wrench thrown in there at the last minute.
00:54:31
Speaker
And I had to make adjustments and I had to overcome, say my equipment not working.
00:54:39
Speaker
I've scheduled this meeting with 200 people and my equipment doesn't work.
00:54:44
Speaker
Yeah.
00:54:46
Speaker
What is your backup plan?
00:54:47
Speaker
You gotta have a contingency for that.
00:54:49
Speaker
So what I started doing is making copies of stuff.
00:54:52
Speaker
I have a backup plan.
00:54:53
Speaker
I have a thumb drive in my pocket.
00:54:55
Speaker
I've got a speech on my phone that I can give out.
00:55:00
Speaker
And so that's what I mean by that, because we can have the best plan in the world, but if something goes wrong, which a lot of times it will, you have to be able to adapt.
00:55:12
Speaker
So that's what I mean by that.
00:55:14
Speaker
learn to live outside your comfort zone, because that's where you're going to be most of the time.
Progress, Involvement, and Continuing Struggles
00:55:18
Speaker
Yeah, and I'll add to that.
00:55:19
Speaker
I'm taking a course, and in the course, it talks about one of the steps.
00:55:24
Speaker
It said the strongest and the smartest are not the most successful or the richest.
00:55:29
Speaker
It's the people who are most adaptable.
00:55:31
Speaker
Adaptability.
00:55:33
Speaker
You have to be able to adapt at all times.
00:55:35
Speaker
I agree with that.
00:55:36
Speaker
If you want to evolve and succeed.
00:55:39
Speaker
So before we get out of here, I just have one question.
00:55:44
Speaker
maybe two, and then I want you to talk a little bit more about the book, where we can get it, and what's your synopsis.
00:55:50
Speaker
You talked about it before.
00:55:52
Speaker
So as a Black race and culture, what do you think in this moment right now is working for us?
00:56:00
Speaker
And what do you think is challenging us?
00:56:02
Speaker
Or what is our biggest struggle?
00:56:06
Speaker
So what I think is working for us, I see,
00:56:13
Speaker
and people may differ with my opinions on this, but I see a lot of opportunities for African-Americans, for black people.
00:56:21
Speaker
And I see them, you've got a black vice president.
00:56:26
Speaker
We've had a black president for eight years.
00:56:31
Speaker
I think the economy is turning around, there's opportunities in education.
00:56:38
Speaker
And I think overall,
00:56:44
Speaker
you know, post pandemic.
00:56:45
Speaker
And I think we're, I'm noticing now, I just yesterday, I think I watched the numbers are starting to come down on this pandemic.
00:56:51
Speaker
So I think we're, we're moving in the right direction when it comes to progress as far as getting opportunities.
00:57:03
Speaker
Okay, I like that.
00:57:05
Speaker
One of the things I would like to see more of, I would like to see more blacks involved in their local government.
00:57:14
Speaker
And what I'm talking about is school boards, district, city council, town council, this type stuff.
00:57:23
Speaker
Because I think a lot of times we focus on Washington, DC so much
00:57:28
Speaker
when that stuff doesn't necessarily impact us as directly as having the right school board members.
00:57:34
Speaker
If you've got kids in school, you want to make sure you've got people on that board that are going to look out for kids and have the requisite experience to look out for kids.
00:57:43
Speaker
One of the things about our politics in America is anybody can run.
00:57:48
Speaker
You don't have to have any experience.
00:57:50
Speaker
You just have to have campaign money.
00:57:54
Speaker
and have people, you know, back you.
00:57:57
Speaker
So I think we should get, that's one of the things that I would like to see more of.
00:58:02
Speaker
As far as your second part of that was, what do you think is hurting us?
00:58:08
Speaker
Yeah, we struggle with the most that we probably could get some help or be more aware of.
00:58:12
Speaker
Yeah, so I definitely, I think,
00:58:16
Speaker
Well, one of the things I wish we could do, I wish we could get people to treat us on our merit and not lump us in.
00:58:24
Speaker
Just give us opportunity.
00:58:25
Speaker
Give us a chance to prove who we are.
00:58:28
Speaker
Listen, there are bad people and there are good people in all walks of life, in all races.
00:58:35
Speaker
But one of the things that bothers me is, especially as a Black male, you're automatically lumped in and you're
00:58:45
Speaker
You're a look that, you know, I told you about the vacations I take, you know, my wife and I, we go, we go to sometimes resorts, we go to nice places.
00:58:52
Speaker
And I will tell you, I get looks, I get, you know, people mistake me for a worker, you know,
00:59:03
Speaker
I've gone down to the gym on the first floor and people leave.
00:59:09
Speaker
And look, none of this stuff, now I have the mental capacity to deal with all this.
00:59:13
Speaker
I've dealt with it for a long, long time.
00:59:16
Speaker
But I can understand how it can really frustrate young black men and young black people.
00:59:21
Speaker
So I think the biggest struggle we have is just in 2022,
00:59:28
Speaker
It's still being accepted as productive members of society, man, which we have been throughout our history.
00:59:37
Speaker
Throughout our history here, we have contributed greatly to this nation.
00:59:43
Speaker
So what I would like to see is people treat us that way.
00:59:47
Speaker
Absolutely.
00:59:49
Speaker
We deserve that just like everyone else.
00:59:54
Speaker
So that's kind of.
00:59:56
Speaker
No, I respect that.
00:59:57
Speaker
And it's true.
00:59:58
Speaker
And it's like it is a time and place where you do not on a surface level, but internally, you feel like you got to prove yourself.
01:00:07
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
01:00:08
Speaker
You know, especially when it comes to like professional stuff outside of sports and athletics.
01:00:15
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:15
Speaker
You got to prove yourself.
01:00:17
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:18
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:19
Speaker
So I pride myself on education, information changes situation, even with, you know, going to getting bank loans and
01:00:27
Speaker
improving your credit, getting a certain type of credit cards and osmosis, you know, hanging with different type of people just to see what are they learning?
01:00:35
Speaker
What are they thinking about?
01:00:37
Speaker
A client of mine, George, got pretty successful.
01:00:41
Speaker
And I was asking him, I said, look, why does the bank want to acquire so much debt?
01:00:46
Speaker
He said, well, look, the bank's money is a product and they need to sell their product, their money to make money.
01:00:53
Speaker
And I was like, oh, that makes sense.
01:00:56
Speaker
You know, so things like that.
01:00:58
Speaker
There's a movie, I believe, I don't know if I remember the term, came out in the 70s, the title.
01:01:04
Speaker
It's something like the crook by the door or the guy infiltrated, the spook by the door infiltrated CIA.
01:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, so, you know, I don't know if that was your intention when you went to army, I don't think it was, but I think for me, it's not that energy, but it's more so, I wanna know what you know, like, what do you know?
01:01:21
Speaker
How are you doing this?
01:01:22
Speaker
You've been doing this for three decades, how?
01:01:24
Speaker
yeah oh okay so you weigh your mindset your mentality yeah oh you don't have trauma around that oh okay oh you grew up different yeah so what you're saying is you're allowing yourself to be mentored yes now i want to talk about that real briefly too because one of the things that black men in particular struggle with is mentoring mentor relationships um you know one of the big uh
01:01:53
Speaker
problems we're having right now on college campuses, both both white colleges and HBCUs is the African-American male population is dwindling fast.
01:02:05
Speaker
And one of the things is that has come out is that young male young males won't go to the guidance counselor to figure out, you know, to kind of get back on track.
01:02:15
Speaker
It's like, hey, I can't ask for help.
01:02:17
Speaker
I'm soft.
01:02:18
Speaker
You know, you're soft if you need help.
01:02:19
Speaker
You know, you're soft if you go to somebody and ask for assistance, you know.
01:02:25
Speaker
And this is a mentality that has been in our communities
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
01:02:28
Speaker
for many, many years.
01:02:28
Speaker
I mean, I grew up that way.
01:02:30
Speaker
I mean, look, you just didn't complain, man.
01:02:32
Speaker
You sucked everything up.
01:02:33
Speaker
You dealt with it your own way.
01:02:35
Speaker
You internalized it.
01:02:35
Speaker
But you didn't go and say, hey, I don't understand this.
01:02:38
Speaker
I need help.
01:02:40
Speaker
Couldn't do it.
01:02:41
Speaker
So, so that's one of the things.
01:02:43
Speaker
So, so I, so I applaud you for, you know, saying that you allow yourself to be mentored.
01:02:47
Speaker
Cause I think that is a very important.
01:02:50
Speaker
I mean, even at my age now, I still have people that I lean on for information, you know, because we don't know, we don't have it all.
01:02:58
Speaker
I've got a couple of friends.
01:02:59
Speaker
I've got one that is a psychologist.
01:03:01
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:02
Speaker
And I talked to him regularly and then, you know, that guy, you know, he's trained.
01:03:07
Speaker
So he understands human behavior and a lot of the things I run by him, you know, we discuss it.
01:03:13
Speaker
So there's nothing wrong with that.
01:03:14
Speaker
Yeah, and I love learning.
01:03:16
Speaker
I'm a lifelong nerd.
01:03:17
Speaker
Like I'm always be learning to ask questions to better my understanding so I can add value to the people I'm trying to teach and motivate.
01:03:24
Speaker
So a general sergeant.
01:03:27
Speaker
Matthew R. Drayton, thank you.
01:03:29
Speaker
Thank you for your time.
01:03:30
Speaker
Thank you for your energy.
01:03:31
Speaker
Where can we get your book?
01:03:33
Speaker
Where is it?
01:03:33
Speaker
Leading While Black.
01:03:35
Speaker
We got to get it.
01:03:36
Speaker
I need to put in my order today.
01:03:38
Speaker
So I don't know if it's on Amazon or it's on your website.
01:03:41
Speaker
We got to get it.
01:03:43
Speaker
Yep.
01:03:44
Speaker
So you can find the book on Amazon.com.
01:03:47
Speaker
Yeah.
01:03:47
Speaker
My website is Matt Drayton.com.
01:03:50
Speaker
That leading while black and succeeding while black are both on there as well, as well as my social media handles, all of them.
01:03:59
Speaker
So please follow me on social media.
01:04:03
Speaker
I try to post positive things most of the time, every now and then, you know, I'll slide a picture of my food in there.
01:04:09
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:10
Speaker
I love to eat, you know, so I don't have to weigh in anymore.
01:04:14
Speaker
When I was in the military, you know, I had to weigh in all the time.
01:04:17
Speaker
Right, right.
01:04:17
Speaker
Yeah, they don't play that.
01:04:18
Speaker
Right.
01:04:19
Speaker
But and I still, you know, I still work out and try.
01:04:21
Speaker
We know we never did talk about the fitness stuff, but that's OK.
01:04:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:04:24
Speaker
Well, I mean, we can we can end with this.
01:04:26
Speaker
So so to everyone listening, we're going to finish this interview like very soon.
01:04:31
Speaker
But before we got on, he spoke on the elderly.
01:04:36
Speaker
And young trainers.
01:04:37
Speaker
So young trainers, fitness trainers, male, female, be aware that the same energy you give young counterparts of people 20, 30s, 40s, you should give to elderly.
01:04:48
Speaker
And so my interpretation of my perspective and experience, my older clients are more driven and motivated than my younger clients.
01:04:57
Speaker
I told my client the other day, he's 66 years old, one of my mentors.
01:05:01
Speaker
I said, you know what I like about you?
01:05:02
Speaker
And he was tired.
01:05:03
Speaker
He's, oh man, those hurt.
01:05:05
Speaker
I said, you know what I like about you?
01:05:06
Speaker
You show up no matter what's going on in your life.
01:05:09
Speaker
You come to the gym and you give me the best you can give.
01:05:12
Speaker
And that's all I asked for.
01:05:14
Speaker
66 years old.
01:05:15
Speaker
This guy's uber successful, you know, has a lot of responsibility, but this guy shows up twice a week.
01:05:22
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:23
Speaker
And he's on it.
01:05:24
Speaker
Yeah.
01:05:25
Speaker
And that's the key.
01:05:27
Speaker
You know, like I would tell any trainer, you know, I, I,
01:05:31
Speaker
I most recently worked at a fitness facility, a commercial fitness facility.
01:05:36
Speaker
I've worked at three, including one that was attached to a hospital.
01:05:40
Speaker
So most of our clients there just got fed to us based on health reasons.
01:05:45
Speaker
But what I've learned is,
01:05:49
Speaker
As a trainer, most of your clients will be older because most of the people that are young and in shape, they don't really need a trainer.
01:05:57
Speaker
So you'll get older clients.
01:05:58
Speaker
You'll get clients with postural distortions and other things.
01:06:02
Speaker
So just work with them and be available.
01:06:06
Speaker
Be available.
01:06:07
Speaker
And if you can get them to show up, I don't care what you do as a trainer.
01:06:10
Speaker
If nobody shows up, you ain't training.
01:06:13
Speaker
Yeah.
01:06:14
Speaker
So you have to.
01:06:16
Speaker
Motivate them to show up like you're doing with a 66-year-old gentleman.
01:06:20
Speaker
Yeah, and it's important because there's something you're gonna learn about someone who's older than you about what's in their mind at their age and how they feel about their body, how they feel about their life.
01:06:30
Speaker
And it makes you appreciate your life and what you have.
01:06:32
Speaker
So you don't take anybody for granted, no matter what age or size or what background.
01:06:37
Speaker
But you know one thing, you know, Matt Drayton is gonna teach us how to lead while Black.
01:06:44
Speaker
And if you're a leader in general, you know, you can get gems and inspiration from this book.
01:06:49
Speaker
So get the book.
01:06:50
Speaker
It's on Amazon.
01:06:51
Speaker
Follow him on Instagram.
01:06:53
Speaker
Are you on Twitter as well?
01:06:54
Speaker
I'm on Twitter.
01:06:55
Speaker
All of my handles are out on my website, mattdrayton.com.
01:07:02
Speaker
I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, all of those.
01:07:05
Speaker
So I really appreciate you having me.
01:07:07
Speaker
It was a pleasure speaking with you.
01:07:10
Speaker
Yes.
01:07:11
Speaker
I really enjoyed it.
01:07:12
Speaker
Thank you for a bigger talk conversation.
01:07:14
Speaker
This was what's needed.
01:07:15
Speaker
Thank you, brother.
01:07:16
Speaker
Love.
01:07:16
Speaker
All right, man.
01:07:17
Speaker
Much love.
01:07:18
Speaker
Peace.