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Robert Althuis - Heart Led Alpha Leadership
5 Plays3 years ago
Robert Althuis is the founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute which goes by his name Robert Althuis. He is a Board Member, Venture Partner, Serial Entrepreneur, and Founder, multiple times over. He went from massive wealth and material success to loosing it all; his family, wealth, and all he cared for. Crashing deep and having suicidal thoughts. He swam with the sharks and had become a shark. A prisoner of his own ambition; selfish, ruthless, inconsiderate, heartless, and mercenary. Loosing it all became his biggest realization in his life. His lessons, insights and wisdom are now distilled in the work that he does, giving back by coaching executives and delivering business advisory through the Sacred Wealth Institute.
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Welcome to episode number 16. I am your host Sebastian Engstrom, and today Robert Altauz joins us. He is the author of Never Enough Itis. He is also the founder of the Sacred Wealth Institute.
From Executive to Author: Robert's Journey
00:00:22
Speaker
He is an investor, a high up ranking, I mean,
00:00:27
Speaker
C level previously leader in multiple different. I mean you know of all these names if you would see him He's done it in business. He's a mogul and there's a reason why he's giving back now today That is his calling and he realized there's more to this world than money and fame
00:00:47
Speaker
He is no longer have, he doesn't have the family that he once had and he learned so many lessons and therefore he's giving that back in this book with this alpha leadership methodology as well as just helping elevate consciousness for both men and women. This is a fascinating conversation where we go into a story and learn more about this. If you feel like this was an amazing message or if you feel like the show is incredible, hey, I ask it as favor.
00:01:16
Speaker
Scroll down, hit five stars. Why? Because this helps us spread this message to more people. By doing so, you also do the good deed of the day. If you scroll down, hit five stars on Apple. Subscribe like. Thank you. I mean, thank you.
Personal Stories and American Dream Reflections
00:01:36
Speaker
Two crossfit programs, gymnastics crossfit, methodical crossfit. One is pure crossfit, mental gymnastics, Olympic weightlifting, strength, Metcon. One is just gymnastics. Both are phenomenal. I do them. I program them.
00:01:53
Speaker
The videos, the instructions, the easiness of the flow. I mean, there's a reason why I get stronger, get fitter, get more skilled. Why I'm shredded. I mean, just look at my social, right? I mean, this is what I do. And I believe in it because I've done so many different programs. I've done the wads. I've done the CrossFit. It doesn't help me because it's random every single time. This has actual very key methodology that will help you week to week to progress.
00:02:23
Speaker
If you want to check that out, safina.io or safinastrength.com and for 15% off your first month, hit caps safina15. Enjoy the conversation with Robert.
00:02:38
Speaker
Robert, I am excited, almost a bit nervous because my soul or I wouldn't say my soul is nervous. My ego is nervous. No, don't, don't let your ego talk ever. So my ego is nervous because
00:02:56
Speaker
The great challenge came up yesterday of me writing one of my high school friends who is a sales leader of a startup and I asked him to be on a podcast and I shared with him what it was going to be about and he said well there's more the bad and the ugly
00:03:19
Speaker
So I said, there's gonna be a good, bad and ugly of performance. And he said, well, most of it is bad and ugly. And I said, well, that's pretty much what this podcast is about. And I shared with him my story partly and the suicide that one of my mentors committed and a death in the family. And when I did that, I'm like, oh, holy shit.
00:03:48
Speaker
I can't be sharing this stuff on LinkedIn. And it really made me, in the beginning, I was like, oh, this is fine. This is the true message that I'm here to deliver. It doesn't matter what my ego is saying that, oh, you need to create this compelling marketing strategy and hook everyone and get everyone mesmerized by this message. But it's really ego, please step aside and let the truth come out. And that is why my ego is scared.
00:04:17
Speaker
I'm part of, I should say, that is part of me and that is why I am, fear is coming up and I know that is something that you have mastered more so. I'm sure it still comes up but you have a story around it and the business executive, the board advisor that you were once and still are today,
00:04:40
Speaker
You have a different approach. You're not suited up like I am. You have slightly more of a relaxed, a different appearance, you can say, and just the state you're in. Let me stop right there and just welcome you. Robert, freaking phenomenal to have you on your podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I think it's going to be a lot of fun. You know, we had obviously previous conversations and I so enjoyed it. And, you know, we have a little bit of a European heritage that we share and
00:05:10
Speaker
um, you know, great conversation. So I'd love to dive right into it. So appreciate you having me here. Yeah, absolutely. And an honor just to have you here. So maybe diving into that coming from Holland, as you prefer to say, we're in Netherlands. Why did you come to the United States in the very first place? Well, I what really happened is I was 21, I dropped out of college, I didn't really fit in and
00:05:37
Speaker
I didn't have my interest. I was always a little bit wild at heart and always wanted to do things a little different than most people. And so I left for Australia. Actually, I went on a one year one way ticket to Australia. I still yachts in the woods on the islands. I was a skipper. Then I had all kinds of job. I was a bus driver and
00:05:56
Speaker
kinds of things. I traveled around with a couple people and then I ended up in LA. I bought a motorbike and then I drove from the west to the east coast when I was 22 over the summer of God knows how long ago, early 90s. And then I had this epiphany to become a tennis pro. I was a very talented tennis player in my youth but I had kind of let it go and so I was a tennis pro for a couple years and I really ended up in the States. I lived in Jakarta, Indonesia for a year
00:06:21
Speaker
Really, really quick, you had this epiphany. It's usually if you're a pro athlete, it's not an epiphany. It was more like I was, I was like, I didn't want to go back to university because it didn't interest me. And, you know, I was driving my motorbike literally across the United States. And like, you know, what am I really passionate about? And I always wondered how good I could be.
00:06:43
Speaker
So that kind of became this obsession when I was done with a motorcycle trip is like, you know, why, why wouldn't I try? And I was 22. It was probably a day late and a dollar short, but you know, I tried anyway for three years and I ended up in Indonesia. I had a lot of adventures and I lived there for a year. I played with a Indonesian or train with an Asian Davis Cup team and I coached professionally there.
Cultural Perspectives on Success
00:07:05
Speaker
Uh, and then by about 25, I ended up in Atlanta just before the Olympics. And that's where I really got started. I landed in the States. I haven't left.
00:07:17
Speaker
back to night school, actually, because I didn't have my college degree. So, you know, I paid dearly for those years that I kind of backpacked and flaunted around the world. And what was it that made you venture out of the Netherlands? And let me give you a little snippet of that. Especially growing up in Sweden, there are some people, even my uncle said this, when Sauer family is considering
00:07:47
Speaker
working on moving back to Sweden. And I heard from my uncle that, well, I never understood why he lived in the United States in the very first place. And my response back is, have you ever visited? He said, no. Yeah. Well, that happens too. Yeah. Yeah. So then part of that and why I'm bringing that up, there's so much
00:08:10
Speaker
There's such a specific view on what the United States is about, or even other countries when you look at TV, and you create a very specific notion on what it is. And there are some, especially growing up on an island like I did, people never left the island. Some people barely left the island, I should say. So why did you have such a curiosity just to break free and do this? You know, Holland is a small place. It's like a little village. And I always felt like
00:08:40
Speaker
suffocating there and and so for me traveling and being in a different country was freedom was the freedom to be able to be myself nobody knew my my background nobody knew my history uh and and i i guess it's really that sense of freedom that kind of was the lure and then you know i fell in love with the united states but i i started coming here in the 80s and 90s i do think the country has changed a lot i also think you cannot really say
00:09:07
Speaker
The United States is the same place because, you know, there's very different vibes and energies and different places in different areas of the United States. I mean, California is vastly different from New York and everything in between. So
00:09:21
Speaker
And many people in Europe just don't have that concept that it's such a huge country and it's got such diversity, both in landscape, but also population, ethnicities, on every level. So it's very hard to put the United States in a box, I think. You shouldn't even try.
Real Estate Success and Personal Challenges
00:09:43
Speaker
So why I'm partly bringing it up, having shared so many paths with many different international
00:09:55
Speaker
internationals from many different countries and and and one of the one can say honors of my life just happened last week on friday i was uh so i'm now a u.s citizen which is freaking incredible it's been 11 years congratulations thank you uh but on that journey there's always at the very core it's been the chase of the american dream um and that has been
00:10:18
Speaker
for me, a liberation, a a ticket to freedom, but it's also been the devastation. Because in the glory, I lost myself and it could have I could have lost mean everything. Luckily, I don't I didn't. In your journey,
00:10:43
Speaker
has been very interesting when it comes to exploring those concepts. Maybe we even dive into those concepts. Sure, sure. Well, I'd be remiss to not say that, you know, I have a book coming out, Never Enough Ideas, which really chronicles the kind of my life here in the United States and, you know, my rise to fame, so to speak, whatever fame that was. But
00:11:09
Speaker
and then you know this epic fall from grace and that whole trajectory I describe in the book and then the lessons I learned on how to get out of it and how I became you know what you're looking at right now because I do still sit in boardrooms I still you know I still do business but I have changed fundamentally really within and in the United States it's you know it's a beautiful country in its excess as well
00:11:34
Speaker
And so, you know, when you wanna pursue your dreams and you wanna go big, there's no better country to do it. I mean, there's anything is possible in this country and much less so in Europe and other parts of the world, I think, where things are just much more subdued and people are holding you back. And here almost society is egging you on to make it even bigger, even grander. There's no limits, right? We don't like having any limits in this country. The problem is that I think over
00:12:04
Speaker
over the decades and as public culture and societal norms changed we've kind of lost ourselves in that and so now we're all in this carousel just chasing relentlessly all these things that we think we need to have to either be happy or fulfilled or joyous
00:12:21
Speaker
And we lose ourselves in it. And it's gotten to a point where it's a breaking point, I think, because I see so much of
Ego, Values, and Relationship Realizations
00:12:30
Speaker
this. And I was an extreme example of it. I'm a very competitive guy. And so in this country, I've thrived because I love the fact that everything is measured and everything is ranked. But I've thrived in that environment.
00:12:44
Speaker
I was always a, you know, a BC student in Holland because it was past Phil. So we'll get to shift. Why would you try any harder? Because, you know, if you just pass, you know, it's fine. And I remember my first semester here in college, I had an A and a B. And it's got a funny story. And so someone told me that's cum laude. I said, what's that? So I go into the student handbook and I looked that up. And I see like there's magna cum laude and summa cum laude.
00:13:12
Speaker
So I calculate all the classes I have left and I had 27 straight A's after that. And I graduated summa cum laude. And it was just this example of, you know, if you put that carrot out there, I will go run as fast as I can. And, you know, I got caught up in that in every area of my life in the United States. And it was like you say, it was beautiful because I pushed myself and I was very successful in many different levels, but I also lost myself along the way. Right. And I went overboard on this stuff.
00:13:40
Speaker
And so much so that I started losing myself in it. I started losing what's really dear to me. I started losing my values. I started losing just about everything. Because I got so obsessed with making money and having power and being bigger and measuring up. And of course, all these are just internal wounds. They're just like a self-warf that you're trying to fill up with things on the outside. And it's never going to work. So you keep chasing.
00:14:06
Speaker
going after it and it never quite seems to work because you get this little fix this little sugar rush you know when you achieve something but then you're already thinking about the next thing you want to have the next thing you got to accomplish the next uh you know car you want to have or house or the next woman you want to chase or whatever it is it doesn't even matter what it is it's just you're always just on this carousel of hunting
00:14:29
Speaker
So I definitely got lost in that and eventually the universe knocked me off my horse and said, you got a couple of lessons to learn. And, um, you know, I, some humility there. I, uh, I got the lessons I needed. You said that you started losing your values and things that mattered outside of your performance and out the door. How did you start noticing that?
00:14:58
Speaker
How did that show up for you? And why did you choose the performance? Well, there were there were several instances. So I had, you know, I was in real estate development, I built airports around the world, I came out of GE, I bought a business, and I went into the business for myself around the financial crisis time. And I've won a lot of business in Latin America.
00:15:18
Speaker
And some of it I was working with big pension funds and these were large commercial transactions, you know, tens or hundreds of millions of dollars. And I was the operating partner and I started, I was so aggressive in wanting to expand and grow that business. I so wanted to prove myself. And then when I had a little bit of success, and I've had had some success over my corporate career too, but everything just egged me on to go harder and faster and be more merciless about it really.
00:15:48
Speaker
And so during that period of time, I was in Latin America, you know, business practices are different in Latin America and I felt threatened by that and I started swimming with the sharks and I became a shark. So, you know, I started being less compassionate, you know, less forthright, everything became a chess game, everything became, you know, I saw
00:16:10
Speaker
Um, everything was a competition. I was, I was in competition with everybody. I saw everybody as just, you know, if you were in my way, I was just going to pulverize you and just run through you. And, and that isn't really my spirit. That's not really my, my heart is. I mean, I actually really care a lot for people. And I started to notice that, you know, my narcissism grew, my arrogance grew. Um,
00:16:33
Speaker
But you know, on the outside, I was very successful. So you get rewarded in a way because you know, like we talked about your LinkedIn profile looks great, and everybody thinks you're the shit and you know, you're making so much money and you have this beautiful wife and a house and a car and or cars and you know, you have everything. But I started, you know, my marriage started also kind of disconnecting. I was much harder to reach. I was gone a lot.
00:16:58
Speaker
I started going local in Latin America, so I started cheating on my wife. I was just full of myself, and I thought I was in a way invincible, but it all came from fear. It all came from not feeling enough.
00:17:18
Speaker
measuring up, wanting and seeking some kind of recognition. I didn't have that awareness at the time. I didn't know that that was really driving me. I just thought I was just a really ambitious alpha male and this is
Family Dynamics and Societal Expectations
00:17:31
Speaker
what you do. You go out there and you're just merciless and you just relentlessly pursue all these things. And I didn't have a good eye for how much pain I was covered, how much I was hurting other people along the way.
00:17:49
Speaker
Some people that I pushed out of the way that I was competitive with. But also especially my wife and even close friends and people that I just kind of left for dead because I was just too busy. I was too busy going forward and moving. And this continued. And there's been many jumps, or I shouldn't say jumps, transitions in different pursuits.
00:18:18
Speaker
How long would you say this went on for and what was that journey like? I'm sure that it took. I think it happened for ever since I left Holland early because I was always really chasing something and
00:18:31
Speaker
It just got worse and worse over time because I, in a way, success this year, it can be an enemy, right? Because I was having success. I was having success with just, you know, being in this very masculine energy of just pushing and hustling and action and, and just force, just sheer force. I was just relentless and I was so driven. You know, I was unstoppable in that sense.
00:19:00
Speaker
But, you know, I was hollowing out on the inside because it was all driven from insecurity, from fear, from, you know, I wanted to be enough. I wanted to be seen. I wanted to be recognized. I wanted people to think I was smart, that I was successful. That's where it was coming from. It wasn't coming for the love of what I was doing. It wasn't like I was so passionate about these projects I was building. There were elements of it that I liked, but
00:19:27
Speaker
that wasn't really what was driving it. And so I'm a big believer now that if you're not passionate about what you do, you know, you're always in some way are going to sacrifice, you know, some, some, something internally that wants to come out of you. And this is why it's so important to find your why. But I, I, I wasn't even thinking about my why I was just thinking about I want to be successful in the way the matrix counts success.
00:19:53
Speaker
Which is mostly money, power, prestige, status. That's how we measure success in the matrix. So those were my metrics. And I just wanted to excel and exceed anything I possibly could. And as soon as I would get to some level that I had set for myself, I wanted to go to the next level. I wanted to be even better, even richer, even whatever.
00:20:22
Speaker
What do you think this sensational drive and constant pursuit of the next thing? Where did I come from?
00:20:31
Speaker
Well, I think it's largely, I mean, there's a little bit of personality woven in there. I'm just a type A kind of guy, but I think there's a lot of societal programming. There's a lot of culture and pop culture. So, you know, we swim in this ocean. It's very hard to ignore it. It's in our TV. It's in our movies. It's, you know, how we, what we consider success.
00:20:52
Speaker
it's how we look at the world and you swim in that bathwater and you know when you're not aware of it you just play in it. Now for me personally and I believe many men have this, I had a very stoic father that never really
00:21:10
Speaker
He was kind of distant. He had a very hard time expressing himself. He would never tell me that he was proud of me or that he loved me or anything like that. And it wasn't that he didn't take care of me. He didn't abuse me in any sense.
00:21:24
Speaker
you know, I always sought his approval. I wanted him to be proud of me so badly. And this was like, well into my forties. I mean, you know, when he passed away in 2017, I thought I had cleared this a long time ago. And I had all these people come up to me at his funeral service. And they were all saying like, he always talked about you and he was always so proud of you. And of course he lived in Holland. I was in the States.
00:21:48
Speaker
you know, I completely broke down for weeks because I still had that wound in me that I, that's all I ever wanted him to do. I wanted him to tell me that he was proud of me, right? And, and I was just trying so hard to prove to, to him that I was worthy of that. And I just never really felt, and I didn't have a bad relationship with him, but I, I, I didn't have, I didn't have that. And I think many men have this wound, you know, it's a father wound that,
00:22:18
Speaker
and taught. I have kids myself now, and you know, I express myself very differently towards my kids than what my father did with me. But you know, here's a guy that was born in World War II.
00:22:32
Speaker
in a war raffage country, he wasn't taught any of these things. So I can see now that he just came from his own background of societal norms. And that wasn't something in Sweden is similar, very stoic, very kind of like matter of fact, very dry. There's not a lot of emotion that you display publicly. It's just not in the culture. So I think that's where a big part of the roots
00:23:00
Speaker
for me, my personal pain came from, you know, egged on by this societal norms and pop culture that we live in. As you got older, do you feel like that started to come through from him? Because when you were speaking of it? Not really. No, not really. No, he never really, you know, I have so many anecdotes and some of them are in my book, but
00:23:31
Speaker
You know, it's really interesting. I could see now in hindsight that he was a fan. He was following very closely what I did. And I could see that he was getting some joy out of it to see that I was making it for myself. And I came to a point somewhere in my late 30s where, you know, in my fucked up way of thinking, I mean, I had more money to need it. So in my mind, I had kind of eclipsed him.
00:24:02
Speaker
And at that point, in my mind, I told myself, I don't need his validation anymore. I've proven my point. I've made my point. I don't need him anymore to tell me anything. But I think that's untrue now, looking back. I think that was my egoic mind telling me, pacifying me. But I think in my heart, I needed it maybe even more because I was getting more and more extreme
00:24:30
Speaker
in pursuing more and more and this relentless drive that was really starting to destroy, you know, the most beautiful parts of my life, which, you know, I had a beautiful family and a beautiful wife I had, I had a lot. And I started like my, my own behavior became self destructive in its, in its just relentlessness. And I'm recognizing
00:24:56
Speaker
pattern there, but I think one of the most dangerous sign that you're off course is that when you think that your performance of what you do is greater than love.
00:25:12
Speaker
that it's more important than love and that you can it doesn't matter if you don't have or receive love from the closest people to you that is the most dangerous sign and that is when I had my roughest awakening and
00:25:27
Speaker
I have and I'm so lucky to have my family, to have my wife and to be with my daughter every single day and to be alive. But there's so many who don't and who have chosen a different path because once you start choosing,
00:25:45
Speaker
yourself, the performance and the material over who you love, eventually, it's going to come crashing down. And then you realize you don't have anything. And what do you have left to live for that, if you lose everything? I couldn't agree more.
Discovering Talents and Authenticity
00:26:01
Speaker
And, you know, I think there's actually a bigger fallacy that's behind it. And it's this notion that we have to do anything at all. We don't we have
00:26:14
Speaker
We don't have to do anything to be worthy. We just have to wake up in brief air, you know? I mean, and this notion that we have to go out in the world and we have to somehow conquer something or accomplish something or to be something is the biggest bullshit that we've been sold. All of us have been sold that because supposedly you're not somebody until you accomplish something. And that's complete nonsense.
00:26:42
Speaker
It's other nonsense. I mean, there's just no truth to that whatsoever. We are all worthy just for being here. Now, it is good to go in the world and go accomplish something and that you're passionate about and be in service to others. And there's many different things that the ways we can give and contribute, which I think are valuable, but none of them are necessary for us to be worthy. And I think so many of us
00:27:13
Speaker
believe or have these really deep beliefs that somehow we need to be something or be somewhere in life to be worthy, worthy of love, worthy of being here, worthy of friendship, worthy of whatever.
00:27:30
Speaker
And I think that's really where the biggest disconnect of all is. And that's in our society. That's just not men only. I mean, this is women too. You know, this notion that we have to be something. No, you don't have to be anything. You just have to get up in the morning. That's enough.
00:27:51
Speaker
When you bring up passion, when you bring up your why, go into that what you speak of right now too, of just knowing that you're enough, just for being who you are. Regardless, it doesn't matter what you do. But then, realizing that and getting to that state is a beautiful thing.
00:28:13
Speaker
I've gone to that state and I've realized that that who that I can be just amazing the way I am for not for just existing. Yeah, recreating that state is amazing if you can do it. But also how do you find your place back in this world after you found this? How do you not become a very sedimentary person who just sits around? Yeah,
00:28:45
Speaker
Well, it starts with, I have this core belief that all of us, there's no accidents in the universe, right? We are all here by some divine purpose, some infinite intelligence put us here in this vessel with these parents and these circumstances. And, you know, our wounds and our lessons are a path forward. That's how we learn. That's how we grow. That's how we evolve. But we all each have talents and superpowers.
00:29:12
Speaker
And I think one of the first things to discover is, you know, what are my talents and superpowers? And they're always going to be things that come easy, that come natural, that you enjoy, that you gravitate towards. And your passion and your why are always going to be around your talents and your superpowers because there are no mistakes in this universe. You and everybody else have something very unique to contribute to this world. And that uniqueness, that authenticity,
00:29:41
Speaker
and you started very early on when you did the introduction about marketing, when you come from pure authenticity, you don't need marketing anymore. Because you're got them magnets so strong that, you know, what you're bringing into the world is just going to magnetically attract what it needs to attract. There's no marketing is bullshit, man. It's just a bunch of fluff.
00:30:07
Speaker
it's hot air, right? So, but you get there by finding your talents and your superpowers, you know, what drives you, what feeds you, what makes you happy. And when you go down that path, whichever path that is, you're going to find that things don't really feel like work. It usually feels like, you know, passionate about it, it's kind of like easy to get motivated, it's easy to get up, it's easy to go do it.
00:30:33
Speaker
You still have to learn, you still have to grow, you still have to make yourself the best at it. Every talent needs to be sculpted and perfected, but that's where you're gonna find your passion and your why. And I think one of the big problems that people have is that they worry about, well, how am I gonna pay my bills? And the thing is, there's no mistakes in this world. If you pursue your talents and superpowers and your purpose and you're passionate, you're gonna make a living.
00:31:01
Speaker
I don't know if you're going to make it be rich, but you're going to make a living. You're going to sustain yourself. It's just inevitable. It's just, when you bring that into the world, it's always going to happen. And what you're going to find is you're going to find balance and harmony in other areas of your life too, because you're going to have energy left over to love. You're going to have energy left over to work out and take care of your body because you know, now you're intrinsically motivated. It doesn't come from some kind of outside, you know,
00:31:32
Speaker
impulse, right? It comes from like the inside and you're going to see this kind of, you know, evolve in all areas of your life. So I think everybody, that's my basic, my statement. I mean, everybody has talents and superpowers and I think you have to find those, you know, where are those? That's where you're going to find your why. That's where you're going to find your purpose. And once you kind of allow gravity to take you there, things are going to unfold for you because it's just organic. When you're in your power,
00:32:01
Speaker
And you're in your authenticity. I mean, things just happen for you. It's a universal law. There's just, there's no flaw in it. You don't have to do anything else. It's just going to happen for you. So I'm curious to hear what that looks like for you today. And I'll set the stage before that is when I get, I get very passionate about things, but my thing, and that is, I think that the greatest
00:32:31
Speaker
indicator is when you lose track of time because you get so oh yeah perfect one perfect one that's the thing that is my my greatest teacher in life is time with teaming which is honor in ancient Greek and and I associate because I have
00:32:48
Speaker
that my nemesis is not being on time because I always feel like I wanna push in so many things as possible in a little short of time as possible to, because I get this rush and it makes me feel more worthy to accomplish and do things. And it's hard for me to sometimes differentiate, is this the ego edging me on to do more? Is it true passion? Because I can lose track time in both ways and just take that a step further is,
00:33:15
Speaker
when I don't set boundaries, when I don't set, okay, at six o'clock, or four, five, whatever it is, right, my mind needs to go off work, and it's family only. Because if I keep my mind engaged, well, well, let me just check my ego one more time, my email one more time, I that data, my energy is scattered, and I'm not present. And
00:33:37
Speaker
my passion now bleeds into other areas of my life, and it becomes a hot mess. I'm curious to hear how you've navigated that yourself. And even, yeah, the original question, what does it look like for you today? So I come from a world of business, you know, high level business, real estate development, private equity, investments, things like that.
Spiritual Journey and Business Integration
00:34:01
Speaker
I still do some of that at Davos doing that. But I, you know, I've committed to writing my book and bringing out
00:34:07
Speaker
something called the Whisperer, which is a platform I'm creating to teach from, to coach both businesses and private clients, but also to share my message. So really what's happened over the last few years for me is that I really went down the spiritual path and I was very down. I had dark hours. I had similar to what I shared with you. I mean, I had very dark hours where I was thinking about suicide and having the thoughts, never acting on it,
00:34:37
Speaker
still, you know, a really, really dark place. And, you know, once I started kind of coming out of it and seeing the beauty around me and kind of refining my purpose, what really excites me is to teach and help other men because I, you know, it's been painful. It's been a rough ride for me. Beautiful, but it's been rough and painful. And I,
00:35:01
Speaker
And I think, excuse me to interrupt you, but to go into, cause I think that's a concept that a lot of people don't really understand. How can it be that you, when you have achieved so many things and then you've come to so many realizations, you have millions in the bank, you have all these things, the material, like you have the cars you have on the outside, the beautiful family.
00:35:29
Speaker
why would it come to a point where you feel like it's not worth living anymore? In a nutshell, I could not look at myself in the mirror. I could not tolerate what I had become. I had become a monster and I didn't recognize myself anymore. I didn't recognize, and this is from a really deep soul level where, you know, I'm at heart,
00:35:58
Speaker
I'm an incredibly compassionate and loving guy. I love people. And I was so ruthless in my ways, but it was hurting me, you know, because it, that's not me. That's not my nature. You know, um, being unfaithful to my wife killed me and I still did it, but I was like, it was, it was hollowing me out on the inside because that's not the man I am. That's not the man I want to be. I was, I had no respect for myself.
00:36:27
Speaker
It's like you're such a fucking despicable fake because on the outside, you're the successful guy and you got this beautiful custom suit on with your fancy tie and you know, you played a game and you talk really good game and you make a lot of money. But it's not true. It's not authentic because I know on the inside that you're just a fucking little scared boy, you know, and
00:36:53
Speaker
And you're not being an honorable man. You're not acting with integrity in life. It's just not real. And I had the same thing in my relationship because we had some dynamics in our marriage that we were pretending to the outside, even though on the inside our marriage had completely imploded and corroded and we were just roommates. But we kept pretending on the outside that we're this happy couple with three beautiful kids and we have everything.
00:37:21
Speaker
And towards the end, I couldn't do any of it anymore. I couldn't live the farce anymore. I literally was revolting against it, rebelling against it. I want to get out of it. I just wanted to, I literally wanted to get out of my body, out of my life. I was like, even though I had everything. And eventually the universe started
00:37:44
Speaker
like doing what the universe does, you know, I had some bad luck in business. I had a hurricane that wiped out a business and that was the one business I've ever, the one deal I've ever done with personal guarantee on it. So now I was going through a divorce. You know, I got a business that got wipes out by a natural disaster. And like, I went in the span of three months to almost being in bankruptcy. And so,
00:38:10
Speaker
all the power that I derived from having money and being successful, like it all fell away. I literally was naked. I had nothing else. I didn't have it anymore. I didn't have that facade anymore because the facade just crumbled. The universe just literally took it away. And that's when I really had to get real with myself. And that's where the hard, that's where the really hard stuff, you know, the really dark hours came because then you're just left to your own.
00:38:40
Speaker
you and your soul. And that's an interesting place to be. And I'm very grateful that I was there.
00:38:51
Speaker
but I don't think you have to go through the hardships I went through to get there. I think there's more elegant ways of getting there. And that's part of my mission that I see so much of the pain that I
Vulnerability and Balanced Energies
00:39:02
Speaker
had. I see it in so many other guys and I see so many marriages that are just not flourishing like they should. And that makes two people really unhappy. I mean, that's, that's, you know, love is the most beautiful thing in the world. And so that pains me to see that. And I have so many friends that are in unhappy marriages. And I'm like,
00:39:19
Speaker
Man, if I can help other men open their heart, be more vulnerable, step into their true power, their true authenticity, share some of these lessons and travails that I went through, and if that can help them a little bit, that's what I'm passionate about now. And to do that, like you told me, you have to be willing to go public, and that's actually what took me the longest.
00:39:44
Speaker
to be willing to share this so publicly. I really was reluctant to do it. And the initial reluctance was I didn't think anybody would care. Nobody's going to give a shit about my story. It's not that important.
00:39:59
Speaker
But I'm finding, and then I started finding, like when I started talking about it, it gives permission for other men to talk to. And I was like, man, it's probably powerful when I talk about it. And then I finally, beginning of this year, in February actually, I closed another business that freed up some time for me to really dedicate to this. And I made a decision like, you know, if I'm gonna do it, I need to do it well and just step into it. So that's when I were fully committed to
00:40:25
Speaker
Getting my book finished and really publicly sharing this and going on podcast and you know make this kind of the mission of my life and I'm loving it. It's still new to be this sharing it this publicly, but I think it's the only way to help other other people.
00:40:43
Speaker
I'm taking it in. I'm just feeling it right now. I am, well, you can say proud of you for doing that. I mean, you're showing an example by just what you're doing for me as well. And you're giving me permission. You're giving me inspiration to continue on this path as well. And just, we spoke about it, that
00:41:10
Speaker
What you went through I mean, you're not alone and there's so many especially men that do go through this and From an outside perspective, I mean you can understand we're okay
00:41:25
Speaker
All right, he lost everything. Why is there reason to live anymore? And I had what I shared with you before, a mentor who was thriving and climbed a corporate ladder very quick and opened up an office. And he didn't make it from a success perspective. And he chose to take his life. And he was asked to take a sabbatical. And this is just a tip of the iceberg.
00:41:54
Speaker
There's a significant problem, especially with COVID, when people are having things taken away, visionless or crashing left and right. And then this message is so needed. So how can people connect with you even today? I mean, even hearing from this, I'm like, where can I find you?
00:42:20
Speaker
Well, for now, I'm mostly on social media. So I'm on Instagram at The Zen Whisperer and on Facebook as well. My website is going to be up literally in about two weeks. My book is going to be published January 19th. That website will be up probably in about two or three weeks. So all of this stuff is coming out right now. I wanted to add because
00:42:42
Speaker
I think you're absolutely right. I think this, this is something that many men struggle with. I also see another dynamic and this is something that I worked through. This was my second marriage actually. I was married in my twenties as well. And so I went through a lot of therapy and I really delved into this whole essence of masculinity and femininity. And, you know, I see so many, so many, you know, there's a wounded masculine right now that, you know, we're just not in our heart. We're just totally living out of our mind, which is exactly,
00:43:13
Speaker
the example you gave, there's even more powerful example that there was this, I think it was about five, six years ago, there was this German billionaire, and he was the richest man in Germany, I believe. And then somehow he had a setback in his business fortunes, and he lost a few billion dollars, and now he only had like 11 billion euros or something, and he committed suicide. And
00:43:39
Speaker
You know, it's interesting because it's so like, how could you possibly do that, right? I mean, like you lose a few billion, yeah, that's a lot of money, but you have so much, you have more than anybody in this world and still this man in his head, right, had long time.
00:43:58
Speaker
so much so that it prompted him to commit a two minute suicide and take his life. And it's really sad because that is purely when we get lost in the intricacies of our egoic mind. And I think that's one of the big problems that we have as men because we're taught to kind of live in that masculine mind. But you know, we have a huge heart.
00:44:19
Speaker
And I think many of the things and the struggles we see in this world, the wars, the violence, the injustices, the inequalities, the pollution, like all these things come from the fact that we as men are not connected with our heart. And, you know, we're not we're not living from the heart, which is the feminine center actually.
00:44:38
Speaker
where intuition lives and passion and creativity and all those beautiful things. And we downplay those qualities and we just live in this intellect where we get sometimes desperate.
00:44:52
Speaker
The other thing that I'm seeing, which is part of this whole wound, is a very interesting dynamic because there's a lot of women I think that are maybe a little bit more evolved on the path. And there's a huge loneliness around these women because they are really seeking and longing for more evolved men that can basically come up to that same frequency. And there's a huge disconnect forming
00:45:19
Speaker
in that sense. And I think that's also something that needs to be addressed because it's causing this chism where I think people get really confused. I think men are confused like, you know, what am I supposed to be? What does a man look like?
00:45:35
Speaker
Like as a man, what am I allowed? What am I not allowed? Am I supposed to be like, you know, really sensitive or really this or really that? And so we become emasculated almost. And one of the things that I believe is that when you integrate the feminine within, you actually become more masculine. And we
00:45:53
Speaker
masculine is beautiful the sacred masculine is that's what we you know that's what we embody as men and it's a beautiful thing it's not a dirty thing it's not something to to downplay and like so much in popular you know culture right now it's like it's man-bashing and and you know it's confusing everybody it's confusing like you know what are you allowed to be and
00:46:16
Speaker
And it's confusing women too, because women are kind of hanging in their masculine and that's not where they want to be. They want to kind of get lost in their femininity. And so, you know, we have a lot of confusion, I think, around these things and a lot of healing that we can do.
00:46:29
Speaker
But I'm a big believer in being unapologetically masculine and finding that masculinity, but it doesn't show up like our pop culture version of John Wayne and a stoic guy. It's like, this is a guy that has evolved himself, that's in touch with his heart, that is loving and caring and compassionate, but he's still a fucking guy, right? Because that's what we are and, you know, we can be proud of it. I mean, there's nothing wrong with it.
00:46:56
Speaker
when you bring that up my old alpha selfless and just shrugged it off and whatever like I don't need that that's bullshit like yeah do you go on with your soft stuff what what is it but what is it that made you realize okay well because I because I ruined my life because I was not
00:47:18
Speaker
in touch with my heart I suppressed everything everything I felt everything that hurt me everything that I would just shove it away shove it away and then I would numb it I would numb it with alcohol with sex with porn with displacement with frills I would buy new toys I would like I would do everything in my power to not have to feel I didn't want to feel anything I could not express myself to my wife
00:47:45
Speaker
I had no capacity at all to really let her in deeply and share like my deepest fears and worries. I wasn't strong enough. That is nothing to do with weakness. I wasn't strong enough to do it. I couldn't do it, but it ruined my life. It ruined everything around me. It ruined everything that was important to me. All the relationships that I really cared for, soured, right? Because I became like a noxious guy to deal with.
00:48:14
Speaker
very full of himself, you know, always right. Always like, you know, everybody else was stupid. Everybody else didn't understand it. And that version of alpha male is toxic. It's not helpful. And like, I don't know if you can tell or not, but you know, I'm still an alpha male. I'm 100% alpha man. There's nothing less alpha about me than than I ever was. I'm probably more alpha than I ever was.
00:48:44
Speaker
But I don't let my mind dictate everything anymore. I really, really listen to my heart. I really, I try to come from a place for love and compassion. I feel a lot more. And when I feel something, I give it credence. I'm like, why am I feeling this?
00:49:01
Speaker
Why? Why? Because, you know, your heart tells you a lot, tells you whether you're on the right path, whether something is right for you. You know, even when you're in a place, you go into a room where you go, even when someone invites you for a vacation or this or that, you know, you can feel whether it's right for you. But you have to be in your heart, you know, and we're so closed off. And we're just, we're living this mental life.
00:49:27
Speaker
And I think it's one of the big disconnects that we have in this society that we have today.
Maintaining Emotional Connections
00:49:35
Speaker
For me, an example is I still to this day have a hard time connecting to my heart and intuition and creativity at times because
00:49:51
Speaker
The thrill of accomplishing things is incredible and of building things. I mean, as men, we love to build things. And that is just, it's a love of mine or it's a desire. It drives me every single day. But it also, the more I do that, the more I get fatigued. And then one of the things that starts shutting off the quickest is my emotions because then they become a hindrance to what I need to get done.
00:50:17
Speaker
and one of the feedback that I get that I know a lot of men get is from your spouse you are a completely different person during the week and then during the weekend you're open and loving like what's going on like I don't get it like I don't like it
00:50:34
Speaker
please get back to being who you are because I don't like who you are when you're in your professional mode whatever you want to call it practices that I do now daily is what we did now too is I do
00:50:51
Speaker
A hourly breathing technique of saying I love you and I forgive you and just stopping I meditate And and one with Joe dispense that where he goes through what you feel what it feels like to feel gratitude or feel Feel your feelings and I need to practice that
00:51:08
Speaker
And that has helped me, but it's still difficult many days. Other meditations and going into feeling, feeling love, which can be, sounds strange maybe to some, but that can be difficult. And, but the biggest thing has been to join a community, to hear and see other alpha males share, to be vulnerable, because that has given me
00:51:33
Speaker
you can say the biggest okay sign like okay it's okay it's okay yeah and I think I think it's about finding the right groups because when the alpha mill get together is just pounding beers and watching football not talking about anything meaningful there's a place of time for that too but you know that's not going to really move the needle that much because that's everybody just you know hiding in
00:51:58
Speaker
in blindness, right? And that's, that's what we see a lot when we see, you know, traditional male bonding, it's like, we don't talk about anything. You know, we just kind of do some stuff together. And you know, there's, like I said, there's a time and place for that too. So but if you find the right group, that's willing to open up, you know, then then it's very, very powerful. Because, you know, when we let go of this notion that we're in competition with everybody,
00:52:26
Speaker
and we can let go of and truly cultivate friendships, then that's really, really deep for men. And we can get an enormous amount of power out of that. And some things we can't do with our spouse or with our loved one. And she can't do everything with us either. She needs her girlfriends too. She needs to have that part. Now, I do think that in relationships,
00:52:54
Speaker
You know, one of the big things that I didn't fully appreciate is that, A, I mean, women are like built to love. They are love machines. They are literally like insatiable love machines, but they have to trust and they have to feel connected with you. When they don't feel connected, they shut down. It's literally like the engine shuts down. And you know, we,
00:53:23
Speaker
We are, our typical response as a man is we turn our back and we say, fuck you. You know, you're cold. You're being a bitch. Like, I don't understand why you're doing this. Like, go away. I don't want anything to do with it because I can't deal with it. Right. And it's literally the worst reaction we can have because what she's signaling is she doesn't feel you. She doesn't feel connected. She doesn't trust you for that reason. And that's why she can't open up.
00:53:53
Speaker
And it's the one lesson that I learned that I screwed up my whole fucking life. Because my whole life, if I was in a situation where, you know, I felt that I would always turn my back and say, I don't have time for this. I'll go do some more work. I'll go whatever, go work out or like, I don't want to deal with this. Right. And it's the one thing that we can really work on because when we feel, when we allow ourselves to feel,
00:54:20
Speaker
Right. And I wasn't in my heart. I was just in my head. In my head, she made no sense. But if I would have just looked in her eyes and I would have given her like a few minutes and I would feel, I would say, Hey, she doesn't feel me. She wants to, you know, and that's what your wife is probably saying during the week. She can't feel you. And because she can't feel you, she can't trust. And when she can't trust, she can't love. And that's against her nature. Women want to feel connected.
00:54:46
Speaker
They want to feel like they have, you have to let them in. And we're, we're not that good at it as men, especially when we're in work mode, right? When we're just like in hustle mode, where there's a little pants around our heart and like, um, but it's, um, it's, it's something to work on for sure. For everybody. What are practical things and actual things that you would recommend to connect back to your heart?
Remote Work and Presence Tips
00:55:16
Speaker
Well, I think the first thing, if you work outside the home and you come back to your house, your commute back should be your detox from work. And I always think that, you know, I have certain music, ceremony music that I play that calms me down. But I think, you know, if you have a half hour commute or whatever it is, you gotta like start the wind down right there, right? The moment you step in your car on your bike, you will start walking home and you go on a train or whatever it is.
00:55:46
Speaker
like start, start disconnecting, you know, probably put your phone away. Because, you know, if you're on your phone, you're still doing emails, you're still doing work. And that's the energy that you bring home. So, you know, you have to really disconnect from that and just start calming. And, you know, I think when you when you can do that, when you're around your loved one,
00:56:12
Speaker
I always tell myself, feel, feel, feel, feel, like get out of your fucking head. Get out of your head because she doesn't live in your head. Women have no appreciation at all for scorecards. They don't have any appreciation for the 99 things you did well. They don't care. They care what you're doing right now here in this moment, right?
00:56:38
Speaker
And, um, and so, you know, you, I think you just teach yourself to tune in and I've breath work is always very good, but it's about being present. That's really what it's about. Right. And, and, and we should cultivate that throughout in every relationship and every interaction that we have as someone else. When we go out with friends, you know, don't have your mindful with a hundred thousand things. I mean, really focus on those friends.
00:57:02
Speaker
zone in on that, right? And, you know, when you go work out, then really work out. Don't be doing your groceries or your list and, you know, work on, I still got to do that. No, just really, really work out. So try to always be really in the moment.
00:57:18
Speaker
with COVID and a lot of people working from home and people who are just generally working from home, that is changing environments can make it easier. I know for me and what you're sharing right now is something that I constantly go back and forth with of
00:57:39
Speaker
of struggling with, of not setting boundaries. Like one thing I wanted to get something released or finished regarding the business within a certain time period. And I did not allow myself to shut off. Like I would think about it after I work up until that time. And then I didn't prepare for the next day because I was so into what I was doing. And then during the workout, I was thinking about and I was not completely present during the workout.
00:58:06
Speaker
And by the time I came in home, I worked out in my garage and then I came home. I saw work in one of the rooms in the house and I came, I come back in and I checked my email to make sure that there's nothing that has come in that I need to address right there. And then, or think about, so I can analyze it during the evening. And then I'm not really present. And then it's just day after day after day. And then when my wife and daughter are gone
00:58:33
Speaker
And there's a different energy. I am not free to do whatever I want. And now all of a sudden, the time that I have to have lunch, it's now in front of my computer. My dinner is now in front of my computer. I don't shut off. I don't process things. I don't feel things. And all of a sudden, I have a productivity hangover for the next two days. And my wife wants nothing to do with me because I just got so freaking lost and I feel horrible.
00:59:01
Speaker
And a big thing there is boundaries. But what would you say, even for so many people who are working from home, like how would you go about just on a day-to-day basis? Like how would you go about that? I work from home too, but you know, I'm right now, other than when my kids are here, I'm by myself. So I don't have to set boundaries as much as you would like in your situation.
00:59:27
Speaker
But I'm pretty disciplined. I'm a really big believer in routines. And one of the habits, you know, you are the product. The way you do anything is the way you do everything. And so I'm a big believer that you make your bed in the morning, you know, you do a certain routine. And when you repeat that, it becomes basically ingrained, but it instills this discipline as well. And so when you want to set boundaries,
00:59:56
Speaker
get yourself organized, you know, get yourself organized, you know, set your tasks for the day and just do it and knock them out. I think so many people kind of meander and they're not disciplined. They are not focused. And then they, you know, they find out like it's 3pm and they have done probably an hour of work and you know, and then they're, they're like hustling for the next three hours because by six o'clock they need to be done. And then of course it's not done. It's not good enough. It's not,
01:00:25
Speaker
So I think a lot of people, and this is the challenge, I think working from home, is you have to amp up to self-discipline because it's so easy to get distracted. It's so easy to walk out and you got to do some laundry. And then, you know, there's an Amazon guy doing a delivery. And, you know, before you know it, you're just kind of numbing a lot of time away. So I think discipline is a really big one. And then the other thing with boundaries, I mean, this thing is
01:01:09
Speaker
The room, just so I can not get distracted by my phone. Oh. Can you hear me? I can't hear you.
01:01:29
Speaker
So I lost you So you were saying at the book you're or you're about to pull something out well my phone I pulled up my iPhone and so I think one of it's an electronic leash and We're so attached to that damn iPhone that we're never in the present moment We're just lost looking at this iPhone. And so I think working from home is
01:01:52
Speaker
you know, it's very healthy to put that phone away sometimes, you know, especially if you're spending time with family and with your kids, with your wife, with your girlfriend, whatever it is, um, put the whole phone away because every time that ping goes, every time you have a little message that comes in, your attention is away. And, and you know, you're, you're interrupting like your, your focus. And I'm a big believer that, you know, being,
01:02:19
Speaker
being with someone, being with your loved one for three hours, but it's scatterbrained and half the time you're on your phone and you're distracted, it's better to just put your phone away for an hour and have really good quality time for an hour, like really be there. And that hour will be so much more meaningful than spending three hours, but you're all over the place.
01:02:42
Speaker
So I think putting your phone away is, is one of the, probably the biggest things you can, you can do nowadays. Cause we're just being pulled from so many different directions.
Authenticity in Professional Settings
01:02:50
Speaker
And we have so many different, we have WhatsApp and text and Facebook has messenger and email and you have God knows what we have like six, seven, eight different ways that people are getting to us. And then the feed on, you know, social media, which is designed to suck you in. So of course I want you to look at my posts, but, um,
01:03:12
Speaker
You know, it's the armpit of everything, right? Social media. I'll show you one thing right now. Yeah, your clouds. That's my screen. So usually you see a bunch of apps on the screen. It's purposefully just a very neutral background. And there are three areas where I can go into the apps, or actually one area.
01:03:37
Speaker
The two other ones is Spotify and Audible, because those are some of the most informational apps that I can go to. But I have it on airplane mode. And part of that where you go into is being very intentional. For me, that has been huge and significant. And I have to thank my wife for that. It's setting these boundaries of setting.
01:03:59
Speaker
at this time, my phone goes on airplane mode, I will not be reachable. And if something is pressing enough, I don't have anything that probably is. And if that is, then I make the stoic choice, I will deal with it the next day. And then your mind and a lot of fear comes up with that. And even yesterday, but then you learn to adapt your way of being during the hours that you were on, you're on, right? And having that discipline to being on during that time. And
01:04:28
Speaker
And that's simple. One of the things that's so underestimated is doing the hardest thing or some of the most difficult things first is your decision fatigue is a real thing. The most bright you are is going to be in the morning.
01:04:45
Speaker
have the hardest decisions planned for them, and then you go just take on whatever routine things later on. And the more you start doing this, this becomes second nature, the less you have to think about it. And then we already have, like you said, the routines down, now you can just, you have your auto mode, and you're doing all these things, while for some people, it would take a lot of brain power. And that is a second thing that follows discipline and boundaries as habits.
01:05:14
Speaker
Now that you develop habits, all of a sudden, you're tuning yourself to becoming highly connected to also start feeling because some of these things that you constantly need to make these small decisions of, Oh, well, what should I cook right now? Oh, well, let me hold off. Oh, well, maybe I eat at that time. Then you start your mind starts bouncing. But if you already have that plan, if you already have that set, you don't need to think about it. Right.
01:05:39
Speaker
But that that goes into also, you saw your reality with the whisper. That is, that is majority of what you focus on. But you're still engaged in other ventures, are you? Yeah, I still I still own a few businesses and or involved in a few businesses. And I sit on a advisory board of a real estate fund here in Miami. Hmm.
01:06:04
Speaker
So doing that, and for people who are just listening and not watching the video, Robert is wearing mala beads and a more of a relaxed, yeah, more of a relaxed, you can say outfit. And would that, is that just who you are through and through? I know that's something we had a prior conversation that we spoke about. Yeah, I'll show up like this. I mean, I don't wear ties anymore, ever. I don't wear suits anymore, ever.
01:06:33
Speaker
Maybe do a funeral, but I really don't wear that anymore. But it's really not because I'm anti-suit. It's just I wear what I'm comfortable with. My uniform, generally, if I go to business meetings, is my jeans and a white shirt. And that's what I feel comfortable in. And, you know, maybe I wear a jacket.
01:06:58
Speaker
over it but that blue blazer but that's about it. Other than that I wear you know these types of shirts and t-shirts and I like mala beads because they remind me of my Buddha nature and I enjoy wearing them. I had a long time I didn't do those things because I was afraid for a long time like how are people going to perceive that and
01:07:25
Speaker
But I've given that up a few years ago. And I'm like, you know what? I'm just going to show up the way I want to. And I have tattoos and other things. And if people have a judgment about it, then so be it. But what I've noticed, everything centers around authenticity. And when I show up and I speak, provided it's a subject I know something about, but otherwise I wouldn't speak,
01:07:55
Speaker
nobody's not gonna take me serious. I mean, I can wear speedo and they're gonna take me serious. Cause I know what I'm talking about. So when I'm on subjects that I know about, so, you know, I don't feel like I have to conform and wear a certain uniform that is more symbolic of whatever that is. I went to this two years ago, I went to Columbia Business School and there's a real estate circle every,
01:08:22
Speaker
December. And I remember going there in December, I happened to be in New York. And everybody was wearing the same gray suit, the same tie, the same I mean, it was literally like clones. And I was kind of laughing to myself, because I used to be one of those clones. And it's not that I'm proud of myself that I'm wearing something else. It's just an expression of who I am. I mean, this is what I feel like. And I still have meaningful things to contribute. I, you know, I'm still just as smart
01:08:52
Speaker
but this is how I like to express myself and this is what I'm comfortable in and this is how I feel. And I'm noticing that if you show up in authenticity, nobody ever questions it. I've never had anybody at any business meeting question what I'm wearing ever. It was all in my head really more than anything else. So,
01:09:16
Speaker
But I think it does have something to do with being authentic and being very genuine in the way you come across. And I'm okay with me. I don't have anything to prove. I'm not going out there. I always had something to prove, the old Robert. I don't have anything to prove anymore. I don't need someone else's validation anymore.
01:09:44
Speaker
I know what I am. I know what I'm good at. I know I'm a good person. And you know, every day I get a little better. That's all there is to it, you know?
Self-Discovery and Genuine Expression
01:09:56
Speaker
There is a concept that I was struggling with and that was going into when you start feeling more and when you start getting more connected and have these realizations of why am I trapped in this rat race? And I just wanted to throw it all in the trash. Just denounce it. I want nothing to do with this. I'm done with corporate. I'm done with money. I'm done with the material.
01:10:25
Speaker
it I wanted a radical change and for I realized a lot of it had to do with Just allowing myself to have fun to laugh to feel my feelings again and to completely just to disconnect and I think that's a phenomenon that's especially Very prominent here in the United States people never shut off people constantly go. It's a it's a
01:10:52
Speaker
something to be proud of to never take vacation days. And it ruined me, especially having my daughter and not taking any time. I completely I did not know who I was and I had the hardest time and that was so destructive. Now in hindsight, that I didn't allow myself that time, that stillness, that peace.
01:11:16
Speaker
But also, when I've gone into that, I've gone so far that I, all of a sudden, not all of a sudden, gradually, responsibilities start going out the door, structure starts going out the door. I just want to feel, I just want to connect. Like Ram Dass at one point, he was upset with his body and angry that, why do I have to be in this body? So he stopped taking care of his body. I never got to that degree. But that speaks to
01:11:40
Speaker
A place where I feel especially more, you can say, the modern man sometimes gets stuck. You're just this loving, connecting, soft man who walks around beaming, but really when put in a pinch, gets frightened and has no freaking clue what to do.
01:12:01
Speaker
And obviously you're not there. And I know that as part of what I'm coming back to and where you see me wearing a suit and a white shirt, because that what is what I feel comfortable with. I like that. I like the simplicity. I like the minimalism. It's been significant and key in my life. But I know I can be a bridge because I like to perform at a high level, but it's just how do I do it consciously and from the heart and with authenticity. And I know there's a thought or two probably in your head about this topic, so please share.
01:12:33
Speaker
Well, I think generally we're incredibly hung up on what other people think. Can you hear me still? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I think that's one of the first kind of journeys on the spiritual path is to let go of what I call the rules, which is the bullshit rules. All this stuff,
01:12:57
Speaker
that we think we're supposed to do or supposed to be, or like, who says you're supposed to wear a suit or a tie or, I mean, who may, if someone made that up, that isn't like anywhere in the constitution. There's not like a law that you weren't born that way, you were born naked. I mean, so, you know, these are all just rules that someone came up with. And, you know, it's very liberating when we kind of let go of that.
01:13:23
Speaker
and say, okay, well, how do I want to express myself? And I don't think it's soft in any way or weak or, you know, just because I'm wearing mala beads. I mean, I don't think I look weak. I mean, that I'm less masculine or that I'm less business-like, because I think the essence is still the same. And part of the spiritual path is really,
01:13:50
Speaker
peeling back these layers, you know, these one layer at a time, right, and really get to our core to ourself. And you know, what's really important to us and how do we want to show up and how can we fully express ourselves in every dimension possible. And work is one dimension and love is another dimension and friendships and art and, you know, sports, you know, there's so many different dimensions in life. And
01:14:15
Speaker
You know, I think the challenge, but also the beauty is just peeling back these layers. And the more you can get closer to yourself, the more comfortable you're going to feel, the more light you're going to feel, the more you're going to shine light out because you've got nothing to prove anymore. You know, you're not trying to be something that you thought you ought to be, which is what most of us occupy our whole lives with. Hmm.
Staying Connected and Future Projects
01:14:48
Speaker
Being in that state today, I'm curious too, what are practices that make you feel the most connected today? And that really, all right. Well, I do several things. I mean, I'm a big believer that we have a fundamental disconnect with Earth. And I think we're a part of nature.
01:15:10
Speaker
And so I try to earth quite a bit. I sleep on the earthing sheets as well. Um, I have an earthing pad underneath my computer. Uh, I think that's one of the, um, one of the big things that we lack. Um, you know, we're not grounded and we're, um, um, you know, there's a huge part of that being in nature to me, the same thing. And being in nature is even just getting vitamin D just going outside and getting a little bit of sunshine. I think so many of us are starved from, from, from those kinds of basics.
01:15:39
Speaker
I think other practices that I have for me working out is, is a big thing. It's a big outlet for me, but it's also, um, it's also, it makes me feel my body. And so, you know, coming into your body means you're coming out of your head because basically that's what all of this is about is to get out of your head, get into your body, into your heart. And then, you know, with that, you're settling into your soul and your mind is a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful,
01:16:07
Speaker
tool, but your mind should be the servant, where we have put the world upside down, where we have made the mind the master. The mind is not a good master. It's not very good at all. The heart is a great master.
01:16:22
Speaker
It's got a great compass. It knows where you need to go. You know, it knows your soul. The mind, you know, not so much. So, you know, all these exercises, meditation is another way of calming the mind. I don't nearly meditate as much as you would maybe expect, but I contemplate a lot, which is kind of my preferred way. Now, contemplation is really where you try to balance between the two hemispheres of the brain.
01:16:53
Speaker
And so it's a form of meditation, but it's more like very, and then the, the other side would be deep concentration. And so deep concentration is basically your analytical side. It's your mind. Your meditation is basically your no mind. And then the contemplation is kind of the bridge between. And so I like to contemplate quite a bit because it calms me down and it still allows me to have some thinking patterns that I, that I don't necessarily think are, are, um,
01:17:22
Speaker
I mean, that can be very constructive, which if you've done Joe Dispenza, you know, thinking and his form of meditation is a very, it's a very different and a no mind. Because you're very deliberate, you're very intentional in what you meditate on. And that's more of what I call contemplation.
01:17:44
Speaker
So all this, I am thrilled to learn more. And for anyone who wants to learn more, you were speaking of your book. Do you mind sharing where people can find that and when it will be released? Yeah, the book is called Never Enoughitis. And I coined that title because, you know, it was just never fucking enough. And so that was the feeling I had when I was just always chasing and I'm not the only one because I see this all around me. So
01:18:14
Speaker
I believe that that's kind of disease of mankind. And I was a prime example of that disease. And that's what the book is about. So it's my story of coming out of business school and meeting my wife and a fairy tale. And then, you know, real life happens. And then the third part of the book is Phoenix Rising, where basically everything falls apart. But I find my way out through largely spirituality and just self-development and personal mastery. The book is going to be available on January 19th on Amazon.
01:18:43
Speaker
It will eventually be available at Barnes and Noble and some of these other bookstores as well, is what I understand. But it will initially be just on a paperback and an e-book version on Amazon. And I think in about two or three weeks, the website will be up, neverenoughitis.com, and people can already find it on Amazon, pre-register for the sales. Please do. Leave me reviews, that would be helpful too if you thought it was a good read.
01:19:13
Speaker
And my website, thewhisperer.com is going to be up in about two weeks. That will have more about the programs I offer. I'm also putting a digital course together called the Zen Mastery Method, which is about mind, heart, body, and soul, which is the path to personal mastery. And I teach in all these modules. That course will probably come out, you know, towards March.
01:19:38
Speaker
And then finally, I'm working on a documentary, which will probably come out around February about never enough fighters. So it's a subject of my book, but in a documentary format, like a 15 minute trailer documentary. So those are kind of the projects that I'm bringing out. But if someone wanted to follow me today, I post daily on Instagram at the Zen Whisperer.
01:20:01
Speaker
and similar on Facebook, it's slash the Zen Whisper. And you can follow me there. I post daily. I put a video a week up with some teaching as well. And I'll start even putting more videos up as time goes by.
01:20:16
Speaker
Amazing. And by the time this podcast release, uh, release is the two websites will probably be up. Oh, perfect. Yeah. And the book might even be released. So it'll be, be great timing. Um, and I'll let the listeners know more too about the details of where to find that and the updates at that point too. Um, but Robert, it's been phenomenal. Incredible to have you on. Thank you. Well, thank you. I appreciate it. Appreciate you giving me the air time. I really appreciate it. Enjoyed it.
01:20:46
Speaker
Thanks.
01:20:49
Speaker
Robert, if you want to find this book, Never Enough Idas, check it out on Amazon. Check it out in any bookstore, especially in the United States, Canada too. You can even check it out in other countries as well, especially on Amazon. You can find Robert and his information, social and so forth, in show notes. I feel like this was a compelling message. If you got inspired, if you take something away from this show, I'd ask you.
01:21:16
Speaker
favor in return please subscribe hit like even a five-star I don't like notifications myself so subscribe like I mean it's up to you five stars sweat off your back five seconds as long as it takes thank you for doing such this helps us spread the message
01:21:34
Speaker
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01:21:58
Speaker
Check that out, Safina.io, Safinastrength.com, either one works. And for 15% off, Safina, all caps, 15, and you're golden. Sending you much love.