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#8 Chris Cochran & Ron Eddings - Cybersecurity Professionals & Podcasters
10 Plays3 years ago
Chris and Ron host the podcast “Hacker Valley Studio”, where they go into cyber security self-improvement and diversity. Chris grew up in a family that did not have much. From wrestling, to dance, to being a marine, he fell intro threat intelligence that then took him to now being a security leader. Ron grew up with sports, and stumbled into hacking, which he is now a master of and uses it for the light side as a security architect. They are both deep thinkers and ask the big questions in life.
Please give the podcast ★★★★★ if you enjoyed it.
Avalon Harmonia
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Transcript
Introduction to Guests: Chris Cochran and Ron Eddings
00:00:06
Speaker
Welcome to episode number nine. I am your host, Sebastian Engstrom. And today, Chris Cochran and Ron Eddings from Hacker Valley Studio podcast joins us. And they are two fascinating individuals. They are deep in the cybersecurity trenches and also self-development. And that's really what they get into in their cybersecurity-focused podcast. A very unique concept that I have not yet come across.
00:00:33
Speaker
So this will be one fascinating episode.
Backgrounds of Chris and Ron in Cybersecurity
00:00:36
Speaker
Chris is a former Marine. He was a wrestler for majority of his childhood, a dancer. Then he went into threat intelligence and now he's a cybersecurity leader. Ron is just cybersecurity through and through. He is trained as a hacker.
00:00:53
Speaker
but he does the not so good things and uses them for good so he knows what the hackers do and reverses it so he's a brilliant cyber security architect that uses what one might say as the destructive patterns and the criminal activity and uses it for good because he knows and he is in the minds of the hackers
00:01:15
Speaker
we get into some fascinating topics everything from mindset to growth to being a mental athlete what is that like as a cyber security practitioner super stardom and um yeah what do they have going on with the hacker valley studio podcast
00:01:32
Speaker
enjoy this was fabulous one and if you haven't done so yet be so kind give five stars with you click subscribe takes five seconds good deed of the day and freaking helps us man this is here to help other people so by doing so even if you want to drop me a personal look I'd love some feedback how are we doing enjoy as high performers
00:02:03
Speaker
We love to get after it.
Breathing Exercise for Clarity and Focus
00:02:06
Speaker
Just take it to the hold. But by doing such, we run ourselves to the ground. This is to come back to clarity, to get focused on what really matters in life. If you want to skip this three minutes and 30 seconds ahead, I'm going to do a breathing exercise by putting one hand on your heart. Use stomach, close your eyes. Please don't do this if you're in a car.
00:02:31
Speaker
And you're going to breathe in. I'm going to say, I love you and your name quietly. And then I forgive you and your name quietly. I'm going to guide you through this in one person, love and light. I'm going to do so in three, two, one. I love you and your name. Breathe in. Out. In.
00:03:04
Speaker
Now I forgive you and your name quietly in.
00:03:35
Speaker
in up in up in up in
00:04:05
Speaker
And...
00:04:16
Speaker
And now you can imagine one person in front of you and when it comes to mind and this person is going to be in ecstatic joy. They're going to be jumping up and down because they love life. They love themselves. They love everyone else and everyone around them because they're having the most amazing day of their life.
00:04:42
Speaker
Everything they've ever wanted, they've dreamed of is coming their way. They're giving back. They're helping other people. They're there for other people. They've opened their hearts to receive and to fully give. They've forgiven themselves. They've forgiven everyone and everyone else around them. And they're one at this moment. Right here. Right now.
00:05:11
Speaker
feel this immense joy bubbling up inside of them because they know they are one with an ear right here
00:05:27
Speaker
I got the masterminds of security, of freaking podcasting, over a hundred episodes, role models of mine and just freaking cool, awesome people who are changemakers in this world.
Mental Athletics in Cybersecurity
00:05:43
Speaker
a industry who truly needs, in my opinion, a beating heart and an open soul and a mind to embracing more than just how do you figure out and get down to the nitty gritty results and exfoliate, exterminate and freaking crush the hackers and the threats and keep anything and everyone secure, but you're tapping into
00:06:09
Speaker
the human potential behind it all, what you call, Chris, the mental athletes. You are making a freaking change in this world and to an industry that are seen in my eyes as the modern firefighters, the true criminal
00:06:26
Speaker
activists that are fighting the real, you can say masterminds that are out there because that is really were the unseen, but also some of the most major impactful threats live out there today. So thank you for being on this podcast today, Chris and Ron. Thanks for having us. This is a pleasure. Yeah.
00:06:48
Speaker
And I am very grateful how you showed up in this exercise here that we did connecting deep to yourselves of saying, I love you and I forgive you and sending another person light. And that is something I do with every guest to respond to your question, Chris. And I'm freaking afraid before I started doing, I'm like, oh, like, how am I going to be seen? Like, this is not a macho thing to do, but that is what this podcast is all about.
00:07:18
Speaker
is shedding those walls, is letting someone else into your heart, is to open up your soul. And by doing so, you can feel okay, which is laughing. They're like, all right, I can feel my feelings again. I can truly express who I am. I don't need be hiding behind this freaking fancy suit or this title, what I do, I can actually, I can trust again.
00:07:46
Speaker
I can actually look someone else in the eyes and feel that connection
The Meeting of Minds: Chris and Ron
00:07:50
Speaker
again. I don't need to just back to the mission, back to chasing, back to results. And that I think is a great lead into maybe you can take us down the path because this is the mission that you are on. That is why I'm having such a connection with the two of you.
00:08:08
Speaker
ron and chris maybe how can you explain like how did you end up getting on that path and what is your mission right now chris if you'd like to start yeah you know it it's really serendipitous and i don't know if people out there believe in serendipity but ron and i met several years ago and we were fast friends uh we had you know really good
00:08:31
Speaker
Memories already built from that time, but really fast forward a couple years even beyond that when I flew out to California to start my job at Netflix I was staying at Ron's house and I was already walking into this place that is focused on performance focused on you know breaking the the walls of the norm and
00:08:51
Speaker
And I already felt like that, but I really felt like it was a place where I could be myself and experiment and push the boundaries of what it means to be a man, what it means to be a black man in America, and really just kind of just like take those labels and throw them away like you were talking about. And so for instance, like imagine being in a house with four minorities.
00:09:13
Speaker
And on Sundays, we'd do breathwork led by Ron. We'd bring in a yoga instructor on Wednesdays and we'd do yoga together. I mean, there was just so many things that we would push ourselves in technology. We'd push ourselves in breathing. We'd push ourselves mentally and physically. And really just, I would not trade that time. We did three months together. I wouldn't trade that time for anything in the world. I really felt like I went from Chris 2.0 to 3.0.
00:09:42
Speaker
I'd love to hear what Ron thinks about it as well.
00:09:45
Speaker
I was actually just reflecting on our relationship this morning. The fact that Chris is so open with his goals and his feelings, his emotions, is very helpful for me as a collaborator, as a friend, as a best friend. Because Chris will come to me with anything and say, Ron, I think we could do this. I think I see this. I see this in you. I see this in myself. I think we can do it.
00:10:12
Speaker
To have that in a friend, to have that in a collaborator, that goes a long way. So I think for Chris to come into my life, I believe in myself, I believe in Chris, for Chris to manifest things and tell me he believes it. And then for me to tell Chris, I think we could do this.
00:10:30
Speaker
we can double down on whatever our dreams are and accomplish them. We're going to work together to do it. We're going to do it together. We're going to build this brand. We're going to build this podcast. We're going to make it great. We have that back and forth with one another and we trust each other. So I think trust has always been a huge thing for Chris and I.
00:10:50
Speaker
I'm ready to hit the field right now. You got me juiced up. That's making happen. Spiritual warriors. Wow. So now you're even, is it official? Like what you're doing? I know you released Hacker, so blue season, red season. Maybe you want to go into some high levels.
00:11:16
Speaker
like how how did it maybe maybe short story on your past and i think it's um interesting maybe starting with you chris again with especially coming from how you at one point share with me that you kind of stumbled into threat intelligence
00:11:31
Speaker
And especially being a Marine and now getting into a similar way that I've gone into things, I came into being very masculine, very macho. And as I realized that I needed to elevate my performance even higher, I needed to tap into what's behind me, the feminine, so that the peacock side to really start accessing, okay, well, I can't just keep pushing and crushing and running through walls.
00:12:01
Speaker
what was that journey like? And maybe even take us back to like early days, like childhood days, like what shaped you?
Balancing Life Forces: Mindfulness and Yoga
00:12:07
Speaker
Yeah, we I mean, we're all an amalgamation of our experiences. And it's so interesting that you bring up this dichotomy of life, that you have these strong and soft forces and soft doesn't mean weak, but soft as in delicate or elegant. So I mean,
00:12:24
Speaker
All the way growing up, up until I'd say probably about a few years ago, everything was very, very hard. I was in the Marine Corps. I was a dancer. I wrestled for pretty much my entire life. So I've always been in the combat sports and things like that.
00:12:42
Speaker
But I felt like there was, I was out of balance. And so really experimenting with the other side of life, the breathing, the yoga, the meditation, the mindfulness, all that stuff really just took me to the next level. And so I had to have the both sides in order to feel like who I am. So like looking at
00:13:02
Speaker
My time, you know doing threat intelligence within when I was in the Marine Corps all the way through building something of my own which is Hacker Valley studio and Ron and I we've built this thing to to meant to mirror that to mirror us as as as individuals because there is two sides to it and so we bring on all sorts of folks from different walks of life and we take
00:13:26
Speaker
take little bits and pieces from them. And we ended up coming with this 20 principles that we live by. And there's such a blend of both the hard and soft aspects of life. So one question or threat intelligence for people who do not know what is threat intelligence in the grand scheme? It sounds cool.
00:13:45
Speaker
Yeah, so threat intelligence simply is the collection, analysis, and dissemination of information from a threat environment. So more specifically on the cyber side, cybersecurity. So I'm looking at all of the threats, the hackers, the activists, the nation state actors, all of the folks that do bad things on the internet. And I use that information to protect the people that I love.
00:14:13
Speaker
of it. That is how you wrap that up to protect the people that I love. I mean, that's that's why I got into the cybersecurity industry, too. And there are some people
00:14:29
Speaker
I think that failed to see that. I even talked to a friend of mine yesterday, like IT security, that's freaking boring to some people like this. They think about it like computers and a bunch of squares and freaking numbers and so forth.
00:14:44
Speaker
But it's really that how do you, at the end of the day, protect the people that you love too? It's really stepping into being modern heroes and heroines. A big part of the Saphina code is Greek mythology.
00:15:02
Speaker
And that makes me connect to that too. It's really like, how, how do you, and when we're working for, for CrowdStrike at one point, they had these threat actors and very much like symbolic. You can say, um, these are bad guys though, but how do you, how do you create these, these, um, these heroes that you can relate to or hero wins? Uh, and it really felt like I, I was part of fighting a good fight when I was in cybersecurity. Yeah. So, um, thank you for sharing that and Ron on you for you.
00:15:32
Speaker
Yeah, so where should I start? You were asking Chris about threat intelligence and kind of his background. Yeah, your journey. Like what led you to where you are today? And even like, feel free to dive into any rattle, any area like in your life, even from childhood, like that really shaped you. Yeah.
00:15:51
Speaker
You know, I would say that I am a son of cybersecurity. Look, I've been in cybersecurity my entire life, my entire career. It's something that I've been kind of raised to love. When I was early on in my life, I was playing sports a lot. And one way that me and my friends will connect was AOL instant messenger. We would connect over that.
00:16:13
Speaker
That medium and chat with one another and we would also be in chat rooms We would talk crap to one another and you know do things that teenage boys do but
00:16:25
Speaker
For anyone that's used AOL, you know that there are people that are hackers in there. There's people with skill sets. And this is before hackers was really a well-known term. And I got kicked out of a chat room. And this chat room I got kicked out of, I joined back in, and I was like, I need to know who kicked me out and how they did it. I'm a curious mind. So I finally found the person that kicked me out, and I instant messaged them. I said, hey,
00:16:54
Speaker
How did you do this? They said, I'll show you. They sent me what's known as a direct message, and AOL's Messenger is a feature. And it allows someone to send you a file. This person sent me a file, and it was an executable. It was a .exe. I didn't know what that meant at this time of my life, so I clicked it. I opened it. It installed some malware on my computer, and they started restarting my computer. They started opening the floppy disk drive.
00:17:21
Speaker
And well, they started opening the CD-ROM drive, sorry. And my computer started rebooting. I joined back up. I restarted my computer. I finally got them off. And I instant messaged them again. I said, hey, can you please teach me how to do this? And they sent me the application name. It was this application called ProRat. It's still around. I actually met the founder, the person that created that application, which was really cool for me.
00:17:49
Speaker
and I just kind of stuck with it ever since and I had a really great opportunity when I was about 16.
Ron's Cybersecurity Journey
00:17:56
Speaker
I was working at a public access channel. I was a cameraman. I had an internship and I was working for Anne Arundel County Public Access Channels. This is a local access channel for Maryland. It's a
00:18:12
Speaker
It's a county in Maryland. And there was a gentleman named Marcus Carey that walks in, and he wants to do a bit on cybersecurity. And I was reading a book on Cisco Certified Networking Associates, aka CCNA. And Marcus looked at me and he was like, hey, you know, you're a young guy. Why are you reading this book on CCNA? Like, you should have a million other things you should be doing.
00:18:38
Speaker
and trying to tackle, but if you want to be a hacker, let me know because I'm a hacker and I'm actually here to do a bit on cybersecurity.
00:18:46
Speaker
So Marcus Carey took me under his wing. I followed his practice. I'm a son of mentorship. I love mentorship. And this is one of the reasons why Chris and I get along so well is because Chris loves to distill wisdom and give that back to the community. I like to do the same thing. I also like to receive wisdom. I love to read. So through all this opportunity, through all the readings, through all of the just being in the right time and also practicing the right things in the right place,
00:19:15
Speaker
um has brought me here today in so you could have
00:19:25
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that you could have just stayed on the path of being incredible in in your being a practitioner. Still, you you both decided, okay, there needs to be something more than just being a practitioner. Like what what did that look like? And how did you join forces in that mission? And tell us a little bit about like the grand like the grand grand mission behind it.
Building a Brand and Podcast with Family Values
00:19:50
Speaker
I think you always got to plot. You always got to plot. You always have to scheme. Me and Chris were always plotting and scheming in the best way possible. We love finding opportunities, finding opportunities for ourselves, finding opportunities for people that don't have opportunities. Me and Chris, we both
00:20:08
Speaker
grew up in environments where there's not a lot of Black leaders. For me, I didn't have a lot of Black role models. So for me, when I met Marcus Carey, I really clung on to him. He was someone that looked like me, that spoke like me, that had a hustle like me. And when I met Chris, same thing. It's like, hey, this guy, he gets it. He wants to grind. He wants to hustle. And he also has a side of himself to where he's a family man. I think that is what brings Chris and I together
00:20:37
Speaker
so much is that we are both family oriented. I've had friends my whole life. Like my friends that I grew up with are the same friends that I have today. Chris, he is number one dad. He's a super dad. And I think like these characteristics of ourselves brings us together because we have this ambition that drives us, that fuels us. But we also have this side of us that keeps us together, keeps us loyal and keeps us on track for the things that are most important to us.
00:21:08
Speaker
Ron always talks about this concept of a dojo, which I think is so apt because I've been in martial arts my entire life. But when I was younger, I actually didn't have a lot of friends. I was always the kid that got bullied in middle school. It was terrible because we didn't have a lot of money. So
00:21:26
Speaker
My clothes were from the thrift store, often way too big. I remember tying my pants together with ropes just so they would fit. And so I would only be able to talk to myself and I would talk to myself in my head. And so I would iterate on
00:21:41
Speaker
on things like philosophy, even before I knew what philosophy was, but I would iterate on life, I would iterate on the things that I was learning, because I was really interested in science and technology, and I would just constantly think, think, think, think, think. And this would carry through all the way up into my adulthood, even beyond the Marine Corps. And I finally decided, probably like two years ago, two and a half years ago, that I was like, you know, I've been thinking of all of these things. I wonder if other people
00:22:07
Speaker
either think the same things that I think or need to hear the stuff that I think about and I was like you know maybe I should get into this podcast game and this was you know maybe six months before Ron and I started and I had done like this whole weight loss journey and I was
00:22:25
Speaker
trying to be motivational for folks. And it was moderately successful. Like, I mean, I don't think I did it to go viral or anything like that, but I definitely want people to show, to show people that I was vulnerable going through this transformation and changing my life for the better. And it was just perfect synergy with that, that timing with, you know, Ron had been doing videos for almost a year at that point. So he was real crisp and clean. He had the right equipment. And then here I come with this, this raw,
00:22:54
Speaker
unpolished information that I've been housing up in my head my entire life and then
00:23:01
Speaker
The thing that I think that makes it magical for me was the chemistry with Ron, like off the rip. Like episode one, as clunky as it is, we immediately just had this like natural back and forth.
Podcasting Chemistry and Knowledge Sharing
00:23:13
Speaker
And it's so funny, the most remarked thing that people mention when they get on a podcast with us is, you guys made it so easy because we have just that smooth flow. We want everybody to be comfortable. We want everybody to have a good time and have as much fun as we do.
00:23:30
Speaker
One thing that I will say that struck me in my journey through life and career is I met this gentleman who was wildly successful. And I was also going through this phase where I was reading a lot of books. And I read this book called The Alchemist. And in The Alchemist, this guy, he goes through all these journeys. And he meets a great king. And the great king actually has the answer to all his questions.
00:23:57
Speaker
And when I met this guy, his name is Kesar, when I met this guy, he actually had to answer all my questions. He told me, Ron, if you ever want to be successful at anything, it's going to be infinitely more easy if you have a co-founder.
00:24:13
Speaker
And then literally, I want to say a month later, Chris is like, Hey, I got this new job. I'm moving to San Jose. And I didn't necessarily think like, Oh, this is like that opportunity where I have to collaborate with Chris cause he's my co-founder, but.
00:24:29
Speaker
it naturally happened and i think that that's what he was suggesting to me he was suggesting like if you find a collaborator that can be on the same level as you or even greater then it's going to propel you and all of your ideas to that next level and i think that's exactly what chris and i have done we've kind of melded our minds and careers together and this is where the podcast comes it comes from wisdom it comes from experience and it comes from
00:24:57
Speaker
a lot of collaboration that we've just been doing for the past two years now. So you're doing something very unique in the industry. I am a podcast connoisseur and I just consume and and I would listen to several different podcasts in the security industry and when I came across well usually what you hear if you haven't listened to a cyber security podcast is usually about
00:25:25
Speaker
Everything from incredibly, you can say, exciting stories of the greatest crimes that have ever been committed and how they were committed. And sometimes it gets technical, sometimes it doesn't, depending on what podcast you listen to. And sometimes it's interviews, sometimes it's frameworks and best practices and top level people.
00:25:46
Speaker
And for people who are not in the cybersecurity industry, what I think is incredibly fascinating, there's always, there's this phenomenon of a superstardom in cybersecurity. It's almost like there are, you can say athletes, super athletes, mental athletes, like you've said before, Chris.
00:26:04
Speaker
And there's a lot of, it's very heavily masculine dominated. And I know there are changes going on. And I know your podcast is promoting diversity and equality. And that's part of the message you're spreading with your mission as well.
00:26:25
Speaker
But what makes your podcast unique when sometimes when I drop into them, you start talking about the self practice, like self discovery practices from breath work to journaling to affirmations to philosophy, like what you're talking about right now, Chris and Ron and going into mentorships and really like digging into like, how can I become better? And that's that's tearing down the traditional model and really made me open up my mind like, wow, like I can actually have these
00:26:54
Speaker
open conversations about stuff that I love with other security professionals. And that's a barrier that took some time for me to realize that I didn't think I could do that. And I commend you for doing that because then by you showing up like that in the world, now I started like, all right, let me try this. Let me start opening myself up to other security practitioners. And they were all for it.
00:27:18
Speaker
And it was such a rare thing. But it's like it happened during our last conversation. I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna go all out there and throw out some of the spiritual epiphanies and insights that I've come to. And you were all for it. I'm like, whoa, I thought they'd be looking at me sideways. But that's really what it feels like that you're doing with Hacker Valley Media.
00:27:42
Speaker
So maybe you can go into more of the mission and kind of what you've, even, what was it when you started? What is it now? What is the journey being like and what do you see in the future?
Amplifying Diverse Voices on the Podcast
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, so we had Laura Garnett on the podcast and she dissected Ron and I like nobody's business. It's a good episode. It's different, different than our usual episodes. So she came on with the intent of dissecting us. Like that's all we did for the entire episode.
00:28:09
Speaker
And my superpower is taking something from dream to reality. But my purpose in life is to amplify, magnify, and share the stories of diverse people from all around the world to inspire others. And that's all we've wanted to do this entire time. When we started the podcast, we weren't even thinking about money. It wasn't until like episode 50 or something like that when we had M.K.
00:28:39
Speaker
come on to the podcast. And at the end, he's like, I love working with young entrepreneurs. I was like, entrepreneurs, we ain't making any money. But I mean, but now this is this is what we do. Like, even if all of our sponsorships went away, our Patreon, all that stuff went away, we would continue to do this because
00:28:58
Speaker
We love having an excuse to talk to high performing, interesting people and then being able to take that knowledge that we learn and sharing it with everybody. And so people come back to us and say, wow, I learned so much from this person or that person that I'm just like them. Like that means the world to us to know that even if you help one person with a podcast, then that time was well worth it. Any thoughts on your side, Ron? Any additions?
00:29:28
Speaker
You know, just to add on that, one of the mentions that Laura had for myself, and we both had these things called core emotional challenges. And my core emotional challenge was not have my value understood. I'm a creative solution strategist. So like my superpower is identifying these solutions and creating a strategy around them. And when my values don't understood, it's a challenge internally for me.
00:29:57
Speaker
And I think for me now my purpose to myself is to identify and highlight these stories for cybersecurity practitioners and people and technology. And even going beyond that, we recently had a chess grandmaster come on to the podcast and he did an amazing job. We talked about the parallels between cybersecurity and playing chess without even knowing much about cybersecurity. We had the same thing happen when we had a
00:30:26
Speaker
martial artists, a former martial artist. He's now a commentator and analyst. He came on the podcast. He was asking us if we knew what an OODA loop was. And this is a term that's very commonly used in cybersecurity. And it was kind of the opportunity to have other people's values understood. Like now that's my core emotional challenge.
00:30:47
Speaker
is highlighting the values of other people and bringing them to light. So that's like how I'm using my superpower and how my core emotional challenges is changing over time. And it's really in line with the podcast. I think that's what has really helped myself and Chris develop this platform and the voices even more.
00:31:10
Speaker
I am learning more and getting more and more intrigued. Really, it's like you dive into a book and you're so fascinated by the book. And then sometimes when you listen to an interview and you actually, oh, who actually wrote this book? Most of the times I usually find myself disappointed. Who is the actor of this movie? But sometimes you're like, whoa.
00:31:33
Speaker
this person, this guy, this girl is a freakin bad as well. I love this person. And this is what it feels like right now. Like, whoa, you guys are even more intriguing than I expected and how you come together and doing it together. With and I think even touching on it more, if you were to explain
00:31:54
Speaker
In short, what are highlights they've experienced in the cybersecurity industry, but even some of the darkest moments?
Transitioning into Cybersecurity and Imposter Syndrome
00:32:03
Speaker
There are many of us who have no clue what cybersecurity is. They read about China, Russia, Iran, Iraq, North Korea hacking. They read about Donald Trump. They read about all kinds of stuff in the news and on TV.
00:32:21
Speaker
what what is it like behind the scenes i would say one thing that was dark for me is this feeling because i had to go from intelligence to cyber security and that in between stage it was real dicey like i could have easily said you know what forget all this cyber scary stuff i'm going somewhere else because there's that a little bit of imposter syndrome that comes along with it because you're dealing with folks that have been
00:32:45
Speaker
database access managers that you've been dealing with folks that have worked helpdesk or they've been in IT for 10 years and here I come, coming brand new into the industry and all I really understand is intelligence and threats. That's basically all I knew. I knew a little bit of terminology and what they meant when they said certain things but I didn't have any working knowledge.
00:33:07
Speaker
So working through that, like actually getting the hands on tactile experience that I needed to be able to have those conversations was a tough place for me. And it's dark because you feel almost hopeless. But I would say on the flip side is one of the highlights is when I would say pretty recently actually is when I was having a conversation with my entire team.
00:33:31
Speaker
And they were working through a problem. And they were like, oh, we just cannot figure this out. And I'm just like, you just do this, this, this, and this. And to me, it's just common knowledge. But to them, they're like, oh, wow, we didn't think of it that way. So being able to make an impact with your experience, with your knowledge, your way of thinking, that's some of the best things that can happen in cybersecurity. For me, it's a bit similar, a bit different.
00:34:01
Speaker
three and a half, four years, I spent time being a cybersecurity vendor. And this is similar to creating like,
00:34:10
Speaker
health or medical devices for first responders. The device itself has to work perfectly. These first responders are expecting to get in the ambulance and use these devices in a seamless way. And for me, like one of the most challenging parts of cybersecurity was creating the products for the incident responders.
00:34:35
Speaker
There is similar to the first responders, there's these instant responders that get an alert or get an event and they have to respond immediately and they need all their tools working in an orchestrated way to get to the bottom of an event, to triage the event.
00:34:53
Speaker
And for me as a security vendor, it was very challenging to actually answer all the problems for these incident responders in the first shot. Because we'll see some of the things that one incident responder does and it doesn't necessarily translate to another incident responder. So a great example of this is a gas and oil company and a financial institution.
00:35:17
Speaker
These challenges, these problems that they both face are very different. So for me, as on the vendor side, I had to come up with solutions that can serve both practitioners and answer responders that are working in the gas and oil industry and working in the financial institution industry and have them use one unified tool to respond to critical events that can cause damage to their organization.
00:35:45
Speaker
very challenging. It's stressful because as they're responding to the incident and as our tools break down, we're required to give them the solution to triage that incident. So I felt like I was almost working on a live ventilator while these incident responders are resuscitating their patients. They're bringing these incidents to life and their ventilator breaks down.
00:36:13
Speaker
They call me. I'm like, all right, you have to turn it on. You have to turn it off. You have to like unscrew it. You have to put these pieces into place and then turn it back on. And now your patient is going to come back to life. And I was doing that with cybersecurity incidents. Very stressful, but also very
Educating Youth for a Safer Cyber Future
00:36:30
Speaker
exciting because that was a way that I could provide an impact to the industry and also to the practitioners that are working within the industry.
00:36:40
Speaker
Sounds like a incident commander of sorts of a pro bono incident commander He called that wrong hotline and you get a freaking yeah commander Barking not out orders, but you I mean being in a space for a while
00:36:57
Speaker
I can truly relate to what you were saying. It kind of feels like you're that chief at home base when firefighters call in. And I'm going to make an analogy here to the fires here in California of all these different fires happening left and right. And all that you look at is the big picture.
00:37:17
Speaker
Then you start okay figuring out how do I provide these solutions to send what where and what to utilize when and how Maybe that's glorifying it but a little bit, but I think you deserve that and interactions that we've had Ron On that note of fighting fires What is the fire that you think needs to be thought right now?
00:37:43
Speaker
in the security industry that is not being looked at. And I'm talking about more on the practitioner side.
00:37:51
Speaker
I think our youth, our youth are our future. And if we bring the education, we bring the training, we bring the awareness to our youth, then we're ultimately going to create a more positive and safe environment for everyone in the future. I remember when I was a kid, my parents looked up to me in some ways to provide them
00:38:13
Speaker
support for their electronics. And if I would have had more training as a kid to provide my parents this insight that I was so fascinated on, then they would have been even better off. And I think we can look at the same for cybersecurity. There's a lot of
00:38:32
Speaker
young kids that are really interested into the field. They're curious about technology, they're curious about security, they're curious about privacy. And if we can give this information back to them, they can teach their parents, they can teach their friends, and they can also teach themselves how to create for a more secure and safe environment in the future.
00:38:56
Speaker
How about you, Chris? Yeah, I would follow up on what Ron said.
Open Mindset for Cybersecurity Innovation
00:39:00
Speaker
I think the fire that we're fighting is a mindset. And I think it's a mind of having a fixed mindset. One of the things that we try to tell people about is like, you know, look at the cybersecurity practitioner as a whole, right? What are the things from a fitness, mindfulness,
00:39:19
Speaker
productivity, what are all the components of the cybersecurity professional? Like you were talking about, you know, I really do think of cybersecurity professionals as mental athletes with no off season, especially those incident responders. They are doing stuff like really, really taxing on the energy levels, really taxing on mental energy. So really thinking about
00:39:44
Speaker
how do we open up the aperture of learning? How do we open up the aperture of being open to new ideas and innovation? Because there are pockets where innovation is cultivated, but then there are also pockets where innovation is killed, and people don't have learning environments where they can operate safely. You know, you have these brilliant jerks, as they call them, and, oh, you didn't know that, what an idiot.
00:40:11
Speaker
just right there, you just killed the learning environment. So folks need to, we need to adopt more learning environments, adopt more pushing the envelope of what a practitioner needs to be successful. And I think that we'd all be better for it.
00:40:31
Speaker
having and this is one of the things that fascinates me is the threshold to entering I thought that was sky high and astronomical at one point and I realized it's not at one point there are a lot of leaders who show grace and the biggest thing is not about having technical knowledge to them one of the biggest things and I've heard you I think say it too is they look for are you coachable are you curious
00:40:55
Speaker
Do you want to learn? And also do you have business skills? And communication is one of the biggest things. So thank you for that, Chris. So wrapping things up, are there any final notes that you want to leave any of the guests with?
Gratitude and Listener Engagement
00:41:11
Speaker
I know Hacker Valley Studio is where they can find you anywhere else and any departing messages.
00:41:17
Speaker
I would say you're in the right place. Sebastian, we've been nothing but thrilled with being your friend, talking to you on a regular basis. So everyone is listening to this. Definitely subscribe to this podcast. But yeah, I mean, you can find us easily at hackervalley.com or anywhere we really big on LinkedIn. So reach out to us on there. We're friendly faces. So definitely reach out and say hi and tell us you came from this podcast.
00:41:45
Speaker
I'll also say, Sebastian, it's been a great pleasure to, one, be on your podcast, but two, to get to know you over time. I think that your listeners are in for a treat being able to explore the male and the feminine part of just life. And we're talking about technology. So you're kind of going beyond just the human element. You're going to something that's even deeper within people.
00:42:11
Speaker
And it's a pleasure to talk to you. For anyone that checks out our podcast, more than happy to have you. It's a great honor to have this platform and have the opportunity to speak to listeners and speak to amazing guests and also to other amazing hosts like yourself.
00:42:31
Speaker
Chris and Ron, your chain makers, thank you for being who you are and coming on this podcast. And yeah, from the extended community too. I appreciate what you do and everything in the security community. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
00:42:51
Speaker
There's the saying, you all heard it before, you're the average of the five closest people to you. Ron and Chris are in my close group. Damn, they bring me up into another level. I'm very grateful for them. All the links to their profiles on social as well as Hacker Valley Studios and the show notes.
00:43:12
Speaker
Check them out. It's worth it. If not, just learning what is going on on the forefront of cyber security. There are some very intriguing, impressive things. It's really the modern firefighters. So it's been an absolute pleasure having them on and I hope you enjoyed it as well. Chat next week. Give me some feedback. I love it. I appreciate it. Much love. Thanks.