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Ep 13. Girish Menon, CEO STiR Education: Transforming the lives of 60 million children
67 Plays4 years ago
“Education systems are failing (to prepare) children to face a world of unknown unknowns.”
53% of children coming out of world education systems are ‘learning poor’.
STiR Education is striving to create a world where every child develops a love for life-long learning, through reigniting intrinsic motivation in teachers and building supportive education eco-systems.
It’s goal is to reach 60 million children in public education systems worldwide by 2025.
STiR Education (Schools and Teachers Innovating for Results) was started in 2012, and in just 8 years has reached an incredible 6 million children and 200k teachers across India and Uganda.
In this episode I speak with Girish Menon, the CEO of STiR Education, about STiR’s programmes, aiming to create more effective public education systems where teachers love teaching and children love learning.
We explore the colossal impact the pandemic has had on children’s education and stalled progress towards the UN Sustainable Development Goal for Education - “to ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote life-long learning opportunities for all”.
Over a billion children and young people worldwide have had their education disrupted this past year, over 500 million of whom have no effective access to remote learning. With over 24 million children at serious risk of not going back to school, it is vital that governments of the world prioritise investment in education and education systems.
Girish also shares his leadership wisdom gained over 30 years working in the international development sector.
Recorded February 2021.
Guest Biography
Girish joined STiR in January 2021 after five years as Chief Executive at ActionAid UK. He has more than 30 years’ experience as a leader in the international development sector, having previously held roles as International Programmes Director and Deputy CEO at Water Aid UK, where he was responsible for programmes in 22 countries across Africa and South Asia.
Girish was born and brought up in India and started his career with the Aga Khan Rural Support Programme. He has also worked in India with ActionAid, Plan International and DFID. Since moving to London in 2005, he has also served on the boards of various non-profit organisations. He is currently on the Board of Hope and Homes for Children.
Links
https://stireducation.org/
53% of children coming out of world education systems are ‘learning poor’.
STiR Education is striving to create a world where every child develops a love for life-long learning, through reigniting intrinsic motivation in teachers and building supportive education eco-systems.
It’s goal is to reach 60 million children in public education systems worldwide by 2025.
STiR Education (Schools and Teachers Innovating for Results) was started in 2012, and in just 8 years has reached an incredible 6 million children and 200k teachers across India and Uganda.
In this episode I speak with Girish Menon, the CEO of STiR Education, about STiR’s programmes, aiming to create more effective public education systems where teachers love teaching and children love learning.
We explore the colossal impact the pandemic has had on children’s education and stalled progress towards the UN Sustainable Development Goal for Education - “to ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote life-long learning opportunities for all”.
Over a billion children and young people worldwide have had their education disrupted this past year, over 500 million of whom have no effective access to remote learning. With over 24 million children at serious risk of not going back to school, it is vital that governments of the world prioritise investment in education and education systems.
Girish also shares his leadership wisdom gained over 30 years working in the international development sector.
Recorded February 2021.
Guest Biography
Girish joined STiR in January 2021 after five years as Chief Executive at ActionAid UK. He has more than 30 years’ experience as a leader in the international development sector, having previously held roles as International Programmes Director and Deputy CEO at Water Aid UK, where he was responsible for programmes in 22 countries across Africa and South Asia.
Girish was born and brought up in India and started his career with the Aga Khan Rural Support Programme. He has also worked in India with ActionAid, Plan International and DFID. Since moving to London in 2005, he has also served on the boards of various non-profit organisations. He is currently on the Board of Hope and Homes for Children.
Links
https://stireducation.org/
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Transcript
Impact of Pandemic on Global Education
00:00:00
Speaker
public education systems reach where no others reach. So we really want the system to thrive. If we are really building back better, then we should be prioritizing education because a year has been lost, a year of human capital has been lost, a year of learning has been lost, and we are talking of 1.6 billion children who have been out of schools. If there's one thing that the governments should be doing, in addition to, of course,
00:00:26
Speaker
making sure that they prepare themselves and their health systems better to deal with the pandemic. The other big thing they need to do is to invest in education so that we recoup that lost time. We have to doubly accelerate the progress towards achieving that inclusive and quality education for all. If children don't get to school, we know it's going to have a huge impact on economic development, on gender inequalities, on safety, on climate change, you name it, the economy will suffer.
Introduction to the Charity CEO Podcast
00:01:05
Speaker
Welcome to Season 2 of the Charity CEO Podcast, the podcast for charity leaders by charity leaders. This is the show that gets beneath the surface of issues, engaging in meaningful and inspirational conversations with leaders from across the sector.
00:01:21
Speaker
I'm Olivia O'Connor and each episode I will be interviewing a charity leader who will share with us their insights, knowledge and topical expertise on challenges facing our sector in these turbulent times. This show is for everyone who cares about the important work of charities.
STIR Education's Mission and Goals
00:01:38
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Guishmanan is the chief executive of STIR Education, a relatively young organisation currently working in India and Uganda, with big ambitions to reach 60 million children in public education systems worldwide by 2025.
00:01:53
Speaker
STIR education is all about creating a world where teachers love teaching and children love learning. And this concept of igniting a passion for lifelong learning is integral to improving the life chances of disadvantaged children. We talk about the impact of the pandemic on children and their learning and how it is vitally important to now focus on rebuilding education and life pathways for our children. I hope you enjoyed the show.
00:02:25
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Hi, Girish.
Insights from Girish Menon
00:02:26
Speaker
Welcome to the show. So great to have you here today. Hi, Divya. Thank you very much for having me. It's my pleasure. So we always start off the show with an icebreaker round of some get to know you questions. And if you're ready, we can dive straight in.
00:02:38
Speaker
I'm absolutely ready. Looking forward to that now. Question one. Can you name a book or a person that has had a profound impact on you as a leader? Sure. A book called The Speed of Trust by Stephen Covey. Trust is so much important. It's such an important component of all our relationships. And that's one thing that's etched in my mind. Question two. What are three words that your team would use to describe you?
00:03:05
Speaker
That's going to be a tricky one. I suppose they would say friendly, chatty, approachable, I suppose. Excellent. I think the next question may also be a bit tricky because this one is, what are three words that your children would use to describe you? I think my children will say that I'm caring, I'm kind. I can probably be giving too much advice all the time.
00:03:35
Speaker
That's pretty good. I think you've got some good compliments there from your kids. So, if you could go on holiday anywhere in the world right now without worrying about the coronavirus, so let's pretend the whole pandemic never happened, where would you like to go? Oh, Costa Rica. I've been there once on work. I just didn't have enough of the beautiful country. I'd absolutely love to go back again. Yes, it's one place that I haven't been actually, but I've heard it's absolutely beautiful. It is. It is.
00:04:04
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So our final icebreaker question, if you had the opportunity to interview anyone in the world dead or alive, who would it be and what one question would you like to ask them? Barack Obama? And I would ask him what inspires him? That's such a good question. Who inspires him? Yeah.
00:04:23
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Who or what inspires them? Yes, such a good question.
Founding of STIR Education
00:04:27
Speaker
So Girish, after five years of being at the helm of ActionAid UK, you have recently moved to take up the chief exec role at STIR Education. Now STIR Education is a relatively young organization having started in 2012.
00:04:43
Speaker
but in just eight years has reached an incredible six million children and 200,000 teachers across India and Uganda. So tell us about the origins of STIR education and what the organization does.
00:04:58
Speaker
Stern is a fascinating organization, Divya, and as you said, it's a young organization, relatively small. It was founded by Sharath Jeevan, an academic, somebody who's very passionate about education and a social entrepreneur, and somebody who's extremely well-read, well-informed, and well-connected. And this was his dream, and he was probably in his mid-30s when he came up with his dream, where he felt that the missing piece in education is around
00:05:27
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the role of
Reigniting Teachers' Motivation
00:05:28
Speaker
teachers and how undervalued or unrecognized that is. He was absolutely convinced that education systems are failing children to face a world of unknown unknowns. It's a very complicated world, there's so many challenges and the pandemic is just an example of the biggest challenge that all of us are facing and he strongly believed based on his experience that education systems are probably not delivering to
00:05:56
Speaker
getting children prepared for a world that is so complex, so challenging. So that's how he set up STIRB with a vision of a world where every child develops a love for lifelong learning.
00:06:12
Speaker
And to do that, he felt that it's really important to reignite intrinsic motivation among teachers and among the officials so that the teachers fall back in love with teaching and officials fall in love with supporting teachers. So why does everything about children and developing a love for lifelong learning
00:06:34
Speaker
It was also about the ecosystem around them with the important role of teachers and the important role of officials around them. And you're absolutely right about the very impressive figures of REACH and that has happened because STIR has a very unique and distinctive approach of working directly in partnerships with governments.
00:06:55
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at the national, state, and district level, and while working in a district, working across all the schools in the district, and therefore all the children who are school-going children in that particular district. So it's been a fascinating journey for the last eight years, and I'm so privileged to come into such a well-run organization with such a deep passion and commitment for education, for learning, for reflection, and for essentially making that contribution
00:07:24
Speaker
I'd like to talk a bit more perhaps later on about how you work with governments, but you mentioned there the concepts of intrinsic motivation and lifelong learning as really the twin pillars of your program design. Can you give us a bit more detail on how your programs actually work on the ground and explain this framework to us a little bit more?
Framework for Enhancing Educational Outcomes
00:07:44
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Sure.
00:07:46
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broadly categorize intrinsic motivation as inputs in terms of what we do and lifelong learning as outcomes in terms of what we achieve. So intrinsic motivation is different from
00:08:03
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some of the extrinsic motivation factors. So how can you build that motivation of teachers which come from within? So it's not about teacher salaries that's outside them. It's not about the school building or the quality of classrooms or any of the infrastructure that goes with the teacher. It's about
00:08:27
Speaker
What motivates them to deliver their best? What motivates the educational officials to deliver the best? And let's talk about it as autonomy.
00:08:35
Speaker
mastery and purpose. So autonomy is where the teachers and the officials feel that they have the responsibility, the space and the freedom to determine the cause of action. It's their agency. So it's not somebody pushing them and telling them to do things, but it's their agency where they take control of what needs to be done in the best interests of the child and of course the education system.
00:09:00
Speaker
When we talk of mastery, it's that thing about continuous improvement. It's about getting better. It's steeped in the concepts of learning and it's steeped in developing the growth mindset in people so that you're constantly looking at ways in which you can improve and therefore be better and better and better. Finally, it's about the purpose. It's about creating that shared meaning. It's about relating
00:09:25
Speaker
their role with a wider purpose that of inculcating that love for lifelong learning of my children so those are the inputs if i may so intrinsic motivation as understood in terms of autonomy mastery and purpose.
00:09:39
Speaker
The outcomes that we seek are divided into six categories, and that's the lifelong learning. So what we have identified is the foundations of lifelong learning and breaking down into things that we actually work on where we can employ practical strategies. So one is engagement. When we talk about the foundations of lifelong learning, we're looking at it from the perspective of children, teachers, and the officials involved.
00:10:07
Speaker
So engagement, so it's about how well people are engaged in their role, in their classroom, in their relationships, let's say between the teacher and the student or between the officials and the teachers. We're talking of self-esteem. It's about each one recognizing the power and the influence that they have and building that confidence and the dignity for themselves.
00:10:30
Speaker
Third thing is safety. It's about physical and emotional safety. Fourth is about curiosity and critical thinking, so asking those difficult questions or even being open to ask those questions and not being afraid of asking them.
00:10:45
Speaker
It's about intentional teaching so that more and more time is devoted by the teachers in actually purposeful teaching and finally the learning time where children, teachers and officials commit to constant improvement. So we consider these to be the six foundations of lifelong learning and these are the outcomes to which we work. So let me take the example of India where we work across three states. We work in Delhi, in Tamil Nadu and in Karnataka.
00:11:13
Speaker
So in each of the three states, we would start with a discussion with the state government because it's really important for us to get the buy-in right from the very beginning.
00:11:22
Speaker
And then with the state government, we identified districts where we can try out this approach because it's really important that the district, the role of the district is recognized. They are the ones who are somewhere in between. Above them, you have the state, which is quite a large entity. And then you have the blocks in the clusters and indeed the schools. So the district becomes a very key part in the whole governance of the education system.
00:11:47
Speaker
Once we have the buying from the state, we go with them to look at which districts we can start the programs in, and we engage with two parts of the district education system. One is the administrative part, which typically is represented by, let's say, the district education officer. They're the ones who are responsible for administering the education system in the district.
00:12:09
Speaker
And the other part is more of the training and the education side. So you have the district institutes for education and training who are the ones who are responsible for continuous professional development of the teachers. They are the ones who support the teachers in delivering what they need to do. So there are these two wings at the district level and we work with both of them to ensure that we work across the system.
00:12:32
Speaker
So the way we define our programs is we define it in terms of systems learning partnerships, because we work throughout the system from the school to the state, from the state right down to the school, and work through these iterative relationships in between. We strongly believe in what we call role modeling and relationships building.
00:12:54
Speaker
It's very important, for example, for the teachers to be conscious of what behaviors they are modeling in the class when they're with students. It's very important for the officials to role model the right behaviors. It's very important for the relationships to be the right kind of relationship between teachers and students and between officials and teachers so that, again,
00:13:14
Speaker
everybody works towards developing and strengthening these foundations of lifelong learning. And in terms of practical activities, we talk about peer networks. So there are teachers networks, there are 20 to 30 teachers who meet on a regular basis as a forum for sharing ideas, as action and feedback, because we have what's called learning improvement cycles,
00:13:38
Speaker
which is a constant co-creation process where they look at what is it that we need to learn? What is it we need to do to improve ourselves? What are we seeing that we find very challenging? How do we overcome those challenges? Finally, a process of reflection because there's so much of coaching and feedback that happens. We build in reflection as a very important part of our programmatic framework. All of that is driving us towards improving the overall systems,
00:14:06
Speaker
the behaviors, the culture, and the relationships in the system so that these systems actually deliver for the children and prepare them for this world of unknown unknowns. And it's also very important because
00:14:21
Speaker
It's in the government education systems that a vast majority of the children from the disadvantaged families or from the marginalized families or from the poorer families, they actually go as kids from better families would go to a fee paying private school. So it's really, really important to nurture the systems. So I also see that as a social justice approach and how we side with that part of the community who do not have the resources or those privileges.
00:14:51
Speaker
Yes, such a fascinating model that you described there, Girish. And it also strikes me that there are lots of different layers to it in terms of setting the growth mindset and then looking at co-creation. And of course, you have the feedback loops. How receptive have you found the government in India, for example, to working in this
Partnerships with Governments
00:15:10
Speaker
way?
00:15:10
Speaker
I understand that you don't get any funding from government so when government don't have a vested interest in terms of putting money in, how receptive have they been and how difficult or easy has it been to integrate into the public education system?
00:15:24
Speaker
You're right Divya, we don't get any funding from the government. What we do is we build partnerships and also recognizing that the government is by far the largest player in the education sector and we are really tiny compared to them. Our offer is to leverage those resources and make it work better. We are very conscious of the fact that governments across the world a few years ago, they signed up to the sustainable development goals.
00:15:49
Speaker
or the SDGs. So SDG 4 is about inclusive and quality education and promote lifelong learning for all. So our offer is that we are here to partner with you on a commitment that you've already made
00:16:06
Speaker
And we are very keen to share our expertise and our insights with you to make that work. So we are not substituting the government's role. We are not substituting the government's model or approach. We are not even saying we are better than anybody else. All that we are saying is that we have an offer that's distinctive. We have built on the evidence from the past, but we also built on the evidence of lots of other players, lots of literature, a lot of academics who have worked on this. And this is our offer.
00:16:35
Speaker
to strengthen and improve that system. So we find governments very, very receptive to this because we are signing on to an agenda that the government itself has set. So at the global level, nobody can argue with the SDGs because it's something that world leaders have signed up to. At the national level, for example, in India, we have the new education policy. If you look at the new education policy, there's a lot in it about teachers' motivation.
00:17:00
Speaker
There's a lot in it about teachers' professional development. There's a lot in it about issues of safety and self-esteem. There's a lot in it about working with others to make the education systems work better. So basically, we are offering to work in partnership with the government on things that governments have committed to. But as we know that in a large country like India, for that matter, in any emerging economy or in any developing country,
00:17:28
Speaker
Education is usually challenging and we're very, very conscious of the fact that a lot of effort has gone into improving access to education, which is extremely important. We believe that our work starts once the children come into the schools. So we don't work on the access side. The loss of organizations doing
00:17:45
Speaker
Tremendous work on that side even governments do a lot of work on that so we don't work so much on the access to education side we don't work on the infrastructure side but what we want and offer is that once children come into school how can we make that experience so enjoyable.
00:18:04
Speaker
that they invest in and they actually commit to and absolutely develop this love for lifelong learning so that once they come out of the education system, they feel much better placed. Now look at data we have from the Confederation of Indian Industries, CII.
00:18:20
Speaker
which says that 50% of young people who complete the education are unemployable so we need to ask a question. Why is that so? It's not that they're illiterate or uneducated, they have come out of the education system and they're unemployable. The World Bank says that 53% of students in the education systems are learning poor.
00:18:41
Speaker
I suppose a part of it is because a lot of effort or a lot of focus or emphasis of education has been on the literacy and the numeracy skills because they're easily measurable. Of course, that's absolutely core. You don't want anybody to come out of an education system
00:19:00
Speaker
who do not have the core literacy and numeracy skills. What we believe is that that's just the beginning of that education process. How do you really use that literacy and numeracy skills so that you actually empower children to think about issues of power, of privilege, of social justice, of climate change, of citizenship, and the role that they can play in society, be it as a facilitator, be it as a leader, be it as a professional,
00:19:25
Speaker
That's an offer. Let's not stop with the academics. We completely recognize and we absolutely underline the importance of academic achievements. There's no two ways about it, but that's not enough. You need to support children in developing their social and emotional skills alongside those academic skills so that they are much better prepared to face the world that they're getting into.
00:19:50
Speaker
It's quite incredible, that statistic that you just quoted there in terms of 53% of children coming out of world education systems are effectively learning poor.
Multiplier Effect of Lifelong Learning Models
00:20:00
Speaker
And I am a big fan of models that have leverage where you essentially have a multiplier effect. And I can see that in the work that STAIR Education is doing, that lifelong learning, really leveraging that actually has huge benefits for children and for economies and countries more widely as well.
00:20:19
Speaker
So how do you measure and evaluate success at STIR Education? That's a very important question Divya. So there are a whole range of methods that we do that. First of all, again, we rely a lot on the government data because anything that we do on measurements, we would like that as well being embedded in the government system. Again, we are very careful not to
00:20:41
Speaker
create a parallel system that sits outside the government system. Because if we are for the government education system, monitoring and evaluation has to be an embedded part of systems strengthening or systems improvement or whatever term we use. We use the term systems learning partnership. So we consider the monitoring and evaluation as being part of that. So what we do is that we go back to those six foundations of lifelong learning and for each one of them, be they on engagement, self-esteem, safety,
00:21:11
Speaker
curiosity and critical thinking intentional teaching and learning time.
00:21:15
Speaker
We have clear indicators, outcome indicators for each one of those. We have looked at some world-class indicators that, for example, the World Bank uses or other aid agencies, international aid agencies have been using or developed by various academic institutions. So we use those indicators to actually measure the progress on that. We then collect data on a monthly basis. So there's something called a monthly progress check.
00:21:43
Speaker
That data is collected through a sample observation across a number of schools where STIR colleagues go alongside the district level and the block level officials to observe what is happening. They use technology to upload that information which is then compiled on a monthly basis across each district and then compiled at a state and national level.
00:22:05
Speaker
Then alongside that, there are other surveys that are done from time to time. An important part of the Monitoring and Evaluation is what we call the Longitudinal Study, which is looking at the progress over a period of years. Now, of course, the most mature program for us is only four years old. I won't say early days, but there's still a long way for us to go. But the Longitudinal Studies have been looking at what progress is being made.
00:22:30
Speaker
In terms of both on the motivation side and also how that contributes to lifelong learning and there's some interesting statistics in that which. May not sound like massive but actually when we look at what the situation was before it's it's quite important for example.
00:22:47
Speaker
87% of the teachers now say that they receive observation that the people observe how they teach. That's very important because they were left in limbo for a long time. Nobody cared, nobody bothered. In fact, many teachers were even asked to do all kinds of stuff that has got nothing to do with education because they are the only people who are available at the community level. But now they are in the class, they are teaching and people are observing them.
00:23:11
Speaker
98% of the teachers said that we are getting feedback. And that's very important because then when you talk to teachers and we asked some teachers in Uganda what they felt about this whole system of giving feedback and somebody called Hilda, she said something which is quite articulate. She said earlier, the district officials used to come for inspection.
00:23:32
Speaker
and to check and to find fault and to criticize, but now they come to support us and ask us what you need. They sit there, watch me teach, they give me feedback so that I can improve. The relationship has changed tremendously. Now just imagine the value and the power of that change in relationship on her motivation, therefore what she gives, what she's able to deliver to the class.
00:23:56
Speaker
We have also commissioned evaluations with, for example, the Oxford Education Partnership or a DFID commission research, a DFID supported research in Delhi, where they have identified early signs of how these concepts and these practices are now getting embedded within the systems. And that's really important because when we talk about intrinsic motivation or when we talk about lifelong learning,
00:24:23
Speaker
These are all processes. Intricate and they're complex processes of change that requires a constant and a steady momentum over a period of time. So we realize that we are in that business of doing some complex work here. It would have been easier if we were doing for example school buildings or buying textbooks and those are again important.
00:24:45
Speaker
But the easier to measure what we're doing is more difficult to measure. So we're constantly even reflecting. So after every round of longitudinal study that's done by an external agency, there's a reflection on what measures worked, what measures didn't work. So for example, we are now looking at statistics on teacher absenteeism now.
00:25:03
Speaker
We know that teacher absenteeism is a big part of the problem that we have seen within the education sector. So how can you work on that one statistic to improve? How do you go behind the statistics to find what's the story behind that? What is causing it, and how do you make it better? But equally, how would it impact on the learning ability? So there are lots and lots of data on that, but those things are being populated as we go along. But at the end of it, very broadly, what we are looking for is
00:25:33
Speaker
is that behavior change happening? And is that evidenced in the data? Because as I mentioned earlier, role modeling and relationship building are so crucial for us that we would like to see the change in that behavior. There are still some areas that we are not entirely happy about. So for example, when we ask children whether they find the environment in school safe, 95% of the children said, yes, we find that safe.
00:26:01
Speaker
But equally when we went for observation we also found that teachers in some cases were using corporal punishment. The children didn't see that as part of safety because for them that is an accepted cultural practice. In fact we've had even children saying that
00:26:18
Speaker
Yes, we do need a bit of a punishment now and then. So they didn't see that as an element of safety. We do see that as an element of safety. So that's something that we need to work on because, again, it's about behaviors. It's about role modeling. So if a teacher were to role model a form of corporal punishment or a verbal punishment in class, the teacher also needs to give a bit of thought on what message is being given.
00:26:44
Speaker
to the child when the child comes out and is a member of society. So certainly something needs to change. So these things, these pieces of information and evidence give us a lot of insights on what more needs to happen when you're talking of behavior change.
00:26:59
Speaker
I love the example that you gave there earlier of Hilda and I think it's so important to essentially rebalance the relationship between the education officials in terms of moving from all the command and control type system to a system where the important role of the teachers really recognize and it's more collaborative and teachers feel empowered to then ignite, as you say, that love for learning amongst their students.
00:27:27
Speaker
So Girish, I'd like to talk a bit more about the global context here and indeed the SDG that you mentioned there earlier. So the pandemic has obviously had a huge impact on children's education. It is estimated that currently a third of children across the world are not physically in school.
COVID-19's Impact on Education
00:27:48
Speaker
And according to the UN, 500 million children across the world have actually no access or no effective access to remote learning.
00:27:57
Speaker
So can you elaborate on how far the COVID-19 pandemic has set us back with respect to the UN's Sustainable Development Goal for Education and what this really means for children?
00:28:09
Speaker
It's an issue of grave concern, Divya. And when we look at some of the figures, so for example, even before the pandemic, one estimate suggested that at current rates of progress by 2030, 200 million children will still be out of school. Wow.
00:28:28
Speaker
post pandemic, that number has gone up to 260 million. So 60 million children have just been added to it. And of course, these are all estimates, but it gives an insight into what might be coming down the road. There's another estimate, which is about 10 million girl children may never come back into secondary schooling because the situation has changed so much that, you know, who knows, they might either be forced into marriage or, you know, get into work
00:28:55
Speaker
So we might be losing 10 million girl children in the adolescent age group out of the system completely. What we have also seen is that, I mean, we know that any education system works and is influenced by the social and the cultural systems in that community. And gender comes across as one of the biggest determining factor, but there are other issues also of caste and class and everything else.
00:29:19
Speaker
What we're also seeing is of course the digital divide and we have seen even in the UK, which is one of the richest countries in the world, there have been so many concerns about children not having access to laptops and therefore not getting the benefit of online education.
00:29:37
Speaker
can even begin to imagine what is it in the kind of countries we work where such high levels of poverty and low access to technology. I once witnessed a discussion of teachers which we are having online where a teacher from Tamil Nadu, and my dear Tamil Nadu is one of the
00:29:55
Speaker
best governed districts, best administered one of the most, you know, has got a very high proportion of educated people. And then we had this teacher and she was very candid and I applaud her for being so candid. She said that before the pandemic, I didn't want to do anything with technology, you know, I just didn't want to come anywhere in the computer because
00:30:13
Speaker
I just felt I don't need it. So even when my children used to ask me, I would say, I don't need it. I'm fine. I've come thus far in my life without using technology or computer. Now, the pandemic has actually forced me to embrace technology. And I've started learning about it. And I'm now loving it. And I'm now using it so I don't have to depend on anybody. And that, for her, even though she didn't use the words, what I was hearing is that it was a very liberating and a very empowering experience.
00:30:41
Speaker
The pandemic has taught us that even at the individual level, we can look for those insights and see how can we really recapture some of the lost time, how can we bridge the digital divide in innovative ways, in enjoyable ways, and how can, therefore, that love for lifelong learning come to salvage us so
00:31:06
Speaker
through lifelong learning we expect people to have a bit of a growth mindset and we would like to encourage people to think about their potential that nothing is a done deal if you're interested in something and if you were to apply your mind to it and if you're really keen if you're really keen to learn you know it will happen it might take a bit of an effort but and that teacher she demonstrated the power of that happening and was a
00:31:28
Speaker
It was a light bulb moment for her. For me, it was seeing somebody who feels empowered and liberated. That's what we need to come out with. We need to actually then try and understand what those barriers are because we cannot afford to be in a situation where 260 million children cannot come back. The other question is that of financing as well. Of course, we don't work on financing. That's a policy issue. But I'm very conscious of the fact that in a sector where 97% of the funds come from national governments,
00:31:55
Speaker
In a situation post-pandemic where governments are trying to rebuild economies, chances are that some of the social sector spending are likely to be cut. So for example, in the UK, we see that the government has cut or intends to cut its spending on international aid. The government had committed to 0.7% of gross national income. It's now proposed to be down to 0.5%. Yes, what a shame.
00:32:22
Speaker
It is. And if that can happen in a rich country, in an OECD country like the UK, again, no prices for guessing that in some of the other countries that have less resources and are really struggling to get the economies back on track, chances are that public education sector or the public health sector will be the first ones to get the cut.
00:32:46
Speaker
and with the priority going either for some infrastructure projects or to fill the gap in the National Exchequer. That's a big worry for me and that's a big worry for us as we look at the education system because we fundamentally believe in the power of the public education systems to get to the nook and corner of the countries because that's where public education systems reach where no others reach. So we really want the system to thrive
00:33:15
Speaker
we always talk about now, I mean, we often talk about build back better, you know, that's a big phrase, the catchphrase that is coming. I'm not quite sure whether we should say build back better or build forward better, because for me, it's all about looking ahead. But the build back, whether the 3D's probably work better as an alliteration. So we understand what we're talking about. If we are really building back better, then we should be prioritizing education because
00:33:39
Speaker
A year has been lost. A year of human capital has been lost. A year of learning has been lost. And we are talking of 1.6 billion children who have been out of schools. If there's one thing that the governments should be doing, in addition to, of course, making sure that they prepare themselves and their health systems better to deal with the pandemic,
00:33:58
Speaker
The other big thing they need to do is to invest in education so that we recoup that lost time. We have to doubly accelerate the progress towards achieving that inclusive and quality education for all. We cannot be in a situation where we have 260 million children who never get to school.
00:34:16
Speaker
If children don't get to school, we know it's going to have a huge impact on economic development, on gender inequalities, on safety, on climate change, you name it, the economy will suffer. So I think that's really important for us as a civil society sector to work in partnership with the governments to see how we can try and mitigate the damage caused by the pandemic
00:34:43
Speaker
Yes, I am on the board of an organization called Book Aid International and they provide books to disadvantaged communities, displaced communities across Africa and other nations. And we always talk about at Book Aid that we are looking to reach those furthest from the book.
00:35:02
Speaker
So really focusing on library development and capacity building in those public education systems that you talked about that are reaching those who cannot be otherwise reached. And sometimes in the West, the whole digital divide and those without digital devices, it's easy to forget about the real importance of having books and having education systems that these children can access.
00:35:27
Speaker
Absolutely. First of all, I'm delighted to hear about Book Aid and in terms of reaching out to children without access, we have found the situation in Uganda where with technology penetration not being as high, it's been a challenge for us to reach out to the teachers or even to the officials in some cases. So you can well imagine what a challenge it's going to be to reach out to the children. So yeah, just like to applaud the work of Book Aid on that.
00:35:50
Speaker
Yeah, they're a great organization and I'm delighted to be involved. Givish, I know you have big ambitions at STER Education and that you're looking to reach 30 million children by 2025 and I certainly think there are huge opportunities to scale with your model given the leverage and given that your interventions cost, I understand, an average of 50 cents per child. So tell us about your future plans.
Expansion and Future Goals of STIR Education
00:36:14
Speaker
It is very exciting indeed. So the 30 million children is our target for India because we are hoping to move to a few other states in the country to replicate and build on what we have learned from the three states. But globally, our aim is to reach out to 60 million children. So, you know, half of them would be in India just because of the size and the density of population.
00:36:35
Speaker
We are currently in the process of setting up our programs in Indonesia and Ethiopia. So that will be countries number three and four respectively. We are fairly close to agreeing with the government because again, it's not just about registering ourselves as a geo to work in that country. The signing up with the government is about the nature of the partnership so that the partnership is from day one, which we think is absolutely critical for us to do anything on a sustainable basis. So from a sustainability perspective,
00:37:05
Speaker
From an ownership perspective, it's absolutely critical. We do spend time on making sure that we understand. Currently, with the government in Indonesia, for example, we are talking about which districts we can work in and what are the departments with whom we can work with, and likewise similar discussions in Ethiopia. Very, very encouraging and very exciting.
00:37:26
Speaker
Next, we are thinking of Brazil and Egypt as two other countries. So by 2025, 60 million children across six countries is what we are aiming for. So obviously from 200,000 teachers, we might go to five times the size in terms of number of teachers.
00:37:44
Speaker
but we let work with the districts to find out what's the best model to work in this country. So that's very exciting. The twin excitement is about sustainability in terms of how we do that in a manner that even when we come out of a geography, some of the work that we have done or all the work that we have done now remains embedded within the system and it grows as part of that particular system and then moving into new geographies. What we are also hopeful
00:38:09
Speaker
And we'll be working on that as what we refer to a form of amplification to say that we don't want to be a large organization and we don't want to be all over the place. But if we have a large program in India, for instance, how could the state governments in India look at supporting programs in some of the neighboring countries who might be interested, for instance, or likewise in Indonesia or Brazil? So if you have a program in Brazil or if you have a program in Uganda and Ethiopia, how can we work with
00:38:38
Speaker
other countries in the region and how can we amplify that model rather than we actually going there because starting a new program is more time consuming and expensive. So we often pride about the fact that we are a lean organization, our costs are very tight. So we're looking at ways in which we can plant
00:38:58
Speaker
the stirred approach in a very intensive manner in a handful of countries and then work in other ways to amplify that and take that experience and take that learning through various other forms of innovative and creative partnerships to other parts of the world which would be willing to consider these.
00:39:18
Speaker
It's so fascinating to hear about all of the amazing work. I mean, education is something that's really close to my heart. And I was very pleased to hear about the example you gave there about the teacher in Tamil Nadu, because Tamil Nadu is my home state. I'm from Chennai, so very pleased to hear about that. But before I let you go, I'd like to hear a bit more about your personal background and your motivations. What led you to this line of work? That's a long story, Divya, but I'll try to be very succinct.
00:39:48
Speaker
I was born in Kerala in India, but I grew up in Gujarat in Western India in the city of Ahmedabad. Came from a family of modest means, went into a great school because the one thing that my father always insisted was great education. That's really important. So the love for education was instilled very early on. And as a family, we had a nice, loving, caring family.
00:40:12
Speaker
I did my Masters in Rural Management from what's called the Institute of Rural Management. As an urban boy who had grown up in a city, that was my foray into rural India. That was an amazing part of India that I had never known, but that was three-fourths of the country. That's how I started working in the NGO sector. I started working with an organization called the Aga Khan Rural Support Program.
00:40:39
Speaker
Working with local communities to build their livelihoods in a situation where drought was a very common feature and therefore leading to loss of income and indebtedness. So I started that way back in 1985.
00:40:53
Speaker
And then I worked with ActionAid in India. ActionAid is an international organization, which is into poverty and injustice. I worked with ActionAid for 10 years in India, in different parts of the country, in Tamil Nadu, in Delhi, in Madhya Pradesh, and then moved to Plan International, working on child rights. So there's been a kind of a golden thread throughout my career, soon after that, which is all around poverty, injustice, and rights.
00:41:20
Speaker
After plan, I joined DFID, the Department for International Development, which sadly doesn't exist now because it's been subsumed into the foreign Commonwealth and Development Office. But if it was independent those days, I was a social development advisor. And I was also the point person for child rights and disability. And that was still 2005. And in 2005, I moved to the UK. I joined Wateraid, which is an international organization working on water, sanitation and hygiene.
00:41:48
Speaker
I was responsible for our work across South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa, so that took me to a completely different sector where the issues remained the same. It was about poverty, inequality, injustice, and rights. And here I am now. For the first time in my life, I am in an organization that is wholly devoted to education, something that I've been deeply, deeply, deeply passionate about because I did a lot of work on education while at ActionAid.
00:42:12
Speaker
and with plan and even water rate where we had a massive program on school water and sanitation. So I'm really pleased to be firmly here. So for the last 15 years, 16 years now, I've been in the UK and it's been a tremendous three and a half decades of fascinating work that I really enjoyed and learned and grown.
00:42:33
Speaker
Wow, what a career journey you have had. So Girish, looking back at your own leadership journey, what advice would you give to yourself on day one of first becoming a CEO?
Leadership and Reflective Insights
00:42:45
Speaker
That's a really, really important question, Divya. So let me think about it a little carefully. I suppose the very first advice I would give anybody is to listen and learn.
00:42:57
Speaker
The title Chief Executive can cause people to think about themselves very differently just because you've earned the title. And even if you've quite earned the title, it's still important to remember that you're still one person within the organization.
00:43:13
Speaker
and you need to reflect a lot on your leadership style. In the past, all the mistakes that I have made have always eventually been, you look back and you find out that's because you didn't listen and you didn't learn. Those two things have come up very, very strongly.
00:43:30
Speaker
The very first advice I would say is just listen and learn. When I was at World Trade, the previous chair of World Trade said something which I found quite interesting, and these are not exactly his words because I've been tweeted to suit myself because I wanted to make it memorable for me. It's to say, respect the past, live in the present, and be aspirational about the future.
00:43:52
Speaker
because the organization didn't start with the chief executive. The organization has a history, right? So unless you are able to respect the past and really acknowledge all that has happened before you came in and to recognize that you coming in as a CEO is a privilege for you. It's not a privilege for the organization, it's a privilege for you that you're coming in into this amazing body of work. So as you said right at the beginning, STIR Education is a very young organization at age old
00:44:22
Speaker
OK, I have worked for 35 years now, but I find it a massive privilege to come into an organization that has the whole learning culture so deeply embedded. It has got such deep foundations, and it's so passionate about what it does. So that's a privilege that I feel very fortunate to have walked into. So yes, the first advice is that of listen and learn.
00:44:45
Speaker
I love that Girish, that as leaders we need to respect the past, live in the present and be aspirational about the future. So Girish, in closing now, do you have any final thoughts or reflections that you would like to share? What is one thing that you'd like listeners to take away from this conversation?
00:45:04
Speaker
Well, it's been very interesting talking to you, Divya.
Unity and Solidarity in Global Challenges
00:45:06
Speaker
And every time I have any of these conversations, one is painfully aware of the fact that we live in a very polarized world. And it can be quite frustrating. It can be quite painful.
00:45:19
Speaker
It can be something that even questions our role in what we do. So the only thing I'd like the listeners to know is that there is so much more that unites us than what divides us. So how can we leverage on that positive energy
00:45:36
Speaker
How can we think about aspects of solidarity, global solidarity? Now in the UK, we saw lots of those moments of solidarity when we clapped for the NHS. I mean, without the NHS, without the frontline workers, without the key workers.
00:45:52
Speaker
We would have been in really dire straits much worse than what we are, but we had those people out there working for us and making sure that we are safe and we are secure and we are well fed and we are well looked after. That moment of solidarity is something that we should aspire to treasure and preserve.
00:46:09
Speaker
And while we have that solidarity nationally, how do we look at solidarity internationally? There's so much for us to learn, to offer, to share. And yeah, just hold hands because these are difficult times because of the multiple challenges that we face, and we don't need to go into that, but we recognize all the challenges. This is the time for ordinary people to come together in solidarity, support, learn, share, reflect,
00:46:36
Speaker
and believe in the fact that ultimately this planet belongs to us and we need to do all that we should to protect and preserve the planet, the people, the culture, the values, the beliefs, and what we stand for.
00:46:49
Speaker
Yes, and in that spirit of solidarity, Girish, this has been such a wonderful conversation.
Celebrating Education's Transformative Power
00:46:57
Speaker
Having grown up in India myself, I know how vitally important education is to improve the life chances of millions of disadvantaged children. And I'm so pleased to be able to showcase here today the brilliant work of STIR Education. I mean, thank you so much for the work that you do, and thank you for being a guest on the show.
00:47:14
Speaker
Thank you very much for this opportunity. Divya really enjoyed talking to you and good luck with all the wonderful work that you're doing and continue to inspire us with these conversations. Thank you, Girish. Thank you very much.
00:47:29
Speaker
I have always been a firm believer that education is the way out of poverty and the means by which any individual can build a better future for themselves and their family. It warms my heart to hear of the fantastic work of STIR Education, working with governments to leverage the impact of public education systems for those children who need this the most.
00:47:50
Speaker
I look forward to watching Star Education closely over the next few years as Girish weaves his leadership magic to take them to even greater heights, creating the next generation of citizens of the world who will work together in solidarity to build a better future for us all.
00:48:08
Speaker
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00:48:34
Speaker
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