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The Next Generation of Sales Professionals - a conversation with Nick Staab and Suzanne Jenkins of Elite Sales Academy
49 Plays3 months ago
Next time you are involved in a buying process you might experience a different selling approach from the salesperson.
How that new approach will look is explained in SELLING IS SERVING: which author Nick Staab describes as a Master The Art Of Selling Ethically With Confidence And Conviction.
In this first episode of The Independent Minds with two guests, Nick explains to Michael Millward what serving means in the context of selling. They explore how the ethics that customers expect sales people to adhere to are changing and what this means for sales people.
Michael also talks to Suzanne Jenkins a graduate of Nick’s Elite Sales Academy training programme.
Suzanne describes the challenges of being a solo-entrepreneur life coach and her dread of having to sell to clients were overcome by what she learnt from attending the Elite Sales Academy.
Suzanne was so inspired that she joined the Elite Sales Academy coaching team, and contributed to the book
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr.
Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform, on which you can create your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, and Google. It really does make creating content so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit the Zencastr website and use our offer code ABECEDER.
Find out more about both Michael Millward, Nick Staab, Suzanne Jenkins and the Elite Sales Academy at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencaster.
Introduction to The Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abecedah and people who think outside the box about how work works with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone. I am your host, Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abecedah.
About Zencastr Platform
00:00:28
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencaster. Zencaster is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to all the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Google, Amazon, YouTube, Music.
00:00:50
Speaker
It really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code ABACEDA. All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:19
Speaker
As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Usually, at this point, I would say today, my guest Independent Mind is. But today,
00:01:34
Speaker
For the first time, I have two guests.
Introduction of Guests: Nick Staub and Suzanne Jenkins
00:01:38
Speaker
So today, my guest independent minds with an S are Nick Staub and Suzanne Jenkins. Nick and Suzanne have co-authored a transformative new book called Elite Sales Specialists, which is set to inspire and educate the next generation of sales professionals.
00:01:59
Speaker
also perhaps some of the current generation as well. The book is a collaborative effort spearheaded by Nick and features compelling stories from 25 graduates of his Elite Sales Academy, one of which is Suzanne Jenkins.
00:02:16
Speaker
Nick is an Essex boy and Suzanne is from Surrey, counties in the United Kingdom. If you'd like to visit either the only way to make your travel plans, did you get that? The only way Essex? The only way to make your travel plans is with the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where you'll get access to trade prices on hotels, flights and all sorts of other travel related purchases.
00:02:40
Speaker
There is a link and a membership discount code in the description. Now, enough of my attempts at puns around Essex and other types of commercial things. Let's get started. Hello, Nick. Hello, Suzanne. Hello, Michael. When we started this, because this is my first attempt at and having two guests, we said, you know, there's bound to be times when people talk at the same time. We just had one of those. So I'll start again. Hello, Nick. Hello, Michael. Hello, Suzanne. Hello, Michael.
00:03:10
Speaker
There. We got it. We cracked it. We're experts. Here we go. Please, could we start by you explaining ah a little bit about what you're an expert
Suzanne Jenkins: Journey into Sales
00:03:20
Speaker
in? And if we start with Suzanne, what are you an expert in? and And why did you go on the Elite Sales Academy? Okay. Thank you, Michael. Good question. So I'm an expert in mindset coaching.
00:03:34
Speaker
And I came ah across sales when I realized that after many years of working for mental health charities, going out and working on my own, I would have to sell to people. Therefore, I would need to know how how to sell. And I ah had a terrible mindset myself around what a salesperson was.
00:04:01
Speaker
um To me, it was dodgy car salesmen, cold callers, and I didn't want to feel icky when selling. yeah i And ah I attended a free event at which Nick was presenting and showing ah his system and his sales academy. It completely resonated with me. It completely was how I wanted to sell. It was about Selling is Serving, which is the title of his very first book, actually. As I said, it just resonated with me that, yes, that was the way forward. It wasn't about that high pressure sale. It was ah about building up a good relationship with a potential client, working through a ah structure to ensure that we were both they and I were a good fit for each other.
00:05:00
Speaker
and Great. It sounds like you had a Remington moment. I did.
00:05:07
Speaker
I did. Good. And hence that's how i I met Nick. I've been a part of his academy for ah just over a year now. I'm always learning in new techniques that enhances the experience the initial experience I have with my clients. right um So thoroughly recommend it. I went from feeling really uncomfortable about the thought of sales and having to sell because effectively as a mindset coach, I'm selling myself. yes
00:05:40
Speaker
So it was you know quite difficult for me at that time. ah But now it's just, I follow the process. ah had It's very robust and it works well. Brilliant. Thank you, Suzanne. I'm wondering now, what else you can add to that, Nick? You've had Suzanne selling you really well. so What else
Nick Staub: Selling as Serving
00:06:01
Speaker
could you add? I was just going to say, I might just leave Suzanne to it here because she's done a great job of selling what we do. But yeah, for for me, I always say that selling is serving. If you've got a product or a service that can solve other people's problems, you've got to get it out there and help people. So I'm all about helping people become the best salespeople.
00:06:29
Speaker
showing them an exciting way of doing it by following a proven system whilst holding their hands and mentoring them. So it's all about, in my belief, helping people because as Zig Ziglar says, one of the best salespeople of his time, if you can help other people get what they want,
00:06:53
Speaker
you will get everything in life that you want. So give us gain. That's it. I believe if you can just go out there with the mindset to help, help, help, serve, serve, serve.
00:07:05
Speaker
you will get paid in the background and there's a lot of money and a lot of success to be made when you're elite at sales. Yes. Before we talk much more about elite sales specialists, I want to pick up on something that Suzanne said about her perception of salespeople before she got involved with the Academy.
00:07:25
Speaker
and that that salespeople were like secondhand car people and very pushy, never saying no for an answer. Yes means yes, but no means not yet type of thing. Why are salespeople, or why does some salespeople adopt that type of approach? It's almost a bullying type of approach, the never taking no for an answer. Why is that so prevalent among salespeople?
Modern vs. Traditional Sales Techniques
00:07:52
Speaker
I believe it's prevalent with unsuccessful salespeople who sell the wrong way, the old way. But the new way of selling, as I said, is by serving. But there are a lot of people out there, yes, that use the smoke and mirror techniques about pushing people, making them do things they don't want to do. And that's why salespeople have got that negative stereotype in most people's eyes. I always say that's a good thing for people like Suzanne
00:08:24
Speaker
other people that really want to serve their clients because once they can show them a new way of selling, they can actually not only sell their products but create great relationships with their clients, help their clients get even better results using their products and just get way more fulfillment from giving back.
00:08:45
Speaker
Yes. This idea that you are serving as a salesperson, so you're making it possible for people to discover the things, whether it's a service or a product, that is going to help them achieve their objectives. It then becomes exposed away. You're educating people and then you're not so much selling as facilitating a purchase. They're buying rather than you're selling.
00:09:10
Speaker
Absolutely. They start selling to themselves, the clients, when you sell the right way, because sales is really elite sales is asking questions, uncovering problems and helping paint a future for your clients with them on how their life could look if they were using your products or service to solve their problems. So if you're good at sales, you're not having to push it on someone.
00:09:40
Speaker
they end up halfway through that phone call, that Zoom meeting, that in-person event wanting to buy your product, like queuing up to do business with you. Yeah. Nice. It's very nice. and Suzanne, you've gone through this process and I'm sort of wondering what it was like before you went through the
Suzanne's Sales Transformation
00:10:01
Speaker
process. What was, what was being involved in sales like before and what is it like now?
00:10:08
Speaker
So before I went through the process, I was actually scared of picking up the phone and speaking to somebody, which meant that effectively I had an expensive hobby rather than a business.
00:10:25
Speaker
That's a good interesting way of looking at it, but it's so, yes, it makes sense that it's an expensive hobby because you're not actually making any money at it. And the key to making money is selling. You've got to make that phone call, make that contact with people. So what's it like now? It just flows. It's so much easier as having that structure, that structured approach to the conversation, whereas before I i I kind of had something vaguely, a script that I followed, but it wasn't um as robust and it wasn't as questioning and it wasn't as perhaps as open as it could have been. Whereas now, as I said, it it is so much more structured, it is so much more open. There are
00:11:14
Speaker
it Yeah, I can only say it flows and I feel confident. I feel that I know what I'm doing and I'm happy to talk to anybody. Whereas before I was, I really was scared of it, to be honest. this I think the there are probably a lot of independent professionals hearing that would so say, if they were being honest with themselves, they would say, yes, they are scared of the sales process. When you set yourself up in business to do the thing that you are really passionate about, in order to be able to do the thing you're passionate about, you have to do the things that frighten you the most, the selling process, the marketing process.
00:11:56
Speaker
they're sending out the invoices so that you can actually get paid. You shouldn't be embarrassed about charging people, sending the invoice for the things that you have delivered. The reality of life,
Sales as Business Lifeblood
00:12:08
Speaker
so of running a business that is yourself, really comes home to you when you realize, like you say, that's the selling that's important.
00:12:16
Speaker
It is. I mean, it's the lifeblood, really, of any business, isn't it? It's like heart rate the however you want to term it. But if you don't, at the end of the day, if you're not getting in any sales, you don't have a business. That's true. That is why I suppose on programs like TV programs like The Apprentice, that all the episodes, the tasks all seem to revolve around selling and buying things at lower prices, selling them at higher prices um and making money is the key to actually making a business work. I've worked in organizations where in big staff meetings the managing directors have described the salesperson as the king. If the salesperson wants something then the salesperson has to get what they have said that they want.
00:13:03
Speaker
As an HR professional, I'm saying we are all the customer of another person within the organization. If we adopt the same approach, we'll end up with a stronger organization because we're all working towards that final relationship that the organization has through that salesperson with the customer.
00:13:23
Speaker
I completely agree with you, Michael, if I could just put in that from my perspective, you know, I'm a solopreneur. So there's me, myself and I doing everything. So I really am king in my little empire. You decide where the stuff parties are held. Good stuff. Good. Mentor of the month or employer of the month every month. Yes, of course.
00:13:52
Speaker
I think sometimes when you're when you're working by yourself as a solo entrepreneur or an entrepreneur by themselves, it's nice to sometimes to sort of say, who's been my customer of the month as well? Yes. Who's been the customer that has helped me or the customer that has taught me something as a result of our interactions? Who is the person that has added something into me that I would take into the relationships that I have with other people as well?
00:14:21
Speaker
Yes, yes. you're always Every day is a school day. Very much so. Very much so. The theme of the book, Elite Sales Specialists, seems to revolve around three things. There's resilience, there's innovation and leadership. So let's look at each one of those.
Resilience in Sales
00:14:38
Speaker
Nick, tell us a little bit about why resilience is so important for an Elite to Sales Specialist. Resilience is one of the key skills because in sales it can be a bit of a numbers game.
00:14:51
Speaker
Even if you've got the right skill set, the right mindset, you are going to get some objections. You are going to get faced with some blocks and barriers, some knows. So if you're the type of person that gives up easily and you're not very resilient, then you're going to find it very hard to keep going in sales. Especially when it comes to objection handling, because on average, 60% of buyers say no.
00:15:19
Speaker
four times before they say yes. So if you can't handle that first objection, that second but third with a proven system, then you're going to find it very hard to make the money that you really want to be making and also helping the clients that you want to be helping.
00:15:34
Speaker
I suppose it's one of those sorts of things where you've had a day making phone calls, emails, all sorts of various different ways of trying to interact with us with a new customer and at its point being no, no, no all day long and you get round to like four o'clock and the resilience kicks in that says keep on going, keep on going, keep on trying. You never know.
00:15:56
Speaker
I've been at exhibitions where I've seen other stands, as we're getting towards the end of the final day, other stands are breaking them down before the end. And I'll just stand there, no, until the bell goes and the exhibition's closed.
00:16:09
Speaker
I'm going to be here trying and the person who arrives late is the person who then buys 10,000 pounds worth of, of something from you. It's, yeah, I totally get what you mean about the need to be able to take the knocks, take the disappointments and then still be able to carry on it and treat the next person that you speak to, I suppose, as if they're the first person that you've spoken to, that the most important person they're going to speak to all day,
00:16:37
Speaker
and that you're genuinely, and I think it's from my experience, being genuine with a client is very important. I've thought that salespeople were being genuine with me only to then realize that they're a bit like the salespeople that that Suzanne was talking about earlier on and you've you feel a bit bad about having bought from them. The innovation theme, what's from your perspective, Suzanne, what does what does that mean in in terms of being an elite sales professional?
Innovation in Client Relationships
00:17:10
Speaker
For me personally, it is that it its it's a new way of developing
00:17:18
Speaker
client customer relations from the get-go. so and And it's establishing up front a really good experience for both parties, yeah rather than that, you know as Nick was referring to earlier, the old way of selling.
00:17:42
Speaker
you know where you yeah I think you alluded to it as well, Michael, of almost being bullied into buying something yeah um and not having that approach. So it's innovative in that it's the relationship building and the retention because you've built up such a good relationship of future products and services down the track. so it It's just, um it's fulfilling because a lot of the people who um who are in the book have started off as individual solopreneurs, like myself, and then gone on to build bigger businesses. So to have that good start point from the inception of the business
00:18:37
Speaker
to then scaling and growing and still keeping that mindset, that ethos, that those values ah makes it a good environment, not only for the client, the business owner, but also any subsequent staff who come on board.
00:18:57
Speaker
I can understand that. It's about having a structure, I suppose, gives you the freedom to try new things and not to be restricted by what you can do so that you can then deliver something that is, I hate to use the word, it might be the wrong word to use, you can tell me, but a unique experience for each client or potential client.
00:19:21
Speaker
And actually, no, I think you're right using the word unique because for a lot of people, they would not have been sold to this way. So for many, it's their first time that they've experienced this this type of, um I keep using the word relationship because i it is a case of building up a good relationship with them. It's their first time of being treated better than before, if I can put it that way.
00:19:52
Speaker
Yes, I think you can. of Thank you. I'll step in there as well, if you don't mind, quickly to add. Yes, please. I was just going to say the way that an elite SAO specialist would sell is by making it a unique, tailored solution. So you're not selling a product to everyone. You're finding out people's problems and then taking your USPs and what you offer, but making it bespoke to solve the client's problems. And that makes every single one to one SAO,
00:20:22
Speaker
completely unique. So you you focus on solving the person's problem with whatever it is with. So you focus on solving the problem. with what you have ah within your USPs that will solve the problem. They don't need to know the vast range of things that you are capable of doing, they just need to know what it is that you do that will help them solve the problem that they're dealing with or predicting that they will have at some point in the future. Bingo, that's exactly right and it comes from asking the right questions
00:20:59
Speaker
listening and then being able to take your features and your benefits, but tie them into how their life will look when they achieve X, like they told us earlier on the phone call, when it solves the problem that's causing them to feel Y in their current situation. So it's making it a lot more personable and it's building that desire. So people will want to pull the trigger there and then and then rather than delay things because when it comes to sales, I found that it's actually 95% emotional based, 5% logic. And a lot of sales people are trying to sell on the logic, not the emotion. And that's why they're falling short.
00:21:40
Speaker
Yeah, the third part of the
Leadership in Sales
00:21:43
Speaker
themes is the leadership. And what you're actually trying to describe there is almost the leadership, the the leadership of the client or potential client to finding the solution that they need. So they get to the point where they're buying rather than being sold to. And you also mentioned asking the questions. So the questions, what type of questions should an an elite sales specialist be asking a potential client? Right. Well, we have a seven step system that we follow one to one closing because you got one to one, one to many. But for one to one, we start asking questions in section two, which is current situation. So we want to ask a variety of questions to find out that it
00:22:30
Speaker
based on what you're selling, watch see what's happening in your business, what's that like? How's that making you feel? How would you rate that on a scale of one to 10? Because a lot of people in sales, they follow these scripts, but they're just like an interrogation. What do you do for work? How much money do you make? And there's no follow on questions because pain is the driver of change that makes people move.
00:22:54
Speaker
So it's all our job to uncover the pain, not to tell them about how painful their current situation is without your product suffering with that problem, but to make them tell you about their current situation so they can feel the pain. And that's gonna amplify that emotion. So yeah, we'd start off with the current situation questions. And I like to create goals in step three with the client. So looking at,
00:23:21
Speaker
what the future will be like if they were to use our solution, how quickly they could get their results, how that would change their business, how that would change their life. If it was around making money, what's the first thing you're gonna do when you make that money? Then they could say, leave a job, go on a holiday, upgrade the car. Well, what does that look like? Okay, who are you gonna be doing that with? Have you been for a test drive in the car? Okay, what did it feel like that first time you pressed the engine You heard the engine roar up. These kind of examples. And this is what... yeahre You're describing a Jagger F type there, aren't you? Where you press the button and it's like... It could be you Michael, but other listeners might have been picturing their dream car in that moment, but that's what sounds is really asking questions and getting customers, their clients to sell to themselves.
00:24:14
Speaker
in an excellent way. Right. Sounds really good.
Universal Sales Approach
00:24:18
Speaker
Now, because we have an audience which is around the world, I'm going to say, is this a UK focused approach or will this work anywhere in the world? I believe this will work every single country. It's actually working in other countries right now. I've actually got clients over the world who are teaching my system and using my system in their businesses because the thing I love about sales is it's universal.
00:24:44
Speaker
every country sells. If you look at the property market in the UK, it's going to be different to the property market in France and the way they do business, but sales is universal in the way that we sell one to one and one to many. So with my seven step serving system, it is transferable. And the thing I love is I could actually be sitting in my office in Chelmsford in Essex right now and be selling in America with a bit of a time zone.
00:25:15
Speaker
ah Zoom and different platforms, home study programs, school community groups. And I think anyone right now, if they're selling information, they could sell anywhere in the world. And it's actually Forbes have quoted that this year, 2024, and for the next five years, the best thing to sell is information.
00:25:37
Speaker
Now, the thing I love about information, I won't go on a too much here, but a quick summary. You don't need to manufacture it. You don't need to bottle it. it's It's there. It's in your mind. And people are waking up to the fact, I find in the UK and other parts of the world that maybe that system that they were taught in school or by their parents is it a little bit broken. You know, about working hard, getting that degree, retiring at 65 and but the average pension in the UK is 247 pounds a week. Some people are realizing that that's not enough and they deserve a little bit more. So there's a lot of business owners or people in jobs right now that are looking for side hustles, looking for other streams of income. So yeah, property's great, trading's amazing, but I believe the best thing that anyone could sell is what they already know because
00:26:35
Speaker
I guarantee, yeah, every single listener here has got a passion. They've got a skill set. They've been through an experience and other people would exchange their time, their money and their energy to learn it from them. But you just got to learn how to package this stuff, how to sell it online one to one, one to many. That's one of the things that I like to help my clients do is take their passions and turn that into profit.
00:27:02
Speaker
Because when you do something you're passionate about, as Richard Branson says, you'll never work a day in your life. That is true. That is true. Yes. Yeah. It sounds like something that I need to investigate more, this elite sales specialist approach.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:27:17
Speaker
And I am very grateful, Nick and Suzanne, for you.
00:27:22
Speaker
sharing your experiences and telling me more about the book, The Elite Sales Specialist. Thank you very much. Thank you so much, Michael. It's been brilliant. Thank you. like Thank you, Michael. Thank you very much, Suzanne. I really have to say also, thank you for being my first episode of The Independent Minds with two guests. It's have been a very interesting learning experience. So thank you very much for that as well.
00:27:51
Speaker
I am Michael Millward, the managing director of Abecedah, and I have been having a conversation with the independent minds, Nick Staub and Suzanne Jenkins, the authors of Elite Sales Specialists. You can find out more about all three of us at abecedah.co.uk. There's a link in the description.
00:28:12
Speaker
The description also includes links to various web shops where you can buy elite sales specialists. If you're listening to the independent minds on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data. So listening on 3 means you can wave goodbye to buffering.
00:28:31
Speaker
There's a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from three and the special offers available when you quote my referral code. That description is well worth reading. If you have liked this episode of The Independent Minds, please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe.
00:28:58
Speaker
And remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abocida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. All that remains for me to say is until the next episode of The Independent Minds. Thank you for listening and goodbye.