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TSP Ep 120 Part 1: Follow-up Interview of Filmmaker Josh Ampuero
33 Plays8 months ago
In this first half, Tom and Steve have Josh back on to discuss how to manage filmmaking with a family and about writing genre regardless of ease.
So come along with us as we learn a thing or two!
If you'd like to discover more from Josh you can find his Youtube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/@JoshMakesMovies1/featured
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Transcript
Opening with Whiskey and Introductions
00:00:00
Speaker
Ooh, that's a good, that's that old forester. Oh, so good.
00:00:04
Speaker
I've been, that's like been my go-to lately. That root beer kicks, but that Forrester. Cause it's a nice proof. It's not like an 80 proof or a low proof 86. It's a little bit stronger than standard whiskey. Yeah. And you take a sip and let me know what you think of it. Well, I've had it before, right? Oh yeah, we've had that bottle before.
00:00:33
Speaker
Cause it's like 20 bucks. It's like, sorry, maybe, maybe I have a problem. It's been a while since I've drank. So, you know, welcome to hell. All
Introducing the Hosts and Guest
00:00:49
Speaker
right. Uh, we're doing the podcast. So I guess I'll get this intro kicked off. It's going to be kind of a more of a laid back and impromptu episode cause uh, got a special guest here.
00:01:03
Speaker
Got some woes. Woes. And some hoes. All right. And some hoes. Welcome, everyone. This is Twin Shadows Podcast, a podcast about film, filmmakers, and filmmaking. You're joined, as always, by your two co-hosts, Tom and Steve, and today's special guest, Mr. Josh. And Josh, how you doing? I'm doing good. Do you like Josh or Joshua? I like Josh.
00:01:32
Speaker
Is it Joshua though? It is Joshua, but only my wife calls you that when she's mad. So every single day.
00:01:39
Speaker
And this isn't your first time on the show. This is your second time. And Joshua will probably be a more reoccurring guest. Yeah, if you like us. He's our local filmmaking buddy. We're trying to build that community around us, around up
Josh's Day and Filmmaking Balance
00:01:58
Speaker
here. Desert rat filmmakers. Desert rats. And see what we can do with that. But how's everybody doing? How you doing, buddy?
00:02:08
Speaker
I just got off work, so I think I'm still coming down a little bit. I was rushing last minute to get out on time and spilled photo chemicals all over myself, but I'm good. Yeah, I'm good. Is that what that stain is? But it was something else. Well, that stain is when I saw you in the room. That was the first stain.
00:02:31
Speaker
Mighty stain indeed. How you been though, buddy? Been okay. You got a mustache coming in. Your hair's a bit wild. You look like an off-duty cop, honestly. I thought I was a little Henry Cavillish myself. Henry Cavill, that's how you saw yourself, huh? Yeah, I see it, man. I see it if I have one of those slimming mirrors, you know. Got a couple shots. Some steroid usage, maybe. Like Mission Impossible, Henry Cavill.
00:03:02
Speaker
And we also have a secret guest. Click the little, little Zoey. If you hear it, that's going to be Zoey walking around. Yeah. She's chilling with us today. But Josh, how are you? I'm good. I've just been, you know, working and trying to make movies and trying to be a good dad. I got three beautiful kids. So, you know, it's never a dull moment. Hashtag blessed. That's right. We're filmmaking. Daddy's. Yeah. Finally, all three of us are daddy filmmaking. Daddy's. That's enough. I can't imagine three or two. Yeah.
00:03:31
Speaker
He's like, damn, man, I ain't got no time with just the one. Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine it. It doesn't get easier. I don't think either. But speaking of, since you're a dad, because we were talking through text.
00:03:44
Speaker
And it was kind of inspiring. I always get inspired by over the weekend, we were just chit chatting and then you like around midnight or something, you told me you had to go and edit and you said bye. So I mean, that's always cool, like knowing people working and doing that grind, making that sacrifice.
00:04:02
Speaker
Is that normally when the only time you get to work with the kids is that late at night and then how late do you go? Yeah. Um, uh, yeah, that's about when I, uh, I get to work on stuff. Um,
00:04:17
Speaker
It's not, no, it's usually not at midnight. You know, after the kids, the kids knock out, thankfully my wife and I have been pretty good at getting them on a schedule. So usually all three kids are knocked out before nine o'clock, usually by eight 30. Yeah. So, you know, I'll spend an hour, hour and a half with the wife. We're watching, right now we're watching Yellowstone. I've never seen, I've never seen the show before. I heard it was pretty good. My mom loves it. And it's by one of my favorite film writers. He did, um, Sicario. What's his name?
00:04:44
Speaker
Taylor Sheridan. Taylor Sheridan. Yeah. Yeah. I, I loved, I loved Wind River. I thought Wind River was a phenomenal movie. I think, I thought it was probably my favorite, my favorite movie that when whatever year it came out in and I, I thought Sicario was phenomenal as well.
00:05:00
Speaker
Then you would probably like the one he did with Chris Pine. Yeah, Hell or High Water. Hell or High Water. Have you seen that one? I have. It's been a while. That one I liked a lot. I think that's his masterpiece. No, I think Sicario.
Visual Storytelling and Editing Routine
00:05:12
Speaker
But Sicario was Denis Villeneuve. Taylor Sheridan only wrote it. Yeah. What, did Taylor Sheridan direct the others? He directed Wind River. I don't think he directed Hell or High Water though. No, I don't think so. I don't think he just wrote it. He directed Wind River though. Oh, okay.
00:05:26
Speaker
But yeah, you know, I really want to watch it again. It's been a long time since I've seen it. I enjoyed it, but I didn't like it as much as like the other his other movies that are that we just mentioned. Yeah, I think that was my favorite, but also.
00:05:41
Speaker
I just really love the actors in that, Hal or Highwater. Cause you got Jeff Bridges, Chris Pine and Ben Forrester or Foster, Ben Foster, who he doesn't get enough work, he's so great. Yeah, he did not direct that one by the way. He did not, Hal or Highwater wasn't directed by him. Yeah, I didn't think so. But yeah, that's probably, but I mean like his writing voice is so strong. It really just comes through.
00:06:07
Speaker
in the work, you know? Maybe not so much Sicario, but that's Denis Villeneuve. No, I think it does come through. Because it's his words. To go off on the tangent. He did an NPR interview. It was really interesting. It kind of got a little blown out of proportion, but essentially he said he's not
00:06:30
Speaker
He doesn't see dialogue as one of the most important aspects of film. He sees film as a visual media. And he went on to say that one of his dream films would to actually just do a silent film and keep the audience completely entertained with strictly a silent film and kind of leave dialogue in the background. And recently I saw Dune and I actually paid attention to it.
00:06:56
Speaker
And the dialogue is pretty sparse and also it's a bit like Nolan. It's pretty like one dimensional and just clear like what the intention is and what's happening.
00:07:09
Speaker
which I was surprised with. So what's your take on that with like, how important do you feel? Cause like with your shorts, it seems like dialogue is pretty damn important. So what's your take on that? Like, I mean, obviously, you know, each their own, but you know, how do you feel as a director? Teach their own for sure.
00:07:26
Speaker
Um, I think it's a really good question, but let me, let me first, let me finish answering your previous question is I do like, I usually try to get them in bed by eight 30. No, it's okay. Um, I watched, you know, I'll stay with the wife. We'll watch something for like an hour, hour and a half. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to go edit now. And you know, and then I, I, it's usually only like two or three hours. There's nothing crazy, but like I've been working on this short, the short that you guys helped me with.
00:07:53
Speaker
I've been working on this, um, for like the last week, trying to dedicate a good few hours to it every single night, um, because I'm trying to get it out by a certain day, you know, we can talk about that later. Um, but, uh, but now moving on. So, so that's, so that's really how I have to do it. I'm a dad, I work and I'm, I'm dead in the morning and afternoon and then at night when they're asleep, you know, dedicate some time to the, to the film dream. And,
00:08:19
Speaker
It just it just it doesn't see it doesn't feel like a chore because it's like this is what I want to do. You know, I want to be a filmmaker. I want to I want to get paid to make movies. So, you know, I'm just going through the motions right now until I get to that point where I can get paid to do it. So how much time do you dedicate in an editing session?
00:08:42
Speaker
Like it's about two or three hours. Two or three hours every night? Not every night, not every night. I try to do it every night. Yeah. Some nights I do pass out next to the kids, you know, so that doesn't happen. But, you know, and like for this, for this film, because I'm trying to release it by a certain date, I've been spending a lot more time.
00:08:59
Speaker
I've been pushing myself to do three, four hours maybe. Probably tonight I'm going to have to stay up after I'm done with you guys. I'm probably going to have to stay up all night probably. So just pound a monster. Question about that. Do you find that having a deadline helps in motivating you to get it done or is it more daunting?
00:09:22
Speaker
Um, I do, I do think that I do think having a deadline helps, but I also, it's funny that you ask, I was just thinking about the, that, you know, for us, um, for the, in the, in the indie world, it's like, I think it's good to have deadlines, like individually, like for our own work and for, you know, our own stuff that we're doing, but it's when, when we're getting to a point of.
00:09:52
Speaker
you know, when we're working with other people and those other people and no one is paying anyone, we're all doing it for free. But those other people are expecting you to do your work by a certain time. It's like, why?
00:10:07
Speaker
Like for what? Do you report to a studio boss? No. Is the audience waiting for our original IP that no one's ever heard about to watch, to consume our content? No one gives a fuck. No one cares. So it's like, it just gets a little funny to me when deadlines are tried to put in place by other people who aren't paying you or even like,
00:10:36
Speaker
Um, some, there's, there's been times, you know, I got paid to do, to, to help someone with something once. Um, but you know, I got paid for to do the work, not by not to do the work by a certain date. The exchange was, this is how much you're going to get paid for this work. So I did it. I started doing it.
00:10:55
Speaker
And then, you know, and then I start getting hit up being like, Hey, why haven't I heard from you? I haven't heard anything. Am I going to just have to go to someone else? And I'm like, dude, the fuck, like go, go, go get someone else. I don't give a fuck. I already got paid. You know, I'm, I'm doing the work for you. You know, but it's like, we never agreed on, Hey, it has to be done by a specific date or anything. You know, it's like, you know,
00:11:18
Speaker
back up a little bit, dude. So to answer your question, though, I do think you need to set deadlines for yourself in certain things. And I do think it does help you work harder. I don't think it's very daunting to me because I've worked so many times under pressure in different jobs in my own business. But
Post-Production and Project Prioritization
00:11:41
Speaker
But if you miss the deadline, you know, don't beat yourself up about it, you know, keep keep keep trying, keep going. But like for this one specifically, you know, I think it's a little bit different because I'm trying to release the film by a certain date in order to you know, and again, we can talk about that. But yeah, there is there is pros and cons to doing that. But yes, definitely set deadlines for yourself.
00:12:07
Speaker
Um, so to get back into a question that I had or to I don't know if I answered your question correctly. You did. And I want to piggyback off of that a little bit as well, because you had talked about how, um, uh, you know, like a lot of people are volunteering their time and, you know, they have expectations and stuff like that. But at the same time, the benefit, there's a benefit. There's like the pros and cons, right? You're like measuring the,
00:12:32
Speaker
the weight of everything. The pro is that you have the time to get things done right. And also, it's like a lot of us aren't like professional editors like editing every day. So it's like we kind of have to learn how to get things right and to do things. But at the same time, I've been thinking about this, too, because our project has probably stretched on like
00:12:53
Speaker
probably into a degree where it will do like no favors for the actors because they're all going to be like gray haired and dead by the time it comes out. So like, you know, even if they, if they're, if people want to work with them, it's like, they're going to look and act completely different now because they're, you know, 10 years older or whatever. Yeah. So that does no benefit to them in a sense. And that's kind of what's weighing on me a little bit when I was, when that thought popped into my head. But at the same time, it's like, well,
00:13:23
Speaker
We're going to deliver something that at least hopefully they'll be proud of. Exactly. That they were in and just and then hopefully it could have some net benefit. But yeah, I mean, that's something I think about, too, because it's like deadlines are extremely important. But at the same time, learning how to do everything and getting it right is probably equally as important. What do you think, buddy? Well, yeah, I mean,
00:13:54
Speaker
Not that our cast has gray hair. You know, cause when I think about our film, I also think about David Lynch a lot, right? With his first film or eraser head, right? That took eight years. I want to say probably longer than that.
00:14:08
Speaker
And, uh, it was also your post-production. No, it was, well, it had, they ran out of money and they didn't shoot for like four years. And then they had, and then they brought everyone back and they had to do wigs and weird haircuts. And cause the main character has an eraser head, like haircut. And so it's like, we grew in a finish this movie, but we need to get the funds to do so kind of thing. So there was like a three or four year gap in between finishing the film.
00:14:38
Speaker
Okay, well, I guess that's quite different from us, but I always think of that, you know, and I guess the artist's discretion of getting the work out when it's ready. Because, you know, David Lynch took eight plus years to get out a razor head and the rest is history.
00:14:57
Speaker
I haven't seen that film, but I'm gonna guess it's a little better than Dickhead. A lot different, that's for sure. So there's that element of...
00:15:09
Speaker
you know, we took a long time to get this done. We had deadlines originally that we did meet. But when it came to post, it was like, well, now we have infinite amount of time. And we've taken advantage of that. And certainly I was thinking about how long it's taken to, because I was watching it the other day and I was like, shit, we took this long. And because I just kind of saw the film a little bit more,
00:15:34
Speaker
unbiased away from my own bias. And it was like, oh, that's that's rough. And like, oh, yeah, that that does feel pretty bad. But I think.
00:15:47
Speaker
you know, that's where it takes some of the bravery where you just have to be like, well, this is a film and it needs to take this amount of time for it to be done right. You know, and I think that's a, I think you just got a hold to it, right? Yeah. Like if you're the master of the ship, you got a hold to that belief in your work and what you're doing. And then just pray that, you know, you weren't, well, what's his name?
00:16:15
Speaker
Christopher Columbus, right? You know, you pray that you actually hit the States and you didn't go to India or something like that. Well, I will also say into our defense on that is that we've, Dickhead was always kind of like our film education. Yeah. And it has been in so many ways, even in post where we've had so many editing, especially in post and just working and like,
00:16:41
Speaker
like how to work with freelancers and things like that, like learning some very hard lessons. I was talking with Josh about that earlier. If you're familiar with the podcast at all, you've heard us bitch about editors more than so many times. And I think that it's an invaluable lesson to learn how to do as much as you can on your own and push it as far as you can. And luckily and the hope is that once
00:17:09
Speaker
we finished with this project, the future projects will only reap those rewards. We'll have learned from our failures and grown from that. So, and to bring it back to Josh and Steven, it's not just me and Steven today, Josh is here too. You have a short that you just released. Well, before we get into that, can I follow up with one closing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you've had a few shorts you haven't,
00:17:37
Speaker
Finished, right? Yeah, more than a few, yeah. I've got films that are 10 years old, they're still sitting in my computer that haven't finished. Yeah, for me, I definitely had some old projects and in my head, they're not gonna be, I'm not moving on until they're done.
00:17:53
Speaker
moving on in what way? Like no more projects until those projects have finished. Oh, okay, yeah, no, I don't suffer from that at all. Yeah, so I was gonna ask you, so then, so, you know, cause obviously you reach a time point where it's like, I'm gonna let go of this. Yeah. So how does that work for you? Like how do you let go? When I prioritize one over the next. Yeah, like how do you let go? Is that difficult to let go? When do you let go? What's that kind of process? That's an interesting question. I don't, I mean, it really, it's, I don't really know how,
00:18:22
Speaker
It's there's so many, there's so many different aspects to that. It's a really good question, but, um, I think first of all, it's just, um,
00:18:31
Speaker
It's probably undiagnosed, but I'm pretty sure I have ADHD or something like that, you know, because I can't stop, you know, I don't stop moving. So I don't stop creating. I don't start thinking about ideas. So, you know, I get, I get all these ideas and it's not just the films. I like, yeah, I have a ton of movies that I haven't finished. I have way more scripts that are done. Short film scripts that are done. Short film scripts that are started that I haven't finished.
00:18:56
Speaker
feature-length scripts that are, you know, different in different stages of writing. So it's like. I there are certain ideas that I like, I write them down and I'm like, I want to film this right now. Like, this is such a good idea. I think it's hilarious. Some of it has to do with like content, you know, what like. So the last film I just made, which we could, if you want to talk about that or.
00:19:20
Speaker
We'll, we'll talk about it, but I, I filmed it in like at the end of 2021 and we're working on, huh? No, the one note, the one that I just released the one with who Wes and, and my brush shape and a haircut. Yeah. So, um, I, and, and I had come up with it.
00:19:39
Speaker
Like I think at the beginning of 2021, I had come up with the concept of these two guys sitting on the couch and both of the actors had long hair. Well, Wes, Wes has had long hair for a long time. But my, my friend, my other friend who played the second guy doesn't always have long hair. He just had it cause it had been cause COVID had just, you know, we'd just let it all grow up. Right.
00:20:01
Speaker
So I thought it was a funny concept for these two guys where the world was going back to normal after COVID, right? But these two guys were still slackers. They still had long hair. They still, you know, and so they started making fun of me, the person who's going off to a job interview.
00:20:16
Speaker
um, this first job interview after COVID, but you know, it took so long to finish it that now I released in 2024. Nobody remembers, like, thank God we didn't mention COVID in the short, you know, like there was no mention of COVID at all. But like that was in my head, that was the, the,
00:20:33
Speaker
The setting of the short was the end of 2021. Everything's going back to normal, but these two idiots, you know, are still are still in in stay at home. They're still in quarantine mode. They still want to stay at home, be lazy as is because that's what people were able to unleash when we're supposed to be quarantining is they're lazy. Their lazy side was able to take over, you know. So but yeah, so
00:20:59
Speaker
But to answer your question, how do I prioritize or what have you, I filmed that at the end of 2021, then we started Red Sands in 2022, or right at the same time, I think, at the end of 2021, something like that.
00:21:15
Speaker
It was, the Red Sands was a big, it was basically a feature film. This is what we filmed. And so it was a lot of time. I was the visual effects artist for the entire season. So I was working on visual effects all the time. I wrote,
00:21:34
Speaker
and co-wrote the first episode and I directed most of the first episode, so I had responsibilities that I had to do there. I was one of the executive producers, so I helped edit the first episode as well.
00:21:51
Speaker
all that stuff takes time. That's time that I have this short that's finished. I finished filming it, but I can't work on it because I need to focus on this series. We have, you know, professional actors that are working with us. TJ whims, uh, Carlos, Carlos Campos, who are he credit Carlos e Campos is how, how, how he credits how they credit him. Um, this guy was his been on, uh,
00:22:17
Speaker
uh, Westworld is that speaking rules on Westworld on agents of shield on Lucifer, like legit shows. And he came and played the villain on our show. So it's like, we're working with those types of people. Like this, this show needs to be priority, you know, like fuck my little fucking four minute movie. Yeah. It's funny how great, great, awesome. But you know, that, that, that shit takes a backseat and yeah, you know, maybe
00:22:44
Speaker
It's not totally respectful to the actors that were involved in that little short, but you have to make a decision if you've already taken the step of working on multiple things at the same time, which I have since 2007.
00:23:02
Speaker
You have to make a decision and it wasn't hard. It wasn't hard for me. It wasn't a hard decision to make to prioritize one project over another. And really, you know, I've never really had an actor or a collaborator complain about about it, you know, in terms of like, hey, they'll ask me, like, where is this film or where's that film? I'm working on it, man. I got five other things that I'm doing, but I'm working on it. You know, so.
00:23:28
Speaker
I think most people understand, especially if they're actors or fellow creatives, they understand if you're taking two, three years to finish a project, even if it's a three-minute, four-minute short film, most people know that it takes a while. And if you've been doing it for a while, I think the other good thing is I have
00:23:58
Speaker
A library of short films on my youtube channel. Josh makes movies go check it out Josh makes movies one and People can see that like if I if I if I if I go and I approach an actor that I've never worked before Worked with before I can show him or her a library of my work that speaks for itself It's very professional. It's what you know, the the it's well edited and
00:24:27
Speaker
And so they know that at the very least it's going to be at the same caliber as this stuff that I've already done. So if it takes two to three years to finish it, who cares because the end product is going to be good. You know, they can, they can, they can, they have some, a little bit of a guarantee that the end product is going to be good. So yeah, you know, um, there's lots of things that go into decisions over, you know, prioritizing one over the other, but yeah, like, um,
00:24:56
Speaker
the type of content that it is, if you all of a sudden get an opportunity to work on a big show, like on a show that I co-created, obviously that took a big priority. But yeah, it's funny, the whole COVID thing, again,
00:25:14
Speaker
It's not the first time that it's happened. Like I get these really funny ideas based on a current event and I'll film it, but then it takes me like three years to edit. So nobody remembers. Oh, yeah. That thing happened like three years ago, you know. Yeah. So.
00:25:29
Speaker
You know, but at the end of the day, it's like, who, who really gives a fuck? Like I've got 100 people that watch my, my videos. Like when it comes out, I get a hundred views. That's it. You know, like, and then the next one comes out, then people go back and watch other stuff. So it's like, it's not even that I'm not even reaching that big of an audience yet. You know, maybe one day when I'm.
00:25:47
Speaker
when I'm there or when I have more money and I can make things, you know, maybe I can hire an editor or whatever to make these things come out faster, it'll happen. But I honestly, it doesn't bother me. It doesn't faze me. I'm not too concerned about it. And I think most of my collaborators understand.
00:26:04
Speaker
So when I was listening to you talk, it sounded or the way I interpret it was a sense of momentum.
Writing Comedy and Influences
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. Like one project loses momentum. Another one gains it. But then hearing you explain it in more in detail, it seems like it's just more of a logical choice. Yeah. Yeah. Either. Yeah. Either or a mix of both, you know, and some some projects, you know, there's some projects that I that I film that
00:26:33
Speaker
end up being like a two minute short film. And I'm like, wow, like, um, this is a really easy, like there's a short film on my, on my channel that, um, I don't know if you guys have seen it. It's like a minute and 15 seconds. It was a chase scene that we filmed up and my old, uh, college at UC Riverside. And it's just one guy chasing another guy through campus for one minute and a half. And then there's a punch line at the end and that's it.
00:26:54
Speaker
When we when we were filming it, you know, I had five other projects that I was working on, but I'm like, this is a minute, this is going to be a minute and a half. You know, I'm I'll put those other projects aside for one month and focus on this. And I got and I released that one, you know, very quickly after we filmed it because it was so easy and so simple to do. So simplicity, you know, that could play into it. You know, yeah, it's just it's just.
00:27:18
Speaker
However, I'm feeling sometimes, you know, sometimes I'm tired of looking at the same short for five months. I just want to do something else. I don't know. It's ADHD. It's that brain. So then with your films to hook an audience, because Tom and I have always talked about this, like getting an audience to want to watch our film. Sure. That's kind of hard to do, right? Sure. You know what it is. But I think in our respect to us, horror, horror, scary movies, that's always good to go with because
00:27:48
Speaker
You don't need named actors, you don't need a lot to hook an audience and keep them watching. And in respect to yours, you said punchline and it feels like a lot of your films are comedies. So is that...
00:28:04
Speaker
The avenue you like to take or the genre or do you just kind of always end up in comedy? Yes. Why so much why so much laughter? Well, I don't know, man. It's just that's just how that's just where I ended up. You know, like the last last time I was here, I told you guys, you know, I when I showed my first film to my class, my high school class, that the kids that the my fellow students started laughing and they were laughing at like the parts where I was trying to be funny, you know. Yeah. So
00:28:33
Speaker
um that that kind of
00:28:36
Speaker
I don't know that like the fuse sparked or whatever in my brain. I was like, wow, this is really cool. That's really awesome. That's something that I did. Something that I created and made them react that way. So, you know, and, and I, and I, ever since, even while I was in high school, I spent a lot of time around funny people, like a lot of my friend, one of my friends has been in a lot of my movies. His name is Dorian. He's an act. She's actually a standup comedian. So, and I met him in high school. So, you know, being around him, he, he was always in a group of people that were all.
00:29:06
Speaker
practicing comedy, doing comedy. So it kind of rubs off on you. You know, when you're, when you're in that mother, my other friend, Josh, who's been in, in a lot of my movies, um, he, he never did stand up comedy, but he's very quick. He's very quick witted. He's really good with that. Uh, you know, sarcasm and things like that. So
00:29:24
Speaker
we bounce off of each other really, really easily. And that's been a lifetime of friendship, you know, of just knowing each other and the conversations that we have. It's just, you know, we find moments where we can jab at each other or, or make jokes and stuff. So that kind of stuff.
00:29:41
Speaker
swims in your brain around a lot and it affects the ideas that you have. When an idea comes for a movie, I'm trying to think of like, it would be kind of funny if this happened or it'd be kind of funny if that happened or someone could say something hilarious here.
00:29:58
Speaker
Well, I got to say, because Tom and I, we think we're really funny, but no one ever laughs at our jokes. And I don't know if this has happened to you, Tom, but I've had quite a few people tell me I'm not funny. Oh, yes. Normally, it's just me and you that find us funny, buddy. That's true. But I actually, it's funny we were talking about this a little bit, because
00:30:22
Speaker
There was this Reddit post about like, why is comedy the hardest? And I wrote like a really long in depth explanation and it's like my most upvoted post that I've ever made. How many upvotes? It was like 250 or something. Nice. Which I mean, I don't know if that's a lot or not, but it was on the filmmaking subreddit and I pretty much wrote and this is like the too long didn't read. Yeah. I was like, when action doesn't work, it's funny, right? Like when you make an action movie and like the clip falls out of the gun when the guy's shooting. Yeah. That's
00:30:51
Speaker
Hilarious. That's funny. Right. When you make a horror movie and like the guy's stabbing them, but like the blood spur doesn't spur it out or makes a fart noise. Like that's that's hilarious. But when a comedy doesn't work.
00:31:05
Speaker
God, they're just like, click, I'm outta here. You just gotta eat it, right? Yeah, and it's like, you can, comedy, you can get 90% of the way there and it's a piece of shit. Like, you have to, comedy's the only genre I really think where you have to land that laugh. If you're not funny, if you are cringy, if you are, like, people just, they just nope out so fucking quick. That's why everyone bombs, right? That's why Sam Kameen's bomb all the time is because sometimes audiences aren't there. That's true, yeah. Right, like, or. That's what I like to think for myself.
00:31:34
Speaker
Right, like, I couldn't imagine being a stand-up comedy on September 12, 2001, like... Different kind of bomb, but you know, Jesus Christ. Yeah, so...
00:31:48
Speaker
And I think I feel this way and I don't know if I'm gonna deviate from this opinion, but I feel like comedy is the hardest genre to write. Absolutely. So then why do you choose this? Well, I don't know. I don't think it's hard. You just think you're that funny? I think I'm funny. I think I'm a little funny, sure. Tell me a joke. Oh man. But no, I don't think, I don't know, you know,
00:32:16
Speaker
Yeah, it can be difficult, but I think, again, just growing up in that environment of lots of funny people having funny people around me, it just influences my brain to go like to naturally seek out like,
00:32:34
Speaker
Like I'm, I'm writing a scene and I'm like, Oh, there could be a joke right here there. What, what could be the joke? I'm sorry. I started thinking about it. Like I'm already thinking about like trying to make the synapses fire to get the character to say something funny or make the situation funny in a way. So, you know, that's why I think a lot of.
00:32:51
Speaker
You know, even if I try to start writing drama or horror or something that has nothing to do with comedy, it always just naturally ends up going a comedic route. And I think I think also that that kind of gives me a like my like my voice is kind of
00:33:13
Speaker
Different like I like things I like when when you can know that when you tell someone a writer is it has a different type of voice Because you know a lot of people wouldn't normally go to the funny route on this specific Scenario and this specific scene most people wouldn't go the funny route I try to go there and I think that sets me apart from other people that are maybe writing the same type of material or doing the same type of films Because I try to find you know
00:33:41
Speaker
a way to make something funny. I don't know. I don't know. I honestly, it doesn't seem difficult to me, but I guess, you know,
00:33:50
Speaker
I do struggle with it at times when I'm in there, when I'm in the screenplay. But no, it's just like, I have these, you know, I have these fun ideas and sometimes I'll pitch them to some of my friends. I'm like, before I start writing or while I'm writing, I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? They're like, oh yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah, do that, write that, or, you know, keep going on with that idea. So, you know, I don't know. It's just, it just, that's just how my brain is wired, I guess. Is that how you get through a difficult,
00:34:19
Speaker
joke, like when, when you're setting up the premise, but you don't know the punch line, is that how you, how do you get through that? Yeah. Like, let's say you, you know, the setup, you know how you're going to make it funny, you know, where you want it to go, but you don't know how to end it on that exclamation to make it funny. Like how do you figure out that? So I do, I, so at that point I do talk to friends, you know, like the, the, the people that I've mentioned, you never ask us.
00:34:46
Speaker
That's because we're not funny, buddy. We are funny. We just established it. I will say, hold on, before you answer that question real quick, I want to interject. I think our problem, buddy, is that our style of comedy is darker than black.
00:35:01
Speaker
Right? Like we literally on the last, I don't know if you guys listened to the last episode or the two episodes ago, we literally were talking about a dead baby script about a baby dying of starvation. And we're like laughing her asses off the entire time. And we're calling the script dead baby. And it's like, no one's laughing.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, no one's laughing at that, right? Like we have gallows humor on steroids and uh, I don't know if that just comes from You know, like our dad's abandoning us We're laughing at childhood trauma, you know, like but yeah, like does that does it come from a play like did your comedy come from like a place of like
00:35:40
Speaker
of almost like therapeutic release. Like, I'm curious about that, like, to bring it back, because the reason why I thought of it is because the shorts you just released, like you said, Josh McMovie's number one, or is it just one? Josh McMovie's number one, or just the number one. Because he's the number one, so you gotta go watch. Don't worry, we're gonna watch him. Thank you.
00:36:01
Speaker
Right. It has an extremely dark twist. Yes. That plays up the comedy. Yeah. And so you can talk about it. I mean, it's already released if you want. Yeah. Well, you know, I don't want it. It's like literally a spoiler for I mean, you're like, I know you're going to say it's just a dumb four minute movie or whatever. But it's like if you want to encourage people to watch it, you want you want the most impactful scene to have an impact. Sure. If they're waiting for, you know, the the twist of that dark
00:36:28
Speaker
Sure. I get you. Okay. Like he, you know, did you laugh at the dark turn? I was just like, I'm glad he went. I don't know if I necessarily, I don't think I laughed, but I was just like, I was very appreciative because I was like, he's one of us. Okay. Good. Cause that's definitely, I think how Steve and I would have taken it too. So you're saying, where does that come from or what? Do you find that, uh,
00:36:55
Speaker
because I think we were kind of dancing around a little bit too was just like kind of sometimes taking it there because I think a comedy, I've always thought of comedy as you're dancing on the line of what's acceptable. And oftentimes you stumble and fall over what's acceptable. Like in, I would say like in your short, right? Like where it's like,
00:37:16
Speaker
They don't really give a shit. Right. And that's kind of what's funny. Right. It's like the is that Wes is the long haired, which you needed some bongs or something, dude, like they need to be like toking it up. Right. But it's like it's like, do you think it's courageous or there's a bravery aspect to going there or? Yeah, because I think part of it is like,
00:37:44
Speaker
Mike, am I gonna go to jail? Or something for having it, like, you know, making Dead Baby the movie, like... Coming soon.
00:37:55
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely think I mean, when you're doing risque stuff like that, yeah, definitely bravery has something to do with it. I mean, I don't know how brave you you would say I would I was by making that kind of joke. But I definitely I definitely for this short specifically, I was definitely in the writing phase. I was like, I don't think I've ever gone this this far before, like when I was writing it, you know, and and kind of also to answer Stephen's question, like I didn't I couldn't
00:38:25
Speaker
I have the concept of these two guys that were just clowning on the guy that was just trying to make something better and so by going on a job interview I thought that was a really funny concept but. I needed I needed more I needed you know for the for the second character who's dressed up nice you know like that took a little bit of time to figure out
Filming Process and Improv Challenges
00:38:47
Speaker
what he was dressed up for and then how they were going to react to that. And I pitched it to, like I said, a couple of my friends, mainly Josh, the guy the guy that was the other the other long hair guy who he's who I bounce most of my ideas off of. And between the two of us, we came up with, you know, the the idea of the dark twist and then how the two characters react to the to that dark twist. So, yeah, and it's funny, it's funny because so
00:39:17
Speaker
We came up with that. I wrote it right. I wrote it after that and then I called Wes. I remember I remember I called Wes because he was he was like.
00:39:26
Speaker
the only, one of the only people I know that has really long hair that could put it, that could play this part, but I didn't know if he'd be open to that kind of humor. I didn't know if he'd be open to that. So, so I was like, Hey man. And we've only, we'd only known each other at this point, like one year or something like that. So I was like, Hey man, this is the story, man. We'd already worked together, but we'd never had done this. This was the second time we were going to work together. I didn't know the kind of, you know, humor. I was like, this is what happens. This is what he says. Are you okay with that?
00:39:54
Speaker
And he's like, yeah, that's funny. Let's do it. I was like, OK, let's do it. You know, if he if he thinks it's funny, if my friend thinks it's funny, OK, you know, then then it's a little bit less off my shoulders at that point because I'm not the one that's saying it. You know, I just wrote the words. But the other but the two actors are the ones that are going to carry the performance. And, you know, so I think that helped out for sure. Well, watching your film.
00:40:17
Speaker
That one specifically, what is it? Two beers, one? Shaving a haircut. Shaving a haircut. Two beers, one cup. Two beers, one cup. Coming soon. Josh makes movies, one. But watching that film, it felt like a lot of it was ad-libbed. So what's the ratio of ad-libbed versus written?
00:40:39
Speaker
On that one specifically, it was almost entirely written. Wow. Yeah. That reminds me of Ghostbusters. Wait, right? Because Ghostbusters feels ad-lib, but then you watch and it's like entirely written. Yeah. The best, I think, well, at least if you're watching Red Letter Media or whatever, which I think that's the video you're referencing, wherever they talk about. I think it's Red Letter Media that does that video.
00:41:02
Speaker
on Ghostbusters. Because you were telling me, you told me. Yeah, I think it's a Red Letter Media video. Or maybe it's Cinemassacre where there is no ad-libbing in Ghostbusters. And the best comedy writing feels like it's ad-libbed because it comes so naturally. And to write natural comedy is, I think, very difficult. And also, one thing I wanted to ask you, Josh, since you do a lot of comedic skits,
00:41:31
Speaker
How different is it when you feel it on the day versus when you're watching it on screen? Have you ever gone, this is something I was thinking about too, where it's like, when you're like on set, you guys are like, it's like there's like a feeling on set where you're like busting up laughing, but that doesn't necessarily translate when you're watching it later.
00:41:51
Speaker
And do you feel that? How do you overcome that? And am I just full of shit? You know, I don't I can't think right now. I'm sure it's happened. You know, I'm sure it's happened where, you know, on set it feels one way and then.
00:42:10
Speaker
Uh, um, when I'm watching it back, like I, I just remember like, I watched this one specifically, the one that we're talking about, I watched it a couple of times and I will, and I will also say, um, it also depends on the short, like right now, um,
00:42:25
Speaker
Most of my comedy skits are are written are all are all written But I always try to encourage a little bit of improv and John and Josh is really good at that anyway So he's gonna do it whether I ask him to or not He's always gonna throw something in like the like the the part where he says
00:42:42
Speaker
where where I where I tell them I tell them, hey, guys, maybe, you know, I'm going because I don't want to be like you guys sitting on my ass all day playing video games like you guys. And Josh goes, oh, look at this.
00:42:57
Speaker
can't, I can't even say it because he just makes me laugh when I, when I hear his voice in my head. Um, he says, um, something along the lines of, Oh, Mr. Professional's off to a job interview and now he thinks he can tell us how to live our life. What are you interviewing for life coach? Like that, that last part was completely him. He just came up with that on, on the spot. Um, but, so I like to encourage that, that type of stuff. But, um, but
00:43:21
Speaker
some some shorts is just it's just a concept some of them I go I go into it think I have this funny idea I talked to the actors I'm like this is what we're gonna do and then we just make it up on the spot you know and so it really just depends on the idea and the short but usually writing
00:43:39
Speaker
right now, I'm doing a lot of scripted stuff and I try to encourage people to ad lib, but to go back to what you were asking. What were you asking again? I don't know why I went on that. Essentially, uh, since you do a scripted comedy and you're doing sketches, right? Right. How do you like make sure that
00:43:59
Speaker
what you're recording is actually like translating to being funny. Like, sure. Do you try to set up framing to like block in a certain way? Like, is there something that you're doing? Because when you're in the room, there's a vibe, right? And that doesn't necessarily translate because like maybe the angle isn't right. Or maybe like, do you? Is there a way you're accentuating the comedy through the medium of film? I don't you know, I don't really pay too much attention to that. I don't think
00:44:27
Speaker
But what I was going to say about this short, specifically, is like I was because I had to watch it five, 10, 15,000 times in just the various edits. And I just remember like.
00:44:42
Speaker
Again, you know, just thinking about Josh's voice, it just makes me start laughing. But like I would watch I would watch the play out and I would I would be laughing every time we'll start cracking up. And I'm like, yeah, this is so good. This is so funny. It's it's perfect. And, you know, I would we would move on and I would move on to the next part to try to tighten, tighten up different parts of it. But yeah, I think
00:45:06
Speaker
I don't think I've really put too much time and energy into like planning and, you know, how to accentuate it and things like that. Um, like I told you guys last time, I think I'm blessed with a lot of really talented friends and a lot of really good actors that, that for some reason want to work with me, even though it takes me five years to make a three minute film. Um, I, uh,
00:45:37
Speaker
Yeah, dude, you're fast. So, you know, I think it's just having confidence in the material. Like I'm confident in the words that are right. I'm confident in the stuff that I do. But I do.
00:45:53
Speaker
I will, now that I think about it, I do remember, I am working on a film right now that it's about a, in the total run time is gonna be about 20 minutes. It's a comedy, it's a dark comedy. And I remember,
00:46:10
Speaker
I hadn't touched it in a few years and I went back to it and I was watching and I was like, wow, a lot of these jokes do not land at all. Like this is this shit is cringy as fuck. Cringy is bad.
00:46:26
Speaker
but not the whole thing. There was lots of parts where they were fantastic. They were just as good as I remember them before, but I was watching them. I was like, wow, this is bad. Like that line was terrible. And so I just cut that line out. I just edit that part out. And it might take a little bit of work and it might make it a little weird, but I think the film is stronger because that line isn't there or because I cut it five seconds shorter than it was. So, yeah, I think
00:46:57
Speaker
Um, shooting, shooting lots of angles definitely helps out shooting lots of, uh, you know, um, I dunno coverage. I don't know the, the professional terms, um, you know, coverage, uh, get your wide shots in, you know, all that, do a couple of takes and everything. But, um, I, I just do that.
00:47:19
Speaker
I don't do that with the intention of like, Oh, in case it doesn't work while I'm editing it, you know, in case the jokes don't know, I just do that because that's what you're supposed to do. You're supposed to take multiple takes. You're supposed to do multiple angles. Um, there was on this, on this film, the shave and the haircut, um, I worked with, with,
00:47:37
Speaker
I brought in a director of photography. I didn't film this one. It was a friend of mine. And there are pros and cons to that, but there were times when he was telling me, okay, let's move on. And I'm like, no, I need you to get over here and I need you to get this shot from this angle. And, you know, and I think
00:47:54
Speaker
I was able to do a lot more with the editing for this specific one because I asked for him to do things. I asked for coverage. Exactly. You know, so and it's just it's just me covering my ass. You know, it's just me, especially because I was I try I tend not to even even if I'm.
00:48:15
Speaker
I just tried not to watch too much playback. You know, especially if I'm working with the cinematographer that I trust, like Vic. Did you get to meet Vic? I met him like once. OK, got it. So Vic is fantastic filmmakers. You guys should definitely check him out. Vic's cover art is his YouTube.
00:48:33
Speaker
uh he's he's really good and i've worked with him a couple of times and he's just i don't even have to i like for him i completely trust him i'm like i want it like this you know just i want the camera to do this i want the actor to do this okay cool he does it and i i'm watching the actors i'm directing the actors he's he's eating the camera and
00:48:52
Speaker
I yell cut and I said, that was really good for me. Vic, what did you think? He said it was good. I said, cool, we're moving on. Cause I don't, I trust him. You know, I know that he's gonna do what it is that I'm looking for. So, you know, when I'm the camera man,
00:49:08
Speaker
It's kind of sucky, you know, that I have to be doing it all the time. I like being in front of the actors. I like being with the actors while the camera's rolling, you know? But, you know, I'll figure it out. And I just shoot, I try to shoot a couple of takes and, you know, different angles and stuff. So I know what it is that I'm looking for. So if I bring in someone who, like, I'd never worked with this guy as a cinematographer who did Shaven and Herica. We've known Shaven for a long time. I've directed him and stuff, but I'd never worked with him as a DP.
00:49:37
Speaker
So, you know, knowing what I wanted, knowing that what I needed in terms of coverage, I could direct him better to get this shot, get this angle. And it ended up saving me, you know, in the edit because, you know, I had all these different funny angles that I could cut to and stuff. But I don't think it was I don't think it's just intentional. It's just you got to do the work. You got it. You got it. You know, if you've been doing this long enough and you know what you need, you have to do it. You can't.
00:50:04
Speaker
Don't take shortcuts, you know, you mentioned, uh, the jokes that were cringy. Yeah. That when you came back to them, you saw that how valuable do you think it is to have time away from a project and then come back to it? I think it's, I think it's good. Like, like should every project have that? I don't know, but I mean, maybe, you know, like, I don't know.
Editing Struggles and Fresh Perspectives
00:50:26
Speaker
I think, um,
00:50:28
Speaker
I think probably when you're starting, so that's actually a good point. So this film, this 20 minute film, I shot this probably like seven, eight years ago, something like that. Again, another reason why it's taken so long, because it's a longer movie. And back then, my comedic mind wasn't as developed as it is now. So yeah, if you shot something when you were in high school,
00:50:53
Speaker
You know, and then, you know, and you thought jokes were funny then, by the time you're out of college and you're an adult, you'd be like, wow, some of those jokes are fucking stupid as fuck. You know, like I was such, I say this to myself, I was such a fucking idiot. You know, why would I say that? Why would I say that at this point? You know, even just in natural conversations, I think about like what I told my friends, like when I was in high school, I'm like, how the fuck is that guy still your friend? You're such a fucking dick to that guy, Josh. Like you're so stupid, but he's still my friend for some reason.
00:51:22
Speaker
Uh, but you know, so your comedy evolves as well over time. So hopefully, hopefully. Yeah. So, so yeah, I think for certain projects, it does help. Like I think this 20 minute film, I could probably get it down to like 15, 16 minutes now because of all the stuff I'm going to cut out of it, you know? So, you know, and that might, that might help it flow a little bit faster and get to the jokes faster and to we'll see, you know, we'll see what happens. But I don't think, I don't think it's necessary for every project. You know, if you've spent a lot of time on the script,
00:51:54
Speaker
And you're very confident and you've sent it to a few people and, you know, gotten good responses from it. You know, go for it, I think. Go for it confidently. And, you know, like I wrote a 15... It took me like...
00:52:09
Speaker
It took the first project that I worked with Michael on. It was a 15 page script. I wrote it over a period of two and a half years, 15 pages. And when we filmed everything, I was just, I was super, everything was like, it was super fast. It was super, I was very confident about it. Was that the cat one? No, no, it was, no one knows about it. I'm still working on it. I'm still working on it.
00:52:33
Speaker
Maybe by the next time we do a podcast, I'll have some footage or something. But I was very confident about all my decisions on that film because I had worked on the script for so long. All the actors knew what they were doing. We had done read-throughs, we had done three table reads of that script, those 15 pages. So I was like, this works. I know what I'm doing. I love it. Boom, boom, boom. And then we moved on. And that was also the first project I worked with Vic on. He filmed it.
00:53:01
Speaker
And, uh, and yeah, so it's, you know, I was, I'm very happy with how that one is coming out, but we'll see, you know, but it's just project by project, man. You just gotta, you know,
00:53:13
Speaker
Okay, I have a question as well. It kind of is almost maybe the opposite of Steven's question a little bit, but I want Steven to answer it first. Uh-oh. Me? Yeah. I'm in the chair? You're in the chair. So one thing I've noticed, especially since pretty much every weekend recently we've been editing Dickhead, I've been watching
00:53:33
Speaker
the movie over and over and over and over again. And something that is hard is to retain that perspective. And things that were funny have started to become not funny because I've seen it so much. And I'm thinking specifically of the Cocksuckers line.
00:53:52
Speaker
No, that will always be funny because to me I was looking at it I was like do we cut this like I'm like, is it cringy enough that we cut it? Like is it even working in the film because it's I have seen Michael Barrett yell cocksuckers into a fridge full of junk food Ten thousand times listen to that description. Keep it
00:54:14
Speaker
It sounds funny. I'm already laughing and haven't watched it. But I'm also think because I think like sometimes I'm just like some stuff I'm just like is this even I get to this point where I'm like I'm played out. How do you like other than you know taking like years off of a film or whatever.
00:54:34
Speaker
I guess it's like a, it's not even a really good question, but like, cause I want to ask like, how do you keep that confidence level and something that like once you kind of only get, once it starts feeling played out, right? Like you love a song you hear on the radio and then the 10,000th time you heard on the radio, like you would rather like drive your car off a cliff. No, I still jam out to 500 miles by the proclaimers.
00:54:54
Speaker
You haven't gone 500 miles, that's what I was gonna say. So Stephen, yeah, like how, like, do you just try to, do you try to remember that you knew it was funny at one point to you? Or, like, how, like, like, what do you think about what I just said? No, I think that's very important, is to not burn yourself out from the material. So, in respect to, like, the film we're working on. That's why you should do five projects at once. Exactly. But in respect to the film we're working on,
00:55:22
Speaker
You know, I don't just watch it to watch it. If I'm going to be watching any of it, I have the intent to work on it. And then that prevents me from over-watching it, you know, because I feel like we've already watched Dickhead and me and you together a little too much to where a lot of doubts creeping in. And I think you have to also go with your
00:55:48
Speaker
your initial, well, your gut feeling, you know, you kind of knew what your gut wanted and you got to trust in that because then if you start watching it over and over, you're going to just doubt everything. And so that's why I will try to avoid watching it more than I need to. And like I was going to work on it this week because Tom was going to come over and we're going to work after this.
00:56:13
Speaker
and I was gonna do all these micro adjustments to the edit, but then I was like, no, I'm not gonna do that, because I want an actual time code on there, and then I wanna actually do my notes, and then for him and I to have this back and forth, I don't really wanna engage with the material too soon, because that's gonna be a lot of time wasted, and that's gonna maybe implant a bias in my head that,
00:56:40
Speaker
isn't real too, you know, you gotta also be worried about that. But I do value time away from the film or from any project because when you go back to it with a more mature, educated mind, you start to see a lot of the issues.
00:56:57
Speaker
So I think really in your respect, buddy, you just got to stop watching it so much. You know, pull yourself away from it. Only engage with it when you're actually going to work on it. Not just to get ideas. I mean, maybe if you're like in that creative mood and you want to just dissect the project and break it down into certain elements. Sure. Yeah.
00:57:19
Speaker
But otherwise, stay away from it. Because I'll say for myself, just to make it feel my guess, maybe it's just to make myself feel less guilty. I watch it like at least once a day and then I make notes every single day.
00:57:35
Speaker
And then I go back and I'm like, are these notes even valid anymore? I think I've just lost myself completely in the woods at some point. And then I'll stop. When we were really getting into it, I was just like, I don't care about anything but this. I was watching every take. I was just going back and just going through the footage again. And then I'm like, I don't want to look at it. I don't want to think about it.
00:57:59
Speaker
I go back in and then we, you know, we start cutting together and it's like, fuck, this feels fresh. Like, it's very interesting. But at the same time, I'm like, I just, I think part of me, I think part of it is the longevity of the project. And it's like, I need to be done with this fucking movie. Yes, we do.
00:58:18
Speaker
Like I am so fucking sick at looking at those fuck it. Like I was telling Josh earlier, like the shot lame psych where it's like E D R V E X. I'm so fucking sick at looking at those titles. And then I'm like, I have almost an encyclopedic knowledge of I know exactly like every single shot framing and everything. It's like it's like it's.
00:58:40
Speaker
It's almost like too all encompassing. I'm like, I'm just ready for it to be gone because once it's gone, it's like it's like you're you know, you're releasing Atlas releasing the Earth. You know, it's like I'm ready. But like, but, you know, Josh has is like kind of like his own remedy for that. Like you were saying is, you know, you just start working on another project. Yeah. I just I can't do it. You can't work on another project. To me, I always have I have a hard and fast rule. If I can't get it done in one day, I'm not doing it.
00:59:08
Speaker
because if I can't get it done in one day, I should be working on it again. That's been my logic for almost a decade now. Gotcha. But hey, you're almost done. That's why he says no to so much stuff.
00:59:20
Speaker
Hey, you're almost done with the gun. So, you know, it's been working. Yeah, but it's like, and I hope it, you know, it pays off and, you know, uh, Steve and I get that Blumhouse deal and then we, you know, bring Josh on. Oh, I'm there, man. And then, uh, we all just quit our jobs and we go get a fucking commune now in LA and make films for the rest of our lives. And that sounds fun. And you know, uh, bank 20 year old actresses, your wife. Okay. With that.
00:59:50
Speaker
She'll have a plenty of alimony. Well, you know, I'm kidding, of course. She doesn't listen to this. Yeah, you're completely safe. But but I would definitely say that. In regards to you, Josh, with the other projects. I think one of the things. That keeps me from engaging with projects like Tom has his one day or done, you know, Minuteman deal, you know what I'm saying? To pump chump. But for myself,
Choosing Projects and Personal Vision
01:00:20
Speaker
like something that I'm seriously gonna get invested in. Like for friends, sure, I'll get seriously invested into that if I can, because I like it, it excites me. Like hearing you talk about you editing, like, yeah, I gotta go, man, I'm gonna edit. It's like, that's fucking cool. Like, yeah, I should get to work too. You know, it inspired me, it really did. But, you know, I have so many ideas, but I just junk them.
01:00:44
Speaker
You know, or if I like something, an aspect of it, I'll write it down and then I can Frankenstein it into another project. Cause I think, I think you should really just invest yourself into the ideas that don't go away, that really don't leave you alone. Absolutely. And then finish them. Yeah. You know, like.
01:01:06
Speaker
Like that's the difference between me and you. No, I mean, I'm just saying that's the difference between you and myself because I don't have anything to show. You have a ton of shit to show. And there's a reality to that, dichotomy between us. But my hope is that once it's finished,
01:01:27
Speaker
it's gonna stand and shine. But then also there's that fear and it kind of leads into a question I had for you and confidence. And there's that fear where it's like, oh, well, maybe I was just fooling myself thinking this
01:01:42
Speaker
film was really good and it's actually a piece of shit. And now I've just solely dedicated myself to this for X amount of years. And then when it's released, it's like, oh, damn it. You know, basically a quantity versus quality is essentially, you know, and the quality is not meeting it. So do you ever run into issues where your confidence is shaken and then what happens then? Because we sure do. If you listen to the podcast, there's a lot of confidence being shook.
01:02:11
Speaker
Um, yeah, I mean, of course you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna run into that. Um, a lot, you know, you're going to fail a lot more than you're going to succeed in anything, not just the film business, but I mean, ultimately you also, I mean, the way that I look at things is I'm making the movies that I want to see, you know, it's, it's the,
01:02:38
Speaker
I think Tarantino said that, he said something like, yeah, if the audience likes it, great, but I'm making the movies for me. I think this is cool. I think this is fun. So that's kind of the mentality that I've really had over the last couple of years. When I first started out, yeah, obviously I wanted people to like it. I thought, you know,
01:03:03
Speaker
I needed, I needed to be validated, you know, by the audience reacting positively to my work, but it's my work. It's my art. You know, I've, I've realized that over the last couple of years, I'm the, I'm the artist and you know, at the end of the day, it's gotta, it's gotta please me.
01:03:22
Speaker
You know, fuck the audience. Freakin said the same thing, by the way. Yeah. OK, there you go. Tommy has said the same thing, by the way. So, you know, well, I have no freak in our Tarantino. So take that as you will. But it's but it's OK, you know, because you're still an artist. So, you know, I I honestly like.
01:03:41
Speaker
I can't wait to be in your guys position where I'm about to release a feature length film. I really can't. We can't wait to be in your position where we're about to release anything. And we'll talk about that in a second too. But I just know that
01:04:02
Speaker
by the time I'm there, by the time I'm about to release it, like I'm just going to be so happy with the work that I've done. I'm just going to be so proud of the work that I've done that if a million people tell me it sucks, I'm like, well, it's not for you. It's for me, you know, it's my baby. It's, it's, I think it's really good. And, you know, and so, um, yeah, that's, I think that, um,
01:04:31
Speaker
The fact that, you know, my channel hasn't really grown much in the last couple of years. I guess you could say, yeah, it dampens my it dampens my confidence a little bit, but.
01:04:44
Speaker
Like, when you have 10 other films that you haven't finished yet, you don't really have a lot of time to think about shit like, you know, like how many people aren't watching aren't watching my shit, you know, like I've got so many other other things that I'm working on. I got so many other scripts that I'm that I'm trying to to write. I just have these stories that I feel like I'm
01:05:05
Speaker
I genuinely believe I was put on this earth to make movies. I genuinely feel that in my heart, in the core of my being. I'm meant to be a filmmaker. So if that's what I'm supposed to do,
01:05:20
Speaker
A million people telling me no isn't gonna stop me. It's not gonna, it's not gonna, it'll probably dampen my confidence a little bit, sure, but it's not gonna stop me from working. It's not gonna stop me from making movies. And what I was gonna say about our different positions is, and I have been, you know,
01:05:38
Speaker
I have been criticized once or twice because of the fact that I take on multiple projects or I do multiple projects at the same time. But what's kind of funny is that the other creators who kind of look down on that a little bit or who don't really agree with that
01:06:01
Speaker
When you look at our libraries, there is, you know, our, when you look at our portfolios of our work that's online, there's no comparison, right? It's there, they're, they've got two or three projects on there. I've got, you know, I've got the 40 something short films that are on my, on my channel and.
01:06:17
Speaker
I don't think I would I don't think I would get to that point where I have so many short films to show if I wasn't if I didn't have the ADHD brain okay what's next what's next what's this is cool okay let's move on to the next thing this one of this thing let's do five things at once because you know I don't think I would I would have that and. You know and and. I.
01:06:42
Speaker
Well, it kind of happened unintentionally, but now it's become an intentional thing and it has to do with what I just did last year. There was a point where unintentionally I discovered that even on the years where
01:06:58
Speaker
Like I had some really bad years, you know, of my life where I was dealing with personal stuff or what have you. But even in the years where they were, I had the darkest times, I always was able to upload at least one video in that entire year and that entire to my YouTube channel. So if you go back to my channel, you'll see it on like by year, you'll see an unbroken chain of year by year. At least one video is on there every single year. Last year.
01:07:25
Speaker
I, last year was really tough for me. I didn't release a single video until December 31st of last year. Yeah. But, but it was because I had this thing in my head. I was like, I have to release a video this year. No matter what happens, I have to make something I have to make, you know, and, and luckily again, because I have, because I have so many
01:07:46
Speaker
plates that I'm balancing at the same time, I had this film that was basically done. It was sitting in my in my hard drive. There were just a couple of things that I wanted to tweak. I wanted to work on. And so when it was getting down to the wire, I was like, oh, yeah, I have this film. Let me go back to it real quick. I put a couple of tweaks in there and I was like, OK, cool. It's good enough for me. And I uploaded it, you know. So it's just working, continuing to work and continuing to create
01:08:13
Speaker
Um, it, it kind of eliminates a lot of those negative feelings for me. You know, I'll say interestingly enough for me is, um, when I'm going through the worst years of my life, my output is insane.
Creativity as Therapy and Motivation
01:08:27
Speaker
And I think it's because, you know, I use the creative side as the therapy that I need to get through it. Sure. And then when I'm happy shit, man, I ain't getting shit done. So I haven't been getting a lot done lately. Um,
01:08:42
Speaker
So then for you, when you're going through those hard times, does your productivity just kind of halt? I mean, yeah, I guess you, I guess you could say that, you know, um, cause like I said, last year I didn't, I didn't really release anything, but you know, I still try to write, you know, I don't write every day. I, I really need to get into that habit, especially after, well, we could talk about that in a second. Um, but, um, but.
01:09:08
Speaker
yeah i mean i guess i guess you you it can look like that from the outside looking in but i mean. Take a look at so i release that film on december thirty first right and then.
01:09:23
Speaker
Almost two weeks ago, I released Shaven a haircut, right? That was in February. So I got one in December, one in February. Hopefully if everything goes well, I'll be releasing a new film in the next two days, right? So that's a period of four months where I've released, you know, almost one film a month.
01:09:41
Speaker
Yeah. And and so, yeah, you could look at all of 2023 and say, yeah, your productivity stopped, but they don't see that I was working these three films I was working on, you know, last year. I've been I've been doing I've been working on Little by Little over the last year. So it kind of adds up over time and.
01:10:03
Speaker
You know, even though it might seem like my productivity is is low or or comes to a halt, you know, there's there's other there's other things that are in the works, you know, and Red Sands like it didn't premiere on any of my YouTube channels. You know, I don't I mean, I'm sorry, it doesn't it didn't premiere on my YouTube channel. The it's basically an hour and a half worth of
01:10:24
Speaker
content, right? It's a feature film, right? That is not appearing on my YouTube channel. So it could look like my productivity slowed because it's not on my channel. But now that the four episodes are live and my name is on them as an executive producer, you know, like
01:10:41
Speaker
people will see or from the outside looking in, you can look, you can look at that and say, Oh, okay. Yeah. He didn't produce anything on his channel, but he was working on this series that, you know, now that he's the co-creator of that's on, you know, the streaming services. So.
01:10:56
Speaker
Yeah, you know, you're going to you're going to get hit pretty hard sometimes in life. And yeah, my work does slow down sometimes. But I always try to do I just have to create, man. I'm a creator. I'm that's what I feel like I'm supposed to be doing. And and like you said, it's very it is very therapeutic. You know, like I
01:11:20
Speaker
I started editing this thing that I hadn't touched in a few years. And when I was editing it, I was like, wow, I haven't edited something in like months. I think it's been months since I've been in my editing program and it felt so good. I stayed up awake to like three or four in the morning just cutting this movie together because I was just so, I was having so much fun, man. And I forget that it's therapeutic. Do you ever beat yourself up?
01:11:42
Speaker
Or do you think it's even valuable to beat yourself up for, for lack of productivity? Yeah, sometimes. Yeah. I don't think it's value. Well, maybe. Do you think like kick yourself in gear or do you think it ultimately maybe is, um, it's just draining, you know, and self defeat is to kind of beat yourself. No, I mean, if you, if you do it the right way, you know, like, like Josh, the right way, tell me, please. Well, don't, don't, well, don't go,
01:12:09
Speaker
Don't call yourself a piece of shit every five seconds. I think the right way is like, damn, look at this. This fucking movie is so good. You fuck it. You should have just, you should have done this five months ago. You've been wasting your time. Come on, get to work, man. You know, like just, just do a little bit of work every single day. Just do, do, do.
01:12:33
Speaker
get into this editing program once a week, dude. You can do this. You're not a lazy fuck. Well, maybe sometimes you are, but you can do this. You were put on this earth to do this, then you got to get to work. I sometimes tell myself, this film
01:12:51
Speaker
especially if it's like based on content that or some current event. Yeah, exactly. Like this would have been so good three years ago, dude, you need to finish this shit already. Like, come on, man, you're wasting your time. You know, so those types of things I think are a positive day. They help you. They help you get a move on. And yeah, you know, I'm I I think I think it does help. You know, I think it does help the fact that I'm trying to get this other film done, like kind of like how you were saying with the deadlines and everything like
01:13:17
Speaker
I think it is healthy sometimes to have that type of deadline and, and, you know, and talking to myself and being like, yeah, you can do this. You can finish it by Oscars by Oscars morning. You can finish it by that day. You just have to put in the work. You just have to, you know, spend a few hours after the podcast and edit. Don't be a bitch. I want to pivot a little. Did you have anything else you wanted to know? So.
01:13:40
Speaker
Well, you've been talking about this when you're trying to get done in a couple of days. Do you want to tell us a little bit about that? I think Tom and I worked on that with you. I will admit when I showed up for the shoot day, I think I was extremely hungover.
01:13:57
Speaker
No, I think I was pretty hungover when I was like, I'm gonna faint, I'm gonna puke, I'm gonna die. Jesus Christ, I'm dying. But yeah, tell us a little bit about, or tell us a lot a bit, a lot about this project. Before we start that, can we take a quick break? Sure. And do you have any hard outs? Because it's already past midnight. Oh no, no. It's past midnight? Yeah. Well then let's just...
01:14:24
Speaker
I need to pee. Talk about the Oscars. And then we can argue or pick your short for the Oscars and then we can start to wrap it up because you still got to get to work and so do we. Yeah, we also need to record. So let's take a quick break. And then when we come back, we will talk about Josh's new short. All right, cool.