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Humor in the Workplace: A Cost‑Benefit Analysis
32 Plays7 days ago
In this episode, we dig into the nuances of humor at work—why it connects, why it misfires, and why it can feel especially risky for Asian and Asian American professionals. We each share stories about jokes that landed, moments that didn’t, and how context, rapport, and power dynamics shape what’s “safe” to say. Together, we reflect on authenticity, self‑deprecation, and how humor can ease tension or deepen connection. Join us for a warm and honest conversation about laughing—and being understood—at work.
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Transcript
Introduction: Humor in the Workplace
00:00:10
Speaker
Welcome back to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight, your podcast for all things Asian in the workplace. I'm Jenny. I'm Echo. And I'm Joke. So today we're going to be talking about humor in the workplace. You know, is it appropriate? Is it not? And if it is appropriate, when do you use it? And how does it apply to Asian and Asian American professionals?
00:00:33
Speaker
So the plan today is to provide our take on it first and then share a little bit about what the research has shown and then bring it back to what it really means for our audience and beyond.
Personal Views on Workplace Humor
00:00:46
Speaker
How does that sound, everybody? Sounds wonderful.
00:00:48
Speaker
Well, OK, so let's kick it off. I'm curious to know, like, what's your take on humor in the workplace? Is it appropriate? Is it not? And if it's not, why? Or if it is, why?
00:01:01
Speaker
Gotta have it. So yes. It limits Echo's options. Yeah. Yes. So, Duke, you're saying yes. Yeah. So we'll go with the short answer. Then my short answer is it depends. It depends. Oh, come on. Come on, Echo. You've got to explain that. I mean, I think yes. I also think yes. But it depends on the situation. So I think I'm a little bit in between.
00:01:25
Speaker
But yeah, i think humor can be appropriate sometimes.
00:01:31
Speaker
Who wants to go first? tough You opened with a yes. So ah this isn't an empirical ah from an empirical perspective, more so just my lived experiences in that ah life in itself is so serious and can be so frightening already that I feel like having a little bit of sense of humor or having a little bit levity in a place that we spend a third of our lives is essential because There's going to be things that just don't go our way, both in life and the workplace. And I feel like for me, just got to laugh at it and move on where we
Importance of Comfort through Humor
00:02:07
Speaker
can. And, you know, that things have to be serious and or things we have to take things serious in the workplace most of the time. But I feel like for that buffer there, I feel like humor plays an important role
00:02:22
Speaker
in you know, making me feel that I'm comfortable at work, and especially for a place I'm going to spend a good amount of my life at. So for me, one way or another, humor has to be there.
00:02:34
Speaker
Oh, OK. That's a good take. Echo, you? so Echo, you, you. just heard that. Instead of your last name, then was like, oh, my God, that's Echo's last name. That's her full name.
00:02:48
Speaker
Well, that's a nice humor. Yeah, you just ah used to utilize that humor to soften the environment a little bit for me to soften up. See, that's the utility of using humor.
00:03:01
Speaker
The reason why I answer it depends. I think fundamentally that we all know, like, like Doug has mentioned, humor is something that we use to bond the wealth with each other and to connect with one another. But there are times when, especially when they come to organization, come to the workplace itself and,
00:03:22
Speaker
When it comes to the workplace, there are other factors that involved where work were deemed as more serious and you're not supposed to joke around.
Negative Impacts of Humor
00:03:32
Speaker
While establishing the trust and the relationship are important, which is one of the functions that humor does, but it also comes with power. Not everyone got the autonomy to use the humor.
00:03:46
Speaker
That is my answer to it depends. I do think work has its own own dynamics bring to using the humor. Okay. And let me ask you, because Doug said that he absolutely requires humor in the workplace.
00:04:00
Speaker
Echo, if you had to choose between two jobs, two same jobs, both professional, but one is with a team that is a bit more humorous versus the other, what would you choose?
00:04:12
Speaker
If it's a team, then i would definitely choose more of a the ones that has more humor it. All right. Okay. Yeah. I'm the same way. I think the workplace should be a place where you can express humor, especially if it comes naturally, because I agree with do and what you said, like life is too short. The world is ah there There's just so many horrible things going on. Like we got to be able to laugh about it. There is a sense of, you know, seriousness that you have to bring and professionalism. But I also think that we can also be a little bit, you know, lighthearted and, inject laughter where it is appropriate. Echo, you brought up a lot of interesting stuff about like structure and utility. We could pivot slightly and go into the research and ah share ah with our audience some of the things that we found about you know humor in the
Humor Research in Management
00:04:59
Speaker
workplace. Now, we want to caveat this by saying that the humor research is still in a very...
00:05:06
Speaker
nascent or infant stage compared to other leadership or other concepts in management like leadership or motivation. There are like decades of research. The paper that we're going to be talking about, it's actually a sort of like a synthesis on the humor literature. And i think it only listed like less than 20 articles over the past 30 years on the topic of humor. And so just to provides a little bit of context. There isn't a lot of research on humor, but we were able to find a few articles that are relevant to our audience and our topic. So I guess we could start breaking down that that article and talk a little bit about like what are the the main takeaways.
00:05:44
Speaker
I can get us started, but definitely, and Jenny, add your perspective as well. um So I only highlight the one that I find interesting or I felt like I wanted to hear both of you's opinions on it.
00:05:59
Speaker
Humor is this like a double-edged sword that it doesn't really work. I think in the scenario that most of us three of us have actually been talking about is humor has been this very positive thing and humor has been this the one that we can get along with each other, that we feel like we can help
Alienation through Insensitive Humor
00:06:19
Speaker
us to connect and bond. But I think there's also this dark side of humor, and especially when it comes to, like, threatening someone's identity or making fun of something that you don't necessarily agree with.
00:06:33
Speaker
Then that gets interesting because it has this dynamics of the in-group, out-group, where if you don't laugh about it or um you just don't necessarily agree, then you'll find yourself in a situation that you might be alienim alienating yourself um from the group.
00:06:50
Speaker
I find that so interesting. Almost like and when someone tells a joke, either you get it or you you get it, you don't agree. Or you are actually funny, funny. So you start laughing about it.
00:07:04
Speaker
I don't know if Doug or Jenny, if you had the experience like that, where you feel like, oh, you were kind of forced to laugh because you have to identify with this person or the group. Jenny, does that ever happen to you?
00:07:15
Speaker
Or I'm forced to laugh? No. i I mean, I think that also goes back to being authentic. If I find the joke not humorous or just not funny or actually offensive, I won't laugh. It doesn't matter if it's a leader, if it's a peer, I just won't laugh. And I might even call it out, like if it's in a really offensive joke. What about you? I have called people out on their, well, sense of humor. When I said we absolutely need to have humor in the workplace, I guess there is that fine line when some some people pass it times sometimes. And I think correcting that outside or outside that particular meeting, I think is very important to have. It's hard to force me to laugh. It has to come naturally. But I will call people out to the side if they're important enough to me.
00:08:01
Speaker
So I want to caveat that, put that out there as well, too. Like, it doesn't mean that I'm willing to put myself out there to correct everybody every time. It's people I care enough about, about their ah their self-development, who they are as a person within an organization, a leader within the organization, that I'm willing to put myself out there
Addressing Inappropriate Humor
00:08:22
Speaker
like that. Because...
00:08:23
Speaker
I know potentially it could become a defensive game of like, I didn't mean it that way. And that is just no longer funny. Is this all the work? Then the onus of the work is then put on the person trying to correct that behavior.
00:08:41
Speaker
what are some examples of of someone trying to be humorous, but it just not landing? And I can share an example where I actually had to call it out because i i just felt strongly about it.
00:08:52
Speaker
This was when I was working in in Columbia, South America at the business school. And one of my colleagues, and I actually respected him. And you know he was actually one of the few people that I actually respected at at the college or at the university. He shared a meme remember exactly what it said, but it was the effect of you don't want your dog to be like it was the photo of the the Chinese president. What's his name? x Xi? Yeah, Xi, President Xi. And it was something to the effect of you don't want this guy.
00:09:23
Speaker
You don't want to leave your dog with this guy. So the the joke was, you know, like Asian people, Chinese people in this case, like eating dogs. And that got a laugh because I think he shared it as a meme in the WhatsApp group with all the professors. Later on, just told him something like that, that affects people, especially people who look like me. might not think it's You might not realize that, but you know during the height of COVID, when there's so much like anti-Asian sentiment, something like that might be misinterpreted. And yeah, so that was an example where I actually mentioned that probably not the best thing to share, especially in that context, especially with me. an Asian person, even though i'm not Chinese, that's still going to affect me somehow. That's one example where I was like, yeah, this is not really funny. Do you call him out in the group directly? No, no, no. That was a side conversation. with yes i conversation Yeah,
00:10:22
Speaker
I think there's different type of humor. And in this one, it's very specific and targeted specific group. In this case, it's the Chinese and and there's this racial connection that this one might actually have, like it's an Asian group thing. So that can be something inappropriate, which actually people can use different strategies when there are humors like that. But before we get there, because in the organization, like in in the two example YouTube brought up is more the teammates, like your peers. It doesn't have this dramatic like a power
00:10:58
Speaker
difference. But what if the person who make that joke is your boss, who actually have control over your performance review, ah have the power to determine your compensation?
00:11:11
Speaker
i think that will put a different dynamics to how you will deal with it. Are you going to say, are you going call it out? Are you going to share your thoughts with this person?
00:11:22
Speaker
um That would make it so much tougher. What would you do, Doug, if that were your You guys are putting me in a corner where I'm to say it depends. ah It depends on your career aspirations.
00:11:37
Speaker
So if you want to get a promotion, you're not going to say anything? You know, I don't know. Gosh, I have no idea. I don't know what the right answer is. That's so hard. I would say, you know, I've actually had this happen in the, it was about little bit over 10 years ago. There was this one particular supervisor of mine who meant to use the word chink.
00:11:59
Speaker
as a little crack in the armor, but used it right in front of me, in front of another colleague. And I said, and you meant to mean the crack in the armor, right?
00:12:14
Speaker
And I got no validation. ah which called that person out on it because, yeah i don't know, maybe I was a younger fellow and I didn't care as much. i didn't think that I, that this, I mean, I think this particular job could have been a career of some sort, but i was, I would say, hot to trot.
00:12:34
Speaker
ah Yeah, I remember you shared this example. So you did call him out in this case. I did. ah Never really understood how it would have panned out if we continued to be a subordinate supervisor. But at that age, I think I was energetic and maybe Green? how Green.
00:12:56
Speaker
And
Challenges with Higher-Up Humor
00:12:57
Speaker
didn't think about the long-term consequences. so I don't know what could have became if I'd be quiet. i probably would have been really mad at myself. I can tell you that. I was quiet about it. But um I wasn't, so I'm not regretting that one bit at all.
00:13:14
Speaker
Well, if it were to happen now, what would you do? Hmm. I'd probably do the same thing. you You would. Okay, so you would confirm that. I'm not dealing with that crap.
00:13:26
Speaker
Yeah, you better come up with a synonym real quick, supervisor. Yeah. i I mean, I think that's a really tough question too, because I think on paper, yes, absolutely, I would want to. But I think it really also depends on the type of relationship I have with my leader. And so if we have a really, really strong relationship,
00:13:45
Speaker
And I know that this is not going to affect my promotion or performance review whatever, then I think I would bring it up. But I would be very, very tactful about how I would bring it up. It would be a private conversation. And i would just focus on the behavior and the impact rather than using like words or saying that you're racist or you're this or that.
00:14:05
Speaker
would just say, hey, when you said this, this is how it made me feel. And so i just wanted to share that with you. not to try and correct their behavior, but just say this was the impact that it had on me. If I didn't have that relationship or that rapport with this person, then I probably would just stay quiet. Yeah. Because my paycheck is more important than getting validation. Jenny, are so kind. haven't shared this other story.
00:14:29
Speaker
ah But there was one other colleague that said that his son was looking at, you know, a picture of looking me up or whatever on LinkedIn. And then i got sent like a little black and white pencil drawing of a stereotypical Asian guy with ah one of those hats. Oh, gosh. And I didn't respond for a few days. And that person knew something was up.
00:14:51
Speaker
happened to be another iowa psychologist at our level. A few days later, this person approached me and he's like, you know, i'm he sensed something was off and he's like, you i you know, I apologize if something was, if that picture was offensive.
00:15:07
Speaker
And I looked at him, I said, look, you know better, you know? So I think it really, yeah I'm with you that it does really depend on the relationship, what that social buffer is.
00:15:18
Speaker
ah how much of social capital you have and you're willing to spend with that person as well too. Because at that point, I'm like, there's just certain things I expect of professionals as well too.
00:15:32
Speaker
ah We're all in the workplace. There's a line. He knew he crossed it. He got, ah if you're going to use psychological terms, ostracized by me.
00:15:44
Speaker
So this was a colleague, a peer. ah Yeah, within the organization. a Yeah, different reporting line. I wouldn't say, yeah. Yeah, I can't believe he did that. So he sent you a drawing that his son did of the stereotypical Asian dude. No, no. He he said his son was looking me up on LinkedIn for some of my work. And so then that was the setup for that that Asian drawing. He sent me that picture. Goddamn. He drawed that picture? No.
00:16:14
Speaker
Not his son? No. let me Let me try to find the picture. Well, what about you, Echo? So while Doug looks up the picture, what would you do if it were a reader that said something meant to be humorous, but it was actually offensive? I'm more reading in the line is, is this person aware of it?
00:16:33
Speaker
Or is this person just said this in like a joke's case? Like it does feel like that person already know about this, but still sent him this picture.
00:16:44
Speaker
Then that will piss me off and I will have the slight conversation. But if someone is set this in a way that they didn't even know, like they, they can be, I don't know, like they're less aware of the situation, then I think that's more of an education moment that I don't feel like I will specifically call it out. um I'm probably going to mention it and say, hey, boss, last time when you said this, I had the impression that you probably didn't mean this, but this is how you you got me feel. But if it's more they are aware of this and then they still said it, then I think it's a different situation.
00:17:25
Speaker
So it depends on the other person's intention. Okay. And it's really hard to determine intention sometimes. So now what what I'm hearing from you, Echo, is it also depends on like, Going back to what Doug said, like the amount of social capital you have with this person, the amount of rapport you have with this person that determines that. That actually brings us back to the article, which is um even though this was a meta-analysis, there was a lot of unanswered questions at the end of the article, a lot of boundary conditions and a lot of mixed results in the
Leadership and Humor
00:17:55
Speaker
literature. For example, it says that one of the main takeaways from the article um and all the research that has been done on humor is that leaders who use humor are generally more likable.
00:18:06
Speaker
However, there are all these caveats like, depends on who your audience is It also depends on your gender. There's some research showing that when women display humor, they're seen as less competent, but then there are other research showing that women actually get a boost compared to men.
00:18:22
Speaker
And so there's so many mixed results out there when it comes to humor. And so That's why it's so interesting to have these conversations to to get a sense of what what is appropriate and how have you used humor and in the past. Have any of you used humor to bond with other people? So we talked about using humor as a way to or responding to bad sense of humor. But what about humor that you've used to bond with either your colleagues or your boss?
00:18:49
Speaker
I had the habit to use humor to just call out the situation we're in. So for example, if there are meetings that you'll clearly see there are two views and they're kind of like a going against each other and the temperature start getting heating up a little bit.
00:19:13
Speaker
And usually I like to call the situation out and say, hey, it seems like we're in the hot pot or in the the situation where I think sometimes actually helped. Usually that happens is we're a group discussion and both parties are so focused on their own point of view. When I inject the humor, it just felt like the third person's calling out on the situation somehow caused the the temperature getting even hotter.
00:19:45
Speaker
So i'd like to use that as the, or even just make a joke about the the topic itself. It's like a hot potatoes or something like that.
00:19:57
Speaker
That sometimes helped ways the discussion or I, even though i call it discussion, but usually it's like a fierce debate. Yeah. Yeah.
Humor as Conflict Diffuser
00:20:07
Speaker
I use that. I like that because then you're you're calling it out, getting people to step back and realize, hey, we're we're in this together. Like this is ah this is a hot potato that we got to like figure out or that. But you know, what's interesting is I think that has something to do with my own style of preference because I'm the type of person. Tend to avoid conflict.
00:20:31
Speaker
So when I sensed the room gets harder, or the situation like when people are starting getting into debate or even sometimes more fierce conversation on that. i I'm not feeling comfortable.
00:20:46
Speaker
So I use humor to help me to gain my own ground, almost like a self-defense that start to kick off. I don't know if it's a good strategy or not, but that's the way that makes me feel better about the situation.
00:21:01
Speaker
I think it's a great strategy. But it can be interpreted as this person doesn't like to debate with other people or something. Because usually I'm in that situation, debate with this person.
00:21:12
Speaker
Huh. This person doesn't get it. that This person is not debating with us. This person might not be as engaged or feel passionate about the topic. Oh, I could see how that could go that way. Right. Yeah.
00:21:24
Speaker
Yeah. So again, so many contextual factors.
00:21:33
Speaker
Doug, were you able to find the drawing? I did. Can we can we pivot a little bit? Let's go back. All right. I want to send it to our group chat. Let's just see how offensive this is. Oh my goodness. Seriously?
00:21:46
Speaker
on a picture. Yeah. The context is my son found a picture of you. Oh, no, this is not right. Yeah. Yeah. So if this is a a cartoon depiction of a very stereotypical Asian guy. So slanted eyes. He has the whole Fu Manchu and the the rice hat. Rice patty hat. Rice patty hat. Yeah, yeah. This this would get you fired in today's world. Yeah, we're in fitting for Vietnamese, but probably not that grew up in Iowa.
00:22:15
Speaker
if someone sent me that, I would be pissed. No, no. He said, the context is, he said his son was looking me up and found a picture of me. Oh, I And this what he found. Yeah, and that's the setup. Yeah, his son did not find it. He wanted to send a picture of this over to me.
00:22:35
Speaker
That's not even funny. Doug, interestingly though, you you your response was silence and he knew enough that it was wrong. So ah he knew that this was probably not the best thing to do. I think he was just hoping that you would be one of those sellout Asian people who was like, hey, hee he hate this is so funny because there are people like that there. And it just surprised me when I see people like that who are willing to be the butt of the joke and think it's okay.
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, you know that's that's that's really interesting, Jenny. I think we talked about this, I think, in some of our previous episodes that in a way we're all on this continuum of assimilation or not, or what we're willing to do to just fit in.
00:23:15
Speaker
And I would say for me, i'm at the point where I'm comfortable enough to say like, eh, not so much, buddy. Yeah. So I think he got the message. I think it definitely changed the relationship and how I felt he saw who I was and or what I am. And there's there's that definitely that fine line between is it humor or is it a microaggression? and I think It could be both. It could be both. it could be both. The humor that was meant to be funny, but actually the impact is it's a microaggression. And I hope that he learned that he can't cross that line ever again with another Asian person or any person of color. Yeah. Or maybe, like you said, like maybe someone else has responded differently and I was just the other ah the other side of it. It's a good lesson for him, but it's also, i guess for me or for us, different ways to navigate. And I feel like
00:24:07
Speaker
Maybe as a Asian male, I think I may have some different privileges allotted
Humor vs. Microaggressions
00:24:13
Speaker
to me. I feel like I might get away with being maybe aggressive or passive aggressive a little bit more, or Echo to your point, you know being a little bit more standoff-ish, because we know the stereotype of but potentially both ah Asian men and women that they are maybe submissive or meek or won't speak up.
00:24:39
Speaker
And it was something that, you know, there are times where I'm like, should I choose to speak up? Is this person worth it? And it's definitely a calculation that I myself do ah But it's something that i am always thinking about in the back of my mind. Like, should I say something or should I just let it go?
00:25:01
Speaker
so I'm the same way because I think not every battle is worth fighting. And sometimes you just have to conserve that energy for when it actually does matter. And sometimes it just I just like let it go. But other times where I'm actually feeling like I should speak up or I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight comes in. But that also got me thinking because there were moments I wanted to react in the moment.
00:25:26
Speaker
But then there's a lack of words or lack of ah appropriate responses to diffuse that type of assaults or microaggressions or whatever that you call it. because Well, for first of all, usually those moments caught me off guard because you would not expect the people reacting that way, right? And so it caught me off guard. And secondly, there are situations that we found the table that you don't want to either resume the relationship or depends on the rapport you had with this other person. So oftentimes I find myself in the situation
00:26:04
Speaker
Yes, you wanted to respond to it, but then at that moment you don't really have a word or the proper response for it. Sometimes there isn't a good way to diffuse it or there is, I feel like, you know, sometimes I feel like we're for, as organizational psychologists as a whole, we feel like there needs to be a solution to something. There needs to be an answer or something, way to diffuse something in the moment.
00:26:28
Speaker
Sometimes there isn't a right or best response, and there's nothing wrong with being quiet about it or thinking about it later and reminiscing on it and then probably over reminiscing, ruminate. Sometimes it's not a bad thing to let it go.
00:26:48
Speaker
ah Cue the ah you know the the frozen music.
00:26:59
Speaker
That segues well into the second article, which is about how Asian American professionals use humor or don't use humor to manage racial tension in
Humor in Racial Tension among Asian Americans
00:27:09
Speaker
the workplace. And and so we'll provide a little bit of context about this article. So it is an old research study. It was published back in 2014, but they did a survey among Asian American journalists and they asked them different ways and in which they manage their identity or racial identity in the workplace.
00:27:27
Speaker
And one of the things that they found was that racial humor or like using or being able to joke about one's race was one way that they managed their racial identity with other colleagues of non-Asian backgrounds.
00:27:41
Speaker
They found that race centrality, which is how identified you feel with your race, was negatively correlated with using racial humor. So the more identified you are with your racial identity, so like i'm um I'm Korean American, I'm really, really strongly tied to that, I'm less likely to use racial humor to diffuse a situation.
00:28:05
Speaker
Our audience can't see this, but oh, I was doing these correlations as Jenny was doing. Thank you for that. ahead, Jenny. We should probably like video record one of our sessions and put it online.
00:28:17
Speaker
So I thought that was interesting because like, I don't feel that way because I i feel like I, one of my identities is I'm very strongly identified with my Asian background. I'm not one of those people who's like, I'm just American. You know, I am an Asian American. I'm Korean American.
00:28:31
Speaker
And I also use racial humor to diffuse situations. But I looked at the way that they asked these questions about race or racial humor. And it was very vague. It was about, have you used racial humor in the past to diffuse a situation? And I feel like that could go both ways because there are certain jokes that even Asians say about our group that's denigrating to us versus jokes that we say that poke fun of the stereotype. Yeah. And one of the reasons that they mentioned those people with high racial centrality, meaning they they're self-identified with the certain race, they feel it can be threatening to their self-concept.
00:29:14
Speaker
ah when they use the racial humor. Therefore, it's usually associated with no life satisfaction. And I saw that's interesting because it almost like appeared that the way that they see humor as a negative thing, then more of a positive attitude towards how they so how one sees their identity.
00:29:36
Speaker
I don't know about how this is going to apply today. well Let me just give you some examples of the items they use to measure racial humor. And I think you'll see that there is a problem there because these are a few examples. So makes jokes to show that I am at ease with my race slash ethnicity.
00:29:53
Speaker
And the other one is use humor to draw attention to racial and ethnic issues. And I think the problem here is that this involves, again, jokes that are make you the butt of the joke versus jokes that actually point or make fun of the aggressor or the stereotype. And I think those two things are very different. For example, when I make racial jokes about Asians or Koreans and in general, I would never make jokes that would put my people under the bus. but I might poke fun of a joke that people have about Koreans. So like the dog eating joke, right? Like I might be like, oh my gosh. Because so you know that's not true. Exactly, exactly. How original is that joke? if someone says, oh, Jenny, are you Korean? Oh, do you eat dog? I might like roll my eyes and be like, oh my gosh, that's so original. Do you have anything else? That's using humor to like poke fun of that type of joke. So I don't know. I think if I were to redo the study, I would probably...
00:30:48
Speaker
clarify those three items. Yeah. That's so meta, Jenny, to to take your, your like, you know, and I feel like if we were to even do a study on this, to have a joke about eating dogs, like, i don't know if that would even pass the IRB, but like your response to just like, oh my gosh, it's been like 50 years. Have you not like come with uply any better material yeah to make fun of me and my social identity than this, this?
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah. And it also depends on my audience. So if I i am much more likely to make ah an Asian joke with my Asian peers, especially something like, for example, like if i if I'm on a team of all Asians and we're doing something quantitative, then I'd be like, guys, we got this, we're Asian. you know I might say something like that because again, it's all it's all Asian.
00:31:40
Speaker
But I probably wouldn't say that if it was a mixed group of Asians and non-Asians because again, that might be confirming the stereotype that they have. But Jenny, what you mentioned there got us got also got me thinking is usually when this person has...
00:31:55
Speaker
the sense of humor, then they can even make fun of their own identity. That also speaks to this person is confident that they have a control over the situation. They can read the room. They know who they can tell this joke to, who they can't. So to a certain degree, I do think itself is a a moderator. Like if when someone is already like confident enough and doesn't feel like this, offend themselves and know the room,
00:32:24
Speaker
that's a huge likee moderator than someone who can't even use the puma because they can't even clear with the room or something. yeah Leave it to Echo to bring us back to meta-analyses and moderators and mediators. thank you for that So again, context matters. There's so many different situations where it does work and where it might not work. And honestly, like maybe there were situations where other Asian professionals were like, Jenny, like, why did you, why do you have to make that joke? I mean, hopefully there are, they, they weren't that way,
Intentional Use of Humor in Organizations
00:32:55
Speaker
but.
00:32:55
Speaker
Going back to the original agenda that we set, there is now I'm curious, are there any good tactics you all were using? One is to use humor intentionally in the organization, given all the benefits we just discussed.
00:33:11
Speaker
Two, have you all had the experience in using humor to be a defensive mechanism, saying something to back to someone that might otherwise offend you. But somehow humor helped raise that situation.
00:33:30
Speaker
Repeat that last part again, Echo. In some like a dicey situation where someone might be saying something offensive to you, but you use the humor to diffuse the offensiveness as a way to react.
00:33:48
Speaker
um Gosh, I don't, I don't know. That's a, that's a very tough situation. i feel like when people are unprofessional, is it, and I want to make sure our audience is clear on this, that it's not incumbent upon necessarily.
00:34:06
Speaker
to make it clear for them that what they said or done was offensive. So I try to heat use humor when I'm around folks that I'm comfortable with. I don't wanna use humor as a way to cajole or be a psychophant towards a leader.
00:34:22
Speaker
I feel that comes off potentially as inauthentic. For me to be, or try to be funny around some some people or other people in the workplace, I have to be you know comfortable with them.
00:34:36
Speaker
This is something I, this is a joke I told a little while back on the elevator with some folks who are in HR, but on a different floor. And we talk about reorgs all the time, how it always happens and how we're all about teamwork. And I told them like, look,
00:34:51
Speaker
If a reorg happens, I'm all about teamwork, making things happen. Just the other day, I saw some, you know, two kids pick on this other kid. i i helped i helped out.
00:35:02
Speaker
So it was the worst three-on-one ever. And maybe that landed, maybe it didn't. But it was me trying to convey to other folks that I'm all about teamwork, even if I met, you know, beating up another kid.
00:35:13
Speaker
Maybe we take this one out. But...
00:35:19
Speaker
Okay, now it landed, I think. ah We get a nice little chuckle on the elevator, but it wasn't you know it wasn't for us. It was other folks that I was trying to bring.
00:35:31
Speaker
For me, I was trying to bring a bit of levity towards a situation that was quite serious and can potentially happen um within the workplace. And that and i think the underlying thing is i think what people understand within the organization was that you know it happens a lot.
00:35:50
Speaker
regardless of what happens, we have to persist and move on with it and find little things to to kind of laugh at moving forward. And that's what I was trying to bring. I don't know about using humor to get recognition or trying to get the the spotlight from leaders. I'm not sure that's ah that's a good idea because it we now embark upon a different construct of potentially impression management as well too.
00:36:19
Speaker
Is this person who's so well-read, who does this, put in these applications and policies and ah theories, should that person be like this?
00:36:31
Speaker
you know It gets into some murky areas. I actually agree with that. and And I think that what that reminds me of is When it comes to using humor in the workplace, and I'm also curious to see like where you guys land on this. I was thinking about where do I use humor the most in what situations? And I think I use humor the most in a more self-deprecating way as a way to also share, like create a shared identity, a shared experience.
00:36:59
Speaker
And i you know one example is i was talking to one of my of collaborators who is African-American. And she was talking about this one person she worked with who was always mixing her up for other someone else, another Black employee. And I was going to work with that person. I'm like, oh my goodness. So is that going to happen to me too Probably like, you know, can't tell Asians apart. And that got laugh because then we were like all both bonding on the experience that, hey, when you are ah black or Asian employee in the workplace, oftentimes you get mixed up for other people, especially when you're working with someone who is just not attuned, even though you don't look anything like the other person. i mean, those are just some examples where I use humor to like bond with someone.
00:37:40
Speaker
So I think that that's probably the way I use it the most. I think I gave the example earlier on that where I like to use humor to diffuse the tension in the room, um being this like a third person eyes. But going back to the specific example, I actually haven't found myself being the target of certain like humors themselves, um where I can say like luckily.
00:38:09
Speaker
But I sometimes do joke about this intentionally. So we literally like last week we had, I don't know if we need to take this part out, but... We had a new and chief people officer coming place, it's a white man.
00:38:26
Speaker
And now our C-suite is all white men. i We used to have like a one white woman as like a token. And so we were joking in our own team. I was like, and look at that board. That's just the all white men.
00:38:44
Speaker
um And someone was saying, well, it's better than the tokenism that we're having or fake tokenism or something. We were laughing about it. And this person who made the comment was also a new hire that we just recently had. And somehow that helped us to understand, oh, this person get it This person does know about the situation.
00:39:08
Speaker
So to the point, um Jenny, i I don't know if it's necessarily a joke, but... when you're making comments about those racial related comments, sometimes does helps us to tell who is the person, understand the situation, who is a person can can be your camp.
00:39:29
Speaker
I love that example. I love it. I love the, again, the the meta part of it. It's the, I recognize this, but the worst thing could have been if we attempted diversity and did it the wrong way. And that's my update from our work.
00:39:49
Speaker
ah Well, Duke, mean, the the question goes back to you two. So you use humor in a lot of different ways, but like, what would you say is the most common way you use humor? ah You know, i i don't think i just I don't think about it. It just happens. Okay, so it's so natural.
00:40:06
Speaker
it's It's not, no, it's not natural. It's just like, it's I think this is the way I am. Like I need ways to, you know, diffuse stuff and poke fun at stuff. It doesn't have to be racial. Like it could be just like normal everyday things. For me, it's like, it's it's essential.
00:40:25
Speaker
And i allow others to do the same of me to make fun of something that I made fun of that becomes something kind of very meta, right? So it's, and I think it makes it for a friendlier workplace.
00:40:39
Speaker
So there's this then this back and forth and this relationship that's built based on these little things that we've built up. And I think that that makes work an interesting place to want to be at.
00:40:51
Speaker
Going back to that question, like if you had to choose something between a workplace where people use humor in in a professional way, thoughtful way versus a workplace where there is no humor. There's reason why all three of us said that we would choose the workplace where you can be humorous, where you can make fun of certain things, certain topics, including yourself. Because I don't think I could be, i could work with someone who is all serious and like never laughs, can't take a joke.
00:41:19
Speaker
And maybe that says, I feel like it also potentially develops something else in us as well, too. The ability for us to give feedback to someone who gives a bet who delivers a bad joke.
00:41:30
Speaker
I think that is those are essential skills that are needed ah throughout the organization ah for anyone that's, whether they're an IC, individual contributor, or a leader.
00:41:43
Speaker
it's I think it's quite interesting to see how other people take that feedback as well too, whether they become defensive about it or say, oh yeah, I didn't mean it that way, but it could have came off that way. And I you know apologize and you let's move on and move forward and I'll be more aware of that moving forward.
00:42:04
Speaker
you know ideal That's of course the ideal response that never happens, but it is what it is. So so what's our takeaway for our audience is, you know, humor, yes or no?
00:42:15
Speaker
I think for me, it's a yes. Like if you can inject humor into the workplace, you should. Absolutely.
Conclusion: Integrating Humor Naturally
00:42:20
Speaker
Yes. Like don't force it. Oh yeah. Just let it be natural. Definitely do not force it. Let it come naturally. Yeah. Let it come naturally.
00:42:29
Speaker
And I know we don't have enough time to go into like real world examples, but i mean, as I was preparing for this this podcast or episode, I think one example that came to my mind was Obama. If you look at him when he was in office, he used humor in such a eloquent, self-deprecating, but also intentional way. So audience members,
00:42:52
Speaker
Definitely check out Obama and the way he used humor when he was in office as i guess like a role model of like how you can be competent, warm, thoughtful, but also humorous at the workplace. Do you two think humor is one of a dimension of charisma leadership?
00:43:12
Speaker
Yes. Potentially, yes. You, Echo? I believe so. You're nodding your head. Yes. Yes. That's why I bring it up. Haiku it is. So, um, the episode for this episode, Gemini wrote, write the haiku, uh, laughter breaks the wall, build a bridge to trust and growth.
00:43:35
Speaker
Wit is power shared. Yeah. I like what it said about breaking down walls because it can be a great way to break the ice. Absolutely.
00:43:45
Speaker
Thanks so everyone for listening to another episode of Hidden in Plain Sight. We'll see you all in May. bye Bye, everyone. Bye, everyone.