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00:00:01
Kunal: Interior Design to UX Design at Mariner Finance
24 Plays2 months ago
Kunal is a Lead UX UI designer at Mariner Finance. Before completing the Springboard UX/UI career track certificate in 2022, Kunal worked as a entrepreneur in the field of interior design in India for almost 7 years.
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Transcript
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Another week, another alum. I'm so excited to introduce you to Kunal. Kunal is a lead UX UI designer at Mariner Finance. Before completing the springboard UX UI career track in 2022, Kunal worked as an entrepreneur in the field of interior design in India for almost seven years. Hi, Kunal. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, Alyssa. How are you? I'm great. I'm always excited to get to talk to another UX designer. No no judgments to anyone who's not. But when you put two UXers in a room, like we're just going to have a great time nerding out on UX. Definitely. That goes without say. Certainly. Well, beforehand, you were sharing a story about how you were
00:01:06
Speaker
talking about our profession to someone who didn't know much about it. So I'd love for you to share that now. Right. So um as we discussed before, you know, so he's a family friend and he's still getting into, he's still figuring out his career path. And his parents, they reached out to me asking me that, hey, you know, my son want to get and into something that you have been doing. And they had no idea that I'm a UX designer. All they thought was, you know, this guy's into some tech company. That's all they knew. So it's more like, you know, yeah hey, you know, this guy's an IT, but no, IT's ids a big cloud, you know, there are several things that fall that goes into IT. So I was like, okay, you know, like I need to educate you on what UX UI is. And ah so basically, um he wanted, I think he was his approach was more towards becoming a graphic designer. And he thought that UX designer is more like an a
00:02:04
Speaker
of gradation to graphic designing. That's what I thought. you know So I really had to educate him on you know what UX, what UI, and what graphic is. So yeah so basically, as we know, you know like design definitely is a very essential component. you know like Since you mentioned that you have a background in design, you were a fashion designer. For me, I was an interior designer. right So design, the element is same. right But in UX, I would say it's so only like a one piece of the puzzle. it's you write it's not UX is just not about designing. so Basically, I just had to explain what UX is. like It's a big picture and you got to think about users. you know You got to think about your customers because that is what UX is. It's about user experience. right so You need to think about how someone feels when they interact with something that they're using.
00:03:00
Speaker
It's about making sure that when ah people use your product or your website, they're having a great time doing it, right? And to make it happen, it's just not about picking nice colors, fancy fonts, fancy templates, right? It's also about understanding people, what they need. what they like, ah what their needs are, you know, because ah always say this, you know, like, ah humans are complicated. And i I don't think we can agree more to this, right? Because we are complex. So everyone has a different way of dealing with things. So yeah, that's what I told them, you know, it's a, it's a bunch of combination of different things, you know, design is one part, it's more like making it good, easy to use. But there's also another part which is
00:03:46
Speaker
more like an extensive research involved, like talking to people, understanding what they need, what they want, figuring out how to make it happen, you know, how to organize that information, how to read, like how to mind map things and stuff like that. So yeah, so basically, you know, um yeah, that's what I told him, you know, that UX is like that glue that holds everything together when you're making something for people, you know, when you are making a decision for, other people right so yeah that's what we had a discussion about and I hope he could you know at least get some insights from this and but yeah always do always happy to help anyone who's who feels stuck choosing this particular career track
00:04:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I respect the due diligence. I wish I had done more of that research before. I'm assuming he's looking at college programs. He is, yeah, yeah. I always knew I wanted to be a fashion designer, so I didn't really need to actually talk to people in the industry. But this was also before, I mean, I know this was a family friend, so you had that connection. But I didn't have any family friends in fashion. I grew up in the middle of nowhere in all another state that does not have much fashion going on. And I also just didn't have LinkedIn at the time. I mean, the same thing happened with me, right? Like when I wanted to do UX, like, you know,
00:05:16
Speaker
ah I didn't know anyone like I didn't know any UX designers around you know, but yeah, gladly this time I had LinkedIn and stuff, you know, but yeah still it was pretty overwhelming for me to know the process or what exactly it is and what it looks like and what the future in UX looks like. So yeah. Yeah, ah overwhelming is an understatement. I don't know what about your background in a minute, but I felt that In fashion, there's a lot of gatekeeping. like People didn't want you to discover how to learn or get better. Whereas UX design, everybody wants to help you. There's almost too much information. And it's almost like in fashion, I'm just like, I'm trying to get started. But in UX, it's like, where do I start? I think we v designers, we UX designers, we take um empathy very seriously. So probably that's the reason.
00:06:08
Speaker
you know Well, let's talk about what you were doing. You were an interior designer. What was happening during this part of your career? Well, I think ah so. Basically what happened is it was in 2018 when I moved to the United States out of nowhere. Like there's a history to this story as well. But cutting it short, um I came here in 2018 and yeah, basically, you know, I came here when I was 26, 27, you know, 26, 27, I think most of the most of them are at their ah peak in their career, you know, like they're doing well, they have a good job, you know, everything. And I was stuck. I was figuring out that now what the hell should I do here? You know, now I'm here in the US. What's next? Like, you know, I could have continued my career in interior designing. And I even applied for jobs, you know, like, of course I did, like, why would I want to switch?
00:07:05
Speaker
But then a very honest person or a very, yeah, someone from a company, they reached out to me and they're like, hey, can we get on a call? I was like, yeah, of course, you know, like talk to me about it. And then she's like, you know, this degree that you got from India, it's not going to land you any job here in the US. I was like, OK. what do I do about it? And she's like, you know, you need to go to a college to a four year course and then do some internship and this and that. I was like, no, I cannot do that. You know, I cannot give five more years to detail designing because I've already done that. I've worked for seven years and I cannot repeat that again, you know. And then obviously, you know, at some point I was I was in Kansas that time when I came here, I was in Kansas City and I always had the span of moving to California Bay Area because my sister lives
00:07:54
Speaker
And I was like, you know, might as well, if I'm going to go to California Bay Area region and to the Silicon Valley, then it's an IT hub, right? So why not explore something within that space? And that's when I joined a community college in Kansas, right? So the, the course which was offered was called, uh, associates degree in digital marketing. That's what the a certificate was or the diploma balls. And I enrolled myself. And in those two years, I learned everything, you know, like digital marketing, analytics, like the data analytics, ah UX, UI, coding, programming, ah SEO, everything. So I learned everything in those two years, you know, bits and pieces of each thing. And after that, I was done with my college, I graduated, I had a
00:08:47
Speaker
portfolio, but that portfolio was not that promising that would land me into a job. So I definitely knew that I would have to study more, you know, like I need a very strong portfolio to get into the competitive job industry job market. And as I get right after I graduated, I think COVID happened, you know, so again, it was a roller coaster for me. Now again, I was like sitting home, I was still trying to figure out, you know, like ah where do I begin with now you know like it's cool with the marketers job market had almost crashed you know with layoffs and stuff like that and it was really impossible for or or entry-level UX designer to get a job and so I was like okay you know what I'm gonna take it easy ah and see what happens and I think randomly one day I stumbled upon this ah
00:09:41
Speaker
on an ad on Google that said, you know, 100% job guarantee. And I took a look at it and it said Springboard. I was like, okay, this look this company is based in San Francisco. I read a little bit about it, but still I was not, you know, I was not 100% confident that if I want to enroll into something like this. ah And then through LinkedIn, I got to know that a family friend who who was a former ah career advisor at Springboard, she was in my LinkedIn, basically. So I reached out to her and she's like, yeah, I work for, I work for Springboard. I was like, wow, I just like, you know, read about it. And then I would like to have some more insights, you know, that what does it like what the structure looks like or what exactly this program is. And one day we scheduled a call, she walked me through all the prospects, the curriculum,
00:10:31
Speaker
and everything that Springboard has to offer. And I think her pitch was pretty strong. So yeah, it actually motivated me to enroll into this UX UI program at Springboard. And that's how I began my journey at Springboard. That's incredible. But also, what was up with that recruiter? Right. So here, no, no, I'll tell you. So what happens is oh architecture in TDR ah It varies from region to region or countries to countries, right? It's all based on materials, foundations, and everything. You know, like houses here in the US, they're built on wood, you know, like not the foundation, but the overall structure, you know? Whereas in India, it's a lot of bricks and mortar and stuff like that. Like everything is different. Like even in interiors, it's pretty different. Like the standard kitchen counter height,
00:11:26
Speaker
in America is 36 inches, whereas in India it's 32 inches, right? So it also depends. So basically this entire term is called anthropometry. That's what we call it, right? So it's more like a user experience in interior designing. Let's call it that way, you know? the height of the table here in the US is maybe two inches taller than in India, right? So everything changes, right? So based on that, your mind changes, the way you design things, or everything changes. So that was really essential. ah Yeah, it's really a shit essential when it comes to designing those furniture pieces. Okay, well, thank you for explaining that to me because I often forget interior design is a little bit more, I mix up interior your design and interior decorating.
00:12:14
Speaker
Yeah, those those are two different pieces. Yeah, I would say, I would say UX is indeed a designing and UI is indeed a decorating. Okay. Yep. So yeah. Okay. But you found an inconvenience. Yeah. Exactly, convenient place. I didn't want to really go to college and do a five, four-year degree course. And indeed, designing again I was not ready for it. like No, you didn't want to go into a ton of debt. Yeah, not even physically, mentally, and financially. Let's call it that way. Because it's it's a very, very expensive course. you know It's a very expensive degree. So I was not ready for it. no i I don't blame you. so But I do love in that moment of just
00:13:02
Speaker
frustration you were able to find something else in a new path. Exactly, yeah. I know you met this person from Springboard who gave you a good pitch, but was was it truly about UX and UI that thought this is a career path I want to go down? Because it sounds like you did want to continue with your design. I did, right? No, but then like after interior design, as I said, you know like I did a two-year degree course in Kansas, right the diploma course that I talked about. and in that course I learned everything but um you know like um when you have this so capstone projections colleges yeah and you need to show show something like specialize in one zone or in one area and that's where I did a project for UXUI and related to UXUI with a what do you call it it was a capstone it was meant to be a real industry project working with some in
00:13:59
Speaker
from Kansas City, like, you know, a smaller company, like a startup company, and I worked for them and I worked with them to help them build their website. So that's when I was like, okay, you know, this is interesting. I know I can do this. ah I was able to understand what UX is, what UI is, but I just needed a little bit of push, you know, to really get into this industry. Yeah. And that's where Springboard helped me. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So when you were in the course, I think you were probably in the course around the same time, but was there anything that you did outside the course that helped you? or I personally felt the course itself was pretty sufficient. It was, but I definitely went outside the box. like I think I accelerated pretty quick. So ah it was I think it it was right up to the first capstone.
00:14:54
Speaker
ah If I remember correctly, the first capstone is like you get to choose your own topic and you yeah you get to work on the way you want to, right? Basically. ah So I think my first project had lasted for like almost two and a half months. ah But it was a pre-detailed project, a lot of research, a lot of extensive research, I would say, you know a lot of interviews, ah personas, surveys, et cetera. And after that, I created a very beautiful project, I would say. you know And the project was called Hike Bud. So basically, ah people who are looking for hiking partners. So that was my project. And after my first project, um it was the last day you know where I had to get on a call with my mentor to review the project before he's before I submitted to the, I don't know what to call it, to the duty.
00:15:50
Speaker
who checks your projects. Yeah, they implemented that after I graduated. Yeah, so yeah, because so basically once my yeah once my professor reviews, my mentor reviews, my case study, I would have to go out and submit it and four duty members and therefore would review it. that That's how it was. Yeah, I say i yeah i don't really remember. and As I submitted, he asked me that, would you like to work for my company you know as an intern? And I was like, yeah, of course. like you know like Why not? Why would I miss out on that opportunity? right yeah And yeah, so like you know no thoughts given, you know no second thoughts. I was like, of course, you know I would love to do that. And then I was being offered an internship in UXUI in this firm.
00:16:40
Speaker
and And then the rest of the projects, you know, like project two, three, four, I did not follow springboard's curriculum, but instead work for my mentor. And I had those projects submitted to springboard because they allowed it. My mentor talked to the director and everyone, and they were like, yeah, you know, if Kunal is going to be working with you, and, uh, since you, since you'll be knowing, you know, what he's working on. then people allowed him to submit the projects that you know he works with you on. So I did not really worked on the curriculum, curriculum you know like not the projects mentioned in the curriculum. yeah I worked the way, I followed the steps, but I did not submit the oh those projects that were listed. Certainly. Yeah. And also getting that real world experience, like why would you turn that down? those lie because right so
00:17:32
Speaker
10 times more valuable. So that's definitely um what? Yeah. Okay. So you stepped outside of the box. That was very much. What, what, if you don't mind me asking, and if you're allowed to share what, what company? Uh, okay. My mentor was Mr. Phil and the company is called future future studios. Okay. Yeah. So he's based in ah Poland or London. I think when, He was transitioning, basically. He was in Poland and he moved to London. ah Yeah, so I'm not sure if he's still a mentor at zoom board or not. But yeah, I'm in touch with him. And ah I used to proudly tell everyone, you know, like, hey, you know, my mentor is Mr. Defend. Like, the people who like Mr. Defend, like, ah yeah, I know he's my duty. I was like, yeah, he's a duty, but he's my mentor, you know. So yeah, so I was really proud, you know, and yeah, really grateful to have him because I think he
00:18:30
Speaker
He helped me shape my career in UX, so definitely. Keep your careers in undersea as well. Yeah, definitely. Very grateful to have him. Yeah, that is wonderful. um So okay eventually, you would run out of projects at Springboard. I'm assuming you probably stayed on interning for him, but you're clearly at another job now. So what was your job hunt like when you finished Springboard? oh I think securing a job, I mean, obviously it was not easy, but since Springboard offered ah career coaches and you know we had career advisors, the journey got a little bit easier, I would say, you know like navigating through those, ah like how to create your LinkedIn profile or you know what how your resume resume should look like, you know all those things that you see upfront.
00:19:29
Speaker
right, like preparing for your mock interviews, negotiation and so skills like those, you know, which you're not even aware of, like, you know, they would send out some questionnaires, how to answer it, how to present your portfolios and stuff like that. So that part of the job and was easy, I will say, or not easy, but at least sorted, you know, like someone was there to help you out. The only other thing you had to figure out on your own was companies that you want to work for, you know, So you have to go to LinkedIn or whatever platform, look for job openings, approach them, maybe write a cover letter if required. ah Yeah, talk to people. A lot of networking happened actually, you know, offline, not online. ah Sorry, online, not offline because it was still COVID, you know. right
00:20:18
Speaker
ah And I think with that also, I would say a very important aspect to interviewing was my portfolio, you know, because what happens is this is what I have seen. This is what I've op observed. 100 students enrolled into XYZ bootcamp, you know, 100 students are being offered the same curriculum, same projects. Like maybe I said project number one was you choose your own topic, but two, three, four, maybe fourth was also like a real industry project, but like two and three were like five topics and out of five, you got to choose one, right? And you've got to work on it. So let's say out of a hundred students of 99 or 90 students also worked on two similar case studies. They're not going to stand out, you know, that the portfolio is not going to be unique. And that is what the recruiter, like that is what the recruiter
00:21:09
Speaker
Yeah, recruiters don't want to see they don't want to see repetitive stuff, you know, they want to see what unique you got, you know, what you can bring to the table. Like, you know, because they're really bored of seeing that bike project. And, ah you know, that there was an eight week, sorry, eight days spring, spring project or something that they really don't want to see that, you know, yeah, that spring project is everywhere. Yeah, and that's what I observed, you know, so it was not that like, I remember I had to interview for at least seven companies before I got into Mariner Finance. So yeah, before Mariner, there were seven companies that I i had to interview. And oh yeah the process was pretty much the same, you know, they would start with the phone screening and then the scheduling interview, first round, second round.
00:21:57
Speaker
And many, like I remember two companies, they gave me a case study to do, you know, and they're like, we're giving it like 24 to 36 hours and you gotta work on this case study and submit it. I was like, okay, like, am I being paid for this? Yeah. Good. What's your, now that you're safely at a job, like what's your opinion on companies asking you to do a take home contract? Really depends how much you're willing to work for that company, first of all, you know, so it's more like a personal choice. And obviously, you don't you go you you need to get a sense of the pay scale, know if it's worth your time. you know And if you think that you know everything is working in your favor, then yeah, I mean, why not? you know And if nothing works out, then it maybe just take an ex experience and just learn from it. So yeah, nothing bad in it. I mean i did it as well. It's OK. Not every company operates the same way. And not every company follows the same pattern
00:22:55
Speaker
Like if you have a role of a UX designer, not every company would have the same list that you need to work on, you know, every company works differently. That's what I'm saying. Sure. Yeah. And I guess that's how they're evaluating the candidate. Exactly. i During my job hunt, um a company gave me a take home assignment and I asked for a mentor session. It was a one-on-one mentor session. The mentor refused to help me with it. He was like, do not tell this company no. I needed a job at some point. I did have enough time.
00:23:39
Speaker
i you know before things went downhill. right It was like a big hard swallow to say no to this company. Thankfully, things worked out. But yeah, I know that's a very controversial topic. Right. Yeah. I mean, I agreed. I was like, yeah, why not? You know, at least I'll get a sense of what your company is doing. So that was another thing, you know, like, because if they give you something, it's related to what they have been working on. And so at least even you get a sense of, you know, what they've been working on or how it operates, you know, what it looks like, will you be comfortable working in this environment or not? So you, you pretty much get a sense of it, you know, even in the 24 hours, it's pretty strong, you know, you, you know, what the company is like. Yeah, that's definitely when we look at it. And you eventually got your job now. Is Mariner Finance your first job post internship?
00:24:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, then I was working with Rafael after the internship program. So even after my springboard career track, I was still working with him. And after that, I was still I was also interviewing, you know, for a company based in the US, as I mentioned, his company is in London. So yeah, I was also looking for a full time job in the US. So yeah, right, right. Okay, so what is, um, What's the day in the life at your job now? It looks like you were pulled in as a lead or were you promoted? Well, I started as in basically, you know, UX, you are a designer. And I think this so was just a couple of months back when they added lead to my ah job title. So I was like, oh, yeah, a little bit of achievement there. Yeah. So day to day work life is, see, like I would say like, you know, UX designers,
00:25:25
Speaker
I mean, I don't know how much you're going to relate to it, but we don't have work every day. I don't want to out myself. i would things ebb and flow There are days where I'm just, you know, doing ad hoc work, like updates for them, um like actively pulling together user flows, reading. Right. It really ah um varies. Like there's no typical day. There's no typical day, exactly. And that's pretty much the same for me, right? Because we are dependent on developers, the devs, you know, so like, you know, it's ah it's a flow, like one goes to another, second goes to third, third goes to fourth. So yeah, but when I have work, that's a lot of work.
00:26:06
Speaker
ah But my day-to-day life, I think it's um since I lead the team, I do have a lot of responsibility you know when it comes to an extensive ah oh market analysis or competitive analysis, because many finance have direct competitors and we compete with 15 financial brands, 15 financial companies as well. right So it's really important for me to take a look at what other companies are doing. So the very first thing that I do every morning is we use a tool called Compat and it's more like a competitive analysis tool. So the very first thing I do is I go to that particular software and take a look if any of the other 14 companies have updated anything on their website, you know, and if they've updated anything, what is that? And is it going to impact our conversion rates or not, you know, so stuff like that, small, small stuff. And there are a couple of requests coming from IT, you know, like,
00:27:01
Speaker
oh like something broke you know like from quality assurance you know the key way team that you know something is not working I have my own suggestions ah and then there are reviews right because we are in financial form so we have oh we have our mobile apps like on Android and iOS, right? Both. So every Friday, I go through the reviews, the customer reviews, if there are any negative reviews or zero rating or one rating or two rating, then I take a ah look at it, you know, that what can be solved, you know, what's bothering. I
00:27:40
Speaker
I work on a software called Full Story that allows us to know what our customers are doing on the website. you know So it's more like we can see them whatever they are doing live. So we can track them, like what they're clicking, what's going wrong, what's bothering them, what's frustrating, what happens when they click here. So you know, all those small, small steps, you know and based on that, be ah yeah we come up with some hypothesis, you know like what the problem is, what the solution could look like. And we discussed this with the broader team. And yeah, we just work on it. you know So UX comes later, I would say. It comes way later. All these things take a lot of time. And then we start with mind mapping.
00:28:20
Speaker
and building out a customer journey, use cases, what it's going to look like. And once everything gets approved, that is when you know we go into Figma. Before that, I don't open Figma. So yeah so you know lot there's a lot of also misconception. you know like so So someone also asked me, you're a UX designer, so do you use Figma a lot? like No, it's not necessary that if I'm a UX designer, I'm only i'm only meant to use Figma. No, there are other 100 softwares that a UX designer needs to use. Figma is just a tool that helps you build a prototype. you know It's not the end. like you know It's just not meant for UX. A lot of other softwares that you need to go through, you know you need to learn. ah But yeah i mean yeah, if you ask me, ah that's what a typical day looks like. And sometimes it's pretty chill.
00:29:12
Speaker
That was a great insight and you know, every company is a little different, but that's fascinating. I love this tool that you mentioned compiled. I had never heard of it. Yeah, it's very powerful. Yeah. So now that you're a lead and you're, it sounds like you're a manager, you're managing other people. Yes. Right. Yeah. So was that something that you aim to do? Because like management to me, that's one thing to be a UX, UI, design, but to be a manager of people, that's a whole other skill set. I mean, I don't, yeah, I don't, I don't really, I'm not really a manager. I mean, I do have, uh, people working under me, right? But, uh, like, yeah, but but I'm not a manager manager yet, but
00:29:55
Speaker
I'm working with my, so basically our company is structured this way, you know, UX, UI right now, it falls under the marketing department. So usually what happens, bigger companies UX, UI is a different department within the digital marketing thing, right? But ours is inside the marketing. So what we're trying to work on is what I'm trying to do with my manager is they are maybe next few years, they're trying to I have a new department which will be the UX UI and then I'll be the, you know, in charge or I'll be the manager of that particular department and then I can, you know, structure it the way I want to, like, if I need UX devs or if I don't, you know, right, so it's different. Yeah, so I'm telling you, it all depends on companies, you know, it's it's different everywhere.
00:30:48
Speaker
It does. No, I was just asking out curiosity because I know I definitely work with people who don't want to be managers and other people are interested in it. So I just was curious to know if that was an interest of yours or where you saw that your career was going in that direction or maybe you just fell into it. Right. Maybe I just fell into it. To maybe be that way. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I think it's also more like a I always had this so leadership skill. It's pretty natural. So wherever I go. Yeah. Yeah, some people are just naturally. Yeah, exactly. So workhorse or yeah, it just depends on Yeah, I, I think that's how it happened. Yeah, it was not intentional.
00:31:38
Speaker
It just happened. but or Yes, naturally. Well, so with that, you know you kind of gave us a hint at about where things are going. But where do you want to see yourself go in the future? In the future? Well, of course, you know, I see myself continuing ah to grow and evolve as a UX, your designer. And as I mentioned, you know, that I am envisioning working with my manager, you know, that at some point we, Merida Finance has its own UX UI department and at some point I get to lead that department. So that's where I'm working towards, that's what my goal is right now. But apart from that, ah definitely you know willing to offer mentorship to students who are transitioning from a different career because I've been there, you have been there.
00:32:34
Speaker
pretty much everyone is going through that. And I really wish to, you know, help out students who are looking to transition. So yeah. Yeah, you should try to be a springboard mentor. Yeah, of course. I mean, yeah, I mean, yeah, definitely. That's something I can, you know, and consider. Yeah. Thoughts for the future. yeah Well, yeah with all this being said, um is there anything we didn't get to talk about today that you'd like to share? ah Not I mean as I mentioned before you know I do have a lot of students approaching me that you know they feel stuck. So be ah okay now this is very interesting you know I had like two or three students they they have enrolled in a UX master program at some university across the US and
00:33:31
Speaker
It's a pretty renowned university, I would say, right? I'm not going to name it. It is pretty good. From the same university? Two of them from the same and one from a different one. Okay. And surprisingly, these two days, in spite of having a good solid portfolio, they're not getting jobs. And I was like, okay, you know what? Like, can you just forward me your resume it and your portfolio? And you're not going to believe they were alike. They were all the same? Very same. the structure same, the content same, the steps same. I was like, dude, no one is going to hire you. like you know like Think out of the box. You know you need to do something unique. like What is this? like These recruiters, they review 100 portfolios each day. If they don't see anything that might interest them, then your resume, they won't even consider. you know
00:34:25
Speaker
like not resume the portfolio like resume is same i understand but portfolio could be made in a different way you know it's really i think that's the best thing you can do to yourself you know you you need to invest a lot of time to showcase your portfolio you know that's where you can actually show your skills your experience and everything you know so always tell you know that portfolio it's a way of, it's an art of storytelling, because that is something you forward it to the recruiters, you know, that's something they're gonna take a look at. And yeah, so yeah, you know, I really ask everyone, you know, like focus on your portfolio, focus focus on your case studies, you know, it's not even about portfolio or making it look fancy or colorful or, you know, has to be pretty simple. But it
00:35:11
Speaker
But it depends how curated your content is. you know Like, do you does your case study make sense? you know we we don't like Recruiters don't want to see like, you did the first step, then you did this, you did that, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, no. Even if you have step one to five, they're fine with it. But at least you got to make sure that if step one was a problem, step five is the solution. you know and not like step one, two, three, four, five, six is just problems and problems and hypothesis and you know like they don't want that. you know like They want to see what you can bring to the table. you know If I give you a problem, can you bring me the solution and how quickly can you bring it to me? you know so yeah That's where I think students get really stuck. It's funny when you say this. um I was talking to my recruiter and
00:36:03
Speaker
we It was just this time um where hiring was going nuts, like back in 2020. And she said saw three portfolios that were exactly alike. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, was it really like a scam or is it just these adversities? Yeah. You know, that's how the program, ah how the programs have been structured, you know, because everyone wants to take a shortcut. like you know and students probably they don't have time or they don't have I mean I would not necessarily say that they don't have skills but you know at some point everyone has to step out of the comfort zone so I also encourage these students you know who reach out to me that if you are if someone asks you that hey are you willing to do an internship for me for free I would say go take it you know I know it sounds rough but go take it for a month you learn a lot
00:36:59
Speaker
And that particular thing that you're going to learn, put it in your portfolio and present it the way you want to present, you know, that's where that that's also like an act, you know, like you have to pivot it that way. You know, that's what I did but with my first job, you know, because since I got a chance to work with Rafael. Yeah, I, yeah, I created a story out of it, you know, that what happened, how I got into it, how projects came in. how I started leading the project. So, you know, like take it as an opportunity, I would say, because it's really hard to get into the industry. It's getting competitive day by day. Do you think there is some criteria? Like, I think there are are a lot of people that want you to work for free and sometimes those opportunities are good, but then there's some people that are just, we just want free labor and because we aren't good people.
00:37:52
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. I mean, see, essentially, you're not signing a contract with them, right? If you if you feel at the second day that you know they're making me work for the free end, it's not adding any value to my portfolio, then yeah, just quit. you know As you said, you know not every company is the same and not everyone is the same. But if you feel like, you know hey, know you I see some potential in this company you know that whatever they are offering, I am learning something, it's adding some value, ah then yeah continue and if not then yeah quit you know you don't have to sign yeah that's another thing don't sign free contracts but never yeah I don't sign contracts basically I would say you know yeah because you are a new exercise now you can always work
00:38:35
Speaker
independently. Well, I always think if someone's asking work for free and you sign a contract, if they're not paying you anything, I can't imagine they have tons of money to take you to court. Definitely. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. You know, it has to be for a very short term. Please don't, please don't come for me if I'm wrong. No. So basically what I'm saying, you know, any which ways you are investing a lot of time doing your job hard, right? So might as well just work for someone in that time. You Essentially, you're just going to learn, right? That's what I'm saying. You don't have to work eight hours. I'm not saying that you've got to work for eight hours, but maybe like part-time, you know, like tell them that, you know, if you have something, I can work for you for two, three hours. Basically, you're just adding something to a portfolio. You are adding something called as a real industry project, and that's what recruiters want to see. They're not interested in those case studies. They want to see the real data, like what's happening in the market, what's happening in the real world.
00:39:29
Speaker
So yeah yeah, I know there's a lot of resources that connect you to that connect students to nonprofit. So it's not so much working for free, but volunteering. Yeah. Yeah. There's just a fancy town. I have done some work that way. Yeah. But yeah, but since I and everyone's journey is different into X, you know, so
00:39:55
Speaker
It is and that's really kind of the reason why I started this podcast was because I learned so much from having one-on-one conversations with people and parts of their stories that worked for me and it's really hard as we were talking about this before we started recording to get a one-on-one interview with people. so I felt this was a great passive way to get a lot of these stories out there. So I could, we UXers say, reduce some clicks and some typing of messages to get these stories and see how they can work for us. Definitely. I think networking, collaborating is really important. like not a Not only for UX designers, but any professional in this world, I would say, yeah.
00:40:40
Speaker
I agree. And speaking of networking, are you open to listeners connecting with you on social media? Yes, definitely. Great. And I'm guessing LinkedIn. LinkedIn would work for me, yes. And with that, would you be able to spell your name so people are adding the correct Kunal? Sure. It's Kunal. K-U-N-A-L. Last name is Shet. S-H-H. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story. And for everyone listening, if you have any questions for now or myself, or would like to be featured as a guest, we are looking for alum. Please email me at alumnipodcast at springboard.com.