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Process Engineer to Software Engineer
74 Plays9 months ago
Mike, a former Process Engineer in the automotive industry, is now a Full Stack Developer for O3 Inc. He shares how acquiring new skills opens up new opportunities and breaks down how specific skills from his first engineering role transferred to his current one. He also emphasizes the importance of not taking rejection personally and shares his own journey to understanding this perspective.
Questions for Mike or myself that could be answered on a future episode, please email me at [email protected].
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Transcript
Introduction to Michael's Journey
00:00:15
Speaker
Hey everyone, welcome to another episode of Life After Tech Bootcamp. It's Wednesday, we're getting into the new year and I have a whole host of incredible stories lined up and today is no different. So today I'd like to introduce you to Michael. Michael graduated from BYU with a manufacturing engineering degree. He worked in the automotive industry first at Toyota GOSI. I hope I pronounced that right.
00:00:44
Speaker
Then at Tesla as a process engineer and automation processes such as six axis robots, PLC systems and embedded systems.
Transition to Tech: From Engineering to Developer
00:00:56
Speaker
You went on to earn the springboard data science engineering certification and now works as a full stack developer for O3, Inc. using Python and JavaScript frameworks.
00:01:09
Speaker
But most importantly, he's a husband and father of two who looks for opportunities to serve his local community. Michael, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Good to be here. Thank you. Yes, I know. You were actually my first recording of the new year. Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah. Do you have any opportunities coming up to serve your local community? Oh, yeah. I mean, this is an opportunity right here.
00:01:39
Speaker
I like the I like the springboard. I enjoyed springboard platform. I enjoyed the community around it, especially the mentor aspect of springboard. But, yeah, in general, I like, you know, if there's opportunities to help out in the community, whether it's like a service opportunity or at my work, I work right in between
00:02:06
Speaker
a nonprofit organization that serves the community through food and through clothing. And it's just kind of fun to be in that environment. But yeah, I like the springboard community. I like tech in general because a lot of things are open source and people work together to solve problems that are common. But this is a great opportunity for me. Hopefully I have something to say that's of value to somebody who's
00:02:37
Speaker
you know, thinking about kind of jumping into tech or, you know, so, yeah, this is a great opportunity for me as well. Certainly. Well, I think it's really interesting. We had another guest, Ashley, who was saying that everyone is not everybody, but a lot of people are really looking to get into tech.
00:02:58
Speaker
that saying just where our society is going with careers and motivations and things like that.
The Growing Necessity of Tech Skills
00:03:06
Speaker
So I think everybody's story has some validity to it. I know when I was searching for paths to get into the industry, I am in UX design. I would constantly talk to people about how they got to where they are. And I kind of tailored what they did to work for me. So I think
00:03:29
Speaker
that compiling of stories and just that constant listening is always beneficial. Kind of on that theme, I'm also realizing, you know, tech, it's meshed with everything now. I think jobs used to be more specific to one thing. But now, I mean, you're using tech, no matter where you're going, especially with engineering, it's becoming this kind of meshed thing.
00:03:57
Speaker
because there's programming involved with engineering and there's physical structural things with engineering. But tech is kind of creeping into every aspect of any job. If you have tech skills, it's probably going to help. So yeah, I definitely see that. And everybody kind of has a different story. And yeah, it's just a good
00:04:23
Speaker
It's a good field to know stuff about. So yeah, it's awesome. Certainly. I definitely can relate to that. When I initially thought I wanted to be a project manager, I thought, oh, all project management's the same. I can just go from project manager from interior design to tech. And when I was looking at the specs for the jobs, I was like, what's this sauna?
00:04:52
Speaker
How much HTML do I really need to know? And I think back and cringe about how naive I was and how much I really had to adapt. So to your point, it's not okay just to know Microsoft Word anymore or Excel. There's so many other programs that we have to be
00:05:12
Speaker
knowledgeable of to kind of prove what we can get some of these jobs, which is scary. And, but also it's just, what are you going to do about it? It helps. It just helps to have whatever info you have. Um, but yeah, no need to get overwhelmed, I think, but it just helps. It's good. Um, it's good stuff. I think we're on the same page with that.
00:05:38
Speaker
Certainly. Well, let's go back to the beginning before you are where you are now. So tell me about what happened before you decide to get involved with that engineering before you even maybe you knew about springboard. What was happening?
Discovering Data Analysis and Embracing Flexibility
00:05:54
Speaker
Um, so I was in the manufacturing engineering field, uh, specifically with automotive, uh, equipment. And, um, I was fortunate and blessed to, um, kind of work on
00:06:06
Speaker
automated processes where there's programming involved. It wasn't necessarily web development, of course, programming, but it was programming, you know, ones and zeros and making things work appropriately. And I just kind of noticed within the industry, just the importance of data and we're kind of moving into a data centric
00:06:32
Speaker
world where so much is just being processed and so many decisions are being made. And I was starting to kind of on my own figure out how to do a data analysis stuff based on kind of big data sources, but I was having a lot of trouble making sure that the sources of that data was correct.
00:06:57
Speaker
And that's kind of what led me to springboard, because I was just doing Google searches of what would be the best way to kind of learn this quickly. And springboard, the data engineering, I don't know if it's, I think they've kind of added different certificates to get, but at the time that they had the data engineering, I don't know if they still have it, I think they do, I'm not sure, but at the time it was like,
00:07:24
Speaker
I was going down the list and it was everything I wanted to learn about data pipelines. And I realized it could be a fast way to kind of get those basic things understood. And then if I could get that info, I'd be able to kind of go leaps and bounds when I was in that job field. That being said,
00:07:53
Speaker
After I got the certification, I was blessed to kind of have other opportunities unfold. And now I'm a web developer, so I switched fields. I originally wasn't looking to do that. I was looking to just stay in the automotive industry. But I think that's another blessing of kind of gaining those skills is your opportunities kind of
00:08:23
Speaker
open up a little bit. Certainly. I have some questions here. I'm so curious because you said you were Googling how to learn all of this quickly. And I get that path of least resistance mindset. So I'm curious, when you were thinking about learning everything, and I don't even know what everything means to you,
00:08:48
Speaker
But were you thinking, I need to get a master's? Do I just need to watch YouTube videos? I knew Springboard kind of had everything you wanted to learn. But what was that discovery process like for you? Yeah. So the way it worked was, so throughout my career, I've always wanted to, I always try to mingle with the people who are trying to solve the hardest problems.
00:09:18
Speaker
because it's just good to kind of be in that realm to kind of know what's going on. So when I was at Tesla, I mean, they're very data driven. And so I was able to sit in a conversation with guys that were, you know, and the world's becoming more cross-functional. So I was allowed to go visit with different teams in different areas. So I was sitting in,
00:09:48
Speaker
one meeting specifically where everything went over my head. I was like, I have no idea. And I wrote down these different things that I needed to learn. So that's kind of the genesis of why I searched. And yeah, I searched for master's degrees. I searched for different
00:10:12
Speaker
I searched for all sorts of things. But I really wanted to know what they were talking about. I wanted to be in the room. I wanted to be able to understand. And it just happened to be that the springboard was the right one. And to have a certificate assigned with that knowledge base was something that I decided would be important. Because sometimes it's hard to prove, hey, I have these skills.
00:10:42
Speaker
Sometimes you can do it, sometimes you can't, but in my situation, I wanted a certification that said, hey, this guy can do that. So that's kind of the genesis. I was in a meeting, and these guys were talking about things that I had no idea what was going on. So that's when I started. And I also really liked the flexibility of Springboard, where
00:11:09
Speaker
You know, it took me several months longer than the six months. And that was just because I spent less time every week on the certification because I had other things going on. So that flexibility really helped me. Whereas if you go to a traditional master's class, you know, every Thursday you're going to have an assignment due. And if you don't do it, then, you know, you're not going to pass at the end of the semester type of thing.
00:11:34
Speaker
Yeah. And like with masters, I know when I was looking into that, I would have to wait, you know, eight months to start the course.
00:11:42
Speaker
I was thinking today just how archaic our higher education system is. Not to completely say it's the wrong, it's doing everything wrong, but if I wanted to pursue something, I don't wanna, it's what, January? If I wanted to start a program, I might be able to start in the summer semester, but I'd most likely have to wait for the fall. That's ridiculous. That's like a year of my life that I could be making money or
00:12:12
Speaker
moving ahead with literally anything. So I do see your point in that. But I'm very curious to know, you know, okay, so you're in the course, you found this is exactly what you want to learn. What parts of the course did you feel are helping you today? What? I know you said before you really loved your mentor. What worked for you in the course? Yeah, the mentor was huge.
00:12:41
Speaker
He was from my alma mater BYU and he's a high caliber professional 16 years of experience in programming all sorts of different things and Data's he was a data guru And he was just a really nice guy so
00:13:03
Speaker
It was really exciting when it was my alma mater because that told me that springboard put some thought into it, at least, you know, putting, giving me a mentor. And so that was huge. I also liked the way that the info was structured on springboard and it's at your own pace. And one of the reasons I wanted to start the springboard originally is because you can go faster if you want.
00:13:31
Speaker
which is ironic because it ended up being longer. But it's your own convenience. It's your own thing. You visit with your mentor once a week. And I can't speak for other, I don't know how other people's mentors were, but mine was amazing. And I actually still message them every once in a while. And I stopped springboard 52 years ago, I think.
00:13:59
Speaker
But yeah, I'm friends with them on LinkedIn, and he was excited about the job I got. But to answer your question as well, the Capstone project, I think they called it, was huge. And I really like how they, I like the focus on real world things. So when you, you know, a certification is good, but on top of that, to have a program running,
00:14:27
Speaker
that works, that you can show people, hey, this is what I did and this is how you do it. It's just good to have, you know, when you're interviewing or, you know, you want to have something as tangible as possible to prove. And if you're talking Xs and Os to, you know, an interviewer, then they're going to know. So, you know, it's kind of both. You need the certification and that means something.
00:14:57
Speaker
You need to have a project that works and you understand how it works, you know, and that's another aspect. So, yeah, those were some good things. What else? Yeah, I mean, yeah, the flexibility of Springboard and the mentor and the capstone project. I'd say those were the things that I liked most about it.
00:15:22
Speaker
Certainly. And this might be a bit of an innocent question because the engineering world, I know like saying engineer is kind of like saying doctor. It's so many different ways to be an engineer. Are there any key transferable skills or similarities that you think kind of helped you navigate through these different roles?
Interrelation of Programming and Engineering
00:15:47
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It's really fascinating.
00:15:52
Speaker
how similar tech works. So we're all familiar with the computer, and we kind of know how it works. But in manufacturing, there's something called Programmable Logic Controller. And it's essentially a computer that picks up relays from physical objects. And you have a human
00:16:18
Speaker
computer interface to interface with this computer that has sensors to read actual objects. And that's how a manufacturing system works. If you can envision in your mind a manufacturing system of any sort where you have objects going down a line and then things happen, like a robot picks it up or it goes down a different shoot, that's all being controlled by a computer. It's just a specialized computer. So I was
00:16:47
Speaker
fortunate because the way that your computer works on your desktop is your mouse has a driver and it's interacting through a bus system. And that's exactly how a PLC works. So yes, whenever you have tech stuff, it's going to mesh over. And the way that you problem solve in engineering, it's going to be similar
00:17:18
Speaker
The problem solving process is similar wherever you go. For me specifically, data engineers are software developers and interacting with them in the automotive industry was a huge game changer for me because there's this mess between physical objects that you're trying to keep track of in a manufacturing setting and then
00:17:45
Speaker
ones and zeros that you're trying to correlate with those objects. And the data engineers were all about correlating physical information with interfaces that a manager or somebody could look at on a screen to know, okay, we have this many parts, that many are bad, this many past. So, yeah, that's kind of,
00:18:13
Speaker
It all kind of intermeshes. The skills intermeshed throughout different systems. And I can't see how these skills wouldn't help in any other industry as well, just kind of knowing how it all works. Like if you're an accountant, it would help. If you're, I think it would. It could help you understand and pick the right software to use. It could help you troubleshoot the software.
00:18:43
Speaker
And so that's my opinion. But especially with engineering, there's definitely becoming a kind of a mesh between complete, you know, software developers and people who who just work on physical objects. I think they used to be kind of siloed before, but it's kind of getting more and more meshed.
00:19:08
Speaker
Certainly, going back to how most professions are interacting with more tech, it makes sense that those careers are getting intermeshed.
00:19:20
Speaker
Yeah, thank you for explaining all that. I think sometimes people are able to kind of connect the dots more easily, but sometimes people need to hear how those dots are connected in different ways. So I will never be an engineer, but that's quite fascinating. So I'd love to know, you got your engineering certificate, but then you ended up as a current full stack developer.
00:19:47
Speaker
Did you seek out data engineering jobs after springboard? I know you said you didn't mean to switch careers, but let's unpack that. What does that mean?
Navigating Job Hunting Challenges
00:19:57
Speaker
Yeah, so again, I was really, really blessed to have the current position I have. I knew the owner personally, so that helped. But I did apply for all sorts of different jobs.
00:20:17
Speaker
I think I have to go back two years to think about this. But one job, for example, was a company called Micropsy. And they were developing six axis robots that used machine learning to change their behavior based on video input. So kind of like self-autonomous robots.
00:20:45
Speaker
And, you know, just I don't know, there's I feel like once you gain skills, then opportunities present themselves. And when my proxy actually reached out to me initially. Because they saw the certification, they saw the other things. And it ended up not working with what they're with that company, but.
00:21:14
Speaker
I really think that, you know, you, you start building your skillset and then opportunities come and it's a grind, you know, and, um, it's, uh, it's an emotionally difficult process to, to not have the surety of a job or not have, um, you know, to wonder if you have the right skills and wonder if, um, you know, where do you fit in this world? Uh, it's, you know, it's a difficult time. It's a difficult phase. And, um, I think just having the, um,
00:21:44
Speaker
Kind of a self fortitude of like, hey, you know, this is going to work out and just just keep going and keep going through the grind. That kind of helps. And I think you'll, you'll be surprised that opportunities that present present themselves when you put in the work to show the skills.
00:22:03
Speaker
and just keep going at it. And if you just keep going, just keep going. And just know that your self-worth is not attached to what an employer thinks you can do. So if a company looks over you, that's not necessarily because you lack certain skills. They could be putting out a job. Some companies, they put out a job search, and it has nothing to do with anybody. They are legally required to.
00:22:33
Speaker
put out a job search, but they already have somebody in mind that they're going to hire type of thing. So if you get denied, it's not necessarily because you are not worthy or not good. There's a lot of reasons that companies do things. But if you just kind of focus on what you can control, and that's, hey, I'm going to figure out skills, and I'm going to figure out
00:23:01
Speaker
you know, how to interact with people in interviews and how to, you know, I feel like that's your bandwidth of control and you just kind of start there. And for me, you know, I was really fortunate and, you know, very blessed to kind of have these situations.
00:23:23
Speaker
And from my perspective, it's, you know, I believe in God and I believe in, I have faith and those types of things help me through and navigate those types of things. And everybody kind of does it differently. So, but that's just my perspective is, hey, you know, when you're going up against something that's very difficult, you need to believe in yourself and just keep going and getting denied opportunities that that's not a reflection of who you are. You know, everybody goes through that.
00:23:53
Speaker
Sometimes jobs are easier to get based on economic situations. Sometimes they're harder to get, you know, it has nothing to do with, um, your value and trends that, you know, so anyway, that's just my perspective. No. And I think that's a beautiful perspective. Like one thing that you said, I wrote it down so that I can keep it in my journal. Like once you gain skills, opportunities present themselves.
00:24:17
Speaker
And that might, I have a few models I tell myself and that might have to be a new one. But I would love to break down that statement a bit more. You know, you say you're gaining these skills and you're getting these opportunities. What was one skill you gained that prompted an opportunity? The skill of being able to create a data process on a server, you know, that's huge. We can't underestimate like when you're going into tech.
00:24:47
Speaker
It's a different field because if you can manipulate ones and zeros on a server somewhere, you can change the world. I mean, this is, I'm talking big, but, you know, like, if you want to open up a company that makes cars, you're going to have to put in a ton of money to start that company because you're going to have to have physical metal and all this stuff, whereas you can rent space on a server
00:25:16
Speaker
And if you're able to make calls from the server to get the right data and streamline it correctly, that's a huge skill to have. And it's going to be beneficial. And I'm sure that's true for the other certifications. If you can design a website that somebody
00:25:46
Speaker
will more likely be attracted to, that's a huge skill. It's something that is needed and a lot of people are looking for. I can't remember all the certifications that there are, but it's a different industry because kind of going back to the beginning, it's very open source, so there's so much info that's at your hands that you can kind of jump into.
00:26:18
Speaker
You know, if you can get through the hard part of kind of understanding what people are talking about and understanding how things work and have real skills, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of people who want those skills. There's a lot of people who want data to be processed correctly, so when they
00:26:43
Speaker
when they get to their desk, you know, they have all the info in front of them that's correct. And if you can be the person that does that, it's just a good place to be in. And, you know, I'm still working on those skills, honestly. So the certification doesn't necessarily give mastery over it, but it kind of gets you in the running to be in the right place at the right time with the right people. But, you know, I'm working hard
00:27:12
Speaker
you know, to this day, trying to improve and it's a never ending process. But yeah. Yeah, certainly. Another guest we had, Alan, you know, he was saying like, just because my springboard course was over, you know, employers wanted to see what I was doing currently, even after my certification.
00:27:35
Speaker
time ended and, you know, he did kind of describe what you were saying. He found other opportunities to increase his skillset. And now I think people just aren't getting jobs quite as quickly. So what would you tell someone who's maybe been out of their bootcamp, you know, six months, eight months, things are getting hard. What would you tell somebody? I think first I would give them a hug and say, it's okay. You know, sometimes you just
00:28:05
Speaker
You know what I mean? It's tough. And again, it has nothing to do with you. It's OK to eat a chocolate bar every once in a while. And yeah, there's something about just identifying, hey, there's an emotional aspect to this. Because we can get kind of focused in on
00:28:32
Speaker
you know, the results and it's crushing. It's so crushing to go through these processes. And I think when you just kind of identify it, then some of the stress kind of goes away. Uh, but you know, after that, you know, um, if you can kind of have the emotional bandwidth to just keep going at something, uh, it's gonna, it's gonna come, you know, and, um, you know,
00:28:58
Speaker
If you're going to bet on anybody in the world, then bet on yourself. Believe in yourself, bet in yourself, and don't get discouraged. Because something's going to come. And that might involve, you might need to start looking at a broader perspective of, hey, maybe this skill set would fit better in here, and maybe it would fit better in there. But also, yeah.
00:29:27
Speaker
Building your own projects, you know, if you have the skill set and you have your capstone, then you know the pattern of how to do another one or to build on your capstone or to make it more enticing. So I didn't have to do that. So I feel it feels weird, you know, saying that other people should do that, but that's a possible thing.
00:29:51
Speaker
I've just been really blessed to kind of be in the right time at the right place and I've just kind of had opportunities come. Again, it had nothing to do with my skill set because there's all sorts of people who have great skill sets. You try to expose yourself to as many opportunities as possible and then you try to get the best thing that suits you.
00:30:18
Speaker
Because I've had the route I've had doesn't mean that I'm any, you know, any more talented than somebody who didn't, who didn't have those opportunities necessarily. So that's my, that's one thing is like, if you're in that situation, you know, keep at it and just realize, hey, you know, it's all good.
00:30:39
Speaker
And, uh, it'll come. I really think so. I think that, um, if you, if you keep going at it, and it might be, you know, eight, 10 months a year, you know, um, and that that's tough, but, uh, yeah, just keep going at it and understand that there's an emotional aspect that needs to be addressed to a certain degree. So, yeah, certainly. Yeah, I know it's really tough to kind of think back. Like, I remember.
00:31:08
Speaker
applying to just hundreds of jobs. And one day a recruiter reached out to me, I applied to the job I'm at now and they hired me. Like I, it's nuts how much I put into that job hunt when I literally could have just done that thing. Obviously, you know, I did not have that knowledge of the future, but it's true. It's a, it's a, it is a little bit of luck, which is out of your control. And I think.
00:31:38
Speaker
And touching on the emotional level, it's controlling what you can. You can't control an employer's hiring needs or the economy or, you know, if you just didn't say that perfect word and, uh, awkward interview, things happen. So. Yeah. Yep. It's very true.
00:31:58
Speaker
Well, clearly you were doing something right and you did get this job out of your bootcamp. So I'd love to hear about that interview process.
A Humorous Interview Experience
00:32:08
Speaker
What worked for you, but also, you know, what was your good luck story? Yeah. Um, yeah. So the, my current, uh, boss, I knew him personally and he's just a good guy. Um, and I don't, I mean, I don't say that, uh,
00:32:26
Speaker
because he's my boss and I'm on a podcast. But he's just a good guy. And my interview went absolutely terribly. So what happened was I was driving out to his location. And I'd never been there before, so I had my phone direct me. And my phone died right before I got there. And I didn't know which place, which building was his,
00:32:56
Speaker
because there's a whole row of small businesses here. So I start just kind of opening up random doors and I triggered a security alarm on one of the doors that was a silent alarm. So for some reason, this building was unlocked, but it had an alarm system. So I went into the building and I walked out and the police were called. So, yeah, no, it was an absolute disaster.
00:33:25
Speaker
So I'm starting to get late, and then these police arrive. So I start talking to the police. I was like, oh yeah, that was me. So I'm talking to the police, and I give them my identification and all this stuff. And then they hear that I'm late for a job interview. And the policeman, police woman, she
00:33:46
Speaker
She got her phone out, and she searched the address, and she said, that's the building. Run. Go get to your job interviews. Anyway, so I showed up half an hour late to my job interview. And I didn't have the, I didn't, definitely lacking a lot of skills, but I think
00:34:16
Speaker
You know, I think different people hire for different reasons. And I don't know, I was just blessed. But yeah, it went completely haywire. And then I actually left my keys in my car. So afterwards, I thought I lost my keys. The whole thing was crazy. But it kind of goes back to what you're saying about the luck thing, though. It's like, you know, it was an awful interview, but he hired me.
00:34:43
Speaker
huge blessing. So, um, yeah. So yeah, that's, that's what happened. I was at first, I thought you were going to say, Oh, the police walked me to this job interview. And I was like, well, that is a way to make an entrance, but I'm glad she just looked up the address and let you go on your own. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's not like you can just run away from them. So yeah.
00:35:10
Speaker
Well, that that is that's probably the best how I got my first job post bootcamp story I've ever heard. It's a wild one for sure. That is hilarious. And so you're saying this is the job you have now. Mm hmm. Interesting. Okay, so I would love to know what is 03, Inc.
Balancing Work and Life in Tech
00:35:31
Speaker
I've never heard of it. Yeah, no, this is just a small, small, actually, we've grown in the last two years.
00:35:39
Speaker
When I got here, it was four people, uh, no, six people, because some, some work remote. And, um, that's another thing about the tech industry is, um, it's very versatile. You know, we talk about the big, what is it? The big five or whatever, Google, Facebook, and you know, that's great. Um, but there's, it's the whole spectrum because again, if you get ones and zeros on a server the right way.
00:36:07
Speaker
A lot of people will pay for that, right? And there's a lot of different ways that people do that. And I guess I won't go into the specifics, but we have different applications that we're building and have built that do that. So yeah, a lot of people never heard of it because it's a very, very small company. But we're growing, so maybe
00:36:35
Speaker
Maybe we'll become more well-known. Yeah, but it's great because working at Google would be great, but I have two kids and a wife, and that's one of the reasons I left Tesla. It wasn't conducive for a small family. We're still kind of young. My wife and I are kind of young.
00:37:05
Speaker
You know, we're getting things together and you know, you don't want the pressure of, you know, not to say that there's no pressure here or that type of stuff, but, you know, Tesla was a wonderful experience and all that. And there's more, there's more to life than, you know, than your job. And so you got to find the right fit for your family. And yeah, so,
00:37:34
Speaker
Yeah, small companies and again, just kind of build skill sets and figure out how to do things and just kind of figure out where you land. But for me, it's perfect to have the situation. And also the thing that was huge for me is I work with a bunch of guys who are senior developers.
00:38:02
Speaker
You know, they've been around 15, 20, 25 years. So, um, yeah, it was just, it was just, it was just perfect for me because, uh, you know, I have a lot of, a lot to learn. Certainly. And they've probably seen a lot, like they've gone through literally decades of how tech has evolved. So I'm sure they have some pretty good stories. Yeah, it's, it's so nice because, um,
00:38:34
Speaker
You know, even if you look at JavaScript and how it's changed over the years, it's one thing to kind of jump in now and look at JavaScript. But if you can know the history of it, it was created for your browser. And then Node was created later, which works on a server. And they've run on different runtime environments.
00:39:02
Speaker
So that's history starting from 1995 to 2009 or 2012 is one note. There's a history. And when these guys learn this stuff real time, they have a greater depth of understanding of how it's used and why it's used now. And that perspective is huge because when you jump in,
00:39:32
Speaker
you might know, hey, I can do this, this, and this to create a website. But if you understand why people make decisions and why they're doing what they're doing, it really helps. And yes, but I mean, they've been through the whole thing. They know what they're doing. And when I make a, you know, when I, what we call a pull request,
00:40:02
Speaker
submit code, you know, these guys review it and they tell me whether it's right or wrong. And I mean, it's just, it's just great. Certainly. Well, Michael, one of the questions I do love to ask here is, it sounds like you're in a great position working with really cool people. What do you see as next for you? Um, you know, I got to learn a lot, you know, there's a lot to learn, um, you know, more skills, um,
00:40:34
Speaker
And, you know, I'm also kind of, I'm a hungry type of guy. I'm not looking to change anything, but just, you know, master or whatever craft is placed before you is kind of my perspective. So there's a lot to learn, you know, and I think placing high expectations on yourself is really good in the sense of whatever you have a vision of achieving.
Continuous Self-Improvement and Networking
00:41:03
Speaker
that's what you're going to achieve. So if you kind of have a vision of, okay, you know, I'm just going to get by and then that's, that's the ceiling of, of what you're going to do. But if you have a vision of, Hey, you know, I can, I can figure this out and I can do this and that and that, um, then that's probably, you know, where you're going to start heading. And, and if you don't meet that, you're going to still improve. So, um,
00:41:32
Speaker
you know, where my vision is mastery, right? Which is unachievable, because you're always learning and things are changing, but just kind of having high expectations, I think is, it's just good to have, you know, but again, like, not getting down on yourself, or like, I'm not going to do any, I'm not doing any of that, but like, yeah, just, hey, man,
00:41:57
Speaker
I, you know, anybody's capable of understanding and doing and becoming and that includes me. So, you know, just high expectations and try to do the best you can with the time you have. And perhaps to add on, maybe consider, you know, it's not like we're.
00:42:19
Speaker
you know, I think the majority of us are trying to learn something that's already been learned by others. So I think if someone else can do it, you can do it. Yes, yes. I'm a huge fan of believing in myself. And, and that's not because I'm any better or, you know, like everybody, the human potential is huge, right? Like,
00:42:48
Speaker
any human is capable of greatness. And I'm somewhere on a spectrum that's arbitrary and whatever, but if you ever pin yourself against other people, you're probably gonna be sorely disappointed where you fall. Everybody has their own thing, but just personally, just realize every human, every person has tremendous capabilities and you could figure anything out and just believe in yourself.
00:43:17
Speaker
And not in a way that hurts other people, not from an insecure way of bringing other people down. So you feel better. But just be OK falling on your face and be OK failing. And it's like, it's fine. Everybody does it. And that doesn't take away from your self-worth or your potential. Just keep going at it. And you'll figure it out at some point.
00:43:46
Speaker
I couldn't agree more. These words are incredibly wise. With that being said, Michael, are you open to listeners connecting with you on social media? Yeah, if you want to, sure. Yeah, my LinkedIn, Michael Adams, M-I-C-H-A-E-L-A-D-A-M-S, all three apps. Yeah, if you want to, go ahead.
00:44:12
Speaker
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time and sharing your story. And for anyone else who's listening, if you have any questions for Michael or myself that could be answered perhaps on a future episode, please email me at alumni podcast at springboard.com.