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Should We Tell Kids Santa Is Real?
6.8k Plays1 month ago
In this episode, Jess and Scott tackle the polarizing topic of Santa Claus and holiday traditions as they answer the question: "Should we tell kids Santa is real?” They explore different approaches to discussing Santa with children - from treating him as a real person to presenting him as an imaginative character - all while emphasizing the importance of maintaining trust and connection with our kids.
Jess and Scott share valuable insights on fostering genuine gratitude during gift-giving, managing children's expectations and behaviours during holiday celebrations, and navigating family dynamics when different belief systems clash.
They also discuss why using Santa as a behaviour management tool can backfire
and provide practical tips for making the holiday season magical regardless of your approach.
This must-listen episode provides thoughtful guidance for parents seeking to create meaningful holiday traditions while staying true to their values.
Jess mentions an episode where she introduces her hand puppet, “Grumpy Sean.” You can listen to the full episode about playfulness and teasing here.
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
Learn more about the Solving Bedtime Battles course here.
We’d love to hear from you! Have questions you want us to answer on Robot Unicorn? Send us an email: podcast@robotunicorn.net.
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Transcript
Introduction and Content Warning
00:00:00
Speaker
Hey, if you're listening today, I just want to give you a content warning. We're discussing Santa and depending on what you believe and what you've taught your children to believe, you may not want to listen to this ah around young ears. So just letting you know, hope you enjoy the episode.
00:00:20
Speaker
Welcome to robot unicorn. We are so glad that you are here.
00:00:30
Speaker
Well, apparently people are not sick of us discussing Santa and Elf on the Shelf and, I don't know, all the holiday things. Yeah. Even though we've talked about it every single year since. Okay. Not interrupt you. You're interrupting. Okay, go ahead.
Annual Santa Discussion
00:00:47
Speaker
I was just in Vancouver last week and I did a meetup with a bunch of followers from Nurtured First and also Robot Unicorn. And while we were there, one of the folks at the meetup asked me about Santa and said, Jess, are you going to talk about Santa this year? And I said, oh, you're kidding. I said, I've talked about Santa on Nurtured First for seven years of talking about Santa every holiday season. And we love it. And I said, I just assumed everyone was going to be sick of hearing me talk about Santa this year.
00:01:16
Speaker
And she said, no. And then someone else said, but our kids get older every year. And so every year, the way we talk about Santa or the way we're thinking about it changes a little bit.
Polarizing Nature of Santa Talks
00:01:25
Speaker
So it's just nice to have a reminder. So I said, okay, fine. I'll talk about Santa this year and not, okay, fine. As in I hate talking about Santa. I actually don't mind it, but I'll tell you my issue talking about Santa before we get into it. Please tell me. It's not that I don't like talking about Santa and giving people options of how they want to talk with Santa with their own kids. It's that no matter what I say, people are upset with me yeah in terms of the Santa. It's very polarizing. It's very polarizing. And I'm hoping today we can bring a non polarizing discussion. Maybe that's your issue with it. And for me, I'm just bored. You've talked about it so many times. Yeah. It seems like we're playing this on repeat a little bit, but yeah.
00:02:06
Speaker
And there's new people every year. There's people who haven't heard us talk about Santa and Santa can be a really divisive topic in families. Okay. So that's not what this whole episode is on though.
Common Santa Questions
00:02:17
Speaker
That's a part of it. Scott has the questions. I'm adding another question as you're talking. Am I allowed to add one more question to the list of questions that I have on here? Our hope with this episode today is we're going to talk about Santa, but we're also going to talk about all of your holiday related questions. We have been getting a lot of different topics coming in. And so it's kind of.
00:02:37
Speaker
a holiday Q and&A and I'm excited. I'm excited to do this in podcast form because I think it'll allow me to clarify myself a little bit better and get into all the nuances that we like to. Yeah, I agree. And just before we start, we do have a blog, like at least one. Yeah, we have a great blog post on Talking to Kids About Santa and I think you'll find it helpful if you want more even above and beyond this podcast. All right. So I have a whole list of questions.
Santa as a Behavior Tool?
00:03:04
Speaker
I had Paige help me put together, essentially summarize what we've been asked over the years. I mean, I'm sure there's lots more, but just a summary of the questions. So let's just start with Santa. Cause we were just talking about that anyway. Keep talking on that. There's a whole host of questions that people have asked us on that topic in particular. Okay. One is how should parents talk? about Santa to their kids. Is it allowed? Is it not allowed? And then secondary to that, is it okay to use Santa or the Elf on the Shelf as a tool for creating good behavior in your kids? So that's a secondary question. yeah The first is, are you even allowed to talk about Santa and Elf on the Shelf?
00:03:47
Speaker
Right. So I don't think it's my job to tell people what they're allowed and not allowed to talk to their kids about. So first off, whenever I get that question, I say, well, you tell me. And the first thing I do with parents is talk to me about Santa. Talk to me about your experience when you were a child hearing about Santa. Right. And so if I ask you that question, I know your answer is you didn't have Santa growing up, right? Santa was more of a character and not something that you believed was real. Yeah. I think I wanted to, but yeah, you wanted to believe Santa was real.
00:04:18
Speaker
Maybe you imagined it, but in your home, Santa was a character, right? And same with me. Whereas for a lot of people, some of our good friends, when they grew up, Santa was real, right? Their parents said Santa was real. Their parents created this magic around Santa, you know, dad's thumping on the roof. You're thinking the reindeers are coming. Everyone has a different experience and what your experience was or wasn't is going to shape the way you want to talk to your kids about Santa.
Santa as Fictional Character?
00:04:43
Speaker
right If you grew up and Santa was this magical character and it felt like something you loved as a child and you had no trauma when you found out that Santa was in fact not real, spoiler, you know, but then you might want to pass that message on to your kids, right? And if you grew up and Santa was a character or maybe when your parents told you that Santa was in fact not real, that felt traumatic to you and it felt like your parents had lied to you and you felt silly and ashamed, maybe you won't want to do it, right? But you have to look at your own experiences and the message that you want to give your kids. So that's first and foremost, I think that's with anything regarding parenting. We want to reflect on our own experiences, see what we want to take away, see what we want to do different, and then decide what we're going to tell our kids.
00:05:29
Speaker
And then I pare it down to two different stories, right? So there's one story where Santa is a character and this is the story that Scott and I do with our kids, right? So we tell them the story of St. Nicholas and we help them understand who Santa originally was and and why Santa's even around to begin with.
00:05:47
Speaker
And then we talk about Santa as a character, right? And just like Mickey Mouse or Elsa or any other character, we can choose to think that character's real if that's something that the child wants to do. So we talked about this with our four-year-old the other day and she's like, I want to think Santa's real. They're like, okay. So we can imagine that Santa is real. At what point do I bring up the fact that Coca-Cola is the company that created the Santa that everyone visualizes today?
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah. When am I allowed to bring that up? At the end of my rant. Okay. Yeah. So for our four year old, she wants to imagine that Santa's real. That is fun to her. She wants to do the milk and cookies. She wants to imagine that reindeer are coming down. She wants to send her letter to Santa in the mail and that's what she wants to do. So that's fine. We can play it out. And I think that can be really fun to play. We know is our kids' language. Scott and I have talked about that a ton on the podcast. And if Santa can be a way that we play with our kids and make up imaginary worlds with our kids,
00:06:48
Speaker
I think that can be really fun and special and magical. Our eight year old or seven and a half year old has decided that she doesn't want to think Santa is real and that she knows better and thinks that Santa is pretend.
Santa and Family Connection
00:07:01
Speaker
But at the same time, she's still interested in doing all the play things.
00:07:04
Speaker
Yeah, she still enjoys doing all that stuff wrong. Yeah, she still wants to make the cookies. She still wants me to send her letter to Santa. I think a little bit she does think Santa's real, even though she says Santa's not real because she was really insistent on me sending a letter to Santa. Okay. Right? and And I think that's okay because what we know about kids is that kids love to play and they feel connected to their parents through play. And a lot of the times what I'm asking parents is, okay, Santa felt magical to you. Was the magic Santa? Or was the magic the way that you were allowed to have this open imagination and play and connection with your parents?
00:07:42
Speaker
And for a lot of kids, Santa and the experience of Santa was a way that they deeply connected with their parents through play. And I think that that's often missed in the discussion around Santa. And is it a certain time of year that maybe they get more attention from their parents yeah than others? Because it's like maybe, I don't know, maybe that's something that happens.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, I think so. I think it's a certain time of year, Santa can really be a way of connection because for parents, like perhaps for your parents, Santa was a way that they connected with their parents, right? So there can be like a generational thing. so No, I'm just saying in general. And I'm saying in general, even if someone had parents who maybe weren't the best and the most attentive the rest of the year, they might have wanted to live out their own nostalgia and their own memory through Santa, making them feel more connected and close to their kids around the holiday season. So I think when we're talking about Santa, what we should or should not do, what we really want to think about is the magic of Santa and the magic of this time of year and that feeling often comes from just connecting with our kids through imagination and play.
00:08:45
Speaker
And if that's what Santa is for you and your family, I think that can be great. And I think if you want to do the Santa's real story, like I had when I did that meetup, a bunch of people were saying that they do the Santa's real story. I think that there's a way that that can be done. That's okay for kids.
00:09:00
Speaker
Right? You follow your child's cues. You do it like you would any other thing that a kid thinks is real. You know, like our daughters think unicorns are real and we haven't quite burst their bubble. Well, we've tried, but they're like, you guys are wrong.
Respecting Differing Beliefs
00:09:12
Speaker
You know, unicorns are real. They've seen one at like a local fair. Yeah. They saw a horse and someone put a horn on it. And now they truly believe unicorns are real. And they painted it and everything too. And so it looked all pink and purple, whatever colors of the rainbow. So. Right? So our kids think unicorns are real. We haven't told them really that unicorns aren't real. And I don't think that's true. I feel like we actually have, but they refuse to believe us. Yeah. But we're not like forcing them like, look, that was a horse and you know, trying to pop that bubble that will happen over time.
00:09:42
Speaker
And so I think if that's your story, just be really mindful of it. It should be play. It should be imagination. It should be fun. It's never about tricking, you know, trying to trick kids, trying to keep them believing longer just because you want to hold on to that magic, right? So if you have a seven and a half year old and they're ready to be like, hey, is Santa actually real or Then maybe you just say, oh, you know what? Yeah, you're ready to hear the truth about Santa. You know, Santa's in our imagination and the magic is in the time that we have together and telling them that story. Another question about Santa I get asked a lot is, well, what if I teach my kids that Santa's a character and they have other friends at school?
00:10:25
Speaker
You're taking my my questions away from me. Oh, it's because I know what people ask because I've done this for so many years. These are all questions that you are going to know. Yeah, that's okay. So yeah, and the question is, what if I teach my kids Santa's real or not real and they go to school and ah another child says Santa's real or not real? That's different, right?
00:10:46
Speaker
And so this is what I said at the meetup the other day, if someone directly asked me that question. And I said, what if you make it about your family and what your family believes and family values, and it can be a great way to actually open up that conversation, right? So you can say something like, in our family, we see Santa as a character and we like to pretend and we like to imagine Santa, but in Sophie's family, she sees Santa as real, right? And that's what her family believes and that's what her family sees.
00:11:15
Speaker
And that's okay, it's not our job to tell other kids what to think or what to believe. So we can respect that that's what Sophie thinks and we can know that our family thinks something different or vice versa, right? And it can be a great way to start to teach your kids how to respect other people's beliefs and values. Yeah, for sure. I know we did that with our oldest. Yeah. Because one of her best friends is a fierce believer in Santa and we are very careful about making sure that she doesn't burst that bubble. One question that's related to this. Yeah.
00:11:43
Speaker
Someone sent in a very long email. I'm just going to distill it down to one short question, but is it our job as parents to make sure Santa isn't ruined for other kids? That's the thing. Maybe some parents would be like, well, I'm not going to trick my child into believing something that I don't want them to believe for the sake of other kids, which I know is not what you're saying. but Our job is always to be aligned with our own values.
00:12:07
Speaker
and teach our kids those things, right? What I would say is whatever story we teach our kids, whether Santa's real or not real, we have to know that we run the risk of our kids are going to be in public around other kids that may or may not tell them something. And this is a greater lesson about everything we teach our kids, right? Whatever belief system that you have in your house and that you instill in your own children, they can go to school or friends or karate or whatever, and someone can tell them something different.
Santa and Behavior Control
00:12:37
Speaker
And this is where with Santa, this is where I've gotten into trouble in the past saying that I personally don't like teaching our kids that Santa is real because I want them to be able to trust the things that I tell them are real.
00:12:51
Speaker
yeah And if I spend several years trying to convince them that Santa's real when he's not real, you know, the magic maybe is real and the imagination and the play and all of that, but Santa as a person coming down your chimney, isn't actually happening. I don't want to risk breaking that trust with my kids for the things that I do tell them are real.
00:13:13
Speaker
Yeah, like the most, let's one of the most important values that we have as a family is truth, truth telling. So then that doesn't really align with the way we do literally everything else. Yeah. So if that doesn't align with our core value of telling the truth and being honest as a family, that's why that's not something that we do is is teach them the Santa is real story. That's why we go with the character story and the imagination story.
00:13:38
Speaker
In which case our kids still want to imagine Santa and yeah think that he's real, right? So we still watch Christmas movies. We still do all the things. I would say it's fun. but' We'll still do the cookies. We'll still do the carrots. So I would just recommend to parents, figure out the story that's going to work for your family. Just be reflective on it. You'll figure out what's best for you. I don't need to, I can't tell parents what's best for them. That's not our job. Yeah, the thing that I would avoid. So I remember hearing from parents for so many years. Well, is it okay if I use Santa as a way to get my kids to behave over the holiday season? They don't want to get a lump of coal and
00:14:18
Speaker
I want them to be nice, so can I use Santa as a way to get them to behave? And what I will say is that that strategy will fall flat. Like, it will not work for you in the long term. Sure, your kids may be motivated in the short term to behave because they want presents, but long term, as soon as Christmas is over,
00:14:37
Speaker
you're left without a plan. It's it's a very short-term plan, and we are not actually teaching our children why they should behave. We're not helping them learn a new skill.
00:14:48
Speaker
I think there's that. And then also, let's say for myself, if someone were to tell me something is real and then try to control my behavior through that thing they're telling me is real, and then I find out you actually lied to me this whole time. Yeah. Like this is me personally, I would say, wow, this person's full of why should I listen to anything? And this is already what I was thinking as a kid, right? Like I'm already seeing teachers telling us things and then finding out um that's not actually true, but they're using that to control the classroom or whatever. And then I would,
00:15:17
Speaker
Of course, that's me. Fight back against that because I'm like, I don't want someone to try and control me constantly. and That's your counter will, right? Yeah, exactly. My counter will comes out very quickly. I think holiday season is the season of brides and threats, right? If you don't listen, then we're not going to grandma's for Christmas. If you don't listen, you're not getting any presents from Santa. If you don't XYZ, then you're not going to get XYZ. And so I want parents to be mindful of that this time of year too.
00:15:46
Speaker
Because again, if how we teach kids is through modeling in our own behavior how we want them to behave, threatening them, bribing them, is only going to teach them how to use the same tools back on you, first off. And second, your child's going to learn that you're not going to follow through with that.
00:16:04
Speaker
Right? The amount of times I've heard parents come into the office and it's no judgment because I know it feels like something that's going to work. Right? They'll come into the office and do it. It feels productive. It feels productive, right? I told him that if he doesn't listen, he's not getting any presents on Christmas. It's like, okay, well, were you planning on following through with that? Because he didn't listen. Well, no, of course I'm going to give him his presents.
00:16:26
Speaker
Right. So what does he learn? Right. He learns that you're going to give him an empty threat and you're probably not going to follow through with it. And that's it. Right. So he learns to not take you seriously. And then the next time you have to up the threat to try and hope that he'll take you seriously. So it's just a plan. That's not going to work in the long-term and that's not what I want for parents. yeah It's possibly short-term gains, yes but in the long-term that's not effective. And it can be damaging to the relationship, right? If our plan for discipline is based on threats or taking things away or this other being Santa telling the shelf or telling on you, same thing about alpha on the shelf. I mean, it's talking, let's say talking to Santa.
00:17:06
Speaker
Yeah, let's do the same thing. It's the same thing with the elf. I don't want to get too into the elf because it's basically the exact same thing. I don't know that much about it. So let the elf be fun and imaginative. If you're going to do it, take the naughty, nice language out of it. I know a buddy of mine like sets up all these elaborate things with his wife and we'll like set up a zip line across the house and have the elf in the morning in the middle of the zip line stuck or something like that. And do funny things like that. And like good for you. If you have the energy, I don't. Yeah. That sounds like a lot of work. Yeah. But it's the same thing. We want to avoid using the alpha as a way to manipulate behavior. It's just not going to work for you in the longterm and instead make it fun, make it play, use it as a way to connect. And if we do that, we'll see less challenging behavior
Influence of Childhood Experiences
00:17:49
Speaker
too. So then it's a win-win. Yeah. You're definitely getting canceled for this episode.
00:17:54
Speaker
I know, that's why I wasn't supposed to do it. Can we go back a little bit? Of course. Why do you think this topic has been so polarizing? Like, we've talked about it every year, and without fail, every year, people are pissed. No matter what you say, like, you could say, yeah, it's fine. You do it one way, you do it the other way, like, either way is fine, but just maybe don't do these things because they're not helpful. That's what I'm saying, yeah. And yet still, for some reason,
00:18:20
Speaker
because people it's a deeper thing where we are very attached to our core childhood memories and we are very defensive about our childhood and if we're not reflective on okay well this worked for me as a kid so I'm going to repeat this this didn't work so I'm not going to do that if we don't have that reflection when I say we don't do Santa because it's important to us to be truthful to our kids that triggers maybe a wound that we didn't know about or, hey, I've been doing that and are you calling me a liar? Right? And I just want parents to know that is not it. And that's why I give them multiple options, right? We can do the Santa's real story in a way that's not traumatizing to kids, right? Like I'm not saying that all parents who do that are in the wrong in any way. I think that there can be a nice way to do that.
00:19:11
Speaker
Can I be the polarizing person here and just ask, how is it possible to tell your child that Santa's real and not kind of be a liar about it? Right? Like that to me doesn't add up. In my mind, you can't say like, I'm truthful with my kids. And then also say the tooth fairy is real. And like, whatever, all these things, that to me doesn't make sense. So to role play it out, I'll role play it as the parent who would come to me with this, yeahp right? Okay, but it's not that big a deal. I grew up thinking Santa was real and it was the most magical memories. And then I found out when I was eight, my mom pulled me aside and said, Santa's actually not real. You're old enough to know the truth now. And that felt magical to me too. And then I passed it down to my siblings. So what's so bad about that?
00:19:56
Speaker
That felt magical to know that you would see, I feel like, let's say here where we live and in Canada, I feel like a lot of people celebrate in Christmas and like celebrate it by going out and hanging out with family and doing fun, like sometimes giving gifts to each other. And I feel like for me, the magical part was I remember going to my grandparents on their dairy farm.
00:20:20
Speaker
and my grandmother would always decorate her house with like all these little, I think they were a little Dutch houses, like she still does it now, but little houses that light up and everything and it's, I'm pretty sure it's like a Dutch tradition that you do this, and she would set up like these elaborate little towns in her house and remove all the other decorations and have this and have like tinsel on her to Christmas tree and And all these colorful lights, which is why I convinced you that colorful lights are better. Yeah. But it had nothing to do with like Santa or whatever. Like watching movies was a part of that, but it wasn't specifically that it was hanging out specifically at my grandparents on their dairy farm and.
00:21:00
Speaker
having snow there and going in the hot tub on their back deck and like doing all fun things like that. Those are the memories that I have of that time, but it didn't involve being told the story of Santa as though it was real. So I don't know, maybe it's just because I never had that. yeah I can maybe see the difference and if you did have it, then it's harder to see that difference and like it's still possible to have that exact same like magical feeling. yeah I think that's the hard part. If we grew up with Santa as being real and
Nostalgia and Traditions
00:21:30
Speaker
that... So basically I'm going to get you canceled on this one.
00:21:32
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I hope not. But I think if if you grew up and Santa was real and your parents told you that story and they made it feel real for you, it felt like the reindeer were coming down. I can see how that would feel magical. And I can see how all your childhood memories around holiday season would be intertwined with Santa Claus being real. The same way that your childhood memories going to the farm and having the tinsel on the tree and the twinkly lights.
00:22:01
Speaker
you know, it we're all kind of around your grandma and and that felt really magical for you. I think it's really hard to separate that magical feeling and Santa for people who grew up with that, right? It's hard to know that, oh, perhaps it would still have felt just as magical if you had that play and that fun with your parents and your family and Santa wasn't seen as real. And I think that's why people get defensive over it, right? Yeah, I mean, that's fair.
00:22:26
Speaker
So I think it's actually really fair and I understand it and that's why I like to give both perspectives. But... Just in the grand scheme of things, it's a pretty minor thing. Yeah, i think I think it can be a minor thing as long as we're delicate about it. Yeah. Right? And we never make a kid feel silly for believing in Santa Claus. And we never expose Santa in front of everybody making the kid like, oh, what the heck, you lied to me, you know? What about a friend in their mid-30s? Our dear friend who still believes in Santa Claus.
00:22:56
Speaker
Right. And I think we hold tight the childhood memories that meant the most to us. And for many people, the holiday season was the most connected time of year to their parents. It revolved around Santa. You know, maybe their dad was never around or involved and now all of a sudden dad's dressing up as Santa or helping you make the cookies. Right. Like, so I understand why people want to pass that down to their kids. And I respect that. And that's why I like to give the second option.
00:23:25
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. That makes sense. I can
Transitioning Santa's Role
00:23:27
Speaker
see it. You can see it and you can say, I'm going to do something different. That's where values come in, right? My beliefs are too ingrained in me now. so that yeah I think this was an email we just got recently that I paraphrased, but how can a parent change course? So they were talking to their child about Santa as though they were real. And now they've decided actually I want to change course and I want to talk about Santa as a character instead. So how do you do this? I think their email said something about like, how do I do this without
00:23:57
Speaker
breaking the trust that I have with my child. So basically I'm saying I did all this. And now I want to change. And now I'm changing. Yeah. And I'm kind of like doing a full 180 on what I've just been.
00:24:09
Speaker
So what are all the pieces that are the same, right? We can still imagine Santa. Like I said about our daughters, we can still make milk and cookies. We can still send off a letter. We can still play. You can still do the reindeer hooves on the ceiling if that's what you want to do. You can still open presents Christmas morning. All of those things can stay the same. So kids will find peace in what stays the same.
00:24:30
Speaker
the story maybe just changes just a little bit, right? So instead of being like, Santa's real and Santa's really coming, you can be like, okay, so you know how we talked about how Santa was real last year. This year, I want to tell you something really special, you know? So Santa was real. He was a person named St. Nick and tell them the story of who St. Nick was and be like a lot of people like to think of Santa's still as real and that's what we did last year but I want you to know that we don't actually have a man coming down the chimney but you will still get presents Christmas morning and you will still get this and we can still do the cookies if you want to still imagine that he's real.
00:25:08
Speaker
And that's what I do. That's what mommy does. That's what daddy does, right? We still like to imagine Santa's real because it feels special to us. So I think we can overthink these kinds of conversations, but trying to remember all the things that are the same and focus on that, and then just tell the story of St.
Teaching Gratitude and Thoughtfulness
00:25:25
Speaker
Nick and focus on, we're not actually having a man come down the chimney, but yeah we can still imagine it. Like I think for us, the way we've discussed, like we celebrate Christmas,
00:25:35
Speaker
the way we celebrate it and the things that we do and the reasons why we do it, we explain that to the kids. And I feel like they trust us because we're honest about what we're doing. Yeah. What would break the trust is to be like, Hey, remember last year I told you Santa was real? Yeah, he's not. Yep.
00:25:51
Speaker
You know, like no story to it, no connection to it. Yeah, he's not real. You know, sometimes people just say that to kids just because it's fun. Like not having the story, the connection time, the being on their level, the private conversation, that could break the trust. So it's just in the way that we approach these conversations that really matters. Just like everything to do with parenting. Would you look at that?
00:26:14
Speaker
Okay, this is the last one. Another very common question. And I mean something that we experience with our girls too. What should we do and how should we teach our kids, let's say if they are receiving gifts, to be polite or grateful for the things that they're giving. And I mean, on top of that, there's a difference in like financial situations. Like some parents are very likely not able to afford that much for their kids. Other ones are able to afford a lot more.
00:26:42
Speaker
Some kids are getting like exactly what they asked for for Christmas and other kids aren't. So like how do you teach your child that even though getting new underwear for Christmas it might not be what they wanted but it's not okay to be rude about it or grateful about it I guess.
00:27:01
Speaker
So I'm gonna change the question. I don't think you can make kids be grateful. Yeah, I guess you can't force gratefulness. You can't force gratefulness. Gratefulness is a feeling that comes from within when we see something that someone else has done for us and we feel that feeling inside of our body that's grateful and that's happy and that feels you know like an inner smile towards what's happening and then we say thank you. We can't force that in kids, especially kids who don't have their prefrontal cortexes developed yet, right? So I think we put a lot of pressure on kids to, you know, say thank you, be grateful. And then we get mad at kids when they throw the box around across the room and say they don't like the toy. So we we just have to be mindful of who we're working with here when it comes to gifts, right? If your child's under seven, you're working with a child with quite an immature brain that still needs to develop logic and reasoning.
00:27:51
Speaker
And so I just imagine this, we go to Scott's grandma's who it's still very magical and his grandma still gives us all presents, right? And it's loud, we have tons of family around, it's a busy long day, sometimes it's hot. And so by the time we have one of our daughters, like our toddler, let's say, open a gift,
00:28:09
Speaker
It's been a long day. She probably missed a nap. It's hot. right All these things. So she might open the gift and chuck it across the room because she doesn't like it. Right? Does that mean she's ungrateful and bratty and spoiled? Or does that mean that she's probably overstimulated and has just had a super long day and now everybody's eyes are on her expecting some sort of reaction?
00:28:30
Speaker
Right. So at first, I think as adults, our job is to have just realistic expectations for our kids that are opening gifts. And to know that just because your child chucked it across the room or said they don't like it, doesn't mean that's actually true. They might just have a lot going on and yeah it might just come out of the behavior. Oh, I know if our two younger ones don't have enough rest before we do that, there's probably going to be tears. We've had tears over pajamas as gifts before and stuff like that, right? But then, oh, a week later, they love the pajamas and they wear them every night, you know? So I think as adults, we have to remember our job is to have reasonable expectations on our little ones and not to take everything so personal.
00:29:11
Speaker
I think in that situation too, we've often had conversations with the girls about the meaning behind the gift too. Like maybe it's whatever, we've gotten them socks before. We're those parents that get them useful things too that we also. Yeah, we always get them something useful like socks or PJs or underwear or whatever.
00:29:28
Speaker
We explain, like we know you needed this and we thought this was kind of something special for you. Like we'll get some fun pajamas or something like that for them. And we thought this was something special that you might like. It might not be your favorite thing, but we put thought behind it and this was specific to you. Yeah, and we could tell them the story of the gift. Yeah. And then I would- Which might sound like a lot of work to some parents. Yeah, it might be. But I i think gifts are more special when you know the story behind it. Yeah, even some like small things. Honestly, the the girls can receive the smallest thing. If there's a special story behind it, like if I gave them a rock and I was like, When I was in Vancouver, I was walking and I saw this rock on the side of the road and I picked it up and I gave it a hug and I thought, oh, look how sparkly this rock is. I bet she would love it. And I put it in a box and I packaged it up and a rock would then be special, right? So telling your kids the story of the gift and why it matters, that's a way to build gratitude and to teach your child, you know, why they might feel grateful. It's not just you are receiving something in that moment. It means someone, like it was premeditated. They actually thought about it and they discerned like what this person, what you might like and put time into it. And it's not just like someone tapped their card. Yeah. And bought this thing for you and that was it. And if you think about the way that kids attach, right? They feel closest to us when they know that we've been thinking about them even when they're not there.
00:30:55
Speaker
So we actually can use gifts as a way to connect and build and foster our attachment with our kids. But that doesn't mean the gift has to be fancy. Like my story of the rock, like it could be anything, but having the story behind it and showing your kid, I thought of you even when you weren't
Managing Expectations and Behavior
00:31:11
Speaker
there. And that's why I thought this gift would be so special for you and giving them that story will help. The other thing that we can do is let's say you're worried about gratitude at grandma's house or something like that. You can do a role play with your kid. As long as I don't have to do it, it's fine. Well, I think we already did a role play before, remember? Did we? Yeah, but that doesn't mean- Yeah, I got you. I got it. I got it in. And I wasn't going to say it while we were doing it, but you can role play out with your kids, right? And maybe we can say- How I don't trust you. Being respectful and being polite.
00:31:42
Speaker
Being respectful and being polite is important when we go to Grandma's house, right? And tell them the story. We tell our kids the story of Grandma. Grandma thinks of you all year long, which is true. Scott's grandma does do this. Yeah, it pretty much starts, I think, starts on some collection of gifts, like at the beginning of the new year already.
00:32:00
Speaker
So grandma thinks of you all year long. She's thinking about what you might like as a gift. She's going to give you some gifts. And what's really important to us and to grandma, you know, that when we open the gift, we say thank you to grandma. You know, that's being respectful, that's being polite. And that's important, even if you don't love the gift, because sometimes they don't love the gift right away.
00:32:20
Speaker
usually later, they end up liking it, but again, they might be overstimulated. Some of the gifts we don't like because of what they are and the girls love them. Right. But we can still teach respect, but that comes through modeling respect and maybe even having a little role play, a little discussion before. So they know what the expectation is. Yeah. I mean, our toddler, like a two year old, you could role play all you want.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, she's still gonna chuck the box across the room yeah and be like, no, I don't like it. Or maybe love it. Yeah, you never know. When our daughter, I was like, I don't know how this is gonna go. She got a t-shirt. And before we knew it, she was stripping down naked, putting the t-shirt on in front of everyone. right And then that was another conversation. Okay, let's just, you know, we don't take our clothes off in front of the whole family.
00:32:58
Speaker
But I think if we come in with the realistic expectation, we tell the story, we use gifts as a way to connect, build attachment, and do some role play, I think that's the best we can do. And then if our kids are still angry and upset, then take them to a calm, quiet moment, you know, take them to the bathroom, talk to them there, get them away from all the family, because it can be really overstimulating for little ones. Yes. So I think for little kids, that all makes sense. We do have some followers that have older kids, yeah like pre-teens and teenagers and stuff like that. That's the same thing, right? So we might. Yeah, but don't you think that's a little bit, um like, I don't know, as a teenager, do you think you would have sat there and listened to your mom? Like, let's role play this out.
00:33:41
Speaker
Okay, not the role play, ah but the expectation when we go to Grandma's house. Yeah, okay. So maybe you're not going to role play it out in the same way, but I still would tell a teenager the story of why the gift matters. I mean, maybe you're teaching our girls young enough to how to role play, so then they'll want to continue doing that. Yeah, Grumpy Sean will role play it with them. Teenager, yeah. I can just imagine. Yeah.
00:34:04
Speaker
They'll probably still love it. I still, I hope one day when we're in pickup line to get the kids from school, all of a sudden Grumpy Sean pops up the window and they come up. Grumpy Sean is my hand puppet. If this is the first episode you've listened to, uh, we can link the episode where we talk about Grumpy Sean, but it's on playfulness. It's on playfulness.
Maintaining Family Values
00:34:22
Speaker
Yeah. Anyways, do you have any last words of wisdom to give parents about this time of year and the questions that you've received over the years?
00:34:30
Speaker
I think parents know within themselves the story that's going to work for their own families when it comes to Santa. And the thing one time that made me the saddest is that someone said they were following my stories on Santa and they decided for their own family, not because I said so, right? I always say you choose your own values, that they didn't want to do Santa with their kids. And in doing that, it meant that they didn't get invited to their family's Christmas that year.
00:34:56
Speaker
because really yeah their family was so committed to doing Santa and not having anyone spoil it for their children that they said, if you refuse to teach your kids that Santa's real, you may not come. Wow. I've never heard of that before. That seems a bit excessive. And I know it causes division in families. And so that is... Santa does. Santa does. And I know that because I've heard that every year for the last seven years I've been talking about this. Really? Yes. Okay. I feel like that's a new one for me. I've never heard that from you.
00:35:24
Speaker
Yeah. So my wisdom on that would be, you know, just have an open mind to whatever your family's doing, see how you can work it out. There's a lot of love to give in your families and maybe not, you know, maybe that is a boundary and you're like, Hey, if you don't want me to come because of Santa, then that's probably an indication that there's more going on than just.
00:35:46
Speaker
Santa, but it can be a really tricky time of year with families and values. yeah And your job is your own family and your own values that you have within your family. And then seeing how that can work among a family system that probably all things of things may be a little bit differently. And my hope for my children and for everyone's children is that we can learn how to respect each other. and how to honor each other's value systems and maybe Santa's a way to model that to our kids, right? That we can honor people who feel differently and think differently than us and still respect them and still be in community with them. Yeah, there's no need to judge. Yeah, we don't need to judge and I just want to leave people on that because I hate to hear when something like that causes a division in families.
00:36:30
Speaker
That seems crazy to me, but not surprising. yeah and so I mean, there's a lot of things dividing humans. There's a lot of things that divide humans. And the holidays, that's maybe a whole other episode, is a time. Yeah, that's a separate discussion for sure. That's difficult for families. And so remember your job as your kids, and maybe we see how we can keep our own values and boundaries and be in community or not with our family. I guess it's a whole other episode, but let us know if you want to hear that one.
00:36:59
Speaker
Might be too late this year, but yeah, well we might have to do it in the new year. Okay. Sounds good. Well, thanks for discussing, Justin, all of the wisdom that you spewed out to everyone. I hope it was helpful. I really do. You like that term? I can't take you serious. We'll talk to you all soon. Thanks. Bye.
00:37:21
Speaker
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We are glad that you are here. If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review. Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all. A five star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.