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“Why Does Mess Trigger Me So Much!?”
10.6k Plays2 months ago
In this revealing episode, Jess and Scott dive deep into why a messy house is a major trigger for Jess. They explore how their different upbringings shaped their attitudes towards cleanliness, with Jess craving order while Scott is more relaxed about clutter.
Jess opens up about feeling overwhelmed by visual chaos and struggling to be present with her kids when the house is messy. They share practical strategies they've found helpful, like setting boundaries around eating spaces and getting rid of excess toys.
Listeners will gain insight into managing their own triggers around household mess, communicating needs to partners, and finding a balance between cleanliness and embracing the chaos of family life.
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Transcript
Introduction and Lighthearted Banter
00:00:00
Speaker
I was going to start the show before you got into your question by just saying hello. I feel like the last few days I've been super busy. I feel like I haven't actually like sat and talked to you in a while. Maybe you don't feel the same. Maybe you've just been so happy. That's been so peaceful. Okay. Here we go.
00:00:23
Speaker
You're laughing, but I can sense... Scott, we're gonna talk about this after the episode's over. Oh, no, we're gonna talk about it now. Oh, okay. Don't you feel like we haven't really seen each other the last couple days? Yeah, it's been kind of busy. Getting ready for vacation. Yeah. And kid stuff, camps, work. I just feel like... What do we do on a holiday weekend? We just had a holiday weekend.
00:00:43
Speaker
It was so chaotic. yeah yes we I feel like we've had ah too much going on lately and it's just been feeling a bit chaotic.
Family Outings and Summer Chaos
00:00:50
Speaker
What do you think? Well, you notice how rare it is that I actually plan any outing for the family.
00:00:55
Speaker
i know but I don't even feel like I've been trying to plan these things. which just Things just keep coming up and then all of a sudden we're doing something and it's fine. It's all good things. It's like a play date that our daughter has lined up with a friend of hers. So then we go. Or all of a sudden our daughter wants to get chapter books from the library. So now we're taking a family trip to the library, but with three kids at bedtime, that turns into chaos. Yeah, that was probably not our finest decision.
00:01:19
Speaker
No, that was definitely not our finest decision. no So I just feel like we've been doing a lot of like little things, nothing big, but it's just been filling up a lot of time. and And then with the summer holidays being here, the kids are going to bed later. And so we're not having that same downtime at night because the kids are up later. And I just feel like we haven't chit chatted in a while. So how's your heart?
00:01:47
Speaker
Ew.
00:01:51
Speaker
You don't like that question? Not really. I text that question to my friends. You text how is your heart to your friends? I do. Heard it here first, folks. I don't think that's a bad thing. That's just the most you thing I've ever heard. Imagine getting a text from a friend. Hey friend, how's your heart doing today? I can't imagine any of my buddies texting. Well, now that we've said this and this, if this goes live, then I probably will. But I can't imagine any of my buddies texting me asking, Scott, how's your heart today? Really? Like once a week, I'll probably try and text a friend and be like, how's your heart feeling? And they respond to that seriously? Yeah.
00:02:30
Speaker
I fail to see how this is funny. What? You have to see it. Okay. I see it a little bit. Anywho. Wow, you really rambled on on how is you in this intro. You haven't even answered my question. I believe this is what's called a cold open.
00:02:50
Speaker
Welcome to Robot Unicorn. We are so glad that you are here. As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott.
Messy Homes and Emotional Triggers
00:03:03
Speaker
Okay, so since you won't tell me how you're doing, a why don't you tell me your question that you have for me? You sure you're ready for it? Well, you know what the topic is on. And by the way, I'm going to figure out how you're doing as this interview goes on, so.
00:03:17
Speaker
That'll happen when you lose to tears. Okay, my question today is, why is a messy house so triggering for you? And I think this is common, but for you specifically, I know, and I've seen how triggering a messy house is. So what is it about the messy house that makes you rage clean and get annoyed with the mess? Okay, so there's like two levels. So on the surface level, I would probably just say, well, I like things to be clean. I don't like to have a messy house because I like it to look clean and I don't like to look at clutter. And it's overwhelming when there's things everywhere. But I feel like there's, of course, something deeper going on, as always. Wow, really? It's surprising. Actually, yeah, let's just roll the credits right here. That's why I don't like a messy house.
00:04:14
Speaker
But what's deeper? I feel like I've reflected on this so much over the years because genuinely that is one of my biggest triggers, is when the house is messy. I feel like you understand that more now. Well, I've always kind of understood it to a point. To a point. But I feel like you actually, you get it a little bit more now, wouldn't you say? I feel like when we were first married, it was more the counter will. You think that's one of us? I don't know. No, for me, I think it's more, I like things organized. But you know, I've become apathetic towards the whole idea of organization. As soon as you have kids, or you have Jess as your wife, organization gets thrown straight out the window.
00:04:55
Speaker
What is that false? It's interesting to me about myself that I am in my corner of the house. Sorry. I don't mean to cut you off, but in the same sense I do. If you look at my small corner of the house that you gave me for my hobbies, everything is lined up. I have like a little 3d printed stand for all the things. It's nicely organized and nobody touches that area. That's what I like. It's like the idea of a restaurant. I don't know. I'm going to butcher the pronunciation of this, but the mise en place, like everything in its place. Yeah. I like that idea. Well, I feel like the difference between the two of us is you are organized.
00:05:32
Speaker
but you can be okay with like the toys are out and we haven't done the dishes from dinner yet. Like you in your mind, you're like, I know we'll get to it. So I'm fine to just be present with the kids even though yeah it's messy. Whereas for me, I'm like, I can't be present with the kids mentally. It's something I'm working through when it's messy. And so my problem becomes I get so overwhelmed with like the visual clutter that's going on with the mess that it's hard for me to switch my brain from like, it's so messy in here and that's okay.
00:06:04
Speaker
I can cope with it. It takes 10 minutes to clean it all up. We'll do it once the kids are in bed. It's so hard for me to work through that. So then I end up trying to clean the mess while the kids are still making a mess. And then I'm getting frustrated with them. And I have a hard time resting. Like you always say that to me, right? Like we'll be with the kids. And I'm just constantly cleaning, tidying. Oh, quick, let's like bring the broom out and sweep up the floor. I think they I have a hard time just existing with them.
00:06:34
Speaker
I kind of, I can understand, based on the house we have, it's a nice house, but it's not situated well for, like, we don't have a room for the kids to go play and do their toys in. We don't have a playroom, it's all the same area. It's like our kitchen and the TV, like, rec room area is all just one big room. Yeah.
00:06:51
Speaker
And so whenever they make a mess, it's like they're drawing pictures and it's just covering the dinner table. Yeah. well like We don't have a ton of space for them to go and play and make a mess in a certain specific area. Right. And you can like close the door and be like, this is the room where the mess is. Yeah. Like the mess is at the kitchen table. It's in the living room. And I can see it all from the kitchen where I usually am, like doing stuff, the dishes, most most of the time. And so I feel like part of the struggle And I think that this was especially a huge problem for me during the pandemic yeah when we were home all day, every day. And I felt like it was just snacks all day, every day. And we couldn't really leave the house and go anywhere. yeah And we had just one space kind of for the kids to play and.
00:07:39
Speaker
It just is like, no matter what, it was never clean. That honestly was so hard on me mentally. I feel like I really had to face a lot of my big triggers in that time. During that time, I had some huge equipment installs that I was gone for like months on end. So I felt like my entire job was just cleaning after the kids. And I still feel like that sometimes when we're home, you know, like when we're working, we don't have that, which is one of the ways that I find work is good for my mental health because I just, I find that to be very difficult. And that is a part of having kids is that it is messy. So I know that like, we'll get there, but a piece of what's been helpful for me is just trying to, as we call us therapists, radically accept some of these things that we
Accepting Messiness and Seeking Help
00:08:22
Speaker
can't change. And one of the things I can't change is the fact that kids are messy. Like that's just part of it. I feel like that's kind of their job. Yeah, exactly. And it's their job. And I don't want to be the mom who's like, don't make a mess. Meanwhile, it's a child's job to play and make messes. Yeah. And again, I think it's just our house is not, we don't have like a big house with lots of rooms for them to, or like a specific playroom or anything. It's just where we are existing. Yeah. But no matter if you have a playroom or not, I mean, the amount of snacks children require and had dinner, like it's just, it's going to be messy. Yep. So I think for me, having the break at work where I can have cleanliness is actually nice and I feel a little more equipped to handle it. But I do find it hard because we get home and then we make dinner and then immediately it's mess. It's funny you say that. Have you seen your desk? I have actually go look at it. It's very tidy right now. Is it clean today? Yes. Ever since I switched desks, it's been great. Oh, that's good.
00:09:16
Speaker
Are you annoyed with this conversation now? Yes. I want to try to make a point. and You keep interrupting me. I lost my train of thought now. Oh boy. Okay. Anyway, I think going to work is good for my mental wellbeing in that way. Yeah. Cause when I was home full time with the kids, I struggled with that.
00:09:32
Speaker
But I still struggle with it on the weekends and in the evenings. And so I kind of wanted to talk about it today to see if you can help me unpack like what's going on with me. Like, why is this such a struggle? I feel like there's so many things in parenthood that I, I'm able to cope with so well. Like we've talked about sleepless nights. I can handle that. Yeah. Mess is always the one that you struggle with the most. Yeah. So I've obviously thought about this a lot to try and understand why and some tools that have helped me because I know a lot of parents listening to this, if I talk to parents, like mess being a trigger is one of the biggest triggers for so many parents. So I think there's a couple of things. First, I think I get easily overstimulated by like just the look of it.
00:10:17
Speaker
And I think that that is a sensitivity that we can have. Like I am more sensitive to even like lights, right? Like we've talked about that on other podcasts. Like the big lights being on all day, that's going to overstimulate me. I'm going to be really sensitive to that. So it makes sense that along that same note, when there's visual clutter everywhere, like there's things on the counter, there's things all over the floor, there's mass everywhere, that that also would feel overstimulating and overwhelming just to the senses.
00:10:44
Speaker
And I think especially when I'm talking about dinnertime, like that's the time i I start to get most overwhelmed. And I struggled to like sit at the table and eat with the kids because I just know the counters a mess from the dishes. The kids are making a mess all over the floor. Like it's just like mess central at three children at dinnertime.
00:11:03
Speaker
I think the visual clutter is so high and it's also, I have less capacity because it's the end of the day. they're At breakfast, I don't feel the same way. Usually I'm okay with it, but by dinner, I'm like, I'm toast. So I think that's one piece that's really difficult for me. I think the other piece is because I'm more irritated by the mess. I'm usually the one to start to clean it up. Whereas you're not as irritated by it. So your fine's like, Oh, I'll leave it and I'll clean it up in a little bit. Like you will clean it, yeah but I am more like, I want to do it right now.
00:11:30
Speaker
Yeah. I'm more the one that wants to clean it once the kids are in bed. Cause I feel like we only have a limited amount of time to right but i actually spend with them. But I feel like I can't rest and spend time with them until it's clean. Yeah. So we have different things. So then I think when I'm seeing the kids spill Cheerios on the floor and now they've spilled milk on top of the Cheerios and now there's like rice everywhere. Like all I'm seeing is like, this is work for you. Jess, you're going to have to clean this all up and you're going to be the only one to do it. And then I start to feel frustrated because I'm like, I'm the only one here. And I know it's not true, but this is where my mind goes. I'm the only one here that's going to be cleaning up this mess. This is so annoying. It's going to take me 45 minutes to clean up dinner. No one's going to help me. They're all going to be playing. And my mind goes through that, even if that's not true. And I used to be really bad for then I would just start to rage clean and I wouldn't ask anybody for help. I would just be like, if I'm going to do it, then I might as well just get started.
00:12:25
Speaker
Now I feel like I'm a little better at being like, hey, everyone, we're all going to clean up dinner together. Let's do it as a team. So that's helped a lot. But I think a lot of parents who truly are like, I actually have you as a really great partner, but I do need to tell you what I need. But a lot of parents truly are the only ones who are the ones cleaning up all day. And so of course, when your child's making a mess and you're already feeling overwhelmed and overstimulated and you're like, I'm the only one that's going to be cleaning this, yeah it makes sense that that would feel triggering. I feel like you can even get deeper with that always. Always. And I feel like the even deeper level of I'm the only one cleaning this is just this feeling for me of a lack of control over the situation. And I think mess often signals this lack of control.
00:13:13
Speaker
Like I can put boundaries in place, we can put expectations, we can teach them to do chores and stuff like that, all important. But I can't control how they eat and spill rice all over the floor. And that's their job, to make a mess with toys everywhere or to see what happens if they take a marker and color on the wall, which happened to us the other day. Like those are all their jobs as kids and that's all out of my control. So if you are someone like me who does tend to lean towards the being a perfectionist, wanting to control things and have things a certain way, having kids is a test of releasing a lot of that control and that can be really hard.
00:13:48
Speaker
Yeah. Cause I feel like you very easily could put undue pressure or unnecessary pressure on your children to constantly be clean. And I don't know if this is based in any fact at all, but my theory is as soon as you force your kids into becoming these like neat freaks that are, they have to do things a very specific way, you start to stifle their creativity.
00:14:14
Speaker
I feel that. And I think that's another piece why it's so hard for me because I do believe in, and we can talk about this more, holding children responsible for cleaning up their own messes. yeah But I truly don't believe in stopping them from making messes and getting angry at them for just being children whose job is to play and be creative and yeah make messes and be loud and be silly. All the things that overstimulate me yeah is their job. so I think that's also where it gets really hard because my own feeling in my body conflicts with my values. So then I feel like I have to try and like push that down. Yeah. Well, it's even our middle daughter the other day, she wanted to help get our, yeah like the toddler some milk. And so she took the cup out and she took the milk. We have milk jugs here and like.
00:14:59
Speaker
bags of milk that we put inside of a jug. Yeah. It's Ontario, Canada. That's what we do. Yeah. Look it up. And she set it all up and I could see her from the corner and she did it really well, but she spilled the milk everywhere and she was pouring it. Right. And then brought the cup of milk over and then she's like, I'll clean it up. But I feel like if we were worried about that, like you could potentially tend to say, no, I'll just do it. And so you don't make a mess. Absolutely. I have said that. But for me, I'm seeing that and I'm seeing her build motor control because she's trying her hardest to get it into the cup and she's missing a little bit or she's pouring a little bit too much and all of a sudden it shoots out further. So I'm seeing all of these connections building in her brain as she's doing that because because she was making the mess. Yeah.
00:15:47
Speaker
And now I'll bet you the next time she does that on her own, it'll probably go a little bit better. And she'll just continually get better and better until she's no longer is spilling. And I feel like that's a better way for her to learn than us to be like, no, here, I'll hold it with you. Yeah. Because it's, I mean, the reality is she spills ah like a tablespoon of milk. Who cares?
00:16:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's easy to clean up. And if we never give our kids chances to make a mess and try it on their own, then how are they going to learn to do it on their own either? And so I feel like that's again, like one of the big tests in parenting for me is like, I have to allow them to do these things and make messes and try. And like another good example is cutting things. Like they're very into cutting things right now. Which is great. Again, good skills to build, motor skills, all that kind of stuff. But man, is there tiny pieces of paper everywhere in our house. And last week I felt like I was getting ragey because I just kept stepping on these tiny pieces of paper and they're getting stuck on my bare feet.
00:16:44
Speaker
And I was like, ah, kids, just clean up your paper. You know, I was getting so mad without having taken a step back and being like, okay, it's fine if they cut, but I can actually set the boundary in advance that, hey, if you're going to cut up paper, it's also your responsibility to clean it up and and do it at the kitchen table. Yeah. And you keep it at the kitchen table. Right. So there's parameters around. Yeah. I can put those parameters in place and I need to follow through with them. And there's a piece of me releasing control. So I think both are true in this situation. So why do you think he mess such a trigger though for you? Like you say it's a lack of control, whatever. Is that what you were like as a kid too? You required things to be orderly or you required things to be clean or like what caused that in you? As a kid, I was not clean at all. My parents always have have a clean house. Like they value being clean.
00:17:37
Speaker
Now or than to then too? Then too. Okay. I feel like they were always clean. My mom always had boundaries. I think that were very appropriate in place. Like you have to make your bed in the morning. That was a boundary and I will do the same boundary with the girls as they get a little bigger. You even have that boundary with me. I have that boundary with you. Like I actually think things like making your bed in the morning. I'm so glad I learned that from my parents because I think that there are certain things about having that that kind of routine to your day. Like I get out of bed and make it right away. And for me, that's always just been something I've done since a child.
00:18:07
Speaker
And so I would say my parents had a clean house and we had a lot of responsibility around helping things stay clean. So we did chores as a family on Saturdays. So everyone had a job and I value that still and I would do that with the kids. I think what was hard for me and what I'm still unpacking about myself is that I like things clean, but I really struggle with organization. And I don't know what that is mentally about me, but I feel like there's something there.
Organization, Self-Worth, and Parenting
00:18:33
Speaker
But I've always struggled to just be organized and keep things like whether it's the files on my computer to the sheets in our closet. I struggle with the organization part of it. My brain struggles with that.
00:18:46
Speaker
I don't know what that is. And I wonder always, I also always struggled with like math and spelling. And I don't know if all of that connects or not, but that's been something I've been really thinking about lately. I'm like, I wonder if all that all connects. Cause I've always been good at certain subjects like English and psychology, all that kind of stuff. But I've struggled in other areas that requires a little more like mental organization, like math and even spelling. Like I would always get a couple of letters mixed up and I always would struggle also with just organizing my own self.
00:19:16
Speaker
So I was like that as a kid and I was often teased for it. By my family, I think they thought it was cute. Like I think they were teasing me not in a way that was malicious to them at all. Like they thought I was cute and unorganized and I don't hold it against them because I understand that they just thought they were being funny. But I think for me, the way they tease me calling me messy Jesse all the time hurt and made me not want to ever be messy.
00:19:43
Speaker
And so even when you were just joking right now about my desk, like that wasn't funny to me because that that does trigger me, right? Like I don't find jokes about me being messy funny, even though I know I could lighten up on it. And my family knows this. This is something that they will still sometimes bring up and they know that as soon as it's brought up, it's like, it's immediately too far. Like I'm, your face drops instantly. Like they bring that joke up and instantly I'm like, no, that's not funny to me. I don't enjoy that. And I just, it's always something I've struggled with. So I think when you say, is there something deeper there? I'm sure being a child who struggled to keep myself organized and my room organized, even though I did value being clean, I'm still have that inside of me as an adult. And I don't know necessarily it's my own journey that I'm on right now. Why that part of my brain struggles so much with the organization and and all of that. And so I think it comes out and like, I want to be clean. I don't, like those jokes about me and I don't want to have a messy house and I feel better when it's clean but it's also a struggle.
00:20:46
Speaker
Does that make any sense? What do you think? What's your take on that? I mean, you were even just teasing me now and I didn't respond well to it, so you've seen that. So I apologize. It's okay. Is it? We'll see. We'll see, yeah, exactly. No, I mean, and for the most part, I take jokes. I'm very self-deprecating, so I take jokes about myself very well. Like, I have a very self-deprecating sense of humor, but for whatever reason, that one gets me. Yeah, now people know your kryptonite. That's my kryptonite.
00:21:16
Speaker
Now they know. And I know it gets me because there's truth to it. But I think the thing, and I know everyone's going to be diagnosing me with something, listening to this. Yeah, I'm sure. Because I already get that all the time. And I don't know because I have never got assessed for anything. So, you know, maybe there's something there, but I don't know because I have never taken that path for myself. But it's just something that I have been thinking about a lot lately because of those struggles that I have.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't know. When I compare myself to you, like, we're just so different. Yeah, we're very different. Like, to you, organizing, you just visualize it in your brain like, boom, that's how it should be organized. Or math. That always came so easy to you, whereas, like, I struggled. Like, it took me, it was so hard for me to learn that kind of thing. I did it, but it was like, I needed intensive tutoring and support. Whereas something like writing, English, psychology, that all just comes, like, it just clicks for me right away. So, I don't know.
00:22:11
Speaker
Well, I think for me, the organizational piece has been ingrained in me, mostly because of the chaotic childhood that I had. I can pinpoint the fact that it was 100% a way to cope with that and try and make order out of chaos for me.
00:22:26
Speaker
And it's still very satisfying for me, even now, organizing things, having things in their place. It just feels comforting to my body and my mind yeah to have things in their proper place. yeah But I feel like I have lived in like a mess that is hard for people to understand. Yeah, maybe that's the difference. The level of mess that I lived in that like anything that we deal with in our house is basically nothingness. And they feel like that's the difference between us. It's inconsequential to me. Like it's so little. And I know like the dishes will take five to 10 minutes. Cleaning up the toys will take like two minutes. Right. Whereas for you, like not to speak from you, but like you had like days of dishes piled up. um Yeah. we It would, when we cleaned up like fully, it would take us hours, hours and hours to just clean up the mess in our home.
00:23:15
Speaker
So for you, you're like just, it's literally just the dinner dishes that are sitting in the sink. It's going to take us five minutes and we have a dishwasher. You know, like it'll take us five minutes to put in the dishwasher. So I think that's where our mentalities are so different around mess. You're like, this mess is nothing. yeah It's a wipe of the counter and five minutes putting something in the dishwasher. yeah Whereas for me growing up in a cleaner home, I'm like, no, I just like, I would like to maintain a level of cleanliness at all times.
00:23:41
Speaker
That's also probably the reason why I'm adamant about not having more than we need. So if there are things that we never use, we try and donate it or sell it on marketplace or do something, we get rid of it because it's not necessary for us. Because it just, I know, based on what I grew up in, the more stuff you have, the more difficult it is to actually stay clean. I wonder, I'm i'm kind of thinking about everything that we've been talking about. And I wonder if for me, part of the mess is like tying my, how good of a job I'm doing as a mom to like the tidiness of my house. Like, I don't know if there's like a piece of like worth that's tied into it of like, I feel like I'm doing a good job and everything's going well and smooth when it's all clean and we're just like nice and calmly playing. Like to me, that's like the ultimate. Whereas you don't have your worth or like any value or anything like that tied up in, in how messy it is. Cause you're like, no, it's good. The kids are playing. That's good. That's what they're supposed to do. Oh, we had food. We had dinner as a family. Like, I feel like we have two different lenses that we see it from probably because of my own issues with like organization and stuff as a kid. I'm like.
00:24:50
Speaker
No, like I want to be good. I want it to be organized. I want it to be clean I want to feel good about myself Whereas your childhood was super messy and like not clean at all Whereas you're like no like look our kids have toys to play with we had a dinner as a family around the table Like how great is that like this is positive? So we view it from different lenses Yeah, and I mean, if we have people over, I'll try and make sure it's clean and not dirty and like, I'll wipe things down and yeah vacuum because I also don't love having stuff stuck to the bottom of my feet. No, and I mean, nobody does. so
00:25:25
Speaker
But there's different levels, right? There's like my level, that's like the second I have it, it's like raging. Our little office that we had in the bay. Do you remember that? Like when we first started dating in high school? Okay. Do you remember our downstairs office? What that was like sometimes? Yeah. It was like literally stuff covering the entire floor, the entire desk. And that's on growing up in two different Yeah, we houses we did not have that like nice, neat, clean house. It was the exact opposite. Well, I remember you loved coming to my parents' house because it was always clean. it and And maybe that's like part of, too, what I'm trying to recreate. I actually really loved that about my childhood. is like My house always was clean. We always were ready for visitors. like We were always kind of in that state. My parents have and had an open door policy. People were always in and out.
00:26:11
Speaker
So are you then remembering what your house growing up was like as like a teenager and into like when you were in university and that's what you're remembering? Because I i question how clean was it actually when there were three of you and you're like, yeah, seven, five and two.
00:26:30
Speaker
I have talked to my mom about it. And I do think being clean is always important to her, but she has told me to stress less. So even my own mom is like, Jess, you got to stress less about this mess. like And a mantra my own mom told me that helped was like, toy mess takes five minutes. And that that's helped me actually so much. My mom said that to me because I called her once and the house was such a mess. And our daughter, i we had a baby at the time and I'm just like, Mom, I can't handle it. There's toys everywhere.
00:27:01
Speaker
She goes, Jess, I always just remind myself, toy mess takes five minutes. Just visualize, yeah, sure, it's everywhere. It looks so chaotic. Do you set a timer? In five minutes, this is cleaned up. Yeah. So that has always helped me when it seems like there's toys everywhere. It's just like, Jess, this is clean in five minutes. So like, don't stress for two hours about it when you can clean it in five minutes. Let the kids be kids. Legitimately, even if they dump all of our little square bins that we have with all the toys,
00:27:29
Speaker
It doesn't even take five minutes. If it's all of us doing it together, it takes us two minutes to do it. That's generous. Put the books back on the bookshelf. We don't have that much stuff that it would take us that long. So on that note, I wanted to share some of the strategies because I know a lot of parents relate to mess being a huge trigger for them. And I think that there's some strategies that yes, I still struggle with this. I'll be honest, like it's still something that I internally have to work through and I don't rage as much to the kids anymore. Like sometimes. No, just to me. yeah To you sometimes.
00:28:01
Speaker
But you know what's happening and sometimes you're like, Jess has just got to ride this out. And it's, it's always worse when there's other things in my environment that are chaotic. Like work is stressful. yeah It comes out and rage cleaning the house. And sometimes that movement is just like what I need. So sometimes you're like, I'm just going to let Jess do this. We don't talk. I just cleaned the whole thing after the kids are in bed. And then I sit down and like,
00:28:23
Speaker
Okay, now I can talk to you. What's up? So sometimes I just need that, but I no longer get so angry at the kids about it. And I want to share a couple of things that have really helped me. So that mantra about the toys taking five minutes, that has helped me a lot. And I just repeat that to myself and I feel overwhelmed with that. Having some boundaries with the children around different things has helped me. So for example, one of the boundaries that we recently set was we can only eat food at the kitchen table. Cause I found myself getting so frustrated cause it's like,
00:28:52
Speaker
girls spill yogurt on the couch or we have yeah a big salsa stain on the carpet. Yeah. Again, the problem is we have just one like open room. Yeah. So the girls would take their chips and salsa and wander over to the living room. And now I have salsa on my carpet or ketchup or whatever. And then I'm getting angry, but I'm realizing, wait, that's not fair because I haven't set that boundary with the kids. I haven't told them. Yeah. And I would say that's a realistic bet. Like that makes sense. yeah It's a logical boundary to have.
00:29:19
Speaker
logical boundaries. place And we told the kids, Hey, some things are changing. One of the things are like, we have to eat at the table. yeah We're making too many spills on the carpet and the couch. And it's important that we sit at the table and we're trying to be better at family meals. So not just like whipping them a bowl of cereal and saying, okay, go sit on the couch and eat it. ah No, like we're going to have family meals. I mean, we did it, but we did it. I mean, I felt like as snacks, especially. You know what I think made the biggest difference for us? So we did two things. One, we said we eat at the kitchen table. yeah We also had stools at our island and we actually sold those. yeah And I would say since we got rid of those, huge the amount of mess that we've had with respect to food or like even the stuff they're playing with, now they don't have the opportunity to sit at the island. yeah
00:30:09
Speaker
So the island is literally just for cooking and that's it. That made a huge difference. So we sold the stools that we had and we said we only eat at the kitchen table. And I think that has made a huge difference for us.
00:30:21
Speaker
huge like massive difference. I think the thing with the island stools was now sometimes they were sitting at the island to eat so then there's all food dropped on the floor underneath the island and then sometimes they're sitting at the table and like there's so many different spots and the island stools were causing more clutter. Yeah. They were never nicely tucked in, the girls were tripping over them so. Yeah they fell off them too many times that But yeah, they kept falling off them. So that actually has really decreased our frustration. Along that note, talking about the clutter, we've also been purging a lot of toys and donating them. yeah So that also is helpful, I would say. Like if you're finding yourself getting overwhelmed often with the mess, ask yourself, like, do I really need all of these toys?
00:31:04
Speaker
And you can do a toy rotation. I've done that before too, where it's like, okay, let's put some toys away. we'll We'll tuck them in storage. And then once a month, we'll switch them out. That way there's new toys coming out. Like you could do that. You could donate some toys if you have extras to donate. Of course, I know that's like a privileged position as well, but I know the girls for us, they would just get a lot of gifts from people. Yeah. We rarely buy them any toys. When's the last time we purchased a toy from them? Did we even get them? Yeah, we got like a little one for Christmas. Yeah. But that was it.
00:31:33
Speaker
like Scott and I try and be pretty minimalist, but they also have a lot of aunts and uncles and grandparents. Again, a huge privilege who give them toys that fill up the space. And when you don't have a big playroom space and that's all in your shared family space, which is totally fine and very normal, it can feel very overwhelming when it feels like everywhere you look there's this big giant toy. So we've been purging a lot of the toys and I think that's been really helpful too for both of us and for the kids. Now I find they have less toys and they play better. There's less visual clutter for them as well. Something else I found really helpful when I was a stay at home mom, and that's probably when the peak of this mess struggle hit me, was building in routines and rhythms around when I cleaned.
Managing Chaos and Finding Balance
00:32:16
Speaker
Because I found when I first became a stay at home mom, I just, like I explained earlier, I felt like all I did was clean all day long. right I'm cleaning up snacks, I'm cleaning up bottles, I'm cleaning up toys. And I felt like I never had a chance to just sit and rest or play with my kids. So I started building in little rhythms in my day about when I would clean. So they could play with toys all morning and then right before nap time or before lunch, I would tidy up all the toys with them. So now before lunch, everything's tidy. We're starting from a blank slate.
00:32:45
Speaker
After lunch, we would do all the lunch dishes, and when they napped, I would try and take a little rest myself. And then the next time I would clean up all the toys would be right before dinner. So just having those two times in the day when I knew that's when I was gonna tidy up and start fresh again, that helped me not feel like I just constantly had to be cleaning up as they're playing all day long. So having little little rhythms built in.
00:33:09
Speaker
something else that helped me when I was a stay-at-home mom feeling really overwhelmed by this was just having little baskets in different rooms where let's say there just be laundry like sometimes the kids just start taking off their clothes throwing it on the floor and you're like why is there dirty pants on the floor and why dirty dresses everywhere. So I'd have little baskets that I could just throw things like the dirty dresses, the socks, so that it wasn't just on the floor. We have one in every bedroom. Yeah. one Which makes sense. Yeah. We have a basket in every bedroom and a basket in the living room. And then at the end of the day, I could take all the clothes upstairs and put them near the laundry. So again, it's just like a little thing. So it reduces the visual clutter. It has a spot to go, but you don't have to constantly be going up and down, bringing things to the laundry basket all day. So that also really helped me. Is there anything else that you found helpful or you think has helped me? I don't know what's helpful for me. Like I said at the beginning, I like the idea of Mi Sun Plus where it's everything has its place. Yeah, that's helped. I've tried to implement that and we have a spot for like all of the coloring stuff. Yep. And we even have it separated by like we have markers in one bin, crayons in another, pencil crayons in another. And we know like,
00:34:23
Speaker
our youngest really shouldn't be playing with the markers because they end up on the wall. So we have them kind of separated in different spots for that. Yeah. So that little piece of organization has helped because now it's like, well, when the toddler's coloring, we're just going to take out the crayons. yep Okay. The toddler's napping older girls. You may play with the markers cause you're not going to color on the wall with them or lose the cap. So simple little changes like that to just eliminate your need to get frustrated and say, ah, you've lost all the caps for the markers.
00:34:52
Speaker
those types of things have definitely helped as well. And then I will say something else that's been helpful, it's kind of like a two-parter, is A, asking for support and cleaning when I'm starting to feel overwhelmed. It's like we talked about in the Why Are You So Defensive episode. You can't read my mind.
00:35:07
Speaker
Yeah. So if I'm starting to feel like, Oh my goodness, this is all on me to clean this up instead of just raging about it. It's a quick question. Hey, Scott, do you think we we could clean this up together and then we can play with the girls together? It's quick. It's easy. You're always willing to help, but you can't read my mind if I'm like getting angry about it. Right. Well, and sometimes I'll say, well, maybe let's do this after so we can play with the kids first.
00:35:29
Speaker
Yeah. And then sometimes for me, I just have to be okay with that. And there is a piece of just accepting the chaos. That's very hard, yep but it is an important part of parenting. It will change over time. Kids become less chaotic the older they grow up. Exactly. And someday we'll miss it, right?
00:35:46
Speaker
i think of because that There's that trace ad. Kin song, it's like a country song. It's like, you're going to miss this. I don't know that. Oh, we'll listen to it after. It's about, you're gonna miss this, you're gonna want this back. And I always laugh and I think like in the most chaotic moments of parenting, I'm like, am I I'm gonna miss a lot of things, but I don't know if I'll miss it all. Certain aspects of it we will miss, for sure.
00:36:08
Speaker
Absolutely. Like when we live in a perfectly clean house where everything's organized and put away, I think we're going to miss the days that we're filled with this chaos. yeah And so I do try and remember that. Like yeah it's chaos, but that means the kids have had food and that's such a privilege. They have toys. That's such a privilege. They have the ability to play. That's such a privilege. I know you're rolling your eyes.
00:36:29
Speaker
But I find that those little mindset shifts help me. yeah Maybe they don't help you, but like remembering what mess means. It means that they're having the amazing childhood where they feel safe enough to play. And that's the most important thing, right? What does dinner dishes mean? It means that we were able to feed our children a meal and spend time with them and nourish their little bodies, you know? Like, it's easy to look at mess and be like, it's just chaos and they don't care about the house and, you know, these little brats, they just are spoiled rotten. yeah But that's not what it is. Probably have to think of that outside of the moment, especially for yourself. I need to practice that mentality so that in the moment I can access that mantra. Because if I'm not actively thinking about this and reflecting about it outside of the moment, there's no way in the moment that I can do that.
00:37:17
Speaker
Yep. And I think for parents too, who feel like, cause I felt this way and I have no friends of ours have expressed this, that your body's on fire when that mess and that overstimulation hits. Maybe ah also taking a moment for yourself to just pause.
Reflections on Parenting and Personal Growth
00:37:31
Speaker
And like for me, sometimes I literally have to go upstairs to the bathroom and take a break from all the chaos because the mess just adds to the chaos. Turn the lights off, take some deep breaths so that I can come back in, like yeah right regulating that feeling in your body too. Well,
00:37:45
Speaker
I think that's a lot of tips. That's a lot of tips. Take what feels right, leave the rest. But I hope that this episode helped you and it helped me reflect on some of the reasons why this is hard and know the work that I have to continue to do in order to work on this figure. Even Jess has to continue working on herself.
00:38:05
Speaker
Even me. I feel like I'm always working on myself, but it is his life. That's what it's an important part of parenting. And I know we're always picking on Scott, so it's probably good that there was a chance. Are we? I don't know. I blacked out during these. I don't remember any of what we talked about. Yeah. Well, usually we're talking about your trauma and triggers. Oh, true. yeah True.
00:38:25
Speaker
Anyway, let us know if you can relate to this at all and if there's anything that you found helpful in terms of mess and clutter and coping with that as a parent. We'd love to hear about it. Yeah. Thanks for listening. I'll talk soon.
00:38:40
Speaker
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We are glad that you are here. If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review. Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all. A five star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.