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Is Teaching Your Partner About Parenting Exhausting You?
4.7k Plays3 days ago
In this episode, Jess and Scott answer a listener's question about sharing the mental load of parenting. Jess talks about times when she felt like she carried most of the mental load and how Scott and her now split the work of parenting. They discuss the challenges of balancing roles, especially when one parent feels like the default decision-maker, educator, and emotional support.
Key takeaways for listeners include:
- How to approach conversations about mental load in a way that strengthens your partnership.
- Strategies to encourage reluctant partners to engage more fully in the parenting journey.
- Ideas for setting boundaries and creating shared responsibilities so neither parent feels solely responsible.
Whether you feel overwhelmed as the default parent or want to be a more engaged partner, this episode offers practical wisdom for creating a united parenting team. Don't miss Jess and Scott's candid discussion of their own parenting journey and struggles!
During the episode, Jess mentions an episode with Josh, a skeptical dad. You can listen to his episode here.
Want more support on your parenting journey? Check out our incredible blog full of articles & advice here.
Get 10% OFF parenting courses and kids' printable activities at Nurtured First using the code ROBOTUNICORN.
We’d love to hear from you! Have questions you want us to answer on Robot Unicorn? Send us an email: [email protected].
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Transcript
Evening Recap and Child's Injury
00:00:00
Speaker
How was your night last night? Is that a leading question? Yeah, that was a very leading question. ah My night was fine, actually. Oh, okay. Other than some concern that I had for our youngest, but how was it?
00:00:14
Speaker
to How was your night, Jessica? Uh, it was not great. um Tell me why, please. This is a quick aside and we'll get into the episode, but yesterday our youngest and our second youngest were playing and then the middle child pulled the youngest arm. And anyway, she ended up pulling out her elbow. So I had to drive her to the emergency room, but it was during rush hour. So it was like.
00:00:39
Speaker
Took me over an hour to get her to even the emergency room. She screamed the whole time scream for like two and a half straight hours. It was a quick fix. Thankfully it was best case scenario. So I was very grateful for that. It's like the nurse maid's elbow. A lot of kids have it. It wasn't very fun coming home to that. Yeah. It was a ah tough night. It's always hard to watch your kids be in so much pain and then to watch the older sister be so sad that she hurt the younger sister. I just felt like today, just a little tired and like emotionally drained. after that. So I just wanted to see that when she cried for a long time. Yeah. Very hard. It was a lot of validating a lot of holding space for feelings. So I just want to name that as we're entering into the episode that I'm in a interesting emotional space today.
00:01:19
Speaker
Okay.
Podcast Plans and Listener Questions
00:01:20
Speaker
What do you think of our new setup? Hopefully people are fans of this one. We end up at some point in the future. Who knows when launch some video. We are planning just so everyone knows. Cause a lot of you ask us all the time, when are you going to release the full video? We will. We are planning on releasing the full video of the podcast, but it's just, it does take a lot of time on the back end to do it. But hopefully this new setup we have, if you're obviously listening and not seeing it, we have a beautiful table. That was a great auction find. Scott found it on a- I'm slightly addicted to these auction sites online. Oh boy. Scott's addicted to the online auction sites. Not actually addicted, but he does enjoy. He does enjoy to be on. I enjoy perusing them to see what's on there. He enjoys to peruse it. Honestly, this one, I thought it could be a complete piece of garbage. This is a beautiful table. I kind of went for a house. Imagine a family. It's too heavy. I'm not moving it again. Well, fine. But I do really like it. All right. Let's get into the actual episode. Please.
00:02:22
Speaker
Welcome to Robot Unicorn. Today, we're starting the show with a question from you.
00:02:31
Speaker
We have received a lot of interesting, kind, thought-provoking emails over the past, just over half a year now that we've started this podcast. And we are going to base this episode on a question or a few questions, I guess, kind of all related to each other from a listener whose name is Janelle. Thank you very much, Janelle, for reaching out to us. ah Just because of the length of it, I'm going to paraphrase a few parts of it just so we can be a little more specific on the question. but yeah It's a very interesting set of questions she has here. So this is directed to you, Jess. Do you ever feel that you are the one doing all the behind the scenes work of parenting? For example, do you feel that you are always needing to guide Scott, me, or tell him how to respond in certain situations, why you respond in a certain way, et cetera, just because you're the one with the background knowledge?
00:03:23
Speaker
So for context, this person is a pediatric occupational therapist. So child development is something that they understand, but their husband doesn't have that understanding, which is, I mean, the same as how I am too. I learned it through you, but so this person Janelle's constantly finding they have to guide their husband and it's leading to like exhaustion or it's just a lot of work, right? You're kind of the one that carries the work of parenting and constantly trying to guide your partner in how they should do things.
00:03:51
Speaker
So how do you navigate this? And do you have any suggestions? Because Janelle feels like they're not the only parent that feels this way. So she felt like it was a good question to ask, which I agree. This is ah quite interesting.
00:04:02
Speaker
Yeah. Thank you so much, Janelle. First off, I think that was an incredible question. As soon as it came in, we were actually about to record a different podcast when this email came in, I think last week and immediately Scott and
Parenting Responsibilities and Mental Load
00:04:13
Speaker
I read the email. We're like, we're doing an episode on this. This is such a good topic. So thank you. And I think so many parents can probably relate to the feeling of one of the partners taking on the mental load or the load of parenting and making decisions around discipline. Like I would say outside of you and I, we'll talk about our experience, but even in my private practice, so often it's just one parent, sometimes the mom, sometimes the dad, a different partner, taking on the responsibility of kind of the child rearing and the way that they're going to discipline and then relaying that information back to the other parent. And especially if the other parent is a skeptic, like someone in this room was, it can be a lot because you feel like you're constantly having to kind of explain your rationale.
00:04:57
Speaker
I think we were in a unique situation from my perspective in that you were very open to hearing my suggestions. So I think Scott and I, as hard as it is to grow up in trauma, and it's not to ever, you know, say that that's not hard, but there was a piece of you that was like, I already know I don't want to parent in the same way that I was raised.
00:05:18
Speaker
Yeah, right. Like you had already determined you wanted a different approach. So yes, I had to do a lot of teaching and yes, you were skeptical about things, but you came into it with an open heart and an open mind of like, you were willing to learn a different approach because you knew you didn't want to spank and you didn't want to yell and you didn't want to do those cycles. So there was. I saw how clearly ineffective a lot of things were that I was raised with. Yeah. A lot of other people were raised with too. And so yes, I would say when we started parenting and especially when we started having tantrums and child sleep issues, I feel like it was really around that toddler age. So it was, I don't know, two years old, roughly maybe a little bit older.
Disciplinary Approaches and Tantrums
00:05:55
Speaker
I don't know. Somewhere around that, that timeframe where all of a sudden it started to really kick in. You have a toddler having meltdowns all day. Yeah, exactly. And we've shared the story before, but we can share it again. There was a certain point in time where we hadn't had too many conversations actually about discipline. I had worked always with parents and in behavior. So I think it was kind of known that when the time would happen, we would talk about it. We just hadn't really talked about it. And then our toddler was in the middle of having all sorts of tantrums and meltdowns and was angry about everything, which is interesting now in hindsight, because now our third daughter is there and it's so much easier to navigate.
00:06:30
Speaker
But when the oldest is there, it's your first time. And so for you, it was your first time really being around a toddler that had that many emotions. And so yes, you had an open heart, but you also didn't know how to respond. So you had said to me, Jess, like how do we respond to tantrums? And why wouldn't we send her to timeout?
00:06:47
Speaker
Yeah, because it tells her in my mind, it was a distinct way of telling her, hey, what you're doing is wrong. And there's a consequence to that action. Right. So that was the logic that I had in my mind. And that kind of made sense. The one thing that I'd say made sense to me at that point was you have a consequence to an action like a tantrum and hitting or whatever.
00:07:08
Speaker
And yeah, timeout or not necessarily spanking. Cause I would never, I would never have done that. i was never on the table That was never on the table for me. Cause again, I saw how ineffective that actually was. Yeah. I thought that it would make sense to have a consequence like that. Yeah. So I'd say earlier on in our parenting journey, it was definitely a lot of Scott having questions or being like, well, why wouldn't we do a consequence? Why wouldn't we do time out? And so I think it was a little bit heavier on me educating you at that time.
00:07:33
Speaker
Now I do think it's important to point out though, I was traveling constantly. So I was home maybe 50% of the year, the other 50% I was gone. So I would be home on most weekends, pretty much every weekend, and
Travel Challenges and Active Parenting
00:07:47
Speaker
then half of the weeks I would be home. But my job was so involved that you were still taking our oldest two daycare, you were the one still kind of raising them. And I often felt like I was coming into a situation where I was sort of interrupting the flow of how you're already parenting, yes right? So it's not really comparing apples to apples when you have two parents that are home all the time all the time and you're still having issues agreeing on or one parent sort of being the default in terms of disciplining or taking care of the kids. I don't know. It's exactly apples to apples. Like I tried, but then I often felt like I was just not. Yeah, I think because you were traveling so much when you got home, I already had a whole. So I didn't want to mess with that flow either. I think that's the case for a lot of parents who stay at home and the other parent works, like whether or not they travel all the time. But if they're the stay at home parent and the other parents working, usually during the day, they have some kind of systems, some ways of responding, and then their partner gets home from work and they do something totally different. And this kind of feeling can come up of, Oh, now I have to educate them and all of that.
00:08:49
Speaker
So anyway, when our toddler was little, then I started educating you a lot on the child development and understanding her brain, which was huge for you at the time. And I think that since then you have been invested as well. I actively try to learn a lot of things because of that.
00:09:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I would say that's something I've always appreciated from you is that I feel like we have been partners, even though I often will tell you, Hey, this is how I'd respond if she's worried or this is, you know, I feel like you have taken an active role in trying to learn more on your own time as well.
00:09:23
Speaker
Like I don't feel like I'm the only one teaching you these things. Do you think that's fair? Yeah, I think in general that is just the way I am. I like to know things, like to learn about them. I am by no means do I think I'm an expert in anything that I do. I want to constantly learn how to be better.
00:09:39
Speaker
And that
Reflecting on Parenting Styles
00:09:40
Speaker
includes parenting. I had a conversation with a friend recently about parenting and how I think my upbringing, although terrible, kind of made it easier for me to understand that the way I parent, I'm kind of a blank slate at this point. I understand that there's certain things that I will do inherently because it's ingrained in me, but because I know that I'm actively reflecting on how I parent the kids in a day. And I'll know, hey, I didn't do that quite properly, either apologize to them or change it the next time. But for someone who had good parents, like someone who had parents that they could look up to and who wants a parent in a similar way, it's harder to then find things that, I don't know, you want to do differently because your default is to just do everything in the same way that your parents did. But that's not, yeah I don't know, that was easier for me. I just kind of, I knew I had to be a blank slate for that. Yeah, exactly. So in a way, because you grew up in that trauma, you came into it more open-minded. Like you're willing to learn because you don't want to do the same thing. Whereas friends of ours, like you were saying, the one friend you were talking to, he grew up and his parents were there and they were present and they're good grandparents. But maybe they did some things like the timeouts or spanking, that type of thing that he doesn't now feel like he wants to do. But it's harder to change that when you actually look back at your childhood and you're like, for the most part, it was pretty good. Yeah.
00:10:58
Speaker
And I think, too, for parents who were good overall, it's probably offensive for them often. They get offended by anything you do differently from them, which, again, that goes back to a conversation we had a few episodes back. I just find that mindset to be completely ridiculous because there's no way that anyone is going to do parenting perfectly. We're all human. Yeah. That's just the way it is. So to be offended by your kids doing things slightly differently than you. I don't know that just that kind of is mind boggling to me that that's how some grandparents are. Yeah. And I think specifically in this scenario, we're talking about a male partner. I feel like a lot of the men that I have worked with actually do have that fear of offending their parents or being like, well, if I don't spank my kids, you know, are they going to think that I think terribly of them because they spanked me? And I think then we can become even
00:11:48
Speaker
like really doesn't even have to be spanking is literally any difference in how you the expectation for kids maybe to sit at the dinner table for 45 minutes when they're four and that's just not really an expectation that is realistic for a four-year-old yeah I mean sure you can force them to sit there but is that actually helpful and anyway Right. And then let's say in that scenario, so you grew up and when you were a kid, you were forced to sit at the table for 45 minutes. That's a sign of respect to your family. You know that that doesn't work for your toddler, but now your parents are over for dinner and you want them to see that you're a successful parent, right? So now you put that pressure on your toddler to sit for the entire 45 minutes at the table.
00:12:26
Speaker
I feel like that's the type of thing that often happens. And then the other partner's trying to educate you and say, well, that's not realistic. yeah And you're thinking, well, but if I don't make them sit the whole time my parents are here, what are my parents going to think? Are they going to think I'm letting my kid be defiant or rude? And that's how I think we get into some of those battles and having a hard time moving forward or seeing something different.
00:12:46
Speaker
Right. So, I was thinking about Janelle's question and I was wondering from your perspective, as a dude, and and as someone with a lot of guy friends who have been in this situation, what do you think would be helpful if you are a female partner like me and you feel like you have to be constantly educating your husband or partner and like telling him. You know what? What do you think would be helpful?
00:13:12
Speaker
Truly, I think most of my buddies are highly involved dads. True. Like it's hard for me to think of any of them that aren't involved, super involved. Yeah. So i yeah I don't know that I can necessarily give that advice. Like I know the mindset of. Again, most of my buddies is that it's a value of theirs. And maybe that's just because that's who we surround ourselves with. I don't know. Yeah. But that is the value that they have, that they want to be with their children and spend as much time with them as they can and do things with them and have fun with them. And like as a family, so I don't know.
00:13:45
Speaker
You don't know if you've had, if you'd have advice for the mom who's like, yeah I feel like I just keep trying to educate him and it's feeling tiring. I mean, at a certain point, I think, I hope that what you have to say will click. Yeah. I know what worked for me is I would challenge you and you wouldn't get offended by it. You know how I like to consume information, which is like, I don't know, statistical data or,
00:14:10
Speaker
I try to live my life with logic and wisdom and so that's the way you tried to convey the information to me. It wasn't like you are offended and you're snapping back at me. It's more you were actively trying to explain the reasons why we need to deal with the tantrum in this way and we have to get on their level and we have to be there calm and whatever. All the things that you teach everyone, you explained it based on information that is backed up.
00:14:37
Speaker
So like a child develops in this specific way and it takes roughly this amount of time for their brain to develop these abilities and therefore what you're expecting our two-year-old to be able to just control is completely unrealistic. Yeah. And here are some other things you can do. So I think that's why it worked because you kind of know me and you know I'm very direct in my questioning. I'm not gonna like, I don't know, I don't beat around the bush with when it comes to these questions and you responded kind of in kind the way I prefer.
00:15:06
Speaker
and Yeah, I found that for me with you, when you were a little more skeptical, coming at you with research and very factual information, instead of leading with like all the tools that we now teach, I think sometimes for some partners feel a little bit woo woo possibly. Like if you just lead with that, if you lead with getting on their level and validate their emotions and get curious with them, all important things. But if that's what we're leading with, you could easily be like, well, that's like, no, I don't have time for that. I'm not going to do that.
00:15:36
Speaker
So for me, it was really helpful to lead with, here's what the research says. We both agree we want to use a style of parenting that's backed by research and is going to be effective for our kids. It has been proven to work over the history of humankind. Right. So I had your buy-in by just doing that and you're like, show me the articles. I'm like, yeah, no problem.
00:15:54
Speaker
And then I would. Right. And so I know that when we even started our mama village, like everything I did basically i had like APA citations before that. It was probably just a great blog already. Yeah. Before we think before, so we had nurtured first our mama village and before our mama village for the OGs, Jessica Grace blog. That's how I started. And I would just write blogs that were filled with research, like APA citations on why the style of parenting is effective. Yeah. And how to actually do it. And. and how to do it. When I started doing that, I'm sure there's still some there's still a bunch i' still up. You can find them on our blog, which is incredible. By the way, plug for the blog. When I was writing those initial articles, I was thinking about the parent like you who needed to know that it's not just some fluffy new age parenting style as backed by research. But then the other thing that I found really helpful when I was kind of coaching you and even in the clients, like this situation with Janelle is a common thing that we see in our practice too, where one parent is taking the reins, is giving some specific readings or things that the partner can do. Whether it's as simple as sending them a podcast episode, that's part of the reason why we wanted Scott on this podcast is so that parents could hear from a different perspective and and get Scott's skeptical questions that you've all come to, I think, like.
00:17:11
Speaker
I feel like I'm not that skeptical. No, you're pretty good. I'm kind of on board now. You're on board. For the most part. But you will, you will still question me or push back. And I think people really appreciate that. But that's like a simple way to get them to start to feel invested themselves. And I think the best thing that you can do is if you feel like you're constantly trying to teach your partner through modeling, right? I think we had the episode on with Josh, our friend.
Modeling Behavior and Communication
00:17:34
Speaker
That would be a great episode to listen to. He was a skeptical dad and was unsure about the style of parenting, but the more he watched his wife, Shannon, do this style of parenting in an effective way that was actually changing the behavior of their son, he realized that her method was way more effective than his. And I think a lot of the time we focus so much on teaching, but the best way we can teach is just through doing it ourselves. And it's actually okay if your partner's not 100% doing the same thing as you. It's not your job to change his or her behavior.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah. I think Josh and Shannon though, that's a little bit unfair because he is also like, he will spend a lot of time thinking through the way he's done things. And that's the type of person he is. Yeah. He's constantly analyzing what he's done and the kids and like, that's just his style. So I don't think every parent is going to be like that either. So modeling. Wow. Yes. I think in some situations that will help. I don't know that that's always going to help either.
00:18:32
Speaker
Yeah, it might not always happen. Right, because I could foresee someone who, let's say, doesn't agree, so now it wants to do things in a totally different style, sees you being so gentle and thinking they will think you're being too gentle on them. It's not going to work. You just need to do whatever. Give them a consequence right then and there and that will help.
00:18:54
Speaker
Yeah. That will stop it from happening. So I don't necessarily think that that's always going to be that effective. The modeling. Yeah. Yeah. In some situations it will. But again, in others, that's not going to be like a catch all. It's not always going to work. Yeah. And not any one thing is going to change the mind of your partner if they're unsure or teach them everything that they need to know.
00:19:13
Speaker
So I think if we think about this situation in the partner's perspective, I was going to talk to you about a time I kind of felt like her above and beyond the toddler years. I would say it made sense that I was in that position, but when our babies would struggle with sleep, I would often feel like that was on me to do the educating and to do the reading of the sleep blogs and figuring out what we're doing in the night because A, a lot of the time you were working or you weren't around,
00:19:40
Speaker
So I was doing the night wakings or I was just doing the night wakings because that's what we had agreed upon and I was fine with being the one doing the night wakings. yep But I would often be the one doing the research on, okay, it's a sleep progression or okay, we need to try.
00:19:55
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I would say that I sort of just defaulted to you on all of that. Yeah. So I would say I can relate to her mostly in terms of the sleep. And maybe that's because we both didn't feel as confident in the baby sleep era of our lives. I know that was probably the hardest. It's different than discipline, but it's the same kind of thing where I was the one doing the research. I was the one educating you.
00:20:16
Speaker
And I would say that there was times when I felt quite exhausted by having to do all of that. So I can definitely relate to that feeling of feeling like you're the one who has to do all that work. But what I will say is I do remember one time we had an argument about this because I was reading all these blogs about sleep and telling you everything that I was reading. and And I was kind of mad at you, I think, for something. I mean, I was also very sleep deprived, so I was mad at you, I think, about something related to sleep. and What else is new? Yeah, I mean, fair. And I think we came to this part of our discussion where it was like, okay, but you're also not letting me help you.
00:20:57
Speaker
you're not loosening the reins. Like you are doing everything, all the reading, all the stuff, all things related to sleep. But I wasn't, I was never giving you an opportunity to actually try and helplessly or try to learn on your own because I had taken it all on myself.
00:21:12
Speaker
And that's not for me to blame myself or for me to resent you. But sometimes I think in relationship we can get into these roles where we think we have to do it all ourselves and we never pull back the reins enough or even ask our partner and say, Hey, look, I need you to research a four month sleep regression and figure out what the heck we're supposed to do because I'm so tired. yeah I can't figure it out. I never.
00:21:36
Speaker
gave you the opportunity to do that, but then I also was angry at you at the same time. And I remember you saying to me, Jess, like I would actually help you. I would do the research for you, but if you're going to do it all and then be mad at me, then I can't. So I don't, there's, I think there's a piece there too, where maybe sometimes it is that conversation of like maybe one parent needs to pull back and allow the other parent space to do some other research and stuff. I don't know.
00:22:01
Speaker
So I mean, yes, but based on Janelle's question, she's saying she's the one that knows more things like you and just kind of feels exhausted by the fact that she's constantly having to teach. yeah So yeah, I mean, and maybe in the infant sleep time, like age of our girls, maybe that was sometimes the issue.
00:22:24
Speaker
I don't know. I guess that's the one thing that like infant sleep is not something that you were trained heavily in. So then it's maybe your expectation was more on me to help with that.
00:22:35
Speaker
Yeah, but ah I never communicated that expectation. And I guess yeah my default again was with anything related to the kids. You kind of know. Yeah, exactly. So I'll i'll follow your lead. And I mean, interacting with the girls in basically all of their aspects. I don't really need your input at all at this point. Like we talk about it constantly between the two of us and we're, we're trying to analyze the way either one of us has done things. But yeah, maybe it was just the, I don't know, maybe it was just the default.
00:23:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I think. I think it was the default thing of like, well, Jess, Jess is the one that knows this stuff. So I'll let her do the research and then she can tell me. And I think that's fine if I agree with that, right? So I think it does come down to a communication thing. And for us in that scenario with baby sleep, I wasn't communicating my feeling to you of being overwhelmed and exhausted by doing all the research.
00:23:23
Speaker
We'll say with each of the girls too, the first six months at least, I wasn't like, it's not as though I felt like I could help really. Right. I remember with our first, I was thinking we have a five month old and like, if I'm left alone with her, what am I supposed to do? I have no idea.
00:23:37
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. And again, I think if I look in hindsight at some of our friends who have recently had babies and are like really sharing the load, like they've equipped their partners to be like, make sure that the babies take a bottle early on and make sure that their partners are used to putting the babies to bed. I didn't have that chance because you were traveling. Yeah, I was traveling. We also were completely flooded out of our house. We didn't have a house or anywhere to stay permanently for like three months.
00:24:02
Speaker
So in those early days for us, and I think this is the case for a lot of parents, it was all on me because you you weren't there. Not that you didn't want to be there, but you were gone, right? So then we got in that pattern of, well, Jess just is the one to do this research because she's the one home. I think in terms of Janelle's situation and and so many other parents, I wonder from my therapist lens about how that can be communicated to a partner. Because yes, Janelle's an expert, I'm an expert, but it doesn't mean that there's not other places that you can learn from as well, right? And so just because you have access to an expert in your home doesn't mean that they always want to be in that position of educating, right? And so I think even for you, something like I already mentioned that I love about you is that you'll just learn things on your own.
00:24:47
Speaker
So yes, you'll ask me questions and I'm willing to answer them because I know you also do your own research on things. Like you read books on parenting, you know, you got to know other information that was out there and you became deeply invested in wanting to be a good parent outside of just the interactions that you had with me.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, to be truthful, I probably did some of it in an effort to try and discredit some of the things you were telling me. I was wondering if this is where this is going to go. Right? But I was unsuccessful in that. You're like, okay, well Jess is saying this and she's saying this all back by research. So let me go out and read my own stuff and my own research. But what about this? And then you'd have a reason for it. Oh. Okay. yeah What about this? And then you have another reason for it. yeah Again, it was all logical. It's just, you don't know what you don't know. That's, I feel like a big part of parenting. And when and that's even a part of what you're talking about, the communication between us too. yeah I think we're just, we communicate with each other quite well. Yeah. And so I think if I was ever at this point in my life to feel overwhelmed by the questions that you were asking me, like let's say something you don't know about. We've talked about this a lot and we will eventually teach Scott, but you don't know that much about puberty and girls, right? That's a topic that you've been very honest that you don't even know that much about boys. I went through it. Yeah. Does that mean I understand? No, you probably don't. that much I don't know that I really learned that much about it.
00:26:08
Speaker
So that'll be something else that eventually I'm telling Scott, but we're going to do it on air. Yeah, we're going to do it on air. But let's say I don't lucky everyone have the capacity to teach that to you, right? To teach you about puberty and periods and everything like that. That's on me to communicate with you. Hey, Scott, you know what? We've got a lot going on right now. It's a lot of work for me to have to have my therapist brain on to teach you about periods and puberty.
00:26:34
Speaker
I would love for you to learn about it and why don't you read a book on it or you know listen to a podcast episode on it. To be honest, even if you teach me, I'll probably read books on it anyway. But again, that's on me to communicate that to you so that I don't build up frustration towards you about it.
00:26:51
Speaker
Right? I think a lot of the time as whatever the default parent, we just feel like, okay, well, they're asking us questions, so I should turn that part of my brain on and I should educate them. And it's okay for you to set boundaries around that too. Or like, hey, you know what, Scott? Let's say we didn't have a podcast together and you're like, Jess, I really want to teach the kids about puberty. It's coming up. I need to learn. Like, yep, on this night, that's when I'll feel like we can have that discussion.
00:27:17
Speaker
So you can also set boundaries around when you're having those discussions. You can set boundaries on like how much you feel like having your expert brain on and how much you want to, you know, tell your partner, Hey, you can spend that same amount of time listening to this podcast. That's what I listened to. And then let's discuss the podcast episode together.
00:27:33
Speaker
So it's okay even in relationship to communicate what your boundaries are and vice versa. Like maybe you are getting annoyed because you don't want to hear me talking about validation and toddler tantrums all the time either. And you don't want me to constantly be educating you. And I'm not saying this specifically about you, but I know some partners who are the ones who do all the reading, there can come a time when you're constantly just critiquing your partner, right? Like, no, I wouldn't have responded that way. Or you you can't yell so much or you can't do this or you can't do that. And when we're constantly critiquing, you're also maybe not creating the most positive relationship with the style of parenting for your partner either, because they just feel like they' they're never going to get it right. and You're always going to have something negative to say about about me type thing. You're always messing it up. So I would also encourage the partner who has more information, you know, sometimes we need to step back, let them make a mistake in the way that they respond. And then when there is a time and place when everyone's calm, maybe you can talk about it then.
00:28:30
Speaker
What?
00:28:33
Speaker
I can already teach when teachable. Am I right? It's all the same principles that we have with our kids, right? When are we going to have a conversation with our kids about hard things? Are you always using that with me? Yes, of course. And I want to talk about this because I actually was thinking about this last night has to do with this conversation and the critiquing. Sometimes we, as the people who have, let's say more of the information, I would say that right now we're pretty equal, but we need to know when to just allow our partners to
00:29:05
Speaker
take the lead without us overstepping, right? So for example last night I was heading to the hospital with our toddler who had the sore arm and I knew you were home with our preschooler who was the one that hurt her by accident and our preschooler was very very sad about the fact that she accidentally hurt her sister.
00:29:24
Speaker
And my gut instinct was to call you and tell you how to respond to her and tell you, make sure you're nice. Make sure you validate her feelings. You make sure you check in with her. And I actually had to catch myself and say, Jess, Scott's fully capable of handling this situation. Even if you wouldn't handle it in the exact words that you would use with her, he's capable of handling this. And I had to release control a little bit and not coach you through. And I think I did pretty well. And you did good, but honestly, I had you, like I had your number up and I was about to call you and micromanage you. And I was like, you know what? That's not what he needs right now. He needs an opportunity to handle this without me micromanaging him. And I know that that comes with the trust and the fact that you are on board, but also if I always micromanaged you just because I have a very specific way, 100% I'd be so annoyed. You'd be so annoyed. So I think that there is a piece from the partners on my end of like, okay, it might not be exactly the words I'd say, but if I know his tone and his posture is gonna be what I want. Can I tell you what I did? Yeah, let's hear it. Because I don't even know if I did. I actually don't know. He didn't tell me. I can't remember how it started, but I ended up just grabbing her head and putting my forehead against hers. That's cute. I know. That's adorable. It is very cute and adorable. And I said, I know you didn't mean to hurt your sister.
00:30:46
Speaker
It's okay. Mom and dad aren't mad at you. We love you. And I hope you know that we know you're not trying to hurt her on purpose. Yeah. And I just kind of repeated a few of those things a few times and then finally she just gave me a big hug. And I know she just needed to internalize it a little bit, but that's, that's what I did.
00:31:03
Speaker
That's beautiful. Did I do okay? See, that's exactly what I would have told you to do. Yeah. See, I'm more capable than you even imagine. Yeah. Jessica. And I know in, in our situation, it is because you've put in the work to learn, right? Right. I'm just thinking a lot about the parent who has a partner who's just not super committed to learning and growing. And I know that. Well, I'm just kind of allowing, like, let's say in our situation, I might just allow you to do everything. Yeah. And in that situation, the person who's in my role is going to feel super frustrated and overwhelmed at some point because it is hard to be the only one doing that. So I know a common situation that I have heard and I'm sure in the community that we have here and that's can be common. There's a stay at home mom and then the dad is going out to work, working long hours or whatever, making the money for the family. And then the expectation,
00:31:57
Speaker
however old-fashioned this is and in my opinion ridiculous. Their expectation is you as the stay-at-home mom are the one that's required to parent the kids. I'm the one that's required to go out and make money for the family and care for the family in that way.
00:32:14
Speaker
yep So how would you deal with that kind of situation? Because I think that's maybe not the most common, but that is a relatively common way of parenting. So there's one whose default is to be with the kids and there's the other that's the default to go out and make money for the family, pay for things. Right. And I feel like, I mean, I personally have such a struggle with that too. Cause it, it almost implies that the person who's home, the time that they spend at home with the kids isn't like worth anything.
Balancing Work and Parenting
00:32:40
Speaker
Right. So what would you say to those parents then? And how could you get the one that's exhausted the help from the other parent? Yeah. I have to think about how I would respond to that. If I was talking to both of them, I think I would probably say something along the lines of like,
00:32:56
Speaker
Yeah, when you're at work, she's at home doing the work at home and she's taking care of the discipline. She's taking care of the children. You're both doing your roles. But when you come home, then the shift of both of you being on and both of you being parents together, that's when that shift starts. So if you want to see it as shifts, that's when that shift starts. And now you're both on and you're both parenting together and you're both splitting your parental duties.
00:33:20
Speaker
And the the problem with saying that is I know a lot of people would be like, yeah, but I just worked all day. I just, she's been home, you know, with the kids. I'm tired. Yeah. And so that's really hard to know how to respond to because also the person who's at home all day with the kids also has been on all day and also probably is tired and also probably has had a draining day, even if it means that they were doing groceries and stuff like that. Like I, that's where I was trying to go with like, that's still work. You're still on.
00:33:49
Speaker
For sure, I don't disagree with that. I'm just saying, I don't know that that would convince. That alone wouldn't convince someone. A parent who's not as involved to become more involved. Yeah. So what is, I guess, what is the most important, i' what I'm trying to get out of you is like, how can you convince the parent that maybe is not learning how to be, I don't know.
00:34:09
Speaker
how to attach, create a secure attachment, or how to discipline in a way that's effective. How can you convince that parent who's not even bothering to learn any of those things to start learning those things and like help them understand the importance of doing so?
00:34:22
Speaker
I feel like that's such a big, probably the most common question I get on Nurtured First, like how do I convince my husband? And I think we can't ever convince someone to do something, right? Like that's the the hard part either is I can't give you like a quick script or plan to convince someone because convincing someone to read and to take time to learn parenting techniques.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's also convincing them that that should be a priority and that should be important and helping them develop that bond with the kids. like it It's deeper than just that, you know what I mean?
00:34:56
Speaker
Right. Well, I think so. What I'm trying to get out of you basically is for a parent like that, I feel like what they are hoping for their kids often is to be successful later in life. So why is learning how to be an involved parent an important aspect of helping create that quote unquote success later in life?
00:35:18
Speaker
Because I think there is evidence, strong evidence to suggest that being an involved parent leads to greater success in many things later in life, and not like monetarily, but relationship wise, which I mean, that ends up translating if that's what you care about, your kids are more likely to be better off because you were involved as a parent.
Aligning Parenting Goals
00:35:40
Speaker
They have better outcomes when it comes to relationships and mental health outcomes and grades. And all these things are benefited by being an involved parent and learning how to create that secure attachment, whether you use that term or not, I think is kind of beside the point, but secure attachment and discipline and all that.
00:36:01
Speaker
It leads me to think of a question I used to ask parents if they're in my counseling office. It's like, what can we agree on in terms of our goals of parenting? Yeah, I think that's a great place to start. Yeah, that's a great place to start because most often you and your partner might agree on some major goals, right? Like we want our kid to grow up and be able to hold down a job. Okay, we both agree on that. Great.
00:36:24
Speaker
We want our kids to grow up and have a healthy relationship. Okay, we both agree on that. So sometimes it's starting with your partner on what do you both agree on? What is similar in terms of your goals, right? And then we can backtrack from there. So yeah, if we both agree, we want our kids to have healthy relationships, be able to hold down a job, be mentally well. I feel like most of us would agree on those things. Okay, well then here's the style of discipline that research has shown is the most effective in helping those outcomes happen.
00:36:53
Speaker
And I need your involvement in this yeah to make that happen. Yeah. And I need us to be a team. I need your involvement in this in order to make that happen. So if those are your goals and those are my goals, here's a way that we can reach those goals. Right. And so it's maybe having a meeting like that. That would be the first conversation I'd have with like parents in therapy. I feel like we should almost end the this episode on if that's the one thing that you can do with a partner who is not as involved and you feel like you are the default parent in most situations and you have the knowledge and you're trying to guide them constantly, maybe start by having that conversation, that conversation with them. whats yeah What are our goals for our kids, our family?
00:37:35
Speaker
And then after that, I feel like that's just going to spur on conversations. I like that. And then what I would even suggest to clients in my practice about the goals is then maybe and make a couple of practical things that you can do. It doesn't have to be crazy, you know, to help meet those goals and then have check-ins with your partner. Maybe once a month you put it on your calendar. Hey, we're going to meet on first Monday night of every month. We're going to have coffee and just talk about how things are going in our house.
00:38:02
Speaker
and how our family goals are going, right? And your goals might look different depending on your values. And maybe that's just one way you can start to have that buy-in and just have that intentional time together. I think that is good. Honestly, even probably for us. You get so busy with work and extracurriculars and moving or whatever, different life circumstances that you sometimes don't specifically, often I think you don't specifically spend time talking about How are we meeting our family goals? yeah And what are they? Maybe they change over time. And then the parents like Janelle or like myself, maybe then you know you have that opportunity for talking, for teaching, for whatever that is, but it doesn't feel like it has to be all the time. all right And that can help release some of that weight and that pressure too, which might feel good.
00:38:54
Speaker
And over time, the hope would be if you have, are having those family meetings, you are intentionally talking about it when you're calm and you're ready to talk about it. Maybe you do start to see more buy-in because now you're having that time and maybe you want to come to the family meeting and say, Hey, I watched this podcast this week and Scott said this and I disagree with him. Let's talk about why. And I think that could be a really beautiful way to start those discussions.
00:39:21
Speaker
Perfect. I think we should end there. Yeah. I think that's a good place to end. Thank you for sending in your question. We love your questions. If you have any more, please send us an email anytime. Scott and I love to read them. And again, thank you so much for being here. We always love talking to you. See ya.
00:39:40
Speaker
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We are glad that you are here. If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review. Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all. A five star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.