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The #1 Reason Kids (And Adults) Cling, Whine and Act Out
13.8k Plays3 months ago
In this important episode, Jess and Scott dive deep into the root cause of challenging behaviours in both children and adults: separation. Jess explains how our core need for closeness drives many of our reactions, from clingy children to angry adults.
Jess shares some eye-opening insights on:
- Why behaviours like clinging, whining, and crying happen
- Why kids are so angry all the time
- Why common parenting strategies make behaviour worse
- How separation emotions manifest as frantic pursuit, anger, and eventually apathy
- Why "attention-seeking" behaviours are actually attempts to reconnect
- The importance of allowing children (and ourselves) to feel sadness and shed tears
- Real-life examples of helping children through separation struggles
Listeners will gain a new perspective on behaviours they may have labelled as "defiance" or "acting out" and learn practical strategies for rebuilding closeness and connection.
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Transcript
Deja Vu and Dreams: Predicting Conversations
00:00:00
Speaker
was it topic What was our topic of discussion today? I just had the biggest deja vu. I'm not even kidding. Like you've lived this before? I've lived this before. No, I swear to you that like two years ago, and this happens to me more often. Two years ago, I swear, I had a dream that we were recording a podcast together talking about separation and we were sitting like this talking about separation and now it's happening.
00:00:25
Speaker
It's a glitch in the matrix. Yeah, it is. I'm, I'm not kidding. This has happened to me multiple times where I've had dreams about something. And then all of a sudden, like one time I had a dream and then we were like walking through this place. And then years later we, you and I were walking at Disneyland together and it was the place that I dreamed about like years prior. Anyway, like on our honeymoon. Yeah. I don't know if you ever told me that. I remember we were walking through Cars Land and I was thinking to myself, like,
00:00:51
Speaker
I have dreamt this exact location, and it was weird. So this is like almost 11 years later to the day, and now you're just finally telling me that you've been dreamt about? I don't know why I never told you. I think about this like once a week, how I dreamt that, and then we walked through it and I was like... You think about going
Introduction and Theme of Separation
00:01:07
Speaker
to Disneyland once a week? No, like once a week I think about how weird it was when we walked through Disneyland, the Cars Land, and in my head I was like, I've dreamt this exact thing, like doing this exact thing with Scott. I think about that like probably a week. And how is it that you've never told me this?
00:01:21
Speaker
I don't know. I thought I had. Who are you? I'm a dreamer. Honestly, it's kind of weird. But anyway, okay I dreamt this conversation. What is the point of this podcast today? Today I wanted to talk about one of my favorite topics of all time. Do you know what that is? Separation. Yeah. I want to talk about separation today.
00:01:47
Speaker
Welcome to Robot Unicorn. We are so glad that you are here. As always, let's start the show with a question from Scott.
00:02:00
Speaker
Jess, I've noticed that our children, yeah especially the two youngest, have been very clingy to you lately. Yeah. And whiny. Yeah. And there's been a few extra tantrums lately. A few. And you said that there is one major contributing factor to this. Yeah. So what is that? Why is that happening? Especially right now, why is that happening so much? Like it should be kind of have, we've been on vacation, we're having fun as a family. We're doing stuff outside. We're not cooped up in the house because it's snowing or anything in cold. We're actually outside doing stuff. So why are they so whiny and clingy? What's the reason for it? Well, I want to talk about two things actually, because I think when we're talking about why are our kids right now so whiny and clingy right now in the general context of things, it's two weeks before school starts. It's the end of the summer. So I just feel like that needs to be noted. And we've been really out of routine lately.
00:02:53
Speaker
AKA there's been no routine. We were just on vacation. There was no nap schedule. Bedtime was late. So I do feel like I have to say that first, right? Like the kids have been tired. They've been out of routine. There's been a lot of big changes in their life. So that's definitely impacting these clingy, whiny emotions a lot. But I think if we talk about whining, clinging and challenging behavior as a whole, there's a deeper reason than just being tired and overwhelmed. Of course there is.
00:03:22
Speaker
Of course there is. Why
Emotional Impact of Separation on Children and Adults
00:03:23
Speaker
wouldn't there be? Yeah. And I actually told Scott I want to talk about this specific topic because it's been really on my mind lately because I think that this specific reason that we're going to get into today is the reason why adults struggle with their behavior and the reason why children struggle with their behavior. What do you mean by that? How do adults struggle with their behavior? Like what's an example of that? Let's say an example of that is you are in an argument with your partner and you are worried that they don't love you anymore or that they're mad at you or that there's some sort of rupture in your relationship and you're wondering why your first instinct is to like be super nice to them, right? Like to go above and beyond yourself. Like a lot of people will do this, right? Send them flowers. like do all of these things to pursue your partner, even if just like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like I need some space. I just need some time to think about this. That would be one of the things that I'm talking about, how this comes out in adult behavior. Or you have a friendship and you're struggling with your friendship and you're doing everything that you can to keep that friend close, even though maybe that friend has hurt you a lot. That's the kind of behavior I'm talking about that we see in adults. Yeah, okay, I can see that. Being a boss, same thing, right? Like that's a similar idea.
00:04:35
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. So the issue that I want to talk about today in depth that we haven't talked about that much is separation. And when we say the word separation, like we're really thinking about, okay, well, I'm just not with the person, right? Like, Oh, I have separation from my friend. Yeah. My friend lives here and I live here. We have separation. But what I'm talking about is more of the emotional separation from someone.
00:05:00
Speaker
And so when we talk about separation being the root cause of so many behavioral struggles in adults and in children, we need to look at why that is, right? And why it is, is our core need as a human being on this earth is to feel some sort of closeness and togetherness with those that we love. So a child, their core need, their number one need that they have is to feel dependent and close to their parent. So our child, let's talk about whining.
00:05:30
Speaker
It's her core need to feel close to me. Now, if something comes up that makes her feel not close to me, this is where separation comes in, right? So there's so many things that can make a child feel this separation. And my mentor colleague, Dr. Deborah McNamara and Gordon Neufeld,
00:05:49
Speaker
They talk about it as separation emotions, like these emotions that come with separation come up, right? So there's a lot of reasons why this could happen for a kid. So for example, for us, we have a four year old going to junior kindergarten for the first time in two weeks. She knows that this big change is coming and that's going to lead to separation from mom and dad. and I can see in her clinging, crying, wanting to be close to me, that those separation emotions are completely taking over her brain right now. She wants to stay close to me. And so the behavior that we see is clinging, whining, crying, doing everything to keep me close, even though it kind of pushes me away more because the behavior is frustrating. But right now, she is in the first stage of the separation emotions, which is like this relentless pursuit of the person who you feel separate to.
00:06:37
Speaker
school is a reason that might happen, but we also might see that in kids who just had a new baby come into the family and all of a sudden they don't feel that same closeness with their parents that they did. Like we've had that with the girls and we've had new babies in the family and their separation emotions, which are telling them, I'm not close with mom and dad, like I need to stay close with them. They start taking over and they become frantic to keep you close. And you see it in hitting, climbing, whining. You're trying to get that attention through. Maybe not the best way, but still getting them attention. They're trying to get attention. They're trying to gain connection. And I think a lot of times these behaviors that are frantic ways to keep you close are just labeled as they're just attention seeking and just ignore it. Ignore it and it will stop.
00:07:24
Speaker
But what doesn't stop is the child's need for closeness. What might stop is the frantic behaviors. And so the frantic behaviors are actually a good sign. They're a sign that their child's still trying to keep you close.
Dealing with Children's Separation Emotions
00:07:36
Speaker
Once that stops, then we sometimes move to anger. So sorry, you're saying that's a good sign. So is' it it's a bad sign if they just don't care at all?
00:07:45
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. I would rather see a child care and be frantic and trying to keep their parent close. Yup. Even though it makes us frustrated as parents and we can talk about how to deal with that frustration than a child who doesn't care at all. Like a child that is so shut down. Like that's kind of the- They're just apathetic towards the- They're completely apathetic. And that's kind of the final stage of the separation of emotions, right? So the separation of emotions, it starts with this frantic energy, right? I got to keep you close no matter what.
00:08:14
Speaker
And that looks like the crying, the whining, even like the hitting of the baby. Like, I know if I hit my baby sister, then my mom's going to give me attention because she's going to be disciplining me, right? After that, it turns into like a frustration or aggression. So in our practice, we'll get a lot of kids come in that are quote unquote angry. But when we unpack that anger, often underneath all of this anger is just this core need for closeness with their parent that they're not getting.
00:08:40
Speaker
And so maybe they tried these frantic behaviors to get close, but it wasn't working. They're being shut down. Now it's turning into anger. It's turning into idol. So it would be, that would be the next stage of it. Is that the, okay. So like if you can nip it in the bud, then you could potentially forego the next stages. Yeah. Okay. I'm just trying to understand, like be able to comprehend how, how this works works or if it's, they have to go through all these stages too. No, it's not always linear either, right? But these are the ways that separation struggles present themselves. So sometimes we have a child who is presenting themselves as angry. We see it all the time in kids. They come in, the parent's like, they're still angry all the time.
00:09:20
Speaker
It's like, okay, so let's talk about it. How are you disciplining them? What's happening? Right? Well, I send them to their room to deal with it. You know, they can't treat their sister that way. I send them to their room. They have to sit alone in timeout and think about what they've done. But what does sitting in a room alone with all these emotions signal to the child, right? More separation.
00:09:40
Speaker
I'm alone. I'm alone with my feelings. Someone's not here helping me with them. So a lot of the times the strategies that we are using to help a child who is completely overcome with separation struggles is to separate them from us even more. Like that's the strategy. And then we wonder why kids are more angry, more aggressive, or eventually shut down and are not close with the parent at all and don't feel comfortable talking to them.
00:10:07
Speaker
because we're using strategies that are rooted in separation in order to fix the separation struggles. Right? It's the same for like sleep training a toddler. ah You have a toddler who just wants to feel close with their caregiver.
00:10:22
Speaker
And they come out of bed looking for you, right? These are all separation emotions taking over. They lay in their bed and they're like, what the heck? I'm supposed to lay here for 10 to 12 hours by myself. You know, they're not thinking that exact thing, but they're thinking that's the feeling in there. That's the feeling their nervous system.
00:10:38
Speaker
I'm alone. I'm alone. Wait, I need to be close to someone. i I don't know how to make sense of the world by myself. So they come out of bed looking for you and then we bring them back to the bed and we close the door and some sleep trainers will tell you, just lock it, lock it. Let them cry on the other side. They'll eventually lock the door. Yeah. This is common advice that is still being given right now. And it's very, very upsetting. It goes against child development. Mm-hmm.
00:11:02
Speaker
and like or hold the door shut let them cry on the other side eventually they'll learn that you're not coming back in. Well what are we doing again? We're treating a separation struggle with a solution that's rooted in more separation. So what are we doing to kids? We're teaching them you are alone with your emotions and I cannot help you with closeness. And so what happens then is we have a generation of kids that are being trained this way that learn that they can't rely on their caregiver to help them cope with these feelings. They don't have that feeling of closeness and they have to turn down those instincts inside of themselves to preserve themselves from being hurt by their parent over and over. And so we see kids that are angry, they have attention issues, they're struggling at school, but when we get to the root of it, what's there? Do you know what I'm going to say? you tell me Sadness.
00:11:52
Speaker
I did not have that in my mind. We have kids who are being labeled as angry kids who are sad and who are seeking closeness, but they seek closeness through ways that push us away. And that's why I want to talk about separation today because I think We aren't seeing that. We're missing that. And I see it all the time in my therapy practice. It's like they're angry and the teachers are like, well, how can we discipline them? Let's keep them in at recess. Let's tell their parents. And then they get picked up early from school. And the first thing the parent does, like, how could you do that? No TV time for a week. Go to your room as soon as you get home. That we're dealing with these kids anger and aggression by more and more separation, which is just only leading to more challenging behavior.
00:12:35
Speaker
And the answer is so clear. They need to get back into right close relationship with their caregiver. And I think where we maybe could have started is we did talk about this, but the child's number one need is closeness with their caregiver. This is because when they're close with the caregiver, that's how they make sense of the world, right? Like a toddler does not know how to make sense of the world. Look at our toddler. She's just like,
00:12:59
Speaker
Oh, a light. Okay, cool. Let's go look at it. Oh, yeah. Right. Like, let's wander
Children's Challenging Behaviors as a Call for Reconnection
00:13:04
Speaker
over here and look at this. We look at our four-year-old. You know, she's trying to make sense of the world, but she doesn't understand most things, right? She needs us.
00:13:14
Speaker
like So I'm just thinking about what she did last night at dinner. Standing up on her chair and then all of a sudden like almost basically like, what was that, proselytizing or like preaching at us basically. And it was all a bunch of gibberish and moving her hands up and down. We had to copy her but she's just making the connection that if she does that and has a big smirk on her face then we'll all probably just copy what she does and she has a lot of power in that situation. Yeah, exactly.
00:13:42
Speaker
And they act like they want to be in control. They act like they want to be the leader. They will say things that pain you, like, I hate you, mommy, or I don't want you, or leave me alone. But at the root of all of this, and what Dr. Gordon Neufeld would describe this is like their alarm systems going off, right? So instead of letting you hurt me, I'm just going to be really defensive. I'm going to say, I hate you. I'm going to say, I don't like you. I'm going to push you away. I'm going to hit the baby. I'm going to,
00:14:10
Speaker
do all of these things so that I can't feel the pain of not being close with you. okay right And so we see this, especially as kids get older, they have their defenses up and they push and push and push you away. And my challenge to parents would be when your child is pushing you away, it's when they need you most.
00:14:30
Speaker
And our job as their parent or their caregiver is to see how we can soften those defenses and come back into a close relationship with them. So those instincts within yourself as their caregiver, like I know I had this this weekend when they were like clinging and crying. I'm like, holy crap. Like I need everyone off me. I literally said that, right? I need everyone off me. I need a break and that's valid. That's valid feeling.
00:14:57
Speaker
But I know that even though my instinct is to like push them away because I'm getting very frustrated by this behavior, these kids need me to be close with them. They need those moments of connection. And if they don't get that, like I'm at a very critical stage with them right now. If they don't get these moments of connection, we're going to start leading into aggression. We're going to start leading to anger.
00:15:18
Speaker
We're going to lead to more of this alarm system going off. And eventually if I never get to that point of closest with them, we're going to get to the point of
Separation Emotions in Adult Relationships
00:15:27
Speaker
apathy. It's like fine. Won't ask for you anymore then. Yeah. And we don't want to get there with our kids. Does that make sense? I feel like I'm rambling as always, but I mean, I think it does. And I've been thinking about this so much because I think it's true even in our adult relationships.
00:15:43
Speaker
even in our relationships that might be broken or hurt with our own parents or our own friends or our spouses. When we feel a close attachment with someone, whether that's a friend, a parent or spouse, we'll have these same reactions when separation happens. Yeah. I mean, you had that recently and a relationship that you thought was real seemed to be ah not so real anymore. And that I saw you doing that same thing.
00:16:09
Speaker
I had these same things happen to me. I had the first was like this pursuit of like, no, I need to pursue. I need to stay in this close relationship and then it's. Do everything you can to fix it. I have to do everything I can to fix this. When really what was happening at the root of all of my separation emotions that were going on was a sadness, was a loss of togetherness, was a loss of closeness.
00:16:33
Speaker
And I think even as adults, if we can start to see that in our own patterns, a lot of people will have this, especially in like romantic relationships. I used to have this with you, where as soon as you'd be grumpy with me or mad at me, I would like start cracking jokes. I would start doing all these things that you like, trying to break the tension and like try to pursue you to make you happy with me when really maybe you needed some space and we were actually okay in in our relationship. But the separation of emotions would take over because underneath what was all happening, which is like me trying to make you happy and all of this stuff, was this like deep fear of being alone, yeah right? And not being in right relationship with you. And I see this happen with people with their parents all the time too, right? Like they are now grown and their parents don't agree with something that they're doing and their parents tell them.
00:17:25
Speaker
And then they're still afraid as adults because we always crave relationship with our parents. They're still afraid of losing that relationship with their parents. So they'll abandon themselves and what they truly believe and feel to make things right with that parent. And they'll relentlessly pursue that parent. And then if the parent's not reciprocating that, it turns into anger. It turns into aggression, like frustration. Oh, I hate my parent. They're the worst.
00:17:53
Speaker
But underneath all of that is again the sadness and this longing to be close. And sometimes the answer will not be as an adult being close with that parent, right? I know you had that with one of your parents. We went through the same stages, I think. We went through the stage of like, let's make this work. Let's do it what we can to make this work with this parent because we want a relationship with this person and We went through the stages of anger and upset and all of that. But I think the only way that you really healed with the relationship with your parent was when you became sad. Yeah, I think that's true. And I think it's sometimes sadness is the answer to separation struggles. And like it wasn't until you were able to actually. oh I probably never knew that it was.
00:18:42
Speaker
sadness yeah You know, I presented as anger for a really long time. It wasn't so something happened that you were able to see, oh, I'm just sad. I'm grieving a loss. And that happened to me as well when I lost a close friendship, right? It's like all of these feelings are happening and it's anger and it's this pursue and it's all of these things. But underneath all of that was just a sadness and a loss.
00:19:06
Speaker
and Sometimes, as parents or as adults, when we have this happen, we need to get to the point where we can cry. And we need to get to the point where we can release our tears, and then we can move forward with our lives. so Just like children. Just like children. We are, we are. That's what I was going to say. That's what you were going to say, right? Yeah, it was what I was going to say. Just like our kids. So, sometimes with our children, and they have this this separation of motion, this energy,
00:19:36
Speaker
we can help them with it, right? When it's to be close with us, we can help them with it. We can help them release tears. So for example, you have a new baby and your child is acting out, clinging, crying, whining, hitting the baby. What you're going to do is you're going to see how you can find what we call tiny moments.
00:19:55
Speaker
Like those tiny moments with your child and try and build closeness back in so that they know you're still caring for them. It's things like, Hey, I know it's really tough right now and I'm really missing hanging out with you. Like what can we do together? And it's also allowing them to feel their tears about it.
00:20:13
Speaker
you're not going to fix it all. But when we can get to the root of the separation struggles, which is like a sadness over maybe not being as close or things in life changing and our child can cry about it, things can really shift. I'll give you an example.
00:20:29
Speaker
So our daughter is starting a new school, junior kindergarten. So first time going to kindergarten, it's a big deal for a highly sensitive girl and for any child truly. And we've just had a lot of other changes in our life going on. So a lot of new things.
00:20:45
Speaker
She hasn't cried about it at all, but she's been very clingy and whiny and all of that. Last night, we are going to go walk to the park and Scott and I just bought a new wagon. It's great. We love it. Our old wagon that we've been using is absolutely falling apart and literal trash. Like it's so bad. It's like our stroller was. It's so bad. Our daughter sits down in the old wagon.
00:21:10
Speaker
And she goes, we're taking the old wagon to the park today. I said, no, I'm not driving that thing to the park. We have a brand new wagon. It works great. We're going to go and in the new wagon. She says, Nope, I'm not going in the new wagon. And I said,
00:21:24
Speaker
I'm not going to the park with you unless you go in the new wagon, set a boundary, that's fine. She loses her mind. Like she's sitting in the old wagon and she has not had a meltdown like this in a long, long time. Like she's four and her meltdowns have been pretty rare lately. This was epic. It was screaming, it was hitting, it was yelling.
00:21:46
Speaker
It was crying and I sit beside her as she's doing all this. And I go, huh, I wonder if sometimes new things are a little bit tricky. And the tears just started streaming down her face. And she just goes, new is really hard. It just like starts balling. And I have to go to a new school too.
00:22:11
Speaker
Oh, okay. There it is. Profound. It was profound. I said to Scott after him, like, there it is. You know, like I could see this girl as being angry and defiant because she won't get in this new wagon. But I immediately identified what was going on because I was like, yeah.
00:22:28
Speaker
this is another change for you, you know? And this is little, but sometimes the tears that need to come out will be over something that seems new, right? But it's not about that. But they're related. But they're related. And so I just sat by the cider and my other, my toddler's running around and I just go, yeah, new things are really tricky sometimes. I'm just like, it's so tricky. And like, I don't know. I, I,
00:22:52
Speaker
Can't go to the new school. It's so tricky. I don't know anybody there. And she just starts telling me all the concerns that she's having with the new school. And I just go, okay, how about you hop in the new wagon and then let's talk about it ah on our walk. And it was fine. So it wasn't about the wagon. yeah And she didn't actually care about the wagon. She loves a new wagon. We know that, right? So she hops in the new wagon the whole way over. We talk about school and how we're going to prepare for it and how mommy's going to be looking out for her and all the things that we're going to do to help her feel close to me while she's at school, right? Like we're going to make matching bracelets and we're going to write hearts on both of our hands. and
00:23:30
Speaker
I'm gonna put notes in her lunch so she can think of me and and we do all of that and then she's feeling a lot better by the time we get to the park. But those are the moments that I think we sometimes miss and then punish that child for, right? So she's being quote unquote defiant, she won't get into the wagon she's supposed to.
00:23:49
Speaker
If at that moment I said, okay, go on timeout, you're not listening to me, right? And now I'm adding even more separation to this situation that's happening because of those emotions, like what lesson am I giving
Handling Meltdowns: Understanding Real Emotions
00:24:03
Speaker
her? And and that's why I want to have this conversation because I think it's so easy to slip into that because that behavior is so inconvenient to us and it's frustrating and it looks like defiance, but there's so much more going on underneath the surface.
00:24:19
Speaker
I was thinking about another example of this. Scott and I, we went to Portugal for our 10th anniversary. I feel like this is the prime example. Oh, yeah. Same daughter. Yep. Our highly sensitive kids will struggle even more with separation. but Same daughter, so we went to Portugal right before our anniversary and I did everything I could to try and bridge the separation before we went. ah Like I wrote her love notes, we talked about the trip, I put hearts on both of our hands, like I did all the things. But while we were away on on the trip, it was the longest I've ever been away from her.
00:24:55
Speaker
something like shut down in her towards me. So we didn't even have like the anger, the aggression, the pursuit. yeah She, to preserve herself, just shut down. Yeah. And I was her favorite. Yeah. When we got home, she would not be with me. She would not have a hug from me. She would not be by me. She called me gross and yucky. She told me she didn't like mommy over and over and over. She told me she only loved daddy.
00:25:21
Speaker
Like she pushed me away so hard yeah and it was honestly so difficult. Like internally, I was so sad. My own separation emotions were coming up. And so then I'm trying this, like this pursuit to get her close, but it was just pushing her away even more. And I can't say I, I didn't hate it.
00:25:40
Speaker
Well, you liked being the favorite one for a while. So while there was that. But I've never seen that type of behavior from her before. It was like she just shut down towards me and usually we're very close. yeah And it took me several weeks to rebuild that. And it was showing up for her in tiny moments. It probably took like over a month. Over a month maybe. It took a long time to rebuild it. Like for me as the parent, it was heartbreaking. And I can see how parents who don't know that I have to keep showing up, even when they keep pushing me away, right? Like I would do things like, I would just make her favorite food for dinner and be like, I'm thinking of you. I made your favorite food. I made you mac and cheese for dinner. She'd be like, I don't like mommy. And I have to control my reaction to that. And be like, it's not about that. Her defenses are just so high right now. She doesn't want to feel hurt.
00:26:33
Speaker
yeah She doesn't want to feel that separation again. So I have to tell myself that, right? Just keep showing up, Jess. Keep showing up. Even though she's saying she hates you and she doesn't like you. So I kept doing these little things that I knew mattered to her. Did she say that or did she just say, I like daddy?
00:26:47
Speaker
No, she would say, I don't like you, Mommy. Mommy, you're gross. I don't like you. Mommy's yucky. I got a lot of that. And I kept showing up for her, kept doing little things that I knew that she would like, kept just saying, you might think I'm yucky. That's okay. I do love you. And like, I just kept doing that over and over.
00:27:07
Speaker
And then one day Scott was away and we were watching TV and she won a certain show on. I couldn't figure it out. She said the show with the ball. I'm like, every show has a ball in it. Like, I don't know what show you're talking about. And she got so mad again. It was like this huge meltdown and she had not had a meltdown since before we left for Portugal. And this is like a month later and I was thinking to myself, man, this girl has some tears that have to come out eventually.
00:27:32
Speaker
right And tears, who says it's Gabor, Dr. Gabor Mate is like, we'll all be saved through an ocean of tears or something like that, right? Like we gotta have the tears. So eventually she goes, so mom, you gotta put the show on with the ball. And I'm like, I can't find it, hun. I'm trying, you know, I'm trying to help her. And she gets so mad at me. She starts hitting, yelling, having a meltdown. I'm like, hun, why are you so mad? And she just goes,
00:27:59
Speaker
You know why I'm mad at you. You left me. I'm like, oh, finally. Here we go. It took a month. And so I take her upstairs. It's just the two of us. And she's like.
00:28:11
Speaker
You left me, mommy. And she's just slapping me, hitting me. And i'm I'm trying to set boundaries around it, but I know internally I'm so happy. Like internally, I was so, so, so happy because I was like, I know this will be a turning point. She has to cry about how mad she was that I left on that trip.
00:28:31
Speaker
And by the way, when I went to Portugal, I had just gone to Nashville for a work trip before that. And I think I had one other work trip before that. So I had work trip 10 days away or whatever in Portugal. So it was a lot of separation for her. That's why it was so hard.
00:28:46
Speaker
Anyway, so she's hitting me. She's like slapping me. You know why I'm mad at you. You left me. And then I said, yeah, I didn't leave you. And that was really hard, wasn't it? And then she just sobbed in my arms. She stopped hitting all the things for like 30 minutes. She just cried. And I, of course, I'm bawling too.
00:29:06
Speaker
And we have this, course this moment of like hugging on the bed and this repair. And after that, there was no more your yucky mommy. I don't like you. It completely changed. And again, like in that moment when she's hitting me and the tears are finally about to come, those are the moments when parents are like, okay,
Guiding Children Through Separation Emotions
00:29:28
Speaker
go to your room. You're not listening.
00:29:29
Speaker
you know And I want to encourage parents that sometimes our children, they need to cry these tears, tears of futility, the tears about how hard life is, the tears of separation. And when we allow sadness, we can get to it, then we can move forward and we see less challenging behavior. You don't always have to fix everything, every single situation for your kids, because that's not reality either. I could never fix that situation. yeah It had to happen the way it happened. I mean, we didn't have to go on a 10th anniversary trip, but we did.
00:29:57
Speaker
yeah You know, I can't fix it. We went on that trip like that happened and I'm not going to sit there and be like, I'm so sorry. Mommy should have never went on the trip. Like that's not what it's about. She needed to feel the tears of how hard that was. And when I can be that calm presence for her, she learns that she can navigate disappointment. She can navigate grief. She can navigate these hard emotions.
00:30:20
Speaker
And how well will that serve her later in life? Like how many adults do we know who struggle with angry? Oh, that guy's really angry. He's just an angry man. right That woman. Yeah. She's just rude. Like, are they rude? Are they angry or are they sad? And they can't feel that sadness.
Closing Remarks and Listener Engagement
00:30:37
Speaker
I would argue that they're sad and underneath an angry man or and an angry woman is those tears that can't come out because they're so highly defensive and they don't have a way to feel safe to let out those tears. So that's separation for you. It's just very chill topic. Very chill topic. Yeah. Well, I think that's a good place to end. Yeah. I think if people have a, Any questions or comments, please send us an email, but I think that... Yeah, and I'm sure you will. This is... It's a big topic. Yeah. And it's one we'll talk about again and again, but it's something that I think is just incredibly important to have in mind. Yeah, for sure. A lot of that stuff is new information for me too, so... Okay, well, there you go. Thanks for sharing.
00:31:21
Speaker
Well, thank you for listening again to my ramblings. I'm happier here. And Scott and I also just want to say, well, I'm just making this up, but I think you want to say this too. Just thank you for the support of the podcast. Yeah. um It's been amazing support. Yeah. It's been amazing support. We read the DMS. Like if you send them to me on Nurtured First, I read them to Scott. We talk about them together. Your feedback on this podcast is what shapes it.
00:31:47
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. We're trying to make it evolve into what people want. So, I mean, it being our first few months doing this, we appreciate all the support and the, uh, the feedback that we've received so far. Yeah. Thank you so much. Like we could never have imagined how many lives this podcast would already touch. And that comes from you listening, sharing it, talking about it. And we just really appreciate you. So thank you. We're so glad that you're here.
00:32:16
Speaker
thanks see you next time talk next
00:32:22
Speaker
Hey friends, thank you so much for listening to today's episode. We are glad that you are here. If you enjoyed today's episode and found it interesting, we'd really appreciate it if you'd leave a rating and a review. Scott and I actually sit down together and read them all. A five star rating helps us share our podcast and get these important messages out there. Thank you so much for listening and we can't wait to talk to you again next time.