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13NoH S2.N9: Suspiria 1977 w/ Journey With A Cinephile Podcast
27 Plays6 months ago
Night 9 of 13 Nights of Halloween: Suspiria (1977) Tonight, we’re venturing into the vividly twisted world of Dario Argento’s *Suspiria* (1977)—a true visual and auditory horror masterpiece. Prepare yourself for a journey through a kaleidoscope of terror with one of the most influential horror films of all time. Joining us is David from @journeywithacinephile, bringing his expertise to unravel the dark magic behind Argento’s cult classic. From the haunting score by Goblin to the mesmerizing color palette, we’re diving deep into what makes *Suspiria* a timeless piece of horror history. Pair this cinematic experience with our signature Goblin’s Blood Elixir cocktail, exclusively on our Instagram! Don’t forget to tune in on Zencastr with our promo link for 30% off and immerse yourself in the witchy wonders of *Suspiria*: [https://zencastr.com/?via=theaverage](https://zencastr.com/?via=theaverage) Step into the dance of death—*Suspiria* awaits… #13NightsOfHalloween #Suspiria1977 #HorrorMovies #DarioArgento #RemakesVsOriginals #JourneyWithACinephile #Podcast #HalloweenCountdown #HorrorCommunity #CocktailPairing #FilmReviews #ZencastrPromo #SeasonFinale
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Transcript
Mysterious Encounter Introduction
00:00:17
Speaker
are
00:00:27
Speaker
oh is it Who's there? I've been expecting you, the American girl. I knew you'd come. You want to kill me? You want to kill Elena Marcus?
00:00:48
Speaker
are
00:01:40
Speaker
are This is Tim.
Episode Introduction: Horror Remakes vs. Originals
00:01:45
Speaker
This is Jonathan. And this is the average. Welcome. to episode 9 of our spine-tingling 13 Nights of Halloween series. This season, we're delving into the realm of horror by pitting the remakes against their original counterparts to see how they fare in the ultimate battle of fright. Tonight, we're stepping into the haunting and visually stunning world of Dario Argento's 1977 masterpiece, Suspiria.
00:02:16
Speaker
Remember, we want you to be a part of this whole thing. Watch along with us, share your thoughts and reviews. We have the handy little link in our Instagram bio where you can submit your scores the exact same way we do. Whether you're a fan of the originals or prefer the remakes, your opinion matters. We'll be tallying up the scores, tagging everyone who submits a review and provides a valid tag to see how they how these head-to-head scores play out. When Halloween rolls around,
00:02:44
Speaker
and we're stuck in the gray despair of days until next Halloween. We'll post the winners, original or the remake? Which is the best original and which is the best remake?
Guest Introduction: David from Journey with the Cinephile
00:02:55
Speaker
We're thrilled to be joined by David from the Journey with the Cinephile podcast, whose deep appreciation for horror films will bring new insights to our discussion. David, thank you.
00:03:05
Speaker
Yeah, thanks for having me back again here for this one. So this is just one that I believe this is my first Argento film that I ever had seen back when I first started delving into his filmography. And now he has got himself to be my second most seen director of all time. All right, so To truly immerse yourself in the atmosphere of Suspiria, we recommend tonight's cocktail, the Goblin's Blood Elixir, a drink inspired by the film's vibrant colors and the composer of the soundtrack. So, it's the perfect way to enhance your viewing experience. Now, let's dive in to the plot of this iconic... What is going on? Sorry.
00:03:51
Speaker
my monitor started, like the Siri in my monitor started reacting to when I read the cocktail, she was like, I can't find goblins, but it looks okay. Great technology. My watch does that. I'm not even talking to it. I just jump in and start talking. I'm like, stop it. You are freaking me out. I didn't push any buttons. Why are you talking about? It happens when I'm driving sometimes.
00:04:15
Speaker
Now, let's dive into the plot of this iconic film.
Plot Breakdown: 'Suspiria'
00:04:19
Speaker
Suspiria follows the story of young American ballet student Susie Banyan, played by Jessica Harper, who travels to a prestigious dance academy in Germany. Upon her arrival, she begins to sense that something is not quite right at her school. Her suspicions are soon confirmed when a series of brutal murders and strange occurrences reveal that the academy is a front for a coven of witches.
00:04:43
Speaker
The film is renowned for its bold use of color, surreal set designs, and an unforgettable score by, as we mentioned in the cocktail, the Italian rock band Goblin, which amplifies the nightmarish quality. Directed by legendary Dario Argento and co-written by Dario Niccolotti,
00:05:02
Speaker
no relation to Nickelodeon, Suspiria features an in international cast that includes Defania Cassini as Sarah, Flavio Bucci as Daniel, and Joanne Bennett as Madame Blanc. So as we explore the artistic brilliance and chilling narrative of Suspiria with David's expertise and our deep dive into this horror classic, we're in for an evening of captivating discussion that's sure to leave you spellbound.
00:05:31
Speaker
That's a Hitchcock movie. But anyways, let's get into this. David, let's hear what you thought of the story. um Yeah, this one, the first time I saw it, I kind of get immersed in the visuals so much that by the end of it, I'm kind of like, I don't really necessarily know if I know how much of the story, if it makes sense, just because there's so many just weird set pieces and everything. This one, I do believe benefits from multiple watches, where it does make more sense as you kind of watch things and start piecing things together.
00:06:04
Speaker
And there's just some interesting kind of plot points that we kind of go along as well. Like there is, you know, Susie finally showing up to the school and kind of going through everything and then how she's so defiant and it kind of gets under the skin, especially of like Madame Blanc where it's like, oh, your your room's available now. Like you said, you're going to stay here. And her being like, no, like I'm not.
00:06:26
Speaker
Like I'm just going to kind of stay where I'm at, like where they're going here. And then you kind of see some of the people that you don't necessarily realize are actually involved with what's going on underneath the scenes. That stuff like that kind of helps build my stuff here. So I actually came in with a four
Debate: Understanding 'Suspiria's' Story
00:06:41
Speaker
for my like story and plot on this one.
00:06:44
Speaker
Okay. very Right on. So I agree with you on part of that. um Definitely totallyly a lot different versus the more recent remake. um it was just man There was such a big switch up from what I saw in the other one. and like I agree with you in the fact that if you you definitely should watch it more than once because it will probably bring out a lot more to you if you do.
00:07:07
Speaker
But just on the one watch through I did of it um There just seems like there's so much missing out of the story that could have gave a little more context a little more depth Versus what you get in the the newer version of Suspiria So Considering those differences even though trying to be objective and thinking about it as if I've only ever seen it without seeing the remake I still feel like it's kind of sits kind of middle ground for me I'm i'm sticking with a three on this one Okay, I understand what both of you are saying. I will say I watched this movie three times before recording. Each time I kind of pick up a little bit more. And so it does benefit from that. However, I think this story is also intentionally very vague and very light.
00:07:56
Speaker
I think it's not a really, there's not a whole lot of depth to it. So I do think the remake, by the way, because we are now discussing the original, the remake is fully on the table to compare and contrast.
00:08:09
Speaker
um yeah I do think the remake did a nice job of kind of delving into the story a little bit more in unpacking up the Academy, even though I'm still, you know, i I said I did not enjoy the remake, still don't necessarily. But having watched the remake, I had a better understanding of what's going on in this film. So this film on its own I think kind of struggles to establish that because I think ultimately this is not a story about the dance academy. This is a nightmare.
00:08:49
Speaker
yeah this is basically a dream sequence that is unfolding in a very narrative fashion. the And there's a lot, you go into the direction and all of that. And I watched this story and I was like, man, this has more in common, at least for me, it's borrowing It's borrowing a lot of those Giallo elements, which is what Argento's known for. But I would struggle to just call this a Giallo film because it doesn't have that, it's a little more supernatural than typical. um But it just has this dreamlike, almost haunted house feel to it that the remake does not.
00:09:35
Speaker
yeah So, and I think part of that is like in a dream, we don't always fully understand what's going on. So I think those things are left intentionally out of the story.
00:09:47
Speaker
yeah So we get just enough to kind of keep us moving along, but I think ultimately this movie is visual more than narrative. And I think that is a stark contrast. look We mentioned ah the remake. He did a good job not remaking this film.
00:10:07
Speaker
right You retold the story. Yeah. And I think that that is going to appeal to two different audiences, because if you are there for the story, you're going to like that remake a little bit more. If you're here for the visual feast, you're going to like this one. So i I ultimately, as far as the story goes, I did give it a three. I thought it was good. It's original. This idea of a dance academy run by a coven of witches. But
00:10:37
Speaker
It needs that rewatch to kind of pick up on a lot of those clues. It's not super clear. It's not super in your face about what's going on. But man, I have a lot of positives to say about this film as we go. But yeah, I gave it a three as well. I thought it was a good story. But I don't think this the story is why I show up for this film in all honesty. So
Exploring Giallo Genre
00:11:02
Speaker
that's for sure. And I mean, I actually just kind of add some interesting context here just because I have
00:11:08
Speaker
kind of, I've also watched a documentary about him recently is that Daria Nicolodi was his partner and this is actually based on things that her grandmother told her and this actually strained their relationship because he didn't want to give her a whole lot of credit Because at the time he was a rock star over in Italy and had gotten success over in the United States and this movie came out after deep red because he had did his animal trilogy and Then he did a comedy that flopped and so he kind of was like, you know what?
00:11:41
Speaker
I'm going to go back to my roots. I'm going to do deep red. And then this came out after that because it was him trying to move away from just doing straight Giallo because that's what his like made him famous and everything like that. He wanted to go try to do other things. And so it's kind of interesting that he does incorporate so many elements of those type of films into this.
00:11:59
Speaker
And just kind of watching a lot of Italian cinema, they are not great necessarily about explaining a lot of things. They kind of just leave it up to the viewer to be like, here's what I'm going to show you. And you roll with it, where I do agree that the nightmare logic is what they kind of lean into a lot with this one. And some things just don't necessarily always make sense there. Yeah. I actually, you mentioned my favorite Argento film. I love Deep Red. Yes. I've never heard of it until now. Oh, my God. I love Deep Red. I've watched that one many times. it yeah I couldn't tell you what it is exactly. I think his camera work yeah is just like...
00:12:35
Speaker
a little better in that one. He's great with the camera always, but there's something about that movie I love. All right. Yeah, that's great insight. That's why we have you here. I want to hear more of those things. One one thing yeah I got to ask, so I've heard you both say the term giallo. Yes. Yes. is thatrisco I'm not familiar with that term. Giallo is, it's kind of, I'm going to get blasted if I say this incorrectly. It's kind of,
00:13:00
Speaker
The Italian predecessor to slashers yes to the American slasher. So the Italians were doing it in the 70s. It's actually named after the color of the blood because the blood looks very fake. It's very bright, more like paint.
00:13:16
Speaker
But I've always found Italian the giallo films have more of a detective story than American slashers But they're always honestly, there's some of the most brutal kills I've seen they make American slashers look silly. And they're, they're fantastic. But they're definitely like, you either watch a dubbed div version and you have to deal with that, which I watched a dubbed Suspiria, I could not find an original. ah So I was disappointed by that. But you either watch a dubbed one and you deal with the mouths, or you find an Italian version. um The New York, I think it's the New York Ripper. yeah Oh, yeah. That that movie,
00:14:02
Speaker
yeah what you f is another easy yeah Yeah, very sleazy director. Very sleazy, very uncomfortable. I think he sliced a nipple open with a razor in that one. i ah eyeball so Eyeball stuff with razors. It's all like the Italian stuff is crazy, man. got aer Talks like Donald Duck.
00:14:24
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. New York Rippers, serial killer talks like Donald Duck on the phone. Yoke for Donald Duck voice. It's a wild film. An Italian film set in New York too. It's great.
Character Development Critique
00:14:36
Speaker
Okay. Let's remind me of that one later so I can check that out. Yeah. the Maybe we just do a giallo segment because they're a lot of fun. They're a lot of fun. Some of them are really good. Some of them are wild. But yeah, deep red is highly recommended. ah I think it's still, after watching Suspiria, I think it's still my favorite Argento.
00:14:55
Speaker
That seems to be the common thing there, is that those two tend to be the most popular of his works, where most people that I've talked to, those are the two that they kind of debate, which is the top. Yeah. i Now that you mention it, those are the two that I hear most frequently referred to with Argento. you i And is it the bird with the crystal plumage? Is that one of his first ones? Yeah. Yeah, that was actually his first film, yeah. OK, yep.
00:15:23
Speaker
So onto character, David, what do you think about Susie Banyan in this one? the See, this one is where I do kind of think this lacks a bit, especially because sue I love Jessica Harper as our lead here. I've seen her in just some random things here and there. I've actually, she's in the pseudo sequel to Rocky Horror Picture Show of shock treatment where she actually sings and she has a phenomenal voice.
00:15:48
Speaker
It's very kind of different because it's very deep for a woman, but I think she's a good actress. I just don't think she's great necessarily in this movie, especially because she spends most of this one kind of drugged up by everybody who is in this one. But I do think that we do have some interesting characters.
00:16:07
Speaker
Something weird here is that the original idea for this movie was to have them be 12-year-olds, but then when they kind of started looking at things, it was a little bit too racy to kind of do some of these things with children involved. A little bit. So that's why they're like, you know what? And that's why some of the dialogue comes off awkward at times, because it still feels like they never updated it. And I think it kind of hurts the development there. So I ended up coming in with a three for character.
00:16:34
Speaker
OK, right on. Yeah, that definitely explains some things. See here that we would address in the script. For sure. Yeah. ah So, yeah, I mean, but the characters in this one in comparison. Yeah. So for the characters, you know, there there weren't as many characters yeah that you had any kind of real focus on. Compared to the remake, I mean, it all mostly fake focuses just mostly on Susie, Sarah, and a couple of the heads of the Academy with just a lot of just like kind of barely noticeable side characters, yeah you know? um Like even what was that guy's name, Daniel or something? the The one dude that was there at the Academy. Like he had small bits, but he didn't really have much of a part to play. There maybe could have been something more with him maybe if they had put more into that. But like, yeah.
00:17:27
Speaker
just I don't know, I feel like it fell kind of flat on characters for me. Susie is the main character. There was just so much lacking of character development, I think, with her, because she just comes out of nowhere as this dance student from America, and she's just there, blah, bla blah, blah. No, I don't want to stay here. I'm going to stay with Olga instead. Then shit falls out, blah, blah. Then she's forced to stay because she feels ill. They're doing all this weird shit.
00:17:54
Speaker
But like dude does there's nothing really happens with her too much, aside from her being like, okay, well you know where did Sarah go? What happened with her? She just disappeared. Oh, I don't know. dodoooo And then like her just kind of being like, oh, I hear sounds. Oh, maybe they're going somewhere different in the building. Oh, okay, maybe I'll go follow it and figure it out. Oh, what's going on here? Oh, here's Madame Marcos. And the did then she just like wanders out of the building while it's on fire. And it's like, okay, well, what the hell?
00:18:23
Speaker
There's, did it it just fell really flat for me, but it was still like for the times, I guess it's averagely serviceable. So I give it a three. I was truly tempted to go with a two on it because of how flat it fell with any kind of character growth. Did you miss what happened to Sarah?
00:18:39
Speaker
No, no, I know what happened to Sarah. i saw him just just you know She disappears and then Susie's like, Oh my God, what happened? it Oh, well she left this morning at six. dana oh her rs shit you know Sarah's one of the iconic. I mean, all of the kills in this movie are pretty iconic. ah Most from falling through the window at the beginning to Sarah in that razor wire. Dude, I hated that part so bad. It was so rough. But even that, yeah just yeah three three all around on character for me. Okay, we're in agreement here. I don't think character is one of the strong suits of this film. This is one that I would actually argue that I think the remake did a little bit better on character. It definitely went into making it more of a character driven drama. I don't
00:19:35
Speaker
I still prefer this movie i because I, again, with the story, I don't think that's why we're here. I do like Susie in this kind of innocent, doe-eyed person who I'm not sure how much growth we see. She shows up very independent and she leaves very independent. yeah But we do see some growth with Sarah realizing there's some stuff going on around her that she was not familiar with and kind of uncovering that mystery. But ultimately,
00:20:08
Speaker
it's not overwhelmingly compelling as far as a character drama. So for me, I also gave it a three. I think it's good. I think the characters, I prefer fewer characters. I prefer having our Sarah and Susie and then three or four supporting cast. That's, that's what I want to follow. And yeah, I don't think characters is one of the strong suits of this, but man,
00:20:33
Speaker
So moving on to, well, before we do though, I do want to comment though. Okay. It's really nice in comparison that we didn't have the whole Dr. Kemper thing going on like super extra long with all that extra BS, right but I still feel like some of those other weird cares like that little boy nephew, like yeah ultimately that dude served no purpose for the most part.
00:20:54
Speaker
all The girl who stabbed herself in the neck in the other movie. No idea who he is, he's always doing everything. Both movies have this character that we know nothing about that is just kind of weird.
00:21:09
Speaker
yeah Yeah, it was creepy, but I liked it. They had a little bit of like the one guy who turned up to be a therapist, which they don't really explain the connection with Susie. And then like the the professor who comes over and tells her about the witches. You know, it was cool that they had those in there to kind of give more context to the backstory with the witch situation. So that was nice. I like that doctor who prescribed wine for her heart.
00:21:31
Speaker
build their blood back up. So that's what I told my wife. that I need to drink wine every night, build my blood back up. It's an Italian Giallo remedy. I still want to know where that little like medieval English countryside boy just came from. He baffled me every time I saw him. but entire food like what the hell you David mentioned the children. They originally wanted 12 year olds. Having 12 year olds hung from the ceiling and stabbed in the heart would be kind of be wild yeah that's yeah that would be wild
00:22:04
Speaker
yeah no no he's not yodooski i'm taking bull at all But that's also part of the set design, why they appear so small in the set design is because he still wanted to give that illusion that they are younger than the actors portraying them. So that's why he had most of the doorknobs at eye level for the girls, which I thought was interesting. So that's why they always appear like the walls are super high. it I thought that was cool. Before we jump into the next category,
00:22:39
Speaker
I want to tell you a little bit about Zencaster.
Zencastr Promotion
00:22:42
Speaker
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00:23:04
Speaker
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00:23:29
Speaker
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00:23:51
Speaker
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00:24:11
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all of my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. So let's dive in to the next category. So onto the music and sound design. this yeah yeah yeah one um mean All I can say here is I'm a huge goblin fan and a lot of it was just because my dad who randomly had VHS tapes of like just different like movies that he had saw trailers for and had collected them so I got introduced to them pretty I mean I got introduced to them through Dawn of the Dead originally because they do part of that original score and And then I started seeking out more of them the older I got like around college age. So I love this soundtrack. It is one that I listen to pretty regularly. So I came in with a hard five out of five on this one. Really? Wow. Yeah. No, I'm curious to see Jonathan's.
00:25:07
Speaker
Uh, yeah, I'm definitely further down the scale on that for me. I mean, I'm not a fan of like the banging harpsichord sounds like those just kind of great on my nerves. I get kind of like the style for Italian kind of sound design. I think at that time.
00:25:23
Speaker
But I mean, it was OK. I mean, there were some there were some good tension in parts to kind of help heighten certain like more tense scenes of discovery and like wander through the halls, you know especially like when Sarah is like kind of wandering through and to get all the red and lights. And then she goes up to the attic and everything that happens with her and trying to escape that small room. You know, it was cool with that. It's just I just I really i just not a fan of the sound of harpsichord action. The little tinkle tinkle sounds of some of the stuff was kind of nice, whatever.
00:25:58
Speaker
but I don't know. The rest of it was just kind of an ambient sound that just was just there. So I'm kicking it at a two. Wow, that's that's harsh. Yeah, it's not a harpsichord. I cannot remember exactly what it is. Yeah, it's it's an Egyptian instrument that sounds very similar to it. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I'm not normally drawn to that kind of sound. However, this I love this soundtrack. i I'm on board with it. I think just the use of creepy like whispers and voices, which is just gibberish. The people have stated there was nothing like hidden in the soundtrack. It's just gibberish in there for effect. ah As I stated earlier, it's more like a nightmare in a haunted house.
00:27:12
Speaker
kind of feel and I think this music heightens that so well. I think the two things this movie does incredibly are just the whole art side of this film and the music. I love the music in this however I don't like how often the songs are repeated instead of bringing in some new elements to it. It's the same thing over and over. And there's there's a couple different themes in it. They're all really solid, but there's not, maybe on repeated watches I'd get the variation on it. I did come in at a four because I think it's really good if
00:27:54
Speaker
It was almost a five for me because if you played that opening theme from Suspiria, I'm gonna recognize it. Yeah. I'm gonna know that is the Suspiria theme immediately. However, not everybody would.
00:28:10
Speaker
So not everybody's gonna immediately recognize it. Like I said, it it gets to where that is the thing played at big important scenes instead of any variation. So I'm nitpicking on it, but I gave it a four, i so almost a five because I do really like the soundtrack. Again though, it's one that while a deep red is not as iconic, I prefer the soundtrack on deep red.
00:28:38
Speaker
Yeah. I go back and forth myself where they are both just ones that if I'm writing something, I definitely want to get into the move. Like those are two of the ones that I'm like, you know, I'm going to put. I haven't heard this one recently. Let's go ahead and put that one on. So. deeper there's Anyways, we're not talking about deep red tonight. We're talking about.
00:28:56
Speaker
right Yeah, I
Debate: Strengths and Weaknesses of 'Suspiria'
00:28:58
Speaker
give it a four. I think it's it's pretty fantastic soundtrack. It's definitely unique. yeah Argento's use of Goblin in a lot of his films definitely sets him apart from what others are doing. And I think that's pretty iconic. So onto the editing and special effects for this one. This one here is that
00:29:23
Speaker
i was I'm very high on this one just because the death sequences are so cool with the different things that he does with it. You kind of already brought up like that opening kill where it ends up as a twofer where he that woman gets knocked through that wind or that I guess kind of like weird skylight window thing and then ends up breaking this glass and then killing the person who's trying to flee underneath. Like that's great.
00:29:53
Speaker
are
00:30:18
Speaker
the cutting open of the chest and like the stabbing of the heart and just how visceral that looks is so great. Really the one bit, and then not only that, but you also have later in the movie where you have Sarah and what's kind of happened to her as they're using her as like a vessel for evil is so creepy looking and what they do there.
00:30:38
Speaker
Really? yeah guys pinned open yeah with those and and then Not with that, but I mean, the death that they use right after that is also pretty gross with stabbing of, you know, the mother there. The only thing I have an issue with, though, is the bat sequence that we get in the middle. of Oh, God. yeah um just mention that I will say this time around, so I have the 4K. I watched it is that I've seen bats that were done after this movie that I'm like, okay, that was worse than this one here. so That's the only way I kind of give it a little bit of doing it. How you can justify it? Right. right and i mean The other thing for the editing, it does feel quite tight where it doesn't really have a lot of lag in different things they do. They don't do great as we kind of said about developing the story, but at least it keeps it interesting where
00:31:24
Speaker
I don't feel like there's a lot of wasted scenes at least where something is at least progressing the story on in some way or form. So I came in here as a five as well. So the only one before we get into Jonathan's thoughts yeah ah that I've wondered about why it exists and maybe you having more watches can explain it to me. Is that bat sequence?
00:31:46
Speaker
where come from What is that about? I'm not. The only thing I can think of there is just that I believe you're supposed to be seeing its eyes kind of flickering on and off before she opens that window. So I'm just kind of assuming that it's the coven is trying to do something against her. And that's kind of just trying to freak her out and see if that will take care of her. But that's the only thing I can kind of think of there. And then it's just another creepy scene.
00:32:12
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. That's, that's the, when you're talking about wasted scenes, that's the only one that I'm like, I'm not exactly sure what's going on in this one with the stuffed animal flying around. yeah john What did you think about editing in special effects?
00:32:31
Speaker
With the, in regards to the bat, like that, I didn't quite get that either. Cause it's like, it's like, oh, there's a bat. Oh God, I'm freaking out. It's all the mayor, which is, is, I'm sure it's something that freaks a lot of women out. So maybe that was just an extra thing to give women a bit of a fright in the theaters. you're Not just women. I was staying at my parents' house and my wife and I get there. They're gone. My wife and I get there. It's like 10 o'clock at night. We're unloading the dogs. We're staying there just overnight because we have something the next day.
00:32:59
Speaker
put in our food in the refrigerator and then over my head. The bat got into their house, flying around their kitchen. It's kind of terrifying to have a bat swimming around your head indoors. it's one I love bats. Honestly, I don't know many people who are like, bats are awesome. I think bats are awesome. But when you're inside a house,
00:33:25
Speaker
It's kind of creepy. It is very unsettling. So i' I'm going to not just women. I was very uncomfortable having a bat in the house. like thats but Yeah, like once it's once like it seems like it's trying to gravitate towards like whatever metal dangly thing was in the corner. or Maybe that was just, you know, them handling it poorly. I don't know. But once it's on the ground and he's trying to clap at her, you can tell it's just like, OK, that's just a furry motorized. Yeah.
00:33:54
Speaker
thing going you know it's like dude come on on that was kind of like whatever but the rest of it as far as the special effects go when you see Sarah when she hops to that little window and the attic into that room it's like she looks she should have been able to see the razor wire there before she jumps into it you know and like Didn't quite make slight sense in that scene for me, but seeing her flop around and freaking out and like, just calm down, just calm down. You can get out like, you should be okay. you know She's not gonna hear me, but like, whatever. Still gonna be like, just stop moving around. But then when like see the person, whoever's attacking her comes in and you see that that one moment, that quick few seconds where you see that razor come across the neck and you see the skin split open. Oh man. I was like, that's awesome. That was a cool effect. I was all for it. That was like my favorite.
00:34:44
Speaker
a bit of the effects in the whole film. That was like- That's what Giala's known for. they're They're very visceral, but I think he cut open pork skin. I think that's what it was. Yeah, that's what it looked like. It looked like a horse skin part of a neck. It split open like you would think flesh would. And there's that quick transition to the eyes. When you see her just being like, oh, no, oh, I'm dying kind of the thing, you know, yeah which was kind of good. And that was a nice little bit of editing in that right there from that transition, that quick cut of the neck, then the quick cut to the face as it scales up.
00:35:15
Speaker
um but a lot of But I feel like there were some kind of blunt transitions between scenes, especially in certain small parts where I feel like it could have been smoother. ah But overall, the the camera direction and the angles I think were pretty good, even with like some of the movement that you had going around.
00:35:33
Speaker
when they're trying to follow characters throughout the Dance Academy. um But like you said earlier, David, with that that twofer kill, man, when she falls out through the glass, everything breaking down and coming down on her and then seeing the other girl impaled by a part of like the framing of the window plus the glass shards in the face. yeah that That was placed really well. And I thought that was pretty awesome. But even more so.
00:35:58
Speaker
Poor Daniel, the blind piano player. Yes. god I'm glad you brought him up. yeah okay can you bri him The way those witches had his own service dog attack him. awful i notated mike dogs You don't see the body, but you can see the stretches of meat of the dog pulling the meat from the what's supposed to be the body. I was like, that's pretty cool. That basically upset me. I was like getting ill watching that because, yeah, it's off camera. But seeing this dog rip meat off and it's implied it's his face I was like m that's some great framing though to not be able to see like the seams of that and just seeing the meat get ripped up that you're just that your brain fills in that you're like oh my god that's his neck but you know that literally just meat that he's tearing apart that's probably what like beef something just something that has a lot of just like
00:36:52
Speaker
fiber and tendons just gives like yeah skin stuff to just stretch, you know, as it gets pulled off. It's so good. So gnarly. set about Like it's his service dog made it that much more tragic. and he's saying with this dog ah First of all,
00:37:09
Speaker
We're going into this now because that dog upset me so much. um But they come in and they tell him like, your dog bit the boy from England circa 1700. You know, the dog bit the boy. Yeah. The dog did not bite the boy. I don't believe it for a second. oh I don't believe it for a second.
00:37:30
Speaker
big German looking maid lady or their witchery making the dog go off. but rachel say the show It definitely was witchcraft. It's something to make that dog like lash out at them.
00:37:41
Speaker
Yep. I think that David would have beat it with a rolling pin and the dog would have ran off. I think when she came in, it was all set up to get him to leave with the dog because they had already cast a spell on the dog. That dog didn't bite the boy. That was a good dog until they did. I know. That made me kind of mad. I was like, that dog did not deserve it. And Daniel didn't deserve that, dammit. He was a blind piano player trying to do what he can.
00:38:07
Speaker
bogus But overall, um like so the the blood and the color, I know it's the signature for the time, but that was kind of like kind of seemed hokey to me with the how bright it is. But it's just me. But overall, I gave the editing and special effects a three. OK, so I think I gave you my thoughts during both of your discussions. And the the dog chewing his neck and face. Like I've seen enough of these movies that don't get upset at it that much? That one upset me. The whole situation upset me. The rest of it I think is super cool. ah You know, the face in half by the glass. I gave it a five because honestly I forgot about the bat.
00:38:55
Speaker
by the time this movie ended, I forgot about the bat. I forgot it was even in there. ah Because it's so, to me, it's insignificant. I could cut the scene and live without it. ah However, I also think this goes into the editing, is that this was one of the last films shot, if not the last, in Technicolor. I think so. So the way, yeah, and the way Technicolor is filmed is part of why this movie looks the way it does. Like, I i don't know if you could recreate this.
00:39:32
Speaker
without filming it in the same way. I'm sure there's a digital way to do it now, but part of the way this film looks so vibrant and so colorful is it was done the same way as Wizard of Oz. You know, it was done the same way it was done. Yeah, and it was one of the last, if not the last film to shoot a movie that way. And I think that's, I think that's incredible. I think it adds to this film. I would love to see, man, um that's a whole tangent I'm not gonna go into. ah I would love to see some of these older styles used with modern technology, you know, shoot shoot on film and just edit it on computer. i Like it looks better. I still think it looks better. um But yeah, I think that has to go into this editing as well. So I gave it a five. I think this movie is pretty standout. I mean, it's up there with a lot of GLO special effects. They all have very visceral,
00:40:31
Speaker
often uncomfortable in graphic kills that are done and they're uncomfortable in graphic because of how well they're done. So it's a five for me on the editing and special effects. So on onto the script. this is This is another one that... Yeah, this one we've kind of already touched on some of like my issues with the writing is that As a story guy, it does bother me sometimes that they don't put a little bit more into it to help drive it. And I mean, a lot of that goes back to like not fleshing out like Susie and not giving her more of like a character arc, just because there are such interesting things that they do and show. And so like for me, I want more of that. And I mean, it could even be as simple as how they go to see that one doctor who knew um
00:41:26
Speaker
who knew Sarah and then when she like disappears that's why Susie starts to reach out to her to kind of figure out what's going on there like even more of that because it almost just feels like a little bit of like an info dump there just so you kind of can progress into the last part of it and then I mean I will also say that one of Argento's trademarks when it comes to like his, especially his Giallo films, is the main character hearing something and not remembering it. So I do love that he incorporates that when Suzy arrives at the Dance Academy because she kind of hears about that iris and how you have to turn it to...
00:41:59
Speaker
that find a secret passage. And then you kind of get more of that develop that you realize that, oh, before she disappeared, she was talking to Sarah. So Sarah knew this information. And then, but Sarah didn't reveal it fast enough to Susie. And then Susie told the teachers saying, so then that makes them where they're not a target because of just how there's misinformation. So I do think incorporating some of those like jello murder mystery type stuff helps it a bit, but I still feel like it needs just a little bit more to fully kind of go where it needs to.
00:42:26
Speaker
So I had to come in with a four on the story for this one for me, or for the script. okay but okay um I'm just going to be flat out about it. I just gave it a three. It just seemed kind of middle of the road for me yeah because I mean, a lot of the dialogue throughout most of it was just kind of just weak and offhand, you know, just really typical general conversation stuff for the most part, except for the parts where you know they're talking about what's going on with the rumors of the academy and possible witchery and what's going on. Other than that, I mean, there wasn't really much being delivered from the rest of the cast.
00:43:03
Speaker
with anything that was of any real import. I mean, there wasn't much, there wasn't really much in the maybe with like way of memorable lines that really stick out. So it's just, yeah, it just it was serviceable. Yeah, three. Man, I am, i'm I'm kind of with you on that. I wish the script was as memorable as the visuals in this film. And I think why would that would take this up. If we had some iconic lines delivered,
00:43:31
Speaker
I also think part of that is lost in, at least for me, the dubbing. yeah I hate it. You know, when you can read ah the subtitles from another language, it's often a better translation than dubbed. ah So I lost a little bit in the dubbing. I couldn't find a streaming and... I will say, there's kind of a weird fact about that is in and Italy at this time, there were so many international actors, they did not record audio while they were like doing movies.
00:44:01
Speaker
So what they would do is everything was done like, all right, this is the English cut. So these are going to be all the actors that are going to speak English for these characters. And because like the doctor is Udo Kier, who has is a classic, like he's been in like 200 films and done a lot of stuff in Hollywood. Like that's not even his voice. They don't recognize him. He looks familiar. He's super young in this one. So that's actually one of the weird things here is that.
00:44:25
Speaker
There's not a lot of Italian dubs of this movie just because they did record the audio in post-production and then dub everything over. Because I was in the same boat as you for a lot of these early on. It's like, I need to find this dubbed in its actual language. And then found out that I was like, oh, so like, there really isn't necessarily one that most releases will have just because of wherever it gets released, they just kind of keep that audio with it.
00:44:48
Speaker
I was reading that and I read that Argento was actually very disappointed because he loved ah Jessica Harper's voice. Yes. And it's lost in the dubbing. And so, but yeah, and I read that you each actor spoke their native language when the movie was recorded. And so that's why it's kind of yeah weird It's weird. It's like, I don't know what this person is telling me right now. but It's bizarre. It definitely adds to the bizarreness of it. But the I think there's a little bit lost in translation for movies like this. ah And I think without knowing that they are supposed to be. So he originally wanted them to be 12. And then he wrote it to where everybody, I believe, was under 19. I think so.
00:45:37
Speaker
and that's why they still act so childish, even though we're watching people in their 20s. And that's not clear unless you're doing research on the movie. Yes. Instead, you're just, when she's sitting there like, girls with, whose names start with the letter S, they're snakes or whatever, and you got this very childish exchange.
00:46:00
Speaker
susie Susie. Sarah. I once read that names which begin with the letter S are the names of snakes.
00:46:17
Speaker
That is cringy and like, but when you read that they're supposed to be like 13, 14, 19, you know, these varying ages like, oh, That fits. That makes sense. However, you got to do research to get there. It's not super clear. So I did dock it. And I do think, again, I don't think this is a script heavy film. I think we're Getting like the editing was there the soundtrack was there and then the direction when I get to those are the reasons you watch the film you don't watch it because like oh Yeah, that line she says because it's gonna be slightly different in every single version of the film So I came in at a three. I thought it was good. It wasn't a
00:47:04
Speaker
not super memorable. So yeah, I'm out of three on the script. The acting is another interesting one because of the dubbing. I think that affects the acting as well. So David. Yeah, no, that's exactly what I was thinking as we' we're kind of talking about it, just because and Knowing that that information, it does feel like that they're not necessarily understanding what people are saying. So I do think that it affects performances. And I'm also going to go back to the fact that they don't do great about fleshing out Susie, that this feels like Halloween too, where we have Jamie Lee Curtis, who's in bed most of the time in this movie. It's what i' what we're doing here with Susie, where she's not doing anything until Sarah disappears.
00:47:44
Speaker
I do think some of that acting, not when they're doing like the childish lines, more of the investigation type stuff, I think is good. And I actually think Olga, who is the one who said the snake line, I think she's fine back at her apartment in that one scene where they're kind of just talking, where you kind of see that she's vapid and everything. So I don't think the acting is horrible, but again, this isn't based on the characters necessarily. It's more about the other ancillary things that they really go hard into.
Dubbing and Acting Discussion
00:48:12
Speaker
So I came in with a three for the acting just because of that. OK. Right, right. Well, um now that I know that there was more of an issue that may po caught may play a part in how I perceive it with the the dubbing and the different languages, um I gave it a two because, I mean, primarily most of your focus is on Susie and Sarah with a few other people. There's so much more.
00:48:42
Speaker
people, more bodies that you see in this versus the remake, ah but you have less character involvement. And even with the few people that you are seeing, Susie did okay. you know that was That was all right. Sarah was all right for the most part. But everyone else, it just seemed like any lines they had, they were more just being straightforward, just a baseline delivery without putting much of a force or any kind of real emphasis on anything.
00:49:07
Speaker
So it just came really short on that for me. that That's why I'm hitting two. Yeah. OK. So I think I prefer Susie in this movie over the remake. I think Jessica Harper yes is far more interesting than Dakota Johnson was. However, I liked ah Man, I'm space, Mia goth yeah as Sarah in as the companion in the remake. She kicked ass. Yes, I prefer her in the remake over the Sarah in this film. I don't necessarily dislike the Sarah in this film. I thought she was good too. ah There's a lot of good scenes of the two of them where they're real close in and their faces are super close discussing things that I think are are good.
00:49:56
Speaker
I do think there's some, again, like the script, I think we lose some things in the translation on the acting, on the dubbing. That's my problem with dubs. I prefer to watch subtitles because we at least get the inflection and the emotion of the person performing. And I i definitely felt that watching this is, there was that disconnect.
00:50:19
Speaker
However, I didn't think there was anybody particularly bad. So i gave I gave it a three. I thought it was good acting overall. I definitely think... ah Jessica is better in this film, but I do prefer, like I said in the remake, Mia Goths, that's probably her best performance, although I need to get out and see Maxine. um But yeah, so I gave it a three on the acting. Again, this is one that I don't think many people are gonna watch this movie for the acting. So onto the category I can't wait to talk about, direction.
00:51:00
Speaker
yeah okay this ones dig in on that yeah it's ah I think we do some good things here. I mean goes out saying like just Argento just knows how to shoot like shoot a movie which is kind of interesting is that he was a writer before he was like a director so like you wouldn't expect this to be shot as well as it is. I also think that he worked with a few cinematographers throughout his career. So they kind of got to know what they're doing here, but he knows what the audience wants in a lot of these different shots. And I think that's actually a big thing. And I mean, another fun fact is in most of his yellow films, when you see the close up of like the black glove killer's hands, it's usually his.
00:51:39
Speaker
And like I was telling my wife this while we were watching this time around. And she was like, well, why would he want to do this? like Because he knew exactly what he wanted to be shown in these scenes. And I'm like, that's just brilliant to be able to kind of take the reins on that to be like, no, this is what we need to do. This is how it should be done and save time by doing things like that. There are some just great shots. I mean, what they do with like the visuals and everything like that. So I ended up coming in with a four on this one. And I think a a little bit of it is kind of going back to,
00:52:07
Speaker
Even though I gave like the editing, I, you know, gave the perfect score there. I kind of took a little bit off of this one for that one. Cause I do see what you mean that there are kind of like some hard transitions at times with different things where I think you could kind of smooth it over with this or that, but you know, still gave it a four. So it's not like I'm, you know, docking everything from that though either. All right, John. So.
00:52:37
Speaker
Direction, there were some cool things in there. I thought it was kind of funny, though, at the beginning of the movie, where after Susie shows up and they tell her they turn her away and she has to leave the cab and Pat Hingle is like leaving. Yeah. Like when Susie's in the cab on the way to the hotel or wherever and you see Pat like running through the room, you know, being all whack a job. but Just like, I thought that was kind of fun and it just, I found some humor in that from the beginning of the movie. And then with like, when going back to Daniel, the piano player, like when they, when the cover starts to witchcraft and you get that bird's eye view floating over the square coming for Daniel back and forth, you know, to kind of help build the tension of like, Oh my God, what's going to happen? What's going to happen? You know, we know in my overhead shots.
00:53:26
Speaker
i it's for real like I was thinking like something there was gonna be like some bird attacker or something or some kind of you know thing like that totally threw me off when it ended up being the dog attacking him so like that kind of put me through a spin and I thought that was great for direction I think that worked really well um and then With the end credits, though, with the building just burning and her kind of walking away being like, that
Argento's Directorial Style Analysis
00:53:49
Speaker
was kind of weird. I thought that was kind of weird. I would have liked to see more of that, but it was kind of cool that they had just the image of everything burning as part of the background for the credits as it scrolled. yeah I have a sense of that. But when you're done.
00:54:01
Speaker
so
00:54:04
Speaker
um Although some of the parts though where, you know, like but like with Susie, when she's trying to find the hidden room or with Sarah, when she's panicking and freaking out, going through the halls, like the the atmosphere, they kind of set with the lighting with the red and everything was kind of cool. um And I kind of like how they had the camera kind of running and following with everything. But at the same time, like it just kind of feel like it kind of fumbled and stumbled along through some of those parts a little bit. So it wasn't that great for me.
00:54:33
Speaker
ah Overall, it sat with direction at a three. you know it it It didn't stand out too much. There were some cool things, but it wasn't like horrible. Okay. I'm just going to start with my score and then I'll go into it. I gave this a five. um I love the way Argento directs films. I almost gave it a four because his storytelling as part of the director's job. I don't think it's quite there, but I put that in my story for this one because the rest of this movie, I think the story is a nightmare. I think that's what he's conveying. And I think that's why we burst in the flames and end. Because when your nightmare is over and you wake up, there's no more story. It's just time for you to sit back and reflect on
00:55:24
Speaker
what happened in your dream, what happened in your nightmare. And when Jessica, when Susie kills the witch, she ends the nightmare. Everything collapses. That dreamlike world vanishes, and it's over. That's it. She moves on. we She reflects on what happens, and that's the end. And it's very abrupt. it's you know That's my interpretation, because the first time I was like, that is abrupt. It's a very sharp ending.
00:55:53
Speaker
but When you go back and you watch, she's in the airport, nothing too crazy with colors going on in the airport. Very, you know, there is that nice opening. I think it's pink. You know, we get some color work, but we don't get the crazy color work until we are inside.
00:56:12
Speaker
the dance academy. And then the colors are nuts and I love the colors. And when she goes out during the daytime to meet that professor, very normal, nothing crazy going on.
00:56:27
Speaker
So great work there. And then she goes back to the Academy and it's dreamlike again. It's fantastical. Things don't make sense inside of the Academy. And I think that's entirely the director's choice to have doors that are too tall, walls that go up forever and nothing quite lines up. And that's why I say it's, it's got more in line with me, less with Jialo films and more with haunted house films yeah and dream He stated at one point in an interview that it was supposed to be kind of an acid drip of a film. And it kind of is with all the psychedelic colors. And i I love, I don't normally like dream sequences in movies. And I think that's what I like about this movie is that it's not a dream sequence. It's a story told as if it's a dream. And so that's why it's kind of fantastical and weird. and But on top of it.
00:57:23
Speaker
Yeah, and on top of that, I loved, I almost put this in editing, the scenes where they're talking about something and it's shown on the walls. And you don't, they don't see it, they don't acknowledge it, they never acknowledge the colors. They never acknowledge, so when they're moved into the gym area after the maggots from the ceiling. Oh, I totally forgot to bring that up. Yeah. yeah and And when they're moved in there and they're talking about,
00:57:53
Speaker
you know they hear someone breathing and then we see in the curtains we see the shape of her sleeping on like this altar behind them but they never acknowledge that they don't see that that's for us and it's so good i love that and it happens again in Susie's room. There's another where we see movement behind the walls with the lighting. And again, that's for us. And I love that that he's conveying these things without telling it. You know, we're seeing it. They might be talking about something and he's showing the audience we know. But on top of all of that, nearly every frame of this movie
00:58:39
Speaker
is done, he masterfully understood the golden ratio. If you take the golden ratio from art school, anybody who's ever taken to art classes or art school, and you take that golden ratio and you lay it on top of just about any frame of this film,
00:58:59
Speaker
it works and it's stunning and if it's not the golden ratio it's the rule of thirds so yeah it's fantastic and i love seeing it used so well from it's the golden ratio or the rule of thirds like i said so you can either have suzy centered in the frame and you know nice rule of thirds or you have like shots down the hallway where it's just off-centered and Susie's coming like from back here and it's balanced and it's just I think that's like most people this is why my wife hates watching movies with me I'm like did you see the golden ratio in that shot and she's like
00:59:41
Speaker
No. I'm like, how? It's amazing. How could you not? And that's why most people find this movie so visually stunning, but most people aren't, you know, unless you were really paying attention in our class, you don't know what the golden radio is. So, but I think that's part of what makes this movie so visually effective. The use of primary and secondary colors from the red and blue, green, yellow. Fantastic.
01:00:09
Speaker
Gordon ratio, rule of thirds being used in just about every single shot of the movie. I love that. And those are the things that like, this is more than just a guy putting together a movie. He, this feels like a passion project in the way, this is, ah I hate to do this, in the way some Zack Snyder films are, where they look really good But the story doesn't always come through. And so that's where Zach struggles as a storyteller. I like the way he shoots movies, though. um And I know there are a lot of people who don't, but he's not quite as artistic as Dario Argento was. I like.
01:00:56
Speaker
This is beautiful. i I love the way you directed this film. There are many scenes even when she falls or when we're looking down on the one person leaving when she falls through the glass ceiling. yeah And we're looking at the floor and the floor is interesting. It's not just a tile floor. It's a vibrant black and white tiled piece of art.
01:01:21
Speaker
And it's also shot, you know like it feels like a painting. Many of these scenes feel like they could be a painting, some of them done on acid, some of them just paintings. but i ah So this was the one that I was waiting to get to because I think this movie struggles in other areas.
01:01:39
Speaker
yeah because it's meant to be a visual film. I think it's supposed to be watched. yeah And the story is just there to kind of move it along and get from one visually stunning scene to another. And I i i love it. I even, you know, the razor wire, I also am like, doesn't why is there a pit in the attic filled with razor wire?
01:02:03
Speaker
don't really care i think it looks great it's this weird unsettling like disturbing scene of just feeling trapped yeah it's it is you know i i can argue you know i i get the like why is it there it doesn't really make sense why is the why is the door like three feet off the floor why you know there's a lot of I think that feeds into the dreamlike atmosphere, but man, yeah, so I gushed about the direction, but I'm a five on this.
'Suspiria's' Cultural Significance
01:02:37
Speaker
I love it. And I still think deep red is done better. It's it's a fun thing.
01:02:45
Speaker
I do want to say though, versus the remake, I do like that in this original that like a lot of the interior settings are much more vibrant, yeah and it gives more of like an artsy kind of place where in the remake, it's all dark, desolate, you hardly see anybody. It seems very desolate. But in this in the original,
01:03:03
Speaker
There see it seems more like of a regular normal running place because there's more people running in and out, especially like those main lobby scenes when Susie first shows up, you know, the day after getting in the town, you know, yeah, talking to Adam Blanc and everything. It just seems like every average everyday business and you don't get that looming tone of darkness that you have in the remake.
01:03:23
Speaker
that's That's very true. And I did notice we had policemen in both of them. It's just in this one, they're not getting their dick poked with a little... like want and like little no no guy These are doing their job.
01:03:37
Speaker
yeah
01:03:40
Speaker
I also noticed in more, yeah, but this Dance Academy allowed boys. Yeah. yeah yeah you see you know Yeah. And I did think that was interesting. ah Clearly a choice on the remake ah to be a little bit more feminist in that regard. But I did think it was interesting. I was like, yeah, boys dance. Sure. So it was something because it's like ballet where in the like remake, it's more of like this. Yes.
01:04:10
Speaker
like modern type dancing, which is more ritualistic where this one is definitely more of like, yeah, we're teaching you guys classic ballet type stuff where yeah obviously you'd see more males involved in that, especially because lips and whatnot. So it is kind of interesting that that is even different with both movies. you Classical versus interpretive dance. Right, right.
01:04:30
Speaker
So I did, yeah, and that's my my whole spiel on five for direction. i love I love it. So that's, I will come back to this movie because of how it's directed. Not necessarily the story or the script performances. I will come back because the atmosphere Dario creates in this film is exactly this kind of nightmarish, twisted dream that I will revisit on rainy nights and so on.
01:04:59
Speaker
yeah All right, so reading into our final category out of five, are it factor the cultural significance of the film? So this one, for my score, what I end up doing is I'll i'll get into what the score is afterwards. But for this one, yeah for horror fans, this one is like one of those like pinnacle type movies where so many people, it's one of their favorites, if not their favorite movie of all time. One of the more like iconic movies that we're talking about for Argento.
01:05:30
Speaker
And this one is actually pretty cultural significant for a lot of filmmakers, especially in the genre, just because there's so many people that will like reference like, oh yeah, I did like this color scheme because of Suspiria. I did this because of like the soundtrack for that or like different elements there. So I think this is very cultural significant for like horror fans and for like filmmakers.
01:05:52
Speaker
Only thing I dock it for is I don't know how many people who aren't into the genre might know about it You might like I have a buddy who was a he took a lot of film classes in college So he knew of Argento he knew of this movie He knew of like the animal trilogy But outside of him like if I went to talk to most of my high school friends They would probably would just look at me actually even my friends right now that like I work with or like just have met throughout life. If I asked them if they've ever seen Suspiria, they might be like, I don't know what you just said to me. So i already target for people not knowing who these people are. So I gave away four is what my score was because of just that right there. Yeah.
01:06:33
Speaker
Well, I feel like I'm probably gonna have to change my score. You guys have brought up some good points that I didn't consider before, especially with the significance of being like one of those final Technicolor films. That's kind of a huge deal. yeah um And then, you know, with some of the points that David's made about, you know, the impact with the the horror film industry at that time, and those type of films are being made by you know foreign filmmakers that you know weren't really common in the US s necessarily at the time. um I set myself at a 2, but I feel it could be more appropriate if I change it to a 3.
01:07:09
Speaker
okay no yeah
01:07:13
Speaker
so i'm just working
01:07:17
Speaker
This is another one that doesn't really have good box office information. So I can't really judge based on that. But this is, i same I'm out of three for the exact same reasons David ah is, but I'm out of three. ah Is that in the horror community, this movie is iconic.
01:07:36
Speaker
yeah But if you are not in that if you're not following those podcasts and those youtubers and yeah us We do every kind of movie um If you're not into that you've never heard of this film just like you never heard of the Amazon remake the only reason is You know, I gave the Amazon remake a zero because it's a remake that no one had ever heard of. yeah This one, I have to give it some credit because it is hugely influential to horror filmmakers today. Like you said, i it's one of Argento's
01:08:17
Speaker
an iconic name in the horror community, and this is regarded as his best film. So that automatically takes it up. But also, um I lost my turn. Just the fact that it has a remake.
01:08:30
Speaker
yeah period means this movie has some credibility to it. And, you know, I already said what I said about the direction and how I think it's great and all that. So I gave it a three because if I told my brother about Suspiria, he's not going to know what the heck I'm talking about. You know, he teaches marching band. He's going to hate the music, too. So yeah it's it's not for everyone. This movie is definitely I think this movie is probably less for everyone than the remake is. Yeah.
01:09:01
Speaker
I think the remake is probably a little bit easier for some people to swallow. This one is almost more of a, it's it's a weird art house film in a very different way. And it's just like, it's cool to see two totally different takes on the same story. yes They're very at odds. And I think it's interesting just to see amongst Jonathan and myself, Jonathan preferred the other one.
01:09:31
Speaker
Quite a bit. Based on your score, way more. I prefer this one way more. I have no nice things to say about the remake, and I haven't seen the original after watching the remake. I haven't seen it yet, but I disliked the remake so much, I watched this one immediately.
01:09:51
Speaker
and I enjoyed it much more but it's like I said it's those the rule of thirds and the golden ratio and all those things that I was like yes I love that part of this film so I give it a three because it's it's a niche film yeah and in that niche it's very well known it's iconic and it's You know, yeah, so there's me not finishing that sentence. On to the, how entertained were you overall?
Personal Ratings and Preferences
01:10:32
Speaker
Yeah, for this one, um I mean, I guess I should just preface that this is in my top five favorite movies of all time, regardless of genre. So for me, this one is a- Pick the right best. and For me, yeah.
01:10:48
Speaker
i I honestly, I think that's so interesting because you also really enjoyed the remake. Well, actually something that I was actually going to say and then it completely just slipped my mind is that for me, sometimes it can work if you're doing like a remake where it's a like shot for shot doesn't normally work just because it's so much easier. psycho Yeah, exactly. It's like it's so easy to critique things. We're like, I've actually, my rule of thumb is if you're going to remake something, remake it, do your own take on it. You can have things that like cross over like this one. So many character names are the same. There is, you know, you have the basic story, but you're fleshing it out more. That's what I do.
01:11:29
Speaker
Right. like I caught that watching this one, the counting footsteps. I was like, oh, hey. You can take plot points. You can take story elements. But if you're going to remake it, do something different. And that's what I end up liking about both of these so much is that it's you can look at it and be like, yeah, that's that's the same story. But they focus on such different things that it like I appreciate them both for different reasons because of that. Yeah, I'm glad you you are here to do that ah because Jonathan and I are on opposite ends of both movies. This is honestly probably our most divisive Halloween movie so far. I think we have been fairly well in agreement. I can't remember if we were off level. were were we yeah but were we Have we been off on any of the others?
01:12:20
Speaker
Not really. We've been kind of close on most different we've gone kind of close and then this movie. We're flip-flopped on this one. But yeah, I'm glad you bring up good points. I think you can. I do think these succeed at being two very different versions of the same story. And I give them credit for that. I give ah what's his face that I won't watch his movies. um Credit for making a very different version of Suspiria. So I give him credit for that. But yeah, Jonathan, what was your entertainment? Okay, so don't hate me, bud.
01:12:54
Speaker
um I said we make a four. So you're going to fight. ah So, yeah, I hit it at a six. You know, there was some good notes. I like some good parts of the action with, you know, what's going on is just they didn't have quite the tension and the depth that the remake had. So despite trying to be objective about it, I just feel like that's still a big gap there that I just I can't ignore. So that's where I'm sitting at. I mean, I'm sitting heavy on that six.
01:13:25
Speaker
I think that's fair. i I gave it an eight, and I do think it will grow with rewatches, but this was one. I greatly enjoyed it. However, I do think there are a couple of moments that the story dips. Like Jonathan said, I think the tension is probably... There's something about Giallo movies that I don't find very tense. I'm not on the edge of my seat with them. I'm none more sitting...
01:13:51
Speaker
you which is weird because everything about it should be suspenseful, but it's not. And that's that's for me personally. So I did dock it a little bit. I think after, I think it's after Sarah's death.
01:14:10
Speaker
There's one point in the movie where I think it dips quite a bit and then comes back. It's probably right around the bat, honestly, either but right before it or right after it. But then it comes back at the end and is great. So I gave it an eight. I really enjoyed it. I will watch it again. Hopefully I will own it one day. So just got to convince my wife to increase my allowance.
01:14:30
Speaker
ah Good luck. Yeah, I I'm at an eight on it. Overall scores. So you, um David, you kind of mentioned that this was one of your top five ever. So for you, I actually looks like my combined score is a 42. Well, hot dog. OK, so let me pull that up here. I don't think we did this at the last run and we should have.
01:15:00
Speaker
um I'm gonna pull up, I wanna see our, so 42 for just David, e that puts it in the amazing category. So that'd be four out of five stars.
01:15:12
Speaker
Nice. yeah So very major contrast on my scoring versus the remake. um i'm I'm sitting at a 28. The remake, I was sitting pretty high. I actually scored a 42 for the remake, but now it's like, i'm I'm not trying to drag it through the mud, but yeah, I'm i'm hitting hard on that 28, man. It is cool though. It's a cool film. yeah And then I am sitting at a 37. So Jonathan, your 28 is okay. My 37 is great. And then it looks like David, did David freeze for you? Yeah, he looks a little frozen. I'm still hearing you, but for whatever reason, yeah, my like computer did something weird, but yeah, I can still see you guys and hear you guys. So I'm not sure what's going on with mine right now.
01:16:00
Speaker
We'll wrap this up real quick. All right, so our three scores together is a 36. So three and a half stars. I think we're right about the same as the remake was. No score from your wife? No score from my wife on this one. She fell asleep. That a lot. So, all right, I think we're having some issues with David. So we're gonna go ahead. David, can you, are you able to speak?
01:16:26
Speaker
Yep, I can still hear you guys. I'm not sure why my camera all of a sudden just tanked out on me. That's all right. Why don't you go ahead and say what you want to and farewell and we'll end this.
01:16:40
Speaker
Sounds good. Yeah, like we said kind of earlier in the beginning, David Garrett Jr., I am from Journey with a Cinephile. So if you want to check out that show, it should be wherever you can find podcasts and whatnot. Also wanted to thank both of you guys for inviting me on to you know chat about both of these movies, because it's always a blast to end up watching these for a reason, because you know that makes it easier. where I'm not just like, you know what, I'm going to go ahead and just check this movie out just for the sake of it. So it actually you know makes it a little bit easier.
01:17:09
Speaker
Yeah, we're so glad you could join us. i You'll see, we share some of David's stuff on our social media. So if you're following us, you can find him through that, go check him out. So Jonathan, last words.
Final Thoughts and Listener Engagement
01:17:23
Speaker
um Yeah, check out the average, check it out on YouTube, check out our facebook page Facebook page, check my stuff out, JQTunes on Facebook or just my name, Jonathan Cusick on YouTube. If you want to see some vocal stuff or other bits and pieces, we'll be kind of sharing it everything across all the platforms. So definitely check us out, give us a like, check out these films. Yes. Give us your take on things. We want you to be part of it. So don't be afraid to share your opinions. We've got links for the scorecards. Watch the film. Fill out a
01:18:19
Speaker
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Speaker
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Speaker
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