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S3.E3: Does The Substance Deserve Award Recognition? We Talk with Ivy Tholen!
44 Plays2 months ago
S3.E3: The Substance, The Academy Awards & Body Horror with Ivy Tholen!
The Oscars are recognizing body horror?! The Substance has been making waves this awards season, with nominations at the Academy Awards, Golden Globes, and beyond—but does it live up to the hype? In this episode, we break down Coralie Fargeat’s The Substance, discussing its themes, jaw-dropping practical effects, feminist horror roots, and whether it truly deserves its place among this year’s best films.
Joining us is a regular friend of the show, author Ivy Tholen, known for her slasher hits Tastes Like Candy 1 & 2, Maul Rats, and Mother Dear! Ivy brings her horror expertise to the table as we discuss Demi Moore’s powerhouse performance, Margaret Qualley’s intense transformation, and THAT unforgettable, blood-soaked climax.
Plus, we dig into how The Substance fits into the legacy of body horror films, from Cronenberg to The Fly, and why Hollywood is finally taking notice.
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#TheSubstance #Oscars #DemiMoore #HorrorPodcast #TheAveragePodcast #BodyHorror #IvyTholen #HorrorMovies #AcademyAwards #Podcasting #Zencastr
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Transcript
Introduction to 'The Average' Podcast
00:00:30
Speaker
This is Tim. This is Jonathan. Welcome to The Average, the podcast where we don't just talk about movies, we dig into what makes them unforgettable.
Analyzing Movie Elements
00:00:41
Speaker
From script and acting to direction, music and beyond, we're here to break down the elements that turn a film into an experience.
00:00:48
Speaker
And here's the thing, no two people watch a movie the same way. What hits hard for me might not land for you. And that's what makes discussing so damn interesting. Exactly. And that's why we want you to be part of the conversation. We score every movie using our unique system and we want to hear your take too.
00:01:09
Speaker
We cover everything from brand new releases to deep cuts you may have missed. And yeah, we're not afraid of getting into some of those weird titles that went straight to DVD. What about heads over the big ones? And let's be honest, our opinions don't always line up.
00:01:23
Speaker
But that's the fun of it. We're here to celebrate film, challenge perspectives, and have a blast along
Engaging the Audience
00:01:29
Speaker
the way. Before we jump in, don't forget to like, follow, and subscribe, whether you're watching on YouTube, following us on Instagram, or listening on your favorite podcast platform. Your support keeps these conversations going. And hit that bell icon so you don't miss what's coming next. We've got a killer lineup this season.
Guest Appearance: Ivy Tholen on 'The Substance'
00:01:48
Speaker
Speaking of killers, we've got a very special guest today, a regular friend of the show and one of our favorite horror authors, Ivy Tholen. If you love slashers with a wicked sense of humor, you'll know her from Taste Like Candy 1 and 2, Mall Rats and Mother Deer.
00:02:07
Speaker
Ivy always brings the best insights into horror, and today she's joining us to break down The Substance, a film that's got people talking for all kinds of reasons, body horror, psychological thrills, and some serious social commentary. It's all here. So Ivy, welcome back to The Average.
00:02:26
Speaker
Thank you. I am so glad to be back and I'm so glad to be back discussing this particular movie. I've been screeching about it for months. It has been, it's been a while since you've recorded with us, but it has not been that long since the episode was released. So it's good to have you back. Correct. Yes. So let's talk about the substance.
Exploration of 'The Substance' Film
00:02:49
Speaker
As we said, it has been making waves in the horror world and beyond, written and directed by Coralee Fargate, if I'm saying that right. This 2024 body horror film is as bold as it is brutal, blending social commentary with some of the most grotesque visuals we've seen in years.
00:03:11
Speaker
Yeah, this one hits hard. It falls Elizabeth Sparkle, played by Demi Moore, a once iconic celebrity who's discarded by Hollywood. The second the second she starts aging out of the industry's unrealistic standards. Desperate to reclaim her youth, she turns to an underground drug known as the substance, which literally creates a younger version of herself, played by ah Margaret Qualley. But surprise, surprise, it comes with some horrifying side effects.
00:03:36
Speaker
And when we say horrifying, we mean it. This isn't just a typical be careful what you wish for kind of story. Fargate takes this concept and runs with it, pushing the transformation scenes into full-blown nightmare territory. This film's use of practical effects is insane, and there are grotesque, hyper-realistic prosthetic suits, puppets, and dummies, all designed to make the body horror feel as visceral as possible.
Production and Success of 'The Substance'
00:04:04
Speaker
and it's all drenched in blood. I mean, we're talking like 21,000 liters of fake blood used on set. ah That's like evil dead levels of carnage. I'm so here for it.
00:04:17
Speaker
It's I wanted to look up Kill Bill Volume 1 was also known for insane levels of blood and I'm not even sure it used that much. It's also worth noting that this is an international co-production between France, the UK and the US making it a truly global effort.
00:04:35
Speaker
It took Frage two years to write the screenplay, and you can tell how much thought went into every frame. The film relies on detailed descriptions and minimal dialogue, letting the performances and the horror speak for themselves.
00:04:51
Speaker
And those performances, yes, we will dive into that in this episode. Demi Moore delivers one of the best performances of her career, completely throwing herself into this role.
Demi Moore's Performance and Award Nominations
00:05:00
Speaker
ah She even won the Golden Globe Award for it, and she's up for an Oscar, a BAFTA, a SAG Award. Margaret Qualley is just as incredible, playing the version of Elizabeth that's both me mesmerizing and terrifying as Sue. It is also movie's highest grossing film ever. To be honest, I've never heard of movie before this film.
00:05:21
Speaker
i'm I'm a little bit annoyed that they did not put the digital copy in here, but um I'll get over it. I had heard of them, but I had no clue they made movies. I knew there were some sort of like out there. I had no clue. Yeah, I thought it was kind of like a like the Cannes Film Festival streaming service. Like Cannes doesn't have one, but I thought those type of movies went to movie.
00:05:45
Speaker
Uh, pulling in, it pulled in over 79 million on a budget of 17.5 million. Not bad for a film this wild. And it's not just a box office hit, it's an awards hit. Five Oscar nominations, five Golden Globe nominations, including Best Picture at Both. ah That's huge for a body horror film. And when's the last time we saw a horror film get like this much recognition? like Really? Get out. Yep.
00:06:15
Speaker
I have the list. um I came prepared for that. Good, nice. but i guess Even with Get Out, is that pushing 10 years? Yes. So it's been a while, but it makes sense.
Societal Commentary and Themes in 'The Substance'
00:06:29
Speaker
This film has something to say. It's a direct response to a lot of things going on that I'm sure we're going to talk about. And Fargate takes that societal horror and makes it quite literal in this.
00:06:45
Speaker
It's also just damn good filmmaking. ah The direction, the editing, the sound design, everything that's working together to create this overwhelming suffocating experience. It's a body horror film. So it's it's also a psychological horror, social satire, and at times a straight up nightmare.
00:07:01
Speaker
So the substance isn't just another horror film. It's something pretty big. It's pushing boundaries, making people uncomfortable, and it's got everyone talking. So let's start talking about it with our story category.
00:07:16
Speaker
Before we start recording, ah we discussed the order for going well, keep it semi conversational. But Jonathan is going to start it off because once I start with this movie, I'm afraid I won't be able to stop. So he's going to kick us off. Yeah, you know, actually, I forgot to pull up my scorecard, too. So give me a second. I feel prepared. Wait, did I fill one out? I swear I did, didn't I?
00:07:47
Speaker
Um, I can check. Ooh, I think I may have forgotten to in all of my excitement. Uh, just fill it out as we talk. Okay. yeah Honestly, it I've never done that before. I can't believe I forgot to do that. That's what I did with, uh, Matt or not Matt, Aaron. do
00:08:09
Speaker
Just call me Fumbles. Where's my damn thing? Eclipse.
00:08:28
Speaker
Okay, there we go. Yay, I did it. Yeah, and I don't have one from you either. No, I already know because I ever i gave it, spoiler alert, I gave it everything. I had five. oh Okay, so so we're all good on our total. You can be part of an average or something or do I need to do that?
00:08:49
Speaker
like No, if I know that it's perfect, I can still add that into the average. Okay. So I'll just trim this whole conversation between us. But perfect we did get a random, I don't know who this person is submitted a score. So thirty x is it? Okay. Yep. Down at the LeBlanc Honda down in Louisiana. Sweet. Yeah, I got that. Okay. Jonathan, are you ready? Yep. Go for it.
00:09:17
Speaker
Okay, so let's jump right into it with ah the story. um How unique, compelling, and original is the story you watched. um Man, ah yeah this story was hugely impactful. There was so much to really take in with all the things that we already mentioned with the different aspects of you know women being body horror, the psychological, you know the nightmarish aspects of some of this stuff, and like confronting another side of yourself that is supposedly better than you,
00:09:47
Speaker
but ends up like almost kind of squeezing you out. It's it's crazy, man. And it's it's very, very, very scary to think about how like there's a duality to each of us and how we would and how that affects us as who we are. you know So yeah, I don't want to say too much because I know you guys got your opinions as well. But but as far as story goes, man, I'm like sitting high on the five on that one.
00:10:13
Speaker
there's there ah There's such an intense film. even So good.
00:10:21
Speaker
All right. All you, Ivy. Okay, i i it's a five out of five for me as well. um I think probably the best thing that I could say about this is I watched this with a friend who does not like horror and does not like weird movies. And I knew going in, and she's one of those people that asks a lot of questions, and I knew going in, she was gonna have a lot of questions if I didn't stop her. So what I told her, and this is kind of how I feel about the story in general, it is not,
00:10:48
Speaker
We're not here to go about, the like delve into the psychological reasons why someone would take the substance. This is a fairy tale. This is a dream. it's it's There's not a lot of logic that makes sense with our present world. You just have to go with it. when when She gets the card for the substance. It's not a question of whether or not she's going to do it. She does it because it's what she's going to do. That's what this movie is. And I love that. I'm so sick of movies where we sit and listen to the main character stew for 45 minutes over whether or not they're going to give us what we've been promised. And this one delivers it immediately. This thing hits the ground running. It is fan tastic. I
00:11:33
Speaker
I think it's super important you brought that up. So I've seen, I read a review on, it made me so mad, on Amazon for it, of somebody gave it a
Personal Reflections on Aging Themes
00:11:43
Speaker
one-star review and they said, is this Looney Tunes? Like, am I watching a cartoon? And that's the thing. It has that, like you said, it's a fairy tale. It has this cartoonish element to it. It does. win Because everything is over the top.
00:12:03
Speaker
And everything is over top. And that's intentional. So to call that to its detriment, I can understand somebody not liking it, but saying it it is bad because of that. I don't get that. um But that's, we touched on the substance, we touched on those, the old you and the young you. What really stood out, there's that whole, you see a lot of people talking about the pressure that Hollywood or the industry puts on women, especially this movie, especially as they're aging out.
00:12:40
Speaker
ah Dennis Quaid straight up says it in the beginning of the film on the phone, you know, and to her face, basically, once you hit 50, it's over. And she's like, what's over? And he just ignores the question. ah ya Dennis is hamming it up in this movie. He's just having a great time. But There's that, but there's also just this message about growing older, which I'm pretty sure I've said it on this show before. But when people ask, what is your biggest fear? My answer is growing older. And as ridiculous as it like, it happens to everybody. There's no escaping it. I think that's part of what makes it so terrifying. But also I've watched
00:13:33
Speaker
people I love, you know, revert to diapers and being unable to take care of themselves. And it's, there's a so sadness. And to me, it scares me. So this movie challenges me on that because we're seeing Demi Moore who is not really that old.
00:14:01
Speaker
Okay, she's not that old and they're saying she's obsolete. And so we're seeing her battle with that feeling of being obsolete and turning to that younger self and throughout the movie, that younger self takes from her, the older self. And I think there's something deeper in there, at least for me, about the more I look back on younger me,
00:14:29
Speaker
The more I hurt me now, you know, that's that hits me. That resonates with me. There's the killer scene that actually made me emotional the first time I watched it in the diner where Demi has already been through the substance. The I believe it's the first time that she started to get physical ah damage from Sue.
00:14:55
Speaker
Yeah, the finger. yeah Her finger, Sue overusing and staying longer than necessary. But she goes to that diner and she sees this old man, which is spoiler alert. There's going to be spoilers because I got to talk about the ending.
00:15:09
Speaker
um
00:15:12
Speaker
Sees the older man who caught her on the substance. And it got me emotional. I'm probably going to get emotional just saying it. But she freaks out and he says, you are still worthy of love.
00:15:25
Speaker
And I'm like, damn. Because that is that is not just like, hey, this aging starlet is worthy of love. No, it's this person who feels like they are growing so old they no longer matter is still worthy of love. And that message to me is so good. And I don't think this movie flops on the delivery of that. I don't, it's subtle. I mean, the line I just said is there, but there's no like preachy moment in this film. You are supposed to watch it and soak it up. And the ending is one of the things I've heard so many people complain about.
00:16:13
Speaker
A lot of people think this movie should end 20 minutes before it does. And honestly, the first time I saw this, I thought it was going to. Because when Yung Soo beats the crap out of ah Elizabeth,
00:16:28
Speaker
That scene hurts. That is hard to watch. When she beats the crap out of her, I was like, okay, this is how the movie ends. No, we're gonna take it the next step. And this is where I get more of that societal pressure because Dennis Quaid, as he's sitting there in his chair and she comes out on stage, says, she is my creation.
00:16:56
Speaker
basically he pushed her to do this. And I'm pretty producer sure most people at least know of botched or have seen botched. And that's what I think of in this moment of when people are taking these surgeries to try to preserve their youth. And we've all seen people who just take it too far and keep going and keep going and keep going. And that's what happens in the end of this movie.
00:17:24
Speaker
She keeps going. She takes it too far. She's not content. And I think it is profound for her to stand at the end as the monster, the movie literally calls her Monstro, Eliza Sue, ah stands there before the people who pressured her to keep going. And then she literally covers them in her blood. This is on them.
00:17:54
Speaker
to a degree. i It's so good. So I also just love that Fargay went nuts with that and went all out, did not hold back. And I love that. So I told you, I have a lot to say about this movie, ah but but that's that's it. The aging impact. So I see a lot of people talk about the Hollywood pressure on women.
00:18:23
Speaker
societal pressure on women. But I think this movie can resonate with more than just women. So for me, it was about the growing old and trying to tell myself that, you know what? I might be a little bit heavier than I was at 25. But I'm still worth investing my own time into. So that's what I get from this movie.
Body Horror and Societal Expectations
00:18:45
Speaker
And I haven't had a horror movie make me think or feel quite like that.
00:18:52
Speaker
in a very, very long time. Which is funny because we've been coming off of elevated horror. That's me being sarcastic. We've had this entire like thing of elevated horror. I have a lot of feelings about that term.
00:19:10
Speaker
um and pretentious sorry I agree. It is pretentious. I agree. yeah It is the first time in a long time that you just feel stuff. yeah And you're not wrong about the aging thing because um my mom is very so very close in age to Jimmy Moore. and She had a similar like look because anybody who knows what Demi looked like in the 70s, 80s, for a long time, bone thin, super long hair, parted down the middle, that kind of aesthetic. So my mom now, her body looks a lot like Demi's in this movie. And except my mother has rheumatoid arthritis.
00:19:48
Speaker
So all of her joints are very swollen. Her fingers kind of twist to the side. um She has it really bad in her feet where she's like, it looks like she's missing toes because they've just kind of overlapped. It's horrible.
00:20:00
Speaker
And I know how that makes her feel. And it was like watching it play out on screen. It was like watching what my mom has gone through playing out on screen with Demi as she's got these tears. You see what Demi Moore's hands look like, and if they're the same age, like my mom's hands look a lot like Elizabeth's after they start going.
00:20:22
Speaker
and There's so much in this movie that are things that I see every single day. I have experienced multiple times, I have never seen them put to film, and it never even occurred to me that they were worth something, but seeing them on film, I'm like, oh my God, this is horrifying. yeah like All of these things. That lipstick scene in the mirror,
00:20:48
Speaker
I wear black liquid eyeliner. I wear black winged liquid eyeliner. I have done that. I have done that, taking it off, putting it back on. This isn't right. Oh my God. And then I've refused to leave the house afterwards. I have done that. I have clawed at my own stupid face. So it's like seeing things that are that are in normal every day, like, oh, this is how it's going to be. I'm going to refuse to leave the house because of eyeliner. It's it's totally like, quote unquote, normal.
00:21:17
Speaker
but it's real freaking horrifying to see it on screen. here it's You mentioned that scene. I also love that scene because that that comes directly after the you are worthy of love. And she goes home and she goes through her old stuff that Sue has hidden away. And she finds the phone number from a guy who is the hero of this movie. He has like two lines.
00:21:47
Speaker
But at the beginning, when she is walking out of the hospital, like not made up, she is coming out of the hospital. He comes out and he goes, you're still the most beautiful ah is it woman girl. You're still the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. And then to have that juxtaposed with her looking in the mirror, not feeling good enough.
00:22:12
Speaker
is just this moment of tragedy that is so relatable because guys, we can pretend we don't care, but you're going out on a first date. You want things to You want to look good. You want to make sure you're wearing the right outfit. You put thought into it. You might not smear your makeup in the mirror, but you might change your shirt four or five, six times so we can relate even if it's a little bit different. But yeah, like you said, I felt that. I've never seen it like that before. And we've seen body horror before. We we talked about the fly on Halloween. We talked about Wolfman two weeks ago.
00:22:56
Speaker
Every one of them brings something different to its interpretation, but it's all about, really it's all about losing their humanity. And this is a movie that I didn't think it was about that. I thought it was telling, like, I don't know how to explain. It is about losing yourself.
00:23:22
Speaker
worth losing your self worth more than anything. And ultimately everybody turns into a monster at the end of body horror. But this one is like Wolfman was about watching somebody who was sick and them losing themselves to an illness. That's not what this is. This one is basically telling you or showing you to still love yourself.
00:23:53
Speaker
And I'm not sure I've seen a body horror movie do that because even the fly is about obsession, you know, losing yourself to obsession. This one is about embracing the process, embracing life as it is and not wishing for the past because or perfection.
00:24:16
Speaker
All of the horror in this is also something that Elizabeth inflicts upon herself. young Something like a, where I have not seen Wolfman, so I don't know what the lore is there. But you know in wolf in a werewolf movie, that's something that has been done to you and it's out of your control and you're just gonna turn. This is something she willingly puts it if it's a needle in her leg. She willingly does it over and over again. she She makes these choices and at some point she's told you can stop if you want.
00:24:46
Speaker
And then she chooses to keep going because she just can't not at that point. And there is another movie out right now. It just hit shutter. It is called Grafted. It was both about this one yeah it was made at the same time as the substance, but it also features a girl. It's a girl in that one. it This is kind of like substance junior. It features a girl who injects herself with pink stuff and then things happen.
00:25:13
Speaker
So this is a thing that we're going to start seeing. and That one, much like this one, it's something she did to herself. It is a choice that she made so that she could better fit in with society. Because society wants Sue. That's what we're told. This is what you need to be. And interestingly enough, Margaret Qualley is wearing a lot of prosthetics, and I'm not just talking about Monstory Lisa Sue. She was wearing take boobs. um I've heard both things about her butt being real and not real, but she has said, not even I look like I look in that movie. So, not so yeah. like
00:25:55
Speaker
yeah you i You brought it up, so I'm safe to talk about it. But I was gonna say, I read an interview or I watched an interview with her where she talked about being nervous that she would not get the part because she's so small.
00:26:11
Speaker
Like she is such a petite figure that she was nervous she would not get the part. So she is wearing like, she's not really naked. She's fully covered even though she's naked on screen. But yeah, that I think that was, I mean, I'm glad she got the part. I think she's fantastic. But like you said, it's all about those ah perceptions and standards and what we think things should be or are told things should be. Yeah, well, he also got that that sense of it. She also has that desperate obsession.
00:26:51
Speaker
to still seem relevant, you know aside from being loved, just to be relevant and to still be in the spotlight and to be the one with the focus, you know aside from just the body aspect of
Character Analysis: Elizabeth Sparkle
00:27:01
Speaker
it. you know so's it's it's you Between the the imagery and the presentation and the mentality of it, it gets really twisted, man.
00:27:08
Speaker
yeah well So we kind of we already gave our story in plot and we've kind of blended into character. So I mean, just keep talking about Elizabeth and she's she's the only character in this film, really.
00:27:25
Speaker
It's just about- There's not much other really cast to focus on aside from you know the the the old man at the diner who turned out to be the young male nurse, you know as you can tell from the birthmark he had on the wrist. you know And you know you always wondered like, who's that other person? Who's that other guy with the other deposit box? you know Then you find out it's him. It's like, ah, yeah which threw me off.
00:27:48
Speaker
It threw me off, too, because I was thinking that Fred, and the guy outside the hospital, was the guy from across the hallway, Oliver, on the substance. That's what I thought until till we got to that cafe scene and the old man and I'm like, oh, shit, OK, I was wrong, but whatever, whatever, you know, but it just seemed like a safe assumption at that time.
00:28:12
Speaker
um But aside from that like that, and then Dennis Quaid as is Harry or Harvey. Yeah, Harvey, I think it is. Harvey. yeah As the producer, man, that guy did a great job portraying a fucking jackass. he Just a piece of shit, producer, jackass, Hollywood piece of shit you know that we would come to expect from something like you know Epstein and then what's that other guy?
00:28:37
Speaker
He reminds me of Harvey Weinstein. Harvey Weinstein, that's it. That's what I was thinking. and yeah He reminds me like that kind of guy. And it's like, oh, I would have loved to have seen him get his just desserts at the end for being such a prick. He's like even at that part where he's talking with Sue and he tells his assistant Isabel to to change her name. And it's Cindy now. And all the boys like, dude, what the fuck are you to tell her to change her name? Like the guy was such a jag bag. Oh, my God.
00:29:04
Speaker
It makes sense that he doesn't get his just desserts though, because it takes a lot for people like that to get their just dessert. How long before anybody caught harvey or did anything with Harvey Weinstein. Yeah. Decades. Decades. So it's really true to life that he would just walk away from this and find a new girl. jenniper Yeah.
00:29:23
Speaker
Yeah, so i mean it's it's an interesting set of like small side characters that you get in that regard. And like you never find out anybody about that voice on the other side of the phone calls for the substance. you know there's There's no info otherwise ah about it. There's just the voice on the phone for the contact. No other backstory or details on where the substance comes from, the other stuff. So it's like, I wish I knew more about that person on the other end of the phone.
00:29:49
Speaker
I don't. This is I want to see them involved and see them get messed up. You know, I don't I'm actually I'm with Ivy on that one. I love the ambiguity. But it also brings up at the beginning of the third act into the second act after when i Elizabeth has killed her younger half.
00:30:13
Speaker
We hear that voice speak to her, no phone, nothing. And that leans into that fairy tale nature of this. And you start to wonder, like, is this her conscience?
00:30:29
Speaker
There's a psychosis like from the drug and the overuse and expenditure. It's just one of those things that it's like it's out there and I love that we don't exactly know where this all-powerful substance is coming from. Also, the graphic design on the substance, I'm obsessed with. Yes.
00:30:51
Speaker
I'm obsessed with it. It's so good. I love. Yes. That's part of part of this movie. um We'll get to it with directing later. But the font is its own custom font made for the movie. It's my husband. My husband is also a designer and was looking for it and trying to figure out where it came from because it is so good. It's just so pleasing to the eye. ah And when it's on that green little bottle.
00:31:17
Speaker
but My biggest disappointment, my biggest disappointment is actually this because I think this is lame. Yeah. Compared to some of the if I pull out the. This is inside. That would have been way better. This is better. Yeah, I'm sorry. That's an opportunity. Jeez. But that's that's my that's my two cents anyways.
00:31:48
Speaker
But yeah, but, you know, aside from that, yeah, you're right. You know, Demi Moore and ah Margaret, they're, they're the main characters, even though they're one person, you know, that whole recurring thing that there is no, she, no, her, you, that you're, you're, you're one. That's you. That's just, yeah. And trying to maintain that idea.
00:32:07
Speaker
it's It's crazy. And so you definitely got to think about the mental aspect of that psychosis that seems like sets in when she's hearing that voice outside of anything else. And it's just like, holy shit, and she messed herself up.
00:32:20
Speaker
the But just to see how it progresses from her finding out and then panicking everything, just how it dives and just tailspins to crash and burn so hard at the end. That is just one of the most incredible things. and But so freaking scary to think about how, you know, someone might be experiencing that to some degree somewhere. It's five, dude. Like, holy cow.
00:32:46
Speaker
I agree. It's a five for me. um The characters are all real. not just i mean we we not just ah Not just to as character, not just Margaret's character. Dennis Quaid, that's a real character. We know who that person is. The neighbor, we know who that guy is. I know who that guy is. I used to work in a very customer facing job and I had people that what I would see on a regular basis and I have absolutely have multiple men, usually in the 40 to 50 to 60 range.
00:33:18
Speaker
Um, who, if I was fully made up and I had ah my hair blown out and everything like that, they were so nice to me. If I was running late for work and my hair was in a bun, they didn't even see me. So like, I've seen it, like I've experienced it. That is a real person. The dude that she hooks up with is a, is like a real type of guy. Like I, like we've seen all of this. It's just, they don't feel, everybody feels Like a real person, nobody feels super two-dimensional, even though there's not a lot of dialogue, and some of them aren't on screen for very long. Yeah. You brought up the guy that she hooks up with, and one of the- Jack Magbiker. Yeah, Jack Magbiker. It's actually in the credits, that's what Jack Magbiker. One of the scenes I actually love that's very subtle,
00:34:09
Speaker
in it is after he hooks up with her, you know, she turns back into Elizabeth and he comes back to get his helmet. And the way he treats Elizabeth versus the way he treated Sue is so telling. And I think it's so good. And it's just a short little scene, but it is so good. ah One of my favorite characters and not because he's a good dude, but because I laughed pretty hard. Is the neighbor across the hallway? I think he's hilarious. Because ah mainly when Elizabeth has like, I don't know if it's the third or fourth transformation. We're not quite. Yeah, when she's haggy dressed up like an old lady.
00:34:58
Speaker
ah And she bursts through the door and he's like, hey, Sue. And she goes, shut the fuck up. And he falls back into the door. I laugh out loud every time. I thought that part was so funny.
00:35:16
Speaker
ah I love that scene. But yeah, we kind of already discussed it. There is no happy ending. to this movie. And so there's not a character, there is a character arc, but it's not a happy one. ah We also, I love the storytelling from the opening scene to the final scene, where we see Elizabeth Sparkle get her Hollywood star.
00:35:48
Speaker
And this is, I mean, this goes right under the direction category as well. If you're watching that scene closely, you can see the progression of time in the clothes the people walking across it wear. It's genius. So you see the progression of time as well as a bunch of other things that obviously pass the time. But we see that kind of rise, her big moment. And then we just see that fall to where she goes back into the star. And it's just kind of that moment that like, that's what she's going to be remembered for. Not anything that happened after. And it's such, it's actually a great character journey. Like we said, it's one that we're supposed to internalize and think about, not one that we cheer for and root for on the screen.
00:36:45
Speaker
ah It's a five. I think it's beautiful. i We've covered much of that character already. um I also just love, I love the disgust that
00:37:02
Speaker
Sue has for her older self. It all just played so well. I and love this story movie. ah The way she's just disgusted with her older self and we watch her older self give up more and more from the just, it starts with that little divot in the chair cushion. And then it turns out to just eating everything in sight at that chair. So then it just turns out to full on mental breakdown in the kitchen.
00:37:29
Speaker
I love that part. All things are done. So get it. There's are a little bit of a mother daughter type of thing because I don't know a single daughter who hasn't looked at her mother and been like, absolutely that's ah no, what is wrong with you? Why do you look like that? Why are you doing that? And I know plenty of moms who look at their daughters and they're like, well, when I was your age, I never would have worn that. I never would have done that.
00:37:58
Speaker
My own mom said she couldn't wait to see whether my hair turned white or gray when I got older. yeah do but but it would be like bitch i just my yeah
00:38:13
Speaker
But like she wasn't like being intentional but like mom say shit like that to their daughters.
Relationships and Dynamics in the Film
00:38:18
Speaker
It just just it's universal um Like I don't know a single like even friends with good moms their mom like my mom is not a terrible person What shit like that to me so we I can see that playing out a little bit especially after ah Margaret's character starts to get sick of her um with the the divot in the chair and and all of that. it It really feels like a mother-daughter like just sticking a knife in one another type thing to me. That is a new perspective that I hadn't thought about on it. and either yeah There's a lot of forced motherhood type storylines going on. This one isn't super heavy on it, but I definitely saw it here as well. Yeah. So that moves us.
00:39:01
Speaker
We were fives across the board on character as well. So that moves us to the music and sound design. Hot damn. but Dude, there's the music in this as well as the sound design, both very impactful. ah Just that reoccurring techno theme.
00:39:21
Speaker
through those heightened moments of the film of Sue doing her thing, as well as parts of like the commercial part of the substance. Man, they the the way that it's usually something like that in a movie when you hear it so many times, it becomes annoying, but not in
Impact of Music and Sound Design
00:39:36
Speaker
this film. It is it does not disturb me at all like it would in other films. It did it just the right amount.
00:39:42
Speaker
Just, you know, long enough time, it just the right moments kick so much ass in that way. But one of my favorite parts, though, was was the music at the end when Elia Monstro Eliza sues on stage and the whole blood fest.
00:39:58
Speaker
like the The whole rock metal aspect of that was so hard and so well placed and just made me so happy. It made me think like metal, like the cartoon metalocalypse. Yeah. Just super, super crazy blood, gore guts, craziness, but just heavy metal and just so awesome and a good blend. But then it also makes me think so much of guar as well. So I'm just like two of my favorite things together in one scene. Oh, my God. I don't know what it is. Super guar.
00:40:27
Speaker
You are because they you know, they go through so much blood and the theatrics and everything and their own aspect of showbiz and how they slaughter like I like effigies of like famous people in media, you know, you just it it totally made me think of that war metal eclipse. I'm like, this is amazing. You will be disappointed to know because I also love that song during that scene. It's not on the soundtrack.
00:40:52
Speaker
bullshit um ah la yeah it is not on the soundtrack i unless i missed it because i just kind of went to the end to try to find hey this happens like there are two songs at the end called blood and more blood So I just listened to like the four in that area, and I did not hear that song. So I was very disappointed by that. Boo. That's not cool. That's They should fix that. dumb. But that part of it was great. And I'm just going to leave it at that. And I'm just going to say they did such a fantastic job with this. I'm sitting on a five on this as well. Ivy, what do you got to say?
00:41:33
Speaker
um It's a five for me. ah The only thing I really want to throw in is that is that I saw this in theaters and it is fantastic. I bet it sounded so good in the theater. It is so good in theaters. You feel it. It's like inside of your body whenever you watch it in the theater with all of the surround sound and everything. It is fantastic. Hell yeah. If for some reason when someone hears this, it is in theaters because I know it got a re-release. Go see it in theaters. It is fantastic.
00:41:58
Speaker
So I just watched it here at home, like with my little surround sound system that I would have much preferred to have heard it in the theater if I could have. That would have been so much more awesome. It may have already finished. like there was a There was a brief where it was back in theaters after it started picking up award steam, yeah. Yeah. Well, that's- It wasn't a wide release though. Oh, I was going to bring it up later because even its initial release was not very wide. No.
00:42:28
Speaker
And that's to kind of to its detriment. like we had It was in theaters for two weekends near us. We saw it the second weekend.
00:42:40
Speaker
it was out because I had already heard that like the showings were closing. So I got out. Yes. You, you told me it was worth it. And I was like, all right, I'm going because he had been on my, the trailers for it were fantastic. So it had been on my ah watch list, but it was one of those that I wasn't sure. I saw Corley's previous movie, revenge on shutter.
00:43:11
Speaker
And it was a good movie, it didn't strike me quite as much as this one. But yeah, anyways.
00:43:19
Speaker
Ivy, were you done with your music and sound design? Okay. So the score is by Rafferty, who I've never heard of. But it's really, honestly, it's not a horror movie score.
00:43:35
Speaker
It honestly reminds me of something that would be in like a techno thriller.
00:43:44
Speaker
Yeah. like I was trying to think of the movie Nerve. ah gary it just I think it would be in a movie called Nerve. but like that's just It doesn't sound like a horror movie. But on top of that, the substance itself has a theme that Jonathan mentioned that is what I look for.
00:44:05
Speaker
in movies, like if I'm going to give it a five and you just have a theme that I would recognize outside. And if I hear that siren followed by the theme, I'm going to know this was from the substance. Like it is very recognizable. So that's great. I've had pump it up stuck in my head for two days. Nice. I love it. I hate it right now.
00:44:34
Speaker
Yeah, Pump It Up, written by Michael Hall, Leonardo Stella, performed by Earl Gregory, produced by Julian De Guiness. So this is... Well, it looks like Rafferty is a DJ, more than anything, which makes absolute sense. So what I don't understand is I was reading that this is a cover by DJ Indoor of that original song.
00:44:55
Speaker
So I don't know the original. I genuinely thought it was made up for Sue's show, which is called Pump It Up. So, but that's been stuck in my head for two days. I hate that about it. um cause I'll just like in the kitchen, got to pump it up. over but I hate it.
00:45:19
Speaker
ah But on top of that, so the music is already a five. This category also is sound design. And this is the first time I'm going to mention something that goes in with special effects. Well, we kind of said it at the beginning, I guess, but into the direction is that everything in this movie is over the top.
00:45:38
Speaker
yeah Coralee turned it up to 10 and then said, does that knob go further? And kept going because the sound design is just as visceral as what you are seeing on screen. And I just love that it embraces that. It's not that goes also into the fairy tale aspect of it. Like, would that actually sound like that? No.
00:46:07
Speaker
It doesn't matter. We cranked it up to 15. We cranked it up to 20. It sounds way worse than it actually would in real life. Like it's just grosser when Dennis Quaid is eating shrimp.
00:46:20
Speaker
but and we're getting the super close-ups of this all goes in the direction. He's like wiggling it and shit, and you hear the wiggling of the shrimp in his hand. Hear it, and it's so and he snaps that head off, and it's just so far louder. um One of my favorite sound design elements in this film, as I mentioned when he is on the call talking about how Elizabeth is too old, worthless, whatever, he is peeing.
00:46:51
Speaker
And we hear him peeing. And he's peeing with what sounds like prostate issues, which you get when you are older.
00:47:05
Speaker
So that, I just thought the irony of like that is an intentional sound design because I know Dennis Quaid didn't just walk up to a urinal while they were filming and pee. That's added later, but they added a typical thing that a lot of men go through as they get older as he is verbally talking about how worthless this older woman is. I love it. It just goes more to him being that awful person, but it's also like saying, hey, he's up there too. So
00:47:47
Speaker
Yeah, which means he should know better. He's he iss actually eight years older than Demi Moore. Yeah, but the industry has a different standard for a guy like him. And it's like they they force that into your face. Like, hey look at the change in the standard here. oh How shitty is that, you know? That's what I think is so brilliant behind just that little sound tells that story. They added that they didn't need to do that. But because of that, we can sit here and say,
00:48:16
Speaker
those elements are in the film. We can have that discussion about that comparison of the different standards for the men and the women and him being just a dirty rotten hoe bag. That's in there because of this little scene where we hear some prostate issues. It's in there for other scenes too. But like I love just that little moment of adding that to the sound design.
00:48:44
Speaker
Also, all the squelching and the sucking and the well it's so good. I love it. It's a five. The needle in the spine. You know, just any insertion of that needle in the spine is. Yeah. Oh, one of the worst ones is when she is pulling her teeth out. Oh, yeah, I think teeth is always terrible.
00:49:09
Speaker
It's always terrible, and the sound is so loud, and just the blood gushing out of it all around, I was getting queasy. ah No, no, it's fantastic. It's so good. Well, read that into the editing and special effects of it. Yeah, boy, howdy. Man, usually I don't talk about editing much. That's usually not a big topic for me, but in this film, holy shit,
00:49:36
Speaker
did Man, wow, it's they there's so much intent in the way they edit it in a lot of these shots. Like, oh my God, all this, just the really good close ups, the back and forth transitions between like, you're saying like with Dennis Quaid was eating the shrimp, you you see the bull, you see close up to his face, you know, you see him eating, you see him waving the thing, close up of her, back and forth, back and forth, the the fly and the glass of wine, just everything, man.
00:50:02
Speaker
Jeez, it just fantastic,
Editing and Directorial Praise
00:50:04
Speaker
man. In like the long shots of the hallway where she comes like from the first, yeah from the taping before she finds out she's going to be getting replaced. Just a shot of that hallway back and forth as people are telling her happy birthday. And you've seen all the different posters and like just this is era of Elizabeth Sparkle that you see unfolding with transition back forth and finally getting that long shot. I mean, like, wow, you know, she has been there a long time, you know.
00:50:31
Speaker
They did such a great job with the the editing in these shots. It was fantastic. and like Even when it's like Elizabeth and Sue battling each other in the in in the penthouse, you know one chasing after the other and her running down the hall and the transition back, when you're seeing like a li like when you're seeing Sue chasing after her in rage, dude, it's so crazy.
00:50:52
Speaker
like it this um I just got to shut up now. no it does As far as editing goes, yes, that's that's how I feel about that. So just really deep, heavy impacting shots with special effects. Of course, those are fantastic. you know I mean, you know I'm going to talk about the blood, like I mentioned earlier, 21,000 liters heavy blood. like That is so much and it makes me think in contrast to, once again, guar, how much blood that they go through and all their prosthetic work that they do. I wonder if it's even comparable to what we kind of see in that scene. Maybe maybe not so much because then you see a monster, li Eliza Sue, going like through the hallway and spraying blood through that too. There was a lot of blood for for just that small.
00:51:37
Speaker
Twisted Mutant Frame going on there. It was incredible for special effects. And I was just like, yeah, I wish I was at a guar show right now, you know, or like a metal oculips concert just to see some crazy insane blood and gore. God, it was fantastic, dude. oh you' lucky you okay Yeah. OK. Yeah.
00:51:56
Speaker
but you but I mentioned earlier that Kill Bill, I remember when Kill Bill was released, people were talking about the amount of blood used in Kill Bill, Volume 1's climactic fight scene. So if you haven't seen Kill Bill, it's fantastic. all I love all Quentin Tarantino movies. Just about. The Crazy 99, she thought. Yes, The Crazy 99. So in that fight scene, if you're wondering what the difference in blood looks like,
00:52:25
Speaker
There were 450 liquid gallons of fake blood used in the Kill Bill final fight. That is one thousand seven hundred and three liters. So this went above and beyond that. This movie was 21000. Yeah. So it's a blood soaked finale. And I loved it. How about you, Abby? What'd you think?
00:52:55
Speaker
It's a blood-soaked finale that got nominated for an Oscar. Many Oscars, actually. um ah we always love We always love practical effects. They got a whole lot of them in this thing. I havet i have the movie running in the background right now and they're at the scene where ah Sue is...
00:53:13
Speaker
taking all the extra ah stuff out of ah Elizabeth's back. And it's got the infected sore on her back. It's disgusting. It's a little freaking real. It's disgusting. But as with the editing, this is not one of those movies where everything is quiet and seamless and you don't even, you notice the editing. They want you to notice the editing. It's a lot of fast. It's a lot of hard. The whole movie is loud. It's not just the sound.
00:53:43
Speaker
The editing is loud. You're seeing it. It's here. it's It never stops moving. it's Yeah. it's just It's part of it. it's just that Every single piece clicks into place, and that's just another one of the pieces. um And it is nominated for makeup and hair effects.
00:54:05
Speaker
If it does not win, I will be stunned. And I know if if any fans of Wicked hear this, I mean, come on, they painted someone green. Yeah, I saw Wicked. I saw it twice. Like, I did not dislike Wicked. No. But i they painted someone green and then they didn't call CG.
00:54:23
Speaker
I will go on record. I will go on record saying I enjoyed Wicked. I cried a lot of things, especially in music. And so that's why I don't watch a lot of musicals because I usually cry. So this one that it did it for me. But I'm still even when it comes to. ah Why can't I think of best actress award? I'm sorry. To me more.
00:54:52
Speaker
delivered on multiple levels in this film. It is laughable, laughable that the lead actress from Amelia Perez is nominated against Ami Moore. I haven't seen all of the movies. I have seen Amelia Perez. Amelia Perez is not a good movie in any way, shape, or form. I haven't seen anybody. It's a good movie, I think. I believe She was just removed from the running because of some... She's not removed from the running. She's removed from the campaign. So Netflix is no longer pushing her because she's going to cost Zoe Saldana an Oscar with running her mouth.
00:55:36
Speaker
Yeah, so because they they're taking her off of the tour. She is still nominated. But gotcha. It is insulting that she's nominated against any of these other actresses. um I've heard amazing things about all of them. I think Cynthia will probably get her award after part two. So I don't I don't I don't think she needs to necessarily be part of the conversation right now. This means like No one else could have played this role except in me more. she does so Name someone. Think of an actress. I went through actresses over the eight over a certain age and I couldn't come up with hardly anybody. What other ones did you come up with? um I think Sharon Stone might have been another one.
00:56:16
Speaker
oh um It would have to be somebody who was known for being beautiful above all else when she was acting because Demi Moore, for people who were not around in the 90s or didn't really pay attention to those kinds of things, Demi Moore was known for being stunningly beautiful and doing very out there things involving her beauty. She made G.I. Jane where she shaved her head and got buff. She- That was our core movie.
00:56:40
Speaker
Yeah, she posed naked on the cover of a magazine while she was pregnant and that was not a thing that happened at that point. that was You didn't show your belly like that until after that and it became like a thing. um like She did a lot of things just involving her beauty. the that When she was in ah Charlie's Angels, she was like 40 and they acted like she was 90 looking hot in a bikini. This has been her career, so it's kind of hard to think of anybody else in this role because she kind of is Elizabeth. Yeah. What about a pretty lady, Erin Brockovich, Julie Roberts? Julie Roberts. Julie Roberts, maybe. I don't know. Julie Roberts is as likable as to me. Yeah, she probably wouldn't have done it. I don't think probably if she had been her, probably wouldn't have been great. Demi definitely, she fucking nailed the shit out of it. No, I think you raised great points. Like there are other people
00:57:36
Speaker
around that age that could have been, but could they have delivered yeah quite like Demi? yeah And I don't think so. Like, this is one of those that it's hard to picture anybody else in that role. And like you said, Demi's career was kind of built on that. And so for her to be in this part, I mean, one of the great parts about this movie is that giant poster of herself that constantly stares down at her. And I, I mean, part of me, I don't think Margaret Qualley and Demi Moore had to be convinced to take these roles. I don't think so. I think somebody handed them a script. I don't know for sure. Corley might have been like, this is who I want. And but
00:58:33
Speaker
you read these scripts and I can see why both of them would have been like, I need to do this movie. Demi said she knew it was either going to be a masterpiece or a disaster. So she had to weigh whether or not she trusted Coralee to deliver on what the script promised. So there was at least a bit of like, this could become, I could be a laughingstock because in the wrong hands, this would not have been good.
00:58:58
Speaker
This would have been one of those movies that we were like, oh my God, it was so bad that it was fun, like under the wrong person. The right person got a hold of it and she made art. Like she created the whole thing. She didn't get a hold of it. But the right person had the project. The right person made this movie. Yeah. Well, that what you said leads into what I'm saying about the editing and special effects is that if Corley had shown any restraint in her final version of this film,
00:59:27
Speaker
it would not have worked. I think what makes this work, and I'm gonna lump this in with the editing and special effects, is that this movie is an assault on your senses. yeah yeah And that's that's the editing, that's the direction, that's the music, that is all of this. It is edited, like you said, in a way that you are supposed to notice.
00:59:54
Speaker
it I mean, from the title cards, i the graphic design, I'm putting that in here too. Like it is bold and it is loud and it is, there are moments that are edited and shot like commercials, like a Coke commercial when Sue popping open that can and we like scan her full body from knee up. I'm like, this is, this is an ad that's not a movie.
01:00:23
Speaker
Wayne's World product placement, you know? It's so shiny, so glossy, so perfect. And that it's all intentional. It's all the colors.
01:00:37
Speaker
The multiple scholar color schemes from using complementary colors, a lot of primary colors. There's not often that I see a lot of movies like Go For Realism, whatever, understandable. This movie, not really.
01:00:54
Speaker
Like even the set, I'm watching it on my third time and I'm looking out her window and I'm like, you know, we never really see anything move outside the window. So I don't care that it's- That billboard is appearing and disappearing. Yeah, the billboard keeps changing. But I'm like, we don't see the trees blow. We don't see traffic move outside. I don't need that in this because we're supposed to pay attention to the billboard. That's what's there.
01:01:23
Speaker
and everything is just an assault on your senses and it works. And I think if Corley had dialed that back and not gone all out, then I think what you're saying about this would have been laughably like, oh, it's so good, it's bad, or it's so bad, it's good. That's what we would have had. Instead, I think we saw an artist who made bold choices and knew what the final vision was and put it together. Like she took two years to work on the script, but there was also, she did a short years ago that was the this idea, I believe it had a man in the lead, but it was a short of the same premise and she expanded upon it for this film.
01:02:22
Speaker
So it's an idea she's been playing with for a while, but I think the editing special effects, I mean, you brought up the practical effects, which I love seeing. Love it. Thank you so much for doing it. It ruined Margaret Qualley's face, she said in an interview.
01:02:41
Speaker
wearing the Monstro Sue. She said some of the reasons why her butt is on screen so much is because her face was broken out in acne from the prosthetics. So they filmed her lower body for a lot of the other stuff. ah I also just think that in itself, the way they shot that,
01:03:04
Speaker
it is, I wanna say this right,
01:03:10
Speaker
It's not, it is, it is meant to be like hypersexual, but because of the type of movie this is and what it's saying, it is not ah exciting. It's uncomfortable. There's no eroticism really. yeah No, it's uncomfortable.
01:03:39
Speaker
It's like you're watching it and you're like, this feels wrong. Like I, I'm more on edge than I am excited by what I'm seeing. And I think that is 100% intentional in, it's the commentary that the movie's going for partially. And it's also just,
01:04:04
Speaker
an insane accomplishment for Coralee to be able to choreograph that and walk that line so closely.
01:04:15
Speaker
to walk it and not make it erotic when your cast is naked for 30% of the movie and in and have that kind of sexualized undertones that she's going for of Sue is a sex symbol, you know? But we're watching it going like, I don't like where this is going, you know?
01:04:41
Speaker
I love that about it because that is, to me, that's true true art. When you are saying something like that, you're walking a dangerous line. And if you cross that line, you're going to change the message of the movie. And you tow it and you deliver it.
01:05:06
Speaker
perfectly. And that's what Corley managed to do with this. Like, I'm not going to show my mom this movie. I'm not, but it's still an incredible message, incredible delivery. And that goes into the editing and the way the special effects are all used to tell that. So like yeah I love Monstro,
Final Scenes and Thematic Reflections
01:05:32
Speaker
Eliza Sue. I know it's hilarious.
01:05:36
Speaker
And it's tragic when she is putting her makeup on and the earrings on. Stabbing the earrings into the side of her head. Curling her hair. like I want to cry. I want to cry. And I love that it seems nobody notices until she pulls off the mask. And I think that goes back to the commentary. ah I mean, like I was saying about people who take plastic surgery too far, just keep going with it and, you know, lips are injected to here, ah whatever. But I think that kind of goes to like, you don't comment on it. You know, people don't want to be like, oh, maybe you shouldn't have done that. And I think that's what we're seeing on screen. They're seeing it's a parody of that. It's a,
01:06:31
Speaker
character of it almost. So yeah, I it's a five easy, easy kind of hard but her face crawling to her star at the end. Oh, I love it. Sad. When we saw that far in the beginning, and I saw her name for the first time, Elizabeth sparkle, I was like, this is a movie for me.
01:06:53
Speaker
This is it. Just the star and the name. I was like, let's go. Let's go. There's a couple other bits that I really like, too, as well, though, like some of the transitions between that that kind of symbolize part one, part two, part three kind of thing where you see like when she does the first activation and you see like that image of that heart blazing and fired for that symbolism of change and like kind of like yeah rekindling that that fire inside for something.
01:07:21
Speaker
was really cool. And then you see like, when Sue is kind of like on the top of the world, that flame image of the dragon, it turns into the robe as they kind of expand out from that, you know, like things like that were really cool. And then like when Demi took the first shot, or when she did the activation shot,
01:07:38
Speaker
yeah which you know, when she hits the floor and starts like spazzing me out, instead of seeing her ride and like just thrash around the floor through the whole thing, I like how they kind of cut to that visualization that looked like a speeding change of chromosomes in the DNA helix and the variant and the change of colors and how that all went and just how swift it was to kind of help give that idea of that sense of change as well. And I was like, dude, that's super cool.
01:08:08
Speaker
Really love that part of it. Yeah. Also, like we mentioned, if they don't win an award for the makeup that he used to make Demi Moore look older and not the monstrous, the monstrous form. Like the the old swamp hag kind of looking thing, just not nasty.
01:08:29
Speaker
Yeah, right I'm talking even before that when it's like just her leg and her hands and she just the legs was brutal. yeah It's it's really good. Yeah, really good. Yeah. So the script then. Yeah.
01:08:46
Speaker
script, man. Holy cow. There wasn't as much dialogue as you would think there would be, which is fine. It's it's great. you know You didn't really need too much because it's more a lot about the imagery than anything when it comes to script. But there are some lines in there though that are very gripping throughout the film.
01:09:03
Speaker
um Just that whole idea that they keep flashing, you know, verbally and then with visually with the cards and the sign, the commercial, you are one, you know, just over, you are one, you are one. And that reminder that even though there's different sides to us, you know, you are one, you are one and trying to maintain that idea.
01:09:21
Speaker
was really crazy. but But one of the bigger ones that got me was when she, when Demi's in the cafe and then that old man starts talking to her, you know, ah you had mentioned earlier how, you know, he's talking about how you're still worthy of love. But there was that other part, though, um where he was like, has she started yet eating away at you? You know, and like the the visceral, the angry old man way that he said it to her, you know, that was like lying was yeah did just kind of stuck with me pretty hard.
01:09:50
Speaker
um And then then Demi's freaking out in the kitchen when she pulls out the French cooking book and she's listening to Sue in the interview on the TV. And she's like freaking out because Sue talks about Jurassic Fitness, how outdated she is. And she's like, come on and get your Jurassic Fitness while she's got the eggs, just eggs spraying everywhere. You know, all crazy like dudes.
01:10:16
Speaker
Oh, wow, man. There's a lot of short lines, but it's really, really, really hard delivery. that just It just sits and he just sticks in your mind really hard. so um yeah that Between that and regular dialogue with Oliver and how goofy he is and Fred and his fumbling you know with, you oh, you're still the most prettiest girl in the world. you know it' like it so and It was kind of sad, but hopeful at the same time. And just her in trying to talk to Fred on the phone, even just like that sense of desperation she had and just trying not to sound like she's desperate to to talk to somebody to to meet somebody or something. And just that whole conversation, it's bad. It just it kind of hit in a sad way. But overall, man, yeah, and I'm going to have to say it's a five on this one as well.
01:11:11
Speaker
Also a five for me. um I ah really enjoy the way that it's structured. And I really like the way that she put like layers in every single scene. And she uses horror in a way where it's not just the scenes with the blood and the guts. Horror doesn't just mean it has to be scary. It doesn't just mean blood and guts. You can just be horrified by what you're seeing.
01:11:40
Speaker
And one of the scenes that I thought was really well sort of showed how good she is at this is the scene where they are filming Pump It Up and Sue has a bump appear on her butt.
01:11:52
Speaker
and they immediately pull the footage up, and it's up close of her ass, and she's sitting here mortified, not just because there's a bump on her butt, but also because they're all like like going over her with a magnifying glass. So then you're horrified for her that she's having to watch this, but it's also horrifying to watch every other person in the room who doesn't seem to understand how fucked up the situation is.
01:12:18
Speaker
They're all treating it like that. like that it She's a piece of meat to these people. like It's just another thing, but to her it's huge. And the layers that she comes up with whenever she constructs a scene is fantastic. It's it's all throughout the entire movie. it's that The scenes work on multiple levels, not just surface level, ooh, this is scary.
01:12:40
Speaker
And I thought that's why it's not just a good it's not just a good horror script. It's a good script, but it is horror. Nobody is going to be able to watch this movie and go, it's a thriller just because they liked it and didn't don't want to be like a horror movie.
01:12:58
Speaker
ah ah Yeah, it's a five for me. Yeah. So you brought up a scene I wanted to talk about because I don't know. I don't know if I just read into it this way. i That scene where that bump appears on her butt. I thought it was one of those like hilarious dark comedic moments in this movie because.
01:13:25
Speaker
I hear it on TV. I don't know if I've ever actually heard it in life, but what do
01:13:33
Speaker
Maybe it's a Midwest thing. ah Older women tell younger, skinny women when they're eating junk food. Oh, that's gonna end up on you. that's going to go straight to your butt or that's going to go straight to your hips. Yeah, whatever. And so she has that moment where that chicken leg went straight to her butt. And I was like, that is dark, hilarious comedy. I i thought that was brilliant. I wasn't even thinking about like the butt on the screen. I mean, I was, but I was also like that chicken leg.
01:14:13
Speaker
going straight to her hips is genius level of like not even chewed, just full physical chicken leg under the skin. That's one of the things I love ah about the script in this movie. Like you said, just about everything works on multiple levels. There is time and effort and craft just in everything. i Honestly, this is one of those movies that like people are talking about Cora Lee is a new talent on the scene. Yes. And no, like I said, she's done other movie, at least Revenge. I've seen that one. But it's going to be real hard to top this one.
01:15:06
Speaker
just because the level of care that went into every aspect of it. So I honestly, I originally had the script at a four because it was so sparse, but I don't think that's fair because even if a script is sparse, it's still written to have all of this stuff happen. I've read it. It's written like a book.
01:15:30
Speaker
um yeah Not literally, but the way that she's describing things and and all of that, it's paragraphs of stuff. Yeah, so I believe it. so yeah i'll I'm switching mine to a five because even though the script itself, the dialogue, I should say, is sparse, you can tell the level of care that went into the writing process. So I have to i have to bump it up to a five.
01:15:58
Speaker
and I think it has a decent shot at best original screenplay. I really do. They like to award weird stuff in the screenplay categories, get out one ah best screenplay. They like to award weirder stuff there, and I think that it it definitely has a shot there. Let's hope. I would love to see it win a couple. I think the best chances are Demi, screenwriting, and makeup. I don't think Cora Lee has a chance, but I wish she did.
01:16:26
Speaker
I will say, was Wicked's director nominated for? I don't i'll have to look because I I do appreciate Wicked's director.
01:16:37
Speaker
um
01:16:41
Speaker
Not best picture, but I have not seen it. I don't know. ah The guy who directed The Brutalist, the the guy who directed A Complete Unknown, the guy who directed Enora, the guy who directed Amelia Perez and The Substance. So. James Mangold for A Complete Unknown. Yeah, I'm going, I hope Cora Lee, but that's going to be a tough one because I know people are losing their minds over Enora. I don't want to see that one. And The Brutalist is apparently very good. Enora is fine. I saw the trailer for Brutalist. I don't know if I can sit through a movie that long, even with a
01:17:17
Speaker
Intermission because brutalist is wrong. Yeah, isn't it like three three? It's it's over three hours. I'm pretty sure what the hell Yeah, yeah, I've heard good things but it's just like i you can do it eventually ah Just not Amelia Perez, please not Amelia Perez. Oh my god, I Mean all right and We even need to discuss the acting further I don um We already know where we're at on that. It's yeah it's obvious. Five's all around. We're five's all around on that. Dennis Quaid is hamming it up. um He was actually not the original person in that role. Who was? Ray Liotta.
01:18:11
Speaker
Oh. And Ray Liotta passed away before, I'm pretty sure it was before filming was complete. And so they brought Quaid in and re-shot.
01:18:24
Speaker
i hu No, he was cast, but he never got to film. So, Ray Liotta was cast in the film in 2022, but died the that year before he could film his scenes. I think Ray Liotta is the better choice. I don't think Ray Liotta is as repulsive as Quaid can be.
Performances of Supporting Cast
01:18:44
Speaker
Yeah, Dennis Quaid was disgusting. And Dennis Quaid, honestly, he plays a vile character, but he looks like he is just having a fantastic time. Oh, yeah. He's having a blast. He's having a hell of a lot of fun. Yes. Being that over the top and obnoxious. Yep. I've never seen Quaid act like that before. It's quite good. And so right now, I'm just trying to bring up ah the other good performances in the movie because Demi,
01:19:14
Speaker
deserves an award for this. She's fantastic. But I think Qali is quite good too. The only other thing I've seen her in is Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, and I loved her in that. And I've heard she's her show The Maid is very good, but I am blanking on the movie that I saw. She is one of my, um I will see her in anything and has been for a while. The one that I can very, very highly recommend that I can't even remember the name of is um Sanctuary.
01:19:51
Speaker
She plays, it's it's a reviewer that i really I really like her work called it a rom-com, but it's like it's not, it's it's a it's a thriller. It's about a guy and his dominatrix and they're in a hotel room and it's the only time, it's just the two of them in this hotel room. So it's like a bottle episode movie. And um she plays a dominatrix who doesn't wanna be fired and goes all out and she's a nut and it's fantastic.
01:20:21
Speaker
And I cannot recommend Sanctuary enough. It came out in 2022. And the last time I looked, it was on Hulu. So it's out there for people to be able to stream. It's really, really good. And she's insane in it.
01:20:36
Speaker
um She was also in poor things. ah ah She was in driveway dolls, which was not great, wanted to like it, didn't like it. That's what I've heard. And I haven't seen kinds of kindness yet, but I've heard that's another one that's worth watching. But from now on, anything that she's in, I'm going to go back and find because I just love her. Yeah, I think she's one of the ones to One of the ones to watch if she wasn't already, I think over the next couple of years, she's only going to get bigger and better roles because she is quite talented. Yeah. And that's, that's just saying this because we don't need to say much more about Demi Moore. It's just amazing.
01:21:25
Speaker
Jonathan, you have anything else to add to that? No, yeah we've we've already talked so much about the acting and how awesome delivery is it. We can go on next topic easily. So we can go hit up some direction. Yeah. I've already talked about this one a lot too. but Yeah, we've we've we've mentioned a lot of different stuff throughout all the different aspects of the movie. But um yeah, man, there's
01:21:56
Speaker
Oh man, trying to like coordinate my thoughts here for a sec. I just like this this the idea, like some of these scenes with like when Demi wakes up and she has her freak out with the French cookbook and Sue wakes up after the fact, like waking up and seeing how the that whole window has been plastered over with newspaper and egg to hide that sign.
01:22:23
Speaker
So she can like block out the hate of herself, that's this the hate for this other side, just how much she despises it and everything. It was just crazy incredible, man. Just like the flip out freak out scene in the kitchen and her just tossing eggs at the TV and just trying to hide away from this other aspect that she's created for herself was incredible.
01:22:44
Speaker
yeah know So. so Yeah. Oh, you know, I'm not good at this topic, but you know, I think it's a five in direction anyway. You know what bothers me about that scene? What? The uncovered leftovers in the fridge. Right. It's like, dude, where is the Saran wrap? Put some plastic wrap on that. Somewhere where who just leaves chicken open in the fridge? All the food in this movie is presented as disgusting.
01:23:16
Speaker
Yes. Oh, yeah, just a slobfest. None of it looks good. It is disgusting. There's something very touching on eating disorders there. um The chicken reminded me of Girl Interrupted, Brittany Murphy's character in that movie. I read the book and I saw the movie. Brittany Murphy's character in that movie.
01:23:33
Speaker
is has an eating disorder and she will get a whole chicken and eat it and put it under her bed and that's what her eating all of that chicken reminded me of is just that for some reason whole chickens just kind of left out remind me of that so it felt very like I'm gonna binge eat a chicken and leave the carcass lying around and then Yeah. Yeah. it did There's there's there's it's not like at the forefront of like there's eating disorder issues, but she's already got body image issues. She's already got this going on. It's not that much of a stretch that she's now binge eating because she can't leave her house. It's really a bitch slap to her younger self. Like fuck you what you doing to me? Yeah. I you i admit eat a chicken. That's more. That's more chicken dreams. But bitch self-loathing.
01:24:22
Speaker
Like, she just hates herself so much. It's tragic. Yeah. That, that interesting point. but Going back to revenge, if you watch it it, it is a rape revenge movie. I don't like rape revenge movies. I've seen a bunch. I don't need to see any more. But after I saw the substance, I have a friend. She was like, you will like this movie. Watch this movie. So I did. And you can see some of her trademarks that she's carried over into the substance because this is another one where
01:24:55
Speaker
She's got a girl and she's cute and she's sexy and she's got like very it's very girly. She's got like pink plastic earrings in the shape of stars. Just like Margaret in this movie, she's walking around instead of full pajamas, she's in a t-shirt and panties, like long hair that's really well done.
01:25:12
Speaker
And the movie is like, are do you really find this sexy? She's about to get raped. You know she's about to get raped. She's walking around in the desert after being raped, has a hole in her stomach. Are you really going to call this sexy? And and and the substance has that as well. So there's things that she's cooking on and has been cooking on, even if the story is completely different. And so I'm i'm so excited to see what she does next because
01:25:38
Speaker
there's There's a lot of these auteur type directors, but there's they're never entertaining to me. It's people like Quentin Tarantino. He's fantastic. But there's all these like little people that make independent films that I could care less about. This is someone making independent films that are fun.
Luca Guadagnino and the 'Suspiria' Remake
01:25:55
Speaker
Yes. You're bringing that people. lu I don't want to name names. I'm going to. Luca Guadagnino, whatever his name is. People obsess over like challengers.
01:26:08
Speaker
ah He did that movie, he did the one we watched recently was the Suspiria remake. What were your thoughts on that? I hated that movie. Jonathan liked it. I hated it. I hated it because I'm a huge Giallo fan and I'm a huge fan of Italian film and I'm a huge fan of the way the original looks. Yes. And I don't know how you could make Suspiria and make it brown and gray and black and white. and See, this was one of the ones that Jonathan and I disagreed on. He liked the new one. I liked the original.
01:26:42
Speaker
i watching the Suspiria remake, I never need to see a Luca movie again. I just thought it was pretentious. And I'm like, I don't need to, I don't need to watch anything else you do. When it was announced, he was redoing. Oh my God, he's redoing American Psycho. Brett Easton Ellis, Brett Easton Ellis said that's not true.
01:27:04
Speaker
Go ahead or not be. Bredy Sinellis claims he he wrote the book for anybody who doesn't know. yeah He claims that they were just floating that to see if anybody bit and that's there's nothing is actually in progress. Okay, good. I hope we're safe. We're safe. We don't need a remake to that movie. Yeah. because Adapt another one of Brett's books.
01:27:23
Speaker
Yeah. Suspiria fact here. So the lady that was in the original film who came back for a role in the remake, ah the Dr. Kleppner's wife or whatever. Right. Yeah. That disappeared. She passed away a few months ago. Whoa. Yeah. I saw just randomly in Google News. I'm like, oh, no, dude. I can't believe it's like, yes. Suspiria actress passed away. And like, ah we were just we just did an episode on that talk too long ago.
01:27:51
Speaker
Well, and I know ah Olivia from Black Christmas passed away not too long ago either. But anyways, Ivy, were you
Directorial Style: Auteurs vs. Pretentiousness?
01:28:01
Speaker
done with direction? we We got on a tangent about Luca because I don't like pretentious directors.
01:28:07
Speaker
Well, she's not pretentious. She is an auteur. She is a director-writer. She is in control. This isn't something that someone handed her the script and said, make this. And and so often with those kind of directors, we get garbage. We get boring. We get something that, you know, it gets self-indulgent, gets ridiculous. She's not there yet. Hopefully we have many, many years before people. Yeah.
01:28:29
Speaker
build up her ego to the point where she's like, I'm gonna make something ridiculous. And if you don't like it, that's your fault, megalopolis.
01:28:40
Speaker
So so i'm i just i'm ah this is why whenever people are like, the Oscars don't matter. Well, they do stupid stuff like nominate Amelia Perez for 13 awards, but Cora Lee is gonna get to make whatever movie she wants to make next. she's gonna The world will be her oyster.
01:28:57
Speaker
Um, and I want to know how she was allowed to make this one Universal sold it because they didn't think it was going to do anything universal are the ones that backed this And then after they saw it, they said no no and gave it to and sold it off to movie. I think there may be a They may be a subsidiary of universal. I have no idea and i'm pretty sure it's universal It's one of the huge studios, but they said no. No, we can't do anything with this. This is going to be nothing So they shuffled it off to movie and now look what it is ha suckers Universal sucks to be you. At least if Universal did it, there would have been a digital copy. But she also turned down directing Black Widow to make this. I saw that. But the smartest decision anybody's ever made. Great career move. Honestly, right now, nobody wants to direct a Marvel movie. And there wasn't time. But I listened to a guy who says they cast Marvel directors.
01:29:55
Speaker
because they already have the movie planned out yeah before they know who's directing it. So they're they're just picking a name to come in there and lead it. It's not really like even Sam Raimi's Marvel movie had maybe a whole two minutes where you're like, that was Sam Raimi. Yeah. and Originally it was supposed to be a horror movie and they they just took it out, yeah which they shouldn't do. Nope. Let the director do what you hired them for. It's Sam Raimi. Not only does he do horror, he made Spider-Man. Yes, Spider-Man.
01:30:31
Speaker
He knows how to make a superhero movie. Spider-Man 2 is one of the greatest Spider-Man movies, well, it's one of the greatest superhero movies ever made. If not the greatest, it's right up there. there's there's We could get into a whole debate about that, but Spider-Man 2. The better is the animated, is Spider-Verse. That's the only one I think is better. Into the Spider-Verse is fantastic. I love that movie.
01:30:55
Speaker
and But we would' we wouldn't have gotten this, and then she would have just been given this bland thing, and Black Widow was never gonna make any money, so that could have hurt her career. I like superhero movies, I like sequels, I like remakes, I like equals, but not at the expense of movies like The Substance.
Hollywood's Originality Crisis
01:31:16
Speaker
Yes.
01:31:18
Speaker
well Because we get complaints a lot about there's not enough original in Hollywood right now. And like you said, I still I'm nervous about the faculty remake. Am I going to go? I heard about that. no Yeah, I'm a little salty about that. ah yeah I don't mean to revere that movie. I'm just like, why? Yes. It's as fun as it is. It doesn't need a remake. Kids from the first movie is The Teachers, aren't they? That's what they're gonna do. Outside of a guy's terrible haircut in that movie. I love that movie. Also,
01:31:55
Speaker
I'm also okay with seeing the remake. I don't anticipate it. Yeah. I don't anticipate it being better. I would almost rather studios took the time to go back and like fix. That movie had some pretty wonky special effects. yeah a little bit Go back and fix that. Clean that up.
01:32:20
Speaker
You have a fantastic movie still. So it's a great movie even with the very dated early 2000s CGI or late 90s. That's 90s, yeah. As long as they don't screw up the soundtrack because, I mean, in fact, they had a great soundtrack. So yes they're going to do a remake that also better have a great soundtrack. young Or it's going to be a little pissy. Yep. The faculty was so good. But yeah, like you said, I'm still going to see the remake, but I also hear a lot of people like, oh, box offices aren't doing as well because there's nothing original bringing people in. So exactly what you said, I want more substance at the box office, more original that's going to bring people in, even though I'm OK with the remakes as well. But i if I'm correct, everything Disney released in 2024 was a sequel or a remake. Yes.
01:33:16
Speaker
There was no new, ah like, original content. That's correct. So that's insane to me. That's insane. And that's short-sighted, also. Yeah. It's not a good strategy for the future. And they're not doing anything. they're not They have IP that they could use, like, I want to see ah like more Muppet movies. Give me Muppet Beauty and the Beast. Why not that? Because they own the Muppets. Why not give me Muppet Beauty and the Beast instead of a live action that's not even really live action. It's mostly animated anyway. yeah Do something fun with it. Because people love when you do a fun remake.
01:33:55
Speaker
I love that movies are great. I've been seeing the memes about like, hey, how about this Snow White movie? We just like make Miss Piggy Snow White. It was a meme that I saw a long time ago and it was what movie?
01:34:11
Speaker
Could you recast with all Muppets except one human actor? And my answer, and finally someone's gonna appreciate this more than the people who know me, my answer was a nightmare on Elm Street and John Saxon is the only human.
01:34:25
Speaker
wow hey Okay. Wow. That would be a ton of fun. That's that's super red. But give us weird people like it when something is weird. Whenever I'm running around going, this is a frickin weird movie that can convinced a lot of people to go see it. It's it's like people talk about two of the greatest Muppet adaptations were A Christmas Carol. Mm hmm. Where Michael Caine took his role deadly serious. That made the movie that much better. And then the Tim Curry Muppets on Treasure Island, where Tim Curry acted like a Muppet. He was just over the top. Hilarious. Both of those work because you're dealing with Muppets. Dealing with Muppets. Not poor animation, not not anything like that. Yep.
01:35:21
Speaker
<unk> We're very proud that Gremlins 3 is going to have real puppets in it. Like, I mean, I'm glad they hears about that I'm like, yeah, Gremlins 3. Also, it's Christopher Columbus. Yeah. So I don't think anybody's going to hire Joe Dante. Yeah. Why not?
01:35:41
Speaker
because of what he did with number two. That is an amazing film, but ah the that they were not happy with what he did. I i was gonna say, number two was still great and it doesn't get the love it deserves outside of the horror community. Yeah, yeah i don't think that he pleases I think he pissed off a lot of people making that one. yeah Even though in yeah in recent years it's become very well loved on the internet. Yes, because it's great.
01:36:09
Speaker
its And now we're talking about Gremlins. How does this even happen? Yeah. Did you say what you needed to about the I'll quickly, I'll read my notes. um Instead of just winging it, I'll read what I wrote. Every frame is meticulously composed to ill elicit discomfort from the sterile clinical settings to the hypersaturated neon lighting that enhances the film's themes to artificial perfection.
01:36:42
Speaker
She does things that I normally hate in movies like extreme close-ups or lingering on grotesque things. I hate extreme close-ups. I like it in this movie because it's an intentional decision made to discomfort us. Made to make us uncomfortable.
01:37:05
Speaker
i I love it. So it's a five for me on direction as well. The it factor. We've already talked quite a bit about the it factor on this film. Yeah. OK, Jonathan, you have more. Should we let Ivy as notes?
01:37:24
Speaker
You know what? I believe I've already mentioned enough. ah So I'm going to say that I'm a five on The It Factor because we know there's so many different themes interacting here together. Ivy, you go ahead and take it away. um yeah I have written my fifth novel about The It Factor of this movie.
01:37:40
Speaker
really
01:37:43
Speaker
I'm not going to read it word for word, but i i every every so often, every decade, every few years, ah horror shifts. The 80s had slashers, the 90s were kind of dry up until Scream came around.
01:37:58
Speaker
um
01:38:02
Speaker
Sorry, I'm losing my charger. Uh, the nineties were, you know, the nineties where we had torture porn and J horror in the OOs and then torture porn kind of turned into, um, it went away and then we got a lot of supernatural, like conjuring and conjuring led into the style of elevated horror. And when I say elevated horror, I'm not talking about Jordan Peele. I'm not talking about Ari Aster. I'm not talking about Robert Eggers, not talking about any of those people who are actually talented yeah for a very long time. and
01:38:34
Speaker
We've had movies that are elevated horror, which are drama movies that are drawn out to two and a half hours long with either five minutes of boo or one brutal killing and people are calling it horror. That's not horror. um And I've been very unhappy with a lot of that for a very long time because it gets really boring. um The only sin a movie can commit to me is boringness.
01:39:00
Speaker
um And I've been very unhappy for a very long time with horror. This is the opposite of that. This still has tells you a story. This has meaning, but it's also fun as hell to watch. And I think people are kind of done with trauma is the real monster. No, the real monster is s spewing blood on an audience that includes children and and showgirls. and the The first time I watched it, I didn't think that scene needed to exist.
01:39:28
Speaker
I thought that Margaret's tooth falling out could have been a very good ending. I didn't think it needed the the scene. And i've I've grown to appreciate it. And I'm a horror fan saying that. um But I appreciate it much more now. Now that I've seen it a couple of times, I think it definitely needs it. And I think that going all the way is what does that. But it's entertaining to watch. It is so much fun to watch this movie. And I think, and I hope I'm correct, that people, the real world is so goddamn depressing that nobody wants to sit down and watch a gray movie for two and a half hours where nothing happens.
01:40:01
Speaker
I think we want to see fun, even if it's, you know, whatever. i think we I think we're moving on out of that to something that is entertaining. I think we're getting back to entertaining horror. I think that body horror is going to be blowing the fuck up. ah Grafted is another one that I mentioned. There's several coming out of the, the there's one ah with James Frank, not Jane Franco, Dave
Future of Horror Genre
01:40:22
Speaker
Franco.
01:40:22
Speaker
and Alice and Brie called Together, which is at was at Sundance just now. And I don't know anything about it, but my best guess is they are a couple that literally grow together. Like as one, because I know it's body horror and I know it's about happy being a couple. So I think that's what that's doing.
01:40:41
Speaker
And even like lighter body horror, I just saw companion, which is fantastic. I wanna see that. Run. It's blast. I heard good things. Without spoiling too much about it, it's another situation where I don't have entire control over my body. Things are happening to me that I don't have control over. um So that's body horror too, even if you know we're not coming, have somebody crawling out of someone else's back.
01:41:08
Speaker
yeah um So I think that's that's definitely going to be blowing up. And I think and this is my favorite and I should probably disclose for anyone who doesn't know who I am. I've never read my books. This is my genre, ah girly horror.
01:41:21
Speaker
And girly, i' I'm not talking about the main character as a woman. I'm not talking about feminist horror. I'm talking about hot pink. I'm talking about teenage girls getting to be realistic. I'm talking about hitting on things that that that resonate with women. I'm talking about Monstro Elisa Sue with the curling iron, dawling up herself, even though she's a monster. Yeah. um So Lisa Frank horror style? Yeah, almost. But I mean, i ah you know, I don't think anybody's going to call the substance frivolous because that that's a whole thing where girly stuff and glittery stuff and makeup and hair and that that that's seen it. That's looked down on ah for a very long time. You hear people talking about strong female characters. Ripley was originally written to be a man. Well, what's wrong with being feminine?
01:42:12
Speaker
Yeah. What's wrong with being a girl? What's wrong with the protagonist being in, ah honestly, being in a, like in revenge, being in a bikini with her hot pink earrings. Like there's nothing wrong with any of that. And I'm really hoping we're starting to like. Embrace that. Embrace that. Thank you. i couldn't think of so i'm I'm literally moving my arms in the shape of a hug. We're starting to embrace that. And I think it's really fun because it's something new.
01:42:39
Speaker
So, I mean, like Jennifer's Body is probably one of my favorite movies of all time. Jennifer's Body is like that. Ginger Snaps is like that jawbreaker. Ginger Snaps. There's so many of these movies that have existed in the past, but I feel like we're getting like inundated with them all of a sudden. And I'm like, can't catch them all.
01:42:56
Speaker
aye So I truly believe that in five, six years, we're gonna look back. This is the beginning of a new ah era in horror. And the substance is gonna be one of the movies people are talking about. Like when they talk about elevated horror, they mentioned Get Out, they mentioned Hereditary, they mentioned
Influence and Recognition of 'The Substance'
01:43:13
Speaker
movies like that. This is gonna be one of the ones that people bring up and mention. And this is what brought this all to us.
01:43:21
Speaker
So it's a five for me. I don't think five is high enough. I think this is really gonna have a lot of impact on the industry as a whole and the kind of films we're getting for a while. Hell yeah. Yeah, I hope you're right. I wanna see that.
01:43:36
Speaker
um i It's hard to follow that up. I normally, so in factor is, is it creating a buzz? And this is one of the first films since You said, get out. That horror has been nominated for Academy Awards. I have the list. Let me give you the list just so we see what we're up against. yeah The list of movies that are horror movies, and yes, these are all horror movies for anybody that would like to fight about it. The list of horror movies that have been nominated for Best Picture, The Exorcist, Jaws, Silence of the Lambs, The Sixth Sense, Get Out, Black Swan, and The Substance. So it is with some very good company.
01:44:22
Speaker
Yeah, that's insane. So that to me is the whole reason. I mean, yeah we we've already talked about the social commentary and all of that. And it's kind of just a scathing indictment of Hollywood itself. Oh, yeah. And it doesn't hold back on that. And that's awesome. So but the Academy Award nominations are what even though I'm like, yeah,
01:44:50
Speaker
They don't really mean that much anymore. They do and they don't. Yes, they do and they don't. But then Corley is going to get whatever, like just being nominated, her next movie is getting made. Demi is going to get offers. Margaret is going to blow up even more. Like those things are going to happen. um The people who made this movie will get more work and that is the biggest thing.
01:45:11
Speaker
Also, it's real fun to watch your team root for your team at the Super Bowl. It's real fun to watch horror. This movie, Nosferatu and ah Alien Romulus all nominated this year. It's just fun. And it's fun knowing your team has a chance. Because when some things get nominated, you're like, oh, that's nobody's ever going to award that. But this time, it might actually happen. And if it doesn't, bummer. But if it does, that's really cool. Also, if Amelia Perez wins any category,
01:45:41
Speaker
Any category, it will mark the end of... That's just shameful. yeah It's shameful. you know It'll mark the end. But yep, so it factors a five for me. um We have been pretty unanimous. We don't really need to go into our, well, we can do our entertainment and our total total scores.
01:46:09
Speaker
um I, I'm, I'm betting it's the same on entertainment value. I think it's a unanimous kind of situation here. Tens, tens, tens across the board. Yeah. When I watch this movie, you get a meeting. I can't ah would turn around and turn, put this right back on.
01:46:33
Speaker
It's because like you said, it's fun to watch. It's fun to watch. And I have said in many episodes now that I like two kinds of horror. I like the kind that gets under your skin and the kind that's purely entertaining. This is both of those. Yes.
01:46:57
Speaker
Coralee's credit is an editor too. Yes, I saw that. i I believe it because the meticulous detail to every aspect of this film, I think she had her hands in all of it. I think this is like a true director's vision movie.
01:47:19
Speaker
ah So we're tend to cross the board on that. Let's go, I'm gonna read our submitted one from Jonathan, your friend X. yeah but i Five for story, five for character, three for music and sound design, five for editing and special effects,
01:47:41
Speaker
fours, fours, script, acting direction, an it factor, but a nine on the overall. Okay, I might have to talk about the music that sounded that. I might to have to talk with him about that. And then the comments are, director must have been a huge The Shining fan.
01:48:04
Speaker
Yeah, there's a lot of yeer eggs for shine there's a lot of Easter eggs for a lot of movies in there and I don't think that's on I don't think it's necessarily an accident. I also don't think we're supposed to draw comparisons.
01:48:16
Speaker
ah I think she wanted you to know she was making those references. I've seen a side by side on Instagram of this is the scene from Psycho where Janet Lee is laying on the floor, here's to me. like I've seen those, like they're definitely intentional, but it doesn't take me out of the movie because sometimes, I deal in heavy references when I write and I try my best to make them as seamless as possible. It drives me absolutely insane when somebody is like writing a slasher and they're like, ha ha, I've seen Scream. like I don't like that.
01:48:47
Speaker
And this movie doesn't feel like that. It feels all organic, even though she's pulling from everything from psycho to reanimate her, because this the substance itself looks like the stuff from reanimate her. It doesn't feel like she's ripping off any one thing and it doesn't feel it's cohesive in the way that she does it. It's it's original. She brings all that together to make something unique and yeah original. So, Jonathan, your friends total X's total was 43. We were all.
01:49:17
Speaker
fifty s 50s. Yeah. So let me get my hands. That's a rare situation right there. I don't think we've ever agreed on all this. So for the feedback x we appreciate that. Yes. It's always fun to get audience participation.
01:49:33
Speaker
So that takes us with that one score 48.25. So forty that that would round up to five stars out of five. I would say that's like, yeah, the highest scoring film we've we've done yet. Yeah, probably. I would have to double check. It's all the right marks.
01:49:51
Speaker
You know what's crazy? I think the only other one that was this high was The Fly from Cronenberg. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense. Another body horror classic. So that one... Actually, that one was not quite as high. So I know it was for me, but yeah. So last words, last thoughts on the movie.
01:50:20
Speaker
Uh, it kicks ass in just about every way. And I would love to have everybody watch it and hear what they think about it because this is such a kick-ass movie that yeah, I'm going to be watching this so many more times. Super awesome.
01:50:36
Speaker
um I think I've said all I actually need to say about the movie itself, but if you like this movie, go over to Shutter and watch Crafted. Watch Companion, either in theaters or whenever it hits streaming. ah Blink Twice is another really good one. It's on Amazon Prime right now. That's with Channing. Channing Patreons. Zoe Kravitz directed it.
01:50:57
Speaker
And um it is, there is a there is a trigger warning at the beginning of the film and I, to the person that told me to watch it, I expressed my distaste for that because I don't like that. um I think it's got it's got a trigger warning. It's rated R. Go to Does the Dog Die? See if you have a problem. There is nothing wrong with avoiding movies because it's not your cup of tea. The substance is not gonna be everybody's cup of tea either. I fully understand people not liking this movie because if you don't like certain things, you're not gonna like this movie. um But Blink twice does have a trigger warning and I was not grateful that they included it, but I understand why.
01:51:36
Speaker
Um, I will tell you when we are no longer recording a quick shot, but I was like, Oh God. And I immediately understood it, but it has a similar, the none of these movies are as good as a substance, but they all have similar like themes and they all have a similar, like that girly horror feel that I was talking about. And enough people are not talking about companion companion is fantastic. So you've seen the substance now go see these other things because especially grafted grafted is substance jr. Okay.
01:52:06
Speaker
And I have shutters so I can watch that one. Yep. Noice. Yeah. So I don't have a whole lot of final thoughts. i My final thoughts, I kind of said back at the beginning with the story, like this movie hit me harder than any movie I've seen in a long time. And I love that about it. ah Give it a shot. It's not going to work for everybody, like you said, but it's a good film. ah Just the fact I love the fact that there are always those people who watch every Academy Award Best Picture nominee. And some of those are like, oh, the brutalist is like the most amazing thing I've ever seen. And they're not really horror fans. And then they're going to put this one on. And I'm excited for that. I am excited for that. So yeah, I don't have a whole lot else to say. I feel like I've said it all. That's it for me.
01:53:09
Speaker
Okay then. Yeah. So Ivy, thank you again for joining us and being here. Always a great conversation. And I'm sure I'll be back. I don't know when, but I will be. Yeah, we we still have openings on the schedule. So you you let us know when you're ready and we'll figure that one out. All right? All right. We will see you in two weeks with the monkey.
01:53:38
Speaker
Yes. Oh my god, yes.