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13NoH S2N13 Black Christmas 1974 W/ Ivy Tholen and @black.chrismas
44 Plays6 months ago
Night 13 of 13 Nights of Halloween: Black Christmas (1974) - The Grand Finale We’ve made it to the chilling conclusion of our **13 Nights of Halloween** series, and we’re closing out with a true horror classic—*Black Christmas* (1974). This is where it all began, the original slasher that redefined holiday horror and paved the way for countless imitators. For this grand finale, we’re thrilled to be joined by horror author @ivy_tholen and the festive fright fanatic @black.chrismas. Together, we’ll dive into what makes this film an enduring staple of the genre, from its eerie atmosphere to its groundbreaking take on terror. Celebrate this iconic night with a specially crafted cocktail pairing available on our Instagram, and don’t miss out on the discussion—head over to Zencastr with our promo link for 30% off: [https://zencastr.com/?via=theaverage](https://zencastr.com/?via=theaverage) It’s been an incredible journey through horror history, and we couldn’t think of a better way to end it than with this genre-defining masterpiece. #13NightsOfHalloween #BlackChristmas1974 #HorrorMovies #SlasherClassic #RemakesVsOriginals #IvyTholen #BlackChrismas #Podcast #HalloweenCountdown #HorrorCommunity #CocktailPairing #FilmReviews #ZencastrPromo #SeasonFinale
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Transcript
Mysterious Instructions
00:00:00
Speaker
Are you the only one in the house? No. Phil and Barbara upstairs asleep. Why? All right. Now, I want you to do exactly what I tell you without asking any questions, okay?
Introduction to Season Finale
00:01:24
Speaker
This is Tim, this is Jonathan, and welcome to the final night of 13 Nights of Halloween. So, fright seekers, Halloween lovers, and movie fans in general, it is the grand finale of our chilling journey through 13 nights of horror movies.
00:01:49
Speaker
It's also our season finale. As the moon hangs high and the shadows grow long, we arrive at our 13th and final installment where the classics clash against their remakes in a battle for terror supremacy.
Overview of 'Black Christmas'
00:02:03
Speaker
Tonight, we summon the eerie echoes of a bygone era as we delve into the sinister depths of the 1974 masterpiece Black Christmas by Maestro Bob Clark.
00:02:17
Speaker
Joining us for one last time on this spy and tingling Odyssey is none other than horror author Ivy Tholen. Hello. And Chris from At Black Christmas on Instagram.
00:02:32
Speaker
We prepare to unravel the mysteries and horrors lurking within the timeless original that laid the groundwork for generations of terror to come. So gather close, dear viewers, as we brace ourselves for a night of unbridled fear and unrelenting suspense. For in this hallowed halls of this quaint sorority house, whispers of dread and shadow of the past converge to weave a tapestry of nightmares that will haunt your dreams long after credits roll.
00:03:01
Speaker
Welcome to Episode 13 of 13 Nights of Halloween, where darkness reigns supreme and fear has but one name, Black Christmas. Okay, so I'll break down the plot for us and then let's dive into this, the plot summary. As the holiday season descends upon Bedford, the sorority sisters of Pi Kappa Sigma House prepare for the festive break. However, their merriment is shattered when they begin receiving disturbing and obscene phone calls from an unknown assailant.
00:03:34
Speaker
Despite their initial dismissals, the calls soon take a darker turn, signaling the presence of a sinister force lurking in their midst. As tensions rise and the mysterious caller's threats escalate, the sisters find themselves ensnared in a web of paranoia and fear. When one of their own goes missing, panic grips the house and the realization dawns that they may be facing a predator far more malevolent malevolent than they could have but ever imagined. With the help of Lieutenant Ken Fuller, the determined police officer assigned to this case, Jess Bradford takes charge and then in unraveling the chilling mystery before it's too late. As the snow blankets the town and the body count rises, Jess must confront the terrifying truth lurking behind the walls of the sorority house before darkness claims them all.
Unique Elements and Character Dynamics
00:04:29
Speaker
Who wants to go first for this film? Oh, can I? I feel based on our scores. I feel like that's a good idea. Okay, so.
00:04:43
Speaker
Man, I like this one way better than the other two. Okay, that's good to hear. This is definitely way, way better. I'd like this a lot more. So, with storing the plot, man, like considering the time that it came out, 1974, you didn't get a lot of stuff like this. you know This was pretty unique for the time.
00:05:04
Speaker
um The same concept you know that you have with all the other ones. you know You've got your sorority house, sisters, it's Christmas time. You got your sorority mom. Everybody's doing their thing. They're partying it up. And there's this a series of of creepy calls going on. You're freaking everybody out. and you know Weird voices, multiple voices even. just you know Just being really, really obnoxious and crude. It's out there. And you know, it makes some kind of sense. Dude, there's some really crude stuff here.
00:05:33
Speaker
um But, you know, be the people, the cast and everything and who they got to play the characters and how they ran it out, man, it's it's a trip of a story. um Going from the creepy calls and then with Claire going missing, you know, she heard her trying to pack and leave and then like her dad showing up to pick her up and not being there and then like the search beginning.
00:05:57
Speaker
um yeah how everything set off from there and how things just got escalated and got you know more tense and scary throughout everything. And with the lack of technology that we have now versus what you see there and how old school everything is, the way they ran it down, it was pretty cool.
00:06:15
Speaker
you Jess being the main character, kind of the focus of the thing with what she had going on, you know, and her boyfriend, Peter, who seems like pretty stressed with this whole trying to be a pianist, recital guy, whatever it is you're doing with the observatory or couldn or can conservatory. I don't remember. Yeah. several yeah um You got their their attention, like everything is twisted with them and their relationship and not wanting to be together and the whole idea of her being pregnant. ah And then just, you know,
00:06:43
Speaker
Then like trying to find and like more or there's like another girl goes missing and then you've got, you know, the detectives and like stupid, stupid guy, yeah Sergeant Nash, you know, who doesn't have a clue. But then you've got John Saxon playing Lieutenant Fuller, who was pretty on track with it. He was deep into his investigation and really feeling things out.
00:07:04
Speaker
I don't know. it's just I like the story overall a lot better than how they laid it out with the other ones. um I gave it a four just because it just it there was so much more focus on what was going on directly with the creepy collars and someone creeping them out into the murder and trying to find Claire. ah I don't know. I'm not explaining it well, but I just really like this moon this version a whole lot more than the 2006 and 2019 version.
00:07:32
Speaker
That's good to hear, Jonathan. I was nervous since you were the only one who'd never seen this. I was worried what the reaction to this movie would be. So um I'm glad to hear you like this more than the other two.
00:07:44
Speaker
There's so many different things I want to talk about it, but I'm trying to like save it for the other categories. So it's like, well, I've kind of fallen off here. Yeah. ah Because there's so much. There's so much. This movie, since we've already done the two remakes that came after this, all three movies are open game to discuss. And we talked about how the 2019 version was about the message.
00:08:13
Speaker
And to me, this is how you make a movie with a message because this movie exists amazingly without the message, but then you understand the message and it's like unlocking a whole other level to how brilliant this film is.
Themes and Cultural Commentary
00:08:33
Speaker
So, and I don't, me, I'm watching this and this movie is about men controlling women's bodies.
00:08:40
Speaker
That's what this movie is. and we have it from We have it specifically Jess and her boyfriend, him telling her she has to keep the baby even though she doesn't want it. so That's him controlling her. We have the killer taunting the women in extremely graphic detail about what he wants to do to their bodies.
00:09:03
Speaker
And possibly what he did to a girl named Agnes, who we know very little about in this film, and I prefer that. We have the father who is shocked at his daughter's behavior and frequently says this isn't how he raised her. This isn't what he would have chosen for her life. And it just throughout, there's so many different versions of some kind of control. And there's also so many different versions of women reacting to it in this movie. And the ultimate, you know, justice story is kind of the focus, but ultimately I view this movie as like the killer. We have that red herring with the boyfriend, but that's a parallel for the deeper story that's being told here about control. And the killer is the extreme,
00:10:02
Speaker
manifestation of that control over their body. He is ending their lives. It's not voluntary. Okay. if So that is, to me, that's the deeper story. As a slasher, it works. Well, pseudo slasher.
00:10:19
Speaker
It works fantastically. And then there's also just this deeper layer there to that storytelling. Like, one of the things I love about this film and the story is that it subverts the slasher tropes, because who is the first person to go? Probably the most innocent person in the house.
00:10:43
Speaker
And I love that about this. So for me, I i give the story a five. I think this story is brilliant. It set the foundation for so many stories to come after it, but it did it better than all of them. Yeah, you said it way better than I did. I was not succinct at all. It's okay.
00:11:10
Speaker
I think Ivy should go next because I don't really know how to follow that. That was all said just perfectly. Oh, thank you. We talked about 2019 being tell, don't show the movie. This is the exact inverse. yeah It doesn't preach at you. It doesn't tell you what you need to be thinking. It just shows you a situation and says, why don't you think about this? And that's a much better way to get a something across to people than yelling at them and wagging a finger and having people just parrot things that the writer believes. um This movie, in my opinion, is the first modern s slasher, like period. There's other stuff. People can debate Psycho. People can debate Peeping Tom. and they' obviously You brought up my favorite movie of all time.
00:12:02
Speaker
no psycho i'll say i've never heard of this movie what psycho there is but I totally agree with what you're saying the body count in psycho is like it's it's not a body count it kind of
00:12:20
Speaker
germinated the idea, and then this is that first one to have a significant body count and kind of no motivation for specific people. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I agree completely, actually.
Sound Design and Suspense Techniques
00:12:32
Speaker
And we have the killer the killer's point of view stalking all of these girls. That used to be a much bigger deal in the earlier slashers. Friday the 13th does it, too, um where you're seeing from Billy's point of view or Jason's point of view. And and when it's done well, it's really scary.
00:12:48
Speaker
and it's done so well in this movie. It is absolutely terrifying. If I was on the end of those phone calls, I would be crying. If those were coming to me, I would be crying. And I'd be hanging up the phone immediately. I would not sit and listen. But they just oh just all of it was just fantastic. And it it created the formula. I mean, there's also it also owes a lot to Italian Giallo films. Like a lot, a lot. Even the color of the blood.
00:13:16
Speaker
yeah that was exactly what I'm saying, yes, last night when I was watching it, I was like, that's red paint. It's great. Yeah, it's pretty bright. And I was like, ph yeah, yeah. That's how Italian jello films are. The blood looks like red paint in all of them. It's fabulous. um But this is this is the American one. This is the one. This is the one that created it. I love it.
00:13:39
Speaker
Yeah, I don't really know if I have anything else to say. I gave it a four for, I mean, all the reasons that you guys all said. I mean, I honestly, I have never, I mean, I understood to some degree, kind of the the layers to the plot here, but I had never really thought of the narrative as much as you had. I mean, I don't know, you unveiled a lot of things to me, Tim. So as as many times as I see this movie, it's always been just, you know, one of my favorite slashers. And I had never really thought about, I guess, the parallel between what Billy is doing to the girls and what Peter is doing to Jess, which makes sense. I just, I never really thought about it much.
00:14:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I gave it a four. I think it's fun. I don't know. I have and I don't know what category this falls into exactly on here, but kind of my only sort of gripe. And I think I lumped it in the story, which is why I didn't give it a five. But I think there's like a slight pacing problem. at least Maybe it's just because I've seen this movie so much that kind of around like minute 20 to like minute 40 or something. I know it's very specific, but It's kind of after that 15 minute opening sequence and until ah Saxon gets involved that I think there is a little pacing issue. And so I kind of launched that in a story, which is why I gave it a four, but I I love, I love that segment because that is Mrs. Mack's segment. Yeah.
00:15:10
Speaker
I love Mrs. Mack so much. That is, that is her portion because she, like outside of her, this movie has very little humor. I guess, is it? Barbra's hilarious. Barbra's hilarious. Barb's kind of a bitch though, dude. I love her. I love her so much. Getting that little kid drunk? I mean, come on. The kids are so funny. He's like giving him sips of it. She's like, what are you doing to that child woman?
00:15:39
Speaker
like Isn't she doing it in front of Claire's dad? Yeah, in front of Mr. Harrison. like What the hell? It's so funny. Margot Kidder is fantastic in this film. i love we'll get We'll get to her for acting. but Yeah, yeah, yeah. yeah i seen I love seeing the future Lois Lane get a kid drunk at a Christmas party in college. The hell?
00:16:04
Speaker
all right so You are not wrong about the pacing though. There are a couple scenes that really drag a little bit longer than they need to. I think Peter's when he's playing and for his whoever he's playing for. that was what It needs to go on for a while because we need to see him fall apart but it went on for a little bit too long and so did those carolers.
00:16:26
Speaker
It's like there's a couple of places where they really drag it out probably longer than they need to. I'm going to talk about the carolers later. Yeah. but Talk about some of that in the editing. oh yeah i i Okay. We got to keep going because I got a lot to say about this movie. ah may so all right then Character then, the character arc of this film ah I gave it a four. I'm just going to start with my score. I gave it a four because there's kind of a lack of resolution at the end. But it goes back to what I said about the Jess's boyfriend kind of wanting to control her and her future. And I think the arc is perfectly captured.
Character Arcs and Independence Themes
00:17:16
Speaker
When she tells Peter at the conservatory, she said says she's pregnant and she wants to have an abortion, and he snaps off and says, don't you ever consider anybody but yourself?
00:17:30
Speaker
And then later, when he comes to the house and they're sitting down and he is trying again to persuade her, and she says, you know, all of those dreams that we talked about when we started dating, all of those things I want to do with my life, I still want to do them. And you are in the way is basically what she says.
00:17:54
Speaker
And she ends it. He wants to get married and she's like, no, I have my dreams to pursue. And I think that's an incredible arc of her being strong willed and finding herself in the center of all of this that's going on. She breaks free from Peter. And that's the moment, honestly,
00:18:20
Speaker
early in the film, probably about halfway through, I'm back and forth on if Barb is the final girl or Jess is. And if it wasn't for Peter's storyline, I would have no indication that Jess was going to be, but because of the Peter story, it becomes clear. But it's that breaking of her relationship and that freedom and independence that she pursues on her own.
00:18:49
Speaker
that is a great character arc, and I think that is the message of the film, ultimately. And what I love about that is, like Ivy said about the 2019, it is very openly open to interpretation because it's not shoving any of that in your face. You're probably not going to catch it one time, two times, three times. If you're looking for it, you might.
00:19:12
Speaker
But I think that's the beauty of good art is that it's open to that interpretation and you can discover that message or that meaning on your own. Someone might get meaning from Barb's story, but I gave that story a four because the ultimate I guess she did break free. She ultimately killed Peter.
00:19:33
Speaker
But I gave it a four because she's like asleep on a bed at the end of the movie, and we don't really see that resolution of her being free. We see that she gets it, but I gave it a four. OK, well, I'll just go ahead and get my my shittiness out of the way. Yeah, I'm curious. When I think of character arc, I want to see growth and development ah more so than what we saw. So i I'll just say I had a two on it. Sue me, whatever.
00:20:02
Speaker
um go and i was like so so I would have liked to see, like I said, without the resolution, that really kills it for me and not really seeing what happens with Jess. Like I said, it's just a super downer for me. I i was kind of pissed about that, you know that I didn't see. you know there's There's no action to that, past her laying in the bed and at the end of the film, I'm just like, well, what the hell, man? What the hell? Yeah, I feel a little cheated on that. So, two.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But could you not maybe infer that she like, she isn't like there is no resolve to her because Billy wins in the end. And so like they're tethered so much that we see that Peter, you know, she murders Peter or whatever, but since Billy wins that she probably loses ultimately.
00:20:54
Speaker
i i That ending is a masterpiece for different reasons that I was going to touch on in the direction. I yeah yeah differently i love that ending, but I do agree. it kind of it It's not a true ending. It leaves the story very open ended. I mean, that's why I docked one point. Jonathan was more dissatisfied.
00:21:18
Speaker
Buy it. I can see myself maybe going to it a three with it instead. I mean, yes, yes, that's a good point. So maybe a three would be appropriate. But I was just kind of like, ah what the hell? Yeah. No, i get I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.
00:21:35
Speaker
I think what I have to say kind of almost goes into the acting because okay I have it going in the background right now and they were actually just, I was just actually the scene where she's telling him that she's pregnant. So we'll go back to that part and the acting part. but okay I always see the end of Jess's story as when like that final image of him bloody in her lap. like That's where Jess's arc ends. And then the rest of it is sort of like a little epilogue that just happens to be Jess ends up dead after all, and it never mattered at all. I consider her having gone full circle.
00:22:14
Speaker
in that, base is it the basement, right? yeah yeah yeah In the basement, him bloody, like that's her ending. um And then the rest of it is just kind of for a fun scare. And it's an excellent scare, but. yeah It's so good, yeah. Yeah, I feel like Jess gets,
00:22:30
Speaker
Like from where she, cause she starts out very, like if you're watching that scene, she starts out very meek. She cannot look you in the eye. And it doesn't seem like she, it seems like this is a relationship that has been falling apart for a while and he has a tendency to get a little intense, maybe violent. Like she's expecting him to to to flip out.
00:22:51
Speaker
And she's not looking at him in her body language. And by the end, she has no problem looking him in the eye and being and like, no, this is not how this is going to go. And then we have her killing him in the end. um It's there. It's not tied up in a bow. But for me, Bloody Peter, across her lap, whether he deserved to be dead or not, which he probably didn't, but, you know.
00:23:17
Speaker
i That's an interesting perspective on that being the end of her story. I didn't end the rest being an epilogue. I never really watched it like that, but that makes perfect sense. like If it were a book,
00:23:33
Speaker
it would end with the police discovering her in the basement and then there would be that just a couple pages after. So that that's a very good point. So I don't know, I gave character a five, but i I think when I watch these movies, I think about character a little different. I mean, I know you you kind of think more about the arc. And i I just think more about kind of the depth of each character and then how like dynamic they can be. And I think a lot of the sorority girls have like a rich personality. And I don't know. I think there is just a lot of depth to a lot of them. Like Barbara, mean I don't know. She's just the drunk, but she's kind of clever and witty. And you can tell she's got an interesting relationship with her mother. And I don't know. so
00:24:17
Speaker
I think each of these characters are distinct in who they are. And I think for a slasher, we don't really ever see that. I mean, there's like three or four tropes that, especially women, are going to be in a slasher. And here, there's so much more, which I appreciate. And so and I remember all their names. And this might be because I've seen a movie so many times. But I just feel like they're people and not just i don't know No, that's a very good point. And what you said exactly about remembering their names is exactly what I was thinking. Like I can't remember any of the characters, even the main character from 2019. I couldn't tell you what her name was, but I know Jess and I know Barb and I know Phil. I know those. I know Claire's the first to go missing.
00:25:04
Speaker
I, Peter, sometimes can remember his name, so on, but I remember these girls and I remember Mrs. Mack. They all have distinct personalities. That's a very good point. Before we jump into the next category, I want to tell you a little bit about Zemcaster.
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00:25:22
Speaker
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Speaker
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00:26:52
Speaker
I want you to have the same easy experiences I do for all of my podcasting and content needs. It's time to share your story. So let's dive in to the next category.
00:27:05
Speaker
So onto music and sound design.
Sound Design Revisited
00:27:11
Speaker
i This is a tough one because I think this has far less to do with the music and more to do with the sound design.
00:27:20
Speaker
And yeah this movie is a perfect example of why I lump those two into a single category, this and paranormal activity. ah Because there's almost no music in this movie. Almost none.
00:27:35
Speaker
And it's amazing, and i it is one of those things that I watch this with my sister and my wife, and I was worried my sister would find it boring because there's no music to like tell you something is about to happen or to hook you and pull you in. it's There's maybe like music in 10% of this film, and that's not counting the carolers and the opening Christmas hymn that's at the very beginning.
00:28:03
Speaker
And I love it because it makes it, it adds to that voyeuristic feel of the movie. But that is the part that I come in and this gets all the praise for sound design. Because when we are in first person shots, we hear Billy breathing.
00:28:23
Speaker
And it's so uncomfortable and it is so good. And you hear him breathing to himself or talking to himself or singing to himself. And it's chilling. And the scene where he throws a temper tantrum in the attic yeah and is just like shrieking.
00:28:51
Speaker
are
00:29:05
Speaker
i without I could close my eyes and have goosebumps from the sound design on that or the sound design on the phone calls where there's multiple voices coming through.
00:29:23
Speaker
flash a
00:29:31
Speaker
It's expanded his act. Could that be one person? No Claire, that's the Mormon Tabernacle Choir doing their annual obscene phone call. is I get goosebumps every time and we mentioned they're vulgar and disgusting and
00:29:58
Speaker
I'm amazed quite honestly that the 2006 R rated one as extreme as it was Didn't manage to have a single phone call that affected me quite as much as any of the ones from this movie 74 gave me far more goosebumps and like I can't believe they said that in a movie that 2006 did so it's The phone calls are fantastic. The sound design on all of it, I, I think it's silent. I mean, it's clearly silent on purpose and it makes me kind of feel like I'm there. And I think that's what I like about it. I don't have a music. I don't have music telling me there's a jump scare coming or I don't have music. This movie doesn't even really have music for jump scares. It has sound and it's so good. I,
00:30:58
Speaker
I love it. I did, I don't know why I gave it a four. I gave it a four on music and sound design because there is that kind of music-ish stuff that's more like just sound. And I don't know that I, it doesn't phase me either here or there, but it's great throughout the movie.
00:31:23
Speaker
So yeah, sound design is definitely what shines through in this film. I think looking in the, when I looked at the credits last night, there was only like two actual Christmas songs in the whole film, but there's a lot of open natural sound. You know, you hear house sounds. You don't hear a list of stuff when it when's when there's quiet and there's no one around, you hear sounds that you would hear in a big old house kinda, you know? But the way that you sound in other ways also, like the scene where no they're out doing the search for Claire and they find the body of that dead girl,
00:31:53
Speaker
And Mr. Harrison standing there and the girl's mother comes up when she screams. You don't hear the scream though. You hear the transition with the phone ringing to the next scene. I was like, that's awesome. I love that. That was so good. It was such a good part there. And then just, you know, a lot of what you hear soundtrack wise as far as a score.
00:32:13
Speaker
you know you don't get much music which i wish there had been a little more music involved but it's okay for what it was that piano scene do with peter at the conservatory was rough and like i was saying that was too long of a scene they should have cut that down a little bit more ah for sure but like like the tension that you had with the piano and with his situation, it kind of led to what you feel throughout the rest of the score, because even though there's not a lot of music, in a lot of those parts where it gets kind of tense, you've got a lot of like those muted piano kind of string pulling going on or like harp, whatever it is, it's kind of a muted tone, but it sounds like a piano. And it kind of fits that theme for sound with Peter and his thing that I thought was really, really good.
00:32:57
Speaker
But like I said, still kind of empty some parts, but the way that you sound as those parts and like with the attic where you're talking about Billy freaking out and everything, that was pretty tense. So overall, but because of so much lack of the more music with it, I kind of gave it a three. Although I feel like maybe I should have gone on with a four, though. Like, I hear a four. I'll go adjust. I'll give it a five. Yeah, yeah, yeah let's give it a four.
Killer's Enigma and Giallo Influence
00:33:25
Speaker
stage four this is four
00:33:28
Speaker
Well, Jonathan, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off, but you brought up what I was going to say is this the strings that we hear for like Billy's theme, those are the someone running their fingers along the back of a piano. Yeah. that's That's what the sound is. And then so you have from one angle, Peter's playing the front of the piano and Billy's theme is kind of the back of the piano. And so it kind of harkens to that, that parallel we see the whole time.
00:33:51
Speaker
They're two sides of the same coin. Two sides of the same coin. like I like it. I didn't even think of that. I think they also use the same kind of piano sound in Weezer's Sweater Song, which is cool. I like to think that this movie maybe inspired the Blue Album to some degree. and But we'll talk about that and its influence. But yeah, I mean, the sounds are really punchy. I mean, one one scene in particular that I thought was just like awesome and terrifying is when ah Billy's chasing Jess and she like goes into the basement it's trying to lock the door and Billy's like screaming and like bashing on the door. ah The sound is amazing there. But um yeah I gave it I gave it a five, I think.
00:34:35
Speaker
Um, I gave it a five because the sound design is so fantastic. That scene in particular with Jess on one side of the door and Billy on the other side of the door is terrifying. And it's the banging and the noises he's making. And it's just everything, it just, it just works so perfectly. Everything is almost silent most of the time. And then bam, as soon as something scary is going to happen, everything gets really loud and it's done in a really good way and not a bad way. Like some movies do it. Some movies just just throw sounds at you just to do it. This one has purpose and.
00:35:04
Speaker
all of them just it just sounds kind of wrong in some way like the piano like like making the string noise doing it that way with the piano that's that just doesn't sound right so it helps it's kind of off and it helps put you in that sort of off kilter sort of creeped out mood and i just i just love it one thing that i do like about the 2006 one may be better is all of like the christmas themed music and sounds and stuff yes I did miss some of that. I know we have the the carol scene, which the caroling scene, which I love in this movie. And I think it starts with Silent Night or s Silent Night somewhere yeah here. um But yeah, I do. Yeah, it's ah you're right.
00:35:45
Speaker
um But the 2006 one did a really good job with making it sound like Christmas as well as like bloody massacre Yes, I agree with that. I do think this one Used the Christmas backdrop and it sets very well. So while we didn't have the music like the 2006 I agree i kind I love the atmosphere on the 2006 for fun this one I noticed there are like
00:36:11
Speaker
shots where we are looking through the wreath at Jess or something. So the Christmas is pervasive, unlike the 2019 where I felt like we didn't really get much of the Christmas focus at all. ah Yeah, I didn't know that about the piano being the strings in the back, but now that you say that, that makes perfect sense. And that parallel just added a new level of like, I want to, I want to change my score to a five.
00:36:40
Speaker
but We appear on one side, Billy on the other, but that brings me Billy. We are we glossed over Billy in character. We need to talk about Billy because 2006 gave us Billy's backstory. I mentioned that 2006 was Billy's movie. This movie tells us nothing about Billy.
00:37:08
Speaker
and I love it. I think he's far more terrifying knowing nothing about him. Those phone calls, it's clear there's some kind of psychotic break at some point. And Agnes,
00:37:27
Speaker
who is that to Billy? Is it, don't the voices say his sister at one point? Well, you got three different voices that are in there. Bob Clark, the director himself, was actually one of the phone voices, as well as one of the the prowler shadows in the film. ah Him, Nick Mancuso, and Anne Sweeney, you know, were all uncredited for this, unfortunately. But they were the blend of those different voices, um you know, that were creeping everybody out through those calls. And like when they started asking about Agnes, you know, the
00:38:01
Speaker
Where did you put Agnes, Billy? And it's like, what the hell are you talking about? You know, which, you know, really makes you think like they and when they made the 2006 version, they were really, really trying to fill some story and get almost like it's a almost like their version was a sequel and not just a remake necessarily to the original. the It's interesting that you mentioned that because as I was watching in 2006,
00:38:23
Speaker
It had a lot of the requel vibes of, hey, Billy is returning to this house. It's just in 2006, it was previously his house, not the sorority that he murdered a bunch of people at 50 years before. Or I guess in 2006, it would have been 30. This is actually the 50th year anniversary. this Is it? Yeah, I think December of this year, it'll be 50 years. Nice. Wow.
00:38:51
Speaker
ah But yeah, I think Billy is a far more interesting character in this film because we know nothing about him. Yes, are you I love that. I love not having all the answers. it's It leaves more to the imagination. And 2006 gave us a little bit too much.
00:39:14
Speaker
Still, still we give a lot so yeah still a very entertaining film. But like we said, 2006 kind of set Billy up to be the next Jason or whatever, and then we didn't get those movies. This one, it kind of set up for a sequel that never happened, but on it, I'm glad it didn't, to be honest. But I think he's just far more terrifying being the enigma that he is.
00:39:41
Speaker
And I did have a question because I've seen this movie a dozen times and I don't know if I just missed the line and happened to like, I don't know, tune out for a second. The girl that's murdered. Is it Billy, the high school girl that they mentioned being murdered?
00:40:02
Speaker
i don't think they ever confirm that there's no mention of that and then there was also mentioned at the beginning of the movie oh there was a girl who was you know raped last week and then bar was kind of a bitch he's like oh you can't rape a townie it's like yeah that was kind of funny shit thing to say dude so I do think In my head, you feel though you fill those gaps in. Again, it's a it's show not tell. They're not telling us that Billy did these things. But at the beginning of the movie, we see Billy enter the house. And these other things happened before he entered the house. So it's a very logical step. And part of me was like, is this, um,
00:40:51
Speaker
all my research of serial killers where they do the same ritual over and over again because of something that happened to them. And so was Agnes that high school girl to Billy's mind? I don't know. I'm filling in gaps in the movie, but I i was just curious. I like to assume everything that's mentioned was Billy.
00:41:12
Speaker
There's apparently a novelization of this movie that came out and kind of flushes out some of the characters it says and gives a little more, I guess, context to the property and backstory and stuff. So I don't know if anything would be in there or if Bob Clark ever endorsed anything like that. But yeah, I bet that is a pretty penny on eBay.
00:41:40
Speaker
Probably. I wonder if that's on Kindle. All right. So let's talk about the editing and special effects.
Editing Techniques and Visual Storytelling
00:41:49
Speaker
I gave, well, I love the editing in this movie. And unlike the 2006 where we talked about the editing and that was quick and snappy and we cut from a kill really quickly so that we couldn't linger on
00:42:11
Speaker
you know the effects of it all. This movie lingers and we sit there for a while on a lot of things and I love that because it just slowly gets under your skin and I love some of the slow Like, yeah, you guys mentioned some scenes go on a little longer. I actually like the recital because it shows he mentions to Jess how important the recital is to him. And then we just see him sweating under the pressure of it through that scene. But the editing.
00:42:54
Speaker
The five that is this editing is perfectly captured in Barb's murder. So I know we were going to talk about the carolers. I o love the fact that Barb is being stabbed to death with a unicorn while carolers are singing come let us adore him at the door. And we are cutting back and forth between Barb getting stabbed in one, probably no, it's the most violent scene in the film. And
00:43:30
Speaker
we see like as the last stab is happening and Barb is like reaching her bloody hand out Jess is clapping at the door and I'm That is so good, the way they cut that together with the carolers doing this happy song, this Christmas joyous thing that, yeah, drives people crazy, but joyous Christmas thing happening. Well, one of the most brutal murders in the film is also going on. Cut with that.
00:44:05
Speaker
It's so good. I love that scene more every time I watch it. And on honestly, watching it for this is when I caught that, like, as she's dying, Jess is smiling and clapping at the door. And there's something chilling about that because you realize Jess has no idea, obviously. And this is happening a floor above them as children stand at the door.
00:44:35
Speaker
Barb is being massacred. i It's so good. We also get some of those shots of like the eyeball which 2006 took that and ran with it and made it like the theme of the film. oh But we get a couple shots of him like peeking through the door jams or whatever. I i love the editing on this film. I think it does
00:45:02
Speaker
I would say, you know, the first couple of watches, I did think there was a pacing issue. I did think it was kind of boring at the beginning. On repeated watches, I wouldn't take anything out if I'm honest. I love all of it for different reasons and think it adds layers to the story.
00:45:19
Speaker
One of the things that you did not touch on, though, is that much like Texas Chainsaw Massacre or Psycho, you don't see actually a lot of what is going on. You're not seeing skin ripping apart. We're not seeing organs. We're not seeing that kind of thing. When Ms. Mac dies, it's First, it's a point of view of the hook coming into her face, and all we see is her face and the camera swing, and then we see her legs go up into the attic, and that's about it. Everything else is done with sound design, and it's just trickery. Barb is on my screen dying right now. I'm not seeing much. There's blood, and it is the the first like blow where you see Barb. That's more intense than with Ms. Mac, but it has the same thing going on. You're not seeing a whole lot.
00:46:07
Speaker
But it's incredibly effective. Yes. And it's much scarier than the first one where it was throwing up because of skin Christmas cookies. Right. That is not. I don't remember who said that quote, but it's what we imagine will always be worse than what we can see. Exactly. And yeah, this movie capitalizes on that.
00:46:34
Speaker
But I think it does a good job because eventually we do start seeing some things like Barbara's murder is, you know, I mean, it's not the most gory thing we've ever seen, but it's the most like direct and hands on murder we see in the movie. But it's it kind of unwinds or maybe unwraps like it. The first murder is I don't know, they get like progressively more and more disturbing and revealing and um I don't know. We're kind of like teased by it until the end. And then you you see a throat cut. And you see Barbara get killed and all that. And you start seeing Mrs. Mack hanging in the background. So it just starts revealing more and more to you as we get closer to the end. So I think that's pretty cool. OK. I really liked how they used shadows and silhouettes to to show stuff where you don't really actually see Billy. you know I thought that was really good use of but of wheel the sets and lighting.
00:47:26
Speaker
um although there's like wisdom comes to editing though that like one scene where john's like lieutenant fuller john saxon is like on the way to the sorority house they're in a hurry it's an emergency did you see the cars coming down the down the street in the town it's like i know it's winter and all but like dude it's an emergency you guys are going pretty slow for an emergency and that scene was so drawn out just to get them all the way from down here all the way back to the river was like dude you could like shorten that up take him like 20 seconds off of that maybe whatever they forgot to speed that up and post No, I guess so. Geez, man, it was kind of weak. But other than that, I mean, you don't really get much of the way the spectral effects, except with that bright red paint for the blood, you know, and you see a throat slash. I was kind of hoping that when Ms. Mack died, like when you see her feet coming up in the attic, there would have been maybe some blood drip from the hook in her face, maybe, something to kind of give a little more presence. But I was kind of disappointed that there wasn't more with that. But it's OK. It still works really well. And man, they they sure make a lot of use out of Claire's dead body.
00:48:24
Speaker
the whole thing, man. Like you always see those scenes going back to her, you know, especially that part where Billy's like, you know, kind of and he's rocking her back and forth. He's got her posed with the the baby doll in her arms. Oh, creepy. Super freaking creepy. d Oh, my God. creepy But, man, just how they kept panning back to her, back to her, back to her throughout everything, even at like the end of the movie. Like, there's that one scene where Mr. Harrison's gonna take Ms. Mack, you know, to drop her off wherever where he goes, where he's gonna go look for her daughter. And you see where it's like zoomed, you see looking out the window, you see them getting in the car and then it pans back into the attic.
00:49:00
Speaker
and there's Claire again. and yeah And then at the very end, as you know, it's it's back to that attic window, you see Claire and it pans out to the house, you know, kind of really good use of space with that pan action. But then there is the scene where everyone's getting together for the search at the park. And I think they could have maybe tightened up that shot a bit. I think it was a little too far out. You know, especially kind of grainy it was looking, I think it would have been better if they just kind of brought that in a little more. um what But yeah.
00:49:27
Speaker
What panning shots amazing is when they when they first answer the phone call and it's like zooms in and like slow pans across every girl's face as they're listening to Billy, you know, talk about their genitals and stuff. Yep. Oh, God. Oh, I also believe it. Let me take it. Yeah. and like two Calm down. Barbara, we don't need we don't need to take it off a YouTube. Don't repeat the call. I'm not going to go that far, dude. I'm not going to go that far.
00:49:54
Speaker
Um, I think the sequence where they're tracking him, the phone too is edited really well and super tight and tense. And I love this and yeah like that. And you see the dude kind of like running between the, I don't know what he's actually doing. I don't know how you trace a phone call in the 70. Well, I don't know how you do it now. Well, he said it was a mechanical process, so he's checking the ticks where it, you know, whatever registers. I don't know. It's weird. And I find that fascinating as a suspenseful scene. I'm watching him run through all these different phone lines and I'm like, that's how i was that's crazy. Now he tells him, like, you got to keep on in line as long as you can, because it's unfortunate. It's a mechanical process. Like, yeah, that sounds shitty you have to deal with. But OK, man, you talked about the panning scenes. They the one.
00:50:38
Speaker
which I'm going to talk about panning when we get to directing. But that's one of the things I love about this film is that one of watching her dad get in the car to go find her, but her dead body is like looking out the window at her, at him.
00:50:56
Speaker
is like, that's emotional. It's chilling. It's horrifying. It checks so many boxes in that one panning shot. And so does that final shot where we pan out from the window to see the house. And what do you hear as credits roll? What do you hear? The phone ringing. It's so good. From inside the house.
00:51:26
Speaker
All right, so before I go too hard on that, so I gave the editing a five. I think you guys all gave your scores. Onto the script.
Script Realism and Acting
00:51:39
Speaker
I have no complaints about this script. I gave the script a five. as As we kind of said, to be able to pull off the depth of the storytelling,
00:51:52
Speaker
As well as the horror, we have humor with Mrs. Mack, who I just love. ah We have the Barb being brash and outspoken, sharp wit. We have Lieutenant Ken Fuller, who, unlike the 2019, we mentioned, every guy in 2019 sucks.
00:52:15
Speaker
Lieutenant Ken Fuller is out here trying to help. He's good male representation in the film. So it's not all men are bad. It's showing us these nice parallels. And then we have some good male characters. And I love John Saxon as Lieutenant Ken Fuller. ah Every time we watch it with my wife, I call him 1970s Zac Efron.
00:52:42
Speaker
you have to explain that for he I'm going to flash up a picture of the two of them side by side. He looks like 1970s Zac Efron.
00:52:54
Speaker
as oh but maybe Maybe like modern Zac Efron facial structure where he got the stuff done. He's got like a box of your face now. Yeah, post-surgery. But he's definitely like, what is Zac Efron as like 38, maybe 40 years old in the 70s? You're picturing Lieutenant Ken Fuller right now. So yeah, I forget where I was coming with that. But oh, he's a good male character in the film. And then our
00:53:27
Speaker
You have Phil, who is Phyllis, who is actually the house mom in the 2006 movie. Yep, but she's that kind-hearted girl. She's the only girl we actually see break down in tears with everything that's going on. She becomes overwhelmed in a scene as and is just worried about her friends. And I love, you mentioned the shot of all of the girl's faces during that phone call. And if you look at Claire's face, she is petrified by that phone call and you see it on her face. And there's just so much attention to detail throughout from setting up Peter as our red herring to leaving this obscure nature to ah Billy, giving us just enough
00:54:23
Speaker
whatever was written in those phone calls is some of the most chilling content I've seen in film. And the way that opening one is intensely graphic and sexual in nature, but the final line of it, when ah Barb kind of stick your tongue in a light socket, that'll give you a charge.
00:54:47
Speaker
and then doesn't he wrap it up with, I'm going to kill you? yeah And then click. yeah It's goosebumps. It's so good. So script is a five for me.
00:54:58
Speaker
I mean, you can tell, like, That's what I thought exactly when that happened. yeah we credited it They credited the movie When a Stranger Calls, but The When a Stranger Calls also does It's Coming from Inside the House. That one lifts it with the babysitter directly from the urban legend. yeah This came first, but obviously it's the same thing. Yes. They credited When a Stranger Calls constantly during the promotion of the film, but black christmas When a Stranger Calls owes a lot to Black Christmas in that respect, and it's not this is a better movie. so I hate that movie so much. um When a Stranger Calls, it the only good part is like the beginning. Yes. and this When I was a little younger, I liked the remake a lot, like the 2005 or 2006 remake kind of.
00:55:52
Speaker
But yeah and I don't ever want to rewatch that, so it's probably not great. But I posted this on Instagram maybe a couple months ago, but I tried to rewatch or I rewatched the original for the first time and I didn't like it.
00:56:06
Speaker
It's been on my list. I haven't I i watched the remake when it came out because I was in high school ah with it was like at a party and everybody was freaked out because you know, but I remember liking it then. But I don't know if I'll ever revisit that. I do want to see the original. But even I've heard the original is only good for like 30 minutes and then it's I would agree.
00:56:31
Speaker
Uh, script, I gave it a four. Um, I liked a lot of the dialogue that was in there, uh, especially like kind of the shit with like Barb being and kind of a smart ass at the police station talking about like yeah the the new exchange number for Felicia. And Sergeant Nash is such a goober man. Like, Oh.
00:56:51
Speaker
That guy, i i I couldn't with that dude, but... Gouver's a great word for it. Yeah, yeah. He just like that hapless fool that works at the police station. But God, man, like one of the things, though, that I really like, though, is like how when Peter and Jess are talking about and he's talking about how she's just treating it like having the work removed and then bringing that back later in the dialogue with Billy with the the creepy phone calls. I thought it was really great because that just makes it super creepy. She's like, how does he does? It makes her think that it is Peter, even though it really is, you know, you know, I thought it was super sweet. That's a perfect.
00:57:28
Speaker
use of a red herring moment. It's so good because who said that? Peter. But then you think back, where did he say that? In the house where Billy could have heard it and she doesn't know that there's somebody living in the attic like that's I'm so good. I love that. Just that one little line said twice is so good. We wrapping up the script then. Oh, yeah, I get it.
00:57:58
Speaker
Sorry, I'm trying to read my handwriting, and I can't, and I'm mad about it. There's a lot of good one-liners in the film. There are. There's a lot of that. Yeah, it's just, it's incredibly clever, funny. I think it's really realistic. I mean, for 1974, and we brought up a little bit the Texas Janssen massacre, which came out two months before this movie. So they're kind of, oh they are in the same holiday season, sort of, which the Texas Janssen massacre is a whole different beast. But the dialogue and script of that movie is, in my opinion, so much are so inferior to this in terms of just how yes nat i mean this one's just seamless and natural. and it it comes with The dialogue me it could be had with anybody. I don't know. it It doesn't seem like very forced or anything, which I appreciate.
00:58:44
Speaker
I think what you said back with the characters, how each of them have very unique personalities, I think that's executed so well because of the script. They each have very unique ways of talking and reacting to the situation that the script acknowledges instead of writing from one, everybody's going to react the same way or have the same cadence and, you know, inflection or however they're going to speak.
00:59:14
Speaker
Each of them has very different ways of speaking, from Margot, Kidder, Barb being brash that's displayed in the script. We're not told she's brash by her friends. It's clear. We see it. Or Phyllis, like I said, she's the only character we see break down and cry. She's worried about her friends. And Jess is the strong-willed, resourceful one. And that's displayed so well through the dialogue, through the script. It's just so tight and fine-tuned.
00:59:47
Speaker
I love it. Let's talk about the acting then. Yeah. OK, John, you go first. Dude, so compared to the other two films, everything felt more natural, like how you would imagine like actual yeah sorority life being, especially for the times, you know,
01:00:08
Speaker
um and how women were becoming more free and more loose with themselves and like you know and how they do but what you wouldn't normally see behind the scenes what you you would think typically would be they they're being more like you would see the guys are being in a story house with drinking the swearing crazy posters and all this stuff and like they all just had a good mesh even with their own distinct personalities and everything they just just was such a natural kind of interaction it's felt like they had ah throughout the film. ah I really like Miss Mac, is like you were saying earlier, Tim, she's she's kind of the comedy of the whole thing, you know, she's like the queen of vaudeville as it were. um Just her being like the whole house mom, but goofy, but then like, oh god, I gotta put up with these bitches kind of thing, like when she's kind of turned away from them kind of deal. And then like always try and like search out those hidden bottles of booze.
01:00:53
Speaker
You know, like, yeah, well, she's in that one room. She's going through the books and in the bookcase. Like, oh, B for booze, hidden bottle. She's going to have to brush her teeth out of the water, taking the toilet, another bottle of booze, a little mouth rinse with it, you know, digging in the closet in the bottle. Son of a bitch, you know.
01:01:09
Speaker
She was she was a lot of fun. She's a good character, even like interacting with Mr. Harrison when they're looking for Claire. And she's like trying to hide the peace poster with the two naked people on it from him. You know, though they're such good girls. She just goes like, you know, and every time she kind of slips up, doesn't know he's there. She's like, oh, you're doing such a good thing by helping me and taking me somewhere. You're doing so good. You know, like I've seen down because I'm just dying that whole time as she like.
01:01:33
Speaker
Well, and we slow pan over that poster of the old lady and it ends with her. like Yeah, he's just looking like, what the hell is this? So i she was like my favorite character when it came to acting. Barb, Margot Kidderman, like she was definitely the the kind of the butthole one, but she was seemed like she was like really like the attention seeking person in the group.
01:01:54
Speaker
you know, that really kind of stood out, you know, that attention seeking with how she like was, you know, treating the guy, the officer NASA, Sergeant Nash, the police station, and how she like acted with the kids, you know, her and shitty Santa, as it was I like to call him, you know, sitting there swearing in front of the kids and everything, just being total jackasses. It's like, Oh man, what the hell is going on? It's so funny.
01:02:15
Speaker
There's a lot, so many good little moments like that where you're like, dude, this is like, that's like the funnest, the funnest part of the whole film in terms of just, you know, comedy, but Phyllis um and Jess and everything and like interacting with the even with the townies when the guys come to the door, you get a sense of like, yeah, those dudes are some straight up goofy townies and they're like, ooh, college girls, you know, they just, they were in that role so well. Even if they were, they're like minor bit parts and Peter,
01:02:44
Speaker
Definitely, I think I liked his acting a lot too because he definitely came along as like that stressed creeper, especially after the whole incident, like him trying to like talk to Jess at the house. um He's like, Oh, you know, I was waiting out. He was getting cold. I was asleep upstairs, you know, whatever. And then he's just still getting all kind of like.
01:03:02
Speaker
delusional about what he thinks he's gonna do, that he's gonna take charge of the situation, here's what's gonna happen. And she's just like, hell no, ah I'm gonna do my thing still. Like, this is not gonna happen. Like the way they interacted with those scenes I thought was really good. um ah So I gave it a four. I love his little break when he just destroys the piano at the concert hall. Yeah. It's that little scene, i something about that.
01:03:30
Speaker
But yeah, you mentioned, there's a ton of good lines that I could've talked about during Scripped. I don't know why I didn't. This movie's filled with like, if you're not paying attention, you're gonna miss it. But my favorite line from Mrs. Mack was when she's wearing that nightgown the girls gave her, and she looks in the mirror. I think it's after taking a swig of the whiskey from the toilet.
01:03:52
Speaker
i
01:03:56
Speaker
Jesus, I wouldn't wear this, but I hope I live her.
01:04:01
Speaker
funny. She is so funny. And I don't have a lot of the one liners though. She has like the, she had the most one liners throughout the whole thing. Yeah. He speaking of professional virgins, here we have the queen of vaudeville. Yep. Uh, she's, she's great. Uh, yeah. Margo Kidder kills it as the drunk sorority sister in this film. She is so good that I almost did not recognize her as Lois Lane. She's so drastically different from Superman just a couple years later. But also, I do think she's struggled with alcohol alcoholism most of her life. I was going to say, it's probably one of the most accurate depictions of like an actor like a drunk person on screen, and you can tell that she probably has a lot of experience being drunk.
01:04:53
Speaker
Yeah, or she might have been. Yeah, it's one of those potential. But she's so good. Jess, who is played by Olivia Hussey, who is in the ah Romeo and Juliet.
01:05:08
Speaker
that's where i've That's where I knew her from originally, which was the first thing I saw her in. Yeah. She's fantastic in this film. And I think she, I mean, it goes with the character arc. She grows. But the scene, if I were to pick one scene in this film that depicted five out of five acting, it is The scene that I put at the opening of the episode when she gets the phone call that the call is coming from inside the house.
Masterful Direction and Sustained Tension
01:05:37
Speaker
And what we didn't see in the intro to this episode because it was like two minutes if I didn't cut everything.
01:05:43
Speaker
um is after she drops the phone and walks away from the police officer, she's so fixated on saving her friends, but following what the officer says that she stands at the door and screams her friend's name.
01:06:29
Speaker
Chills every time. It's so good. I am truly convinced that this girl is terrified every time I watch it. It's not Scream Queen. It's a true performance of pure terror and it is so good. It's five out of five on acting. I mean, we get the levels from her throughout the film, but everybody else delivers from Phil being the kindhearted one and so on. I have zero complaints in the acting department.
01:07:05
Speaker
Yeah, I think the best scene, um, the best display of acting it also involves Jess. I think it's when her and Peter are talking at the house and they're having that kind of heart to heart. And she talks about like wanting to fulfill her dreams and everything like that. and There might be like a fire going on or something in the background, but I think it's a really good sequence between the two. And I also think, uh, I don't know the guy who plays Peter's name off the top of my head, but I think he was really good. and kira bulaa I wouldn't have known how to say it even if I looked it up. I've probably said a shitty helmet haircut, though. Oh my God. ah They all looked at this. All the men had the same hair, except Claire's dad. But um he reminds me, and I guess this is maybe character, but Peter reminds me a lot of Billy Loomis, actually. I think he has Scream 1 just in terms of being kind of, I guess, the main guys or the main girl's got a boyfriend. but
01:07:58
Speaker
I don't know. He's always shady. Yeah. And just always you think he might be the killer, but then he kind of gaslights the girl into convincing her that, you know, he's actually good for, but just Billy's actually the killer, but I don't know.
01:08:13
Speaker
Peter reminds me of guys my friends have dated. so He nails that. like like You see your friend with that guy and then you pull her aside and you're like, are you sure you're okay? Are you sure this is a good idea? like I don't step in on my friends, but if I've seen this guy before and those are the only times I ever say something without being asked. And he nails it. He he made my skin crawl just as much as Billy did.
01:08:38
Speaker
in some of those scenes, the way that he the way that he talks to her. um like There's nothing wrong with his opinion, but the way that he delivers it, oh, that's terrifying. And it makes you understand why Jess is making the decision she is making. I want to make you regret it. Yeah. yeah He's threatening her. He's being violent. Even if nobody else is in the room, it's not normal to beat up a piano.
01:09:02
Speaker
Like that's, that's there the the dude is unhinged and it's great. And that actor is great in that role. um And then Barb, in a similar way, reminds me of friends that I have who have problems with their mom. um Maybe not necessarily the drinking, but I got the impression early on when she made the comment about her mom, like I can easily see, like I've seen this situation before where the mom pisses the girl off and she's like, I don't understand why, like in you're in your head, you're like, why does my mom fucking hate me?
01:09:32
Speaker
and then it becomes, it they spiral out. Like I've seen this happen to friends of mine. um So I don't think that Barb is just drunk and she's acting out and I think it's because of her mother. And or something just happened off screen with her mom. but toigy She calls her mom a real gold-plated whore. Which I don't know about that, I don't know. Another five-star line. well ah enough lovegger Another thing about Barb though is she blames herself for Claire's death the whole movie. like She opens up to that at the end when she breaks down because of that scene where Claire's really scared during the phone call and Barb internalizes what she said to Billy and blames herself, which I think is a whole other you know piece to the heavy drinking. well And they don't even even know that she's dead at that point.
01:10:21
Speaker
we have Towards the beginning of the film of one of the first calls, you know phllis or what was it claire Phyllis was like, Hey, you shouldn't antagonize him like that. Whoever's on the phone, you know, it's like, Oh shit. So she probably feels that way to that, you know, after her being told that and then disappearing like, Oh shit, what have I done?
01:10:36
Speaker
God, this movie's so good. And then Thomas Jackson was put on earth to play police lieutenants. Dude, I was about to say, he's he's been so typecast as a police officer, government agent, a military guy, like that's one of his mate or a cowboy. Those have been some of his like is is is this typical roles that he would play.
01:10:54
Speaker
Man, i love I love John Saxon though. I think he's still a pretty awesome dude. But like Peter though, man, that guy, like that delusional break, especially like when she's hiding in the basement and Peter's like trying to look in the window. Is that her? Is that her? o Talk to me. Talk to me. Talk to me. Talk to me. And then breaks in and like, Oh, what are you doing hiding back here? Oh, now I'm dead. Well, also the editing of that is perfect.
01:11:13
Speaker
Because we go from, we talked about in sound design, we go from Billy on the inside of the house, pounding on the basement door, unable to get in, and then Jess gets a second to breathe. And then Peter's outside on the door, like, oh, Jess, Jess, is that you? Why would he like red herring, editing everything perfect as to why would he look in the basement for her?
01:11:40
Speaker
and another misdirection. It's so good, so good. All right, so onto this is the direction. Mmm.
01:11:57
Speaker
i Get it, Tim. Get it. So good. i This is where I'm going to be incoherent because I didn't organize my thoughts on how good this direction is. Don't pull at me. Come on. Don't pull at me. I mean, i' I mentioned all of the stuff in the editing. Nothing cuts quickly in this film. And I love that. Like we have a scene that is so effective and so chilling of Billy
01:12:30
Speaker
rocking Claire's dead body holding a doll while Billy sings. And instead of being something crazy dramatic, like I mentioned in 2006, it's not shot like from the rafters. It's not shot from her feet. It is from Billy's perspective, just looking straight at her. As he sings a song,
01:12:56
Speaker
that is disturbing. ah if there's your rhyme yeah If you didn't catch it at the beginning, ah he's singing, it's in our little intro for this, the quote I pulled because it just got under my skin. ah He's singing a little baby bunting, daddy's got a hunting, gone to fetch a rabbit skin to wrap his baby Agnes in.
01:13:17
Speaker
And he's singing that as we just see her rock back and forth. But I mentioned the panning shot from Claire's dead body in the attic, watching her dad leave to go find her. And the multiple layers that single scene conveys in the way it's set up. Or the ending. Okay, so let's talk about the ending, the epilogue.
01:13:44
Speaker
Jess kills Peter. what That's what we see on screen. We assume he's dead. And then she goes into like a catatonic state and is in bed. And there are a couple shortcuts in this, but then for the most part we cut right back to the same shot. But the entire epilogue is nearly a continuous take. Like I said, there's a couple little second two or three in there but we're just in bed and we just slowly pan out as this conversation is happening and then we're standing in the hallway and we're watching people come in and out of the room we're watching people have this conversation and again it's that voyeuristic feel that this movie has done from the beginning
01:14:38
Speaker
but this is not Billy's perspective. This is you. I feel like it's me standing there watching this happening. There are people walking in front of me and this conversation's happening and then Claire's dad has a panic attack and gets taken to the hospital and everybody's like, oh, Jess is fine. Let's go. And they hated that. I hated that they just, why would you take her to the hospital? She's catatonic. Yeah, but they leave her in bed.
01:15:07
Speaker
I'm gonna i'm going to ignore those details of that. They leave your bed and then it slow pans. And where does it go first? Down the hallway. Barb's room. So it's a slow pan to Barb's room where we see blood on the mattress, sheets have been stripped, everything's gone. So we see the horror of the movie right there in that shot. And we just sit there for a second, soak it in.
01:15:37
Speaker
Take that in, live with it, all right? And then the camera, no cutting. Camera's just gonna pan down the hallway again. And we look at Claire's room and we see the opposite. We see the hope that this movie had, these girls had. We see Claire's packed bags to go home. And that just tugs at your heartstrings. So we have the horror in Barb's room.
01:16:04
Speaker
down to the hope and optimism in Claire's room, the packed bag sitting on her bed. And then we pan down the hallway further and up into the attic where we see Mrs. Mack hanging from something.
01:16:23
Speaker
We see Claire's dead body with the plastic with a shower. It looks like a shower curtain, but I think it's like a dress bag or something like that. but the direct cleaning Yeah, wrapped around her face. And we hear Billy singing. And there's a couple small cuts in that. But we see that and then it pans out to where we hear we see the whole house, a single police officer standing outside of it. And then the phone begins to ring again.
01:16:52
Speaker
And it's just so good. That whole final sequence is up there with some of my favorite things in all of horror.
Horror Legacy and Cultural Context
01:17:03
Speaker
That final sequence is up there with something Hitchcock would have done. It's so good. I love it. And I think there's just so many layers and details that we've already discussed throughout this film.
01:17:14
Speaker
film about you know showing Claire being petrified during that phone call to Margo having that effect. that's That's the director bringing all of this together in a stroke of genius. and let's what is like The other shocking thing, what is Bob Clark known for?
01:17:36
Speaker
yeah Yeah. A Christmas story. A Christmas christmas story. like That's probably his biggest film. And then the horror community knows Bob Clark made one of the greatest horror films to ever exist. So the direction's a five out of five for me. I also gave it a five out of five. I would like to point out that the entire time you were talking, it was playing. it's I'm at the end of the movie. So the whole time you were talking, in case anybody would like an an example of how long this scene plays, that's how long it was. It started right when you started talking and just ended.
01:18:13
Speaker
Nice. um mean They really do. Even even on Jess seeing her lay in the bed, she's on camera for a full minute just laying there. wait You're just waiting for something to happen. It's in no rush to get anywhere and I love it.
01:18:27
Speaker
and It doesn't need to be because it's it's just like you're waiting and you're waiting and then you're like, oh God, I'm going to be waiting forever. um it I don't know. But this one more than the others, it felt like the person who made it cared for it. They cared about what they were making. They wanted to make something good. i You don't see people directing movies like this right now.
01:18:49
Speaker
i don't know if I don't know if I'm not going to say any more, but because it can always be done again. But right now, I don't think we're so we don't see movies like this. This is not just a horror movie. This is a film like this. This goes into like it crosses the barrier. And um when we when we start playing around with the term elevated horror,
01:19:11
Speaker
which I think is dumb because horror has always been elevated. um Movies that do that don't really do this. they They use other tricks, but we're not seeing this kind of thing where it's just sort of, it's slow and it's scary. I think a lot of movies that do slow burn nowadays just go slow or they go slow for 85 minutes and then hit you in in the last five minutes. And I don't want to watch that. I want to watch something like this. Five out of five.
01:19:39
Speaker
Um, I gave it a four out of five, but I think this was me trying to find a place for my pacing stuff. And I didn't know if I was going to put it in, I don't know where I was going to put it. So I think my thought was to kind of, um, ding the direction for some of the pacing issues. But I mean, I think the movie is, has amazing cinematography. I think so much of the creative energy and ideas and stuff are there and amazing and groundbreaking for the time. And I don't know. I mean,
01:20:05
Speaker
It probably, I think with this one, I was just trying not to give it all five. So I tried to pick a few categories where I could take from it. Okay. I don't really have much to say on direction. I mean, you guys have pretty much said all, especially Tim. Um, but I did, I put it at a three, but after everything that's been said, I feel like changing it to a four. I feel like it's appropriate.
01:20:30
Speaker
That's all I really gotta say on it. I don't think I've said anything that would be involved with direction and other stuff that I've already talked about. Yeah, Jonathan, I got you bumped up to the floor there. Always happy to give this movie a couple more points. So the IT factor, this was, okay, this was actually where I was most critical of the film was the IT factor. Because as far as I know, it wasn't a big deal when it released. But the cult following,
01:20:59
Speaker
is insane as we are here today talking about a movie that is celebrating its 50th anniversary. And from 1974, we're talking about this film and how it changed the genre. I actually, I'm gonna change my score right now because I don't know if I remember this correctly. I'm trying to find the trivia real quick But basically, from what I have understood,
01:21:34
Speaker
Halloween would not have existed if it wasn't for this film. Are you talking about the story where it was going to be a sequel to Black Christmas? Well, I don't know. that And I don't know. But I can tell you just from a ah perspective of time and watching these movies like grow over the years, Halloween does not exist without this movie.
01:21:57
Speaker
yeah so i weigh that it is i think that's what i mean not as so much i know people say that like halloween is the spiritual sequel or so on to this film i don't see that so much but i don't think halloween as it is would have happened without this film just the entire backbone the i I don't know how to convey it, exactly. But like we said, you know, Psycho and Peeping Tom were kind of an introduction to the killer POV. But this paved the way for slashers as far as, hey, killer is in a house and he's going to eliminate everyone in the house. Halloween took that little different direction, not trapped in a house on, but
01:22:49
Speaker
it grew from there. And I think this is the foundation to what became the slasher craze really starting about eight years later and going nuts for most of the eighties until Jason took Manhattan and then we were done with it.
01:23:08
Speaker
ah rightfully so too, it deserved to end up to that movie. That was that was it. i You know, this this movie is foundational.
01:23:22
Speaker
So I'm not going to claim to know a lot about the history of horror films and who did what first, you know, and all that stuff, you know, I mean, I've seen a lot of stuff, but I don't really know much historically. So when it comes to like, it factor in cultural significance, I think about how you know it The film was made in 1974. You're coming off of you know Woodstock, Summer of Love, Free Love. And you know now we're getting to this point where you know feminism is becoming more of a well-known concept to a lot of people across the country. And so you're seeing these girls who are living more freely and
01:23:58
Speaker
um That's a big thing for women of that time, you know you because you the rise of feminism and self-control of your own body and you know the idea of abortion you know becoming more prevalent in that time, even as big as an issue as it's still now.
Scoring Cultural Significance
01:24:15
Speaker
um And then also the the idea of safety for women across the country. Because being in starting in the 70s, you had ten but people like Ted Bundy.
01:24:26
Speaker
you know, these serial killers, you know, and then left field was like two, three years after this movie came out, you had ah ah David Berkowitz, the son of Sam, you know, there are so many of these these women serial killers are coming up. So it kind of brings to focus the idea of safety for for women, especially young women in college, you know, these young adults. So I think that's kind of important, you know, versus the the whole impact when in the horror genre. So I give it a four.
01:24:54
Speaker
I love the way you look at that, like you truly take, so when I'm thinking of scoring and I'm looking at the ah cultural significance, I look at the cultural significance as like Is it on TikTok? You look at it as like, I guess literally like, are people on Instagram talking about it? That's what I, that's what I look at. You are literally looking at it as like the world at the time it was made. Did it reflect society? Did it impacts it? I love the way you look at it. You always have good perspective when it comes to the it factor. So I,
01:25:35
Speaker
Appreciate that.
Entertainment Ratings and Recommendations
01:25:36
Speaker
I try. That's why I love my scoring system. There are detractors, but I love it.
01:25:44
Speaker
All right, so let's talk about how entertained we are. Should we all just say it at the same time? Five out of five. 10 out of 10. Did you go to 10? 10. I already said the most. Nine. Yeah, I gave it a nine as well.
01:26:00
Speaker
All right, this movie. I would definitely be down to show this to people and be like, yeah, do you do you need to watch this film? i've sure this movie this I've showed this movie to so many of my friends and ah past lovers and whatever you want to call it. and I just want everybody to watch the movie. yeah Which is probably why they're of the past is because it usually ends at Black Christmas. but It's like, why are you making me watch this? I'm out of here. If they are in the past because of Black Christmas, they deserve to be in the past.
01:26:30
Speaker
just like like ah this was this was my one this this was This was my one night stand move though. I'd bring them home and show them like Christmas and it would just not work out. so That's how you get them to leave, make them put that on in the morning. Yeah.
01:26:47
Speaker
Oh, man, if I I'd probably if I had made my wife watch this while we were dating I don't I don't know how that would have went. I made her watch Lord of the Rings
Final Reflections and 2019 Comparison
01:26:56
Speaker
instead. So oh ah So the overall Our final scores, let's jump into final scores final thoughts Wrap up your conclusion to the movie and whatever you would like to say about it ah Because of the scores I kind of want Ivy to go first.
01:27:21
Speaker
Putting you on the spot. I don't remember what I said my total was. Whatever the highest you can get is my total. I love it. I'm highly entertained. And as good as I've actually watched this twice, I watch this not for the podcast purposes, right after I watched 2019. And sitting through 2019 is worth it if I get to watch this. okay If that makes sense.
01:27:46
Speaker
Oh, I don't know if you can say that. That's an interesting thought. If I had to watch the 2019 one every time I wanted to watch this movie, I think I would probably do it too though. So I think it says a lot about the movie.
Horror Tropes and Genre Impact
01:28:01
Speaker
Yeah, maybe.
01:28:05
Speaker
Now I'm starting to question if I like it that much.
01:28:10
Speaker
I think 2019 this is a treat afterwards. 2019 is a punishment that goes along with this. That's right. That's right. Yeah. So let's see. Do you know something I probably should have mentioned also? is probably Maybe it's part of the it factor maybe. I don't know. But um I feel like This is maybe like one of the foundations for one of those the horror film tropes of ah the main character doing the stupid thing instead of the smart thing. like ah The Sergeant Nash tells her to go out of the house, but she decides to freak out, make a lot of noise, and then go upstairs to a place where there's no space to really run from. I'm just like... What the hell? Oh, I feel like this is kind of like laying the foundation for seeing that in a lot of other films. What was that? She at least grabbed the fireplace poker before she.
01:29:01
Speaker
At least, but still like, oh man, why would you do that? I think this movie gets away with it because it did it so early. I want to say 2019, somebody says, I'll be right back. And it's treated like that's a normal thing for people to say in horror movies after Scream came out. Right. It's not going to be any hint of irony. It's not a joke. It's not immediately scary right afterwards. It's just, I'll be right back.
01:29:27
Speaker
I can forgive this one because this is where it came from. I think that scene. It's dumb. I think that scene too says something for John Saxon, like the intelligence of him, his character as the lieutenant is he's like, just please don't tell her that there's that the call is coming from inside the house. Like, let us handle this. Like, we'll get there. And then, of course, he's a goober and ashes and ruins everything.
01:29:50
Speaker
I wanted to see John Saxon like pistol whip him for screwing up in the exact way he told him not to.
Directorial Choices and Artistic Merit
01:29:57
Speaker
He told him not to screw this up. And he, what did he do? Sergeant Ash, of course. He doesn't get anything. Oh, so pissed at that guy. yeah I love it because it is the first scene that actually gives me like every time I watch it straight goosebumps at that scene when he is the calls are coming from inside the house and her screams later every time I cannot watch it. And there are a few movies left in this world that I've seen this many times that still have a physical reaction to them. And that is just the culmination of everything
01:30:38
Speaker
that this movie is. For me, total 47 out of 50. It's probably one of the highest scores I've ever given a movie. It's up there. But to me, as far as horror goes,
01:30:53
Speaker
This is one of my favorite horror films. it's it's not I've said it on this episode and I've said it before, Psycho is like my favorite movie of all time. This is not Psycho, but it is damn close. like It is real close to being that good.
01:31:15
Speaker
Hell yeah. Oh, I got a little sidetracked. I forgot ah my score. After my adjustments for my little changes there, after getting some enlightened perspective from the rest of you, I'm out of 38.
01:31:27
Speaker
And then we just need yours. I feel kind of bad for for Phil. You know, Andrea Martin, who came back as the Ms. Mack for 2006. Yeah. I feel bad for her because after they talked to like her and just talked to the townies, the those little goofy guys, she's like, oh, I'd rather face the killer. I'd rather face Billy. Boom. She'd wish. hu Sucker. A little bit of foreshadowing. That's just so good.
01:31:50
Speaker
um Man. um Yeah, I think this movie's awesome. My name on Instagram is Black Christmas, kind of because my name is Chris and I thought it was Glover, but also because I love this movie so much.
01:32:04
Speaker
um I think it's probably the best slasher in my opinion. I don't know if it's my favorite slasher, but I think it's the best, one of the best at least. And yeah, I think it's influence on Halloween, which not to detract from what Black Christmas is, just to like lift up Halloween. Like I love Halloween. I'm wearing my Halloween three shirt.
01:32:26
Speaker
Nice. Which with pride. We're with pride. It glows in the dark, too. you like I'm going to turn this light off and see if it. Oh, you can. There you go. Nice. I don't think it works, but it's supposed to.
01:32:59
Speaker
but they clearly aren't but I think this is probably one of the first Christmas horror movies that I mean, I Don't know. Are there at do you guys know before this? No, I don't Like so I don't know much about horror movie history. Was it Santa Claus versus the Martians maybe but Really scary No
01:33:21
Speaker
Um, so yeah, it kind of, it's, it's, I don't know. I love it. So I think it's great. I'm glad that we were here and we're able to talk about all three of them. Yeah. And I think seeing all three of them in such a short amount of time really gave me perspective on things that are liked about, I would say each of them.
01:33:42
Speaker
But i'm I'm pretty firm behind my zero entertainment value on 2019. So there's much I liked about that film. But I do see the the different things where this was pre slasher craze.
01:34:01
Speaker
And there are things I love about it. I love the film. And then to see what 2006 did kind of embracing the slasher craze and just going nuts with it and seeing how that paid off and how it did it and how some things so like I said on the 2006 that 2006 was the trashy twin sister. And I stand by that. That's not a bad thing. That movie is a tremendous amount of fun.
01:34:32
Speaker
this movie is i This movie is art. This movie is art for me. This movie is beautiful and it's not, like most good art, it's not gonna be widely accepted. Most people, you know, may not understand it. So on. But this movie transcends the genre, I think.
01:34:59
Speaker
and it does it masterfully. I mean, how many horror movies did Bob Clark make? Exactly. So, as far as I know, this one's his. Yeah, as far as I know, this was his only, I mean, he made a Christmas story, Porky's Baby Genius. Like, he was like, hey, I'm gonna make a single horror movie and it's gonna be fantastic.
Bob Clark's Career and Fun Facts
01:35:23
Speaker
And he did it, but yeah.
01:35:28
Speaker
Should I wrap this up? Yeah, he was able to avoid. Go ahead. bob Bob Clark was able to avoid the whole ah TV show thing. I think he directed a few episodes of Dukes of Hazzard, but that that that isn't what his career became, so. Yeah.
01:35:43
Speaker
How did he make movies like this and A Christmas Story, and even Porky's because that has its place, and then end up making Blonde and Blonder some sort of weird off-label comedy starring Denise Richards and Zuma Anderson. That's sad. That's even sadder than Superbony's Baby Geniuses 2.
01:36:05
Speaker
yes
01:36:08
Speaker
Like what? What? His trajectory. That's crazy. His trajectory is OK, so I guess this was his third semi horror movie. So he made Children Shouldn't Play With Dead. At some point, you just need to make money. Yeah, that's true. He did Children Shouldn't Play With Dead Things, which was comedy horror. And then he did Dead of Night. Which is that horror? No.
01:36:39
Speaker
But it's his horror thriller. Yeah. So he kind of did. But this was the first like full tilt. Horror that he did. And man, like I wish more people would take a lesson, take a lesson from directors like these are just the guys I love. Imani Shimon, he's hit or miss. But the one thing he does that these guys do is uses the camera to tell the story.
01:37:07
Speaker
please. That's why we're here. Without good camera work, a movie sucks. And I mean, compare the camera work in 2019 to the camera work in this film. It's art. Like this film is art. I know I've said it before. All right, I'll let you guys any last things before I read us out of here.
01:37:29
Speaker
a Fun fact, um Olivia, ah she was in a film in 1987 with famous actor comedian Steve Martin. When they met, he's like, oh my God, you were in one of my favorite all time films. And she thought he was talking about the 1968 version of Romeo and Juliet, but it was actually Black Christmas. He claimed he'd seen it around 27 times. So apparently Steve Martin loves this movie. So I was like, that's an awesome endorsement right there in itself. As if I didn't have enough reasons to love Steve Martin. I was just gonna say. Like if Rockin' the Banjo wasn't enough, like, yeah, this really solidifies it. Yeah. I mean, I watch Planes, Trains, and Automobiles every Thanksgiving, so. Really? Is that the right movie? That's awesome. Did I, write did I quote the right movie?
01:38:14
Speaker
Yeah. No, that's the right movie. ah Everyone was hesitant. No, I love that. So I never, I've never thought of like Thanksgiving movies in that, you know, I blinked out for a second, but yes, it is a Thanksgiving movie. as a I love the film. I love just the small fact that that film is rated R for a single scene and line of dialogue where Steve says the F word like eight times to the person working the airplane ticket, whatever. It's I love that film. John Candy. Anyways, I digress. God bless you, man. We miss you. yeah
01:38:54
Speaker
yeah Black Christmas is a timeless tale of suspense and terror that continues to send shivers down the spines of audiences, showcasing the masterful craftsmanship of director Bob Clark and a stellar cast. That's a wrap on episode 13 of 13 Nights of Halloween. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Ivy, for joining us for the Black Christmas episodes and for this season. Thank you for having us.
01:39:24
Speaker
You know, sorry, I was going to say something, too, but I couldn't find the mute, the unmute. of But thank you. It was it was fun. Yeah, this is our season two finale. We hope you enjoyed diving into the world of horror at the end of the season with us exploring some iconic spooky films. If you've been with us throughout the year, Jonathan and I have given given dove. Gone to the depths of to dive into to bring you some unique films that you might not have heard of.
Conclusion and Season Wrap-up
01:39:54
Speaker
As we've been farewell to this season, we'll be taking a break until January of next year. But if you're not, we'll be back with brand new episodes, fresh scares, and plenty of thrills to keep you entertained. In the meantime, be sure to catch up on any episodes you might have missed and stay tuned for updates on our upcoming season. From all of us here at The Average, we wish you a spooktacular Halloween and a thrilling holiday season.
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