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S3.E9: What about Bob - Thunderbolts* Review w/ Adam Gall
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S3.E9: Thunderbolts Review (ft. Adam T. Gall) In this episode of The Average Reviews, we return to the franchise that started it all for us — the Marvel Cinematic Universe — to break down the latest entry: Thunderbolts. Tim revisits the origin of our scoring system, how it all started with ranking MCU films in 2018, and why The Winter Soldier still reigns supreme. Joined by Adam T. Gall, we ask the big question: Did Marvel finally find its footing… or is this another swing and a miss? 🎙️ LISTEN anywhere podcasts are available 📺 WATCH now and drop your score in the comments 📱 JOIN US on Instagram (@theaveragereviewspod) to use one of our three scoring cards and tell us what you thought of the film! 💥 Whether you’re Team Red Guardian, still wondering what Ghost does, or just here for Florence Pugh — this one’s for you. 📣 Try Zencastr for your own podcast here: https://zencastr.com/?via=theaverage 👇 Like, comment your score, and don’t forget to subscribe! 👇 ⸻ #MarvelThunderbolts #ThunderboltsReview #MCUPhaseFive #MarvelPodcast #TheAverageReviews #MCU #RedGuardian #YelenaBelova #FlorencePugh #BuckyBarnes #PodcastLife #MovieReview #Zencastr #MarvelMovies #ThunderboltsMovie #MCUAnalysis #PodcastRecommendations #MoviePodcast #ScorecardSystem #PopCultureDiscussion
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Transcript
00:01:01
Speaker
All right, folks, welcome back to The Average Reviews, where we don't just watch movies. We break them down, score them out, and settle the debate with our friends. Today, we're diving headfirst into the latest entry from Marvel Studios, Thunderbolts, and joining us is special guest, Adam Gall.
00:01:21
Speaker
That's right. Give him a second, Jonathan. Hey, Adam. I was just going to say, I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to be able to talk about this one because this this was a really exciting one for me.
00:01:36
Speaker
Nice. All right. yeah yeah i have i know I've been trying for a while to get you on, so glad glad we finally made it work. Schedule lined up. Yep. Awesome.
00:01:47
Speaker
So yeah, we've got a lot to say about Thunderbolts, a movie that might be Marvel's attempt to steer the ship back on course, or just another entry in a very shaky post-endgame lineup. Either way, we're giving it the average treatment, scoring it across all of our categories to find out where it really leads.
00:02:02
Speaker
As always, we want you to join the conversation. head to our Instagram and grab one of our three different scoring cards. You can rank the movie for yourself, category category by category, and see how your average stacks ours.
00:02:17
Speaker
Drop your scores in the comments or tag us in your own reviews. Make sure to like, follow, and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching. It helps more than you know, and we love hearing from you. So 17 years ago this week,
00:02:31
Speaker
Iron Man hit theaters. So just let that sink in for a minute. Robert Downey Jr. launched what would become, and John Favreau, launched what would become the most ambitious cinematic universe of all time.
00:02:47
Speaker
ah We are not talking about the demonic dolls versus Coyman cinematic universe from Full Moon. I thought that was pretty ambitious, but I guess this is more important.
00:02:59
Speaker
um Back then, nobody had any idea what Marvel was about to do. Yeah, people forget Iron Man wasn't even a guaranteed hit. Marvel was still figuring out its footing, but that movie set the tone, grounded, character-driven, with just enough spectacle to blow our minds.
00:03:16
Speaker
From there, it was hit after hit. We got The Avengers, the best movie of the entire franchise, Winter Soldier, and Civil War, all building to the ultimate one-two punch of Infinity War and Endgame, the culmination of over a decade of storytelling, box office dominance, and a fan base that was completely bought in.
00:03:40
Speaker
But then things changed after Endgame. It was like Marvel just kind of wandered off. ah The movie becomes less focused. The shows were hit or miss. And even their biggest post-Endgame success, Spider-Man No Way Home, had a huge plot hole. People are still trying to you know so scratching their head over a little bit.
00:03:55
Speaker
Right. So if Doctor Strange can make the world forget Peter Parker, he can also make the world forget Mysterio. Movie over.
00:04:06
Speaker
The end. It doesn't need to exist. It's like they started throwing everything at the wall to see what stuck. Multiverse, variants, legacy characters, you name it.
00:04:16
Speaker
And let's not forget the behind-the-scenes mess, the very public collapse of their next big villain. Yeah, that sent rewrites into Overdrive.
00:04:28
Speaker
We've seen delays, reshuffling, entire projects getting scrapped or reworked. ah There's been a real sense that Marvel's been flailing, trying to recapture that magic without really knowing how. and that brings us to today with the mcu's box office draw slipping and fans growing more and more skeptical Marvel needs a win they need something to get the gears turning again to make people care so is Thunderbolts that movie that's what we're here to find out all right we're diving in okay so the story
00:05:03
Speaker
oh I'll go, Adam, do you have a particular, do you want to fall in? We kind of like to keep it open conversation, but if you want to interrupt us, we don't take offense to it. I'll just dive in. I'll kick us off here because this was actually the first Marvel movie I have been excited for probably. Yeah.
00:05:24
Speaker
Probably since Spider-Man, if I'm honest. I showed up for Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. I was cautiously optimistic because of Sam Raimi.
00:05:35
Speaker
but Yeah, I was in the same boat. When when I heard that Raimi was going to do it, I thought, okay, we we definitely have something good coming. And I ended up walking out of that movie thinking we definitely had something that was okay. There's a lot in Multiverse of Madness that I really like, but overall, I'm not going back to it like I am the first movie.
00:05:54
Speaker
Yeah, and exactly. The little sand-wraining elements are the best parts of it. Oh, yeah, yeah, When WandaVision goes full, like, witch, perfect, beautiful, great.
00:06:06
Speaker
It's awesome. Everything else, ah just, eh, you know? So then for me, the official final, like, nail in the car of me buying every Marvel ticket was Ant-Man Quantumania.
00:06:22
Speaker
Saw that. We actually, me and our first co-host, Bryce, we did an episode on that way back in season one. If you wanna, that movie was garbage. I'm sorry. I hated that movie.
00:06:35
Speaker
um So that was the end of me.
00:06:40
Speaker
yeah I never saw it. oh I hated the movie. I hated the movie so much. I had to own a piece of it. I have two of these. yeah I have two of them. I keep one in the box just to remind me how far we've fallen.
00:06:57
Speaker
Yes, exactly. i i Actually, there was a brief moment there at the end where I thought it might be good, and this could be crazy. I thought it would be good if they actually killed Ant-Man because it would give seriousness to the film.
00:07:13
Speaker
It would make it important. I don't feel like they they earned it. I don't feel like it would have earned it. I would agree. i would agree. But in the end, that was the final movie that I was like, you know what?
00:07:25
Speaker
I don't need to show up for every Marvel movie anymore. I'm done. And then unfortunately, the TV shows on Disney Plus did much the same. I watched WandaVision. I watched Loki season one.
00:07:36
Speaker
I watched Hawkeye, which I actually I didn't hate Hawkeye. I know there are people who Hawkeye was OK. It was OK. I actually, and I really liked Haley's time held. So but I, I liked that.
00:07:48
Speaker
um I, there, there has been the conversation about how post end game we haven't like the biggest thing that the the movies have been lacking have been strong, compelling characters. And for me, there were three characters released or there were, you know, we've seen post end game that have absolutely carried it.
00:08:06
Speaker
And Haley Steinfeld's Kate Bishop is one of them. I love her so much. I wasn't expecting to. She had one of the best best, but then that also can tie in.
00:08:18
Speaker
That was one of the chances that we got to meet Yelena who carries this film. and i black widow was just take take it or leave it it was fine she's good because she's fun there's good action in it and everything you know and getting a little more like familial backstory with the red room and everything was great in black widow you know it's kind of sad way it ended but you know florence pew kicks ass though so i'm i'm glad that she got to carry on in this that's so does she's the reason to watch that movie absolutely yes
00:08:51
Speaker
You mentioned Kate Bishop kind of is one of the newer characters that is carrying it. I would agree. But after this movie, Yelena is as well.
00:09:02
Speaker
I don't want to go back and watch Black Widow. um I know it's controversial, but I love Florence Pugh, and I think she's more interesting than our previous Black Widow, if I'm honest.
00:09:13
Speaker
I 100% agree. And i mean I love Scarlett Johansson, and and and I am a Black Widow fan. I mean, going all the way back to Iron Man 2. What Florence Pugh can manage to do with this is it's unreal how good she is in the role.
00:09:27
Speaker
It's almost too good for Marvel. That's very accurate. So the story of this one, we kind of open up with Florence Pugh. She's and an assassin for hire, basically.
00:09:41
Speaker
And she's doing all these secret government operations that basically they don't want to see the light of the day. Government doesn't want people to know what's happening. So she's doing these and she's kind of getting burned out.
00:09:54
Speaker
uh there's actually i thought it was great story elements about how it's affecting her personally and we'll get into those later but basically she's doing this and she's like you know i kind of want to be more public facing and she's given an assignment all right take this guy out and we get this i thought it was a really cool scene where they're all there to take each other out in this uh what is that is it a mexican standoff they're all yeah they're all pointing their guns at each other basically great scene they end up working together to get out and we get the marvel version basically of a suicide squad we yeah they're expendable characters
00:10:38
Speaker
they're They're villains, anti-heroes who have found themselves working together through happenstance. And in some ways, as much as I actually enjoyed James Gunn's Suicide Squad, the way they brought this group together worked for me.
00:10:52
Speaker
It made like so much sense. Nice. I'm enjoying that. They seem like one-off characters and everything else. And so they and all one of the characters that meets... Amazingly.
00:11:05
Speaker
Yeah. And so together, while they're in this bunker, they meet this character, Bob, who just happens to be there. And then Bob becomes the main progression of this story.
00:11:18
Speaker
Bob ends up, we're going full spoilers here if you're showing up. Oh, good, good. We've got one viewer. It's me on my iPad. It's me on my iPad. But we've got Bob.
00:11:32
Speaker
And full spoilers here, he is the sentry. i think we've seen that. He is also the villain, but he doesn't start out that way. And kind of unraveling the mystery of Bob is what keeps these characters going.
00:11:43
Speaker
And this worked for me. I liked a lot of what they did with this movie. i I'm going to go out there. Pretty bold statement.
00:11:56
Speaker
I want to see this movie again, see if it still holds up on repeated watches, which I actually think it will But I thought this was one of the most unique stories the MCU has given us in a very long time.
00:12:10
Speaker
Because the movie was about how these characters feel and how they're processing their emotions. It's not about the spectacle or the action. The action's good. At times a little CGI heavy and I thought some of it was a little undercooked. But the the crux of the story is you are here.
00:12:27
Speaker
You are sad. Figure out how to manage it. Become better. And Bob was, I mean, Bob immediately became one of my favorite characters in the entire MCU because he is this nobody who struggles, which, I mean, a lot of people, we can relate to that.
00:12:45
Speaker
And then he's very quickly given these godlike powers. And something just to jump ahead a little bit, when Val introduces him as the Sentry and he's in his full suit, which looks great, by the way, I love how he doesn't immediately try to kill the Thunderbolt.
00:13:02
Speaker
They are his friends. He's doing what he has to do, but he lets them go. and there's no back and forth with him and Val about, you know, you're going to do my bidding or you're my super soldier. He just immediately is like, why why should I listen to you?
00:13:17
Speaker
and immediately goes over the edge. And it makes perfect sense when you have a character like that, given that much power that quickly, they're going to turn that fast.
00:13:28
Speaker
Feed an ego that hard like she did? Yeah. Oh, man. How could not happen? Let me ask you guys this. So you guys have both seen ah Falcon of the Winter Soldier, right?
00:13:40
Speaker
No. Actually, I don't watch that one either. I'm lazy bum. Yeah. Tim and i were talking about it earlier. It's not recommend easily. so okay I halfway recommend it.
00:13:53
Speaker
It's good enough to watch once, but don't force yourself to do it. But I didn't remember that Val was even in that show. So I had no idea who she was in this. Oh, yeah.
00:14:08
Speaker
it its that's And that's the problem with the the Disney Plus things is a lot of these crossovers, like we went into the Marvels a couple years ago, and that Ms. Marvel, no clue who that is.
00:14:20
Speaker
Never seen that show. Never going to watch it. yeah But something that I thought i don't want Thunderbolts did better than like Falcon and the Winter Soldier did or something better than what the Marvels did was even though there were elements in this that were introduced in shows like Val,
00:14:36
Speaker
I was still able to follow along well enough. The movie established them well enough on their own.
00:14:45
Speaker
Yes. And it gave just enough. So that was one area.
00:14:51
Speaker
Okay. Well, this is one area that I was curious about Jonathan's input because I thought you had said you hadn't seen a whole lot of the previous installment. So how thrown off were you by Dime Store Captain America or Val or some of these other characters that came from Disney Plus shows?
00:15:13
Speaker
Did you me or him? either You, Jonathan. I hadn't seen it all. i was asking if you... you but with With Bob, like Bob pops up and the immediate reference that comes to my mind is Bob win the in the whole Deadpool line of comics. because there's like Deadpool always had that Bob guy who I think worked for AIM and was always recreating through all the comics and stuff and his connection and saying hey to Bob and whatever and this weird kind of casual conversation and like relationship they had. so When there's this guy pops up here, this Bob, you know I'm like, wait, what?
00:15:47
Speaker
is this the same guy like I was really confused for the few minutes I'm sorry I was so confused I like what is this the same guy I don't know what's going on here and until the story develops you see more what's going on then I finally get it like whatever but man it just I was so confused for a minute there but then it all came together I'm like okay all right whatever I'm just me being weird with my brain don't
00:16:12
Speaker
As far as the rest of the characters, I didn't know who Val was. So seeing Julia Louis Dreyfus in here was was kind of like weird. And then Bucky is a congressman. don't know.
00:16:25
Speaker
That was weird. what What is the deal with that? I was so confused when we saw him in Brave New World and they mentioned that. Why? Why? What was the point of that?
00:16:36
Speaker
So I didn't see Brave New World. I do think they are trying to appease, at this point, diehard Captain America fans have tuned out because you did it all wrong.
00:16:48
Speaker
um But I think they're trying to go back to the storyline where Captain America was a political figure for a while, but they handled it all wrong because when Captain America went into politics, he gave Bucky the shield.
00:17:05
Speaker
It should have been Bucky. And Bucky became Captain America. should have been Bucky. It should have been Bucky. That's my whole issue here. yeah what do they actually showed up I showed up to this movie for Bucky as much as I did for Florence Pugh because yeah he had he had the best best redemptive storyline in all of Marvel. I know I have a buddy who argues that it's Iron Man.
00:17:30
Speaker
I disagree. we Iron Man handles his parents' murder incredibly poorly. Like, I get it. But also, you are not considering at all the evidence before your eyes of the brainwashing and all of that that went on and Bucky's turn to not being that person anymore.
00:17:52
Speaker
Bucky has had the most compelling character arc going all the way from his first appearance in the first Avenger all the way up to now. Nobody in the MCU is more captivating than Bucky.
00:18:03
Speaker
And I don't understand how some people don't agree with that. But i mean, it's yeah great no i agree great. And then I was kind of annoyed that in Endgame well, I guess he didn't show up till Endgame, but he's just kind of sidelined.
00:18:22
Speaker
Like he he had an incredible story through Civil War and then he's just been... It's so weird. It's like they don't know what to do with him. but But there's... He's literally a super soldier.
00:18:34
Speaker
And he's great. He should be Captain America. That's because... I will never don want to understand. They don't know what to do with him. ah Yeah, I will never understand why they chose to give the shield to Falcon. Like, I love Sam Wilson. I love Falcon.
00:18:48
Speaker
and it And it drives me nuts when people tell me, they're like, oh, you must hate Falcon. No, I love Falcon. And that's why I don't want him to be Captain America. Because after seeing Brave New World, I don't like Sam Wilson anymore.
00:19:00
Speaker
What they have done to his character is they have made him a dour, depressing tryhard, which he never was before. He's a sidekick and he's probably the best sidekick in the MCU. Him and Rhodey.
00:19:15
Speaker
They're the best. You can't just make him Captain America and expect it to work when you have the perfect guy right here with Bucky, which is why surprisingly... I agree. It's...
00:19:27
Speaker
i' I'm happy to say that I'm more of a John Walker Captain America fan now after seeing this. Absolutely. I love John Walker. He's such dick in the beginning, but then he got more development and little bit more redemption in his personality as you learn more about it and as they start to get together. Yeah.
00:19:45
Speaker
Yeah. Something that Sam didn't do. Sam didn't grow. He regressed. oh So we had slid in the character, which is fine. But before we dive into that, out of five, what was your score for a story on this one?
00:20:02
Speaker
Four. Four. I believe I gave it a four as well. Yeah. We are four across the boards on that. So yeah, yeah character. Let's talk. John Walker. So Jonathan, if you like John Walker, maybe you go back and watch Phantom Winter Soldier on Disney Plus because that's where he's introduced.
00:20:19
Speaker
yeah He's also the best part. He's the best part of the show. Okay. Yeah, he is. So my biggest frustration, we were talking about the whole Bucky Falcon dynamic, is and it happened briefly in this movie. I was glad we quickly kind of put a stop on it.
00:20:37
Speaker
um Majority of this cast is super soldiers. So yeah in the first encounter, when Yelena goes up against Walker, I'm like, one punch and she should be out.
00:20:51
Speaker
Like, I don't care who you are. He is a super soldier. You're trained assassin. You might be able Yeah, you might be able to roll with a punch. So I was glad that that encounter was very brief.
00:21:03
Speaker
And then she did kind of get it handed to her in it. I was glad she kind of kind of got her butt kicked. Because my biggest problem with Falcon and Winter Soldier was Falcon is not a super soldier. He should not be trading punches with super soldiers.
00:21:22
Speaker
With the Red Hulk. do yes i haven't seen that movie because of that i saw it's so dumb i saw of a clip of him catch that flagpole and i was like his arms are shattered don't care who you are square like queen plank by the red horrible or human yeah and it's because he has yeah he has magic suit armor now because of wakanda Oh, man. Okay, yeah, that's that is bad writing. if you Still, it's internals and everything from the force of that still should have done yeah something a little more crippling, you'd think, right?
00:22:00
Speaker
that's That's what I think. ah So that's been my biggest issue is Marvel doesn't seem to know how to handle super soldiers without letting normal people get their butt kicked, but not realizing that those normal people in comics have always been able to go up against super soldiers by outsmarting them, using tricks, all these other various methods that are interesting.
00:22:24
Speaker
Yeah. So I was glad that Yelena was quickly put down in that fight. And then basically we did see that she could not go up against super soldiers later. So I liked that.
00:22:35
Speaker
She had to use her brain. I was like, oh good. We're making the difference here. I also enjoyed the conversation that happened between, um why can't I think of his name?
00:22:47
Speaker
Red. red Guardian. Red Guardian. Red Guardian. And Buckethead. when they were basically talking about levels of serum, what kind of serum did you get? And I was like, oh, this suddenly means that like Bucky might be significantly better than Red Guardian because he didn't have like a slightly different knockoff or like, oh, I had the Soviet strain. I had the Hydra strain. Like you're getting different versions.
00:23:14
Speaker
So like John Walker might be weaker than the others because he got a different version. well Yeah, and I was surprised. i completely forgot.
00:23:24
Speaker
Because again, it's been a while since I've seen Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I actually forgot that John Walker had the serum. So when they're in that like elevator shaft and he like super jumps up, it like took me back for moment. what but What the hell just happened?
00:23:38
Speaker
i I had to recalibrate remind myself that I'm watching a superhero movie because it's been so long since I've seen one that actually impacted me that I forgot what they were supposed to be.
00:23:48
Speaker
Watching fall and land hit hard on his back. He also deserved it. He deserved to fall. Yes. Get cocky and that's what you get.
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah. Did you get the vibe? No, go ahead go ahead. No, you go ahead. I'm jumping ahead. nope typically in this section ah we're covering the character arc does the movie take our characters on a journey of self-discovery ah um arguably argue and i get i hate saying arguably because it's a cop-out same with like in my opinion um but this movie takes these characters on more of a personal journey than most mcu films
00:24:39
Speaker
Certainly more than any MCU film we've gotten in the last six or seven years. Yes. It is deeply personal. And I do agree with, I saw a lot of the reviews after I saw it, that it's the fairly shallow.
00:24:52
Speaker
And to a degree, I don't think our resolution is necessarily a deep one. I don't think that's what we're here for. I think we are here to see the ramifications of specifically these antiheroes who have shady pasts.
00:25:10
Speaker
and how that affects their daily lives. And I thought it did a pretty good job of showing that. And to the people who said it was particularly shallow, I i don't necessarily agree.
00:25:22
Speaker
i felt for the character of Bob. but he's sitting in that attic watching the memory of his dad abuse his mom and push him around and his desire to do good.
00:25:36
Speaker
But being bogged down by basically these internal thoughts that are his father's voice. I was like, this is good stuff. I mean, think about how think about how they end up defeating Century in the end.
00:25:50
Speaker
It's not with a fist fight. It's with a hug. yeah Yes. It's they literally beat him by hugging him and letting him know that he matters and that he's good enough. And he's not. You can see that and say that this is shallow.
00:26:03
Speaker
Well, and that's the thing. I've seen people be like, oh, it was just a group therapy session. And I'm like yes. But here's the thing. If this had been a major CGI but battle at the end, you would be complaining that there's yet another CGI i battle at the end.
00:26:20
Speaker
Marvel took a shot, did something different. I thought the personal rooms battling through memories was fascinating. Yeah, I wanted more of that, honestly. Dude, seriously, I wish there been more rooms to see more of that trauma and then fighting through it and overcoming that trauma in order to get to him, you know, and get that sense of, like, self-growth as they get over those issues to to get through. don't know, man, it's kind of lacking that part. I can only imagine how good Red Guardian's room would have been oh gosh i got to see that that's a trip i love him oh yeah i when when they when bucky shows up and elena is like you all right and he's like yeah i have a great pastor fine i died because from what we know he has one of the darkest pasts of any of these characters i'm like his oh yeah are probably nightmares
00:27:15
Speaker
And yeah I just thought that was, I thought it was really clever. I thought this movie bordered on ah horror more than Doctor Strange did.
00:27:27
Speaker
Honestly, Doctor Strange leaned into the campy horror, but this was like emotional horror. It was dark. The void as a concept is a terrifying thing. The moment when Red Guardian like stops a piece concrete from hitting that little girl and then immediately she's whisked away.
00:27:46
Speaker
don Oh my god. Yeah, I was like... I'm getting it right now. Yeah. That was so dark. It was so good. I like the whole idea. The director said he got the idea from that, from the Hiroshima.
00:28:00
Speaker
Oh. and Yeah, I saw it. There's a lot of... ah lot of Yeah. Yeah, a lot of that imagery in there. I thought... Like, that's really the biggest amount of CGI at the end. little bit of superhero stuff. The...
00:28:15
Speaker
The rooms, we're talking about characters. I'm just talking about this whole movie. It's a good movie. It's a really good movie. The Sentry and the Void storyline I thought was actually fantastic.
00:28:29
Speaker
And I even like, I think there's a little bit more depth behind, you're kind of thinking going into it that Bob needs to defeat these dark thoughts. And so he leans into that and just starts beating the crap out of it.
00:28:43
Speaker
And then Yelena says, that's what it wants. I'm like, yeah, because when you're struggling like he is, the solution is not to beat yourself up more. Don't embrace the dark side. Yeah. yeah That's not it.
00:28:58
Speaker
I was almost sitting there thinking like, I think he needs to stop and turn around and go to his friends to get away from the dark thoughts. But it was his friends who came to him. And I was like, yeah,
00:29:09
Speaker
I'm buying this. i'm a I'm not ashamed to admit I i almost ugly cried. yeah I cry at movies. I cry at just about everything. I was tears coming down. And it might have been a little cheesy. It might have been on the nose. But I was like, that hits.
00:29:26
Speaker
If it's impactful, it's impactful. It doesn't matter. But to on your point where you said you know his friends came to him. I think that's far more important than him walking away, because what Bob needed in that moment was somebody to reassure him that he's valued.
00:29:43
Speaker
He didn't just need to see it himself. he He needed other people to help him out, which is I mean, it's the whole point of a team up movie is to lean on each other. yeah speaks you amazing That kind of stuff too, because I mean, when it comes to mental health issues, a lot of people don't see the signs or they ignore the signs and they don't take the time to help that friend or that person who needs that sense of extra care sometimes.
00:30:06
Speaker
So that has a really big impact in the way they presented that in this film.
00:30:11
Speaker
that's I will always appreciate that Marvel made a movie tackling mental health like this. I mean, just for that alone, Thunderbolts ranks pretty high for me. But then just the sheer quality of the movie as well. I mean, I'm happy. I'm really happy that we got another good MCU movie.
00:30:33
Speaker
I texted my comic book buddies that I have a chat with all the time. I texted them walking out of this movie and I said, guys, it's a like my knee jerk reaction to this film is it's a top 10 MCU film for me.
00:30:47
Speaker
And I don't know exactly where it lies, but it's towards probably top five. And that surprises me. But my... My MCU ranking shifts around a little bit, but as of right now, I have it at number nine.
00:31:01
Speaker
So it's in my top ten. I know you were just going back and started at the beginning. Have you made it through all of them? i I am up to – the last one I watched was Infinity War, and then I stopped to watch Daredevil, and then I've been getting my ass kicked by that for like a month and a half now.
00:31:18
Speaker
So i haven't I haven't picked back up to the movies yet. Daredevil, yeah. Look, Daredevil, I know we're talking Thunderbolts, but Daredevil I think Infinity War is better than Endgame. Oh, yeah, yeah. Infinity War is my number two dar right now.
00:31:34
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. What was number one? Guardians 3. What's one? Number one is is Guardians Volume 3, yeah. I really like Guardians 3. I'm not going lie. Mm-hmm.
00:31:47
Speaker
I really like that one. ah my My one is Winter Soldier because it worked as a standalone. yeah. It's excellent. um yeah But we've been talking about Sentry and Void, but I actually think they do justice.
00:32:05
Speaker
Just about the only characters who are there in supporting roles are Red Guardian, supporting role. yeah Ghost is a supporting role. Very under Coach Bellwood.
00:32:17
Speaker
yes ghost was from ant-man 2. yeah so we literally haven't seen her in almost 10 years um yeah right about there yeah so but she's a fascinating character i yeah the main character we get some more john walker ahead was going to say, i liked I liked Ghost in Ant-Man and the Wasp, but she was never a character I was like pining to see again.
00:32:50
Speaker
I'm happy she's back because I i liked her in this, but you out of all of the ones that don't die, she's definitely the least like fully baked character in there.
00:33:04
Speaker
Yes. And I think they needed her for her power set, honestly, um beauty more than anything. But Walker gets better treatment here than I thought he did in Falcon and Winter Soldier.
00:33:17
Speaker
kind of starts off much the way he left, kind of an unlikable asshole, really. And we get to see like he's covering a lot.
00:33:29
Speaker
He's dealing with a lot of his mistakes. They're touched on briefly. It's not real in-depth, but it's enough that we have an understanding. and we see that he does want to do right and i thought that was good stuff we get a lot more of yelena than we have before and she's a standout like i i i like scarlett johansson i like black widow i like her more i like elena more i would see more of it she's more interesting uh
00:34:01
Speaker
She does the action really well, too. She really carries her own. I like her grit. I like the grit that she t she has as character. yeah She does a lot to carry this film. ah Those three, I would have liked to see more Bucky. He's my favorite character. We've said that.
00:34:16
Speaker
ah ah he They don't really seem to know what to do with him. This did him better than anything he's been in for a while. yeah but Outside of that weird congressman stuff at the beginning.
00:34:27
Speaker
Yeah. Which I like other than that. Yeah. I like that we got to see Bucky get more involved with the world. Like I don't mind him being associated in a political way, but it's just so weird that they drop that on us in a cameo in Brave New World and then don't do anything with it in this movie.
00:34:50
Speaker
And then Val even brings up at a point that he only served half of a term. But at no point in this movie did he leave his position, right? Or did I miss him? Those are speculation when they come to the tower, and she's just like, oh, you made a term at this point.
00:35:06
Speaker
Yes. Okay. I'm pretty sure she was saying that by his actions showing up there, his term is done. Done. Yeah. Fair. I mean, it needs to be done, but yeah. Yep. That was like a little insult. He's not good politically in that primary role, yeah.
00:35:21
Speaker
No, he was so bad when he was getting interviewed. I was kind of wincing and I'm like, oh but you're bad at this. Stop. You're not really a public face. No. I think that might have been their point that he's not really a public face.
00:35:34
Speaker
Yeah. But then that just that just circles back around to the question of Marvel, why did you even do this? And the whole point of making him a senator was to show that he's not good at being a senator.
00:35:45
Speaker
Why make him a senator? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, well, because they couldn't make him an assassin for hire because that's what it was for.
00:35:57
Speaker
You couldn't really bear do that. That just came to my brain, though. So other comments on character? Are we ready for scores? um I was really big on Yelena and Red Guardian as that whole kind of father-daughter thing with her talking about how much of a struggle it was losing her sister and him just not being there and him being like, oh, I thought you didn't want me, you know? And then then finally coming together and having that sense of understanding and him getting to have the opportunity to kind of fulfill that fatherly role, even though he's such a goofy, weird guy how he tries to bring the team together. And he he even mentions in the in his...
00:36:35
Speaker
in his limo after he picks him up in the desert and how embarrassed is with all of it. You about them being an anti-hero team and coming together being like, yeah you know, he's like the cheerleader, supportive dad role of all of us. so, he's so good. um Between, oh between this and, and Stranger Things, David Harbour plays the, the weird dad so well.
00:36:56
Speaker
Yeah. I love their dynamic with him and Yelena. Did you think, I genuinely thought at one point at this movie they were going to kill him for the emotional impact.
00:37:07
Speaker
He had that conversation with Yelena. Oh, I thought Century was going to take him out at one point because I thought that was going to be a catalyst, but I'm glad they didn't go that direction.
00:37:18
Speaker
But for me, i actually... after we're talking about it, I'm wanting to go up to a five on the characters. I really...
00:37:30
Speaker
The characters are the strongest part of the movie. Yeah, I haven't resonated with a character arc in a Marvel movie in a very long time. And this one was, I thought the common person can relate to these people more than the Steve Rogers or the Thors.
00:37:50
Speaker
we don't We don't understand Thor. Yeah. So, yeah, I think I have five on this. Not since Rocket in Guardians 3 have I felt this deeply attached to a character.
00:38:03
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Rocket storyline, man. God, that was so fucking sad. may animal abuse and everything that you see, it it it it hits a note real hard.
00:38:15
Speaker
Yep. I lied. I think I saw that one in theaters, so I think that was one of the ones I got out to after Ant-Man. But yeah, I'm a five on this. You guys? Five.
00:38:26
Speaker
You know, I think I said four, but I'm going to go with you. I'm going to say a five because the more I think about it, I ah love them. I love all of these characters. I'll bump it up. All right. So this one this one's going to be a little shorter.
00:38:40
Speaker
ah Sound design, music. I thought it was serviceable. but It was was effective. Yep. It did its job, but it's not super memorable.
00:38:51
Speaker
You got like one memorable song and the Avengers theme and like, yeah that's really The rest was just a score that just sets a tone and that's it. They very effectively set the tone when Void was spreading the void. It did sound creepy, but I couldn't hum that for you. Like it's not stuck in my head. I remember it working, but I can't remember what it was.
00:39:14
Speaker
Yeah, I agree completely. um i did like the slight twist on the Avengers theme, which I'm sure we'll get to later on the reveal at the end.
00:39:25
Speaker
Kind of want to save that for later. But... The slight twist on that I thought was fine, but ah again, it's not super memorable. It certainly wasn't bad music.
00:39:36
Speaker
I liked how we interrupted the Marvel theme at the beginning and just cut to black, like got quiet went to black. That was a nice touch. What did you guys think immediately? The first thing I noticed, the the Marvel logo was made up of only comic book panels this time.
00:39:54
Speaker
No clips from the movie. Yeah. I thought that was interesting. I didn't even think of that because it quickly, like the music quickly cut and we like void took it over.
00:40:05
Speaker
And I was more impressed by that. i was like, Ooh, that's a nice touch. That's a nice yeah touch. I thought i was hearing i didn't even think about the comic panels. I like when Marvel does something different with the Marvel logo because it, I mean, it really helps to set the tone. And I, and I really noticed this one, especially since coming off of brave new world, they didn't even put the Marvel logo on it.
00:40:25
Speaker
Oh, really? There was, yeah. It was the first MCU movie with no Marvel Studios logo. They kind of had an idea already when putting it out post-production. We probably already know how is going to be received.
00:40:39
Speaker
but yeah Let's just i heard's just get rid of it. It's not the worst thing I've ever seen. it's up but It's low on the list.
00:40:53
Speaker
right So music, sound design, not a whole lot to say. i was a three. it was good. It was effective at what it did. Not super memorable. Three, yeah right yeah. Right down the middle for me.
00:41:04
Speaker
OK. And then editing and special effects. This is an area that I have not been able to praise Marvel for a very long time. And I think the biggest strength to this film is it wasn't a CGI fest.
00:41:22
Speaker
It had CGI, but it was not... It was a lot... That's part of the benefit of having super soldiers. You put the character on a string and pull them when they get punched.
00:41:34
Speaker
You don't have to CGI a whole lot. Yeah. There's an accent more than anything. Yes. The ending avoided a major CGI slogfest. We get the void CGI stuff, which is pretty subtle.
00:41:48
Speaker
It's done well. Yeah. i loved I loved how it looked. I know a lot of people have have talked about how, you know, like, dour and bleak the movie looks because of the color palette. I personally loved the way it looks.
00:42:03
Speaker
But I will say this. Since there wasn't a whole lot of, like, bombastic CGI, when the team is fighting Sentry in the top of the Avengers Tower, that looked kind of bad to me.
00:42:15
Speaker
A lot of rubber Bill Pullman in there. Yeah. Yeah. It was really noticeable. But it was that was like the only scene that was noticeable. But unfortunately, yeah it was Century, and it looked like a video game.
00:42:31
Speaker
Yeah, I noticed when they threw a couple of the bodies, i was like, I'm not exactly sure those bodies were stunt doubles. It looked pretty CGI'd. But outside outside of that, I think I liked seeing one of my favorite things about this movie was since Thor Ragnarok, we have had these digital backgrounds that look terrible in most Marvel films. It's almost like they shot this one on a real set. Yes.
00:43:00
Speaker
yeah yeah It looked like this was on sets. It looked good. There was not a moment that I was like, the set ends there. I yeah was immersed.
00:43:13
Speaker
it It looked nice. It looked really good. I was surprised. I think the only time I thought that it might have been a digital background was when, towards the beginning, when Yelena was hiding behind a rock and watched Taskmaster go into the building.
00:43:30
Speaker
Yeah, it looked a little special. That the time that I was like, that could be a set, or that could be a digital background. yeah but other than that, I thought they did a really nice one. Yeah. The what? i yeah They might have used a lot of the volume on this one.
00:43:43
Speaker
But if they did, they used it effectively. Because I'll be honest, at this point, I'm i'm sick of the volume, too. It's very noticeable a lot of times.
00:43:52
Speaker
That's fair. I got to say, though, that fight in the Avengers Tower, though, like I thought it was kind of stupid that they're all going after Sentry and not a single one tried to go after Valentina just to knock her ass out. I was like, why didn't someone just go punch her in the face while they're all doing that? At least, you know, drag her off and do whatever while they're doing that, you know, distract him, something. Yeah, I did get i did get the...
00:44:14
Speaker
I did appreciate Yelena, like, it's not the enemy trying to stop them. Like, what are we doing? Stop, stop, stop. I did get that. Thought that was nicely done. I thought much of the hand-to-hand stuff, it's not it's not Winter Soldier level hand-to-hand stuff.
00:44:33
Speaker
Like, that movie is still peak on the hand-to-hand combat for me. Yeah. But... it was the best we've gotten in a really long time. I enjoyed it. Yeah, I agree.
00:44:45
Speaker
I enjoyed the action scenes in this, which is crazy. The editing on, we were talking about going from the rooms, the editing on the room scenes was really good. turns and everything thing as things shift around.
00:45:02
Speaker
I especially like that scene where, i did she jump through a mirror or a window, but she like half flops? onto the floor and i was like that was a good cut that was really nicely done um think she's going through four but then falls forward into the bathroom where she's passed out right right right right okay yeah yeah no i love how when she was in there she could only see bob in the mirrors like even when she was in the room with him there was still that separation and every time she would turn he would disappear and you therere
00:45:34
Speaker
There's some horror movie elements going on there that were working for me. they were a lot of A lot of the horror elements in this movie I thought is what we were going to get in that new Mutants movie back in the day.
00:45:45
Speaker
When they kind of pitched that as being a horror movie and that fell flat on its face. So I'm happy that they were actually able to get some horror stuff into a good comic book movie. Because I've been dying to see that ever ever since that train wreck.
00:45:58
Speaker
Anya Taylor-Joy as Magic was fantastic casting. One of my favorite characters... one of my favorite actors. And somehow he still missed that movie. i that we could We could go on for hours about that movie.
00:46:15
Speaker
I actually saw a clip of that earlier today on Facebook. ah yeah So for me, editing and special effects on this movie... It's still too much CGI. Not going to give it a five.
00:46:26
Speaker
I am going to give it a four. And unfortunately, I don't know if it deserves a four or if Marvel has been so bad lately that this one looked really good. I might be giving it a four for the very fact that they built sets and shot on locations over using CGI. Yeah.
00:46:47
Speaker
I mean, that's fair. That's fair. yeah i'm I'm not going to go quite as high as a four. going to say a three just simply because that Sentry fight looked really rubbery to me, and I can't overlook that.
00:46:58
Speaker
But the rest of the movie, I was very happy with. Yeah, we have a CGI part where you see Sentry kind of throw Red Guardian with his power out the through the glass, out in the air, and then slings him back in I kind of see what you're saying with the rubberiness, kind of with that. yeah definitely freak i went whenever Whenever they would like hit the wall or the floor or something like that, they would kind of like bounce a bit and I was like that's not what would happen they'd be soup that's perfectly fair I really did like Void's nearly solid blackness with pinprick white eyes yes yes so i so I cannot believe how good the Void looked and the fact that it it looked real too
00:47:41
Speaker
Yeah, it did. It's like, even when he opened his mouth, can still kind of see a slightly less black of the teeth. And just there's slight differentiations in the accent of blackness. And then those pinprick eyes. Oh, dude, that was pretty cool. It's creative.
00:47:54
Speaker
Because on paper, it's real easy to say, just paint it black. But I feel like they went the extra mile. And instead of making him black, they really emphasize the absence of light.
00:48:05
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of like a vampire black. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. it's He's a three-dimensional void of nothingness, but you can still see like the dimensions of him.
00:48:16
Speaker
And that's very slight lighting around the edge of him where you can see it's not 100%. ah hundred percent There's still something there. it Incredible. One of the best character designs I've ever seen.
00:48:28
Speaker
but Tim, do you remember what Vantablack is from art school?
00:48:34
Speaker
yeah's actually there's exercise version it's like It's such a dark black. This guy who makes it, it is such a dark black. It absorbs light, and it's it's it's like the blackest black. It absorbs all. It's so amazing. like I saw a guy who painted a whole room at once. to Talk about expensive.
00:48:49
Speaker
Holy shit. That is what sounds like an anxiety attack. Dude, seriously. And then there's another person who painted their car in Vantablack. I've seen that. I saw that. a Oh, my gosh. The void, the blackness of void was like that Vanta black.
00:49:04
Speaker
It's so deep, so dark, so light absorbing of nothing. That was super impactful. Yeah, it was excellent. It really well done.
00:49:15
Speaker
And Adam was a three. Yeah, the void alone gets a five, but everything else gets three. Everything drags it down. Gotta average it out. yeah The script here.
00:49:27
Speaker
So I'll be honest.
00:49:31
Speaker
I think I'm going to have to change my score after we've talked about it. I thought a lot of the mental health things that i appreciate the story for going into for the way they did it with void and sentry excellent i thought the way the script specifically said it the words that were chosen to come out of the characters mouths didn't quite hammer it as effectively as a lot of the imagery and overall narrative did i thought some of it was a little bit i don't want to say heavy-handed
00:50:08
Speaker
I think simplified is the word. A little Saturday morning cartoon kind of lesson. Yes. It was like, oh, we need be there for our friend. You're not alone.
00:50:18
Speaker
Like,
00:50:21
Speaker
It's not the worst. It wasn't bad. But there is, when you're dealing with that, I've seen so many, read books, other movies. Honestly, I think one of my favorite movies about mental health, which is insane.
00:50:35
Speaker
um I really thought Everything Everywhere All at Once did an amazing job with it. And that that's a totally crazy movie. And I know some people hated that. But this... I'm still going to watch that one too. I'm not a fan.
00:50:51
Speaker
No. yeah Not a fan on that one. I liked it. But I know a lot of people didn't. um There are plenty of other movies that can be brought up for that.
00:51:01
Speaker
But... I thought it was just a little oversimplified in some cases, not a real lot, not a bunch of in-depth conversation.
00:51:12
Speaker
They managed to show these feelings and things better than they discussed it. Right. I think for me, ideally you want them to be able to show it and discuss it like perfectly both. But if you're only going to be able to excel in one of them, I'm happy that we got to visually see it rather than, over you know, know Yeah.
00:51:35
Speaker
But I do agree with you, but at the same time, I also, i don't want to hold that against the movie because at the end of the day, this is still Marvel. And as good as Marvel is, i feel like they don't really have the ability to go as in-depth as something like an Everything or or Eternal Sunshine or, you know, something that really discusses, like, mental stability and all of that.
00:51:59
Speaker
I think what they did, it worked perfectly well for a summer blockbuster, and it even... did more than I would have expected it to do. Yeah, I think you're fair, fair.
00:52:09
Speaker
Especially for a Marvel film. Yeah. so It was good dialogue. It was good dialogue overall. There were some good funny lines in there, especially like when they're in the bunker and Bob's like, you're Captain America? You're of an asshole.
00:52:21
Speaker
I laughed so hard. was like, damn, called out so hard on it. Like, yeah, dude. I love that they're not afraid to do that. mean, if you had a super soldier in front of you who publicly executed a man And it kind of had a ah history of being an asshole.
00:52:36
Speaker
I don't think any normal person would look him dead in the eyes call asshole. So I love that Bob did that. Well, Bob was in the books. He had no idea who who he was until he'd come up. Yeah, he he did that even even not knowing that he could defend himself.
00:52:50
Speaker
Because he's a dick. He's an asshole.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah, I... Oh, yeah, but then there's, like, the part where ah where're everyone's kind of like, what the hell, Winter Soldier? Like, he's everyone wrapped up in the garage, and they're trying to explain everything that's going on with Bob, and he doesn't believe a word of it.
00:53:08
Speaker
thinks it's all BS, and he finally gets call from Mel, Valentina's assistant, and he's just like, Bob. and And then they're all like, Bob! Yes, we're trying to tell you God, it's not bullshit, you know?
00:53:20
Speaker
It's like that whole scene and dialogue there, just, it cracked me up. That was one So Marvel had gotten into a rut with their scripts of everybody trying to follow the Guardians of the Galaxy humor.
00:53:31
Speaker
Every movie had to have that. And it got bad where it took away from the films. This one, I thought, balanced it much better. We still had a couple cheesy lines that I was like, eh, could have lived without it. Didn't necessarily bother me.
00:53:49
Speaker
What I appreciated more was I felt like for the first time in a while, we got unique senses of humor versus everybody getting punchlines. Like, Yelena's totally like...
00:54:02
Speaker
ah dismissive and IDGAF attitude towards a lot of stuff was very funny to me. The way she was like, all right, yeah, that wasn't so bad. I'm like, that's funny to me.
00:54:15
Speaker
That worked. They all played well off of each other because every character, like you said, had a different sense of humor to them. Yes. Like yeah John Walker's sense of humor is just that he's an asshole and it's funny and he knows he's funny, but he's a dick.
00:54:30
Speaker
Yep. And then Yelena is totally apathetic about most things emotional. So like, even when her dad tries to have that emotional conversation with her towards the end, she's just like, oh, that wasn't so bad.
00:54:44
Speaker
And I'm like, i not a thank you or an emotional response. It was an appropriate comic line. She's like, yeah, you did you did good, Dad. You know kind of a thing. Yeah.
00:54:56
Speaker
I love their dynamic. And it I find it interesting to me that probably my favorite moment of the last, you know, of the post-Endgame era, I know Guardians 3 is start to finish my favorite movie that they've done, but in Black Widow, a movie that I didn't really care for, the scene where the whole family is sitting around the table just having a conversation and we get to hear Red Guardian and Natasha and Yelena talk,
00:55:23
Speaker
the best moment in that movie and one of the best moments in the entire MCU for me. And we do get another moment like that with Red Guardian Yelena talking about how alone she is and how he just says like, um' I know I haven't been around, but I'm here now.
00:55:38
Speaker
You're not alone anymore. Just really, it's it's good stuff. And then for her to echo that back to Sentry when needed.
00:55:49
Speaker
yeah speaking of echoing back though yeah at the beginning of the movie when yelena is in the lab trying to get rid of all the evidence and that scientist pops up and he's like trying to say no you know she's like oh blah blah repeating the same line yeah she's been through this before bla they always say the same thing and she's just like almost copying him line for line as he's saying it i thought that was fantastic that was so good like did you notice in that scene did you notice the shadows on the wall at to the very beginning Yes, yes. I saw that. I didn't really think anything of it, you know, and I'm like, okay, well, something must have happened. Something must have got burned or someone maybe got flash fried.
00:56:22
Speaker
And then it reconnects towards the end when they're in the room and Bob is fighting the void where you see him sitting on the table and it's like, oh, that's the same lab from the beginning. Holy shit. Way to bring it back around.
00:56:33
Speaker
So the only reason I know this is because I had seen the talk about the director saying he got the idea for the shadows from Hiroshima. And so when she was in that at the beginning, I was like, oh, there's shadows on the wall. there like It was subtle, but it was there.
00:56:52
Speaker
there. That's good. Yeah, I missed that. So then script, I was a three...
00:57:03
Speaker
I think I'm going to come up to a four. I think it's a little bit better than a three. I feel comfortable with a three. It's three. It's a good script. It's not a great script. It's a good one. Yeah. I'm still going to lean a three because it's, when you talk about like Marvel movies with just incredibly solid scripts, you're talking, you know, Iron Man, Avengers, Winter Soldier, Guardians 1.
00:57:28
Speaker
I don't think it's quite on that level, but it's, it's up there. So I, I, I, I'm sticking with a three. Okay. Well, we are unanimous on that one then. Cause I, I stuck with a three after I talked more stuff down the acting, the acting.
00:57:44
Speaker
So this was a tough one for me. Cause typically I'm like a five is an Academy award deserving performance. Hmm. But nobody missed in this movie.
00:57:57
Speaker
No. no Nobody missed. i I would say Florence Pugh. It'll never happen. But right if the Academy Awards came along and they nominated her for her performance in this movie, shit I wouldn't not complain at all. No.
00:58:12
Speaker
She was excellent. yeah Like we said in the beginning, she definitely was, like one like you said, she's one of the big carries of this film, especially with her performance. i'm I wasn't expecting her to essentially be the lead of this movie. I thought it was going to be more of an ensemble film, and it still is.
00:58:28
Speaker
But I think we can definitively say Florence Pugh was the lead of the movie. Oh, yes. My God, that was such a good move. That was so smart for them to do. Yeah, because initially I was disappointed Bucky wasn't the lead.
00:58:41
Speaker
But after a seeing the movie... I'm glad he wasn't. ah Yeah, after seeing the movie, I'm all right. I'm all right. Yeah. Yeah. i do I wish we got a little more Red Guardian. do kind love Bucky.
00:58:54
Speaker
Go ahead. I was going to say, I wish we got a little more Red Guardian. He was in it enough to satisfy, but he was so good. I wanted him to kind of be even more of a secondary lead.
00:59:08
Speaker
but yeah He was good comic relief in in a lot of ways, though, as well as being you know more supportive as a character. I love his red Chanto.
00:59:17
Speaker
we'll talk We'll talk about the post-credits scene at the end. but Oh, Jesus. That God. Oh, my God. ah Both of them. jesus but's with the Jesus.
00:59:29
Speaker
Kind of cringy a little bit, but what yeah, we'll get to that. i thought Florence was excellent. ah lewis ah Lewis Pullman, right? believe so, His dad's Bill. The son of Bill Pullman.
00:59:41
Speaker
Oh, really? i didn't know that. Okay, awesome. Cool. Cool. I'm Bill Pullman. Yeah, we got two famous sons in this movie. John Walker is Kurt Russell's son.
00:59:53
Speaker
Huh. Well, I'm in. Yeah. thats so i was So Kurt Russell is one of my favorite actors. So when I heard that Wyatt Russell was going to be joining the MCU as U.S. agent, i was like, okay, umm I'm in. I'm on board.
01:00:08
Speaker
and That's who his dad is. Why did I not put that together? A lot of people say they look exactly alike. i don't see the resemblance that strong, but I wouldn't have thought by looking at it.
01:00:21
Speaker
but look at no know now that Now that you see it, I see familial resemblance, but not like, a spitting image. nices Yeah, it's not like a clone. Because you guys saw that that Monarch show.
01:00:32
Speaker
Kurt Russell Wyatt Russell play the same character. just ah Yeah, Wyatt Russell plays the young version of his dad in the fifty s Okay, I started the Monarch show. I did not finish it. I need to. I haven't seen it. have no idea.
01:00:46
Speaker
I didn't finish it because my free Apple TV trial ran out, and I'm not paying for a streaming service with shows I don't care about. Yes, exactly. and But now I have it free through my phone provider, so I i might as well go back and finish it.
01:01:00
Speaker
Give it a shot. Season 2 is coming soon. I'm going fuck up for all Godzilla. so Oh, yeah. All right, but the performances... uh lewis pullman was amazing um first time i saw him was bad times at the el royale which i love that film yeah i love that film and he played such a sympathetic character in that kind of seeing him jacked in a superhero role instead of like the quiet nerdy or comic relief character i was like he he did a nice job i i forgot
01:01:34
Speaker
I forgot he was in Bad Times. i i remember him just from Top Gun Maverick couple years ago. That was the first time I really took note of him. yeah Also playing Bob in that movie. yeah ah he's He's really good. I'm really happy to see more of him.
01:01:49
Speaker
But let me ask you guys this. So are you guys aware about the recasting that happened? For? For Century. No, have no idea. I don't know any the details.
01:02:01
Speaker
It was originally Steven Yeun, Glenn from The Walking Dead. Oh. What? He was sentry, but i don't know after the writers strike, the production had to get pushed back.
01:02:13
Speaker
And Steven Yeun's schedule didn't line up, so they had to replace him. So they got Bill Pullman. Huh. I don't. Or Lewis Pullman. OK. Yeah. So well, now I have to dive in on maybe they're the same age. I don't know. Dive in on a pet peeve of mine.
01:02:27
Speaker
um Steven Yeun is a little on the older side. I think they're right about the same age. Are they? I think so. They're both in their 30s. I have no idea. Okay.
01:02:38
Speaker
I'm going to look because I know he was on Walking Dead forever ago. who um I got to find this out. Do you think that Steven Yeun would have made for a good century?
01:02:51
Speaker
ah do i don't know, man. I can't really say in any way on that. i don't know, man. I was distracted by it the whole time because, I mean, I was loving Lewis Bowman's performance, but the entire time I was just thinking how much I wanted Steven Yeun in the MCU.
01:03:08
Speaker
And it's got to suck for him because, you know, they have big plans for century. And he was so excited. I remember him talking about how excited he was to play this character but and how upset he was when he had to leave.
01:03:19
Speaker
He's crushing it as invincible right now. Invincible is awesome. Invincible is amazing. That show is fantastic on Amazon Prime. I watched the first episode.
01:03:33
Speaker
Watch the first episode. didn Watch some more, please. so the The comic was one of my favorite superhero series ever. I just re-read it. I'm two-thirds of the way through.
01:03:47
Speaker
And it like the major the first major arc is incredible. And then it dips a little bit, but it gets its footing real quick again. And the show is super faithful on Amazon.
01:03:59
Speaker
It's very good. So Steven's killing it at that. I did just look, and to get back on my pet peeve, Louis is 32. And Steven is 41. wow. Is he 41?
01:04:10
Speaker
Yeah. main issue is... yeah so my main issue is i'm I hate recently Marvel and DC hiring um Nathan Fillion as Green Lantern. or Yeah, as Green Lantern.
01:04:28
Speaker
Not a bad choice. He's a great great actor. But you're hiring these actors who are in their 40s and 50s for franchises you're hoping to carry for the next 10-ish years?
01:04:40
Speaker
Yeah. Hire Youngblood. Hire Youngblood. i'm I'm halfway with you on that. I don't like seeing young 20-somethings get cast as superheroes because I feel like that backs you into a corner about you have to then write that character to be young and naive because it just kind of seems that that's how they seem to do it, and I hate that.
01:05:02
Speaker
That's why a lot of people are upset about the Fantastic Four cast thing. I love it. um I'm sick of Fantastic Four. I'm sorry. I'm tired of the reboots and rehashes. Nope. I saw the preview for what they... They showed the preview for the movie. I saw the trailer when I went see Thunderbolts last night.
01:05:16
Speaker
And was just like, ah, another one. Like, ugh, man. I am... When the Fox-Disney merger happened, the number one thing that I was excited about was getting a good Fantastic Four movie.
01:05:28
Speaker
Now, I don't know if the movie's going to be good. We'll find out in like two months. But... i i god I love the Fantastic Four. I don't know. Pascal Reed Richards? I don't know, man.
01:05:38
Speaker
ah feel That's my big head up. I like Pedro. I thought they'd... I was mad at Disney. I feel like they had great casting in Krasinski. I actually... That would have been awesome. and i Yeah.
01:05:50
Speaker
And he's young enough to carry the role for the next couple of years. And I get that Reed Richards is typically older. He's often shown with gray hair.
01:06:01
Speaker
But I think um um I'm going to give it a shot. I'll give it a shot. i don't I'm going to wait for reviews on Fantastic Four to see if it's worth the theater trip. Oh, I'll let you know.
01:06:13
Speaker
<unk> getting I'm getting day one ticket. The moment they go live, I'm getting it. ah No, I agree. i Pedro Pascal is weird choice for the role. Yeah, he's he's a weird choice for the role, but I'm okay with it because I am a huge fan of him.
01:06:29
Speaker
But I'll be honest, I thought it was going to be Penn Badgley. I really thought they were going to go with him. I don't even know who that is. I don't know who that is. He's the lead from that show on Netflix, You.
01:06:42
Speaker
Oh, okay. that Yeah. I thought they were going with him. Honestly, I don't think that's that awful of a choice. He looks a lot like... Ian Gruffid from yeah the originals.
01:06:56
Speaker
Him or Glenn Howarden, and I know it was rumored for a while. Glenn Howarden, I would have loved. I would have bought great don't think that was ever serious. Yeah, I don't think it was ever serious, but he was in the running.
01:07:07
Speaker
would have bought tickets for that. Yeah, yeah. Cast Charlie Day as the thing. No, no, Danny DeVito is the thing. Charlie Day's Human Torch.
01:07:18
Speaker
do that caitlin olson is obvious as fantastic four i'd watch that would be so absurd but so so messed up to watch but fun all right so the acting our final scores for that four umm i'm a four i'm gonna go five just florence pew alone but everybody was great you that's perfect so the direction this is one that I had to look up the director because I've never really seen any of his work before, didn't really know him.
01:07:51
Speaker
But I don't know what it was with with this movie, but this movie looked different than other Marvel films. It had style. It had style. And I don't know, part of me genuinely thinks Marvel didn't necessarily believe in it, and so they took more of a backseat approach.
01:08:13
Speaker
the less involvement. I heard the production for this was much easier than the production for captain America. Well, it's because this is the first movie that went into production after, um Bob Chapek was officially gone.
01:08:29
Speaker
Oh yeah. Brave new world. That's why, yeah, that's why for me, and I've talked about this and I, and I know i posted about it online a few times. I'm talking about the reason why I'm actually getting excited for the MCU again is because, yeah, the last you know five and a half years have been nothing but failures in my eyes. Well, not nothing, but mostly failures.
01:08:49
Speaker
Mostly, yeah. but that's because the last five and a half years have been Bob Chapek-resulted products. We are officially out of the Chapek era. The only thing left that was made under Chapek is Ironheart, and you couldn't pay me to watch that.
01:09:04
Speaker
So I'm okay. It is. Yeah, it's a side character from Wakanda Forever. Fair. yeah you remember that word on Remember that really annoying teenage girl that was a bitch for no reason and thought she was better than everybody else?
01:09:18
Speaker
Well, they gave her a show. They gave her a show. Yeah. it was So that's another one. Okay, so or i don't want to talk about it in Direction.
01:09:29
Speaker
That character was created by Brian Michael Bendis, which we'll get into on the next category. But the direction on this, like you said, adam it had style.
01:09:40
Speaker
Yeah. it looked A lot of those shots looked good. I think back to their, they did that like or A24 commercial. or a two four commercial Is that not the best trailer Marvel has ever done?
01:09:52
Speaker
yeah I thought it was a genius move because it's like, hey, film bros who always talk about this cinematographer. Well, guess what? We got... I appreciated that. But I also watched it and I was like, huh, if you would just let your artist cook on a movie...
01:10:11
Speaker
almost like when you get talented filmmakers and you let them make a movie, yeah things turn out good. Assembly lines aren't the end of the product. yeah I was watching this one saying, so I listen to a guy all the time. going to name drop him.
01:10:27
Speaker
um Who says that Marvel casts directors. They don't hire them. yeah And he says that a lot. And there's a lot of evidence for many of the previous movies to go with that.
01:10:43
Speaker
And a lot of a lot of Disney Marvel has done a successful job of taking like the Rousseau brothers prior to Winter Soldier had directed like episodes of Arrested Development and Parks and Rec.
01:10:56
Speaker
You know, that's what they've done. And then they did Winter Soldier and it was fantastic. They're not out here hiring big name directors to do these movies. No.
01:11:08
Speaker
Go ahead. They get people that that they can mesh with behind the scenes. Basically somebody, what they want is somebody who knows how to control a cast and knows how to point a camera, but can also play ball.
01:11:20
Speaker
yeah And you see that very, when the movies don't work i think those are the ones where the directors didn't play ball and marvel interfered too much so one of the biggest disappointments for me is it actually the marvels because and i know this movie is controversial for a lot of people i thought uh nia da costa i loved her vision and execution of the candyman reboot the story
01:11:53
Speaker
fine. Okay. You're going to have your complaints about the story. I thought that movie was directed insanely well. I thought it was so good. It was a fantastic film.
01:12:06
Speaker
I will revisit that movie just for the atmosphere that she set in that film. She nailed it. And so when I heard she was doing a Marvel movie, I was like, i was initially like, Oh no.
01:12:19
Speaker
yeah Because I knew it was going to be watered down. It was going to be washed out. And I was disappointed. Because if they had let her cook, it probably would have been amazing. Yeah.
01:12:30
Speaker
I will say that I like the Marvels more than Captain Marvel. Not a lot more, but definitely more. Well, that's interesting. It was less boring. I hate the first Captain Marvel. I didn't like it either.
01:12:41
Speaker
It's so boring. The Marvels was at least fun. The message of the first Captain Marvel is that you're good enough as you are, you don't need to change. That's why I hated that movie.
01:12:54
Speaker
Yeah. yeah hated that movie. I can't say i really cared for either one of them, but at some point. Anyways, this one, I thought they let the director cook. You can see it.
01:13:05
Speaker
There is a different visual style to this film than a lot of the previous Marvel installments. I don't want to... Someone's going to hate me for saying this.
01:13:16
Speaker
It looked more like like it was dark. And Snyder used to get compares like hated on. Yes. Yes. I was going to say it looks like a Snyder movie, which I love.
01:13:28
Speaker
i love that. I love Snyder's visual style. I love his like slow-mo and CGI, whatever. Yeah, he does too much of that. But he knows how to compose a shot.
01:13:38
Speaker
He knows how to make art on the screen. So this movie looked more like that than any Marvel movie I've seen. Even Endgame got bogged down with too much CGI. It looks good. But this movie, visually, I was i was impressed with.
01:13:58
Speaker
Yeah. It felt real. It looked like you could feel the world they were in. Yeah. That was another thing. They avoided multiversal stuff, which made me enjoy this heck of a lot more.
01:14:10
Speaker
which also made that post credit scene feel a little bit more special because it wasn't the whole damn thing. Yes. Yes. So any other comments on direction?
01:14:24
Speaker
It did good. Yeah. Yeah. It worked well. I'm a four. can just go three. Four. I'm happy with the four. And the it factor, so the cultural significance of this film.
01:14:37
Speaker
This was a tough one for me. this is I think this is a tough category when we review opening weekend. Yeah. Because there's not a whole lot of information out right now.
01:14:50
Speaker
But I had to score based on the buzz of the moment. So I base mine on the fact that Marvel has had diminished returns for the last six, seven movies. The only one that had legs recently was Guardians 3, which actually kind of plateaued and held out for a while because word of mouth was good.
01:15:17
Speaker
Other than that, each one opens to a smaller opening than the one before it and drops off meteorically the next weekend. I think this movie, after seeing it,
01:15:29
Speaker
is going to have legs. I think people are going to spread good words, go see this one. I don't know that it's going to hit Guardians 3 level of good legs.
01:15:42
Speaker
I don't know. yeah i think this is probably going to cap around the 500, maybe get close to 600 million worldwide by the end of it. But I'll tell you, there's there are a couple other things helping the movie you know with its legs right now.
01:15:57
Speaker
And that's, there are several really good movies out right now that have people coming back to the theater. Thunderbolts is great on its own, but look at what's going on with Sinners. People are going back to that. In Minecraft, people are going back to that.
01:16:09
Speaker
And I know Accountant 2 is not performing great, but there are people that are going to see that. i want to see cat I want to see Accountant 2 for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like I'm going to miss that one in the theaters, unfortunately, but I'm very excited to get to it. But Yeah, I think Thunderbolts is going hold, especially you look Rotten Tomatoes, the audience score right now is like a 95, I think.
01:16:29
Speaker
Yeah, and normally people are digging this if you go to the Rotten Tomatoes and you click on like the all audience, it usually drops significantly versus the like curated audience.
01:16:41
Speaker
It doesn't. The general audience score for this is high. Yeah.
01:16:48
Speaker
I think it goes to show people have been starving for a good Marvel film for a while. It's not that superhero fatigue or movie fatigue. It's bad movie fatigue. Bad movie fatigue.
01:17:00
Speaker
Jonathan, what were you saying? just say It has the potential to be more of a pivotal turning point for Marvel to get them back on track. yeah especially and then like The whole concept of bringing back like your anti-hero kind of set of characters you know I think is is a great way to do that.
01:17:15
Speaker
I think that's going to be really strong for them. Yeah. I don't know. i don't exactly know what takeaways Marvel is going to have from this film.
01:17:28
Speaker
I don't exactly know how they could get bad takeaways from it because there's nothing there's nothing in this movie that if they repeat again, i well i don't want them to repeat it again.
01:17:40
Speaker
But like the things that I think worked in this movie are a unique story with the most original final act I've seen in a Marvel film.
01:17:50
Speaker
It's very different than any Marvel film. Also, letting the director direct the movie. Make something that is unique.
01:18:01
Speaker
And having a solid story as your foundation. And a visual flair. i I never heard the press talk about Thunderbolts goes goes into rewrites.
01:18:13
Speaker
Thunderbolts has six weeks of reshoots. Thunderbolts director out. I never heard any of that. I heard Thunderbolts was happening. This is the cast. And then it just like they let the movie be made.
01:18:28
Speaker
They did the damn thing. Yeah. Yeah. The only the Steven Yeun casting is the only thing. And I forgot about that. no And that wasn't even their fault. That was the writer's strike that just caused the schedules to not line up.
01:18:40
Speaker
Yeah. So it's almost like Marvel. If you just let the movie be made, you might end up with some better stuff. You might. not going to say you will.
01:18:51
Speaker
I'm not going to say you will. I think this is the first step in in a four movie like consecutive win for them. Because i personally, I believe Fantastic Four is going to do well. I'm liking everything I'm seeing from it. i i don't know if I'm wrong for having confidence, but I'm kind of excited.
01:19:10
Speaker
For Avengers, Doomsday, and Secret Wars? Did they not? Oh, Russo's back. Yeah. I want to see some Secret Wars action. I've been waiting a long time for some Secret Wars. want to see something I'm nervous. I'd love to see something hit.
01:19:23
Speaker
I'm optimistic, but I'm nervous about Secret Wars. Because I'm done with the multiverse, but also, like, let's just do it. Let's get it over with. I'm afraid that it's going to be too dry by the time we get to it, though.
01:19:35
Speaker
a But... But... I worry...
01:19:42
Speaker
depending on how they do this Robert Downey Jr thing we'll see um I was not excited about the casting I thought it was pandering it's like hey we're struggling let's bring back your favorite and I was like meh But if they write it to where this Doctor Doom is an alternate universe, Tony, it's a big stray from the comics.
01:20:05
Speaker
I get it. But for this, it could work to hit some pretty good emotional cues and play into the characters who knew Tony. And it could be interesting.
01:20:17
Speaker
I'm cautiously optimistic. You could get some great stuff between Tom Holland and Doctor Doom. Hopefully he's even in the movie though. They haven't announced him in the cast.
01:20:29
Speaker
They haven't announced him. And that's what makes me like, man, that's, I always hated Tony being in the Spider-Man movies. Just let Peter Parker be Peter Parker. Quit making him Iron Man Jr. But anyways, so it factor for me, I did go pretty low.
01:20:49
Speaker
Because I don't think the cultural buzz is there for this movie. That could change in the next couple weeks. I'm already seeing this weekend positive talk about it.
01:21:01
Speaker
The one guys that I listen to all the time... didn't have positive talk about it but i think they're just like they've made their name for crapping on everything that gets released so so i think it's they're just it's popular to hate on stuff lately yeah i don't think this movie is entirely deserving i don't think it's deserving of hate i can understand why you don't why you dislike certain things but this movie i think it's gonna have pretty positive buzz i went with a three based more on Marvel's recent downward trajectory than anything this movie actually deserves.
01:21:38
Speaker
I don't think people are turning out like they used to. Hmm.
01:21:45
Speaker
I... know you go you know You go ahead, Jonathan, because I got something to say outside of... yeah but You go ahead, and I'll do mine. Yeah, i'm I'm skeptical about it, about what kind of impact it's going to have. i Like I said, as much as I enjoyed it and how it may affect MCU and the MCU universe and all that, I'm sitting at a three on it.
01:22:08
Speaker
I'm going to go as high as a four, because of this movie tackles a lot of like mental health issues. And I think but you do have to take any into consideration the way that the younger generation right now views mental health.
01:22:24
Speaker
I think this is a movie that is going to latch on to that Gen Z millennial generation. We're going to see it down the road. I don't think we're going see it right now, but give it six months, give it a year.
01:22:38
Speaker
I think there's a lot of people are going to turn to this and be like, this superhero movie actually kind of spoke to me a little bit because it it does very appropriately discuss mental health.
01:22:48
Speaker
So I, I think that cultural impact isn't going to happen overnight, but it's going to come. i I think you're, I think you're onto something there. I do think there are many movies where the cultural impact has been changed because of time.
01:23:04
Speaker
For instance, um, Last Halloween, we did John Carpenter's The Thing, which kind of flopped at the box office and is now yeah legendary status. so Pretty much every Carpenter movie did i can't agree I can agree with you there.
01:23:21
Speaker
i do think this... i I think it'll have legs. I think it's going to be talked about after. I don't hear people talking about the Marvels anymore, but I'm going to hear people talk about how this movie surprised them.
01:23:33
Speaker
So i also our final overall out of 10, this is just a casual, like if you're scoring this movie, what was your entertainment value, your final thoughts on it, and anything else you have to say before we wrap it up?
01:23:51
Speaker
Adam, go for it. Sounds like you had something else were going to say anyhow. Well, I was going to say, did you guys want to talk about that post-credits scene before we wrap it up? oh Oh, okay. Yeah. I wanted to address that in the impactor. So Brian, yeah good thank you.
01:24:03
Speaker
um Well, not necessarily post-credits scene, the final reveal of the movie. So big spoilers coming up. The Thunderbolts asterisk is that that's not their name.
01:24:16
Speaker
Yes. I love that. Their name is the new Avengers. And while ah that's revealed sitting in the theater, the people behind me go, ah and I'm like, what no, I am excited about this.
01:24:34
Speaker
So the new Avengers is Brian Michael Bendis, major comic book art mu writer, mostly known for doing the Ultimate Spider-Man in 2000 that was released.
01:24:51
Speaker
Basically a jumping on point um for people that coincided with the release of Sam Raimi's trilogies. So...
01:25:03
Speaker
that's where he kind of got his big start in comic book but since then he's gone on to do a lot he created was kind of he created miles morales who at the time it was kind of controversial that miles was being created whatever i love the character miles morales yeah any book written by brian michael bendis about miles morales is excellent reading you go back and you read it it's an alternate universe Spider-Man Peter Parker dies there is a need for a Spider-Man and the way it was written it works it's fantastic storytelling excellent but then Brian kind of got stuck in this idea of can you do that again and then we get like Riri Williams and Ironheart
01:25:53
Speaker
and this idea should just keep bringing out these characters but brian was the one who came up with the idea of the new avengers so it debuted well it debuted in 2005 and i want to say it was a spin-off of the long-running avengers where for some reason the leaders of... I got it on Wookie.
01:26:31
Speaker
They were a sanctioned government team, but I want to say they were created because the main Avengers were ah bit absent. And so the government created the new Avengers.
01:26:43
Speaker
And so this movie is one of the best... versions of following the comic books that i've seen marvel do in a while they kind of take ideas and run with it but like red hulk should have been a hulk movie not a captain america movie uh thor ragnarok was based on world war hulk which was should have been a fantastic hulk movie but was a thor film you know ah so marvel takes these ideas and changes them so michael takes these ideas and changes them
01:27:16
Speaker
But New Avengers was actually one of their best at taking, cast might be slightly different, but the idea of a government formed version of the Avengers in the Avengers absence has been around since 2005. And I'm here for it.
01:27:33
Speaker
I liked it. They are supposed to be like they say in the end credit scene that no one's taking them seriously. That is their thing. They are the B group.
01:27:46
Speaker
I loved the end credits to this so much. I remember when the credits were rolling, i texted my buddy. He hasn't seen the movie yet, but I just told him, I said, the end credits of this movie and the reveal of that asterisk almost makes the last five and a half years of disappointing Marvel feel intentional.
01:28:06
Speaker
Like they had us in such a dour spot and what this movie does during the credits makes me throw my hands up and say, you know what? I accept it. Let's move forward because I like what we're doing.
01:28:19
Speaker
I like this a lot. at At the end of the movie, this is a team I want to see again. yeah. I definitely will see what they what they come up with for them, for sure.
01:28:30
Speaker
And I have confidence that we're going to see them again, unlike a lot of post-credit scenes which are like, cool, Hercules, thanks for showing up to set for one day. We'll never see you again.
01:28:41
Speaker
Or seeing glimpse of of of Howard the Duck and then like, okay, we're going to see him again. Yeah. Or maybe Excalibur at the end of. What
01:28:55
Speaker
what is his name? Henry Stiles playing Excalibur at the end of Eternals. And we'll never see that again. No plans. We never see him again. I, oh my God.
01:29:06
Speaker
oh my god that that's never come back they did the new Avengers will return i genuinely have not been that excited about a Marvel thing in a long time even Guardians 3 I enjoyed the crap out of it was an emotional experience it was a great cap to that trilogy Marvel it's up there with Marvel's best trilogy I typically said Captain America has the best Marvel trilogy, but I think Guardians' second movie is pretty weak.
01:29:41
Speaker
um I used to agree with you on that, but lately it's really grown on me. but that Guardians 2 is very impactful to me. that's ah That's a movie about a son's relationship with his father, and I got a whole thing there.
01:29:57
Speaker
So I love the Guardians trilogy. Because it's the first movie's about a mom, second movie's about a dad, third movie's about a friend. Those are all things that just like really tear me up. so I need to give the second one need to give the second one a watch. It's been a while.
01:30:12
Speaker
But I remember thinking the third one was a fantastic way. But it was bittersweet because it was a farewell. Yeah. It was a farewell. So that is something Marvel hasn't really done is a farewell outside of Endgame when we farewell Tony, farewell Captain America.
01:30:30
Speaker
Farewell to all these people that we're going to see again. Yes, exactly. So this one, though, I'm excited to see him again. um yeah they they I bought into this team.
01:30:42
Speaker
Yeah. And and just the the context of that post-credits scene on its own, of them talking about the rift in space. like we're Doomsday is happening outside those walls right now.
01:30:53
Speaker
And it was so exciting to feel that because you know there's something going on that we're going find out in a year. love the way that Bucky looked. So, so 90s with that big hair.
01:31:05
Speaker
I love John Walker just not giving a shit. There's a rift in space and he doesn't care. Yelena's trying her best. Red Guardian's getting sponsorship ads.
01:31:16
Speaker
And then we see on the screen, yeah we see the Fantastic Four ship which I have now seen a hundred times from rewatching that trailer.
01:31:27
Speaker
And just as it tilts and we see the four, oh man, I'm here for it. Yes, it did. i I'm so apprehensive.
01:31:38
Speaker
I'm so apprehensive about it that I'm just like, I don't know about this Fantastic Four. If Fantastic Four ends up to be amazing, that's going to change this scene for me. ah hope so. Yeah. oh we'll We'll see.
01:31:50
Speaker
We'll see. I'm still very nervous. I'm still very nervous about it. But this movie has given me more hope. Yeah. It's given me more hope. So my my final score on this film, I'm a bit surprised by it.
01:32:06
Speaker
But my final score, and for anybody just tuning in, we had three viewers at one point. um the I based the 10 for me, the difference between a 9 and a 10.
01:32:19
Speaker
9 means I enjoyed the crap out of it, but I don't want to watch it again immediately. 10 means I would put this movie on repeat. And I would want to experience it again. At this point, I walked out of the theater checking to see when tomorrow's show times were.
01:32:36
Speaker
Really? Because I wanted to go back to it. I wanted to see it again as soon as the credits rolled. And for me, that means it's a 10.
01:32:48
Speaker
I enjoyed, like, I think I've been pretty fair. Like, the script isn't a five out of five. Things aren't perfect in this film. But it has been so long since I went to the movie theater and had not just a good time, but an emotional ride for a Marvel film.
01:33:09
Speaker
And I thought it was a little bit slow getting off its feet, the walking up the shoot thing. I was like, can we speed this up? But by the end of it, I wasn't even thinking about that.
01:33:19
Speaker
By the end of it, i was... all in loving it. It almost ended too soon by the end of it. I, it was almost too quick, but I think that was a good play on something. You're not exactly sure how this group of characters is going to be received.
01:33:36
Speaker
So let's keep it simple. I think it was good choice, but you you want to know something funny. You talk about a little slow in the beginning. i My theater, the projector broke 31 minutes into the movie.
01:33:50
Speaker
It took them about 15 minutes to get a fix. Once they got a fix, they had to restart the movie. So I saw the the first half hour of this movie twice. Nice. Okay. All right. Yeah. And it held up the second time.
01:34:02
Speaker
It was still good. Okay. i was like, did half of your audience leave or did they stick around? ah They yelled a lot. They yelled, but they stayed.
01:34:12
Speaker
i believe that. No chicken jockeys. No. Chicken fights. Yeah. Good times. Yeah. yeah But I am surprised. I am surprised to say that it was a 10 out of 10 for me.
01:34:25
Speaker
i would watch this movie again. I told my wife last night that I was double checking show times again. i want to i want to see it again. First time I wanted to see another Marvel theater ah marvel movie in the theater.
01:34:37
Speaker
And I'm not counting Deadpool Wolverine. That's a Fox property that Disney is putting their name on. This one had a lot of Marvel in it. but it also had a lot of Ryan Reynolds in it, which was why Deadpool was successful.
01:34:54
Speaker
So, ah and the things that made the Deadpool Wolverine movie, a Marvel movie were the worst parts of the Deadpool Wolverine film. I'll agree.
01:35:04
Speaker
I love them. I saw that movie in the theater three times, but I'll agree. wow the the I really liked that one too. It is a good movie. It is a good movie. I enjoy that. i would help have go i would on it Yeah.
01:35:18
Speaker
You haven't seen that one, Jonathan? No, I've seen Wolverine Deadpool for sure. oh I love the hell out of that movie. Like said, it's a movie that I would totally own. I would have i love to have that my collection. I'd be all for that. I enjoy that one for the bromance more than any other anything else happening in the movie. The Honda Odyssey fight scene, dude.
01:35:34
Speaker
Like how he rags the Honda fight. He's Odyssey fucks. The score for that movie is fantastic too. I've listened to some tracks from that film on repeat at times, yeah.
01:35:47
Speaker
yeah I also think Sean Levy is... He did better with the action scenes in that than some of the action scenes in this movie, I would say.
01:35:58
Speaker
He's got an eye for it. so Anyways, I'm surprised, but I'm a 10 on this one. someone else could be part of it um i'm not gonna I wouldn't go see it again right away. i need time for stuff to sink and to play out my mind before I want to watch it a second time.
01:36:14
Speaker
so I'm sitting at pretty high a nine.
01:36:18
Speaker
I guess based on on your score system, I guess I would fall into a 10. ah But I don't think you and i have the same 1 to 10 ratio.
01:36:30
Speaker
um i Yeah. i Based on my general rating, I would give it an 8 because it is something that I would really want to see again. um i would love to go back and see it right away. i just don't i don't think that's a 10 out of 10 for me. An 8 out of 10 feels very good.
01:36:48
Speaker
Okay. So altogether, that makes... Jonathan, what was your final score? All my stuff totaled altogether puts me at a 38. 38? Yep.
01:36:58
Speaker
Okay. Adam, I have you at a 39. Okay. okay Then I'm at a 40, so we are all right there. And that puts our final score at a 39.
01:37:11
Speaker
I didn't need a calculator to figure that out, but I used it anyways. um puts us at a 39 which would average out to four stars out of five and i think that's fairly accurate for this movie so four out of four out of five that's an 80 yeah that's right yep so that is that is what i think um if you're made it all the way through this episode uh i think it's worth going to see in theaters if you've been burned out on marvel lately
01:37:41
Speaker
if your're If you don't think they've done much good since Endgame, I encourage you to go back for this one. Maybe read up, do some wiki articles on who John Walker is.
01:37:53
Speaker
Maybe a little bit of a recap on Ghost, who some of these characters are. But you don't need to. They briefly tell you enough. They give you can do everything you need right there, yeah.
01:38:04
Speaker
ye So, final words. I think to see this on the biggest screen, you can. just because of the ending when the void is taking over New York, that imagery and the sound design during that sequence warrants a big screen, warrants big speakers.
01:38:22
Speaker
I think this is going to be amazing to watch again at home, but I think the first time you need to see the void as big as you can. Wasn't it over in 3D?
01:38:32
Speaker
I don't know. i have I don't have two functional eyes, so I can't see three okay I thought it was available in 3D, but I was like, that's not for me. No, I don't like 3D. I know it was on IMAX.
01:38:45
Speaker
that would be yeah That would be a good experience.
01:38:49
Speaker
Jonathan, final you have final thoughts on it? I think it's a super kick-ass film. I would recommend everyone and anyone to go watch it. there's There's so much to it. there's There's a lot of feels, lot of great action, some fun humor into it. you know It's got a nice all-around feel to it.
01:39:07
Speaker
Alright. I completely agree. I was genuinely surprised and excited to report that this is a good Marvel film. I was excited to come out with positive things to say. It's not a perfect movie, but it is everything that I want from a Marvel movie.
01:39:29
Speaker
it's It's phase three level good. I would say, yeah. yeah right yep so Jonathan, ready read us out? Let's do this, bro.
01:39:40
Speaker
hey That's going to wrap it up for our Thunderbolts review. Huge thanks to Adam for joining us and bringing the heat to the discussion today. Absolutely. And thanks to you for listening, watching, scoring, and sending in your thoughts.
01:39:55
Speaker
Whether you loved it, hated it, or landed somewhere in the middle, that's what the average is all about. So don't forget, you can grab one of our three scoring cards on Instagram and add your own voice to the mix.
01:40:07
Speaker
Comment your score, debate ours, and tell us where Thunderbolts lands on your MCU list. And while you're at it, like, follow, subscribe, all that good stuff. You know the drill.
01:40:18
Speaker
New episodes are always better when you're here with us. Because this is the average where the real review happens with your friends. And sometimes those friends are super soldiers, assassins, and morally questionable anti-heroes just to try and keep the MCU lights on. Hey, whatever it takes.
01:40:36
Speaker
Catch you next time.
01:40:41
Speaker
Okay.