Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Psychedelics, Spirituality, and Healing
381 Plays1 year ago
Psychedelics are experiencing a renaissance worldwide as government-funded clinical trials are showing how these substances can heal in ways that traditional medicines cannot. It seems we’re on the edge of a paradigm-shifting breakthrough in mental health, especially, but also in spirituality.
In this episode, Kevin shares his perspectives on this trend after spending several years providing integrative support and coaching to first responders, special forces members, and those who have sought healing through psychedelic-assisted therapy.
* Join us at Little Soul School, a community of people dedicated to soul growth, soul learning, and accessing the Akashic Records, a place that hold all of our souls’ histories—everything we’ve done in all of our lifetimes. If you’re looking for a deeper connection to yourself and a place to experiment and learn in a non-judgmental, open community of people, join us at https://littlesoul.school. No woo-woo, no fluff. Just fun and connection.
Come check it out at https://littlesoul.school
Follow Laura Coe:
Website: www.lauracoe.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/laurascoe/
Follow Kevin Kaiser:
Website: www.kevinkaiser.co
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevinkaiser.co
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Soul School and Psychedelics
00:00:00
Speaker
You're listening to Soul School with Laura Ko and Kevin Kaiser. On this show, we dive into life's biggest questions. Who are we? What are we here to do? And how can we fearlessly live as our truest, deepest selves? Soul School is the spiritual education you never received. So if you're ready, join us as we explore together. Soul School is in session.
00:00:26
Speaker
Hello and welcome back to Soul School. I'm here with Kevin for another wonderful conversation. Today, we are covering the elusive and sexy world of psychedelics. Hi, Kevin, how are you? Hey, Laura, and hello SoulFam, everybody out there. I'm excited about this conversation.
00:00:48
Speaker
I am too. It is just such a fascinating topic. It's like hidden in the open, whatever that phrase is, hidden in plain sight. It's like everywhere I go, people are whispering, talking about it, doing it.
00:01:05
Speaker
Um, yet it feels a little elusive and secretive still cause it's not fully approved, but I know this is something you've been doing and working on and we talk about it offline a lot.
Personal Experience with Psychedelic Therapy
00:01:16
Speaker
So Kevin, like just kick the show off with a little.
00:01:21
Speaker
background for people who are perhaps interested, but new, you know, what's the history of the psychedelic movement in the States? Why did this get thrown back? I think like 50 years, right? Like, I mean, jokes aside, this was really a wonderful thing that got buried. You've been working in the psychedelic community coaching, doing integrative coaching for a while. So could you
00:01:50
Speaker
help catch people up who who are new to it. Yeah, absolutely. Sure. And I'll give everybody just a little bit of context for like, how, how and why I have a perspective on this. Probably, let me think 2016 2017. I started receiving referrals from these practitioners, people that were doing psychedelic assisted therapy for
00:02:18
Speaker
different groups of people, everybody ranging from military, special forces, people that were coming home with anti-depressant, resistant PTSD and depression, to really well-known business people that were seeking these sort of transcendent spiritual experiences.
00:02:38
Speaker
So they would go to these sort of underground practitioners, have these psychedelic experiences. Most of them would have these really big mystical experiences, but then they wouldn't really know what to do with these insights that they had.
00:02:52
Speaker
And so these clinics and practitioners would refer those people to me so I could support them in what we call integrative coaching. So essentially the ability to integrate those insights into your life, into meaningful change. So I've been doing that not exclusively, but it's part of what I do. So what I'm about to talk about comes from years of experience and working with hundreds of people.
00:03:21
Speaker
So just so that everybody knows this isn't from a book. Yeah. And Kevin, I'm just going to test. I mean, he calls me and tells me the inside scoop, which we probably can't share, but lots and lots of really, really complex, interesting and dynamic experiences. I mean, this is a very profound, very dynamic.
Historical Context and Modern Research
00:03:39
Speaker
Yeah. And I would tell people if you want a really quick overview, there's a docu series on Netflix called How to Change Your Mind.
00:03:47
Speaker
I was going to bring that up. That's awesome. It's really good. And it's based on the book by Michael Pollan of the same name that came out several years ago, all around the science of psychedelics and consciousness. And he gives you a really good history of this stuff because psychedelics or people call them sacred plant medicines had been around forever.
00:04:10
Speaker
I mean, there's evidence of them being used in every single civilization, actually, back as far as we can find. And back in the 40s, I think it was,
00:04:27
Speaker
psychedelics were actually part of modern psychiatry. LSD was used in nearly every psychiatric clinic in the world to help treat depression, help people who are alcoholics to not be alcoholics or to quit smoking.
00:04:49
Speaker
And it was so widespread, used widely because there was such clinical data around, oh, this stuff actually works. And then the sixties happened and the hippie generation happened. Timothy Leary, you know, tune in, tune out, drop out.
00:05:10
Speaker
Um, and then Richard Nixon got really concerned about, uh, why these people are, uh, we need to control this because they needed, here's my perspective. The government needed people to want to go to war so that they could win the Vietnam war, but people were beginning to see that, Oh, well, war is not the only solution to everything. This is a really simplified version. War is not the answer to everything and we're not going to go to war. So it's really hard to.
00:05:37
Speaker
have a war without soldiers. And so, you know, one of the solutions was, well, let's, let's create a war on drugs. And at this point, there'd already been lots and lots of medical and clinical research being done on how can you actually use these compounds in a healthy, a healthy, productive way in all of that shut off, shut down in the 70s.
00:06:05
Speaker
And so it wasn't until the 90s when a guy named Rick Strassman, and actually another guy, Rick Doblin, who runs MAPS, got approval from the US government to start doing research again with some of these substances. Rick Strassman was working with DMT. Rick Doblin was working with MDMA, which most people know as ecstasy. And recently in the past couple of years,
00:06:33
Speaker
Molly. Yeah. And recently in the... For the younger folks. For the kids. For the kids. Molly. But a couple years ago, the FDA approved trials around especially MDMA and around psilocybin, which is magic mushrooms, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms,
00:06:59
Speaker
there was undeniable clinical data around people that were having, like soldiers were coming home on 15 or 16 different medications, their depression wasn't getting any better, suicide rates were going up. Well, once people had these psychedelic assisted therapy sessions, so we're talking about just a couple sessions assisted by a therapist,
00:07:27
Speaker
They would be able to deal with the trauma in a way that was really productive, and the results were durable. So six months later, nine months later, they no longer even qualified to be defined as depressed.
00:07:45
Speaker
Um, and so, so I've witnessed this firsthand. Um, I've worked with a lot of soldiers. I've worked with guys that are, uh, former SEAL team six members Delta force. I mean, these are the people that are, um, doing all of the shadow, like shadow work in the world, uh, coming home, being really depressed.
00:08:08
Speaker
not able to function and then being in these therapeutic sessions and having experiences where they're no longer depressed, they're no longer suicidal. Not only that, but they're actually beginning to have these experiences where they're beginning to ask the question, well, what am I?
Understanding Psychedelics and Cultural Perspectives
00:08:31
Speaker
who am I actually, because a lot of these people are having big mystical experiences, which is actually where the word psychedelic comes from. It was coined by a psychiatrist named Humphrey Osbend, who was trying to come up with a word to describe what his patients were experiencing, because it's two Greek words, psyche, which is the Greek word for the mind or the soul, and delos, which means to make manifest or reveal.
00:08:57
Speaker
because some people like their deep subconscious was coming up to be healed and some people were having these deep mystical experiences. And so I've seen both where people have these psychedelic experiences and they essentially what they're seeing is their true nature. And they're going, wow, I'm not my past. I'm not what happened to me. So if I'm not what happened to me, that means I can be free of it. I can heal from it.
00:09:25
Speaker
But then I'm also not just a body or mind. Like I had this other experience. What is that? So there's some really cool stuff happening. I get excited about it.
00:09:38
Speaker
I love it. No. And that Netflix, you did a great job of summarizing the details. But if you want that deeper dive, it's so fascinating, you know, the history of this, everything that went into it. And then in your experience, you know, watching it play out. And I think the thing that I mean, of course, you know, it's it's rampant in our social circles and people are doing it in, you know, all sorts of arenas.
00:10:05
Speaker
What would you say is the benefit of it? Because we have a bias or a stigma towards drugs and the idea of harming ourselves or kids just doing it for fun and going to raves or whatever. So this is meant to be helpful, as you said, for PTSD or
00:10:26
Speaker
depression, or all these different issues, or even just having an understanding of the true nature of self. But how do I say this?
00:10:38
Speaker
A lot of people still have that relationship to it as a drug that is bad and wrong. And then secondly, so how do you think about that? And then secondly, is it really mostly for treating medical sort of psychological issues or is it really more of an opportunity to have a mystical opportunity?
00:11:04
Speaker
And then I want to ask you about, based on your answer from that, and then what, right? Because you do the integration coaching. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, those are really great questions. So the answer to the first question is, we all have cultural conditioning around morality.
00:11:27
Speaker
Because if you would ask most people, is it the same people that would say psychedelics are wrong or the same people that are having two or three drinks a night?
00:11:40
Speaker
Right. So alcohol by a magnitude scale greater kills more people than than psychedelic. So it's just more culturally acceptable. Same thing with smoking. Smoking shifted right over the years. And so now more people say smoking is bad for you than good. Yeah. Which is why these clinical trials are so important because people need
00:12:08
Speaker
actual information, like this has to be a real, these have to be real outcomes. So that said, yeah, there are people who aren't using these in really helpful settings. They're using them recreationally, right? They're buying drugs off the street, which actually probably, it's not a great idea because of things like fentanyl. So what I'm talking about is
00:12:38
Speaker
like the professional safe use within a safe setting that has the intention for healing, whether that be from something like depression or healing from your own sense of mistaken sense of self. Because from my perspective, the mysticism of one era
00:13:08
Speaker
becomes the commonplace scientific knowledge of the next era. So if you think about, like people used to look at electricity and think, well, this is, you know, this is from Thor's hammer, right? We now know how electricity works, you know, how electromagnetism works. We know how weather patterns work, how atmospheric pressure works, all of those kinds of things. Nobody knows actually how these compounds work in the brain.
00:13:35
Speaker
There is this through line, this common through line though, between a lot of these experiences, no matter what the compound is, whether it fits something like MDMA or mushrooms, or people talk about ayahuasca down in the jungle, and it's this. It's just like what Humphrey Osman said, that it's psychedelic. It reveals the nature of somebody's identity.
00:14:04
Speaker
Which actually is, from my perspective, that actually is the definition of awakening. It is the recognition of your true self.
00:14:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So, okay. I'm going to go here because- Go for it. You and I have talked about it and I want to hear you chat about it. But one of the things we both experienced though is that, okay, great. So they go, they have this experience of true self. And in that experience, they decide
00:14:35
Speaker
going to be billionaires. They're going to be the next greatest everything. And it's really just more of an egoic, it's like ego on steroids, right? So how can somebody go in, think they're seeing the true nature of themselves when in fact it's like this very strange sort of blown up egoic response. I've had this with a few people and it's led them to even more depression in certain ways because
00:15:04
Speaker
They rose up so high and then down they went. What is that? Yeah, totally. I've seen the exact same thing. I should say that I'm not a proponent or an opponent of this. This is not for everybody. Just like going and sitting in a sweat lodge is not for everybody or going into yoga is for everybody. Yoga is probably a bad example. Everybody should do yoga.
00:15:33
Speaker
That's a good thing. I'm such a yoga pusher. I love yoga.
00:15:40
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, there's this concept of set and setting, which is mindset, like your mindset going into an experience and then the setting, which makes a big difference too, right? Whether you're having an experience at a rave in an abandoned warehouse on some drug that you bought from Timmy out in the parking lot versus a really safe place, more like what they're doing at Johns Hopkins, right?
00:16:08
Speaker
with end-of-life people and mushrooms and But what is it so that the mindset that people bring to it in a lot of ways sets up It's kind of the prologue to the experience
00:16:24
Speaker
And I've seen this in, you know, people who maybe hear about psychedelics on something like the Tim Ferriss podcast or some podcast, right? Where they begin to think, Oh, well, this is a really great way to optimize my life, to kind of life hack myself to more productivity. And so they go into it with the intention already of like, I've got a specific, I have a specific outcome in mind and it's to make me more awesome.
00:16:54
Speaker
And I've seen people come out of that. I had one guy that I coached who said, you know, after this experience, I've decided I'm going to become the most enlightened person on the planet. That's like, that's now my new goal. And I was like, you got to really be careful what you ask for, because if that's what you want, you know, just just wait for the lessons to come. You know, and then I'm like, man, it's a bumpy road.
00:17:22
Speaker
Good luck with that, right? And so everybody's experience is different. I find that the people that have the most productive experiences are the ones who come to it with this humility around, like, I really want to heal what it is that's blocking me. Or they come at it from the perspective of, I really want to know who I am.
00:17:48
Speaker
And I don't have any preconceived notion of what it should look like. Most of those people have already done a lot of work over the course of their lives. And this is just one other way for them to explore it.
The Importance of Mindset and Integration
00:18:02
Speaker
And usually those who approach it with the most humility, I say get the most out of it, but even that's the wrong way of saying it.
00:18:15
Speaker
It's kind of like soil that's really well prepared to receive something planted into it. And I've seen the opposite. Yeah, you know, it's sort of coming to mind as you're speaking, is this idea, right, that
00:18:30
Speaker
we're all in our journey. And so even as I think about the person who perhaps wants to be the most enlightened or wants to be a billionaire and confronting ego in a mystical moment and thinking it's mystical when it's just a
00:18:46
Speaker
larger egoic, that is their journey. And for them, it isn't a healing, it isn't a mystical experience, it isn't a surrender and a release. And kind of something we talk about a lot on this podcast is the process into enlightenment, right? Adashanti talks about it all the time, that there's no one way to do it. Some people it happens in an instant in a moment, some people it happens over
00:19:10
Speaker
hundreds of small things over 10 years, other people, it's like a bumpy road for five years, like there's, he hates even talking about his own process, because he's like, if I say it, then you're going to think there's a framework for enlightenment, right? And so each of us are going at it in our own way. And
00:19:28
Speaker
I guess the person who comes with a more limited view of what they need is getting exactly what they need, though, because then they go up and they fall harder. Well, you know, I think about
00:19:43
Speaker
I think about the psychedelic space and I think about, I was a healthcare tech entrepreneur for a long time and the medical industry, for better, for worse, it does in fact take the guessing out of the hands of the person who isn't
00:20:01
Speaker
Well right so you don't go to the doctor and tell them you are put through a battery of tests and the doctor then he's often raised think you have a terrible problem and they're like you're actually fine and you know you're having a panic attack and other times you like I think I'm fine it's like.
00:20:19
Speaker
Oh my God, you have like stage four cancer or something, right? Like our understanding of what's happening within us isn't always aligned to what the medical tests show. And what I really am excited about with this new set of opportunities
00:20:36
Speaker
is that it takes some of it out of the person who is sitting there, fighting with their brain, trying to get, you know, people want breakthroughs, they go to therapy, they read books, they're looking, they're seeking, but it's very hard to get through this barrier of self. And so done in the right way with the right environment,
00:20:58
Speaker
you can really attain a certain level of understanding quicker, right? And get to know yourself more. And then there's this question of integration, right? So one of the things you work on is integration because while it's really exciting, and I say this about the Akashic Records too, you know, people come in and they're like blown away, such profound insights. And then, you know, it's what you make of it though, you know, if you, I've done it,
00:21:27
Speaker
you just leave that information out there, it doesn't really integrate. Let's chat a little bit about integration. What does it mean to integrate information post-segadelics, and then why is that so important? Yeah. I would say it's a wonderful question. Whenever people come to me who have had these kinds of experiences and need help integrating, I use the word integration and embodiment.
00:21:55
Speaker
interchangeably, because it's the same thing. It's, you know, you it's great you have these insights. You can even swap out a psychedelic experience for like going to a Tony Robbins conference, right? So you have the insights, like, oh, wow, like there's more, more is possible. There are these things that I need, I want to evolve in myself.
00:22:19
Speaker
And then I go home, great, I have this insight. But until I really reflect on and understand that, and then begin to make new conscious choices, it's just an idea in my head. It's just potential that's in my head.
00:22:36
Speaker
And that's all I mean when I'm talking to people about integration. So it's like with the Akashic record, somebody sees they get information or guidance that they're stuck.
00:22:50
Speaker
making, you know, they're stuck in fear, and this fear is causing them to make this choice, this choice, and this choice. And it's an invitation to see that, to understand it, and then to begin making new choices, right? In the process of making those choices, actually in the action of making the choices, you're actually being that person.
00:23:12
Speaker
you're integrating that information and you're wrapping it in your, you're wrapping your skin around it. And that's all it is. Yeah. Okay. Well, here's the big question as we wrap up. Okay. People are out there. They're like, where do I
00:23:32
Speaker
Like, I'm just putting you on the spot. But a lot of people are looking for it and they're going to, um, yeah, strange resources, right? It's, it's very much this underground community of people. So I know you don't want everybody reaching out to you specifically for this process, or maybe you do, but, um, what would you suggest to somebody who wants to try this, get involved with it, but is afraid of reaching out to the wrong people, getting involved, you know, involved with fentanyl or whatever. It's, it's actually quite serious.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's very serious. As a matter of fact, there were some stats that I saw from the DEA recently that said something like 90% of the MDMA that they had confiscated off the street was not MDMA at all.
00:24:17
Speaker
that it was a bunch of other stuff cut together and almost all of it had fentanyl in it. So don't just go buy this stuff. That's a really bad idea. So where does somebody start?
00:24:37
Speaker
There are places outside of the country, outside of the United States where psychedelics are
Legal Retreats and Resources
00:24:44
Speaker
legal and their retreat centers set up for various kinds of things. Jamaica, I saw Australia just made MDMA and psilocybin legal. So they have an entire industry around that now.
00:24:44
Speaker
So
00:25:04
Speaker
I live in Oregon where last year resolution 109 was passed, which actually created a therapeutic psilocybin industry. And so people are beginning, therapy centers are beginning to open where mushrooms are being used by clinically trained professionals. So there are opportunities that are becoming more and more available.
00:25:29
Speaker
MDMA itself will probably be prescribed starting in 2024 because the FDA trials are finishing up. They just turned in Rick Doblin and maps just turned in, I believe, all of their phase, their last phase trial results. So given another year, this is this is literally going to be everywhere in the United States more than likely. So if somebody has patients, I say, wait,
00:25:59
Speaker
There you go. If they have found a way and they're looking for integrative coaching, this is still something that you actively do. Yeah.
00:26:08
Speaker
I do, yeah, it's not all I do, but if somebody needs that kind of help, they could just reach out to me, just visit my website, KevinKaiser.co. And if I'm not available to help, I know some of the best people in the world who do this that serve that way.
00:26:31
Speaker
Well, fantastic. You heard it from Kevin. All the beautiful stuff coming to help heal, to open us up, to resurrect this incredible amount of this wealth of information truly that got buried for all the wrong reasons. Check out that Netflix. It blew my mind. Thank you, Kevin, so much for sharing. You're welcome. My pleasure.
00:26:54
Speaker
Thanks for listening to this week's episode, and I really hope that you consider checking out the Little Soul School, LittleSoul.school, where there's a community of people dedicated to soul growth, soul learning, and the Akashic energy, a space that holds all of our soul's histories, everything we've ever done in all of our lifetimes.
00:27:17
Speaker
because they're looking for a deeper connection to themselves, a place to experiment and play with spirituality in a non-judgmental, vulnerable, open community of people. No woo-woo, no fluff, just fun and connection. Come check it out, littlesoul.school.