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"Dustings" 2-26: Storm Contractor Survey Part 3, What products do contractors want?
426 Plays4 days ago
Jordan Smith of Storm Equipment joins the guys as they go over part 3 of the Storm Equipment 2024 Contractor Survey. In this episode Jordan discusses what they survey said about what types of innovation and products contractors are looking for in 2025
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Contractor Survey Discussion
00:00:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, let's get it, Snow Jobs Nation. We are back. Steve and Jeremy bringing you another dustings episode. That's what we do. Snow contractors need the information. We're bringing it to you.
00:00:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
And we said dustings. So as always, if we're doing dustings, you know who is with us.
00:00:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mr. Jordan Smith of Storm Equipment. What's up, Jordan? How are we?
00:00:58
Jordan Smith
What up boys? Good to see you again.
00:01:00
RICK JAMES
Hey, Jordan. Yeah.
00:01:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Long time no see.
00:01:03
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it seems like this happens. but Schedules just don't wanna line up, but I appreciate you guys working late.
00:01:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
I know. Nope.
00:01:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, no problem.
00:01:10
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:01:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
No problem. This is what we do. You've got the information. We need it. We need to get it out there. so you know, whenever we can do it, we'll do it. So what are we doing tonight? We're doing part three of your contractor survey, correct?
00:01:23
Jordan Smith
Yeah, we're ah all the way back again. Just a reminder for those that haven't listened, we we do this big survey every year. We give away a bunch of cool prizes, collect a bunch of cool data about the industry so we can help drive initiatives and projects forward with the stuff the guys actually want, not just the stuff that we think they want.
00:01:41
Jordan Smith
So did the survey ah last fall and we're just recapping everything we learned from that survey. ah Just a quick little pitch for this year. We're doing it again this year. So we're recapping 2024 survey data.
00:01:54
Jordan Smith
2025 survey is live. Lots of good prizes. We'll be giving some away at the Storm Field Day next Thursday as well.
00:02:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, it's coming up quick.
00:02:03
RICK JAMES
ju
00:02:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Coming up quick.
00:02:05
RICK JAMES
You want to talk about that a little bit? the storm day I know Darcy had one, but let's let's let the man, myth, the legend talk about it.
00:02:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:02:10
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's, it's a fun day, you know, for anyone that's gone to like Snow Alliance that Storks puts on great event, very similar to that. It's, it's a, oh it used to be a one day, you know, just in and at eight in the morning out by eight, nine, 10 at night, ah kind of a deal.
00:02:28
Jordan Smith
ah People asked us just like they asked Storks last year, like, Hey, give us a little more networking time, especially since guys are flying in from all over the country for this thing.
00:02:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yup. yup
00:02:36
Jordan Smith
You know, when this event first started, it was mostly Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, North Dakota, South Dakota guys coming in. And and now we're reaching a lot farther. We got almost half of our audience flying in from out of state, out of this tri-state or quad-state area. So pretty cool deal. So we added an extra
Storm Academy Open House
00:02:54
Jordan Smith
night.
00:02:54
Jordan Smith
ah Also a lot of people interested in what's going on at Storm Academy. So we're doing kind of an open house ah Wednesday afternoon. That's the 13th. People can come in and just check out what Storm Academy looks like.
00:03:06
Jordan Smith
Obviously ah summertime, we can't make snow, but can show you the snow guns, show you the pad, show you all the cool equipment that all of our partners have donated for Storm Academy. So you can come check out all this stuff.
00:03:18
Jordan Smith
And then just doing a little shindig at ah ah like a brew a brew pub place in town that Wednesday night. And then the main event is all day Thursday, August 14th.
00:03:30
Jordan Smith
And that is at our facility in Madison Lake. ah It's a lot of networking time, couple good speakers. ah There was a trade show this year. That was something from a survey we got feedback on. People really wanted a little trade show. So we got 21 vendors for our trade show. We're cramming them in.
00:03:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice.
00:03:46
Jordan Smith
For those that have been to our facility, it's it's not a huge facility for 200 plus people, but we're going to make it work.
00:03:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Got to plow under some of that corn.
00:03:54
Jordan Smith
That's right. Yeah. Cornfield's right behind us. And then after the the event, the networking time, the speakers, the prize giveaways, all that kind of stuff, then we head down to my house, which is conveniently 1,500 feet away.
00:04:08
Jordan Smith
And we just do a little after party with good food, open bar.
00:04:08
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:04:12
Jordan Smith
Again, more just good networking time. So I think
00:04:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
Should be good.
00:04:16
Jordan Smith
I think we released some more tickets. So I think we have 23, 24 spots left as of right now. So if if any of you are listening and you haven't signed up yet, um we are charging for the first time. It's not to make money. We're definitely not going to make money on the event. It's purely just to cover costs.
00:04:36
Jordan Smith
It's literally just covering the food for the most part.
00:04:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Absolutely. Which was very good last year.
00:04:39
RICK JAMES
ye
00:04:41
Jordan Smith
Yeah, yeah, it should be really good this year, too. So it's 100 bucks ahead. That gets you three meals. I mean, breakfast is more like a continental type breakfast, but full lunch, a good dinner, um and a good day of networking and learning.
00:04:56
Jordan Smith
So should be really fun. And like I said, few spots left. So if you're listening and haven't signed up, check it out.
00:05:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep, absolutely.
00:05:03
RICK JAMES
It will be a good time.
00:05:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
If anybody's flying into Minneapolis on Tuesday, got room. Got room in the ah and the Expedition slash Tahoe. I don't know, a full-size SUV, whatever that is.
00:05:16
Jordan Smith
There we go.
00:05:16
RICK JAMES
There you go
00:05:17
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I know we, I was, I was looking at the list the other day. I, I, uh, I was shocked how many people are flying this year. So that, that's really cool. I know the podcast here has a lot to do with that reach.
00:05:29
Jordan Smith
That's really cool to see, everyone banding together, kind of these grassroots, more, these more grassroots type events like snow Alliance, uh, like what we're doing here, really gaining popularity.
00:05:39
Jordan Smith
And,
Relatable Content and Industry Trends
00:05:40
Jordan Smith
I think that's really good for the industry. So excited to see everyone next week.
00:05:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
Who the heck? Somebody, Jordan, somebody told me the other day, who the heck was it? They said that you and Jeremy, Steve and Jeremy, you guys on the podcast, you guys are like the happy Gilmore of snow where your audience is like the rough and tumble, the outliers walking into like executives in three-piece suits and stuff because your guys are all bringing double beer drinking helmets and stuff.
00:06:05
RICK JAMES
a
00:06:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
I said, I will take that as a huge compliment.
00:06:09
RICK JAMES
Well, yup, me too.
00:06:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
that
00:06:11
Jordan Smith
That is a huge, huge compliment.
00:06:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome. ah
00:06:14
RICK JAMES
The real people, real people.
00:06:15
Jordan Smith
I love it.
00:06:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it.
00:06:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's great. It's going to be great.
00:06:16
RICK JAMES
Oh,
00:06:17
Jordan Smith
That's why people love it. That's why people love it because it's real. there's There's other snow podcasts and i'm I'm not knocking any of them, but this is popular because it's real, real talk, real life.
00:06:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Bueller. Bueller. Yeah. and not monotone. You got to have a laugh.
00:06:31
Jordan Smith
Great.
00:06:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
i mean that I mean, we're talking snow, and so much of ah around snow right now, it makes you want to cry. like You yeah got to have some laughs about it.
00:06:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:06:39
RICK JAMES
yeah.
00:06:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Get that information out there. But, yeah, that's awesome. We're looking forward to it. i was just telling Jeremy I just booked my meal today for from my flight. I was shocked. a Shake Shack bacon cheeseburger was one of my choices. i'm like, I will take that.
00:06:55
RICK JAMES
I've never had that option yet. Let's
00:06:57
Jordan Smith
hi
00:06:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah oh
00:06:57
Jordan Smith
I had that last time I flew ah to, well, last week when I flew to Pennsylvania and it was, yeah, it was quite good actually.
00:07:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Delta. Yep. It was good. All right. Good. Yeah. i was like, wow, this is great.
00:07:08
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it's a good meal.
00:07:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Shake Shack.
00:07:10
Jordan Smith
It was a good meal.
00:07:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's phenomenal. All right.
00:07:12
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:07:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right. So yeah, if you haven't gotten them yet, guys, storm day, still tickets available. Join us and we'll see you there. Other than that, let's, let's get this going. What do you got for us tonight?
00:07:22
RICK JAMES
get going. on
00:07:24
Jordan Smith
Yeah. so just a quick recap, last week, or not last week, last time, which was probably like two months ago, and I was a little bit pre-SIMA.
00:07:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Easily, yep. Yep, definitely.
00:07:35
Jordan Smith
it was It's been a little while, but last time we we talked about, you know again, from our survey, what contractors think the future of our industry looks like. So zoom out to 2030, 2031, 32. What the next five to seven years look like? What do they think it looks like?
00:07:52
Jordan Smith
So these are more like predictions on I think we're going to see this in our industry. I think the shift, the the trends are going to shift this way. I think we're going to see this happening with the broker models. I think we're going to see this type of equipment.
00:08:03
Jordan Smith
So this was more, less of a wish list and more of a, ah you know, a dream of what they believe the industry might look like. So episode three here, we're going to talk about the innovation wish list, what they actually want.
00:08:17
Jordan Smith
So um not just what they believe will will be part of the industry, but like, what do they want today? What do they want to see in five years? And that's that's really the focus. and And this was kind of a fun section for me to prep for because this all of these answers and everything we're going to talk about came from what I call like the essay portion of our survey.
00:08:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:08:38
Jordan Smith
So One thing we did last year is we broke the survey into two pieces. I know I got a lot of flack for how long the survey was. Sorry, we made it way shorter this year. So if you're thinking about this year, it's 10 minutes or less, I promise, very short.
00:08:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nice.
00:08:50
Jordan Smith
um But we made it you know multiple sections and and the second section was optional. So we we only got about half the number of responses on the essay check section because it it took a long time and a lot of thought.
00:09:01
Jordan Smith
But we still got a lot of responses, think around 150, 170 responses, something like that um But it was fun just reading everyone's essays. And i actually reached out to a few people that filled them out and, you know, had some good dialogue and good commentary because some people took, I mean, there was some like legitimate, like classroom, like college level essay writing here.
00:09:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
You're welcome.
00:09:25
Jordan Smith
Yeah, no, yeah, I, your, yes, your response was long. But,
00:09:30
RICK JAMES
No, no.
00:09:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
You asked. No.
00:09:32
RICK JAMES
Not Steve. He doesn't have an opinion.
00:09:34
The SnowJobs Podcast
but but ah
Autonomous Equipment Debate
00:09:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
no
00:09:36
Jordan Smith
but But it was fun. It was fun to go through. um i mean, I'm scrolling through one right now. Like it's, it's gotta be, if it was on a Word doc, it's gotta be six or seven pages long. So it was really fun to read everything.
00:09:49
Jordan Smith
um My friend ChatGPT helped me kind of parse some of the data because for me to actually, i mean I've read all of them numerous times now because i reviewed these last year when the survey came in and reviewed them again to prep for the podcast. Now I read them again today to make sure i was prepped for this, but use ChatGPT to kind of pull some of the main themes out because it would have taken forever to do it myself. So ah thank goodness for AI.
00:10:11
Jordan Smith
So what I want to do tonight is just go through ah some of the main themes and trends of what we saw in these responses. So everything we're going to talk about is something that came up numerous times and I tried to put them in the order that they came up the most frequently.
00:10:29
Jordan Smith
So you want to dive right into the first one? You guys got any questions on what we're talking about?
00:10:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:10:32
RICK JAMES
Let's go.
00:10:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, let's do it.
00:10:33
RICK JAMES
Let's go.
00:10:34
Jordan Smith
All right. So the first one, um over a hundred of the responses said that they want this. And we kind of talked about it in the last one. This is the one like big crossover item from last time.
00:10:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:10:48
Jordan Smith
And that is that they want a sidewalk robot. So they want a autonomous piece of sidewalk equipment. And most of what I read was not like they want a Roomba for their sidewalk. It was like They wanna put an automation kit on their Ventrac SSV or on their boss Snow Raider or on their ah Toro, whatever those are called, Multiforce, right?
00:11:12
RICK JAMES
Ground sound?
00:11:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:11:13
RICK JAMES
don't know.
00:11:14
Jordan Smith
um Yeah, grandstand platform, but it's a Multiforce, i think what they call it.
00:11:18
RICK JAMES
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:11:18
Jordan Smith
And there was numerous pieces of commentary. So again, over a hundred people said they would like this. um and over a hundred or and And a bunch of those people said they'd be willing to pay 45 $50,000 forty five to fifty thousand dollars for something that could provide a autonomous or at least supervised autonomous version of what they're already running on sidewalks. Again, that being an SSV, maybe it's a Ventrac 4500, maybe it's whatever they're using on their sidewalks right now. So
00:11:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:11:49
Jordan Smith
so what do you guys think about that?
00:11:51
RICK JAMES
and
00:11:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'd be curious if on your your contractor survey this year, i'd be so I'd be curious if you asked that same question, if you'd had that many people say yes, because didn't a lot of people last year say this was the first winter in a long time?
00:12:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
I had no problem getting labor.
00:12:09
Jordan Smith
I heard that a lot. We had that in our own snow business. We actually had plenty of sidewalk labor. um i do think there could be a shift there. Now, i think people probably still want it because it it if it's actually good and reliable, it would show up every time without complaining, right?
00:12:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
True.
00:12:26
Jordan Smith
um
00:12:27
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:12:28
Jordan Smith
But and I know, Steve, you you and I have talked about that quite a bit. um There was definitely more people that either needed to get back to work or needed some extra cash.
00:12:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:12:41
Jordan Smith
And I think that drove maybe a higher supply pool for labor. So I don't think it it necessarily probably takes away this desire, but I think you're right, Steve, that's probably a good observation that labor availability is probably a lot of what drove this commentary when we when we had the survey out.
00:12:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
I just think like like anything else right now, right, Jeremy? Like the the price tag will be so ridiculous. I mean, you're already paying 20. If you want an SSV with a straight blade, you're paying 20, 24, 25 grand right there.
00:13:09
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:13:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Now, what would that cost to be fully automated that you don't have to worry about it? It's not going to run over somebody's kid or cat on the sidewalk or like like I think 50 grand is way low of a price tag for something like that. That's just me. I mean, everybody's charging for innovation, right?
00:13:31
Jordan Smith
d do Do you guys remember, i know we've talked about it a few times and I think we talked about it in the last episode, but do you guys remember what left hand robotics was charging for their units before they sold the Toro?
00:13:31
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Go ahead.
00:13:45
RICK JAMES
i never I never got a price on them.
00:13:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:13:47
RICK JAMES
I was just trying to get on the floor.
00:13:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
No. I don't know that they got to that stage yet. did they Did they ever get to that stage where they were actually selling them mainstream?
00:13:56
Jordan Smith
I just found an article. This is from 2019.
00:14:00
Jordan Smith
So this article, yeah, yeah so pre-inflation, pre-COVID.
00:14:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Pre-COVID.
00:14:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:14:06
Jordan Smith
This article says that the RT1000, which is the power unit that could run a snowblower autonomously, was $55,000 with $4850 annual subscription fee in 2019. 70, 75, yeah.
00:14:18
Jordan Smith
with a forty eight hundred and fifty dollars annual subscription fee
00:14:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
In 2019.
00:14:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
So that would be, what, $75 today?
00:14:22
RICK JAMES
Oh,
00:14:23
Jordan Smith
and twenty nineteen
00:14:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
so that would be what seventy five today with With an bill for the year?
00:14:26
Jordan Smith
seventy seventy five yeah
00:14:28
RICK JAMES
probably. Yeah. yeah
00:14:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
You said Was that right? subscription
00:14:34
Jordan Smith
or Sorry, I said 4850, but I just scrolled down.
00:14:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
okay
00:14:37
Jordan Smith
It's actually 4250.
00:14:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
forty two fifty so in today's dollars that's what seven grand
00:14:38
Jordan Smith
but yeah
00:14:39
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:14:42
Jordan Smith
Probably.
00:14:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah year
00:14:43
RICK JAMES
Probably, probably with all the updates.
00:14:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's pretty pricey, but I mean, I don't know what that can do. I'm not up on the specs of that. And is it even still in in existence or did Toro buy it to kill it?
00:14:54
Jordan Smith
I don't exactly know what Toro's intent was. I know they bought it. um I'm assuming to leverage some of the proprietary tech that this company had built, um but I don't know that they ended up using it for anything.
00:15:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
I haven't seen a word on it.
00:15:08
Jordan Smith
Definitely not for snow.
00:15:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, I haven't seen a word on it since.
00:15:11
RICK JAMES
fire Yeah, maybe they're using their lawn sign, maybe.
00:15:12
Jordan Smith
No.
00:15:15
RICK JAMES
I don't know, or something. Yeah,
00:15:17
Jordan Smith
I thought that's what I heard is that they're never gonna try to use it on the green side. i don't I don't know where that went and I don't think it's probably public information anyway, but I know we definitely never saw a ah we never saw the the left hand
00:15:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:15:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:15:31
Jordan Smith
ah robotic snow units hit the market in scale. They hit them in like beta. There was like beta testers, right?
00:15:36
RICK JAMES
yeah yep, yep.
00:15:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:15:38
RICK JAMES
ye
00:15:38
Jordan Smith
ah remember at Equip Expo, must've been 2019-ish, like they were signing up people left and right for their tester program.
00:15:46
RICK JAMES
Right. Mm-hmm.
00:15:48
Jordan Smith
But I just don't think it ever, I don't think it ever got good enough for it to actually hit mass adoption. Clearly it didn't, otherwise they probably would have done that.
00:15:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, I mean, the same problems still exist, like, with you guys in the Tellio, the skid steer.
00:15:58
RICK JAMES
right
00:16:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, weren't you saying there's a sensor problem with snow and the stuff like that, and when the the moisture builds up on the sensors?
00:16:02
Jordan Smith
Same.
00:16:10
Jordan Smith
lot of challenges, you know, the sensors and cameras get fooled by snowflakes. You know, picture a snowflake going right in front a camera lens.
00:16:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:16:18
Jordan Smith
It looks like the size of a bus. So there's some some challenges there.
00:16:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:16:23
Jordan Smith
But honestly, the biggest challenge with autonomy and snow is that they're built to drive a certain path. And when they slide off of that path, all the sensors go off and say, this is unsafe.
00:16:35
Jordan Smith
I'm not on track anymore. I need to shut down. I need i need someone to tell me it's okay. Well, you're always sliding off path when you're pushing snow, right?
00:16:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%. Mm-hmm.
00:16:43
Jordan Smith
And I think that's why left hand was looking at a blower because with a blower, you're going slower. and you're less likely to be you know getting pushed around by your snow load because you're not really pushing the snow, you're feeding it through an auger and a blower.
00:16:58
Jordan Smith
So I'm assuming that was their concept behind having it be a blower as opposed to a blade.
00:17:03
RICK JAMES
They had that on a broom.
00:17:04
Jordan Smith
But yeah, broom could do the same, right?
00:17:07
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:17:08
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:17:08
RICK JAMES
Yeah. They had a broom on it.
00:17:10
Jordan Smith
But yes, there's a lot of challenges in snow and I think that's why we're seeing a lot more adoption in robotics in green than snow, just a lot more predictable.
00:17:19
RICK JAMES
I just, I think it's going to like you said, pretty hard to do. Cause even like, like John Deere, huge egg, you know, they're having issues. They, they had a tractor running around the country this year.
00:17:30
RICK JAMES
or last couple of years, you know, just an autonomous tractor pulling up to the power field cultivator and, and just wind and dirt would make the thing stop all the time because it would, with the dust would make it think there was something there.
00:17:42
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Right.
00:17:44
RICK JAMES
I remember watching the guy, he's just sitting in the seat, but he'd been like stopping constantly and he backs up a little bit and then starts again. And you know, it was, it was, uh, I mean, yeah, tech is there, but it's not there.
00:17:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
And it doesn't matter what you do.
00:17:56
Jordan Smith
right
00:17:56
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:17:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
If you base it off infrared, if you base it off thermal, there's always factors that are going to be able to fool those sensors. So I think it's i think it's tough. like You're talking about snow. i think that's really tough to do. But if somebody could do it, I mean, great. But I don't remember, even with the that whatever unit it was called, I don't even remember what the runtime was on them.
00:18:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do you remember offhand what the runtime was?
00:18:22
RICK JAMES
the left The left hand you're talking?
00:18:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, yeah, that one.
00:18:25
Jordan Smith
They're gas, so they're, they're, yeah, they're gas.
00:18:26
RICK JAMES
They're gas.
00:18:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
They were gas.
00:18:26
RICK JAMES
yeah there It was a gas engine. Yeah.
00:18:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay.
00:18:29
Jordan Smith
Yup.
00:18:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's a little better then.
00:18:31
Jordan Smith
Yup.
00:18:31
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:18:31
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah. I, I think the other,
00:18:34
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:18:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
And you got map it, right? Like you got to map that route.
00:18:37
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:18:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
So what happens if there's a route change?
00:18:38
Jordan Smith
yes.
00:18:38
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:18:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like what happens if somebody has a portion of sidewalk closed off due to an icing condition or something like that? And they got barriers up. Now that thing runs in the, you know, can't go around. It doesn't know to go around.
00:18:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's there's a lot of stuff, like we said.
00:18:53
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I think that's and think that's why they call it supervised autonomy. and And that's kind of like, that's what our teleo unit is too. is it's It's not full autonomy, it's supervised autonomy. And supervised means like someone has to be available to help it when it gets stuck.
00:19:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:19:08
Jordan Smith
um I think there's some parallels.
00:19:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
So if I need a guy there anyway, why wouldn't I just put them on an SSV if I need to keep a guy there with the unit?
00:19:14
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:19:16
Jordan Smith
Right, right.
00:19:17
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:19:17
Jordan Smith
um And I think this is this is part of the challenge too. and I know it's part of the challenge that we've run into with the economics of the teleo unit is like the subscription fee to keep the thing connected to the cloud and all the autonomy.
00:19:32
Jordan Smith
It's enough dollars where it's like you can put a butt in the seat.
00:19:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:19:36
Jordan Smith
So to your point earlier, Steve, if if labor shortage is not a concern, then you can put butts in seats or in on standing on whatever units.
00:19:47
Jordan Smith
And like now the subscription fee doesn't actually have a great ah ROI compared to what it does if you are short on labor.
00:19:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:19:54
Jordan Smith
Now, if you physically cannot get labor and it's holding you back from getting millions of dollars more of accounts, yeah, I can see it. But I don't know if that's as much of an issue now as it was two years ago.
00:20:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, a lot of people said that they last year was the first year in a long time they did not have a labor problem.
00:20:06
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:20:11
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I'm sure they still exist.
00:20:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
so Jeremy still did, though. Jeremy still did.
00:20:14
RICK JAMES
Yeah. i
00:20:16
Jordan Smith
We're in Fargo.
00:20:18
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:20:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, there's a limited number of people there.
00:20:19
RICK JAMES
That's right.
00:20:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, man.
00:20:20
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:20:21
RICK JAMES
Yeah. For sure. You're not wrong.
00:20:23
Jordan Smith
Drawn from a small pool, drawn from a small pool.
00:20:26
RICK JAMES
Well, calm down here. You're from Mankato. It's not like you guys are.
00:20:31
Jordan Smith
We're not as big as Glacier, though.
00:20:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh man
00:20:33
Jordan Smith
we don't have We don't need as many people.
00:20:34
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:20:36
Jordan Smith
So that was that was kind of interesting, though, that, you know, again, that that's the big area of crossover in the in the last episode of this one is there a lot of talk about autonomy and robotics in the last episode, and and that was the highest mentioned item ever.
00:20:51
Jordan Smith
in the essay portion about what people want right now. And and there was a lot of demand in summer and fall of 2024 for autonomous sidewalk. So we did not ask the question again.
00:21:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do you have that question in the 25 one? You didn't ask it again?
00:21:02
Jordan Smith
We did not ask it again. Now we didn't.
00:21:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay.
00:21:05
Jordan Smith
would have been interesting.
00:21:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'd be interested to see.
00:21:06
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Well, maybe listeners can send some feedback into you guys. We get lots of messages after these episodes.
00:21:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:21:10
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:21:11
Jordan Smith
So let us know.
00:21:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Definitely.
00:21:12
RICK JAMES
Yeah. I still would on it.
00:21:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
You still what?
00:21:17
RICK JAMES
I still would take it.
00:21:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, yeah, I mean, but look at, like, what what do you have to lose? Your shit comes back with man operators, that with shit hanging off it.
00:21:25
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:21:25
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, they broke the fenders off. Tires are wider than the fenders.
00:21:29
RICK JAMES
but
00:21:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
How do they get to the fenders?
00:21:32
RICK JAMES
It's magic. I don't know. They didn't hit anything. They didn't hit anything.
00:21:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
but No, no, I didn't hit anything.
00:21:36
RICK JAMES
So, no, they never hit anything.
00:21:36
Jordan Smith
I never do.
00:21:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
i don't know how the cab got ripped off.
00:21:39
RICK JAMES
Yeah, it just happened. There it is.
00:21:41
Jordan Smith
Yeah. I don't know how that tipped over on its side.
00:21:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nah, it just happened.
00:21:45
RICK JAMES
Nope. Nope.
00:21:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
It was that Fargo wind.
00:21:49
RICK JAMES
Yep. I do have a sidewalk. We're seeing the picture of one tipped over. Not one of ours. Somebody else's. was going to make a video of it the other day, but I didn't.
00:21:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
The wind. All
00:21:58
RICK JAMES
I think a car ran it off the road, so.
00:22:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
right, that happens.
00:22:05
Jordan Smith
So the next item is far less ah tech or exciting.
Simplifying Equipment Interfaces
00:22:10
Jordan Smith
It's a pretty simple one that probably won't lead to a super long discussion, but it was called out the second most. so um And it was just generally a plea from contractors for...
00:22:21
Jordan Smith
more things to be universal plug and play. So like one of the one of the actual quotes that was repeated in different fashions was like, why is why is hooking up a plow, I think this means to a truck maybe or a loader if it's ah like a wing plow, why is it still a 20 minute ordeal?
00:22:41
Jordan Smith
Like why is it why is it not simpler to hook stuff up? And obviously there's, you know you can use Stoochie connectors, there's different things you can do on loaders. um I don't run truck plows, so maybe you guys can speak more to this, but are truck plows still that bad to hook up?
00:22:53
Jordan Smith
I know our Hennikers used to suck when we had Hennikers, but are they that bad?
00:22:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah ah Westerns or not, I just had this discussion with Seth of why two companies under the same umbrella are allowed to have two two ridiculously different mounting systems where the Western, I have seven-year-olds putting my plows on my trucks.
00:23:06
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:23:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
The Fishers, I can't get it right in 15, 20 minutes. Like, I can't line up those two pinholes and drop the pin. So I said, why does that happen? And he's like, well, you know, each brand had its thing before they became under the same umbrella.
00:23:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, and there could be something to that. But I just I don't understand that. The ultra mount for the Western is super simple, super simple. You can have that plow on that truck in 30 seconds.
00:23:39
Jordan Smith
and and And it's not, it's not like challenging from an alignment standpoint.
00:23:39
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:23:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Easily.
00:23:40
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:23:43
Jordan Smith
Like I remember what the Hennikers, if you didn't, if you didn't have two people to line the forks up to go into the fork tubes, like it was impossible.
00:23:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
No.
00:23:48
Jordan Smith
You had to have two people to hook the plows up.
00:23:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
The Western receivers have like a taper. So if you just know, if you look at the front of your truck and look at your receiver and line it up with something on the hood of your truck that you know where that receiver is and you're within five inches on either side, you will be able to make contact and slide it in.
00:24:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
So it's pretty, pretty easy.
00:24:08
Jordan Smith
Sure.
00:24:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
They kind it kind of guides you in as long as you're in that flare, because you can hit that, the ends flare out on the flanges. So you can, you can hit that with the plow and the plow will still get get guided right into the, where it needs to be.
00:24:23
Jordan Smith
the, the other thing are bosses simple too.
00:24:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
So.
00:24:24
RICK JAMES
Right. Boss is pretty simple.
00:24:27
Jordan Smith
Yeah. And I've done the boss ones and i agree they are, they are simple. Um, I haven't done them in our operations. We don't run truck plows, but for like trade shows and stuff, I've helped to come up and they, they do seem really simple.
00:24:39
Jordan Smith
I know the other ordeal with the, uh, the Hennikers.
00:24:39
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:24:42
Jordan Smith
And again, I know no one runs Henniker, so, but they're from Mankato, so I'll give them a shout out.
00:24:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:24:46
Jordan Smith
Um, But the other thing with the Hinnickers is the fricking light towers that always tip down and the light towers were connected to the fork tubes.
00:24:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh.
00:24:54
Jordan Smith
So when the light tower would tip down, the fork tubes would tip up and now you can't get them in at all. And you're supposed to be able to step the cylinder down to hold the light tower up, but it would never stay. So that was always, yep it always was a two person job when we used at used to have seven or eight Hinnicker truck plows in our fleet many years ago. And I remember we'd always have to send two people. Otherwise it would take someone like six hours have to plows up.
00:25:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
There's still guys around here that run Henniker.
00:25:19
Jordan Smith
Are there?
00:25:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Yeah, there's a couple of them that run Henniker. They love him.
00:25:24
Jordan Smith
All right. Well, I wouldn't say we had problems with them beyond that. They were pretty pretty decent plows beyond that, but hook hooking up was never was never fun.
00:25:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:25:33
Jordan Smith
I think the other part of this comment was ah more from the storm domain with hydraulic wing plows. Like, why can't it be simpler?
00:25:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:25:43
Jordan Smith
Like, why can't there be universal hydraulics?
00:25:43
RICK JAMES
pressure in line.
00:25:46
Jordan Smith
Why can't we have couplers that work under pressure? Should not have to crack lines or put on these expensive Stoochie connectors.
00:25:52
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:25:53
Jordan Smith
um and And why do the OEM loaders not have pinouts that actually work well with the plows?
00:25:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
because then you won't have to buy accessories from the OEM accessories.
00:26:01
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:26:02
RICK JAMES
so right
00:26:02
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:26:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
Am I wrong?
00:26:05
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:26:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, everything's about money.
00:26:08
Jordan Smith
right
00:26:08
RICK JAMES
I've said this for years now, ever since we got to Fusion Couplers, the cat has them. I think that's the best coupler for, I mean, I wish everybody would go to that because it's, you know, JRBs and stuff are simple, but the holes wear out after time.
00:26:22
RICK JAMES
The fusions, they're always wedging. They're always pinching. like They're like a skidster, ah you know, plate where they got pins and they're always wedging in there and they're not, it's not going to be loose like a, you know how JRBs, holes will wear out and everything, pins will wear out.
00:26:28
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:26:34
Jordan Smith
Yep. Yep.
00:26:37
RICK JAMES
ah just I'm a big fan of the fusions, and I've told everybody that. I don't really care what manufacturer. just I just think it would be way better to have one freaking set of hooks for everything. so
00:26:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Those are cat proprietary diffusions.
00:26:49
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:26:50
RICK JAMES
They were. Yeah, i don't know if that – I heard thought I heard something about that. That might be up. I'm not sure. I heard something in Canada i was making them now.
00:26:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Hmm.
00:26:56
Jordan Smith
OK.
00:26:58
RICK JAMES
I thought I heard AMI was maybe building them, but could be wrong. That's what my dealer told me.
00:27:01
Jordan Smith
Sure.
00:27:03
RICK JAMES
So I could be wrong about it.
00:27:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay.
00:27:04
Jordan Smith
Yeah, the the fusions are super nice.
00:27:06
Jordan Smith
the only I'd say the only challenge I've seen with fusions is they're super tall. So like a JRB 416 is like a 16 inch tall profile or maybe 18.
00:27:12
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:27:18
Jordan Smith
The fusions have got to be 30 inches tall. So like if you have a small attachment, now you're not putting a fusion on a small loader, but you have a small attachment, they can get a little obnoxious with the connection plates.
00:27:20
RICK JAMES
Oh yeah.
00:27:28
Jordan Smith
um But yes, i agree. Fusions are super nice. They don't wear out. They always line up. I'm a big fan of fusions as well.
00:27:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, that's big load of stuff.
00:27:36
RICK JAMES
They're heavy.
00:27:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's not my wheelhouse.
00:27:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:27:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
but I'll leave that to you guys.
00:27:38
RICK JAMES
They're heavy. They're definitely heavy.
00:27:40
Jordan Smith
Yes, they're extremely heavy.
00:27:41
RICK JAMES
or
00:27:42
Jordan Smith
ah but But I think you're right, Steve.
00:27:43
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:27:44
Jordan Smith
like I think it would be ideal. and And I think part of the reading a few of the responses, people were questioning, like, how come the big loaders aren't universal like skid loaders? Like every, pretty much every skid loader has a 14 pin connector, except for Bobcat, they've got their own thing.
00:27:59
Jordan Smith
But like,
00:27:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:28:00
Jordan Smith
Everyone else has a 14 pin connector. Everyone else has a skid steer quick attach plate. Everyone else has pilot controls. Like it has the buttons on it to run the 14 pin. Like when we sell hydraulic wing plows for skid steers, unless it's a Bobcat, it's really simple.
00:28:12
Jordan Smith
You literally hook the hydraulic, you hook the hydraulic wing plow up, you plug in your hydraulics, you hook up your factory wiring and you're running it off your factory joystick.
00:28:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:28:21
Jordan Smith
I think people are wondering like, why don't we have that on big loaders?
00:28:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
I wonder in other industries, is there a need for the same type of joystick that we need to run the hydraulic wing plows?
00:28:25
RICK JAMES
right
00:28:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like any other of the attachments? i guess i guess they would, right? It's just different hydraulic function.
00:28:35
RICK JAMES
well yeah you know like i
00:28:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Just like a four-way controller.
00:28:39
Jordan Smith
Yeah, would i want to yeah i mean I would assume anything that has multiple hydraulic functions has to have some kind of electronic switching. like So like a broom, like an angling broom.
00:28:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nope.
00:28:49
Jordan Smith
um I guess, yeah, there's not a lot of attachments you'd run on ah you're not going to run a Harley rake or something on a on a big loader.
00:28:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
nope
00:28:57
Jordan Smith
So that's probably part of it is there just isn't as much demand because loaders are built, big loaders are built for dirt and quarry and they're not running attachments that need multifunction hydraulics.
00:29:07
RICK JAMES
All right.
00:29:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know what's going to change it, though? like People like the Straits and Arctic, with being a large purchaser, they can just tell them, hey, listen, this is the joystick we want as part of the snow package or the Arctic spec machines.
00:29:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
And they can probably get, they have enough buying power that they can get stuff like that done for snow guys.
00:29:20
RICK JAMES
OK.
00:29:25
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah, no, I think that's right. I think it it does come down to like kind of a buying coalition enough, enough people asking for it. And it's not hard for the manufacturers to do.
00:29:36
Jordan Smith
They clearly have.
00:29:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, no, they could do anything they want. They already have the tech. They know how to do it.
00:29:41
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:29:41
The SnowJobs Podcast
They just, you know, why why give it to you stock if I can charge you for it later when you figure out you need it?
00:29:41
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:29:47
Jordan Smith
Right. Nope. 100%. So you're ready to go to item number three.
00:29:52
RICK JAMES
You bet?
00:29:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Am I too cynical? Am I too cynical about this? Like, everything comes everything comes down to dollars and cents, though.
00:29:55
Jordan Smith
yorke you're always You're always cynical, Steve.
00:29:58
RICK JAMES
No.
00:30:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
Do we really believe that it's any ah anything else other than dollars and cents and making money?
00:30:02
Jordan Smith
I thought...
00:30:07
Jordan Smith
I mean, I think that's 100% accurate.
00:30:09
The SnowJobs Podcast
Okay. I just wanted to make sure. I'm like, maybe I'm just being a dick.
00:30:12
Jordan Smith
No. No, I think you're probably right.
00:30:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
00:30:15
Jordan Smith
And I do think some of it's supply and demand too, though.
00:30:15
RICK JAMES
so
00:30:17
Jordan Smith
I do think...
00:30:18
RICK JAMES
i know
00:30:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
True.
00:30:19
Jordan Smith
Jeremy, I think you you definitely said said it correctly. There's probably just not as many... people that are buying big loaders that need multifunction hydraulic electronic controls. So they're not putting them on supply and demand to some extent, whereas skid steers, like anyone who has a skid steer pretty much wants the ability to run, ah you know, jackhammer and auger.
00:30:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Everything.
00:30:38
RICK JAMES
but even
00:30:38
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:30:39
RICK JAMES
But even like the cats, cats the 90s, we got some 907, 908s that had the, like what was it, eight or nine pin?
00:30:47
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:30:47
RICK JAMES
the bigger pins for a while. They had those and he had to buy the adapter to get to the 14 pin, which I got a shit ton of adapters, but yeah, it was adapter.
00:30:51
Jordan Smith
yeah
00:30:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
What, you you had to buy an additional adapter? Oh, there you go.
00:30:59
RICK JAMES
Adapter, what about maybe about eight inches long that costs what about a hundred some dollars I'm sure it was or yeah.
00:31:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
um
00:31:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
There you go. Nickel and diamond.
00:31:08
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:31:09
Jordan Smith
ah So number three is one that I can speak
Affordable Brine Systems and OEM Feedback
00:31:13
Jordan Smith
to quite a bit. And it was fun to it was fun to read everyone's feedback. So item number three was people want affordable brine systems and real legitimate cost-effective salt alternatives.
00:31:29
Jordan Smith
So obviously coming from the liquid world, having a big part in in in the contractor side of the liquid world for the last decade plus, this was fun feedback to read.
00:31:40
Jordan Smith
um Also, just I think very interesting for any OEMs that listen. I know you guys have OEMs that listen to this stuff. um And I know I've talked to my ah my my boss friends about this as well, but...
00:31:52
Jordan Smith
As liquids move from being a sort of early adopter innovator phase ah in the industry to moving towards more of a maturity phase, there's going to be demand for like mid-market, affordably priced options.
00:32:12
Jordan Smith
So I'm just going to read two of the quotes quick to kind of kick this off. There's a lot of them, but the first quote was, i am 100% sold on liquids, but it's no one's making it affordable.
00:32:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
hu
00:32:23
Jordan Smith
And the other quote was, I'm not gonna spend $30,000 on something I don't even fully understand yet. So like some of this is like, first of all, no one's making it affordable, which,
00:32:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
Fair.
00:32:31
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:32:33
Jordan Smith
To be honest, it pains me to say it because I am in this business, but like it's true. It's extremely expensive to get into.
00:32:40
RICK JAMES
hu
00:32:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep, that's fair.
00:32:41
Jordan Smith
It's also complex to learn and like it's too expensive to take a flyer on if you're not confident in your ability to scale it up in your business, right?
00:32:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes, sir.
00:32:49
RICK JAMES
right
00:32:50
Jordan Smith
Now, if you could buy ah a brine maker and a sprayer for 15,000 bucks for all of it out the door, like maybe someone would take a flyer on that and give it a try. But when it's 40, 50, 60,
00:33:02
Jordan Smith
That's a whole different ballgame, you know?
00:33:02
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:33:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:33:05
Jordan Smith
um So i so i do think I do think that there is a growing need because I do think based on the feedback, like 94% of these people said they want to get into liquids if they're not already in it.
00:33:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:33:19
Jordan Smith
But a majority of them also said, but it's not affordable. There's no affordable options. It's too complicated. Yeah. You know, like obviously with the VSI systems, they have all the cool tracking and all the fun stuff, which is cool.
00:33:32
Jordan Smith
But there's people saying like, hey, that's I'm glad you have it, but like give me an option that just sprays brine. Like, let me flip a switch and spray brine.
00:33:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:33:39
Jordan Smith
Probably similar to like what you have with your dust controls, Jeremy.
00:33:39
RICK JAMES
but
00:33:41
Jordan Smith
It's probably a lot simpler, or maybe it's not actually. Maybe a pretty fancy stuff.
00:33:44
RICK JAMES
it's It's actually, it's no, it's just, a well, it's a Veritech system, High Run.
00:33:49
Jordan Smith
Oh, OK, sure.
00:33:50
RICK JAMES
same as Same as our, they it's ah exact same as our de-icing, so, so yeah.
00:33:54
Jordan Smith
Okay, so it's it's like a GPS rate control deal just like the icing?
00:33:57
RICK JAMES
Yep, yep, yeah.
00:33:57
Jordan Smith
ah that's cool, okay. So like some of the feedback was like, you know, geofencing is cool. Automatic rate control is cool. Tracking is cool, but I don't wanna pay for it Give me the simple on-off version that is simple.
00:34:13
Jordan Smith
i can I can give it to any of my guys, just like I give them a V-Box.
00:34:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:34:17
Jordan Smith
They can turn the controller on. And yeah, if you wanna do rate control in the background, great. Give me the rate control, but like, don't make me program it in. Like just say pre-treat or post-treat, hit a button and go, right?
00:34:29
Jordan Smith
And I do think we're entering a phase where that is something that clearly people want. They're saying they want it. I'm hearing it at trade shows. This last Simon show is probably one of the most common conversations I had is like, I really like your high end thing.
00:34:42
Jordan Smith
It's really cool. But like, what's your next step down? And it's, well, there isn't, there isn't one right now, you know?
00:34:46
RICK JAMES
so
00:34:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep. Yep.
00:34:49
Jordan Smith
ah But there,
00:34:49
RICK JAMES
Because it was all simple is better, right? Simpler is better than what everybody was talking about. So.
00:34:52
Jordan Smith
Right, right. It's kind of that, yeah, from the last episode we talked about, is it you know tech explosion or tech fatigue? And I think it's like, yeah, there's some cool tech stuff, but also I want the simple stuff that just works too.
00:35:03
Jordan Smith
and And by the way, I need it to be affordable.
00:35:04
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:35:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeahp yep
00:35:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
And it's not right now for like we always talk about 80-20.
00:35:09
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:35:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like there's 20. Like I think your survey actually said it. What was it the number? Like 70% of the companies are on the lower side of of men and equipment.
00:35:21
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:35:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
So like I don't think that it's affordable for like my size. I can't justify for the acreage that we maintain. I can't justify the capex. Do I want to get into liquids? In the worst way, it would simplify so many things for us.
00:35:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
But i I just can't justify you know that that cap expense yet.
00:35:41
Jordan Smith
So, I mean, so go ahead, Jeremy.
00:35:41
RICK JAMES
Well, even, even go ahead.
00:35:43
Jordan Smith
No, go ahead.
00:35:44
RICK JAMES
I was just gonna say, even though like Steve, you're talking about how expensive it is just for the equipment, but even we've heard on the East coast, how expensive it is to get like a, like a additive out there.
00:35:55
RICK JAMES
I mean, nobody has it out there.
00:35:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, 100%. yes hundred percent
00:35:57
RICK JAMES
It's just, it's just, I mean, if you can get the cap to get all the equipment, you still gotta get that. i mean, you guys probably don't have run a lot of additive, but you still, it's nice to have that option.
00:36:08
RICK JAMES
And just what I've heard from everybody out there, it's just ridiculous. to get it out there.
00:36:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, it is. All the corn-based stuff is expensive to get out here. But i think I think if you have it take off in the Northeast, I think you'll have more and more suppliers that have to stock more of they're bringing it out in bigger quantities. The price would have to go down.
00:36:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah At least be a little more affordable when guys are splitting tanker trucks or taking whole tanker trucks, stuff like that.
00:36:28
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:36:32
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:36:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think that helps, but there's just not enough guys running it to to make it affordable right now.
00:36:39
Jordan Smith
Well, and and and you know i'll i mean I'll die on a hill saying there there's no matter what price you pay, almost no matter what price you pay for the equipment, there's there's an ah ROI that's there. But that that doesn't change the fact that the barrier to entry is too high.
00:36:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
sure
00:36:51
Jordan Smith
like ah ROI, return on investment only matters if you can actually... afford to make the initial investment. And right now that's not really, unless you're buying used stuff on auctions, which I've actually talked to a lot of people that have had good success with that the last couple of years, um fine and cheap liquid stuff on auctions.
00:37:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
00:37:00
RICK JAMES
Okay.
00:37:11
Jordan Smith
Like it's just really not affordable to to start off. Again, i think if you make the investment, if you're fortunate to be able to pay for it in cash or finance it at a reasonable rate, I know you're going to get a return on liquids because the return's great.
00:37:24
Jordan Smith
But that barrier is just really high right now. And I think if we want to break that down, the OEMs need to look at like like a V-box priced liquid option that works and has um very simple functionality. And and like i said, I think it probably needs to have a pre-treat switch and a post-treat switch. And like, that's what it has.
00:37:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, I think you're 100% accurate.
00:37:46
Jordan Smith
Simple, sub $10,000 unit.
00:37:46
RICK JAMES
Okay.
00:37:48
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think if, yeah, if you can if you go walk into a dealer and say, okay, I got a new pickup this year. I got to outfit it. And I got a V-Box and I got a ah liquid system.
00:38:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
And they're both relatively in the same price range. Then it's a decision that you can make. But... Like right now paying what i think a two and a half yard tornado is going to run me like eight grand, 8,500, somewhere in that range.
00:38:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
I can't justify what 15 for 15 for a three Oh five legacy or whatever.
00:38:20
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:38:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's like I could buy two tornadoes for the price that and, I'm in the Northeast with high moisture. You know, my my tolerance for bullshit and and frustration is already way up.
00:38:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, it's way low.
00:38:32
RICK JAMES
No,
00:38:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
You know, so I might spend the money and the shit I fuck something up or or my guys screw something up.
00:38:33
RICK JAMES
no
00:38:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
We don't read the storm right and it doesn't work. I'm shelving that. You know, that's like like you said earlier. It's got to be in the range where guys can take a flyer and take a chance.
00:38:49
Jordan Smith
Well, and I think a big part of it, you know to be honest, like a big part of the ah ROI on liquids for a while is that um because the systems all had automatic rate control, you're putting on the right amount of product.
00:39:02
Jordan Smith
Well, now you see Boss coming out with the VBX Plus at a sub $10,000 price point that has rate control for salt.
00:39:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:39:10
Jordan Smith
you You guys had a whole episode about... Douglas's system that retrofits to all of their salters that has material tracking.
00:39:17
RICK JAMES
All
00:39:18
Jordan Smith
So now you can regulate your salt.
00:39:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:39:20
RICK JAMES
right.
00:39:20
Jordan Smith
And so now the whole competitive advantage of liquids, if you always put down the right amount, I'm not saying it's out the window because it's still there, but now salters have comparable technology and guess what?
00:39:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
and
00:39:30
Jordan Smith
It's still cheaper.
00:39:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep.
00:39:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, that's a great point. That's an outstanding point. And people are going crazy. Like, that shows the need for that.
00:39:32
Jordan Smith
So that just, and trust me.
00:39:39
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:39:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
i
00:39:39
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:39:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah we We had tons of people ask questions about it. That's why we did that episode with Douglas. But post-episode, the amount guys that are going crazy over that, like, that are calling Gene already and placing pre-orders and stuff, it's like, holy crap. Like, guys were hungry for this for a long time.
00:39:56
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:39:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:39:57
RICK JAMES
right.
00:39:58
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:39:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
But I think your point is 100%.
00:39:58
Jordan Smith
So,
00:40:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
I love that point.
00:40:02
Jordan Smith
and, and again, you know, being the liquid guy, like I don't want people to take it the wrong way. I still believe in it. Um, 200%, but like, I, you know, I, I push, like I said, I push the people I work with the boss.
00:40:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
Sure.
00:40:16
Jordan Smith
I'll, I'll push the other OEMs. Like we have to make it affordable if we want it to scale, if we don't make it affordable,
00:40:21
RICK JAMES
but
00:40:23
Jordan Smith
and Salters are, and now they have rate control. Guess what? We're not gonna scale liquid. It's just not gonna happen.
00:40:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, no, ah you're 100% right.
00:40:29
Jordan Smith
We gotta get there.
00:40:31
The SnowJobs Podcast
100% right. and And the salt, the rate control on the ps salters is the same thing where they've made it affordable.
00:40:32
RICK JAMES
every
00:40:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
So now that's pushing something that's pushing the more complicated shit to the side because it's it's affordable as hell for that price point to make.
00:40:38
RICK JAMES
And simple.
00:40:42
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:40:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
Now I can control. I can know exactly what I'm putting out down to like, what did he say? Within 20 pounds. Accurate.
00:40:53
RICK JAMES
Yeah, it was pretty tight.
00:40:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think you said within 10 or 20 pounds accurate if it's calibrated right.
00:40:54
RICK JAMES
It was pretty tight. Yeah. Yeah.
00:40:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
that' that's ah That's pushing the more technology-based, you know the more expensive side. you don't necessarily Guys are saying, we don't need that. you know We can now do it for $600. Sorry. Okay.
00:41:10
Jordan Smith
Well, and in that segues literally perfectly into number four, which you already said. um
00:41:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
sorry
00:41:16
Jordan Smith
and no, just no, it's perfect. No, not sorry.
00:41:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah okay
00:41:19
Jordan Smith
It's perfect it's perfect because you you just fed into exactly what the people are saying. You're obviously in tune with what the people are saying because that's what you do. But They're saying build for the 80%, not for the 20% build for a majority. So you had mentioned earlier, like 70% of the people replying are these smaller companies and they're the ones that need this scalable, affordable technology and they don't want it to be overly complex and they don't want it to have 15 features they don't use.
00:41:46
Jordan Smith
They just want it to be accurate. They want it to work. They want it to be affordable. So, I mean, literally the, the, the quote was, I don't care about geo-fencing or all these other fancy features. I just want it to spray and I want it to work every time.
00:41:59
Jordan Smith
Like they just want it to be simple and they want it to work. Uh, it says, uh, a lot of them don't want or need the full telematic suites. They just want it to have one button they can turn on and it applies product.
00:42:12
Jordan Smith
Um, yeah.
00:42:12
RICK JAMES
right
00:42:13
Jordan Smith
So again, it's not to knock the stuff that's out there. Like there is a demand for the high tech stuff. Like i've I have sold a ton of these smart connected sprayers.
00:42:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
hundred percent
00:42:20
Jordan Smith
Camiana sold a ton of their stuff. The Icing Depot sold a ton their stuff. Hilltip sold a ton of their stuff. There's obviously people that want it. But again, the majority is saying the 80% is saying, give us this simple, affordable, accurate technology.
00:42:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, there are people that need that higher tech too. There are sites that require it for you to get that contract. You have to be able to do that kind of stuff.
00:42:43
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:42:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
And guess what? They're also paying, you know, they're paying enough money on those contracts for you to afford that stuff. But, you know, for we're talking about the 20 versus 80%. You know, I'll just say it like the the top 20% is what um I think a lot of manufacturers are building for because one order from them, you could take 200 Steve's.
00:43:05
The SnowJobs Podcast
And our order, if we all ordered something, that's not going to it's not going to make up for the order that's coming from like an ECF, for example. there that's who they're if If that's what they want and that's what they're asking for, that's who they're building for because they can make one sale, you know, and they're set.
00:43:21
RICK JAMES
you know
00:43:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
And 200 Steves doesn't even make a drop in the bucket for their one sale with the big guy. So, I mean, that's just dollars and cents.
00:43:28
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:43:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, I think any of us would do the same thing.
00:43:33
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:43:33
Jordan Smith
Yep. Nope. I think that point is well taken too, for sure. i do think from, you know, from an OEM standpoint, building a product that can scale with the majority is always a safer bet than building a product that can scale with the elite.
00:43:48
Jordan Smith
um But Yeah, I mean, again, maybe it's just the the maybe it's just the audience we got in the survey, but I tend to believe that this survey covers a full spectrum. I mean, yes, there was a lot of the smaller companies, but we had some big companies in there too.
00:44:04
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:44:04
Jordan Smith
And this feedback this feedback was pretty universal that that this is what people want.
00:44:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
I agree with it.
00:44:10
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:44:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm just saying I think that's what the OEMs are doing. like I think that's what their game plan is.
00:44:14
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
00:44:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
like Let's manufacture one thing that we know we can make the highest sale on dollars and cents. But i like where i like where Douglas, not to keep pounding this you know dead horse here, but I like where Douglas is going where – they're making an they're they're piggybacking this onto an existing technology that doesn't need its own R&D costs to develop a whole new product.
00:44:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
They're basically making almost like a modular system where it all runs off a fleet flex sorry ah system that already exists, was already paid for in the R&D of the price of the spreader, and now they can do so many things and add these things going down the line for affordable costs. like Almost like that's what the OEM should try and do is find a...
00:44:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
A foolproof, basic platform, like you said, Jordan, that is basically, you know, what do they call that thing? um Multiplexed for adding different things so that if if you want eight other options, you can still get them.
00:45:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
But Steve can still get the cheapest, throw one switch and it's going to spread.
00:45:21
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:45:21
RICK JAMES
Basically.
00:45:23
Jordan Smith
Yeah. And that was actually one of the comments is is, you know, from an OEM standpoint, this gets hard. The more features you add, the more complicated the SKU system gets. But it says OEMs should offer both premium and stripped down options that you can bolt onto, like exactly what you just said.
00:45:37
RICK JAMES
Right.
00:45:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
Amen.
00:45:39
Jordan Smith
That was a, and that piece of feedback was not just one person.
00:45:39
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:45:42
Jordan Smith
That was that was a aggregated piece of feedback that was said by at least five people. That's how I set up my chat GPT prompt to pull. if it If more than five people said it, pull it in. So yeah, it is.
00:45:52
The SnowJobs Podcast
Is it not common sense? Like, I mean, do you guys not? i It is, right?
00:45:55
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:45:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, you guys feel the same way.
00:45:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, that would work.
00:45:57
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:45:58
RICK JAMES
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:46:01
The SnowJobs Podcast
and So there's got to be a reason they don't do it. There's got to be a reason.
00:46:05
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:46:07
Jordan Smith
So I feel like,
00:46:08
RICK JAMES
everybody Everybody wants to be first to market with them with the best thing, you know, to get the to get all the looks and, you know.
00:46:11
Jordan Smith
Well, but and there there is an element to that. I mean, and again, it it hits close to home for me because that's what that's what put us on the map. Like, don't get me wrong, VSI was was doing good ah prior to the release of our smart connected technology, but the smart connected stuff is what really blew our company up in ah in a positive way.
00:46:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:46:31
Jordan Smith
But again, like that's the whole point to this discussion is like the early adopters are the ones that want
00:46:31
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:46:39
Jordan Smith
the flash and the bells and the whistles and they don't care what the price is. Like the early adopters people, the innovators are the ones who they don't even I'm not saying they don't look at the price tag, but like the price tag is the last thing on their mind.
00:46:49
Jordan Smith
The thing is they wanna be first, they wanna have the coolest stuff, ah this, that, and the other thing, right? But then once you get past that early adopters phase on the product life cycle and you get to that early majority in the and the maturity phase of a product, like you have to have a version that doesn't only appeal to those early adopters.
00:46:55
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:47:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, 100%.
00:47:08
Jordan Smith
And you see this curve with almost everything.
00:47:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
hundred percent
00:47:11
Jordan Smith
Like like think about, we always joke about my Cybertruck, but like the Cybertruck's clearly not for everyone and it never will be. But when the Cybertruck came out, the price was up here. And then one phase later, it jumped down by 20 grand. And now they're in like phase three where it's like, hey, this is actually a practical truck. If you're a contractor working locally and you don't wanna deal with maintenance and gas and you wanna store stuff in the locking bed, like now you can buy a Cybertruck for 58,000 bucks or whatever.
00:47:38
Jordan Smith
Um, so like, they just keep stepping it down from like, you know, the crazy people like me that don't care and just buy it. And then, oh, stop it.
00:47:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
Nobody's saying that. Nobody's saying that.
00:47:46
RICK JAMES
i
00:47:46
Jordan Smith
Yes, they are.
00:47:47
RICK JAMES
It's coming. He's just waiting he says waiting to talk. He's just sitting there waiting. I was...
00:47:52
Jordan Smith
We'll never agree on this, Steve. We'll never agree.
00:47:55
The SnowJobs Podcast
My son loves your truck.
00:47:55
RICK JAMES
ah
00:47:56
The SnowJobs Podcast
My son loves it.
00:47:56
RICK JAMES
a er
00:47:57
The SnowJobs Podcast
You got him.
00:47:58
Jordan Smith
That's good. That's good.
00:48:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, but you're right. You're absolutely right. It's like with anything else. Look at technology. Look at DVD players. The first DVD player that came out, it was like $1,200, and within 18 months, it was $400. And then you couldn't give away for $80 on their way out.
00:48:10
Jordan Smith
Right. Yeah.
00:48:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
then you couldn't give him away for eighty you know what on their way out
00:48:13
Jordan Smith
yeah
00:48:13
RICK JAMES
80 bucks.
00:48:15
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it's kind of the law of diffusion of technology, I think is what they call it.
00:48:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:48:19
Jordan Smith
It's like as it diffuses to more and more people, it becomes more and more commoditized. You make it simpler, you make it more scalable. And that also means it gets cheaper.
00:48:30
Jordan Smith
And I think that's something that maybe is is, well, clearly is something that's missing in the liquids world in in the contractor realm, at least like,
00:48:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yep, 100%.
00:48:41
Jordan Smith
there's There's not that simple, affordable option right now that people are enamored with. And on the on the salting side, props to the OEMs on the on the salting side. like the The big OEMs, Boston Douglas being the two biggest, like they answered that call with solutions that are affordable and simple.
00:48:59
Jordan Smith
And that's the reason Douglas deal Deal is getting so much attention because it's it's answering the call that people have been giving is like, Make it simple. Don't make it cost an arm and a leg. And it'd be really cool if I can bolt it onto my existing equipment. And that's what Douglas did. And that's why that's why it's getting the notoriety it is.
00:49:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
And for that price point, like we've all we've all blown a lot more money on a lot less.
00:49:19
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:49:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:49:24
Jordan Smith
Yep.
00:49:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
We'll take a flyer on that. Even if the thing doesn't work, like how mad can I really be? Even if I buy this thing and it doesn't work as expected, it's $650. Like I can't even be mad at that point.
00:49:34
Jordan Smith
yeah
00:49:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
Like, all right, yeah, it didn't work. I took a shot, you know, throw it in the fucking shit heap.
00:49:39
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:49:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
But like if if it works at all for that price, it's crazy.
00:49:43
RICK JAMES
yes Yes.
00:49:45
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's great.
00:49:46
Jordan Smith
Yep. So that that kind of leads us to our our last two, which in my mind kind of fit together.
Self-Service and Dealer Reliability
00:49:53
Jordan Smith
um and And they fit the whole theme of all of this. Again, I think I just, I kind of enjoyed, ah kind of enjoy the irony of the fact that the last episode we talk about the bells and whistles and flash and autonomy, you know, of what the future might look like. But then when people and contractors tell us what they actually want, it's like simplicity, affordability.
00:50:13
Jordan Smith
But then the last thing is like, Self-serviceability. So I found this one interesting um because, and it's actually a question we asked on the survey this year, like, what, you know, is your deal is your local dealer a big driver
00:50:25
RICK JAMES
Thank you.
00:50:32
Jordan Smith
for the reason that you're buying whatever product you're buying. Like is your dealer, so like let's say you have a really good Western dealer in your town and that's why you go with Western.
00:50:38
The SnowJobs Podcast
this.
00:50:41
Jordan Smith
You have a really good boss dealer in your town, that's why you go with boss. you have a really good Catechlear dealer in your town, that's why you go with cat. Like you always hear that like, well, I went with it because of my dealer. And I think there is still a big element to that.
00:50:52
Jordan Smith
But based on some of this feedback, What I'm hearing and seeing from the responses is give us stuff that is not only simple, but stuff that I can self-service myself to.
00:51:03
Jordan Smith
like Like if it's two in the morning and my stuff stops working, I don't wanna have to hook it up to my laptop and flash a a software update to make it work.
00:51:14
Jordan Smith
Like, let me turn a wrench to fix it.
00:51:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:51:17
Jordan Smith
Let me put a voltmeter
00:51:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
100%.
00:51:17
RICK JAMES
good
00:51:18
Jordan Smith
on a wiring harness to figure out where the short is. Let me use a test light to to solve this thing. Sort of like the good old days, as they as they say, you know, like bring me back to where I can fix my own stuff.
00:51:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
said
00:51:31
Jordan Smith
And some of the feedback that came out of here is like, if OEMs were giving us stuff that we could fix ourselves, then the dealer would be less of a concern. Like I would just buy exactly what I want instead of buying who the best dealer is.
00:51:46
Jordan Smith
And, you know, maybe that's a cautionary tale for dealers, but I thought that one was was pretty interesting.
00:51:46
RICK JAMES
Okay.
00:51:51
Jordan Smith
Like one of the quotes was, my best machines are the ones that I can fix with a wrench and a YouTube video. And the more technology that's in something, the less that that's the case, right?
00:52:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, 100%.
00:52:05
RICK JAMES
I'll give you a little, like our, our Schmidt salters we have, you know, those German made Schmidt salters we have, those things are pretty, so I mean, those things are rock solid, great salters, hardly ever, never had an issue, maybe a sensor once in a while, but we're anyway, to the point here, if my, if my brain box goes down on that thing, they got that thing designed. and I just got to go to the back. I just turn a couple of wing nuts and I can just run it manually. Just throw the PTO on it and then it still runs that same rate. Oh, I want it, whatever. So,
00:52:34
RICK JAMES
They did that thing beautifully where if my electronics go down, i can still use that salter. so course I mean, that's ah that's kind of what you're saying, right? Just something simple like that.
00:52:44
Jordan Smith
Yeah, totally.
00:52:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah Yeah, like not having a faulty O2 sensor shut an entire machine down and not be able to do a damn thing about it.
00:52:45
RICK JAMES
so
00:52:49
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:52:50
RICK JAMES
Right. Yeah.
00:52:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah you know
00:52:53
Jordan Smith
Right.
00:52:54
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:52:55
Jordan Smith
No, that's exactly right.
00:52:55
RICK JAMES
I don't know.
00:52:56
Jordan Smith
And I think that's honestly, Jeremy, that's a perfect example is like the the pushback that the OEMs would say or the dealers would say is like, well, you want some of this tech.
00:53:07
Jordan Smith
And like, if you're going to have the tech, it's going to have brain a brain box or a module, I think is the the common nomenclature for that is a module. So like beggars can't be choosers. You want the tech, you're going to deal with the pain.
00:53:18
Jordan Smith
But Schmidt said, nope, you don't have to. We understand that in the middle of the night that a wiring harness or a module can go bad. Here's a solution. And it's extremely simple.
00:53:29
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:53:30
Jordan Smith
That to me, that just makes a ton of sense.
00:53:30
The SnowJobs Podcast
Mm-hmm.
00:53:30
RICK JAMES
It's great.
00:53:32
Jordan Smith
and And I'm not saying it's possible in every scenario, but I feel like it should, from an engineering standpoint, we should be thinking about that to a very high degree is like, how do you make this thing you know Maybe you can't get it back to perfection at two in the morning in the cold, but you can get it back to usable at two in the morning in the cold until you can get the part you need.
00:53:49
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:53:50
Jordan Smith
All right.
00:53:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right.
00:53:51
RICK JAMES
Exactly.
00:53:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Cynical Steve coming in. They don't do it because they want you to have to have the dealer come out and get you for the $200, $300 call out.
00:53:53
RICK JAMES
Oh, boy.
00:54:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's how the dealers make their money for selling that brand of product. i I'm a firm believer in that. um I pick products that I'm hoping I won't need a dealer that I have local to rely on because dealers, I think it's more important than ever that if you're buying a product that you have a good dealer in the area that with a great rep because dealers have less and less mechanics.
00:54:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
The mechanics do not stay there long term anymore. They are you know in one door, out the other. um So you you find a dealership of any OEM in your area that has had mainstay mechanics for years and years and is not, you know, it's a great environment to work. The guys there are happy.
00:54:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
Everybody seems good. Then you latch on to that dealer. I would buy that brand just doing that because you're seeing it all over the place with all sorts of dealers. you know They just don't have the manpower anymore. They don't have the guys. And the guys that they do have and can get in the door, they're just getting anybody in the door, some of these dealers, and they don't have the faintest idea how to fix your machine.
00:55:02
Jordan Smith
I don't even know if that's cynical as much as just accurate. I mean, ah like a lot of...
00:55:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, I mean, I feel like it's accurate, but I could just be a cynical bastard.
00:55:09
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:55:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
you know I believe that's really...
00:55:11
RICK JAMES
yeah ah <unk>re We're really breaking down Steve tonight.
00:55:13
Jordan Smith
Well, you you are, but we'll leave that part out.
00:55:16
RICK JAMES
I love this. I love this.
00:55:19
Jordan Smith
Steve's a pretty easy guy to figure out, you know?
00:55:21
RICK JAMES
Coming out of shell.
00:55:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm pretty black and white, no?
00:55:23
Jordan Smith
Yes.
00:55:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
I mean, don't sugarcoat it.
00:55:24
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:55:25
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
00:55:26
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
00:55:27
RICK JAMES
Really?
00:55:27
Jordan Smith
No, I think that's right.
00:55:27
RICK JAMES
I don't
00:55:30
Jordan Smith
um but But I think that's, and and you know economics always come into play.
00:55:32
RICK JAMES
know.
00:55:37
Jordan Smith
ah So maybe it's not sustainable for the current models that are out there with the two-step distribution and all this stuff. Like everyone's got to eat. Like they probably need to sell parts and sell service to survive. But in ah In a more and more direct to end user, direct to consumer world, like OEMs might need to start adapting to that.
00:56:00
Jordan Smith
um
00:56:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's possible. I'd love it.
00:56:01
Jordan Smith
like Like think about some of the biggest brands on earth. Like ah maybe this is a bad example, but like think about Ikea. Ikea found a way, don't get me wrong, it's crappy furniture, but Ikea found a way to to to sell you a piece of unassembled furniture, give you an instruction manual and tools to build it yourself.
00:56:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:56:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
like Yes.
00:56:21
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:56:21
Jordan Smith
and and you don't even need your own tools.
00:56:21
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:56:21
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yes.
00:56:22
Jordan Smith
It comes with the tools and they're junk, but you can build a piece of furniture.
00:56:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
No. couple squirks.
00:56:25
RICK JAMES
you know
00:56:26
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. A couple squirks, couple of blue You're good.
00:56:26
Jordan Smith
so like
00:56:27
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:56:29
Jordan Smith
If a company like Ikea can can you know kit something up to the point where they can sell unassembled furniture direct to consumer, why can't we get to a place with equipment where at least they can self-service stuff well enough to keep using it until the until dealer or the manufacturer directly sends them the part that they need?
00:56:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah.
00:56:45
Jordan Smith
And then also make it so the part just goes on and it's not like an eight-hour dissection of the machine to fix it, right?
00:56:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
yeah
00:56:52
RICK JAMES
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:54
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think that's half of the reason why you're seeing guys half of its price. But I think that's the other half of the reason you're seeing guys look at these like you guys with the XCMGs, the lower tech loaders, the lower tech stuff like give me a give me a ah bulletproof diesel and fly by wire stuff that I can think, like you said, with a wrench and not with a computer that I got to hook up.
00:57:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
And, you know, those machines are going to be cheaper. like the wolf loaders we were talking about, those are very interesting for compact loaders.
00:57:22
RICK JAMES
Yep.
00:57:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Those are pretty damn interesting at that price point that, you know, like you said, is ah I'll take a flyer on that for that price point.
00:57:25
RICK JAMES
Yep. 100%.
00:57:26
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:27
RICK JAMES
yeah
00:57:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
If it sucks, okay, it's not going to, you know, again, I've blown more money on on less sure things.
00:57:33
RICK JAMES
got
00:57:39
The SnowJobs Podcast
so
00:57:39
Jordan Smith
yeah
00:57:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
But I think that's part of the problem too, i think or not part of the problem. i think that's part of the reason guys are are looking for lower tech options out there.
00:57:47
RICK JAMES
ye
00:57:48
Jordan Smith
Well, and I think it's, I think maybe it's a ah cautionary tale to, again, the conventional two-step distribution and sales system.
00:57:48
RICK JAMES
hundred
00:57:58
Jordan Smith
Like I think, yeah I'll bring up Tesla again, whatever you think about it. Like Tesla has has found a way to to have a direct sale model where they don't have dealerships. Like, You buy a Tesla on the website or on the Tesla app, and now it gets delivered to your house.
00:58:12
Jordan Smith
And if you're in certain markets, it gets delivered to your house without a driver. Like it's automatically delivering itself to your house.
00:58:17
The SnowJobs Podcast
It's awesome.
00:58:18
Jordan Smith
And when you have a problem with your Tesla, Tesla gets an alert that there's a problem with your Tesla and they'll come to your house and they'll fix it. Like that is what people, that's what people want.
00:58:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's pretty cool.
00:58:28
RICK JAMES
That's cool.
00:58:29
Jordan Smith
Like people don't want to go to the dealership. And and maybe some people do. I don't like, I fricking, I don't have to deal with that stuff.
00:58:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
No, I don't.
00:58:35
RICK JAMES
No.
00:58:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, jeez.
00:58:36
Jordan Smith
It's fricking great. Um,
00:58:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
hi
00:58:38
Jordan Smith
and And it's part of just what society is doing.
00:58:40
RICK JAMES
Well, you got to get an appointment. Nowadays, got to get an appointment to go there tell so they can tell you what's wrong with it And then get another appointment two months later to fix it. That's how all these dealers are working now.
00:58:49
Jordan Smith
Yeah. there Yes. And there is some stuff with Teslas you have to bring it in. Like if if you have an axle or something, they're not coming to your driveway to do that. But if it's an electronic thing or a battery thing, like it's either over the air or they come to you and they take care of it.
00:59:02
Jordan Smith
um Or if if it is an axle thing, you can just say like, hey, drop me off a different Tesla, take mine and and bring it back when it's done. So they found a way to go direct to consumer without having to have, you know, the the typical walk to the service desk and get a 72 point quote of 68 things you don't want and four you do.
00:59:19
RICK JAMES
Mm-hmm.
00:59:20
Jordan Smith
And like, it's it's kind of just bucking that conventional model and that that disruption. And to me, like, if you look at some of the biggest companies on earth doing these certain things, like that's the way everything goes eventually, just our industry slow to adapt.
00:59:33
Jordan Smith
So it'll be interesting to see where that all goes.
00:59:37
The SnowJobs Podcast
amen
00:59:38
Jordan Smith
So that's, I mean, that's pretty much the feedback from from this section. And I feel like it was extremely consistent minus the one flyer on the people say, I want autonomous sidewalk. And then by the way, make everything else simpler.
00:59:49
Jordan Smith
But it was a little ah little ironic, right?
00:59:50
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah. Kind of weird. I think
00:59:52
Jordan Smith
You start off with robotics and autonomy and then you go to like, let me fix it with a screwdriver myself.
00:59:53
RICK JAMES
the
00:59:58
Jordan Smith
But yeah.
00:59:58
RICK JAMES
Well, we got the robotics and then they didn't perform.
00:59:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
i
01:00:01
RICK JAMES
Let's go back to simple.
01:00:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think that was, I honestly think that was a desperation thing from having four straight winters of not being able to find anybody to work.
01:00:02
Jordan Smith
yeah
01:00:12
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
01:00:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
From 2019 on, or 20 rather, that winter on, you couldn't find anybody to work.
01:00:13
RICK JAMES
Yep.
01:00:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
Regardless of what, nobody wanted to work in any field. You know, it was like, Jesus Christmas.
01:00:22
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
01:00:24
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
01:00:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
But I think I would like to see that question asked again and see if guys still are in such demand for autonomous.
01:00:33
Jordan Smith
yeah That would be very interesting.
01:00:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
I think a lot of labor came back.
01:00:34
RICK JAMES
one of i What are those Elon robots? The the robot guys? i don't forget what they're called. Can they dishevel? Put a shovel in there? supposed to do anything you want, right?
01:00:42
Jordan Smith
I think they will actually.
01:00:44
RICK JAMES
Yeah, that'd be sweet.
01:00:46
The SnowJobs Podcast
I got to start watching the news. i don't know about that. what Elon's making robots now?
01:00:50
Jordan Smith
Optimus, yeah, they're human humanoid robots.
01:00:51
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
01:00:51
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, really?
01:00:51
RICK JAMES
Yeah, Optimum. and
01:00:54
Jordan Smith
You're supposed to be able to train them to do all kinds of manual tasks like cooking, cleaning, shoveling.
01:00:54
RICK JAMES
I don't think...
01:01:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
Cooking? Oh, no.
01:01:01
Jordan Smith
Yeah, seriously.
01:01:02
The SnowJobs Podcast
See, I keep telling Gene it's totally replaceable if I find a robot that can cook.
01:01:05
RICK JAMES
yeah
01:01:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh,
01:01:09
RICK JAMES
ah Jesus.
01:01:11
The SnowJobs Podcast
oh shit. but but
01:01:11
Jordan Smith
we wont We won't talk about the other things they can do for you, Steve.
01:01:14
RICK JAMES
yeah
01:01:15
The SnowJobs Podcast
I just
Exploring Tesla Optimus Robot
01:01:16
The SnowJobs Podcast
need cook. I'd just be happy with a cook cooking.
01:01:18
RICK JAMES
ah Yeah.
01:01:20
Jordan Smith
You can you can pre-order Optimus on Tesla's website right now if you want.
01:01:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah
01:01:24
Jordan Smith
$30,000. $30,000.
01:01:24
The SnowJobs Podcast
Really? well What are they running?
01:01:24
RICK JAMES
They're not that bad, are they? What are they?
01:01:26
Jordan Smith
thirty thousand bucks
01:01:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
How much?
01:01:28
Jordan Smith
thirty thousand
01:01:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's it?
01:01:29
RICK JAMES
Yeah. That's cheaper than an employee.
01:01:32
The SnowJobs Podcast
Then why? do Yeah, I mean, if you can get him to shovel, you don't need to get a $55,000 to $70,000 autonomous sidewalk machine. Put a snowplow shovel in the Optimus hands there.
01:01:41
RICK JAMES
There you
01:01:42
The SnowJobs Podcast
Done.
01:01:44
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's great.
01:01:45
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I think that's, yeah, it looks like, I mean, i just did a quick search.
01:01:45
RICK JAMES
go.
01:01:48
Jordan Smith
Maybe that's not the right price, but based on a quick Google follow-up, it looks like that's the price.
01:01:51
RICK JAMES
I thought I heard that too.
01:01:52
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
01:01:52
RICK JAMES
I heard that too. I'd be like, yeah, we should get a bunch of those.
01:01:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Find out if they can shovel, Jordan.
01:01:56
RICK JAMES
I think they just, you gotta teach them or whatever. So yeah, it'd be good to go.
01:01:59
The SnowJobs Podcast
Wow.
01:02:00
Jordan Smith
There we go.
01:02:00
The SnowJobs Podcast
That'd be awesome.
01:02:02
Jordan Smith
Maybe Glacier, the first company with a...
01:02:02
RICK JAMES
Until they program themselves to be pissed off about it and quit. did.
01:02:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, right?
01:02:07
Jordan Smith
well
01:02:08
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, mean, for listen, hear me out, though.
01:02:08
RICK JAMES
ai
01:02:10
The SnowJobs Podcast
For $30,000, I can get this guy that doesn't get tired. I mean, i I assume he runs on lithium ion, right, like everything else. What's the battery life?
01:02:20
Jordan Smith
I would assume so.
01:02:20
RICK JAMES
yeah
01:02:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Anybody know?
01:02:20
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it's got to be.
01:02:21
Jordan Smith
Yeah, I don't know.
01:02:22
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right. So, I mean, but he's going to go out in whatever conditions you want him to. He's goingnna shout he's going to shovel. And now he's $30,000. That's what I'm paying for an SSV with all the trimmings, so you know, with all the attachments.
01:02:35
RICK JAMES
and If he goes dead, we can hook him to a 24 volt on a loader, just strap him to a loader for a couple of hours and charge him back up and send him back out.
01:02:36
Jordan Smith
Yeah.
01:02:40
The SnowJobs Podcast
there you go get a little plutonium yeah get a little oh be great be great yeah get a little plutonium get them back in the field oh man
01:02:43
RICK JAMES
the man Can you imagine guys yelling at robots? I mean, they would.
01:02:51
Jordan Smith
so
01:02:54
Jordan Smith
It says eight to 10 hours of battery life with normal tasks. so even if even if shoveling is four hours, you can charge it in 30 minutes, it says.
01:02:58
The SnowJobs Podcast
so five absolutely that's great i'm in
01:03:01
Jordan Smith
Yes.
01:03:02
RICK JAMES
Let's go get a bus. Let's get a bus, fill it up.
01:03:06
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm in. Yeah, I'm in.
01:03:07
Jordan Smith
Let's
01:03:07
The SnowJobs Podcast
How many of these guys can I get? Let's go.
01:03:10
RICK JAMES
ah Steve's on board now.
01:03:12
Jordan Smith
a
01:03:13
RICK JAMES
Steve's on board.
01:03:13
Jordan Smith
yes
01:03:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
I'm on board with the robot guy. Absolutely.
01:03:16
Jordan Smith
let's go
01:03:16
RICK JAMES
well yeah He's going to bring one home to cook, but
01:03:17
Jordan Smith
oh
01:03:18
The SnowJobs Podcast
but
01:03:19
Jordan Smith
and and
01:03:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
Well, he's going to shovel, then he's going to cook.
01:03:22
Jordan Smith
and you can And you can put them in your self-driving Tesla to drive them site to site.
01:03:26
RICK JAMES
yes.
01:03:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
I don't have a Tesla.
01:03:27
RICK JAMES
Good call.
01:03:28
The SnowJobs Podcast
i yeah i was thinking of I was actually thinking about it, but I haven't gotten one yet.
01:03:32
Jordan Smith
They're pretty cool. um I'm a big fan.
01:03:35
The SnowJobs Podcast
I bet.
01:03:35
Jordan Smith
for For the right stuff. For cross-country, no way. I don't want to sit and charge. But for local driving around, it's pretty awesome. And the self-driving is unbelievable.
01:03:43
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's cool.
01:03:43
RICK JAMES
i
01:03:44
Jordan Smith
I don't even drive my car anymore. It drives me everywhere.
01:03:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
That's awesome.
01:03:48
Jordan Smith
Yeah, it's really cool.
01:03:49
The SnowJobs Podcast
and And it doesn't, it never screws up. Never fucks up.
01:03:51
Jordan Smith
i would I wouldn't say, no, I wouldn't say never, but I would say, i would say it, it 96% good.
01:03:53
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh, okay.
01:03:58
Jordan Smith
And when it screws up, it doesn't like crash. It's just occasionally it makes a lane change at the wrong time. And like, it has to change back right away and you look like a dumb driver. It's not like dangerous crashing. It just, it does some stuff.
01:04:08
Jordan Smith
It's like, I wouldn't have done that if I was driving.
01:04:10
RICK JAMES
That's a normal person. That's a normal driver nowadays.
01:04:11
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Right.
01:04:12
The SnowJobs Podcast
Yeah, exactly.
01:04:13
Jordan Smith
Right. Right.
01:04:14
RICK JAMES
ah
01:04:14
The SnowJobs Podcast
You driven in New York city lately?
01:04:17
RICK JAMES
well
01:04:17
Jordan Smith
Yeah. Oh, actually. Yeah. Just a few weeks ago. It's horrible.
01:04:19
The SnowJobs Podcast
Oh
Conclusion and Event Promotion
01:04:20
The SnowJobs Podcast
man. It's really bad. All right.
01:04:22
Jordan Smith
Yep.
01:04:23
The SnowJobs Podcast
Anything else, bud?
01:04:25
Jordan Smith
That's what I got tonight, boys.
01:04:27
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right. Sounds good.
01:04:28
RICK JAMES
I appreciate it.
01:04:29
The SnowJobs Podcast
See in a couple days.
01:04:29
Jordan Smith
You bet. Yeah, it'll be fun.
01:04:31
RICK JAMES
Yeah.
01:04:33
The SnowJobs Podcast
All right, then i guess we'll I guess we'll wrap it there then.
01:04:33
RICK JAMES
It's going to be good time.
01:04:36
The SnowJobs Podcast
So Snow Jobs Nation, that'll wrap part three of the Storm Contractor Survey Series. As always, want to thank Jordan for coming on with us, giving us the time. He's a busy, busy dude.
01:04:47
The SnowJobs Podcast
ah He's always got something going on, always traveling. So ah we're glad he finally got back to us and and we were able to work this out. So if you guys have not got your tickets for Storm Day, it is next week. Get them soon, and we will see you out there. right? Jeremy's going. I'm going.
01:05:03
The SnowJobs Podcast
Ron Devenbenzo, I heard, is making the trip there. He's ah requested a parking spot. So he's going. Yeah, a lot of good people. It'll be a great time.
01:05:13
The SnowJobs Podcast
Get it done. Get your tickets, and we'll see you there. That's it, guys. Have a great weekend, and be safe out there. Keep pushing.