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Saving Face
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Emma & Katie discuss the 2004 lesbian romcom Saving Face, and get distracted Final Destination movies, The Club, age gaps, skinny scarves, a (very) brief history of Taiwan, and Emma finally reveals her Pride and Prejudice quiz results!
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Transcript
Emma's Promise and Character Test
00:00:01
Speaker
Here we are. um i have realized in the passing episodes that have been ah like going out live that I made a promise that I did not stick to.
00:00:14
Speaker
i knew shocker. Which is which episode? and The Pride and Prejudice episode. Oh, okay. I said that I would take the test.
00:00:25
Speaker
And I never, and I didn't tell you who my characters are, Katie. That's right. I forgot. Yes. Well, I took the test.
Character Test Results: Lizzie and Caroline Mix
00:00:36
Speaker
And I'm 50-50 mix.
00:00:39
Speaker
But not the 50-50 mix thought I was. Okay. I am a 50-50 mix of Lizzie. Sure.
00:00:49
Speaker
and Mr. Bingley's sister. The evil one? The evil one! was like, what? Caroline Bingley? Caroline Bingley. The villain of the piece? Interesting. I just have very high standards, I guess. I don't know. So was one of the questions like, do you hate poor people? And you were like, yes, and that's why.
00:01:13
Speaker
Let it be known. No. No. no I don't hate poor people. I know you don't.
Anxieties About Dystopian Reality
00:01:25
Speaker
I like the way you said that. It's okay. I know you don't.
00:01:32
Speaker
um But yeah, I completely forgot. And then i I've been meaning to say what my results are for like however many episodes it's been since that one came out. So...
00:01:44
Speaker
I'm sure all of our listeners were waiting with bated breath. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Which is why I had to let you The dozens of people who listened to that episode. Exactly. Exactly.
00:01:55
Speaker
um How are you? um' ah this i People ask me that every day. you know, like, how you how are you? I'm like, I don't fucking know. don't fucking know anymore. Everything sucks.
00:02:07
Speaker
Everything sucks. The world's a mess. We're another step closer to A Handmaid's Tale IRL. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, for real. um So, you know, doing my best.
00:02:19
Speaker
Yeah, I feel that. Hanging out.
Mythbusters Fascination and Car Safety
00:02:22
Speaker
ah Been watching a lot of Mythbusters. Have we talked about Mythbusters on the show? We have talked about you your weird fascination with miss Mythbusters.
00:02:31
Speaker
I didn't remember if that was on the show or if that was just just between us. so I actually don't know if it was on the show, but you you have a weird fascination or a weird appreciation for Mythbusters. It's a great show.
00:02:42
Speaker
Great show. What was the myth du jour? Oh, God, I don't know. um What's the most recent? The most recent one I watched, I think, was um talking about things in the backseat killing you ah in a car crash. Oh.
00:02:56
Speaker
So, like like, when you, so they were testing, like, you know, when you hit, like, how much force is imparted on, like, items that you might have on the, on the like, you know, like, older cars, I guess. Yeah.
00:03:08
Speaker
It's I have a Prius, so um my car doesn't have this, but I guess a lot of cars have this like the shelf behind the back seat where the the back windshield is. Yeah. um Flying forward and hitting the hitting you if you're driving and killing you.
00:03:20
Speaker
And um yeah, that'll do it. they They prove that that's a that's a danger. Oh, yeah, it's a huge danger. But, I mean, the other thing about that is that, like, the amount of force necessary for those things to kill you, you'd probably also be very badly hurt by the accident that you were in that imparted that pressure onto it.
00:03:40
Speaker
But, um yeah, so don't put, like, a hatchet in the in the shelf in the back of your car, for example. Who would do that? A lot of people, I guess. I
Final Destination Car Crash Discussion
00:03:49
Speaker
don't know. Seems insane.
00:03:51
Speaker
Absolutely insane. No, thank The... the the The tissue box, which is what I think a lot of people used to to put there, I guess, yeah is um like too light to to really hurt you.
00:04:10
Speaker
I was going to say, a murder weapon? um I think something like this happens in Final Destination. Oh, big time. Yeah. Yeah. yeah I mean, my favorite bit from Final Destination is when she... This is later. It's not the main log car crash. Yeah. It's later on. One of the survivor women is... She's in a car and she's trying to get away from something and she hits...
00:04:37
Speaker
Um, something, I don't remember. And this, um, big pipe goes through the back of the car. And just misses her. And then she's like sitting there and she can't get, she's stuck in the car. She can't get out. the people are there with the jaws of life.
00:04:51
Speaker
And when he activates the jaws of life, it activates the airbag, which knocks her head into the thing. That one was so good. It was so good. Yeah. So she ends up being shish kebabed.
00:05:03
Speaker
yeah We watched, i've I've decided, so we've watched one, two, and three. And um right now... Three's really good, too. Three's my favorite. Yeah, yeah. I think, in retrospect, i think I think the log, I've seen four of them.
00:05:17
Speaker
Okay. i think I think the log bit is the best scene out of those four. But I think the third one is the best movie. Yeah, oh, for sure. The third one I was The rollercoaster thing is really cool, too. But the log thing is, I think, the best thing they've done in any of those movies.
00:05:32
Speaker
I haven't seen the new one or... The one before that, i don't even know how many there are I think there's six. There's like six. Yeah. um um We're slowly working our way through it. um But like, I i honestly, i thought the log bit was going to be a little bit more realistic.
00:05:47
Speaker
ah When I saw it But like it was another like chain reaction Sort of thing and so Cause like yeah I always thought that it was like um A truck with like logs just like Abruptly stops and one of the logs just sort of like Goes back and skewers you But that's not it Which mean will happen Like that can definitely happen yeah But that that's not the bit I mean it will happen to everyone At some point you will be skewered by a log Coming from the log truck It is is canon
00:06:18
Speaker
But it's like a chain reaction thing. And so like I that took me out and then my fear is not as intense. But ah yeah, that's the thing. Yeah, they're so silly that it's hard to really get.
00:06:30
Speaker
because like the idea behind it is like these are things that could happen but like they can't really happen really because like a lot of times things are just telekinetically moving around on their own you know it's just like how did that happen mean i think the most stressful one was in three in the gym because you just you knew that ah a murder was coming and yeah it just like kept almost like happening and then not happening and then They play with tension pretty well. That's that's that's the really fun part about like the kills in there. Because it like keeps giving you Mr. X. It's like, oh this is oh, no, that was a setup for this other thing.
00:07:04
Speaker
And that that's that's super fun. That's a really fun thing to do in a horror movie. um Because you know the person's going to die. like It's a horror movie. Yeah, exactly. So it's all about like how it's going to happen, which is why we watch. yeah Exactly.
Cousin's Wedding and Social Preferences
00:07:19
Speaker
Well, I just got back from Nebraska. Yeah. ah corn beautiful omaha nebraska beautiful omaha nebraska it's a place um you didn't have fun no i had a lot of been a week i spent a week in omaha in 2018 and i thought it was great yeah i i mean like the city itself is fine but like it it was suck it omaha damn
00:07:48
Speaker
I mean, no offense to anyone who lives in Omaha, but like it was it was fine. um and But I was there for my cousin Jackson's wedding and it was beautiful and fantastic and gorgeous. um There were fireworks on the dance floor. It was insane. and um On the dance floor?
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah. They had like those little things, you know, like though um when you go to clubs in it and you get like table service. Yeah. No. No, I don't.
00:08:13
Speaker
I don't know when you go to clubs and get table service. I've actually never done that. um They have little, like, um sparklers that come out of the shampoo. Sparklers. Sure, sure. they were, like, giant sparklers.
00:08:29
Speaker
have a picture on my Instagram. It was pretty sweet. It may surprise you to learn that I'm not a big club person. But even when I have been to clubs... When I have been to clubs, I've never gotten bottle service or table service. No. i only got bottle service a few times because it.
00:08:50
Speaker
Jesus Christ. Isn't it like thousands of dollars? I didn't pay it. I didn't pay that money. Oh, sure sure sure sure, sure, sure, sure. Yeah. When we were in Barcelona, we just made friends with like people that were super rich or like owned the club.
00:09:05
Speaker
And so but my girlfriends and I would go and get bottle service. um Or we would sit with these guys and get bottle service. Okay.
00:09:15
Speaker
And, ah but yeah, it's not like a regular thing that I do. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Um...
Introversion vs. Extroversion
00:09:24
Speaker
This is the hookup culture disconnect between the two of us. If you'll from our what's your number episode.
00:09:31
Speaker
um and i and And I'm no, no judgment. hey Very, very realistic. Very seriously. No judgment. It's just not my experience. I i never really did that. Yeah.
00:09:41
Speaker
Yeah, I did it all the time. i also did it a lot in my 20s to get ah free shots. ah i was I was a master at getting free shots. I'm also not really a drinker.
00:09:54
Speaker
That's true. ah Very, very true. And I remember there was one point when... Emma's fun and exciting and Katie is lame and boring is the undercurrent here. Fun and exciting when my social battery is charged.
00:10:06
Speaker
When my social battery is not charged, I like my couch. Well, that's true of everyone, really. But, like, you would still consider yourself an extrovert, right? i consider myself extrovert.
00:10:19
Speaker
and an extroverted introvert or an introverted extrovert in that like yeah I enjoy going out for like small periods of time and when I'm out I'm having fun I'm having a great time I'm making friends we're doing it we're doing the thing um but there comes a point in every evening when I just really want to go home and be put my sweatpants on and and yeah sit on my couch and just not talk to anybody I don't like to be alone.
00:10:49
Speaker
That's the thing. like I need a little bit alone time. I mean, i mean a little bit. Sometimes. But most of the time, I would rather be hanging out with somebody than being and being alone.
00:11:01
Speaker
And like most of the time, that that person is Caitlin. you know Yeah, just yeah, yeah. Great time hanging out on the couch with Caitlin. But like if Caitlin has plans and I don't have plans, then I don't know what to do.
00:11:13
Speaker
you know like I love it. despair. and No, I know. I know. You love your Charlie vacation.
Upcoming England Trip and Alone Time
00:11:18
Speaker
I love my Charlie vacation. My Charlie vacations, which I'm going to get one in like less than a month. I'm so excited.
00:11:28
Speaker
Um, where are you going? I'm not going anywhere. Well, so we're going to, yeah. So we're going to England for our, uh, like really good friends, Kyle and Laura, they're getting married.
00:11:40
Speaker
And, um, because you know, it's one of our yearly or bi-yearly trips to England. We, um, go for usually like a week and a half to two weeks. Um, and then Because Charlie is English, in case this is your first episode.
00:11:53
Speaker
Yes, he is British. And Charlie has two weddings to attend to when he's in England. I'm not attending the second one, ah which is for one of our friends, um not my cousin Maddie, a different Maddie. don't like.
00:12:07
Speaker
Okay, and you don't know no like no, I do like I'm just not as close to her as I am with Kyle and Laura. And I don't get PTO because some of us work in a gig economy, baby.
00:12:21
Speaker
ah So Charlie was like, should I go to this? I mean, I do get PTO, but like, oh yeah no, I don't. ah But that's because I choose to work 80 jobs. um You do. That's true.
00:12:33
Speaker
ah And so Charlie was like, should should I stay? Is that okay if I stay and go to this other wedding? And I was like, she's your childhood friend. Like, yeah. Stay. Stay.
00:12:44
Speaker
Stay a week. Stay two. I mean, maybe three. oh um Anything longer than that, don't stay. But yeah, stay. Stay. Give yourself all the time in the world. I wouldn't sleep. Like, I can't i can't sleep alone. love it.
00:13:00
Speaker
And like, But the problem is like also um it's – so there's there's a different kinds of hangouts. Like i my my understanding of the introvert-extrovert thing is that an introvert recharges by being alone and an extrovert recharges by being around people.
00:13:17
Speaker
It doesn't necessarily mean that introverts never want to be around people or extroverts never want to be alone.
Struggles with Writing and Pressure
00:13:23
Speaker
But I absolutely will get more energy from hanging out with someone even if it's just one-on-one with a friend.
00:13:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Um, than, than being alone, like in the afternoon, like with nothing to do. And like, I have plenty of things to do. I could be fucking writing. This is part of why I have like such poor production. It's crazy because I'm, i write really fast yeah and so I have no problem like turning out a script, yeah but like sitting down and starting to write absolute fucking nightmare.
00:13:59
Speaker
Such an, I hate it. Um, But like if someone gave me a deadline of like you have to write a full length play in three days, I can absolutely do it. I've done it. I had a whole class on it in grad school where we wrote a play in 72 hours, six weeks in a row. So like, I know I can do it, but I just, don't use my time.
00:14:19
Speaker
I don't use my time wisely and I have to force myself to do it. um yeah I always misattribute this. um I don't remember who said it originally, but it's someone's a famous writer said, um no, I hate writing.
00:14:30
Speaker
I love having written. That's how I feel. I get that. I get that. I get that. Absolutely.
00:14:42
Speaker
it's just, it's the initiating and doing it. I think that a lot of my, recharging when I'm alone is because so all of my jobs are social facing jobs.
Social Job's Emotional Toll
00:14:52
Speaker
And so like, I have to socialize or act or like be like today, one of my jobs, I was being told that my dad was dying multiple times.
00:15:01
Speaker
Me and my brother. Yeah, that's rough. Three times in a row, we're being told that our dad was dying. um And then, you know, and then the bridal story, you're just like, you always have to be like on because you have to be like a hype woman.
00:15:16
Speaker
So it's like sometimes when I get a free moment, I just really just want to like sit and be quiet and not do it. Yeah. Not to say that I don't love people and don't love going out. I love going out.
00:15:30
Speaker
Don't get me wrong. Love it. Love it. Love a good night out on the town. Love a good club. um When was the last time I went to a club? Probably before COVID.
00:15:44
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, I don't know if I've been to a club since COVID. I think maybe once I've been to a club since COVID. My problem is that I don't have any confidence ah in like dancing or like my general physicality of my body. It's just a lot of like boom, boom, boom, boom. boom boom boom And then move your butt.
00:16:05
Speaker
Move your butt. I just feel like everyone's looking at me and thinking like, what is wrong with her? You know, like that's my I'm very I i have very poor um self-confidence and body image issues. You'll be shocked to learn. Yeah. ah Yeah, same, except for when I've had a a few cocktails and I'm at the club, I think the opposite.
00:16:23
Speaker
think oh sure everyone thinks that I'm like so pretty.
00:16:33
Speaker
Good for you. Yeah, that's ah if I was sober and doing that, I would think the exact same of like, well I'm I'm an idiot. I feel so stupid. Yeah. But um but that's the confidence that alcohol gives you guys.
00:16:46
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, man, I don't think I have a segue for this. None of those things.
00:16:55
Speaker
Well, dancing, dancing. There is dancing. That's true. I guess it's a club. I guess china the planet ah the planet China is a club. Yeah, kind of.
00:17:07
Speaker
It's a club of sorts. Yeah, that's right, guys. You
Introduction to 'Saving Face' Episode and Alice Wu
00:17:11
Speaker
guessed it. This is Go Get Your Girl. This is the podcast where Emma and Katie um you know discuss how their pregnant mothers are kicked out of their grandfather grandparents' house and now have to come and live with them, who they are kind of closeted, but not really closeted,
00:17:31
Speaker
and uh are starting embarking on a new relationship and all the trials and tribulations of trying to get their mother married so that she can move back in with her parent with her your grant our grandparents not to mention our traditional chinese conservative upbringing yes and our traditional chinese conservative upbringing that's right guys i'm emma And I'm Katie, and today we are talking about the 2004 movie Saving Face.
00:18:02
Speaker
Yeah! with then to Written and directed by Alice wu who made one other movie in 2020, and nothing before and nothing since. And there's um there's a bit of a story there, but um her movie that she made in 2020 is The Half of it I don't know if you saw that.
00:18:18
Speaker
Yeah, it's on Netflix. It's really cute. It's a Cyrano de Bergerac-y kind movie. gay teen rom-com yeah yeah but um so alice wu was a she is is still alive but when she was when she she went she graduated high school at 16 and went to mit and was a software engineer for microsoft in the early ninety s jesus um very very successful like corporate tech person And she started writing a novel and she with her writing group and stuff found like people told her hey this would make a good screenplay.
00:18:55
Speaker
And she decided to go to like one of those screenplay seminar camp things that are prevalent in LA she was at Microsoft so I guess that means she was in where's Microsoft um in francisco francisco Washington.
00:19:08
Speaker
No, no. Microsoft is in Seattle, I think. Oh. It doesn't matter. no no I don't know. umm ah I ah glance learned this from Wikipedia earlier today. This is not a research-based podcast. This is Katie's fun fact.
00:19:21
Speaker
Katie's fun fact. And she, um yeah, she turned this into a screenplay with with some help and decided to... um moved to New York and she gave herself um five years to get this um movie made and she did. it won a big award from like um an Asian screenwriting award. I don't remember what it was called, but that really helped.
00:19:47
Speaker
And it, ah she was able to write and direct it herself for very little money. And this movie kind of became a cult classic. Yeah. um And It's kind of autobiographical based on her own coming out and her traditional Taiwanese American mom who did had did not have a good reaction to her being gay.
00:20:10
Speaker
um Kind of what's interesting, though, is after this movie came out, instead of making more movies, she kind of semi-retired because her mother was very ill. um And then she took the next like 10 to 15 years to take care of her mother.
00:20:25
Speaker
Oh, my God. Um, who apparently got better. yeah Um, I don't know. That's just, this is all just from the internet. And, uh, and then she made the half of it, which was also, I mean, it was on Netflix. So how big of a success can it be? You know?
00:20:40
Speaker
Um, but, uh, supposedly is working on more things now. So that's awesome. That's fantastic. yeah Geez. I did not know all of that. And she had enough money left over from working at Microsoft in the early 90s to not have to have a job in that yeah intervening time, apparently. so Nice.
00:20:54
Speaker
That's the dream, right? Yeah. Oh, boy. Man, oh, man. But, like, also, like, only 20 years could you, like, Never made a movie. She was able to, her script was so good that she was able to negotiate with these people to let her direct it, even though she never made it.
00:21:11
Speaker
I don't know if she'd ever been on a film set before. I imagine that she probably did some PA work and stuff, like, when she was in New York. that's That's not in, I didn't read enough about that, but, like, she'd certainly never, like, worked on, and she has no credits before, so...
00:21:27
Speaker
Yeah. And like, never in a million years would let you do that now. Right? Never in a million years. Like, you would be laughed out of every single room. um Yeah. i When I was looking at the cast list, because this movie is... I really... Okay.
00:21:42
Speaker
I went on a journey with this movie, Katie. oh i started out, i was yes, I'm here for it. Digging
Initial Impressions and Themes of 'Saving Face'
00:21:49
Speaker
it. Love it. Then, I personally thought that to...
00:21:54
Speaker
to um the middle part dragged a little bit. i and But then by the end I was like, oh no, wait, I like this. Cause like I came down, watched it in chunks and I came downstairs and was like- most movies are meant to be watched. As most. In three different pieces on your phone while you're doing other things. Exactly.
00:22:15
Speaker
And so I came downstairs and I was like, yeah, it's fine. It's okay. And then by the time the movie ended, I was like, I retract my statement. The movie it was great. I loved it. Good. Neither of us had seen this one before. You hadn't seen this either?
00:22:30
Speaker
No, no, I hadn't seen it. I um i just knew that it was considered a you know a cult classic lesbian rom-com. Yeah. yeah No, I thoroughly enjoyed it. What did what do you think?
00:22:41
Speaker
um Yeah, I love it. I thought it was great. yeah um It is... it i I would still say it's a comedy. There are like jokes in it and stuff, but there is a bit more like serious stuff in this movie than a lot of the other stuff that we cover.
00:22:56
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that, like, based on the poster and based on sort of, like, going in knowing that it's, like, a gay rom-com, I was expecting maybe a little bit more jokes. Maybe that's why it dragged a little bit for me. Which which poster? The two of them on the bus? The blue poster?
00:23:15
Speaker
The one of her and her mom and her mom in the um wedding dress. Yeah, because there's two, because that's a shot from the movie, but there's, it looks like it's one of those things where it's like, oh, this is like a, like, this is a good poster, and then it's like the terrible DVD cover.
00:23:29
Speaker
So in the movie, they're on a bus together at the end, sitting far apart, sitting on opposite window seats of the bench or the backseat of a bus, looking at each other. Her mom is in the wedding dress. It looks like it's a rom-com between the two of them. Yeah, which is why I was like ah confused a little bit. Yeah. yeah um And like, what?
00:23:47
Speaker
But it looks very rom-com. But in DVD cover, they Photoshop them out of a bus and onto a park bench in New York. And with a very friendly font that looks much more rom-com-y than indie movie.
00:23:59
Speaker
Oh, that's the one that saw. they've moved them closer together. Yeah. Because in the scene, there's there's like a big space in between them. Yeah. um Which is like, you know, what the movies about?
00:24:10
Speaker
Yeah. But it is... Oh, God, I hate DVD covers so bad. So many DVD covers are so fucking terrible. it's kind This is like a The Apartment level like um horrible DVD cover. Yeah. It's like a white background. It almost looks like Mural's wedding, but like gay.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah. but it's it's It's Central Park. it's it they it's um Yeah, it's the skyline. Do you see the... um the the the original one the blue one now oh yeah i see the blue one now but that's not the one that i saw i saw i saw no no no the dvd cover yeah yeah where they're like smushed yeah yeah yeah what they're doing that one yeah that and yeah there's a picture there's in the blue there's like you know um there's a picture of the of ah vivian and and her uh like i think standing outside with the hot dogs maybe um
00:25:04
Speaker
But yeah, it looks like a a love story between Joan Chen and um the other actress whose name I've already forgotten. Yeah, her and her mom, ah which it's not. it It is in that it is about their, I mean, it is more of a story about them than I think that it is about the relationship.
00:25:21
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. it is ah It's a story about her and her mom. Michelle Krusyuk is I'm going to choose to pronounce that. Yeah. yeah um But yeah, so this movie is... um ah So yeah, we did Alice Wu. 2004.
00:25:36
Speaker
Set in New York. Lesbian rom-com. kind like... um lesian ro and kind of like Very, God, because wait, um Imagine Me and You, is Imagine Me and You the same year, actually?
00:25:53
Speaker
Is it? Then 2004 is the year for the lesbian rom-com. I mean, I'm not going to lie. It's 2005. Oh my God. thousand five Look at that. Interesting. I mean, this movie is actually written and directed by a lesbian, of course. So, yeah you know, it has that going for it.
00:26:07
Speaker
Yeah. A woman. Yeah. And you can tell by straight man the lack of homophobic jokes. ah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's some homophobia in it, but not necessarily homophobic jokes. But not not used for comedy. It's not used for comedy. Right, right, right, right, right. yeah Yeah.
00:26:26
Speaker
Although, to be fair, most of the lesbians that I know definitely tell homophobic jokes a lot um or say things that would be considered homophobic jokes. But yes, this movie stars Joan Chen, um who is in The Last Emperor, and Twin Peaks is what I knew her from. She's Josie in Twin Peaks.
00:26:45
Speaker
um Just incredibly beautiful woman. um Michelle Krusiek. michelle k cruac And Lin Chen are the the the actual lovers in this movie.
00:26:58
Speaker
um Will, Wilhelmina, and Vivian. Vivian. Who are both have a lot of TV credits and not a lot else. Yeah. um um that's That was the moment today when I was like, oh my god, I wonder what else they were in because they were so good. like really loved both of them as actors in this.
00:27:15
Speaker
And I was just like, well, obviously they must have gone on to bigger and better things from this movie in 2004. Yeah. 20, almost like a little over 20 years ago. And then I looked at their IMDb and I was like, I fucking hate Hollywood.
00:27:29
Speaker
hu Because they've both been Grey's Anatomy at separate times in like multi-episode arcs. yeah And so much, I mean, Michelle Krusek was in that Netflix show, Hollywood. um and I don't know what that is.
00:27:45
Speaker
It was the show that was like, About ah like old Hollywood and they... It had Darren Criss in it. And... Oh, well, that's why I didn't watch it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's that Ryan Murphy nonsense. Yeah. She was going to watch a Ryan Murphy show.
00:28:03
Speaker
But like, other than that, all of her other credits are like, you know, doctor or, um you know, oh sure tocan Asian lady. yeah yeah And I was just like, are you fucking kidding me? She went from this amazing, beautiful film where she really got to act her socks off to then being like um token Asian lady at checkout.
00:28:23
Speaker
Yeah. You know, like I fucking hate Hollywood. Yeah. It's a bad place. It's a bad place. um ah Michelle Krzyk is in The Invitation, which is a fun and horror movie. Have you seen that?
00:28:36
Speaker
I haven't. It's on my list. it's It's fun. It's not great, but it's yeah it's fun.
00:28:45
Speaker
Good ending to that movie. ah So yeah, we um the the opening shot of this movie tells us where we are, I'm sure you appreciated that. yeah New York City, baby! Um, she's on the Manhattan Bridge going from what I presume is like central Brooklyn. We never really find out where she lives.
00:29:04
Speaker
No, her mom lives in Flushing. Yeah, her mom lives in Flushing. And that's where like the Chinese America, the Taiwanese American community is.
Taiwanese-American Culture in 'Saving Face'
00:29:10
Speaker
Yeah. So they are, they're Taiwanese. Um, and the, I, history of China is kind of, um, beyond the scope of this podcast.
00:29:21
Speaker
But, uh, Taiwan. You don't know enough about it to really... Taiwan is what, so when people talk about mainland China, and they're talking about um China excluding ah Taiwan, pretty much.
00:29:36
Speaker
Taiwan is an unrecognized ah separate state from the Communist Party-run country of China. um They operate their own government, ah but under constant um assault ah from from the the People's Republic of China.
00:29:58
Speaker
um So most of the Chinese movies that people in America are going to be familiar with are from either Hong Kong, which was previously not part of China,
00:30:10
Speaker
and taiwan so most of the um most of the action movies and stuff like that come that that were that became popular in cult classics in uh in america were made in what some people call free china which would be taiwan and until 1997 hong kong
00:30:30
Speaker
um but there's a lot more to it than that um there's a lot more nuance Yeah, so that's that's that's like the nutshell of where these people are from is the yeah point there.
00:30:42
Speaker
Gotcha. She's a surgeon. This movie was produced by Will Smith. Those are my first notes. I know! My first note was Will Smith? Apparently.
00:30:55
Speaker
um And we're kind of introduced to her family. um Every Friday, she goes to Planet China. Which I've heard that phrase elsewhere. So I think that most that's a pretty common thing that happens.
00:31:08
Speaker
Okay. Which is a, it seems to be a supper club in Queens I believe her grandparents run um for a bunch of Chinese American people to meet on Fridays. They have dinner and dancing.
00:31:26
Speaker
And it's every Friday and she's expected to go. Yeah, and the moms use it as an excellent time to pair up their kids. Which moms love to do all cultures. They love do that cultures.
00:31:41
Speaker
But in China is its own sport, really. Yeah. um so joan chen is playing i'm doing my best huailan uh is how i would pronounce that um but it's called ma exclusively yes um i didn't even know that she had a like name name um yeah yeah she says it like twice i think yeah yeah and um that She is widow. She's widowed. yeah um Her husband and Will ah is who is our main character.
00:32:17
Speaker
Michelle Krusiek. Krusiek. i I'm doing my best. Will. um Yeah. Will, her her dad ah died when she was a child. doesn't It's not really sure, but like she was young, but not like a baby, I think. Yeah. They definitely had a few years. yeah Yeah, but it wasn't like long enough for to have a relationship with this man and be real sad about it.
00:32:42
Speaker
Yeah. But um she lives with her parents, um Will's grandparents, who are Like, again, like, it seemed to run this supper club, seemed to be in charge. Yeah. Because her grandfather gives this big speech. Yeah, I figured it was either that they run the supper club or it was their anniversary.
00:33:01
Speaker
oh yeah. I mean, they didn't mention that. So my... Like, the way he was talking, it made me feel like it was, like, their anniversary. and I was like Yeah, it could have been. Yeah. So we don't know. Yeah, we don't know. We don't have time to get into the the nitty gritty of who runs the supper club in this movie. Yeah.
00:33:17
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. um So she is a resident surgeon, um which I would say puts her in her like middle to late 20s.
00:33:28
Speaker
We don't really get an exact date on how old she is. My guess is she's like 27 or 28 maybe. Yeah.
00:33:35
Speaker
And at the supper club, she dance she is dressed like a lesbian. ah um She doesn't wear girl clothes. She wears boy clothes. Yeah, yeah. um ah and But she's not super butch. No. She's fairly, she what we might call fooch. She's fairly feminine, but wears, like I don't think she wears a dress in the whole movie, right? Yeah.
00:33:59
Speaker
I mean, sure her it looks like she worked a long shift at the hospital, and all she had was the clothes she went to work in, which is ah like a long-sleeved t-shirt and jeans. Yeah.
00:34:09
Speaker
And that's exactly what it looks like every time she goes to the supper club is that she had to work and she is there in whatever clothes she had on. Yeah, exactly. yeah um And um she dances with her, I assume to be gay friends. Yeah, I assume that too. I have some notes.
00:34:26
Speaker
I feel- yeah Like, the best friend character could have been condensed for the sake of clarity um and character growth. He's not in it much. Yeah, he's really only got the one scene at the beginning, yeah. Right? He only has the one scene the beginning, so then what's the point of having that?
00:34:40
Speaker
why not make him Why not make him her neighbor? and like or like but i think they wanted i think they wanted her to have like ah like a chinese friend and a yeah A non-Chinese friend. Yeah, because they wanted her especially to have a black person for her mom to um talk about soy sauce.
00:35:01
Speaker
Yeah. Which, do you know the actor who plays her neighbor? No. It's Tatenbei from Garden State. Oh my god, really?
00:35:11
Speaker
It's Tatenbei! Yeah, it's Tatenbei! And that's Emma's Fun Facts, Emma's Fun Facts. ah Otto Asando. Yeah, to tell that.
00:35:24
Speaker
his name. Yeah, yeah. Garden State, Saving Face, Hitch. Yeah. um We covered Hitch. ah Yeah, we did. Who was he in Hitch? In Hitch, he was Tannis.
00:35:40
Speaker
I don't know. Or Tenise. to To be fair, i only remember three, or no, four of the people in that movie. I mean, it's been well over a year. Yeah.
00:35:54
Speaker
Yeah. So, I don't know.
00:35:58
Speaker
um Yes. So, ah yeah. So, we find out that she's gay. um She sees a beautiful woman, um Vivian, and they kind of, like, lock eyes across the room. It's very gay.
00:36:09
Speaker
Yeah. It's gorgeous. And her friend is like, oh, that's my cousin. You like her? And she's like, no, I don't like her. And he's like, oh, you definitely like her. Yeah. Yeah. um And yeah, so she is this ah gay woman who's under a lot of pressure from her family to get married, find a husband, find a Chinese husband to like, that's kind of a, it's a cultural expectation.
00:36:35
Speaker
Yeah. um In a lot of countries. Yeah. But in the, for the scope of this, in this Taiwanese American community, that is run by an iron fist by her piece of shit. Grandfather.
00:36:49
Speaker
Yeah. Her grandpa sucks, but her grandma's so wonderful, but her grandpa sucks. Fucking hate that guy. Um, and it's like, but, But I mean, again, I am not from a Chinese ah family, but I do kind of like my grandparents, my dad's parents were kind of similar to to this. Like my grandmother just did whatever he said.
00:37:13
Speaker
Like it was there was absolutely no question in their relationship who was in charge and who was not. um And when he died and she lived 15 years longer, like she didn't know how to do a lot of stuff. Yeah.
00:37:28
Speaker
Because he had done everything their whole life. And they'd been together since the 40s. Yeah. um So it is it is definitely real. That that that kind of relationship existed in in a lot of different cultures from that timeline. So it's not just yeah it's not just a specifically Chinese thing. um it's a patriarchy thing.
00:37:52
Speaker
um Although we should talk about the concept of face, which is kind of what this movie is about. Okay. when he mentions a couple of times like how much face you've lost me and this is like honor like the specific kind of like um of of honor that he has in this community um he is a very respected man he's a professor at a university of some kind we don't really get how much like he's really good at tai chi He is really, he's so good at Tai Chi that he scares the basketball players away from the court.
00:38:26
Speaker
But he's also just like so graceful as he's doing it. I was like, i was thinking, I was like, oh, as I watched him do Tai Chi, every time we watched him do Tai Chi, I was like, should I start doing Tai Chi so that I can be this nimble when I'm in my 80s?
00:38:39
Speaker
Should I do Tai Chi? Should I do Tai Chi? His name is Jin Wong. um And he does not, he is a, um he does not have a link on his name in Wikipedia. So.
00:38:50
Speaker
There you ah um so i don't know what to do the um that's the end of the research he and that is a very and and it's and again out not just in in chinese culture but in uh in a lot of cultures that kind of you know you've brought shame upon the family kind of thing is yeah is very big for uh a lot of a lot of conservative uh cultures And, you know, being gay is so outlandish to not even be considered yeah um in this ah society.
00:39:22
Speaker
But what happens is that her mom gets pregnant. Yeah, her mom, which, like, that was a turn that I was like, whoa, what? Yeah. and Her mom is 48. Yeah.
00:39:36
Speaker
yeah So, which, you know, would would say, you know, she was probably 19 or 20 when she had um her yeah kid. Yeah.
00:39:44
Speaker
Which seems young. um Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, like, you find out later that she got married to Will's dad um because her dad expected her to. And because her dad wanted it.
00:39:57
Speaker
Oh. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Very much so. That marriage was not a marriage of love. It was a marriage of, you know... It's about a step away from ah from an arranged marriage. Yeah. That a lot of other, like... um ah indian pakistani uh cultures uh do a lot um which i'm sure we'll cover a movie that deals with that at some point totally but um it does seem that the that they have a little bit more choice uh than something like that but it is um it very it is very much a deal made by your parents uh in this uh in this film or at least it was a generation ago yeah
00:40:35
Speaker
So, because she's pregnant, her her father, the grandfather, kicks her out of their house. And kicks her out of Queens. Yeah. You can't come back to Flushing. Like, you're banished from Flushing.
00:40:49
Speaker
Get these pictures of her out of my house. He's, like, throwing baby pictures of his daughter into his granddaughter's suitcase. And, like, it's just like it's just a cultural thing that we're never going to understand, Emma. Like, I...
00:41:03
Speaker
could not in a million years ah um fathom ah speaking to that man again after he did something like that. Right? But by the end, he does have some growth.
00:41:17
Speaker
A little bit, yeah. A little bit. Not enough to where I would feel confident having a relationship with that man, but yeah he does have some growth um by the end of the movie. So he's got that going for him.
00:41:30
Speaker
Yeah. And part of it is just like... There's it it yeah it's a cultural expectation that you have a close relationship with your parents. And you know that is not something that is that is true of modern white
Cultural Divide and Moral Conflicts
00:41:44
Speaker
people. yeah at least At least for for you know the the you know people that ah that I know, really. yeah like and I know at least a few different people who don't have contact with their parents at all.
00:41:59
Speaker
Yeah. um And Unfortunately, i know I know someone who is... um There's someone that I know who is struggling with something something like this right now. And she's she's quite... She's very young.
00:42:14
Speaker
um She is very... um you know She's Gen Z, for sure. And like her parents, like kind of who I'll say have been horrible to her um throughout her life and do not deserve respect in...
00:42:30
Speaker
in ah in a sense that we would consider someone deserving of respect. yeah But because of her cultural upbringing, um she has all of these like things that she just considers something she can't do because it would upset her parents.
00:42:47
Speaker
um And the the weight of these expectations are very, very real. And it's hard for me to to entertain that um as someone who...
00:42:59
Speaker
considers myself, you know, modern and like enlightened, I want to, to understand that people's cultures are different than mine. And just because I think that, you know, something is, is true doesn't necessarily make that true for everyone, but like, I don't know.
00:43:18
Speaker
It's hard for me to have, to have an understanding deep enough for things that I consider to be morally wrong. Yeah. Yeah. But anyways, back to this movie.
00:43:30
Speaker
That is all kind of relevant to this movie. Kind kind of, yes. The main thing this movie is about is the the cultural divide yeah between this this woman and her family and how her mother finds herself in a situation that puts her on the same side of that divide with her daughter.
00:43:48
Speaker
Yeah, but like she's not mentally there. Like she's not mentally on that divide, like on that side. No, no, no. She's been put on that on that divide because of of of something that happened to her because of of um I mean, sort of her actions, but mostly like something that can just happen.
00:44:06
Speaker
Yeah, exactly. You know, there's there's still that 99% chance if you're on birth control. And I don't know. we don't I don't know if she was on birth control. You know, we don't know.
00:44:17
Speaker
Yeah. She probably wasn't on birth control. but um But, yeah. and So that we have Will Amina.
00:44:28
Speaker
we have Will. And we've got Vivian. And they make eye contact at each other. And they're like, oh, my God, hi. Oh, my God, hi. And then we see Will back at work because she's living her best life.
Balancing Job and Romance
00:44:41
Speaker
And she is... um just in between surgeries so she's got to get something to eat so she goes down to the vending machine and worst vending machine in the world worst vending machine in the world this hospital does not seem nice y'all it was also 2004 so like i feel like all the vending machines were filled with garbage
00:45:05
Speaker
Yeah, but it's also like in the shadowy corner, like the bottom of a stairwell. Like, I mean, I'm sure it's just like the function of a low budget movie, you know, like. Yeah. But like also when she's like looking for change, it looks like she's like fixing a wedgie. She's not looking for change, right? Like her hands in her underwear. Well, she had no, she has scrubs on over her pants.
00:45:28
Speaker
Oh, I thought you just considering a wedgie. Which is like, I don't think you're supposed to do surgery with scrubs on over your clothes. That's not thats ah sanitary. No, but yeah, you can see she's got a shirt on underneath her scrubs in that scene. So that she was fishing in the pockets of her pants under her scrubs.
00:45:46
Speaker
Oh, but then she hears someone behind her and lo and behold, it's Vivian. Vivian. And she's what are you doing here? She's like, why are you, what? Why?
00:46:00
Speaker
um And she's like, would you like some um so money for the vending machine? Wait, is this your meal? And she goes, no, no, wait, why are you here?
00:46:10
Speaker
And she's like, oh, seeing my dad. Yeah. And, and so of course we all assume her dad is sick. Um, and she's like, she says, oh, he's dead to the world.
00:46:22
Speaker
So my immediate reaction is, oh, this man is in a coma. Yeah. That is also what I thought, yes. Yeah. um yeah We find out later that he is her boss. I believe he's the chief of surgery at hospital. He's the chief of surgery. And he very much believes in Will. The first sentence out of his mouth is someone talking to him being like, do you think she's going to be like you ahead of surgery by the time she's 50?
00:46:49
Speaker
fifty And he goes, 48. Yeah, which is how old her mom is. Yeah. um so um she is vivian's giving her shit about eating candy uh from the lighting machine and she's like you should get this one it's got peanuts in it and she goes sometimes your body knows what you really want said um it's fine wow
00:47:21
Speaker
she oh yeah go ahead oh I was gonna say I forgot one of my favorite lines um was from the Planet China when because like how we first meet all of the people at Planet China that are all her mom's quote unquote friends ah are ah through them talking about someone who was there whose husband left her for someone who's like in their 20s and one of the women it's Vivian's it's Vivian's dad ah
00:47:54
Speaker
so i didn't put that so vivian's parents got divorced when they were when she was a kid and like again so she's a little ostracized from like her parents are like persona non grata at the planet china also because they got divorced and people like treat her like shit yeah because her parents are divorced yeah um But ah no, yeah, it's her her dad is dating someone 20 years younger her. Also, age gaps are a big no-no for um these horrible women.
00:48:24
Speaker
Yep, big no-no. Don't do it. um But like they're they're talking about it and the women are talking about how scandalous it is and how, you know, terrible. And then it cuts to like the their husbands.
00:48:36
Speaker
And one of the guys goes, oh man, my back hurts just thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, lol. i'm a So her mom, because her mom is pregnant and she won't tell anybody who the father is and will share no information about it or whatever, but her mom is 48 years old and pregnant, gets kicked out of her parents' house where she's lived for the last, you know, 25 years or so or whenever her husband died.
Family Tensions and Vivian's Career
00:49:05
Speaker
She moves in with her daughter, which my note was I would kill myself. Yeah, no that was, I mean, i love you, mom. You're a stable listener of this podcast. And I have lived with you several times. And I i do enjoy living with you short period. Living with her youre in a house is different than live your mom moving into your one-bedroom apartment with you.
00:49:27
Speaker
Yeah, that that would be not fun for anybody. Yeah, yeah. Especially when her mom starts, like, making over her apartment, and then it just looks like her grandparents' house.
00:49:39
Speaker
Uh-huh, very much, yeah, yeah. It's great. Um, ah the, um, yeah, and she and her grandfather told her mom, like, don't move back in here, don't, you can't come back until you have a husband to match the child.
00:49:51
Speaker
Yeah. Which is, um, cruel. Yeah. Um, So Vivian is a ballet dancer, but she's on sabbatical right now, and she's doing, like, kooky modern dance in and she invites Will to go see her. Now, they don't show any of the dance, which is a shame. Yeah. but My guess is because they hired an actor who couldn't dance.
00:50:13
Speaker
Yeah. But they do show her outside of the um theater with all of her friends, and she is wearing the world's skinniest, longest scarf. Ha ha That's one of my notes is skinny scarf.
00:50:28
Speaker
It's 2004. Yeah. yeah But it's so fucking long. She looks like Keira Knightley in Love Actually. Yeah, exactly. Do you know that she was wearing that hat because she had a zit? Did you know? I did know that.
00:50:41
Speaker
i did. yeah Yeah. We do the Love Actually episode. It's going to be a fun fact. Oh, well, we can skip the Love Actually episode. um
00:50:51
Speaker
She talks. So then they go to a thrift store. I'm not sure where they're at. Something like that. I think it's a thrift store. They're just sort of bouncing around. Yeah. Yeah.
00:51:03
Speaker
And she they have they're having like a ah ah ah walk around and talk date, like rom-com, Yeah, little bit. um And she's telling her, like, you know, my dad is your boss at the hospital. Yeah. Surprise.
00:51:15
Speaker
He is the same thing with face, right? He's like, yeah he's very proud of me for doing ballet. But, like, he's not interested in seeing me do modern dance. And he would never come to this. That's And he considers himself very supportable very supportive of me. But, like, that's not, yeah. that's The other thing that I do, that's not respectable. The ballet is the respectable thing. And he doesn't care about me unless I'm, you know.
00:51:40
Speaker
Being the image of the daughter that he uses as an object to like further his own self image, which is what face is. Right. Yeah, exactly.
00:51:52
Speaker
And this movie is a little bit kinder to these men than I am capable of being.
00:51:58
Speaker
And that's a key fact. She tells her that, you know, do you remember me um when she, you know 20 years ago when you know i was seven and you were eight and the kids were making fun of me for my um my parents being divorced and you like told them off and i kissed you and you ran away
00:52:20
Speaker
so cute um ah and then the mother goes the the ma goes to a video store and rents a porno Yep, yep. She runs a porno. And then she sits and she watches the porno.
00:52:31
Speaker
Because, like, she's really big on watching, like, Chinese soap operas. And then um at one point, like, she's just, like, so alone. She's so lonely in this apartment by herself because all of her friends have cut her off.
00:52:44
Speaker
Her parents have cut her off. she not have job? don't know. don't. I feel like, realistically, she would have to have a job. Mm-hmm.
00:52:56
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But, you know... We don't know. and mude We don't got time to get into that in this movie. It's beyond the scope of this film, yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, um like, she's so lonely, and she, like, keeps trying to, you know...
00:53:11
Speaker
spend time with her daughter because that's the only person that she can spend time with. But she's always working or going out on these dates with Vivian because this relationship relationship is so new. She's too busy being a lesbian. Being a lesbian doctor in the city.
00:53:24
Speaker
i And um so she rents a porno. She watches it. It's very funny. Who's your Asian daddy is what he says. yeah Who's your Asian daddy? who's arranged and I don't care for that.
00:53:39
Speaker
um And ah she goes back to Vivian's apartment with her and she's like, let me, I do this outreach with kids. Basically, I teach them how to stage fall.
00:53:50
Speaker
Yeah.
00:53:53
Speaker
Which she does ah correctly. And then she's like, okay, I'll teach you. But she does not teach her. just says, just fall. I'm like, that is not how you stage fall. absolutely is not how you stage fall. You specifically need to learn how to stage fall.
00:54:08
Speaker
And then Will just falls. Well, no, it's actually adorable because like she's like, go ahead, just let go. And she doesn't do any anything. She doesn't move. and she She gets closer and closer to her and she's just let go. And when she gets within kissing distance of her, she just collapses, which is like, same girl. Oh my God.
00:54:26
Speaker
So cute. It cuts to a wide shot where she gets up again and she also comes in to kiss her and she falls again.
00:54:35
Speaker
and then they have sex. Yeah. ah Yeah. Which again, like we love in this podcast, like have sex. Do it. But they have sex and ah her mom calls in the middle of them starting to have sex, which I think is Oh, this is, that's a different sex scene Oh, that's a later scene.
00:54:52
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is the first time they have sex. This is when. She misses the Mahjong party because her mom is like, I'm having all the ladies over for Mahjong. And then she gets there after it's over. And she's like, oh, you missed Mahjong. And she finds out later that none of the women went.
00:55:06
Speaker
That no one went. Yeah. No one showed up to her Mahjong party. Because they were all too, quote unquote, busy. Yeah, because they were bitches. They all suck. So yeah, ah one question that I had is because everybody knows that her mom is pregnant. yeah um And she even, like, Will says, like, there's ah over a billion Chinese people and two degrees of separation. Like, everybody in the community knows. So like, how does everybody not know that she's a lesbian? Because she's not really closeted, except to her family.
00:55:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think that a lot of that, well, a lot of that's explained in her little chat with her neighbor. In that, like, her mom knows she's just in denial about it.
00:55:47
Speaker
Well, right. But I'm just saying, like, she's been on dates before. Like, she's she's she's had relationships with women. Like, how does how does all of the Chinese community not know that she's a lesbian? I think that they choose not to.
00:56:01
Speaker
Maybe. Maybe it's just one of those. Because they like her mom. But I don't know. I feel like that's not that's not the reality that we're shown in the movie, you know? like Yeah. I feel like it's just maybe it's just one of those things where it's like it's you know they they see her out with some woman and they just assume they're friends because that's how because they wouldn't even think they wouldn't wouldn't even think about it and yeah exactly I suppose um yes so they start to have a relationship um ah and they she meets her in the park with hot dogs it's very all the time it's so cute it's their thing
00:56:41
Speaker
um and uh oh yeah no she sleeps with her while her mom is watching the porno that's what it is it's cutting between those things yeah yeah yeah um ah it's and then it's vivian's birthday and this is when the sex scene happens that we're talking about but she can't get out of surgery and she misses the party and she doesn't get to meet any of
Relationship Strains and Cultural Denial
00:56:58
Speaker
vivian's friends and she has a nurse or somebody send her flowers for her birthday Yeah. And she gets, finally that she gets there, the party's over, everyone's gone, and Vivian's like, yeah, you and my dad sent the same flowers. And, like, it's the exact same bouquet i the nurse from the hospital got for both, and it's, like, so, so depressing. Right.
00:57:22
Speaker
She's just like her dad, which, you don't want to be that. Nope. Because her dad's mean. Yeah. um And she, ah you know, she won't kiss her in public. She's got like, this is, this is a coming out rom-com, we should say. Like, it's little... But it's not a little... Kind of a not, like she's out, but she's not out now.
00:57:46
Speaker
But like the main conflict in this movie, the reason the relationship hits a problem in act three is because she's uncomfortable with being gay. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's true.
00:57:57
Speaker
Um, and she, um, and then they, they sleep together and you find out that, you know, Vivian's parents know that she's gay and don't really seem to have a problem with it. Her mom in the voicemail is like, so did, did Will show up?
00:58:12
Speaker
Like, oh my God, is she there now? And they're like, you know, having sex. Right. And it's just like, it's so sweet. Cause she's like, you're, you told your mom about us. And she's just like, yeah, of course.
00:58:23
Speaker
Um, and it's just like, oh, my heart. Yeah. Yeah. And like, yeah, the thing is like, she doesn't come home that night and her mother doesn't say anything to her the next day. Yeah. um And that is when she tells, we find out, but when she tells her, her neighbor Jay that, you know, her mom basically knows like she walked in on her, but it's something that she just kind of chooses to ignore.
00:58:45
Speaker
but she As long as she doesn't like hear or see about it, then she doesn't know. Then she's. And that's why. Yeah. That's why she's trying to find her husband so bad. And she doubles down on that. Meanwhile, um her mom is going on dates.
00:58:57
Speaker
Yeah. um Very cute. Any Chinese very funny scene where she's at the hospital and all these people are like, oh, my landlord's Chinese. and yeah and and but And Will is like, how old is he? And she's like, I don't know. No, he's, i mean, I don't know. He's rich. She's like, okay, write down his name. Like she's yeah accepting anybody that's Chinese.
00:59:18
Speaker
Anybody. She's like, what about the guy who owns the deli? And she goes, he's Korean. Yeah.
00:59:26
Speaker
And then there's a Chinese patient. and She goes, oh, somebody's got a Chinese patient in room 406. And she goes, let me see his chart. And she goes, and his thyroid's a little higher than I'd like, but that's fine. Get his information.
00:59:41
Speaker
And it it has to be said that Ma looks absolutely drop-dead gorgeous on every single one of these dates. And all of these schmucks that she's out on dates with.
00:59:53
Speaker
They suck so bad. Yeah, these- so bad These terrible losers that she's going on these dates with. Yeah. She looks phenomenal. She won't say who the dad is, you know?
01:00:05
Speaker
She refuses to say what the dad is. um And Vivian is getting frustrated with Will, and she says, it's like we're having an affair. Yeah. We don't go out. We just hang out in my apartment and have sex, which, like... You gotta...
01:00:18
Speaker
So she has Vivian over her dinner with her mom and her mom, I think, picks up on it. This is actually before we find out that her mom knows. So, but so this is the first thing, like my note was like, Oh my God, does her mom, has her mom figured it out already?
01:00:33
Speaker
Yeah.
01:00:35
Speaker
But she does have a little bit more information for that. Um, and that is when she's like, I got to get this woman out of my house. Yeah. Um, Because it's ruining her relationship. It's ruining, you know, it's is suffocating her. Yeah.
01:00:52
Speaker
Yeah. And so she's like, Cho, the guy who, the guy who's in love with my mom, has been in love with her for years. Like, yeah he's very nice. He knows about the baby. Like, it's going be fine. You can marry Cho and we go back to grandma and grandpa's house.
01:01:09
Speaker
Yeah. He's very, very sweet. And he tries very hard. he's sweet and, but kind of ah a loser, you know, and she's just not into him, which is reasonable. Yeah, which is understandable. like But like, that's what she did, you know, 20 years ago. And that's what I think a lot of these women in this, in this culture end up doing is, yeah you know, you make, and especially in the, in the culture where like you make your whole life about your husband, like somebody that you don't even like, like yeah that's so fucking tragic, you know? Right? Yeah.
01:01:42
Speaker
ah But that that explains a lot as to why those women are so mean to their husbands. yeah Yeah. Because they don't like them. Because they don't like them. And they're like, stop eating that. That'll give you gas.
01:01:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um and then um ah And then her grandmother is in the hospital. Yeah. And her mother's not allowed to come to the hospital to see her mother in the hospital because her grandfather forbids it.
Vivian's Opportunity and Will's Realization
01:02:08
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Which is just like, Jesus fucking Christ, man. Which makes what happens later all the more heartbreaking. Of course. um And then ah Vivian's there. They're like, yeah what are you doing here? And Vivian's dad is the is the doctor talking about her grandmother her grandmother. And she's like, oh, I came to see you. And her dad does not buy that.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah. Her dad picks on it like that. Yeah. heard Well, she he knows that his daughter's Yeah. Yeah. yeah But like he, the chemistry between him is so palpable.
01:02:43
Speaker
He pulls Will into his office and he's like, so you're the reason that she's thinking about not going to Paris. Yeah, because should be said, we haven't mentioned Paris. So Vivian is up for a um a ah spot in the, as a principal, I want to say?
01:03:01
Speaker
I want to think so, yeah. she can She can't get a principal role in America, yeah. yeah But she she got it in Paris. Paris yeah at the Paris Opera Ballet yeah yeah she's up for it um it would be for i believe four years and it's a four-year contract and it's something that would like really further her career but she's not like super enthusiastic about it because she really loves expressive modern dance because you get to express yourself versus like ballet which is so like technical and it's not as emotionally um fulfilling
01:03:33
Speaker
So yeah she is, and especially creative. yeah and Yeah. And especially that things are happening with Will and she's just like, um, she kind of really wants Will to say that she should say, she really wants Will to ask her to stay. And she says, you know, I've started a lot of things, but like every time I talk about it, Will's like, yeah, this is really exciting. and It's, it's super cool. That's, that's super great.
01:03:54
Speaker
Because Will is stupid. Yeah. um I got so mad at Will so many times in this movie. I was just like, i Jesus fucking Christ, girl. Like, just... Classic rom-com protagonist. Jesus fucking Christ.
01:04:09
Speaker
Just tell her not to go. Tell you love her. That's what clueless lesbian. In the community, that's what we call a clueless lesbian. Yeah. yeah Yeah. I'm not a lesbian. Um...
01:04:22
Speaker
But you are in the LGBTQIA plus community. Yeah.
01:04:29
Speaker
You really, you really, yeah yeah you pulled that off really well. The number of letters. Thanks. and i yeah i've found that I really enjoy saying the full thing versus just LGBTQ plus.
01:04:40
Speaker
um Because it's so fun. Yeah. The LGBTQIA community. Plus. Plus. um the yes so um ah she her mother decides she's gonna marry cho and will is like oh that takes care of that no problems here everything everything is great yes oh but her her boss sort of gives her an ultimatum
01:05:12
Speaker
Oh, right, right, right, right. Yeah. she tells her, or Vivian's dad is like, don't don't do this. Like, so her, he's say the first well he says, he tells her a lie. He says, ah when I was, when she was six, I saw her dance for the first time.
01:05:27
Speaker
And I've never missed her dance since. And we know- Which lie. a lie because he only goes to see her dance ballet because yeah he sucks. Because he sucks.
01:05:38
Speaker
And he refuses to acknowledge that modern dance exists. Kind of like how Will's mom refuses to acknowledge that Will's gay. Oh my God, the parallels! Yeah. Well, it's the same thing. It's like these these parents- consider their children extensions of themselves um or props for their own sense of of self-worth instead of as individual people uh with their own rights exactly yeah um So, yeah, but but Will, like, doesn't, like, she doesn't ask her to stay. um She lets the deadline go by, and then all of a sudden, like, time, some time has passed, and she's going to Paris and she's on the same day.
Family Bonding and Personal Freedom
01:06:19
Speaker
She's also been ghosting her, and also my favorite scene, I do have to say, my favorite scene is when she gets really into the soap, opera watching the Chinese soap operas with her mom. And you just get this montage of her um watching. And Jay.
01:06:33
Speaker
And then, and then it like pans out and Jay's there. And so like, they've all. And they're all crying and eating, eating Chinese food, watching in the Chinese show. It's so, so she's like, is this the good man? And she's like, no, that's the evil man. Is that the good man? goes, no, that's his brother. because Who's the good, who's, who's that loser they're beating up? And goes, that's the good man. Yeah.
01:06:57
Speaker
Um, then her grandma dies. Yeah. Yeah. And her grandfather, then her I mean, at that point, her mom is allowed to go to the hospital, which good for her.
01:07:09
Speaker
yeah um Now that her mom is dead. Yeah. But this is the moment that she sort of like succumbs that her mom succumbs to marrying Cho is like her dad, her dad is so such a mess and like crying. We don't like hear in news, like in, in text that the grandma's dead. It's all just and done non-verbally, which I thought was really beautiful and really heartbreaking. Yeah.
01:07:31
Speaker
um You just see them running up, running in. You hear like her her mom's heels and Will's flats, which is a whole like joke between the two of them um throughout the movie that her mom always wears heels.
01:07:43
Speaker
And um you see them walking up to ah ah Ma's dad and he's just sobbing in the corner. And you just and then that immediately makes them both like fall apart.
01:07:56
Speaker
And so then Ma gets up to help up her dad and Cho is there. And yeah they just make eye contact and Cho takes the other arm and Cho and Ma take the grandfather back home.
01:08:09
Speaker
And so that's the moment that she's just sort of like resigned to, going to do this. I'm going to get married, move back in with my dad or whatever. And, you know, do what's expected because my mom is gone and I i have to fulfill this role.
01:08:26
Speaker
Yeah. Um, yeah. So, um, then a little, little time passes and, her mom was getting married on the same day that, um,
01:08:37
Speaker
Vivian is going to Paris because of course she is. Yep. Of course she is. That's what happens a rom-com. Exactly. We should also mention big ah big you and Little U at some point. ah So Big u is like a ah a friend of her grandfather's and a he does like he's big into like Chinese medicine and he prepares all these herbs and stuff. like He knows her mom is pregnant before she does.
01:09:01
Speaker
He sends his son, Little U, who works for MTA. Yeah. yeah little packages of herbs to give to um to give to Will because he works at the at the station where her apartment is.
01:09:16
Speaker
Yes. So he's always giving her a little package of herbs. Like, give these to your mom. They're good for more morning sickness or whatever, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Exactly. And then on the day of the wedding, he's like, there's a note in this one for your mom.
01:09:29
Speaker
This one's for the bride. This one's for the bride, yeah. And she, it tears in her bag. So it's open and she sees that there's a letter. And she's not going to her mom's wedding because she's not invited because she told her mom she's gay.
01:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. Kind of a big thing we left out. Yeah. She's I love you and I'm gay. And her mom's like, how could you say those two things at the same time? Like those things are. So her mom's not. I'm a good mother and my daughter's not gay. And she's like, okay.
01:09:57
Speaker
Yep. Yep. Um, whatever, mom. Um, yeah.
01:10:03
Speaker
And um she reads the letter and the letter is like 29 years ago, you married a man you didn't love for your father's honor and now you're going to do it again. yeah And i know the age difference is like a problem, but and you know, don't marry him. Yeah.
01:10:19
Speaker
be with me. And she's like, oh my God, old you is the father of my mom's baby. Yes. And so she runs and stops the wedding. her grandfather nearly has a heart attack. And she's like, don't marry him. You don't love him. You love him. And old you is like, like what? eight He's like, no, it's not me.
01:10:40
Speaker
He's like, I didn't do anything. Don't look at me. I didn't do anything. And then young you is like, it's me. And he is so hot. Did you clock this from the letter? I did. The first thing I thought was, it was like, oh my God, it's little you.
01:10:54
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, for sure. For sure. I was like, me not and and um they're not going to give this beautiful woman, this old man. This 80 year old man. Yeah. Exactly. They're going to give her the super hot MTA young guy.
01:11:07
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. i a and and And she does. She leaves. It's it's just like The Graduate. They get onto a bus and they're sitting in the back seat of this bus, which we talked about, the yeah scene from the poster.
01:11:22
Speaker
And she's like, oh, this will be great. Like, um I can move back in with you. And she's like, no, you cannot. She's like, sorry, but no, you can't. yeah No, that's not happening.
01:11:34
Speaker
um And then her mom sort of takes... takes it in and then she goes, you know, that Vivian seems really nice. She goes, well, she's leaving for Paris. And then she's like, stop the bus.
01:11:46
Speaker
And then they get into a cab and they go to LaGuardia. Yeah. And he stops Vivian in the airplane. It's the airport scene, you know? Yeah. It's the airport scene. She runs the airport.
01:11:58
Speaker
Yeah. We should mention, we should mention she does cause chaos at the attorney's wedding because when she says this, She's like, um she she says like, you don't love him, you love him. And then all of the couples start arguing immediately. And they're like, I didn't want to marry you in the first place or something. like I would want a divorce.
01:12:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Like she's going to, this is going to like a seismic shift in the community of this of this smaller, you know, um Flushing Queens community because this happened.
01:12:26
Speaker
Exactly. So she stops Vivian in the at the airport, like right before the gate. And she's, she's like, you know, you can't, you can't handle this. Like, tell me to stay. Like, kiss me right here in front of everyone. Yeah. And she still fucking can't do it. She still fucking can't do it. And I was so mad.
01:12:43
Speaker
i was like, come on. Because hadn't this. And I was like, are we really going to do this? Like, is this how the movie is going to end? Because like, I don't know. This is like a fucking searchlight picture. Yeah. Like, it might not. Might not have happened. I don't know. Beautiful.
Moving On and New Beginnings
01:12:58
Speaker
this Beautiful 2004 LaGuardia airport. Like, just. It could be JFK. I don't know. I just said LaGuardia. I think it is LaGuardia. Because LaGuardia They took a cab from Flushing. Like, they would have to be LaGuardia, really. well I recognize the airport.
01:13:12
Speaker
So it's now. Yeah. The area that they're in is now sort of like, it's a um a hotel. Like, a 1960s, like, Pan Am-style hotel. It's the LaGuardia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. um But you still walk through it to get to the bus that takes you to the subway.
01:13:29
Speaker
ah That's so fascinating for everyone. Nice to live in Queens, by the way. Nice. I just did that commute a few weeks ago. yeah Um, but yeah, so, ah so yeah. And then she's just like heartbroken and she goes back and her mom's all excited for her now. And she's all like, so how'd it go? And she's just like, no, no.
01:13:54
Speaker
And so Vivian's off to Paris and, Will is back off to being a surgeon resident and her mom is going to live happily ever after with young you.
01:14:08
Speaker
And then we cut to three months later. and like oh it's a it's more of the movie more of which like it's not long like this movie is only like 96 minutes long yeah um what is it uh 91 91 minutes yeah yeah but it does have this kind of epilogue structure um there she's going back to planet china and she's like my mom insisted i come this week even though i don't go all the time and like she's like So your mom is like back with the biddies or whatever. And she's like, oh no, they all ask her for advice now. but Yeah. like
01:14:41
Speaker
She got this hot She got a hot young guy. And now yeah scott she's got some cachet again. Yeah. And she's super happy. Yeah. And she's still pregnant. They haven't had that. She hasn't had the baby yet. um And then she sees Vivian.
01:14:58
Speaker
And you see that. um her mom and vivian's mom set this up they give each other thumbs up it's very cute it's very cute because it's very much like what happened at the beginning of the movie um was that another woman was like trying to set up her son with will and and so the bald short guy yeah the bald short guy who's just an asshole because he works in stocks and traits and oh yeah yeah yeah um but like he it's it's the parallel but like her mom now is very accepting and and open and and wants and knows how much uh vivian means to will and how heartbroken it left her when you know it ended
01:15:39
Speaker
um And so they, she like turns to Vivian. She goes up to Vivian. They, this like beautiful, like slow walk across the room to her. And Vivian's like, you told me that she wasn't going to be here. And ah her mom was like, well, she she did usually doesn't come anymore. So I don't know. Crazy.
01:15:56
Speaker
i And so Will goes, dance with me. And Vivian goes, no. Pause. Ellipses. Pause. Pause. Because there's no music.
01:16:08
Speaker
And so then they start dancing to no music. And then the music kicks in and then they make out and everybody's dancing around them. And some people leave, but a lot of people stay. lot people Her mom is dancing with little you.
01:16:24
Speaker
Yeah. And um Vivian points out, she's like, it looks like a lot of people are leaving. And Will looks around and she goes, yeah, you know what? Fuck them. Fuck them.
01:16:36
Speaker
Yeah. Fuck them. uh like yeah absolutely and then we get another ellipses uh and then we then we do like a beautiful like fade out of the two of them making out on the dance floor like we get an aerial shot and then they credits start and then there's like some some some fun stuff mid credits like which makes me very happy that that was the moment the sort of like button i put it on that i was just like oh look everybody's getting along now her her grandfather is like reluctantly involved yeah he's like um whenever that baby is born i'm gonna be over every day because you two can't raise this child yeah yeah yeah yeah um and then her mother like turns to the the two of them and she goes well when are you gonna have a baby spit take end baby punchline spit take end love it i don't boom
01:17:32
Speaker
It was great. It was great. um Charlie's Corner ah is Charlie's Corner. Charlie's Corner. Charlie's Corner. i Governor. He enjoyed the film.
01:17:45
Speaker
Oh my God. But we did have like a moment where he was trying to argue like a bunch of stuff about, because I was like, i was telling him how frustrated I was with Will. And he goes, why? She was acting because of this, this, and this. And I was like, now you're just trying to argue with me just to argue.
01:18:00
Speaker
Oh my god. He's so analytical. Right? was like, well, of course she was ignoring her and ghosting her because her boss told her she was going to lose her job. And I was like, that's not reasonable, Charlie. Exactly.
01:18:13
Speaker
Right. And he was like, of course she didn't kiss her at the airport because she wasn't fully out and comfortable her sexuality yet. I mean, a well, he's one to talk about not kissing someone in public.
01:18:24
Speaker
Exactly, Charles. i'm a Anything else? I
Cultural Humor and Fashion Discussion
01:18:31
Speaker
want to say that her mother was racist about her black neighbor. She was. We said that he eats too much soy sauce. That's why he's black.
01:18:39
Speaker
That's why he's black. ah She also tried to give him paper plates. And she was like, you can't do that, mom. That's rude. Yeah. Yeah, you can't give him paper plates. Which i do believe is because, not because specifically he's black, but because he's not Chinese. Because he's not Chinese.
01:18:53
Speaker
And she was not expecting him to come over for dinner. Yeah, but then later when they have, um when Vivian is over there and she goes, do you do you have a boyfriend? Do you want to date ah Will's black neighbor? And she's like, no. Because what, you don't like black people? She goes, she doesn't like black people, Will.
01:19:11
Speaker
Yeah.
01:19:15
Speaker
There's a lot of very, like, again, this this movie is is so charming and light. Like, we talked a lot about, like, family drama and stuff and like cultural expectations and everything, but it's all so like light and kind of breezy throughout the movie. Like it doesn't, see it doesn't, it's not really like an upsetting watch or anything. It's still a rom-com. It just has these kind of like.
01:19:40
Speaker
It's just a different culture. It's it's a rom-com of a different culture that neither you nor i have grown up in. there's just a lot of pretense of, you know,
01:19:51
Speaker
acknowledging acknowledging a lot of things that like we don't fully understand and we'll never understand yeah for sure um but also it's not a bummer is what i'm trying to say i guess totally yeah it's a fun time hour and half synopsis we just gave yeah it's a fun time skinny scarves it is a fun it is a skinny scarves skinny scarves oxford shirts and jeans yeah Not a lot of fashion in this movie, honestly. I mean, like, her mom has some great dresses and stuff that she wears. Her mom's wedding dress?
01:20:24
Speaker
No, no. Yes. Oh, my
Upcoming Episode Preview
01:20:26
Speaker
God. it's beautiful. um She does say, and she has this yellow dress, and she goes, how about this? And she goes, Chinese people can't wear yellow? She's like, well, why did you buy it? And she goes, she goes it was on sale.
01:20:36
Speaker
yeah
01:20:39
Speaker
Totally, Wylan. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. I get that. Amazing. Any other thoughts, feelings, opinions? um I don't think so. I just had to fix my chair real quick.
01:20:51
Speaker
um No, I think that's good. um Emma, what are we watching next time? Next time, we're going a little goofy. A little bit goofy. We're going a little lighthearted.
01:21:02
Speaker
We're going Christina Milian, baby! That's right, guys. We're doing the Netflix original rom-com. You say Christina Milian like I know who that is. You don't know who Christina Milian is?
01:21:15
Speaker
No, I don't. Are you fucking kidding me? No, I mean, I've seen this movie. Like, you sent me this thing, and I'm like, yeah, I saw this movie, but I don't know who this is. She was a 2000s pop star. Okie doke.
01:21:28
Speaker
Christina Milian. Yes, she was a pop star. Yeah. 2001 debut single AM to PM, which became a high 140 single. She performed the song, call me beep. Oh, she sang the theme song to Kim possible. Okay.
01:21:42
Speaker
There we go. I got it. Christina million. dedo If you say so. It's also in my favorite, um, Hallmark Christmas movies that we will probably do called, um, snow globe.
01:21:53
Speaker
And it is a movie where they tried to pass off her and a bunch of white people as Italian. hello There's a lot of problems with the movie.
01:22:06
Speaker
she's um She's not. She's not Italian. No, no, no, no, no. no no She's Afro-Cuban. Yeah, she's Afro-Cuban. It's just the fact that they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's cast all these white people as Christina Milian's family and just say everybody here is Italian. Oh, I mean, that's happened many times, unfortunately. did that to J-Lo in The Wedding Planner.
01:22:27
Speaker
In The Wedding Planner, yes. That's what it is. was to think of it. There's a famous example of this. can't have Hispanic protagonist. She's Italian. She's Italian. heard jesus fucking christ uh yeah so we're gonna be doing ah falling in with two n's love falling in love like the night before christmas we're falling in love falling in in love so that'll be next time the go get take it to new zealand new zealand all australia
01:23:02
Speaker
Be prepared for the two of us doing terrible New Zealand impressions. Very bad accents. hu A lot of bad accents. Yeah. Hey, hey, hey. Mediocre accents. Mediocre accents from Katie. Bad for me.
01:23:15
Speaker
I can't do Australian. I can't do New Zealand. I can't. I can do Australian. New Zealand is is pretty hard. New Zealand is subtly different enough from Australian that it's pretty hard for me. I i can Australian. Zealand?
01:23:27
Speaker
New Zealand? New Zealand? Yeah. New Zealand? Just keep saying New Zealand?
01:23:39
Speaker
All right. Tell the outro. What's outro? Thank
Conclusion and Social Media Shoutout
01:23:43
Speaker
you for listening to Go Get Your Girl. If you like us, tell your friends, and please rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:23:50
Speaker
It helps out a lot, and we would really appreciate it. Thanks to Andrew Milliken and Nick Spoboda for theme music, and Elena Henderson for our artwork. You can follow us on Instagram at GoGetYourGirlPod or email us at GoGetYourGirlPod at Gmail.
01:24:05
Speaker
You can follow me on social media at Emily M. Pizza. And me at Katie of the Lake. Until next time, we're just two girls standing in front of the internet asking it to love us.
01:24:19
Speaker
Good night. Good night.