Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
A Conversation with Shala Graham
232 Plays2 years ago
"I think that if we are aware. We'll save ourselves and our clients our audience a whole lot of heartache if we just know where our boundaries are."
In this episode, Lisa sits down with photographer and entrepreneur, Shala Graham. They'll talk about vision, branding & how boundaries help you find (and keep) the audiences you want to serve.
https://www.shalaphotography.com/
https://www.callingqualified.org/
The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry: https://johnmarkcomer.com/new
For more Be. Make. Do. follow now on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. https://tr.ee/Oi5UdgE702
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Be Make Do Podcast
00:00:10
Speaker
Hello, welcome to Be Make Do, a Soul Makers podcast where we talk about what it takes to pursue your calling as a culture maker with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom. I'm your host, Lisa Smith, and I'm here with my producer, Danny BH.
Exploring The Soul Maker's Three-Fold Way
00:00:25
Speaker
Hello. And it is our passion to encourage and inspire you to become who you were created to be, to make what you were created to make and to do what you were created to do.
00:00:38
Speaker
Now, over the course of our last few episodes, we've been giving an overview of the first two parts of The Soul Maker's three-fold way of call, becoming and making. And we're excited to keep sharing with you these inspiring and encouraging conversations with artists who embody this way of call.
Shala Graham: Artist and Entrepreneur
00:00:57
Speaker
And today we will be speaking with photographer and entrepreneur Shala Graham. Yes, yes. I have been waiting to have this conversation with Shala for years actually. She just has so much wisdom and experience as an artist entrepreneur which
00:01:14
Speaker
I think it's a pretty unique set of gifts, actually, to be so skilled in both of those areas. And to me, she just really embodies the principles involved in making what you were created to make. She has such a clear sense of her vision and values, and she's so great at articulating how she does that and how you can do that too. Yeah, yeah. All right, well, let's get started.
Empowering Women through Photography
00:01:50
Speaker
Thank you so much for being here today, Shala. I'm so excited to get to talk to you and to be able to share you with our audience. I'm sitting here with Shala Graham of Shala Graham Photography. She's a headshot and personal branding photographer who helps professional women ignite their confidence in front of the camera. She's also the founder of Calling Qualified Ministry, equipping women to live a life that courageously chases their unique calling
00:02:20
Speaker
and Creative Colony, a co-working space where she supports entrepreneurs in the DC area. And we met when you actually shot head shots for me several years ago. And I just found you as I was desperately searching for somebody that I would really enjoy working with. And then it was such a fabulous experience being in your studio. You're so, I can tell that it's much more than just shooting
00:02:47
Speaker
a photo for you. You really are trying to bring something out. So I just loved meeting you and we started talking and then we found out that we have all kinds of things in common and connection. So I've actually been wanting to have this conversation with you for like years, for a really long time. So thank you so much for being here today. Thank you for having me. Yeah.
00:03:10
Speaker
Well, I would love for you to just start off by telling us a little bit about you and about your headshot and branding business. Sure. Tell us about what you do there. When I'm working with people, I target women. That's who I market to because I really feel connected and I've always felt called to support women in some kind of way.
00:03:34
Speaker
And so when I'm working with women, most of them, they dread being in front of the camera and they usually kind of give me a preliminary, I just want to let you know, this is like my least favorite thing in the world. I just have to do this or they've never done it before or they're very awkward, all of the things, right? They want to like give me a warning about maybe it's because they think
00:04:00
Speaker
If I just reduce the expectation for having something great, I won't be disappointed or I won't be discouraged. And so when I'm working with women, I really want to say, okay, how do I help them see themselves the way that I think God sees them? How do I help them have this encounter with themselves?
00:04:21
Speaker
Right. To say, wow, I did that. And there's a recent photo shoot that I did with a woman. I had several that day. And as she was looking at the photos, because I now do kind of an in-person review of the photos and selection instead of sitting in the gallery later, she's looking at it and she's like, oh my God, that looks like me. That looks like how I always see myself. And then she started crying and she was welling up and I was like, OK, what's happening here?
00:04:51
Speaker
And she shared how she was making her way through a divorce after 20 years where she was abused. And this was this moment for her to be like, there's something in me that is great and wonderful. And so it's for those moments, not that I want that for any of the women that I work with, but it's for those moments, those women who are struggling with their identity in some way,
00:05:19
Speaker
Whether it's the world or interpersonal relationship, to be able to have a time that is focused on them, that they can begin to see themselves and say, you know what, I can do this. I can confidently chase the career, chase the new life, do the thing, and not even be brand new. I like to think of it as rediscovering or uncovering the thing that was already there.
00:05:46
Speaker
Because I feel like the greatness is in you because that's how God made you. But over time, we get layers of things that push it down and cover it. And so in my small amount of time that I get to work with women, I really want to see them, that confidence be ignited on a different level where they're thinking, wow, this was almost therapy. This was more than a photo shoot.
00:06:13
Speaker
Yeah, I definitely felt that, like being in the space with you, the way that you create that environment and work with me was very much like, I have been in places where it feels like, okay, you know, we've got to get this done in the time and like get it done and I hope you know what you're doing.
00:06:31
Speaker
You got to get out of my studio, but you you so much you're so gentle. It's almost like I felt that sense of being able to trust you that you were holding this whole experience and that you had my best interest at heart and I
00:06:46
Speaker
I think there's something so, it's so beautiful the way that you talk about what you do and I love it as an example of an artist at work in the world who is a person of faith. Like you don't bill your photography business as like, I'm a Christian headshot photographer, you know? And it's not that kind of like stamp, it's your opportunity to just pull
00:07:12
Speaker
pour out and truly create this, like, what would a photography studio be like if it were, you know, governed by Jesus? You know, like that, this is what it would be like. What an incredible thing to be able to do that within this. Because taking somebody's photograph is a very vulnerable, very intimate thing. And to have somebody see you in that way is really vulnerable. So to be able to create, I mean, I think these are some of the things that we don't necessarily think about.
00:07:41
Speaker
as artists that, you know, we know that it's vulnerable for us when we show our work, but creating these spaces for other people to be vulnerable, to be seen, or to see things they're not used to seeing, in your case about themselves, like that is a real, that's a sacred space to be walking in.
00:07:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I like that phrasing a sacred space, right? Because I want it to be honored in that way. And I want it to feel safe, right? And that's why I'm careful about the people who I work with, right? My makeup artist or my stylist.
00:08:18
Speaker
Because I want this I want this space to be safe. I want you to be encouraged. I don't want you to be stressed out I don't want you to be thinking about all of the things that could happen that are happening But to enter into this space and I try to be very intentional part craft, right? Because if someone is not comfortable, you're not gonna get a great photo out of them so part of it is like this is the work that I do and then part of it is
00:08:46
Speaker
How can I take an opportunity to affirm the thing that I am seeing in them? So I'm watching for when their eyes switch. There's like a bulb, a tinker, or sometimes it's a movement where you see them, they physically settle in.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I'm like, yes, I see you. And I'm very intentional about my words because I want them to be like, oh, yes. Yes, I do see you, ma'am. Yes, you are killing it. And that's how I just want them to...
00:09:23
Speaker
to feel and see something that either they don't see or no one takes the time to say it. And sometimes we just need to hear it, that we are amazing and we're doing a great job and we have a spark. And I think that's a precious
00:09:47
Speaker
work of Jesus thing, right? To see someone affirm them, recognize them out of the crowd. Yeah. That's a real gift. Yeah. Well, tell me, I want to, a big part of what we're talking about with Soul Makers is calling.
Identity and Natural Gifting
00:10:04
Speaker
and understanding calling on a deeper level. And we talk about how frequently the conversation around calling goes to, what do you do? And that must be your calling. That's the extent of it. But in reality, the biblical call is much more expansive than that. It has a lot more to do with who you are and the shaping of that identity
00:10:30
Speaker
And also, I think it has a lot to do with your natural gifting and talents and the way you see the world, what God has kind of put in you, and our responsibilities to develop those things, and then how that plays out, what you quote unquote do.
00:10:47
Speaker
may change over the course of a career. You may be doing five things at the same time. Because I think a lot of times people get stuck with, my circumstances don't allow me to do that thing I'm called to do. Instead of being able to see, okay, how can I live out my call within the circumstances that I have or work towards circumstances, knowing that this is a long journey.
00:11:11
Speaker
So I'm curious about how you think about call for yourself and also how you talk about calling with with the women that you're engaging in calling qualified Yes, I I think and this is something that I've wrestled with right? Because like many people I think about well, what do you do? What am I supposed to do? And then I was like, um
00:11:33
Speaker
For someone who is multi-faceted, serial entrepreneur, I was like, OK, so you feel a little bipolar here, or schizophrenic, right? And I was like, this sounds crazy. In my head, this sounds crazy to other people. How do all of these things fit? And so when I was kind of wrestling through my own makeup
00:12:02
Speaker
I came up with the phrase courageously chasing the call, the call to Jesus. And really, to your point, our calling is to
00:12:14
Speaker
be conformed into the image of Jesus, baseline. That is what we're here and what we're doing. And if we can get as many people who look and function like Jesus in the world, how would the world change? And how do we get Jesus into the bakeries and into the schools and into the marketplaces? That would be a really transformed world.
00:12:39
Speaker
And so I like to think of this courageously chasing the call and it's kind of what keeps me from feeling like I'm just crazy.
00:12:49
Speaker
I am maturing in this season. I'm about to turn 41 next week. And so I'm like, oh, happy birthday. Thank you. I'm more self-aware, right? Yeah. Yeah. I think it was very freeing when I took some time and really dig into how I'm wired to be like, oh, so you're not crazy.
00:13:11
Speaker
Like, this is a thing, right? This is an intentional thing, right? That put this in you on purpose because he needs you in this type of role. And so to be able to see that and be like, okay, I'm allowed to do multiple things. I'm in a season where I'm like, okay, I just want to do like two things right now, not four or five.
00:13:35
Speaker
because I'm tired and I think I need time and space to hear God clearly, and when I am doing too many things, I can't.
00:13:46
Speaker
I'm too distracted. And I need a little wilderness time to just hear the voice of God. And it's not going to be doing nothing. But I can do less. Just not 20 things. If I can just do photography and calling qualified and then go to school, I feel like that's a max capacity in this season. And that's enough. Let me pay my mortgage, Jesus.
00:14:15
Speaker
And then let me also like encourage and inspire women to do the thing. So yeah, so I think it's just free. Yeah, to be able to maintain. Yeah, and I don't want to be, I don't want life to,
00:14:36
Speaker
always being a hurry. One of my colleagues recommended the book, The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry, which was really good. I was like, okay, I'm not gonna stand in the longest line at the checkout and I'm not gonna drive the speed limit, but I will take your other advice on how to slow down and making sure that I'm implementing Sabbath rest more regularly.
00:15:00
Speaker
and just slowing down because he was like, you can't go at breakneck speed all week long and then hit Sabbath and fully unplug. You need an on-ramp and an off-ramp. It's forced me to just slow life down a little bit. I'm like, how can I really focus on working Tuesday through Thursday and then Monday and Friday? Friday is like my play hooky day.
00:15:30
Speaker
Maybe I'll work maybe I won't work Monday is like waking my brain back up Yeah, but it had to be an intentional like if I know that I'm gonna be Unplugging come Friday night. I need to make sure that I am at a space where I can
00:15:46
Speaker
and not feel guilty, not feel bad, not feel overwhelmed, that things are undone. Because maybe I'm just trying to do a little bit less and reduce some of the expectations because I understand that I have a very strong, like, critical voice.
00:16:03
Speaker
that says I gotta do and I gotta be perfect. And I think even some of that as an artist, working with other artists over the years, I've had to learn to be okay with good enough, right? Because when it comes down to like a commercial creative business, I'm like,
00:16:22
Speaker
We have a deliverable. You are wasting billable hours hemming and hawing. It's fine. Send it to the client. Done. So how do you apply that? I mean, that's a great example of like in the commercial world, like there's just time and good enough, sometimes has to be good enough. How do you carry that over into your other creative projects or like
00:16:47
Speaker
just what you were saying, being able to tell yourself, OK, I'm going to take this time off or I'm going to limit myself in this way. Yeah, I think I think in photography, there's a.
00:17:01
Speaker
I don't have to do, one, I send my work to a retoucher to do the editing. I don't have to have my hand on that. And I just hire people who are better than me. So that when it comes back, I'm like, wow, how did you do that? Man, that skin tone is so great. That's fabulous. And also realizing that I see things or she sees things that
00:17:25
Speaker
regular person doesn't see, right? And they wouldn't notice the difference, right? It's like my husband, he would very into music, has a great ear, can sing. I don't have those things. So he would be slaving away, mixing, mastering something. And then he'd put headphones on me and like, listen to this. And then he'd be like, okay, and now listen to this. And I'm like, so they sound exactly the same thing.
00:17:52
Speaker
Sounds good. He would be so frustrated. And I realize that's the case for a lot of artists, right? When your ear or your eye or your voice is tuned to that theme, you see things that even other artists in other places would never notice.
00:18:10
Speaker
right? And so there's a freedom to say, you know what? Just let it go. It's going to be fine. So it just kind of lifts this pressure of performance, of it being about me, how will you receive? It's not about that. And that's when, if I'm starting to think that way, that's when I know a strong boot is about to come to my rear end.
00:18:32
Speaker
This is not sustainable. This is not sustainable. This is not about you. You have made the gospel about you and it's about Jesus and you need to go sit down somewhere. So that's how I kind of bring it into the things.
00:18:46
Speaker
Well, I really, so you're talking about setting these limits. You're talking about rest and all of these different kinds of things. And I think probably the idea of, I think that you probably have a very clear understanding of your vision and your values. And so I want to get to this idea of, it was a phrase you used many years ago when I met you about a values-based brand. And it really, it turns in my mind a lot because
00:19:17
Speaker
There's a lot of, you know, we were talking about circumstances can feel like it prevents you from living out your calling the way that you think you want to. You can have so many opportunities and not know which ones to take or, you know, as you're trying to build an audience and work with people trying to understand where do I give and where do I hold the line?
00:19:44
Speaker
Talk to me more about this idea of a values-based brand and developing a clarity around vision. Yeah. Yeah. And I think really when we talk about a brand, a brand is really a reputation, right? And your reputation is being built, whether you do that intentionally or not. And oftentimes brands will try to
00:20:11
Speaker
Build that reputation or manage that reputation and then think, oh, I should probably have some values and slap some things on there. Instead of saying, what do we value? What is core? What points us true north? What are the things that we want to celebrate as a company, award people for as a company?
00:20:33
Speaker
And so when we start there, then as we were deciding what projects to take on, what things to do not do,
00:20:45
Speaker
It's going back to the value. So with my design firm, the company values were excellence, honesty, and compassion. And so I remember my designer, Christy, she got a call from one of our regular clients. They had an emergency, of course, that they need something right away.
00:21:05
Speaker
And so she talked to me about it and she was like, okay, so I'm trying to have compassion for their situation, right? And I wanna make sure that I can actually deliver the excellence that we wanna hold ourselves to.
Authenticity and Growth in Branding
00:21:26
Speaker
But I also wanna be honest about my capacity. Can I do this? Is this reasonable?
00:21:34
Speaker
Also, is your lack of organization really my problem? And she didn't necessarily say the company values at each piece, but I could see how well it was ingrained.
00:21:51
Speaker
in the thought process. This is what we value. We do care about our clients. We do want to do excellent work, but we value being honest. We never want to be the company who's like, oh, I can do that. And really, you're going to go find someone who can do that because you can't do it. I'd rather just say, we don't have capacity to do that, or we don't have anyone on our team who can do that.
00:22:14
Speaker
And if we need to bring someone in, I'm going to tell you up front that that's what we need to do. Because I don't like the behind the scenes kind of shady business, fake it till you make it. It's just not my jam. And so I think it's important when you
00:22:31
Speaker
For me, it was just this beautiful... She was struggling with this decision, but I was super excited because I was like, she gets it. She gets her values. This is a tangible, real thing that can be implemented. And so even now with photography, I'm like, I need it to feel authentic and I need it to be about growth and I need it to
00:22:52
Speaker
to be fun, right? These are the things that I am valuing as a photographer. I want you to look like your authentic self, and I'm going to show up as my authentic self in these shoots. I'm doing this work because I'm interested in your growth, the growth individually, your growth in your career or in your business, and the work that we are doing here is for growth. And then it should be fun, right? It should not feel like going to the dentist.
00:23:20
Speaker
the shit you might be dreading it but I want you to walk away being like wow that was actually fun yeah yes yeah every time someone says that I'm like I am on brand this makes sense right um so I just think it's important
00:23:37
Speaker
to have those values and that way I can say, if I do this photo shoot, is this really authentic to me? Is it authentic to them? Is this really helping me grow, them grow? Is this just painful? Sometimes when I've done the painful thing, I'm like, dummy, why did you do that? This was not fun. This was not enjoyable. I should have said no.
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, that gets it. Like, I literally have had this conversation with somebody about, well, there's two conversations, so I'll throw them both at you and you can respond however you want. But one is kind of concerns or questions around how Christians in the arts should or shouldn't market themselves and whether or not, you know, the
00:24:32
Speaker
Look at me, look at that aspect of marketing, I think is what they're talking about. And the second is,
00:24:42
Speaker
The conflict comes when somebody feels like they're in a position where they have to work with a client who has expectations or needs that are outside of my values or what I want to be doing, whether it's creatively or spiritually or morally or any of those kinds of things. But it occurs to me after hearing you talk that I think you could really
00:25:05
Speaker
head off a lot of that stuff by starting here, starting with the value.
00:25:12
Speaker
Does that make sense? How do you think about that? Absolutely. Yeah. And it's something that I encountered early as an entrepreneur in my design firm. I was 23 when I had started that company. And so you're just getting random requests. And every now and then I would get the request. And the guy who called me was like, yeah, so I want this sexy woman in a thong with the money hand. And I was like, sir.
00:25:42
Speaker
So what I will not be using my gifts and talents for is this, right? And that was just like a very, kind of like an extreme end. Like most Christians would be like, yes and no, we're not going to do the shake them up, you know, objectifying women flyer, right? Not doing that, right? Show me your thong you get in free, like legit, like that was a thing.
00:26:04
Speaker
We're not doing that. But I think that if we are aware, we'll save ourselves and our clients, our audience, a whole lot of heartache if we just know where our boundaries are. And that's just a whole other conversation, right? What are our boundaries? And I have not been great at having boundaries in different areas of life, right?
00:26:26
Speaker
And so when I look at like, okay, so what is safe? What is wise? What is good? What is my responsibility? What's your responsibility? And how do I create a boundary around myself, right? Because it's not to put around you, it's around myself, right? These are the things that I will and will not do as an artist, as a person, as a Christ follower.
Marketing with Authenticity
00:26:49
Speaker
And I think that to the other question about the kind of the look at me, like the marketing thing, I think sometimes we can get in our head a little bit about that because everybody markets.
00:27:05
Speaker
right? The health care professional has to market. The gym fitness trainer has to market. The teacher has to market. Everyone has to market on some level. That's your resume marketing. That is you are selling yourself, right? And those who can sell themselves better, that sounds so terrible.
00:27:28
Speaker
Those who can sell themselves better are going to thrive more, right? And some of that is not even like a prosperity gospel thing whatsoever. I am keenly aware that Jesus might want me broke serving him somewhere. And so I keep myself from leaning into like
00:27:47
Speaker
a luxurious life and expectations because I'm like, Jesus might take that from me. I don't want to be like, no, Jesus, I won't do it because I want my luxury. So that's a boundary I put around myself because I know the temptation there. But this is just like basic, basic thriving, right? Basic awareness that deck on it. I was created amazing
00:28:12
Speaker
Right. God didn't make me and be like, uh, I mean, she'll do. Right. I don't think that that's the way that God looked at me, looked at you when he created us. I think he was fired up and be like, yeah, this one right here. Amazing. Top notch work.
00:28:28
Speaker
Yeah. And if we saw ourselves that way, then maybe we would carry ourselves differently and we wouldn't feel as icky in some cases. And I think we all know when we've gotten too icky, right? And we know that it really is an arrogance that no one can stand, right?
00:28:49
Speaker
But in general, like even with this podcast, you're going to have to market this podcast if you want people to actually listen to it. Because otherwise, I mean, this was a great conversation, Lisa. And I would have done this without microphones on, right? Right. But you have, this is just a part of life. You have to let people know. Yeah. You have to let people know. And we do not want to be, you know, starving artists, right?
00:29:11
Speaker
Yeah. And it's the difference, like everything that you're saying, it makes it so crystal clear too, because we're celebrating who God created us to be. We're owning the gifts that we've been given, and we're trying to give that away, and make a living in the process, but give those away. But it's the difference between
00:29:31
Speaker
sharing an authentic self who you really are as opposed to Selling a self that you think somebody's gonna want to buy right and that that seems to be where where the trouble comes because I because I would imagine You don't it's not like I mean in the beginning in the early days you like you're saying you take whatever you've got and then you're like Oh, okay. Oops that that is gonna be a boundary but at this point
00:29:56
Speaker
You probably wouldn't have a client approaching you. I mean, I know that's not what you do now, but even so, you wouldn't have a client approaching to do that because you have identified so clearly in your website, in your social media, in how you carry yourself and convey what you do that people who are looking for that
00:30:20
Speaker
are coming to you and people who are looking for something else, it doesn't become like, no, that doesn't fit my values. I don't think I would want to do that. They probably would never even approach you because you're highlighting the things that you are about.
00:30:38
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it is a very strong filter. Yeah. And I, I want, I want my, I think of my website or my materials as like a whole employee, right? Like you got to do the work of a full time person, try to attract the right clients.
00:30:56
Speaker
to distract the raw clients. So people can say, yes, this is for me. I can see, I want to connect. And I love it when someone will call me or email me and they'll be like, I want to work with you. I know that you are the right photographer for me. So let's do this.
00:31:16
Speaker
Yeah. Right. And that way I'm like, yes, okay. Yeah. Something is landing, something is connecting. And usually when I hear that, I'm like, okay, it even gives me little hints at the kind of fear or anxiety or whatever that they might be coming into the studio with.
00:31:37
Speaker
Yeah. Well, that's the other side of it. And this kind of goes to the marketing is being able to actually deliver what you've put out there, which you do. I mean, that I remember too, like looking at your website and I'm like, Oh gosh, that would be amazing. That's really what happens. That would be amazing. I don't know, but we'll see. And you did, you do deliver that experience, which then it's like,
00:32:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I noticed like there's something about her. That's what you know, we kind of started having more conversations. There's something going on there. I really, really like this person and feel like she actually cares about me and the people that are here and and it shows up in the photograph.
00:32:18
Speaker
Right. And that's the thing about values branding. Like if you can't deliver on what you said, then you're going to have a bad reputation, right? Again, if your brand is reputation, like you're not going to be able to deliver on the promise and that sucks for
00:32:36
Speaker
Everybody right right if you're not delivering on what you promised Yeah, and what you said that you were going to do and so I just try to be mindful Yeah, I think I feel like you're you're laying out the recipe for how do you build?
00:32:51
Speaker
a relationship with the audience that you want to have. You're very clear on who you are, what those values are, where your boundaries are, what you have to offer, what you want to see happen in that.
Building Client Relationships
00:33:06
Speaker
And then you're so attuned to making it this incredible experience for
00:33:13
Speaker
the people, the client that you're working with and listening to them and going that extra mile. It really is a relationship that you're building. Yeah, absolutely. Then you're talking about the people who've invested in you. That's one of the principles is building empowering relationships that go all the way. There's the being mentored, mentoring others, but also that group of peers that
00:33:41
Speaker
You know, it is really, I know a lot of people really feel alone in general, and then artists tend to feel, can feel very isolated because a lot of our work can be alone as well, but also this intersection of art and faith and being with people that get you. How, is that something that you have consciously kind of built in your life or? You just seem like a relationship person. You seem like someone who has.
00:34:10
Speaker
I do have really great relationships. And it's so funny. I don't know if you've done a Clifton StrengthsFinder, but there's not a single relationship building strength in my top 10. And I was like, interesting. But I, most of my things are influencing.
00:34:28
Speaker
And even that is still a very apostolic connection, where there are fewer people who lead with influencing compared to executing or relationship building or strategy.
00:34:44
Speaker
But it's in my back pocket, though. It's in my back pocket. And I do have strong relationships with like-minded people who I can connect with. And that's why I got to put stuff on Do Not Disturb, because my friends in their chat group, they're going every day. Every day they're going, and it's not uncommon for me to pick up my phone and be like, oh, you missed 100 messages.
00:35:07
Speaker
Like, let me scroll. Let me see what they were talking about. Is this relevant? Do I need to respond to this? But I love having strong relationships in every space that I'm in, right? People that I'm connecting with who are really pouring into me and I into them. And I think that's what helped me
00:35:29
Speaker
in my season where I was on staff as a pastor, because I did not approach the pastorate the way that I see a lot of pastors do, especially lead pastors, those who might be more senior leadership.
00:35:48
Speaker
And what I noticed is they're not as vulnerable with their struggles and who they are because they feel like, I gotta set the example for what chasing after Jesus and doing it right looks like. And I think it creates isolation where they don't feel like
00:36:13
Speaker
it's safe to tell the people in their own church, which it should be, I'm not doing well, or I'm struggling today, right? And they have to wait until they get with other fellow leaders who understand it more, and then maybe there they can be vulnerable, but they don't have time to get with them.
00:36:34
Speaker
Yeah on a regular basis, right? So In my little in my youth ministry in small groups, I was like look y'all i'm crazy Okay Stuff has hit the fan. It's falling apart, but we gonna love the lord together. How are you struggling? This is how i'm struggling right and I try to be vulnerable because I learn as an entrepreneur Um where there is a lot of imposter syndrome. There is a lot of um
00:37:03
Speaker
competition or like I got to puff myself up to show myself to be super successful. I realized that when I am vulnerable, especially as someone who might be seen as a leader or more influential in the community,
00:37:19
Speaker
When i'm vulnerable, it gives other people permission to also be vulnerable So when my design firm was struggling and i'm driving for uber because I can't pay myself and I gotta cut my employees back Like when I would share that with people There would be this huge sigh of relief. Yeah, like in their whole body and they're like So you too? Wow, and then they'd not they're not going to be as hard on themselves as they were and I was like, oh this is
00:37:48
Speaker
this is letting some captives free. It's letting me free, but it's letting some captives free. And so that's, I took the same approach when I went into ministry. I was like, look, guys, like,
00:38:00
Speaker
It's a hot mess over here sometimes, but I love Jesus and I'm going to keep fighting through. And so when we had our discipling times, which I was very passionate about, I'm like, we have to invest in one another. And a lot of people, a lot of pastors have never really been discipled or had those, that discipling community. So they don't even know what is missing or how to fix it because they've never seen it.
00:38:27
Speaker
And so I wanted to make sure that my leaders were being walked with and that they could peer into my life to see how I respond, to be held accountable for when I don't respond well. And you don't also need to be a pastor. You just got to be my sister, brother, and Christ to be like, Charlotte,
00:38:48
Speaker
that look funky. You should probably do something about that. And I just think that it's a different kind of way to live. And I think as artists, if we carry the same intentional vulnerability about our work, about our process, and that we let people in, instead of keeping everyone at bay, because we don't want the critique, these people aren't going to understand
00:39:14
Speaker
just let people in. And free yourself and have those relationships that are going to carry you in the hard seasons. And I think if we look at celebrities,
00:39:30
Speaker
popular artists, creative comedians who have passed tragically in many cases. I think they were missing, right? Some of the vulnerability. I think they were missing some of the community, the trusted relationships and just the ability to be like, ah, things are rough today. Yeah. Yeah. You know,
00:39:55
Speaker
I don't have to put up a pretense because mental health is so important. I have so many therapists as clients. I feel like God is just constantly like surround yourself with people who are going to care, who get it because it's important. Yeah. So wise. Well, I want to ask you kind of shifting gears a little bit. I want to ask you a big question as we kind of wrap up here.
00:40:24
Speaker
One of the things that I come across, and this is I think to do, it's not quite imposter syndrome, but sometimes I come across artists or people who are developing in that craft.
00:40:39
Speaker
who question whether or not it's really worthwhile for them to do what they do. Like, is it really valuable and meaningful? Because we do sometimes get the message that this is a nice little extra thing on your free time or if you've got money or whatever. But for those that are trying to kind of step into that place of understanding that what artists do and make does matter
00:41:07
Speaker
Do you ever think about that? Like, why does it matter that we make art? Especially when there are so many things going on in the world. So many things, you know, I could be doing X, Y, and Z with my time. I could be a minister instead of, or I could be a missionary. You know, what is the value of me doing that work? And do you ever, are there ever times when you've doubted the value of your work and how do you talk yourself?
00:41:35
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah, I think it was in 2020, right? In a pandemic, business is closed. All the businesses are closed. But this is coming into my fourth year in ministry and there was something in my head, which I think is a popular notion that in order for you to be a legit minister, right? Truly called, you got to be full time at somebody's church, right? So I thought that's what I needed to do.
00:42:05
Speaker
right, to really be a legit called bona fide minister. And it was hard. And so in the in the pandemic, when I was when business was closed, right, and I had all ministry had a ramp up because everything has to be moved online. So you got to spend more time doing all the things like we that was just a hard season for everybody. But in that season, I learned to live on a lot less.
00:42:34
Speaker
right financially because I didn't have my business going and I had my small ministry check. And I took a sabbatical. I'm a very big fan of sabbaticals. I try to take it three to four weeks off in the summer every year. And then many sabbaticals throughout the year. God helped me see like
00:42:55
Speaker
I make the same, this is so sad, but I made the same salary as a photographer working five to 10 hours a week as I did putting in 30 something hours for the church, right? And I was also grossly underpaid.
00:43:12
Speaker
But it was like, cause I was like, God, how do I have more time for ministry? How do I do? And it was kind of like, well, if you cut the church job, you would then free up 30 hours to perhaps work on calling qualified or, or do something else or just rest. Cause I started having like chest pains cause the stress, like it just felt like daggers in my chest. And I was like, what's wrong? Do I got COVID? Like, no, you have stress. You have stress and you sit down.
00:43:40
Speaker
And so that's when I switched right and it also was this like This realization that My my value and my my worth as a minister is not tied to whether or not I do anything full-time Right or even as a photographer like I liked I don't do anything full-time tag on it All mixed in and I try to keep it all within 40 hours
00:44:10
Speaker
Some weeks have more than the other on any given thing.
Photography as Ministry
00:44:15
Speaker
But what I really began to lean into was there's a good work that's happening as a photographer, right? There's a good work and there are people that I would never reach, that I would never connect with, who would never walk through the doors of a church, who might not ever hear me preach or be on my team. And those are the people who need to be reached.
00:44:36
Speaker
in different ways. And I don't even consider myself like a strong evangelist type, right? But I am a disciple, right? I am aware that the Great Commission is for all of us. And so it gives me an opportunity to walk out faith, to connect with people, to talk with people who I would just never have connected with and to see the same value and worth in it.
00:45:02
Speaker
And I can do both. I don't have to fit into anybody's box. I don't have to check anybody's box. I just have to do good with what God has put in my hands. If he gave me five, let me multiply the five. If he gave me 10, let me multiply the 10.
00:45:20
Speaker
What I don't want to do is take my one and bury it. And so how do I just do good with what I got? And if God made you an artist, then live in it, walk in it, and see who you can reach, see the audiences that you can reach. One of my mentors,
00:45:39
Speaker
we were talking and she's the one who told me that I was supposed to be a youth pastor, which was like bananas to me. So clearly you must be hearing Jesus really well. And I was talking about how I was doing a lot of traveling this year. And she was like, I just felt this in my spirit go. And I haven't felt this strongly about something since I told you that you're supposed to be a youth pastor. And so she was like, I know your studio is settled and that you're in that place.
00:46:10
Speaker
don't get too comfortable being settled." And she was like, you have no idea what God might do with you through your camera, right? You don't know if something that someone sees is going to have some sort of spiritual transformation because they saw it.
00:46:27
Speaker
through your camera. You have no idea where God might take you throughout the world. And I was like, I don't even make sense to me. How is that going to happen? Right? Cause I'm still thinking like, I got a mortgage to pay. How am I going to pay my mortgage? But what was interesting was I had just come back from Italy with my seminary and they had a grant. And so they hired me to photograph
00:46:50
Speaker
artwork prominently featuring women in the art, right? So we created this visual museum of women in Christianity of artwork across Italy and
00:47:03
Speaker
maybe a week or two later after this conversation with my mentor, I went to a symposium for the Visual Museum and the professors were like, yeah, we got to get more grant money because we need to go to Ethiopia and we need to go to this country and that country. It started to clip to me. I was like, oh,
00:47:23
Speaker
There are other ways, and these are seminary professors who are deeply engaged in the arts. And what theology we learn from the art that exists. And so I was like, oh, maybe she was on design. Maybe she still hears Jesus well. And so it just expanded my imagination of how I can be an artist, be a photographer, be whatever, and still
00:47:53
Speaker
deeply integrate my faith and my call to minister in different forms. And so that's what I would say to people. There's a deep ministry as an artist. And the visual language that just is not the same for all people when they read something.
00:48:17
Speaker
being able to engage it to experience to use all of your senses sometimes it just helps people click and there's a there's a people who need what you're creating um and that's the way that they're going to be able to engage with the holy spirit and so so do the thing yeah that's good
00:48:37
Speaker
Shayla, you are amazing.
Empowering Women and Creating Growth Spaces
00:48:39
Speaker
I'm just amazed by you, the scope of how you use your gifts and your generosity that just comes out in everything that you say and all the spaces that you create. I'm just, I'm really blessed by, I was watching your videos for the calling qualified and I just am really excited that
00:49:03
Speaker
that you're out there and that you're doing what you do and that your photography business, the headshot, I just think that that is such a gift to so many women to be in that space, to be able to be vulnerable and show who they are and be encouraged in that as they're taking that step to say, you know, because that really is like saying, I am a professional, I'm here, I'm ready.
00:49:29
Speaker
And it's just so beautiful that you do what you do. So thank you for doing it. Thanks. It's a different kind of equipping. Yeah. And I kept thinking, I was like, Jesus, I need more revenue, right? So I thought he was going to send me more donors for Calling Qualified. But then he just like ramped up and like doubled revenue in half the time as a photographer. And I was like,
00:49:53
Speaker
What are you saying, Jesus? Because this is what I thought you were going to do. I thought I'm supposed to be this minister who does this thing. And this is what you're going to fund because it's important. I got to do it. And I was like, oh, hmm. But you're doing something else. And maybe I shouldn't discount that creativity and that work that you have me doing because clearly your hand is on that.
00:50:19
Speaker
And so I need to shift how I think about who I am as a minister. Wow. That's incredible. Thank you so much for talking with us, Shayla. This has been great. I feel like I've learned so much. Thank you for having me. This was fun.
00:50:45
Speaker
I love everything she has to say about creating a values-based brand and setting boundaries up front. I have had that conversation with several artists who contract with others, but I think this just works across the board as an artist. I mean, I know as an actor, I had to think about this. Like, what kind of roles do I want to take and what kind of work do I want to do, but how do I be selective and still work and all that kind of stuff? But I just...
00:51:14
Speaker
She makes it so simple. I love the idea of knowing your values and your boundaries and creating your identity and your brand in such a way that you're setting the tone from the get go in your professional life. And you're setting yourself up to be in the environments you want to be in.
00:51:31
Speaker
Yeah. And she was so clear and concise about it. And you can really tell like she's been through it to get to that point where she is now. Like she went through the mistake. She went with not having boundaries. She, you know, was doing things she didn't want to do. And now she knows how to not do those things. Yeah. Yeah. One should be so lucky.
00:51:53
Speaker
Well, you just have to follow those steps, right? There you go. Exactly. Okay. Well, in our next episode, we're going to be taking an overview of the final piece of the threefold calling and focus on doing what you are created to do. So I hope that you're finding these episodes encouraging and helpful because we want to see artists get free and confident and grounded in your spiritual lives and in your artistic calling. And I just can't wait till next time.
00:52:21
Speaker
me either and hashtag free the artist yeah thanks for listening to be make do a soul makers podcast if you like to help support the podcast please share with others leave us a rating and review on spotify and apple podcast to catch all the latest you can follow us on instagram at soul makers podcast and on youtube at soul makers
00:52:47
Speaker
Head over to our show notes where you'll find links and resources from this episode, including Charlotte Graham's website and contact information. Thanks again, and we'll see you next time.