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Artist Archetypes: The Mystic
272 Plays1 month ago
Having a clear understanding of your motivations for creating allows you to stay focused and not get sidetracked by chasing success or fame.
In this episode of the Be. Make. Do. podcast, Lisa and Dan discuss The Mystic Archetype focusing on why artists create and how understanding motivations can lead to fulfilling careers and a strong sense of identity and purpose.
The Maker, The Mystic, The Soul Healer, The Imaginative Visionary, The Prophetic Critic or the Storyteller? What's your archetype? Take the quiz here!
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Transcript
Introduction
00:00:12
Speaker
Hello, welcome to the Be Make Do podcast, where we explore what it takes to be a culture maker with spiritual wholeness and creative freedom. I'm your host, Lisa Smith, and I'm here with Dan ABH. Hello,
Mystic Archetype in Art and Spirituality
00:00:25
Speaker
everyone. And we're excited to keep talking about motivations of the artist and the spiritual archetypes for artists. And today we're going to dive into the mystic.
00:00:37
Speaker
Well, before we get started on that, Lisa, one thing I noticed about this particular artist archetype is that it keeps coming up in all of our conversations. Like there was a lot of crossover with our previous episode with the maker ah where we were talking about the maker mystic sort of identity. um Let's talk, let's talk a little bit about that. Yeah. Yeah. I think these weirdos keep coming. Why why is the mystic all mystically lurking around? right I think it makes perfect sense because the people who are taking this quiz and our audience are for the most part Christians or people of faith, people who are thinking about their calling and their purpose and wanting to live out God's will in their life. So I think as a Christian, there's naturally, this is part of an undercurrent for all of us on some level, our spiritual life. And probably it's very common that
00:01:31
Speaker
But at least some level, what we do with our artistic endeavors is helping us to figure out who we are in the world. And our creative expression is part of how we connect with God. You know, we've embraced this language as a way that we can connect with God. So
Historical Mystic Artists
00:01:50
Speaker
it makes sense. And there's also This long history of connection between the mystic mystics and creativity and creative expression, even from the very, very early days of the Christian church, the desert fathers and mothers, the contemplative movements within the church have this, obviously, this mystical sensibility. And by that, I mean
00:02:19
Speaker
a desire to develop a deep personal connection with God spiritually, emotionally, mentally, physically, to be able to achieve some sort of what they would call union with God in that way. And so they're they're driven to experience God in their lives in some way.
00:02:40
Speaker
And ah very frequently that took on creative or artistic expression. So there's no surprise there that those two things kind of go hand in glove. And I think about people like um you know Teresa of Avila, she has this whole, she she describes the spiritual journey as going through these courtyards and these rooms in ah in a mansion.
00:03:04
Speaker
So she has this imaginative exploration of it. Or Ignatius of Loyola is is a prime example. He specifically uses imagination to invite himself and others into an experience of what it was like for Jesus at each stage going to the cross and the crucifixion to be able to identify and build a relationship. so it's um It's this sense of using creativity and imagination to experience God in a really tangible way. And then there's people like, um I just found her book on on the shelf. um ha I can't even say it.
00:03:45
Speaker
hosprit of gandersheim from the 900s, but she's one of the very first poets, one of the very first playwrights, certainly one of the very first um female playwrights. But again, this is somebody who's got this sensibility of mystic and artistry together. So there's a long history. I think that's why it's popping up is that it probably For me, I believe that this is one of the main reasons that we have the arts, that it is a language that we're given to make sense of the world and to connect
Defining 'Mystic' Beyond Magic
00:04:19
Speaker
with God. So artists who are employed you know in worship, leading or doing devotional art, um these are people who are most likely um at least partially driven by this mystical sense mystic sensibility, not mystical. I don't mean like woo-woo casting spells or something. like that Yeah, totally, totally different realm. No, mystic as in that desiring a connection with God.
00:04:48
Speaker
Well, I think it's really interesting because you know me, Lisa. I'm a results guy. I love watching numbers. Uh, so first of all, it's been great for, um, everyone that's been taking the quiz, right? Like, yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah. Hundreds and hundreds of people take the quiz
Mystic Archetype Quiz
00:05:03
Speaker
so far. If you have not taken the quiz, I'm going to plug it now. So go to soul makers.org backslash quiz, or just head to our show notes. So one thing I noticed was the ranking. Hmm. of so far the amount of people, this came in number three, third ranking as the highest artist archetype yeah from our quiz takers out there. It is interesting and I think it kind of goes to what we were just talking about, you know, storyteller is another one of the high, again, I think that connects to the evangelists. These are things that are very common, I think, within Christian life, so it absolutely it absolutely makes sense.
00:05:42
Speaker
Yeah, what's been fun too with all these people taking the quiz is to hear back that even just these five simple little questions help them ah name for themselves some things that are just below the surface or affirm some things. And I think that that's really powerful to understand that even within a niche of a niche of a niche like you're an artist who's a musician who likes to do this particular you're a singer you like to do this kind of music and you're a Christian you could still be very different and unique from all the people around you and that's okay you know to really be able to understand
00:06:19
Speaker
and validate what makes you tick, how God made you and how God put your gifts together and then be able to think about how do I use that um in the way that's most fulfilling and satisfying to me and in a way that is most glorifying to God. So yeah, it's really cool to see people feel like, okay, yeah, that is that that's affirming to me. That gives me some language to work with and confidence to go forward and create the creative life that that I really feel is right for me.
00:06:48
Speaker
Well, let's dig into the mistake. You ready? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.
Characterizing the Mystic
00:07:02
Speaker
Okay, so on to the mystic then. So I'm curious, Dan, I've been kind of talking a lot in these. I'm wondering, as you've kind of looked at this, how would you describe how would you describe the mystic? what's kind of What have you taken away from that description? Well, at first, I thought it was woo woo, but that is definitely not. From the description, the words that pop up is grounded.
00:07:23
Speaker
They seem very, I'm taking a guess at this one because I am so not the mystic, by the way. Okay. I am so not the mystic. Why aren't you the mystic? I just don't think like that. I will say it seems like a very wise, it seems very wise. ah I don't identify with this one, but I do know Now that we've been doing this i know if i met one i'd be like oh yeah they're a total mistake but i feel like there's crossover for sure as we discussed before that like like the maker mistake definitely like i feel like i know more maker mistakes and i know just straight mistakes.
00:07:57
Speaker
Well, I think, ah so this is interesting because when we're talking about these, sometimes we're talking about um sort of the mature form of what somebody who's a storyteller or a mystic or an imaginative visionary, what that would look like if we're we're working within our strengths and we're grounded and we have all of these things in a row. And then um we can also talk about it just as like reality every day.
Mystic's Self-Expression Challenges
00:08:26
Speaker
you know And again, um there are lots of different factors that go into who we are and what our personalities are and our maturity levels and our spiritual lives and that kind of stuff. But talking about motivation with the mystic, we're talking about self-expression, really. I think that, yeah. freedom too Yeah, it's about it's somebody who is who is motivated to create because the creative process, the act of making helps them process the world, process relationships, process what they believe about things, get stuff out.
00:09:07
Speaker
You know, that's just in your head. It helps them to express things. I actually think, I wonder actually if this lead singer of your band, if Rachel is a mystic actually. For sure. um Because i think I think some songwriters, visual artists, people who ah create because they have something inside of them that they need to get out and express because that's how they make sense of the world. That's kind of the key um key definition for the mystic archetype.
00:09:44
Speaker
Now, what we also then are talking about is, so so let's say um that self-expression and making sense of the world is how and why you're creating. Well, self-expression is something that has become that was very important, especially in the visual arts for a long time. you know I need to be free to express myself. And we still talk about that as artists and creatives. And that's great. and that's True, sure, that's good. But if if that's your primary motivation,
00:10:19
Speaker
then, and this kind of gets a little bit actually into the challenges, if self-expression is your primary focus, then I would argue that what self you are expressing matters deeply. So ah this is where the the need to really have a deep sense of spiritual grounding and community to pay attention to that that that your life's work is not just a continuous rehashing um of the hurts over and over and over again and self-indulgent. That's really easy for us to get into. Like it feels good to nurse those wounds again and again, which sometimes that's really helpful. Sometimes like you showing that part of yourself is really meaningful for for an audience or it's important to get that out.
00:11:14
Speaker
But I guess as a Christian, um I think it is worth really thinking about.
00:11:22
Speaker
Am I going somewhere? Am I growing? you know Am I developing and maturing spiritually? And then how is that showing up in my work as well? um Now, if your self-expression is just for you, like you really are just creating in your bedroom for yourself by yourself, that is absolutely fine. And there is nothing wrong with that. And that's great.
00:11:50
Speaker
But if you think that um your work should matter to other people, or you would like it to matter to other people, then it is important to consider your audience on some level, not that you're creating for them. But I think of it as having respect.
00:12:07
Speaker
for them? Like what is going to be meaningful and valuable about what you are sharing um and understanding that as we put things out there into the world that they do affect people. They can affect people in in great ways.
00:12:23
Speaker
And this so so that's where the spiritual grounding piece and the paying attention to and understanding the power of what we create. um But then on the other side is also the craftsmanship piece. So I think this is probably, for um um for some mystics, one of the bigger challenges. And I'm not talking about ah Rachel, by the way, is talking about all of this. She's just an example that I thought of right off the bat is something that was really expressive. Yeah, it was a great I think she she does you see her journey through her music, and that's part of what makes it powerful as well, is her audience kind of travels along with her because everybody's growing at the same time and experiencing new things together. and
00:13:09
Speaker
that's what um why people stay with bands you know for long periods of time because it's like you're expressing what I feel. You know you get it, you get me when we grow and move together.
Craftsmanship and Audience Engagement
00:13:23
Speaker
who and For those who don't know, I can do a shameless band plug now. ah Rachel, who Lisa is talking about, is the lead singer and main songwriter of my band,
00:13:35
Speaker
Firebomb based in the Washington DC area. Exactly. A very celebrated band with an excellent producer, right? but this i mean So we'll just continue on with that kind of as an example. You guys are well celebrated. You have earned a lot of recognition. You have a lot of people who really enjoy your music and support your music. You've won awards.
00:14:00
Speaker
there is a high attention to craftsmanship within that. So you guys could just play in somebody's garage or in the studio here forever and never play for other people, never release anything. It can be sloppy. It can just be your self-expression. And that's fine.
00:14:17
Speaker
But in order to engage an audience in a way, it's far more powerful, that message, that connection, that aha moment, that that sense of, oh my gosh, what this feels right to me. This this is what i i I need to turn on this music, because I need to feel these things right now, or I need to process this, or I need to feel good right now, or I need to feel bad, I need to cry right now, whatever it is.
00:14:41
Speaker
If it's not done well, it's not going to do it for me. You're not going to help me have that experience. So that's where the mystic, um that self-expression can turn into helping other people also connect with God. with When we talk about spirituality, we're talking about a piece of ourselves that everybody has.
00:15:06
Speaker
that has to do with how you believe the world operates and where goodness comes from and why your life matters and why it matters to connect to other people and you know what the world should be like. These are spiritual questions that everybody has.
00:15:29
Speaker
yeah As Christians, we we have the perspective that this comes from God, from Jesus. This is this is the path. So that's where that gets developed and um is rooted and resonated in for Christian. But everybody has this spiritual quest. So somebody who's a mystic is um has a mystic motivation as an artist.
00:15:56
Speaker
is at least in a large part doing what they do to explore the world around them, which is different in a sense than the maker. So the maker is um also obsessed with the thing and making the thing and the craft and the expression, but they are More interested in what the art can do right art itself is where the curiosity is and they do end up learning things on their way but the learning the things is not not the motivation for the creating right does that make sense it makes total sense.
Artist's Spiritual Journey
00:16:32
Speaker
Yeah. So here's something that's interesting that I was thinking about. My friend Kate, I call her my friend because I really like her, but she's somebody that I've admired for a long time. She's an artist. um I came across her work probably like 15 years ago, and she's somebody who I really, really thought was a prophetic critic. like that's I contacted her because I wanted to talk about things with a prophetic critic.
00:16:59
Speaker
And as we got into the conversation, um she she took the quiz and we talked and found out that she's actually a mystic, which is interesting because her work was um really focused towards like art as community engagement. So she did some incredible things in Detroit with like micro granting dinners and like turning an entire block of a neighborhood into a garden.
00:17:23
Speaker
where the entire neighborhood is working together to garden and feed their part of the city. and She does all kinds of really crazy um ah installation kinds of things. So I really felt like she was a prophetic critic because her work is engaged in those artists' social practice.
00:17:45
Speaker
prophetic spaces, like seeing a problem, engaging the community to find solutions together through art and community building. But when I ended up talking to her, I found out she's like moved to Greece and she's not doing that kind of art anymore. She's like leading people through experiences and um has these yoga retreats and things like that. And we were just talking about what is the through line there?
00:18:13
Speaker
and finding that her actually, since she was very young, the way that she sort of made decisions has been based on kind of just following but the lead of the Holy Spirit. So it it it's all this kind of developing this sense of discernment and listening for God's voice and then following God's voice into these different spaces because that's what makes her feel right. you know So she went to art school. She has an MFA. She is a very serious artist.
00:18:49
Speaker
um who's then used those gifts along with to to kind of um follow these pursuits of her mystic sensibility, this mystic motivation, that then has manifested itself in all kinds of different ways, which I think is fascinating. You know, it it's just not so simple as yeah um identifying what somebody does or somebody's personality and then thinking that you know you know everything about them like i i saw her as a prophetic critic but really digging deep to find out why do i do what i do so seeing when we dug deeper with her ah we found that the same things that she's doing now with leading yoga retreats and
00:19:38
Speaker
and travel experiences for people.
Art Environments and Connection
00:19:41
Speaker
She's doing the same thing she was doing in Detroit when she was building gardens for the community. She was trying, she was creating environments where people could have an experience that lifted them out of the everyday to connect them to something bigger. And for her, it was following what God was leading her to do in the given moment.
00:20:03
Speaker
And I think that she is an example of ah of somebody who is in this mature space. I think about Mandy Smith, who we've interviewed several times on the podcast as well. She's a writer, but every time you ask her about why she writes, she writes because she needs to make sense of something. And then she thinks, well, maybe this will help somebody else make sense of things.
00:20:24
Speaker
you know It's very different than starting from a place of, I want to help this person understand this, and I understand how to do it, so I'm going to tell you how. It's a very different thing. And again, I just want to say this one more time. like we are not This is not about psychoanalyzing anybody or you know helping people fix their problems or whatever. It's just simply to try to help us to think about why we create as a so starting point. why How did God wire you?
00:20:55
Speaker
And to believe that God did that on purpose. It's not, you you don't have to fight against your natural instincts and your natural motivations. God did that on purpose. So when you own that and you know, okay, I really, for me, making art is about figuring out the world, making sense of the world. It's how I feel closer to God. Then I have to be very conscious about what work I do for other people.
00:21:25
Speaker
If I am going to work in a church, this is going to be a tricky one. I have a mystic sensibility and I want to do that with the church, but you're working with a congregation that really isn't interested in going that deep or isn't interested in your journey, you know ah or it really isn't, then you just have to let that go.
00:21:45
Speaker
Or you have to say, okay, this work over here is not about my personal exploration. It's in service to something else. Or if you want to make money, you know, as a mystic, you may not really care very much about craft.
Balancing Expression and Craftsmanship
00:22:02
Speaker
You may be very happy with a table full of scraps of this and that and the other thing, and you create something, and it's like the you know it's like journaling. And that's great. But if you want to make money off of it, then you are going to need to take the time to take some art classes, to get better at photography, to understand how to do things in a way that is aesthetically um pleasing, correct, right, for whatever audience you're trying to to sell to and not get frustrated by those things. Be very clear about what you're doing in each of those spaces.
00:22:37
Speaker
And also, once again, and I'm finding myself saying this over and over again, of not feeling the pressure that you have to make money from your artistic endeavors. um i I think that there's something much, much bigger and much more everyday value because the arts are the spiritual language.
00:22:57
Speaker
So wherever it is that you feel led and motivated and kind of created to create, that's the place that you need to pour your energy into and trust that that is a space that God is going to fill in whatever way he intends.
00:23:14
Speaker
So yeah, that's the mystic. Okay,
Preview of Next Episode
00:23:17
Speaker
great. Well, on our next episode of the Be Make Do Podcast, we're going to talk with Jakari Sherman, who's a dancer and choreographer, an incredible person who has had a a unique journey from no dance experience to being the choreographer for Step Africa, and the founder of Ordered Steps, a nonprofit devoted to stepping as youth outreach and community development.
00:23:43
Speaker
He's a fascinating person with a wonderful conversation, and I really hope you'll join us. Awesome. Can't wait for that. All right. We'll see you next time.
00:23:53
Speaker
Thanks for listening to Be Make Do, a Soulmakers podcast. All links and resources are located in our show notes. Want to know your artist archetype? Take the quiz at soulmakers dot.org backslash quiz.