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What Does it Mean to be Strong? Navigating Grief & Redefining Strength After Loss - with Kami Wernimont
34 Plays20 hours ago
In observance of Pregnancy and Infant Loss Awareness Month, Leanna welcomes back Kami Wernimont, founder and president of Let the Light In, a nonprofit dedicated to supporting women and families through loss. Kami shares how her organization has grown and evolved over the past two years, offering one-on-one companion support, community events, and new initiatives for siblings and families. Together, Leanna and Kami explore what it truly means to take care of yourself in grief, how to find comfort in the uncomfortable, and why strength often looks more like gentleness, rest, and honesty than pushing through pain. This episode is a tender reminder that healing isn’t about moving on – it’s about learning to walk with grief – and that none of us have to walk it alone.
Full transcript available here.
Re-visit episode 17 to hear Kami’s story.
Re-visit episode 62 for last year’s update and to hear the lessons Kami shared about supporting others while maintaining her own self-care and quality time with her children.
If you’re moved to support the important work of Let the Light In, please donate here.
Connect with Kami and learn more about Let the Light In here.
Connect with Leanna here.
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:04
Speaker
Welcome to the Executive Coach for Moms podcast, where we support women who are attempting to find balance and joy while simultaneously leading people at work and at home.
00:00:15
Speaker
I'm your host, Leanna Lasky-McGrath, former tech exec turned full-time mom, recovering perfectionist and workaholic and certified executive coach.
Introduction to Kami Wernemont
00:00:27
Speaker
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the show. Today I'm sharing an amazing conversation I had with Kami Wernemont. This is the third October in a row that she has joined me on the podcast to honor pregnancy and infant loss awareness month.
00:00:45
Speaker
And Kami has an amazing story. If you want to hear her story about her two pregnancy losses Thank
00:00:56
Speaker
then you can go back and listen to episode seventeen last year she gave us an update on her experience and how it's been for her of running a nonprofit that's really mission oriented and also raising three
Navigating Grief and Self-Care
00:01:12
Speaker
children. And that is back in episode 67.
00:01:15
Speaker
sixty seven And today we are talking a lot more broadly about how we navigate grief and how we take care of ourselves and what does it mean to be strong and what are our own definitions of that and what is our society's definitions of that. And I just love this conversation and I know that you will too.
00:01:35
Speaker
Thank you for joining me. Enjoy.
00:01:43
Speaker
I am very excited to introduce today's guest, Cammie Wernemont. She is back. She's been here the last two years and she comes every October for a very special month. So let me tell you a little bit about her. Cammie Wernemont is the founder and president of a 501c3 nonprofit organization, Let the Light In,
00:02:04
Speaker
She is passionate about helping women navigate the winding journey to and through motherhood. Cammie is a certified life coach and miscarriage doula with a business marketing and event planning background.
00:02:15
Speaker
Cammie and her husband live in Ohio with our two boys and rainbow girl. Welcome, Cammie. Thanks for having me back. I love coming back here every time.
Discussing Tough Topics
00:02:24
Speaker
I love having you.
00:02:26
Speaker
Your episodes are some of the most popular on this podcast. And so maybe people are craving hearing more about this topic or maybe they just love hearing from you. I love having you on here. And and obviously my listeners love having you on here too. So I'm glad you're back.
00:02:39
Speaker
Thank you. Thank you all. It's a topic that's not talked about enough. So yeah thank you for giving it giving us a platform to to speak our truths and to talk about the really hard stuff.
00:02:50
Speaker
Yeah. What I appreciate about talking with you is that you have such just a beautiful way of being vulnerable and authentic and like going deep on tough topics. And it's like you're willing to go there and you just bring so much grace and it's just like beautiful how you talk about it. yeah.
00:03:13
Speaker
Thank you. My motto from the beginning of all of this has been find comfort in the uncomfortable because I feel like I am a walking trigger warning for most people. um And so I've had to sort of not tiptoe around it, not tiptoe around the ideas of talking about miscarriage and pregnancy loss and the depths of grief that go along with it. When people ask me what I do, i have to tell them, right?
00:03:39
Speaker
I try to ah approach it from that standpoint. Yeah, well, I remember you've called it in the past the the hard heart work.
Nonprofit Progress and Events
00:03:46
Speaker
Yeah. It is. It's tough stuff to talk about. So two years ago,
00:03:51
Speaker
Cammie was just launching her nonprofit, Let the Light In. and then last year, we heard an update from Cammie on how she is balancing leading a nonprofit with parenting three kids and all the things that come along with all of that.
00:04:07
Speaker
So i would love maybe, Cammie, if you could just kind of like give us an update on Let the Light In and how it's been going from a business perspective, how it's been going for you two years in. too I know. i know. It's incredible.
00:04:21
Speaker
So we have, from the very beginning, we hit the ground running really fast, which speaks to the need for more support for women and families experiencing loss.
00:04:32
Speaker
Last night, we hosted our third podcast. wave of light event. So we're going into our third year and we partnered with ohio health hospitals with their loss and healing services to put on an incredible event that hosted about 60 people in person. And we lit candles for the wave of light ceremony.
00:04:53
Speaker
for about 90 babies. As we were lighting those candles and placing the names next to each candle, I was walking by them and I knew so many of those baby stories.
00:05:05
Speaker
I had walked with their moms or I had talked to their grandmas. In some very few instances, I've talked to the dads. We have grown in an organization where I get to hold so many stories so be and bear witness to the beginning of the first loss with there's another loss or or the rainbow baby, if you will, pregnancy after loss and navigating that and greeting those babies into the world. And just, it's become ah from start till this full circle moment of,
00:05:42
Speaker
Here's the the whole process of it all. And we're not done yet by any means. and And the stories of these women and these babies are not done yet. So if you remember, we started out, um our number one program is our companion support.
00:05:57
Speaker
That's one-on-one support where we walk this journey alongside you and navigate it all from resources to perinatal mood and anxiety disorders to just really letting you come in and unload it all, right?
00:06:13
Speaker
We carry all of that inside of us and it just takes over if we if we don't get it out. And so where we like to say we're a safe place to land and we like to make it a softer landing if we can.
00:06:24
Speaker
So we have our companion support program and we do that in person and virtual. So you don't have to be in Ohio listeners. You can connect with us and we're happy to schedule that phone call with you. So we have our one-on-one companion support program. And then our other event that has grown is our bereaved Mother's Day brunch.
00:06:42
Speaker
And we've hosted two of them. The first year we ah We were taking some chairs away from the table so it didn't seem empty. We had ah ah about 40 to 50 women there to honor them for Brief Mother's Day. And this past May, we sold out.
00:06:58
Speaker
And then we added chairs to the tables and then we sold out again. and so we're looking for a bigger venue for that.
Future Goals for Let the Light In
00:07:04
Speaker
But what has been incredible in that is the community that is just, you walk in and your shoulders just fall. You have these, like, it's like, oh I can finally exhale because these people get me.
00:07:16
Speaker
I don't even know that woman sitting at two tables down, but I know she gets me. She knows exactly where my heart is. and so it's been incredible to bear witness to the community that is rising up and the resources, the other organizations and providers that are, where I always envision us sort of locking arms and rallying around them and And just being the heart of that community.
00:07:40
Speaker
My favorite event by far. Oh, it's so touching. It's so intentional. every Everything from the name cards to where people are sitting to the centerpieces to the speaker, it's all very intentional.
00:07:51
Speaker
So we are at this point sort of looking at, okay, what's next? What's next for Let the Light In? And so one we want to, of course, strengthen what we have and continue to broaden our reach.
00:08:05
Speaker
But our goal from the very beginning is to support the whole family, right? So that means the dads, siblings, and even grandparents, because there's not enough resources out there for any of them.
00:08:18
Speaker
And so in 2026, we are going to start, one of our volunteers is putting together care packages for siblings, for younger elementary age siblings to try to help parents. It's for the children, but also to help those parents sort of explain what's going on in a way that's appropriate for kids. And so we're working with a couple of therapists to help gather those resources for the parents and then some comfort items for the kids. And so we're starting to branch out and sort of see, okay, what's next? What pillars are next for us?
00:08:49
Speaker
But it's been a wild ride for sure. Yeah. How's it been for you? Um, breathtaking. i don't know if we mentioned this already or not, but October is pregnancy and infant loss awareness month. And it feels like it's the year of October. There's so much going on for the loss community, which is a good thing because there's a lot of options for people to participate should they want to.
00:09:11
Speaker
But I am finally at the end of some of our events for the month and sort of winding it down. And it's like, okay, need a minute to like, to just take all this in and sort of process what where we've been and where we're going and where we are right now and sort of just reflect on it. It's been beautiful and it's been heartbreaking and it's been overwhelming and it's been exciting. And it's really just a mix of all the emotions. And October has been full.
00:09:41
Speaker
The last two years have been full. So yeah I'm feeling really good about where we're headed. Well, that's wonderful. Well, I'm so yeah glad that there's someone like you to like do this work because it's hard. it's Like you said, it's hard, hard work.
00:09:55
Speaker
Obviously, it's much needed as you're seeing as your community is growing and growing. Probably so many women, maybe part of the reason why so many people listen to your episodes is because pregnancy and infant loss is impacts so many women and people. And so it's amazing that you've created this community to rally around them.
00:10:17
Speaker
I have to say I didn't do it alone. We have a great board of directors. There are nine of us now. We just added another person and she's actually starting our advisory committee, our advisory board.
00:10:28
Speaker
And so that is separate from the act from the board of directors who's more hands-on in decision-making, but the advisory board is the group of professionals that's sort of helping us feed the information feed us the information that we need.
00:10:41
Speaker
Help us make sure that we're on top of research that we you may not be seeing come across our desk. And what's in their offices? Like, what are they seeing out in the community? How can we help fill those needs? And so we're growing on that respect and we're bringing them in for the to have those hard conversations.
00:10:58
Speaker
And we've also had some incredible... volunteers that just come in and make our special events happen and our fundraising events and just the connection. And it's just, it is, it's linking arms and saying, okay, let's do this. And then the other loss organizations, especially the ones around central Ohio that we've gotten to know so well,
00:11:19
Speaker
and we've been able to collaborate and just and and work together and hold each other up and say, hey, I have your back. Like, what do you need? I'm here. Or, hey, do you know the answer to this question? Do you have a resource for this? And so it's really been that linking arms and leaning on one another and We couldn't do this alone at all.
Self-Care for High-Achieving Moms
00:11:39
Speaker
Yeah. Well, so we've been talking on the podcast this season about taking care of yourself. And i think for women, for moms, high achieving moms, this is so challenging because we have so many other people in our care. We have our kids, our families.
00:11:59
Speaker
a lot of us are also taking care of aging parents. We've got our teams at work, we've got, you know, our communities, whatever we're doing in the community. And so there are so many people in our care that it's hard for us to remember to take care of ourselves.
00:12:15
Speaker
And so we've been really focusing on that a lot. And I would love to hear from your perspective about through the loss process, through the grief process, how would you recommend that we take care of ourselves?
00:12:31
Speaker
I first want to say that I was worried you were going to ask me how I'm taking care of myself during this process because I was going to say no. good I have a list of things I need to do now that all these events are over.
00:12:42
Speaker
But really what I remind people of is as they're navigating grief and navigating loss is to find ways to nourish themselves. And I think of like wrapping yourself up in a blanket and just, it's, it's the warm mug of tea and it's the comfort party food. And, um, I'm always thinking in cozy terms, ah really just wrapping yourself up and being very delicate and gentle with yourself, making sure that you are moving in some capacity also, whether that's walking or you stretching or, you know, just remembering to unclench your jaw and bring your shoulders down.
00:13:20
Speaker
The other thing I always remind people of is to find your anchor. When things feel like they're spiraling out of control, what what is your anchor? What is going to bring you back down to earth and sort of ground your feet and sort of lock in to remind you of what is true, right?
00:13:36
Speaker
And just sort of bring you back to center. And that's different for everyone. Those are some of the The biggest things and making sure that they are talking to someone, whether that's us or a friend or having that strong support network, you have to to get it out of your system, if you will. Like you have to get that anger or that fear or that sadness. You have to have to cry. You have to write. You have to speak. You have to move.
00:14:00
Speaker
One of those things or a combination of those things. Because all of that trauma and experience lives in the body. And so the more we hold on to it and try to stuff it down, the 10 more tense we get and our shoulders get tight and we can't move. And it it really impacts the way that we just are physically, right?
00:14:20
Speaker
And so we have to find a release of the pressure valve and just sort of let
Personal Grief Journey and Therapeutic Outlets
00:14:25
Speaker
some of it out. Yeah. Are there other ways that you have found either in your own experience with grief and loss or through walking with others?
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah. So, I mean, talking is one way. For me, when I was navigating my grief, I did a lot of writing, whether I shared some of it or I didn't share some of it, but I did a lot of writing and that sort of helped me get the words out and then also sort of process my feelings, my emotions, what I'm going through and sort of see it on paper and kind of step back and be like, okay, this, this is what's going on here.
00:14:58
Speaker
So writing for me is very therapeutic and some people love to move and love to, you know, go to the gym and they feel like that's a good release for them or they go for a walk or they get back into their garden or they're doing work with the ground, you know, like whatever it is that sort of helps connect you and feels like home, like feels like you can relax, feels like you can just be and let things go.
00:15:26
Speaker
I'm not saying let the loss go. Like, that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is let the intensity sort of settle. Yeah. And I guess I'm thinking about like, what if someone doesn't know what that is for them?
00:15:40
Speaker
We talk about it. What's different about coming into our space versus going into counseling or therapy or something like that is we're We're more about the here and now of what you're experiencing. We're not trying to diagnose or fix or move you necessarily out of where you are, but more so process where you are and help you get to where you want to go by walking with you, not pulling you along.
00:16:07
Speaker
Both have their place, right? And some people do see us and counseling. Some people see us and some people see counseling. Like it's all the things, like you take what you need. But for that person that may not know, we can sort of sit here and and talk through it. And it's just getting me getting curious about you know What brings you back to center? What makes you feel grounded? What helps you stand a little taller?
00:16:33
Speaker
What is that creative thing that you do that brings you peace? One person makes quilts. She sews and makes quilts. And another um was harvesting her garden and says, you know when I'm out there harvesting you know the vegetables that we've grown, I feel like I'm doing something with my hands and I'm just...
00:16:52
Speaker
its It allows me to sort of let things settle a bit um or planting flowers or it's just finding your outlet. And I think sometimes too, in that moment where we're all, we're so caught up in in what is happening and the heaviness of the grief and just the whole experience that we sort of forget some of those things that the simple things that brought us such comfort before.
00:17:17
Speaker
Right. So it's like, okay, what brings you sort of this joy or where do you go when life is overwhelming? What do you typically do? What would you have done pre this?
00:17:29
Speaker
And can we work that back in you do we find something new? It's easy to feel everything is swirling around you and it's hard to catch on to something. um And it's also easy to feel like nothing matters anymore.
00:17:46
Speaker
So many times we talk about once loss happens, like we're here standing still and everything else is just still moving. Why is everything else still moving and moving so fast when I'm in slow motion and nothing matters anymore.
00:18:02
Speaker
you know, the dishes in the sink, they don't matter anymore. The exercise plan I was on, it doesn't matter anymore because I'm here and I no longer have what I thought I was going to have. So that's a very complex answer where there's no like number one thing you can do, but it's finding, it's finding what's right for you as an individual, knowing that this works for one person or this works. It's just the start of the conversation.
Approaching Grief with Compassion
00:18:28
Speaker
Yeah, well, I'm curious just in general, like how you think about grief because you said earlier about like feeling all the emotions this October.
00:18:39
Speaker
And i think that for so many people, grief is like one of those ones that it's like, oh, I do not want to have to feel that, right? Like it's like the worst emotion that,
00:18:53
Speaker
many of us you know might believe. But like you are like, no, I'm going to create a career where I am deep into it with grief every day of the week. And so I guess I'm curious how you think about it and what makes you lean into it rather than running away from it or shying away from it as I think so many people want to or try to.
00:19:20
Speaker
or a try to After we had our losses, I was trying to get past it, right? I didn't want to feel it. I didn't want to feel it. I wanted to move on. I wanted it to be done.
00:19:31
Speaker
I wanted to do a check off the list of all the things I was supposed to do to help myself heal and feel better. And it's like, okay, I did all the things. I checked the list. Is it my turn yet? And in ways that it showed up in my body by shoving that down and not actually taking the time to process it and work through it in a healthy way, i had experienced depression, anxiety, panic attacks.
00:19:55
Speaker
My body was just tense all the time. And I sort of fell apart before I could be put back together. And I think that's why now I'm such a huge champion of let's navigate this together because when I was experiencing loss, I didn't have a resource to go to and say, what am I feeling? None of this makes sense.
00:20:17
Speaker
It wasn't until i did my miscarriage doula certification and it talked about the postpartum period after loss. And it's like, oh, some of this anxiety and depression comes along with the territory, you know, not that it makes it better, but I could put it a name to it as to why I was experiencing it.
00:20:33
Speaker
and And that just wasn't there for me during that time. And so what i I tend to say is we are creating the resource we all wish we had. Being able to freely talk to somebody and have them...
00:20:47
Speaker
look at us and say, listen, there's a lot going on here and it's all valid. What you're feeling is valid and your grief is complex and it's made a little bit harder by that postpartum period and the way that your body is changing and then navigating pregnancy after loss. There's a lot going on there too.
00:21:10
Speaker
There's increased chances of perinatal mood and anxiety disorders with pregnancy after loss. There's just so many layers and it's not talked about, right?
00:21:22
Speaker
So i tend to lean in to the grief and comfort and the uncomfortable because I don't want anyone to go through this feeling like they're alone, that their feelings and their experience isn't valid anymore.
00:21:39
Speaker
um There's a constant comparison of, but this person had this loss at this time and my five week loss, you know, is very different. And maybe I shouldn't be grieving this much, but I'm heartbroken. And just trying to minimize themselves and their their grief.
00:21:53
Speaker
And then there's society who out there, the world is telling us to move on because we're so uncomfortable with it. We want to say anything we can to make people feel better and be like, okay, it's going be all right. you You can get pregnant again.
00:22:06
Speaker
We don't know that. You know, everybody's so quick to rush us. And i guess my overarching view on grief now, as opposed to before, is that it's something that is always a part of us.
00:22:18
Speaker
And in the very beginning, it's huge. There's this huge cloud over top of us. So there's like everything feels dark and everything is in slow motion. and i And you can't find your way through it, right?
00:22:31
Speaker
It's like wandering through the wilderness in the dark without a lantern. But as we sort of get closer to it and we start to look at it, our eyes start to focus and we get to know what's around us.
00:22:44
Speaker
We get to know how to comfort our grief, how to see it as a part of us as and and then really love on it and nurture it and comfort it.
00:22:56
Speaker
And going back to like nourishing yourself and that becomes part of you. i remember there's an image in the book, What's Your Grief? about the big cloud of of grief in the beginning. And then it sort of ebbs and flows and becomes part of you.
00:23:10
Speaker
can't remember if it's like the sweater that you're wearing or like a friend that you're holding their hand, but you learn to walk with it, right? i want people to know that they don't have to walk with it alone. Yeah.
00:23:20
Speaker
Yeah. I think it's so poignant what you're saying about like that society is so quick to rush us. And I think because we've internalized that message, like we're so quick to rush ourselves as
Societal Pressures and Grief
00:23:34
Speaker
well. yeah i mean, she to your point of your experience, it's like, where's the checklist of things that I need to go through in order to get through this, get over this, get past this so that I can get on with my life.
00:23:46
Speaker
And it's like, then on top of feeling the grief, we're also feeling embarrassment or shame or guilt or something because we're like, it's taking too long. I should be able to move through this faster.
00:24:02
Speaker
Right. I think especially for high achievers, whenever we know we're so used to checking off the list and setting our sights on something and, you know, setting a goal and attaining it, whenever we get to that like sticky, mucky place of grief where it's dark and we're wandering around and it's like on top of the grief itself, we're also judging ourselves for not moving through it as fast as we want to or as efficiently or as well as this other person over here. do you see that a lot?
00:24:34
Speaker
Yes. Yeah. I've had several people say like, is anybody else taking this as hard as I am? Like, is it, is it this hard for everyone or is it just me? Am I like losing my mind here? What's going on? And, and I always reassure them that no, you are not alone in this. Like this happens to the best of us out of nowhere in the grocery store or at a family outing whatever.
00:24:56
Speaker
in the park, when you see somebody else that's pregnant or somebody announces their news, it just kind of hits you and you fall apart and you're like, I can't do it. and there's this great book called bearing the unbearable that talks about the waves of grief. And, and so for so long, we fight against those waves. Right. And we try to push them back and we can't really push them back. But when we learn how to ride with them, that's when the real true healing and in processing begins.
00:25:21
Speaker
That's one that I always recommend. And there's this other side of grief too that we don't we also don't talk about. And we're in this center, we're tug of war, where we're like, I want to move on But then moving on so quickly makes it so final, so final. And and somebody else had said to me, like, there will come a day when I'm the only one that remembers.
00:25:41
Speaker
There will come a day when I'm the only one that remembers my baby because people move on so quickly and they forget. And we were talked about how do you find peace in that moment?
00:25:53
Speaker
I have to be okay with the fact that I will be the only one that will remember. And so we're holding on. It's like we're almost holding on to grief in that way. Like if I move on too quickly, does that make me feel ah does that make this less than? and Like it's so complex that it's such a tug of war, but not just linear. It's like all directions of this tangled web where it pulls at one thing and it gets to another.
00:26:19
Speaker
Yeah, and I think we're always searching for like, what is the right thing? What is the right amount? What is the right amount of time to grieve? What is the right way to do it? Right? What are the right steps to take?
00:26:30
Speaker
My first question to you is like, what are the right things we should do to process grief? Right? Like our brains are so trained to look for that, like, because we want to be efficient. but Give me the five steps.
00:26:41
Speaker
but Yeah, exactly. don't have time for all this. Like we've got kids and we've got jobs and we've got so many things to do. And it's like, if I could just find the right thing, that's so much faster.
00:26:53
Speaker
But it's gotta be the right thing for you because it's what helps you is not something that's going to help me. You know, o we, we process difficult things differently.
00:27:06
Speaker
I think, too, I mean, the parenting, it's like, what's the right way to parent? The answer that it's we didn't all come with like manuals of how to handle, you know, like, hey, Cammie, here's your personalized...
00:27:23
Speaker
Script. Here's your handbook. ah Right? Of how you are going to best deal with grief and how you are going to best parent and how you are going to best work it. Right? All the things. Like we're always looking for that yeah right thing. And I think that it's so fascinating because as humans, like we can certainly study best practices and not reinvent the wheel in some places. And also yeah we're all unique. We have to find our ways of doing it. And I think to your point,
00:27:53
Speaker
we have to believe our experience. Yeah. Right. Like we have to understand that it's, it's valid. And this is one of the things that I talked about in the taking care of yourself series of just like, Hey, if you have a need that is valid, we don't need to like look around and say like, does she have this need too? Maybe I'm too needy. I don't know. It's just like, this is your experience and it's okay to have this experience.
Navigating Grief Unapologetically
00:28:20
Speaker
And I think similarly in grief, if you're having, you know, whatever you need in that, it is valid.
00:28:26
Speaker
One of the things I talk to people about from the very beginning, whether that is when they just first find out that there's not a heartbeat or they just got the news, like whatever timeframe that may be wish for them, my goal for them is that they will go through this experience unapologetically.
00:28:44
Speaker
Meaning that they will go through and stand up, advocate for themselves, which is hard to do when you're in such a delicate place, but advocate for for yourself and what you need.
00:28:55
Speaker
You need additional time off. Let's figure it out. You want to experience holding your baby after stillbirth. Make that happen. You want footprints and handprints. Make that happen.
00:29:07
Speaker
And there are great resources out there to make that happen. You want to hold a memorial. You want to have a burial. You want to have a cremate. Whatever it is that brings peace in your heart to experience this in a way that you won't look back and say, I wish I would have.
00:29:23
Speaker
yeah Let's do that. And then we, of course, load them up with all the things to be sure to ask and and ah making sure that they know what their options are and what's possible because we don't know what we don't know either.
00:29:35
Speaker
Yeah, but I do think to your point earlier of like that we want to rush people through things because of our societal discomfort with it. I also think we do this thing in our society where it's like, well, she had a loss and needed X number of days or weeks off and this other person had a loss and she needs...
00:29:59
Speaker
double that time? Like, is she not as strong as that other person? Right. And there's kind of like this, like, or this other one came back in like two days because she wanted to. Right. Yes.
00:30:10
Speaker
So then it's almost like we put people on like a hierarchical, like this one is better than or stronger than, or can handle more or whatever. Right. And I think yeah also as high achievers, like we value being able to like, quote unquote, handle it Yeah, that's a superpower, right? Like we think it is. It's really like just laying us down and we're exhausted, but we like to see it as a superpower.
00:30:34
Speaker
I can do it all. But yeah, that that comparison comes in often in our conversations too, where we feel like my grief isn't as valid as this person over here, or just just the comparison of, you know, who's grieving more, who has the right to grieve more.
00:30:49
Speaker
And the reality is, is that there's no need for comparison. They are coexisting indifferent. I had this heartbreaking loss at five weeks and I had this heartbreaking loss at 28 weeks or I lost my son at three months old.
00:31:04
Speaker
It's all unimaginable heartbreak. Even with one person that who had two different types of losses, those two experiences are very different. They change who we are as a person.
00:31:15
Speaker
and Oftentimes what happened is a traumatic event in some way, shape, or form. And we cannot put a comparison or allow ourselves to compare with one another. what we need to do is bring another chair to the table and extend grace for both of those people because they are doing the very best they can.
00:31:34
Speaker
And there's no easy like, hey, just don't do it. Like don't compare. But I think the solution to it is compassion at all levels. Take away the judgment of what you think they should be doing and just lean in and listen but understand not to
Redefining Strength in Grief
00:31:51
Speaker
respond.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah. You mentioned you started Renee Brown's new book, one of my favorites as well. I haven't started the new book yet. And she talked about strength and what does it mean to be strong? And I think in Grief...
00:32:06
Speaker
You know, when we're walking with grief, we we think like, well, I'm strong if I can get through this fast, if I can keep going with all my other responsibilities while I'm doing right? Like whatever kind of requirements we put in our head about what it means to be strong in this moment.
00:32:25
Speaker
And I'm curious your thoughts on what does it mean to be strong? I first want to say we have so many people telling us that we're so strong, right? Like you're so strong. I don't know how you're doing it or, you know, whatever it is. There's always like, oh I just, you're just so unbelievably strong.
00:32:42
Speaker
And usually it's like, I don't think I am. I'm here because I don't have another choice, right? I'm here going through the motions and that's about the best that I can do. I don't see that as strong, but you see that as strong. Okay.
00:32:54
Speaker
But I've had people say that I'm tired of people telling me I'm strong. I don't feel strong. I feel like I'm falling apart. But I did have the discussion not long ago with someone who was like, I'm trying to be strong. I don't know what kind of strong I need to be right now.
00:33:06
Speaker
I don't know what that looks like. And I was listening to Brene Brown's book this morning. Lots of props to her today. And she was talking about forced ability. And it took me back to a conversation that I had with another mom who, when she came in,
00:33:22
Speaker
ah Through one of our conversations, I said, what are you looking for? What do you want? She said, I want to be well and sturdy for myself and for whatever comes next.
00:33:33
Speaker
And she took charge of nourishing herself and really building back her strength, both mentally and physically. And like, that was her goal.
00:33:44
Speaker
But I always think of her when she said, like, when I think of somebody like saying that they want to be well and sturdy or that they want to be strong, or I think of your feet firmly planted with your, you know, that, that super woman pose with your arms on your, your hands on your hips and your shoulders back and your head high.
00:33:59
Speaker
And like, I can do this. And the biggest part of that is your feet being firmly planted and grounded. and your core being strong, holding you up. And i think about that too, when the waves of grief come crashing in and the heartbreak and the tears and that that moment where you feel like everything's falling apart, it's where are your feet?
00:34:21
Speaker
Where is your core? How do you strengthen those feelings muscles to be able to withstand the storm, to take whatever's coming at you. And I think it's really getting to know yourself in the process, being able to say, i can do this, but I'm not willing to do that, to set some of those those boundaries and having the difficult conversations.
00:34:46
Speaker
That is where I feel like the strength through all of this is. It's not putting on the face and pretending to be okay all the time. Like that, that is a skill.
00:34:57
Speaker
It's a well-honed skill that many of us have. yeah We are so good at it. We are so good at it. But even with that, like that's a skill and going back and taking the time you need to recuperate from that.
00:35:09
Speaker
I think those are all signs of strength. You may not be ready to stand in that pose with your head held high just yet. but you know how to nourish yourself to get there. And what our job is as companion support is to sort of hold up that mirror and say, all right, who are you?
Long-term Impact of Unresolved Grief
00:35:25
Speaker
And who have you become through all of this? Because you're changed forever. This is part of your story. I'm finding women that are still processing grief from 20 years ago.
00:35:37
Speaker
The loss of a loved one in their family from their grandmother or that that their mom experienced that They didn't have room to grieve, to process. They were told to move on.
00:35:49
Speaker
And we're still working through those things. Yeah. I think it's so fascinating to notice these things and then just see like how our society has come to be and is ah set up, right? Like that this is what we do.
00:36:03
Speaker
Expect others and ourselves to just move forward as fast as possible. The faster, the better. That's what strong used to be, right? Let's go. Get back up, dust off, fix your face. Let's go.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah. And I just, as you're talking about like, you know, people processing grief from 20 years ago, I'm just thinking like, this is not something that we learn in school. What a gift to give to our children. But like, when we learn this,
00:36:29
Speaker
was just thinking about the other day, honestly, compassionate communication should be part of core curriculum, should be in there. How do you talk with people with compassion and care and see them as people? Like, let's bring that back to humanity.
00:36:48
Speaker
Maybe that's let the light in. Future. Let's educate the future so that we can take care of ourselves and our friends and loved the ones.
00:37:00
Speaker
The give and the take of relationships and just seeing people for who they are and what they're going through and also being able to be on that receiving end. Oh, that's a whole other topic. But, but yeah, I don't know that that compassionate communication course is in our future per se, but I am happy to help fuel that process. If anybody wants to to jump in, I'm here.
00:37:23
Speaker
i'll Go back to my communication studies roots and and bring that about. Yeah. I love that. Well, Cammie, is there anything that I haven't asked you about that you're feeling really compelled to talk about?
Compassionate Support for Others
00:37:35
Speaker
I think the biggest thing I want to make sure that people know and take away is just be be gentle with those around you. There's so much going on in the world and there's so much going on behind closed doors. You have no idea.
00:37:49
Speaker
And so if you see someone that looks like they're struggling, probably because they're struggling and could use either a listening ear or some, that kind, compassionate communication of how are you and be ready to listen.
00:38:04
Speaker
And like I said earlier, be ready to listen without response, but to understand, without trying to fix, but to understand and say, i i see you. i think that's the biggest gift we can give anyone.
00:38:16
Speaker
And also, if you do know of somebody that is going through loss navigating even infertility, pregnancy, and infant loss, all of those and journeys that are we're all told that are supposed to come so easy to us and they're not, just be Find your way of being there for them.
00:38:33
Speaker
Extend a hand, notice when the day is hard and just try to be a little more gentle. Yeah, I love that. i think the first thing you said about like, if you see someone who looks like they're struggling and my ah immediate thought was like, or if you see someone who doesn't look like they're struggling at all because they're working so hard so mask it.
00:38:52
Speaker
Yeah. I reached out to someone yesterday because I took a lot of pictures of our our candles, our our wave of light. And I sent a picture of the candle that we lit on their behalf. And um she was telling me about how she busied herself all day. It's like, I just needed to not fall apart today. And so I i packed my schedule full and and thank you for this moment. and And to that person, I want to say, give yourself grace.
00:39:15
Speaker
It's okay to pack your schedule once in a while and make the day busy, but also make time for the quiet. And it might be uncomfortable. It will be. And you'll feel things that you don't want to be feeling. But if you get to know those feelings, you will truly find comfort within yourself.
Resources and Conclusion
00:39:31
Speaker
Well, Cammie, where can people find you? Find, let the light in if they, you know, need to reach out for support and how would they do that? Step one is our website. Everything there leads you back to connecting with me, leads you to our social media pages,
00:39:46
Speaker
and our companion support resources. and We also have a new document that i created a few months ago called How to Support Brieved Parents. And we didn't even get into that, but it's sort of your mini guidebook as to how to support a loved one going through this loss.
00:40:04
Speaker
And the first step of that is understanding their grief, understanding where they're coming from, and then finding the tangible acts of kindness that you can sort of extend to them. So all of that and more, all of our events, everything is on our website. And that is at ltli.org. So let the light in, but ltli.org.
00:40:24
Speaker
And then our social media pages are there too. We're on Facebook and Instagram. I keep being told I'm supposed to be on TikTok. So we'll see. but We'll get there one step at a time. Yeah.
00:40:37
Speaker
I love it. And I love that you created that guide because I remember in our first episode, we talked about how to support a coworker or, you know, someone who maybe is on your team. So if anyone is experiencing that, I would recommend going back to Cammie's first episode from two years ago, October of 2023, because we we talked about that. and And then of course, now you have the guide, which is amazing. Yeah, I need to create one that is for that how to support a coworker. I just wrote that down. of I need to put that one together too So yeah, thanks for that.
00:41:08
Speaker
Yeah. Well, thank you so much for being here. i love this conversation. i just appreciate you. I appreciate the work you're doing in the world. And i appreciate you coming here to share it with us on the podcast. Thank you so much.
00:41:20
Speaker
Thank you. All right. Well, thank you everyone so much for tuning in and we'll see you all next week. Bye-bye. If you're loving what you're learning on this podcast, I want to invite you to come join me for the Executive Mom Reset.
00:41:33
Speaker
We offer both one-on-one and group coaching formats, and our next group is starting in October 2025. I created the Executive Mom Reset to help high-achieving moms feel less anxious, more confident, and more in control of their lives.
00:41:47
Speaker
Instead of feeling like you're being pulled in a hundred different directions, you'll learn how to pause, reset, and approach challenges with clarity and confidence. You'll stop running on autopilot, stop second guessing yourself all the time, and stop letting stress, guilt, and overwhelm dictate your day.
00:42:05
Speaker
You'll walk away with the tools and the confidence that you can use every day to feel stronger, more empowered, and more in alignment with the life you want to be living. Head on over to coachleana.com to learn more and to get signed up.
00:42:19
Speaker
I really hope to see you there.